Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Quaxotia]

Honestly the Edge Sacrament is a low priority. Velvet is rarely involved in combat and the only reason it was an issue last turn is because she has two wounds and we made the mistake of attempting the Ruined Church expedition and failed the first check. Doesn't mean we shouldn't get it, just that others like Knock and secret histories are a higher priority.

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If we seek the blood of an outsider I think we'll want every edge we can get. I suspect siccing Biedde on it won't be enough. Though I agree that it's too early to say how sacraments should be prioritized until at least next turn.

 

[Sveta08]

It all depends on how the rest of the turn plays out

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Mhmm....

And I don't know how to feel on that topic, by the by.
The expedition to the grave for the book hasn't cropped up, nor has the search for the outsider, nor info for Baldomare potentially post book level 6 or so.

Makes me curious what's waiting in the wings.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Eh, I'm in no rush for the Edge Sacrament. I'm sure some Worthy Opponent will rear their head in the time it takes us to get our Knock and SH Sacraments. Hopefully one closer to Shining's weight class than Comet's.

 

[Kai Merah]

[X] Equestria is changing. Evolving. Growing, even. Why not make Ponyville the poster foal of this change?

[X] There will always be more ponies. The earth pony city of Ponyville will be the beating heart that will keep Equestria moving.

 

[Reclai]

[X] There will always be more ponies. The earth pony city of Ponyville will be the beating heart that will keep Equestria moving.

 

[AuthorTransient]

[What vision will the denizens of Ponyville agree upon, for their future as a community?]

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I think I have enough Lore cognition to try and read this as Lore.

A city, ripe and plentiful
A beacon of learning and growth
A beating heart of a nation
A home for what all will be found
An industry in which the future is made

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I think I would actually argue that the reaping the bounties of diamonds and woods is also Grail, due to the word choice of 'drink' and 'lush' and 'cost the land itself dearly'. Though that might make a 'large city' as Knock instead, because one would be able to find all sorts of things there? But.

Sweeping aside all of that -- on second thought, I don't want to think about these options as Lore-poisoned. I want to consider it mundanely. And if I consider them mundanely, I can pick apart each choice.

I don't want Ponyville to grow into a large city because that wasn't what attracted us here.
-
I don't want Ponyville to focus on growing food, because that might stagnate it.
I don't want to pollute the environment.
Same as above.

So the choice I agree most with is:
[X] Equestria is changing. Evolving. Growing, even. Why not make Ponyville the poster foal of this change?

Change is coming.

 

[Greymere]

Aren't you both sorta right? Worms were attracted by Harmony, but seized Luna because she got cocky/reckless hunting them? Distal/proximal causes?


Yeah everyone, we have Follower's Phase is coming up, we should really get a head start on our bickering about that.

1) Take the 2 Velvet AP or go for 3? Which 4 Follower AP do we use, then?
2) Do we want a SH Influence from Baldomare for Knock sacrament/Frangiclave finding possibilities? Even if we don't have a SH Sacrament action?
3) What does Mareinette do? Or Biedde?

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1) Depends on how many/what Fleeting Opportunities there are and/or if we can teach Selene w/ our free social.

2) I'd rather have her do something else tbh. Either offering us her own Sacrament so we can just get the damn thing done already, or scouting BtRC3, or preemptively scrying for a Level 7 book for her friendship quest, or looking for a more permanent 3-circle site, etc.

3) Mareinette should be on socialling Spoiled Rich until she hits Close Friend/Confidant unless some other social emergency crops up. I don't have anything in particular in mind for Biedde, maybe finishing up the Outsider search if it doesn't complete this turn.

Edit: Hey, I just realized! If we successfully explore the Summit (i.e. the Malleary) in the next couple of turns and find the Forge Name there (which seems likely), we'll also be able to start on our Forge Sacrament, potentially right on the tail of us achieving our Knock, SH, and/or Moth Sacraments. A lot of the Sacraments seem to be coming up all at once, huh

 

[Shaper47]

Actually thinking about it on top of Baldomare's SH influence helping with DoV's Knock Sacrament and our personal SH Sacrament it would also probably help with getting rid of the evidence. Narratively at very least.

You know for locating the evidence before the Bureau, or knowing when the evidence will be unsecured.

Glory willing Velvet might be able to pull a trick where the Bureau unlocks the safe and then however unlocks it has to leave for a few minutes giving Velvet time to nab the evidence. So the Bureau ends up thinking it's just an empty safe.

 

[AuthorTransient]

Now I want to chime in my thoughts about the Sacrament choices.

Daughter of Axes Velvet Sacrament "Muh daughter collection!"

