Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I am sorry, Copper. But maybe if you wanted to live, you shouldn't have turned into a cannibalistic murderer picking fights with the Mare with Multiple Names, you daft loon!

I am also quite glad that we did in fact minimize non-Cult casualties. I didn't realize precise vaporization through explosion was in the Moon's wheelhouse, but here we are.

Also darn, stupid Vault. Not a lot we could have done about it though, didn't have any Forge Artifacts and we didn't have the money to send Rarity on both Expeditions this turn. Such is life, we expected we would need a follow-up anyways.

Oh ho
Maximum Loooooot
Most excellent, God I hope this includes Bits. I am so excited to see that haul!

Overall 2/3 objectives with a very hard DC to link anything back to us ain't bad.

Also Jade coming in clutch as hell with that scry, she truly is great. Crushed so many hurdles for us without ever setting a hoof on the premises. Magnifique, as Rarity would probably say.

 

[spiderhellian]

I know there's a lot to react to and evidence to discuss. But I want to flag that Biedde scene at the start — What on earth is going on here?

He is dangerous because, despite all this, you don't know what he is hiding. You don't know why he is doing any of this.

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"You aren't even trying to hide it," you say out loud, towards the darkness of the train cabin.

You say it, because you are sure of it. He is lying. You know he is lying. And he knows that you know he is lying.

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"It is the thing that you don't know that kills you," he says.

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He's hiding something. And he wants us to know he's hiding something!

i can't even begin to guess what that is. Very confused.

But I'm suddenly even less comfortable extending his contract by letting him pursue his religious goals.

 

[Ghost in a Wall]

I wonder... could we use this as a way to introduce the threat of the Worms? Some low level lore, with mentions of a "Threat from outside reality, hungering for all that is"

 

[Shaper47]

Send a follow-up next turn? It's not exactly going anywhere.

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Do we need to?

It's in a locked safe in a collapsed building.

Just have our Uncle take care of it after our investigators leave.

Magnifique, as Rarity would probably say.

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Hmm, isn't that more something Fluttershy would say?

 

[jelloloaf]

Which yes, is technically a betrayal, but in our defense we didn't actually intend it as one!

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We're so good at cooperation, an activity which famously involves just one person.

I am sorry, Copper. But maybe if you wanted to live, you shouldn't have turned into a cannibalistic murderer picking fights with the Mare with Multiple Names, you daft loon!

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Getting mad at a Grail mare for practicing cannibalism smh my head.

 

[Shaper47]

I wonder... could we use this as a way to introduce the threat of the Worms? Some low level lore, with mentions of a "Threat from outside reality, hungering for all that is"

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I've put it up as a question for OurLadyOfWires.

In the context of that Luna is alive.

Because if I were Celestia the minute Eclipse found dream entrance I'd try to find a way to look for my sister in the Dreamlands.

Having a warning saying this is a extreamly bad idea for anything not an Alicorn of Dreams, along with letting her know Luna is alive. Well it should stop her from getting Wormed.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Do we need to?

It's in a locked safe in a collapsed building.

Just have our Uncle take care of it after our investigators leave.



Hmm, isn't that more something Fluttershy would say?

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Depending on how thorough the Bureau is, yes.

I don't know, I thought Rarity would be the one throwing around random bits of French in an effort to sound fancy, not the shy forest pony.

Getting mad at a Grail mare for practicing cannibalism smh my head.

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I can and I will. Accursed Grail, don't they know prions are a thing? Maybe that's why the lot of its cultists go mad.

 

[Shaper47]

Depending on how thorough the Bureau is, yes.

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Given our skills (SH, Moth and Forge) we might just have the option to tamper with the evidence.

 

[Venerable Ro]

He's hiding something. And he wants us to know he's hiding something!

i can't even begin to guess what that is. Very confused.

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Perhaps after the whole Lionsmith incident The Colonel and his Names took on just one more scar where trust once existed. There was a time where The Colonel demonstrated unconditional trust in another when he suffered the one who would be The Mother of Ants to Wound and Scar him, this trust proved the foundation of his victory and ascension and therefore Loyalty might have been a part of his fundamental canon.

But then The Lionsmith. As betrayal and rebellion is a foundational part of who the Lionsmith is, likewise The Colonel is now the one who is betrayed and mutinied against. The Colonel is Scarred and cannot be wounded, The Colonel accepts no weakness, The Colonel is old and cunning, The Colonel will never make the same mistake twice.

 

[jelloloaf]

I can and I will. Accursed Grail, don't they know prions are a thing? Maybe that's why the lot of them go mad.

