Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

It depends on people's priorities, I guess? If we're trying to speedrun though, I'd want to go for 3 Sacrament actions and converting 5 follower AP to 2 Velvet AP to leave room for FR and the inevitable family and Cadance FOs.

We could technically convert 9F to 3V instead to squeeze in one more Velvet action, but at that point we're eating a bunch of Name and/or Selene AP, which are very valuable actually.

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Alternatively, we could drop one of those FOs, and trust that perhaps the Alicorn can recover on her own. Cadance is a pretty well-adjusted mare, all things considered. This one rough patch won't undo her. She isn't a child like Silky is, nor as supremely traumatized as Selene has been in her life.

Meanwhile putting off Name Friending and a Sacrament again is just pure pain, and we know that the process that yanks DoA back into the Mansus is pretty damn traumatic for her. So can we just head that suffering off ahead of time instead of putting a little balm on a healing discomfort?

 

[Pittauro]

I honestly forgot we could teach as a free social, I guess that solves the AP cost issue with Selene's training.

That speedrun will prove if Velvet's luck went away for good or if it will return.

That basically locks Axe's action as a lesson though, nothing wrong with it I just don't like using Name actions for teaching, feels like a waste. How many actions are we willing to invest again? Because if we are really desperate we can trade some(or all)Follower actions for Velvet actions.

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I forgot that too. I was kinda fixated on the idea of using that action to teach Rarity, I didn't consider we could use it to teach Selene.

as for "wasting" Name actions on lessons... honestly a lesson from them is still very valuable, but ideally only after we get a Sacrament or to reach the next threshold.

After all, a lvl 5 book is 120 bits. so it could be argued a Name Lesson once we're lvl 5 is worth 120 bits (though we don't get a Manuscript out of it), and in theory 6 turns of those lessons would get us to lvl 6, the same tier of power Names use in the Wake (not counting their general bonuses and traits, admittedly).

and another 7 such actions and we could, if we wanted to, reach lvl 7, the (presumed) limit of mortal understanding of a Principle.

of course using a Name only for lessons for the 13 turns required to go from beginning of lvl 5 to lvl 7 is likely something we just won't be able to afford, even if the game continued beyond Tricuspid... though hey, who knows. Maybe we'll get lucky with expeditions and we'll want to use those lessons to get the last few scraps at key points.

Maybe All-7 dream is not dead yet...

It depends on people's priorities, I guess? If we're trying to speedrun though, I'd want to go for 3 Sacrament actions and converting 5 follower AP to 2 Velvet AP to leave room for FR and the inevitable family and Cadance FOs.

We could technically convert 9F to 3V instead to squeeze in one more Velvet action, but at that point we're eating a bunch of Name and/or Selene AP, which are very valuable actually.

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More than 2 extra actions from "cover your bases" is unrealistic, yeah. It costs too much for what we can gain.

side note, Let's say we finish Axe's sacrament in less than 3 actions. What would we have Velvet do in its place?

We could have her try the SH Sacrament, assuming she still has an SH Reroll. We could of course also just go for the near inevitable fleeting opportunities, or mansus exploration...

 

[Greymere]

side note, Let's say we finish Axe's sacrament in less than 3 actions. What would we have Velvet do in its place?

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Study our artifacts?

 

[DelightedOne]

Alternatively, we could drop one of those FOs, and trust that perhaps the Alicorn can recover on her own. Cadance is a pretty well-adjusted mare, all things considered. This one rough patch won't undo her.

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...

Have we been reading the same Cadance? Because she is not well-adjusted at all, she just pretends she is because she is a Princess.

She had 3 breakdowns that I remember: When we told her about Twilight's kidnapping, when she thought Velvet lost her "baby" and we showed her the scar as proof she was wrong and of course the most recent, the nightmare induced one.

Cadance only has 2 ponies in her life, Velvet Covers and Shining Armor, she lost all of her other family, Celestia is too busy fighting Daybreaker to be supportive and she has a self esteem so low she could reach Nowhere. It would help a lot if we used 1 action on her next turn and the situation might get worse if we don't.

I also want to check out that whole second Love's Chosen thing, it would make sense for the bond to grow stronger through these types of actions.

 

[spiderhellian]

Next turn might force us to take up an eldritch power we've long sworn ourselves away from…

Conditional plans

(Really though, having no idea what the Knock sacrament entails or how hard it'll be makes planning kind of a crapshoot…)

 

[Pittauro]

Study our artifacts?