Personal Sacrament is unimportant compared to the the stunning argument for it above.

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Done and done.

Baldomare's Sacrament: The direction and flavor seems to be around expedition/searching. This presumably would be useful for Velvet personally searching for expedition sites or perhaps a search bonus like Bladomare has. Given how Velvet has Baldomare to do that stuff for her already the sacrament has a good chance of not being that useful.

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I would actually argue that while the action to take the Sacrament is an expedition, I do not think that the mechanical and narrative benefits of the Sacrament itself would be around expeditions or searching. Beyond the Map's Edge sounds like, you know, exploring alternate histories beyond the map's edge? You can't find alternate histories on a map, after all.

Then again, the main reason why I'm against our Personal Sacrament is because of the danger of swapping into alternate histories - but I suppose that could be solved with Guard actions.

Baldomare's Sacrament: The direction and flavor seems to be around translating books. This presumably would make deciphering a lot easier. However one has to consider the current situation. Which is that Velvet is going to be feeding high level book to waifu Teresa along with having minion loyal friend Jade. There's presumably nothing stopping Velvet from having Jade take Baldomare's Sacrament and then putting her on translation duty (something useful that Velvet relies on her to do would be good for her).

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I think there was a conversation about this before, that we can't 'offer' our followers Sacraments from our summons, though the details are fuzzy to me. How about this - we see what comes of gifting a Level 6 book to Baldomare first.

THE WOODS ARE ASH

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Biedde's Sacrament: The direction and flavor seems to be the Colonel. This presumably would grant something like Biedde's trait of gaining personal combat bonus's against a single foe upon being wounded by them. However it needs to be considered that the main theme of the Colonel is that HE WILL NOT RELEASE THOSE IN HIS SERVICE, with the hints that the Colonel is still around via Biedde's trait and is likely to be hiding in the worm museum. So complications may follow.

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Can we social our own summons? Walk up to Him and go, 'hey, Biedde, wtf is your sacrament about?'. Frustrating that there is enough doubt for me to actually worry that we might get stuck under the Colonel.

The Sacrament costs 1 Mansus action and can be done with the free mansus exploration action oh also a RA. The sacrament has wider consequences as it means Silky Steam doesn't end up crying and further protects the world from the worms.

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That assumes that having her friends and / or Softy suffer more wouldn't also have her cry. Protects the world from the worms? But at what cost?

Personal Sacrament: The direction and flavor seems to be around Velvet no longer being afraid (a mental condition). This presumably would fall under the theme of mental protection, especially regarding dread.

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...
Let's find Neighna first.

Personal Sacrament: The direction and flavor seems to be very similar to what Cadence pulled with Velvet and Shinning. This presumably would mean our relationships with those we love and commit the sacrament with cannot be broken.

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I've actually been reading this as... maybe it's because I've read of worse, but the way that it's worded - look, there is more than one way than to have someone to be with you forever.

You eat them.

However this doesn't get us a Name as a friend, so almost certainly not going to be picked.

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I've actually not considered that doing Mareinette's Sacrament would allow us to get another friend.

The Sacrament costs completing the project by reaching 300 points, applying Magic, Forge Level, Forge influence and Forge Reagents with each AP costing 50 bits. Magic 13 + Forge level 40 = 53, with Forge Reagents of 40 worth along with an available reroll it would be estimated to take 2 AP spread over two turns with a level 4 Forge influence applied on the last turn. So 93 + 133 =226, 300 - 226 = 74, so DC of 74 with 2 rolls with rerolls. For forge reagents they can be made with the free reagent creation action, either 4 level 2 reagents costing 80 bits total over 4 turns or sooner if there's the bits for level 4 reagents costing 80 bits each. Given the very disturbing lack of interest in Velvet gaining bits we're probably going to have to be cheap so a total of 180 bits (2 AP (50 bits each) and 4 level 2 reagents (20 bits each)).

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We can neglect Forge for a little bit - we still have ticking time bombs of Celestia and the W*ndigos. The bits from the blackmail and the steady income from Rarity will help, but I think the largest cost is that it requires an AP.

Path "Make Silky Stream cry"

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Would prefer to do the Forge personal Sacrament and summon Neighna instead.

Path "At least 20 percent cooler path that also doesn't make Silky Stream cry!"

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Too many wolves. Would hurt Softy. Nah.

Finally, I'm going to ramble on a bit here about my own ideas going forward.

See, in my view - when you do a Sacrament, it's a part like petitioning the world and the Lore to gift you an understanding, and it's a part like consolidating your own understanding to gain enlightenment over the Lore - it's like creating and making your own masterwork, in a way, like writing and defending your dissertation, or making a solidly usable sword - it certifies you as a 'master' of your craft, your Lore. And in such a way it is customized to you.