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Why eat the brain in the first place? There are many other parts of the body that taste much sweeter.

 

[Quaxotia]

"… and I can confirm the Winter creature, that we suspect is under our enemy's control, is not in this city."

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What is Neighnia doing out of town? Did she possibly leave Copper's service due to a failure to pay upkeep costs?

And the mare herself, the nearby walls, and all the top floors of that building are completely vaporized from the ensuing explosion.

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Ladies and gentleman, we got her.

Now to deal with those pesky loose ends. In any case Neighnia's binding is almost certainly gone now that Copper is dead. And as for the evidence, I'm not sure how much attention it would draw to go back to destroy it. We may just have to disavow any connection to "coincidentally" similar handwriting when confronted as it's hard to imagine planted evidence being able to hide this connection without being really convoluted and possibly making things worse.

Given our skills (SH, Moth and Forge) we might just have the option to tamper with the evidence.

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I thought one of our choices when establishing the bureau precluded directly tampering with evidence.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

What is Neighnia doing out of town? Did she possibly leave Copper's service due to a failure to pay upkeep costs?

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I personally think she was overseeing the location Copper planned to use to hide.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I am so excited for maximum loot guys, you cannot believe it. It's gonna be great!

I am a little disappointed that none of the Artifacts we brought proved to be needed though.

 

[spiderhellian]

That being said, I wonder where Neighnia is and what she's up to, if she's not in Manehattan? Preparing the new cult location? Expedition?

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I could see being sent as a cult lieutenant to start a new cult elsewhere. And now she's unbound.

Or maybe she really wanted to visit the Winter 5 pony who has the Winter heirloom (this is paranoia, yes).

The Colonel will never make the same mistake twice.

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It's a good pint but could I ask you to clarify what you're trying to say? Is it that you think this Biedde stuff reflects him being ever on guard for betrayal?

It does make me think: He is still in the Colonel's service. He cannot leave the Colonel's service. What is the Colonel's will?

 

[Venerable Ro]

It's a good pint but could I ask you to clarify what you're trying to say? Is it that you think this Biedde stuff reflects him being ever on guard for betrayal?

It does make me think: He is still in the Colonel's service. He cannot leave the Colonel's service. What is the Colonel's will?

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I think The Colonel views trust as a weakness, and worse yet as a willful, reckless error. We trust Biedde to keep us safe, and Biedde believes that is a fundamental, offence/sin/gaffe/mistake/heresy/delusion in that no-one and nothing should be trusted unreservedly. He'll do his job, of course, but he won't act against his Hour's creed. Therefore Biedde will not trust, and he won't suffer us to trust him either, not unconditionally.

Not "trust but verify", but perhaps "don't trust, and verify anyway"?

In a way it would cast his automatic guard action in a new light wouldn't it, The Colonel and his Names are always on guard now.

Edit: he may also severely disapprove of our prior abandonment of the Cult, but that was such a slow-motion disaster that it's hard to really pin the blame on any one pony.

 

[Shaper47]

I thought one of our choices when establishing the bureau precluded directly tampering with evidence

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With exceptions for Changelings and other special cases.

This could be a special case and she'd only really care if we start imprisoning ponies.

So it really depends on if we're going to be persecuting the cult or just blaming Copper as a bad egg.

Trial's little powerplay to let ponies escape justice only goes so far.

 

[Steady Gaze]

Spoiler: Copyedits for Turn 20 - Results, part 2

@OurLadyOfWires copyedits for Turn 20 part 2:

And thanks to its nature as a skyscraper-under-construction, it is not at all out of place in that part of the city, and everypony seems to take its presence as part of the scenario.

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You probably meant scenery (compare scenario vs. scenery).

You think you finally understand what your sister saw on her, and why she goes to so much effort to be friendly with the snakemare.

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in

Such as the art gallery they started funding, for some reason, as well as efforts to enter the maintenance building, mostly for the city itself.

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I'm not sure what this means. Maybe construction industry or maintenance industry?

The carper under his hoofs tear wide open, as his hindlegs simply kick him into a horizontal jump.

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carpet

So, for all that you know it exists and who has it, those are still unaccounted for.

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This sentence isn't well-formed, and I'm not sure what it's saying. Some potential interpretations:

So, for all you know, it might still exist and be unaccounted for.
So, all you know is that it might still exist and be unaccounted for.
So as for whether it exists and who has it, those are still unaccounted for.