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if we can't fit it normally then sure.

...

Have we been reading the same Cadance? Because she is not well-adjusted at all, she just pretends she is because she is a Princess.

She had 3 breakdowns that I remember: When we told her about Twilight's kidnapping, when she thought Velvet lost her "baby" and we showed her the scar as proof she was wrong and of course the most recent, the nightmare induced one.

Cadance only has 2 ponies in her life, Velvet Covers and Shining Armor, she lost all of her other family, Celestia is too busy fighting Daybreaker to be supportive and she has a self esteem so low she could reach Nowhere. It would help a lot if we used 1 action on her next turn and the situation might get worse if we don't.

I also want to check out that whole second Love's Chosen thing, it would make sense for the bond to grow stronger through these types of actions.

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there's also the first time we met her, when she wasn't QUITE having a breakdown BUT was feeling the weight of her burdens quite a bit and we left her those wonderful words to remember us by.

Truly, a masterful write-in. The guy who wrote it is obviously very clever and smart and perfect in every way


That said, yeah, right now Cadance has two people she truly cares about that are still there (Shining and Velvet), one Luna might give her hope she can get back eventually (Celestia and if she's extremely lucky Twilight), and then at best a few POTENTIAL loved ones in the future (Luna, our daughters maybe..)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

...

Have we been reading the same Cadance? Because she is not well-adjusted at all, she just pretends she is because she is a Princess.

She had 3 breakdowns that I remember: When we told her about Twilight's kidnapping, when she thought Velvet lost her "baby" and we showed her the scar as proof she was wrong and of course the most recent, the nightmare induced one.

Cadance only has 2 ponies in her life, Velvet Covers and Shining Armor, she lost all of her other family, Celestia is too busy fighting Daybreaker to be supportive and she has a self esteem so low she could reach Nowhere. It would help a lot if we used 1 action on her next turn and the situation might get worse if we don't.

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Yeah, all things considered it's normal to have an emotional collapse when you learn of your loved ones being kidnapped, going through a miscarriage, or almost being assassinated. The fact she is still able to run a nation despite those hits rather than shutting down completely when such news hits shows that she is more resilient than most when it comes to these things. And we've been shoring her up each time she's faltered, and got her an amazing wedding so wonderful it touches other Histories. I think we can let one hardship slide without providing comfort in order to save someone else from greater tragedy.

 

[Greymere]

Next turn might force us to take up an eldritch power we've long sworn ourselves away from…

Conditional plans

(Really though, having no idea what the Knock sacrament entails or how hard it'll be makes planning kind of a crapshoot…)

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Or we can just trust that Bird will go the way of similar "but what if we finish early" actions and assume he'll open a new vote to decide what to do with the remaining AP if it ever becomes relevant

 

[Pittauro]

Next turn might force us to take up an eldritch power we've long sworn ourselves away from next turn…

Conditional plans

(Really though, having no idea what the Knock sacrament entails or how hard it'll be makes planning kind of a crapshoot…)

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eh, we can guess. The average seems to me to be 3 actions for most sacraments, with a few rare ones being cheaper but requiring other resources.

So I'd expect Axe's Sacrament to require 2 actions minimum maybe 3, assuming we don't roll atrociously bad.

SH Influence, which we'll likely try to keep up considering the errand is supposedly about finding the Frangiclave, will hopefully help.

 

[Void_510]

except Mareinette.

That said, even with her I don't think we need to worry too much? We can probably buy some time with Velvet personal actions (I imagine the cost will go up to 2 actions next time?), with artifacts (lvl 2 the first time, probably lvl 3 or 4 the second time?)... We can probably renew the bindings for another 6, maybe even 9 turns depending on escalation. After that... we'll see. Worst case we'll have to pick one of the morally worse options, but that's probably 12 turns away, that's only likely to be relevant IF the game continues after Glory, as I can't imagine us taking THAT long to go through the Tricuspid.

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This assumes that the AP cost remains on the table. If the option we pick goes away and all the remaining options become more expensive I think we will quickly approach that line we are not currently willing to cross in 6 turns.

 

[Greymere]

This assumes that the AP cost remains on the table. If the option we pick goes away and all the remaining options become more expensive I think we will quickly approach that line we are not currently willing to cross in 6 turns.