So then, doing a Name's Sacrament, it's a very intimate process (not that way, get your head out of the gutter) - that understanding becomes a part of you, you can't go back. It solidifies and becomes one part of you. So doing a Wolf Sacrament is petitioning the Wolf to gift and curse you with a part of Himself - and as such you understand the Wolf and part of you turns into a part of Himself → like, as if we are a vessel, and you pour some stuff into it.

100ml of Velvet is 100% of Velvet, but then you pour in 10ml of Wolf and it becomes 91% original Velvet and 9% Wolf, but the vessel is still 100% Velvet! Anyway. Let's not do that.

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Moving on. I am so glad we do not have a deadline on the Worms. The fear and consequences of our own actions is far more terrifying than the eldritch threat looming in the background. Yes, we want to rush to the Glory - but the Means! The Wolf is the last choice, it's a nuke, it's what you use when there's no other palatable option.

Using an example of a doctor who kills a patient to harvest their organs and save five others. In practice, this leads to a general loss of trust in doctors and hospitals → more loss of life. But also! Taking a Wolf Sacrament makes us more powerful, sure, but it doesn't lead us towards the Glory. It just makes us more powerful. Power. But Power doesn't open the lock on the gate.

And sure, the Wolf is less than lethal, but are they much better? It's a knock-on effect. The Mansus reflects reality and reality reflects the Mansus. It ripples. Dreams and actions ripple outwards - our ideas ripple outwards, especially somepony already so influential like Velvet.

Guilt is one of the most important aspects - Velvet and her Quest wouldn't be as compelling a character without it. That we're stained, and are still staining ourselves. We want to do the right thing with the least amount of cost, and that desperation drives us forward, lets us innovate and be creative and drives us like rats into the corner. And the thing about power, and our powerlessness, is that power even used with benevolent intent is corrupting.

Every pool of drinkable water matters. Every wolfberry dangling from a twig, in Texas, in January, matters. Every drop of hope we can wring out of this Quest matters. We hope to survive the horror; the horror of living in these times. And all of these, all of these matters. The difference between sustaining life and not having enough was that small.

We become what we pretend, we are what we act as - we can't run away from ourselves. I guess that is why, even long before now, I've been searching for another way out, a gentler way out. Fuck, if we are all going to be killed by the Worms, let them find us doing sensible and pony things - praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing the children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends about our love lives over a cuppa - not through monstrous actions.

And in another way, I'm glad that we have our family and friends as anchors. We worry about them, and we consider their feelings, and so we try our best not to affect them. Thank fuck. We would have tried so hard to do good - and then find out later we should have tried softer. We're not Cauldron, people. Power is rarely the right tool for survival anyway. Rather we the powerless thrive on alliances, often in the form of reciprocated acts of kindness - from beehives that were not raided, birds that were not killed but set free or fed, old women who were saluted with respect. Kindness sown among the meek is harvested in crisis.

I guess that's why we're moth, huh? There is freedom in the dark; there is change. And we want to change this world to be better. So let us seek to use our actions to sow the seed of that idea and nurture it, and only turn to self-defense when we must.

We will fuck up. We have fucked up. We will likely continue to fuck up. But dear Glory, let us have safety checks and redundancies along the way. And when we reach the Glory, when we face the final two or so updates about the accounting of our failures and the fruits of our successes, let us face them and overcome them with guilt and That Old Yearning to be better.

I measure it by this way - when we have a choice, when we have the time to do so, let us make the world better instead. Because Esquestria has no means of articulating its interests, we must always think of it. I want our daughters to grow up in a better world than we had, to be able to peek out under the shelter that we built and realize how much of a miracle it is that they can stand under the rain and not get wet.

 

[DelightedOne]

1) Take the 2 Velvet AP or go for 3? Which 4 Follower AP do we use, then?

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3 would be good, but 2 should suffice. If we decide on 3 we should use Fluttershy, Servants, 1 Selene, and Rarity.

2) Do we want a SH Influence from Baldomare for Knock sacrament/Frangiclave finding possibilities? Even if we don't have a SH Sacrament action?

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Maybe? I think if the Bureau doesn't find the Windigo jars we should get Baldomare to look for them or have her look for Neighnia if they do. But I can't deny that the Influence would help with finding the Frangiclave.

We already got humbled this turn and I don't want to go through it again because the Sacrament hunger took over, so I think we should just focus on the Knock Sacrament and do the SH one next turn.

3) What does Mareinette do? Or Biedde?