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But more importantly, she tells you that the cult is scrambling right now. Tensions have been high for several weeks, following some "burning" incident that you didn't quite understand, given the strange words Mareinette used. And not long ago, right after their attack against your mother failed, Copper herself basically ordered the cult to go to ground. And for several days now they have been packing, moving, and erasing every trace of their existence that they can, in their efforts to vanish into the shadows.

Another month or two, you think, and Copper's cult would have completely disappeared. Together with the mare herself, no doubt. But thankfully, your retribution is coming so early that Mareinette's source didn't even know where they were going, or what their plans were after they vanished.

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A thought experiment: what if we simply did nothing about Copper from this turn on? Does this mean Copper gets out of our mane forever?

And that's the last thing; Velvet and the thread seems to shatter things, pick the favorite pieces from the former whole, and glue those pieces together with Velvet.

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-this description actually hits VERY hard.

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Copper Secateur, the mare who, in truth, helped you climb out of the rut that was your life several years ago, has been killed. She died, laughing, as she realized the depth of your betrayal to her.

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What could've been. Windy, you may be next, though I hope it's a milder epilogue like "Windy Flakes… rotted in a cell in the depths of the Lunar Bureau for the rest of his days." We don't have to worry about this for Copper since she's dead, but do we have an answer to when Windy tells the Lunar Bureau that he totally knows us?

You report to her that Baldomare located the manuscripts she talked about, but that they were locked inside a safe. The Name-mare could not crack the safe open before the chaos began, and you had no time to look for it after the building began to crumble. So, for all that you know it exists and who has it, those are still unaccounted for.

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Here's hoping it got completely blown to bits in the explosion! (Not sure how much Forge was involved in making that safe.)

Do we also want to drop something like 'we coerced / blackmailed Velvet Covers to help us', or would that be too overboard?

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It would certainly be a coup if we could defuse the doom clock with planted evidence, but it needs to be more fleshed-out. We have to have ready answers for all the questions that would arise. For example, the most natural question is… "You knew about Copper? Why didn't you tell us?" followed by "What's your version of events?"

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Or maybe she really wanted to visit the Winter 5 pony who has the Winter heirloom (this is paranoia, yes).

It's a good pint but could I ask you to clarify what you're trying to say? Is it that you think this Biedde stuff reflects him being ever on guard for betrayal?

It does make me think: He is still in the Colonel's service. He cannot leave the Colonel's service. What is the Colonel's will?

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Better Neighnia than the Wolf, honestly. I kind of hope she finds him now that she's free. Wolfshead for the Palest Painting should be easier to come by these days, at least.

I believe that the Colonel's will is to smack that punk-ass Lionsmith down in every way one can, I believe. To slay monsters, crush rebellions and maintain the current regime with all one's cunning. Even if that regime really, really needs changing. Or if the monsters weren't bothering anybody. Or if those rebels were peaceful. Colonel's not exactly a nice guy.

 

[Greymere]

A thought experiment: what if we simply did nothing about Copper from this turn on? Does this mean Copper gets out of our mane forever?

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More likely she just continues her vendetta from another city, this time with more firepower since we managed to repel the first attack.

 

[Roaming_Guardian]

For those complaining about the vault and loose ends, it isnt like they were the ONLY loose ends.

A ton of the lower level cultists got away, and it only takes one of them to slip the Bureau's net and find someone with Talent to start a whole new problem.


And Windy is still out there.

 

[Greymere]

For those complaining about the vault and loose ends, it isnt like they were the ONLY loose ends.

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The lower level cultists don't have the ability to incriminate us, and Windy (as far as we know) doesn't have a motive to incriminate us. Also we might be "dealing with" Windy in some way or another soonish considering his Wolf-obsession.

 

[Venerable Ro]

A ton of the lower level cultists got away, and it only takes one of them to slip the Bureau's net and find someone with Talent to start a whole new problem.

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That's not a problem, that's job security.

I believe that the Colonel's will is to smack that punk-ass Lionsmith down in every way one can, I believe. To slay monsters, crush rebellions and maintain the current regime with all one's cunning. Even if that regime really, really needs changing. Or if the monsters weren't bothering anybody. Or if those rebels were peaceful. Colonel's not exactly a nice guy.

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The simple truth of the matter is, Darius screwed things up on a metaphysical level for everyone when he incited The Lionsmith, however it was done. The Colonel's worst qualities exist in confrontation and opposition to The Lionsmith; heck the fundamental idea of unending conflict only exists because they're compelled by their natures to strive.