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It only said that they increase in cost, not that our options, so I kind of doubt it. 2 AP isn't exactly cheap, and at the third rebinding (which is iirc where Bird said we might balk) that could be 3 whole AP, which would make Mareinette AP-neutral to keep around rather than AP-positive. And that's assuming the cost is +1 per rebinding and not like, a flat doubling each time.

Though on that note, I wonder if Mareinette's Heart Sacrament would count as an acceptable offering the same way her Grail Sacrament does? It just might (might!) be more palatable than her Grail one after all

 

[Pittauro]

This assumes that the AP cost remains on the table. If the option we pick goes away and all the remaining options become more expensive I think we will quickly approach that line we are not currently willing to cross in 6 turns.

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True. I expect the cost will stay, though, if at higher price.

Mareinette should still be interested in having more of our time, even if we spent some on her already. And I imagine she'll want more and better artifacts once we give her a weaker one to start with.

Still, we'll find out in 3 turns. At the very least we can afford the next cost, We just need to give her the Knock 2 artifact (after studying it).

 

[Greymere]

Still, we'll find out in 3 turns. At the very least we can afford the next cost, We just need to give her the Knock 2 artifact (after studying it).

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I'm assuming that all options increase in cost, regardless of which we picked, tbh. So Mareinette will probably want a Level 3 artifact next time (or possibly even Level 4).

 

[Shaper47]

For Cadance how about a write-in where we invite her and Selene to witness Velvet doing her Forge's Redemption ritual.

All in all our Names are fairly sustainable, yeah.

except Mareinette

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Just befriend her.

The QM has mentioned how great befriending is to our unique summons multiple times.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Just befriend her.

The QM has mentioned how great befriending is to our unique summons multiple times.

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That culminates with eating Silky. Kind of a hard sell.

 

[Bakkasama]

I don't think that trying to speedrun a sácrament is a good idea. I think we should accept that we will likely have to summon Axe again in a few turns.

 

[Shaper47]

That culminates with eating Silky. Kind of a hard sell.

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Not really?

Like, I don't remember anything saying eating Silky is a requirement for befriending her. It fact it would make it impossible to befriended her so it can't be.

I'm pretty sure the befriending requirement is the same as Velvet Axes.

-"Tie the knot. Make a friend."
-This option will always be available, and will never increase in price.

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[Talon Tiger Dino]

Not really?

Like, I don't remember anything saying eating Silky is a requirement for befriending her. It fact it would make it impossible to befriended her so it can't be.

I'm pretty sure the befriending requirement is the same as Velvet Axes.

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Ah, my apologies. Eating Silky is not a requirement for Friendship, it's just Mareinette's ultimate goal for us.

 

[Shaper47]

Ah, my apologies. Eating Silky is not a requirement for Friendship, it's just Mareinette's ultimate goal for us.

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Well its what Mareinette (and DoA) thinks is going to happen at any rate.

I wonder why? (Suddenly remembers also those talks by others (not me) in the thread taking about how they hate Velvet's children and want Velvet to kill them)

It's a total mystery.

On a totally unrelated note did you know that Alukah apparently can shape-shift into the form of a wolf.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

On a totally unrelated note did you know that Alukah apparently can shape-shift into the form of a wolf.

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Who's Alukah?

 

[Shaper47]

Who's Alukah?

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"Alukah" is the word for "horse-leech".

A blood drinking monster that is never satisfied that can curse wombs dry or make sure they have a promising seed.

It's the real life equivalent of Alukite. Just like how they included the Long Martyr of Nazarene and that battle with Alexander at Issus.

 

[Pittauro]

I'm assuming that all options increase in cost, regardless of which we picked, tbh. So Mareinette will probably want a Level 3 artifact next time (or possibly even Level 4).

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possible, I suppose. We'll see.

For Cadance how about a write-in where we invite her and Selene to witness Velvet doing her Forge's Redemption ritual.

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The Glory is Dark and the Forge cold today, because for once I actually like your suggestion

the one problem is that... I'm not sure we'd be able to convince her to WAIT to heal Shining if we show we can do it now.

Maybe we should wait until Selene has a plan to deal with Daybreaker?

I don't think that trying to speedrun a sácrament is a good idea. I think we should accept that we will likely have to summon Axe again in a few turns.

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meh, disagree. the thing about Sacraments is that they seem to benefit from Influences, so investing multiple actions in them while we have an influence up is often efficient.

 

[DelightedOne]

the one problem is that... I'm not sure we'd be able to convince her to WAIT to heal Shining if we show we can do it now.