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Mareinette gives An Imminence for progress to All-4. If we have not found the Outsider yet, Biedde looks for it, if we did... meh, we could just send him to look for Windy.

 

[Nevermort]

I've actually been reading this as... maybe it's because I've read of worse, but the way that it's worded - look, there is more than one way than to have someone to be with you forever.

You eat them.

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While I considered Velvet going full yandere in her personal Grail Sacrament so far we always were told when Sacrament destroys or otherwise negatively affect ponies used for it and nothing like this is being said about it in Grail case.
So the most straightforward explanation is that personal Grail Sacrament is used to prevent those ponies from dying before Velvet. Or to revive them in one form or another . As opposing to say using another Regrettable action to revive them like in Soft's case.

 

[Shaper47]

I think there was a conversation about this before, that we can't 'offer' our followers Sacraments from our summons, though the details are fuzzy to me

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When we first summoned Baldomare and the topic for granting a Lantern Sacrament to Jade came up she told us she could do something but to get more Lantern in Jade first before she'd give anymore details.

From what I remember the not being able to offer our followers Sacraments was because Velvet didn't have a Sacrament. Because she'd want to go first for safety/comfort reasons along with control reasons.

How about this - we see what comes of gifting a Level 6 book to Baldomare first.

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Reasonable.

I've actually been reading this as... maybe it's because I've read of worse, but the way that it's worded - look, there is more than one way than to have someone to be with you forever.

You eat them

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That seems way more Mareinette's sort of thing.

Moving on. I am so glad we do not have a deadline on the Worms.

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The issue is that we do, we just don't know any details about the deadline.

Like, what your saying could be reasonable if it wasn't an unknown gamble with the World up for stakes.

But if your eyes are closed walking in the direction of the cliffs edge is dangerous. Because before you know it they're may no longer be any ground beneath your hooves.

If we had ever bothered to investigate it wouldn't be a problem. But unless we do endangering the world is an act of hubris.

 

[Greymere]

Maybe? I think if the Bureau doesn't find the Windigo jars we should get Baldomare to look for them or have her look for Neighnia if they do. But I can't deny that the Influence would help with finding the Frangiclave.

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Might. It might help with the Sacrament.

We know nothing about what it actually entails, beyond "doesn't use Knock".

 

[Shaper47]

Mareinette gives An Imminence for progress to All-4.

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That seems unwise.

It's best for Velvet to have heart 4 and a heart 4 influence when doing the Ruined Church expedition. So it'd be a waste.

Not to mention for greatest efficiency heart 3 books are a much better source of level 3 heart scraps.

Besides what would be your plan for our Moth Sacrament if not Spoiled Milk?

Might. It might help with the Sacrament.

We know nothing about what it actually entails, beyond "doesn't use Knock".

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It's not so much the Sacrament but finding the Frangiclave that the SH influence would be good for.

 

[DelightedOne]

Might. It might help with the Sacrament.

We know nothing about what it actually entails, beyond "doesn't use Knock".

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DoA is looking for a key that only opens.
She can't reach it where it is, so she needs us to find it for her.
SH bonus is literally based on "find something".

If a SH Influence wouldn't help with finding something I don't know what would.

Besides what would be your plan for our Moth Sacrament if not Spoiled Milk?

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That is my current plan, after seeing how much Mareinette managed to do with Spoiled Rich I will change it accordingly.

And I can't believe you forgot we have a Close Friend we can leash and sacrifice... just in case, because I don't want to use Cheerilee for that.

 

[Shaper47]

That is my current plan, after seeing how much Mareinette managed to do with Spoiled Rich I will change it accordingly.

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We're probably going to need to put Mareinette on that then as I heavily doubt Mareinette could get her to Good Friends as part of that joint social action with our buddy Rich.

And I can't believe you forgot we have a Close Friend we can leash and sacrifice... just in case, because I don't want to use Cheerilee for that.

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Nah, I don't want to risk Starry Dancer version two badmouthing us to the foals.

Not after that Mares and Mothers cannon omake.

 

[Greymere]

DoA is looking for a key that only opens.
She can't reach it where it is, so she needs us to find it for her.
SH bonus is literally based on "find something".

If a SH Influence wouldn't help with finding something I don't know what would.

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Some possibilities for you then.

Perhaps it is trivial to find, but behind a ward that must be shattered or surrounded by a curse that must be endured. Perhaps it has found its way into the hooves of another, who will not give it up without a fight, a convincing argument, or by trickery and deception. Perhaps obtaining the Frangiclave itself is unrelated to the actual errand that DoA would have us run, seeing as there would be no reason for her to be running around the Wake searching for it if she already knows she cannot reach it, and we will instead be able to obtain the Frangiclave as a consequence of the Sacrament's power.