 

[Arrkhon]

So why are we trying to befriend Baldomare instead of Mareinette? So far I haven't seen any proof of her being untrustworthy, in fact I only have seen proof of being a great ally at the very least and a great friend at best, she's also rolling well unlike Baldomare
But in regards to evidence, rather than ultra vague texts that point Bureau into general direction of Lores couldn't we plant a in-depth primer of level 0 for everything that's masked as cult indoctrination methodology or the like? It would both be unlikely to be taken by Eclipse and push the investigation towards Lores significantly forward compared to the ultra vague ones, even if it would require deciphering by Bureau to realize that it's not all just bunch of fancy mysticism, deciphering we can help along with

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The simple truth of the matter is, Darius screwed things up on a metaphysical level for everyone when he incited The Lionsmith, however it was done. The Colonel's worst qualities exist in confrontation and opposition to The Lionsmith; heck the fundamental idea of unending conflict only exists because they're compelled by their natures to strive.

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Indeed he did. But such is the history of the world and the Mansus: an endless cavalcade of consequences and costs.

 

[Shaper47]

The simple truth of the matter is, Darius screwed things up on a metaphysical level for everyone when he incited The Lionsmith, however it was done

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Totally true, what about those poor occultists who want to make monsters and be tyrant God kings.

 

[Nevermort]

Goodbye Copper we hardly knew you.
She knew that Velvet will send someone after her and still send her Name away?
Also interesting that Copper started funding art gallery. Is it because of Name or she started to work with Windy again?

I think we will need to send someone next turn to destroy evidence. Time to teach Selene how to crack safes. Proper Mafia Princess education, you know. And send Rarity too with her Forge. Assuming that destroying evidence would be expedition instead of action.

As for planting false evidence I think idea to focus Eclipse on Forge instead of Lantern have some merit. Crystal Empire will reappear soon and our tank army would not manifest itself on its own



Plan Forgery with Forge
-[] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (FORGE: Level 2 )
-[] write in: misdirect investigation toward Changelings
-[] write in: try to stimulate pursuit of Forge over Lantern (for example spur an arms race with Changelings or mention even more dangerous threat )


Perhaps throw in few more Lores in? Or @OurLadyOfWires can we encrypt manuscripts on Lores to make Bureau waste more time on it , but leave it rewarding enough so they don't abandon whole process? And if we give Bureau more Lores to study would it detract them from Lantern study?

 

[Roaming_Guardian]

I must admit, Marinette has been putting in the fucking work. To the point I'm almost sus that QM is fudging her rolls... nah.


If befriending her means she stops eating children and the innocent, at least SAPIENT children, she can have all the metaphorical veal and lamb she likes, I'm willing to overlook a bit.

 

[Shaper47]

And send Rarity too with her Forge. Assuming that destroying evidence would be expedition instead of action.

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Rarity has pretty low forge and besides we need her focused on her career.

If we weren't going to be so busy I'd suggest upgrading her.

 

[Greymere]

I think we will need to send someone next turn to destroy evidence. Time to teach Selene how to crack safes. Proper Mafia Princess education, you know. And send Rarity too with her Forge. Assuming that destroying evidence would be expedition instead of action.

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If we're doing a separate follow-up, Selene on her own would probably be fine. Since I'd imagine she could just open the safe with Knock and then actually destroy the evidence later?

...actually I'm not sure Selene would have to roll for the safe itself, logically, since she has previously demonstrated to capable of both a) long-range teleportation (as Luna) and b) making a big fucking explosion (just now).

Edit:

I wonder... could we use this as a way to introduce the threat of the Worms? Some low level lore, with mentions of a "Threat from outside reality, hungering for all that is"

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Also yeah, if we're going to be planting any evidence, we should just leave something on the Worms (and their relation to the Mansus/dreams), because that means the Worms should officially become Our Problem. Which is a great reason to have access to Eclipse's research regarding the Lores and the Mansus, as well as providing a reason as to why we should be officially allowed to learn these things.

Edit 2:
@OurLadyOfWires, could you elaborate on what the Bureau being able to trace things back to our factions actually mean for us? I assume it wouldn't be immediately "Celestia finds out and sunplosion happens, game over", but. Would it e.g. undermine the Bureau's loyalty in us? AP tax in the form of having to smooth things over? Something that's only-barely-not-game-ending bad? Just trying to get an idea of what the actual risk for us here is. Also does the false information affect the ability to trace the planted evidence back to us, or just their ability to investigate the cult itself and the assault?

 

[Shaper47]

But still, you can't stop thinking that, if you are not very careful, the day might come when this chain tied to your leg will simply stop moving. And you will realize too late that you are now bound to him.

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I do not like this for implications as to his sacrament option.

Not with somepony bound to the Colonel.