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We could just say we want to test it first since we have never done this ritual before? That could work.

 

[Pittauro]

We could just say we want to test it first since we have never done this ritual before? That could work.

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for one turn, maybe.

the problem is, Velvet's scar was mostly hidden. It was not OBVIOUS.

Shining's BROKEN HORN is.

Admittedly he's using a realistic fake horn... but if we give him back his normal horn, will he be able to hold back from instinctively use telekinesis? What if he's attacked and uses his shields?

We need an excuse for how he was healed. MAYBE if we could at least fake a love-fueled healing spell or something...

 

[DelightedOne]

for one turn, maybe.

the problem is, Velvet's scar was mostly hidden. It was not OBVIOUS.

Shining's BROKEN HORN is.

Admittedly he's using a realistic fake horn... but if we give him back his normal horn, will he be able to hold back from instinctively use telekinesis? What if he's attacked and uses his shields?

We need an excuse for how he was healed. MAYBE if we could at least fake a love-fueled healing spell or something...

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Yeah, that makes sense. But she trusts us and if we tell her why we can't let the lores come out fully just yet(Daybreaker) she might follow the plan and wait to heal Shining until Celestia is better.

We are going to heal the scar anyway so it's either trusting Cadance to keep quiet for now and keep the secret or just not telling her about the ritual, which might complicate things since she knows about the scar.

 

[Shaper47]

The Glory is Dark and the Forge cold today, because for once I actually like your suggestion

the one problem is that... I'm not sure we'd be able to convince her to WAIT to heal Shining if we show we can do it now.

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We do have her trust and Selene is there to remind her of the Solar Death Beams.

But the knowledge that Shinning will be healed in time. That's going to be a really big gift to her.

Maybe we should wait until Selene has a plan to deal with Daybreaker?

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Well technically we really only need to wait till we've grabbed the lore knowledge for the Bureau and had a reasonable time to study it.

 

[Greymere]

Yeah, that makes sense. But she trusts us and if we tell her why we can't let the lores come out fully just yet(Daybreaker) she might follow the plan and wait to heal Shining until Celestia is better.

We are going to heal the scar anyway so it's either trusting Cadance to keep quiet for now and keep the secret or just not telling her about the ritual, which might complicate things since she knows about the scar.

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Either way, I don't think we're going to have to wait until Daybreaker is dealt with to heal Shining. It's not like he's the one who meets with her in person, and if the Bureau is in on the whole "Lores" thing (and maybe even eventually Selene's whole deal) then it's not like they're going to be wondering how he got his horn back, as long as we can reasonably justify it. And by justify it, I mean go find a Forge artifact so that Cadance could, theoretically (or actually, idc) have done it on her own by virtue of virtual Lore levels and Being An Alicorn.

Also, I just realized that we're probably also going to have a FO to initiate Shining and Cadance into the Lores next turn, since Bird hasn't mentioned anything about that tripping any Bad End triggers and the only reason we can't follow up on anything this turn is because we're technically dead. So maybe throw that on to to the pile of "potential things we'll want to do next turn".

Edit:

meh, disagree. the thing about Sacraments is that they seem to benefit from Influences, so investing multiple actions in them while we have an influence up is often efficient.

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Which would be great if we knew what Lore Influence we'll need for DoA's errand beyond "not Knock" but we uh. Don't. So y'know.

 

[Shaper47]

Which would be great if we knew what Lore Influence we'll need for DoA's errand beyond "not Knock" but we uh. Don't. So y'know.

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Hmm, not sure on the "not knock" bit. She mentioned having Knock in our hooves would be important to surviving.

I don't think we plan on doing anything else that would use an attention of the Lores so we might as well do a Knock AotL on our first Knock Sacrament action.

 

[Gyldir]

well, she did not tell you who had hurt you

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This should probably be "who had hurt her".

 

[spiderhellian]

As a reminder, the little bit we got from Bird was

She is, predictably, quite dodgy about the errand she wants you to run. But it doesn't look like a knock influence would help much.

But then again, there is always a chance one of the Lores could be helpful?

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Not much but something, lol.

Which would be great if we knew what Lore Influence we'll need for DoA's errand beyond "not Knock" but we uh. Don't. So y'know.

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I do suspect SH! (At minimum feels like it might be relevant for finding the Frangiclave.)

Damn, next turn is busy…

And all the prioritization fights we were saved from having by dying are only growing more intense for the delay