 

[AuthorTransient]

The issue is that we do, we just don't know any details about the deadline.

Like, what your saying could be reasonable if it wasn't an unknown gamble with the World up for stakes.

But if your eyes are closed walking in the direction of the cliffs edge is dangerous. Because before you know it they're may no longer be any ground beneath your hooves.

If we had ever bothered to investigate it wouldn't be a problem. But unless we do endangering the world is an act of hubris.

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Yeah, that's what I mean - that we don't know a definite deadline. If we had a definite deadline, holy shit it would be much harder to juggle everything. So I consider it lucky that we don't know the deadline, even if it means endangering the world. You keep trying so hard, and I'm in the background asking you to try softer.

I understand where you're coming from - but the truth is we don't know - and in that ignorance I would rather do things out of love and hope than out of fear. If not for the Worms.

...should we spend an action checking for the deadline?

 

[Shaper47]

...should we spend an action checking for the deadline?

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Honestly that kind of depends on plans for future actions.

If we're going to be having Selene reduce the darkness so the lights can shine brighter every turn and have Cadence get pregnant soon then yes. Investigating is kinda a must because we'd be making the situation a lot more dangerous in regards to the Worm threat.

If we go wolf Sacrament and make efforts to not have the lights shine brighter i.e. no Selene actions and keeping Caddy not pregnant. Then really there's no need at all as we'd already be buying time.

Otherwise it might just be best to focus on Sacraments and Glory at the moment. Like sure it probably only takes 1 Baldomare action to find the Wards location for an expedition to send our Names to check on there status. But we kinda need those Baldomare actions for sacraments, Glory searching progress and expedition scouting (beneath the royal castle three here we come). So like maybe in a few turns.

Basically if we plan on doing anything that would attract the Worms we should check beforehand to make sure it's not totally going to blow up in our faces.

 

[Greymere]

...should we spend an action checking for the deadline?

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How would we even do that? It's not like we can measure the blueshift of the mega-Worms out in Nowhere.

 

[Arrkhon]

How would we even do that? It's not like we can measure the blueshift of the mega-Worms out in Nowhere.

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We could look up and check how much of the void is starring back to determine how fucked we are, for all we know the last thousand years attracted everything around us and trying to extinguish the light will achieve nothing because everything is coming here anyway

 

[Greymere]

We could look up and check how much of the void is starring back to determine how fucked we are, for all we know the last thousand years attracted everything around us and trying to extinguish the light will achieve nothing because everything is coming here anyway

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That wouldn't actually tell us anything about a deadline though.

Edit: BTW @OurLadyOfWires, now that Selene is done her training, does the Diligent trait do anything anymore or is it just now obsolete?

 

[Shaper47]

How would we even do that? It's not like we can measure the blueshift of the mega-Worms out in Nowhere.

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Just have Baldomare scry the Wards location then send a Name filled expedition to check it out.

They'll be able to tell us how fucked we are after investing the situation.

 

[Arrkhon]

That wouldn't actually tell us anything about a deadline though.

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Because there isn't really one, there probably isn't some Ultra Worm out there that insta kills us the moment it detects us, it's countless progressively stronger Worms noticing us, it's less of a deadline problem and more of heat management one really

 

[Greymere]

Because there isn't really one, there probably isn't some Ultra Worm out there that insta kills us the moment it detects us, it's countless progressively stronger Worms noticing us, it's less of a deadline problem and more of heat management one really

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Okay, but Author and (I presume) Shaper were talking about a deadline. Which is what I was responding to.

If you want my actual opinion, it's that any question of deadlines or whatnot isn't actually conductive because we have no way to find out and, from a meta perspective, Rocks Fall Everyone Dies from a deadline that we were never even suggested exists would be a really shitty way to end the quest.

 

[Shaper47]

In which a teacher thinks of Mothers and Mares

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Should probably change this to "What of" rather then "In which".

Still it reminded me of that mention by Scootaloo.

Because… "auntie" Baldie feels waaay too much like a teacher, to you. In fact, you are reminded of Miss Cheerilee whenever you look at her. So calling her "auntie" just feels wrong.

This might just be a trauma you have, from that one time you called Miss Cheerilee "mom", but that is beyond the point.

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[Bakkasama]

Hey, someone remind me, our followers can cast attention of the laws on us, right? I know only Names can can influences on other ponies, but I was under the impression that we could use followers to load up on AotL for our fight with Biedde.

 

[spiderhellian]

We don't have a deadline. We do have a main quest that is REALLY, REALLY, important.

And deserves our focus accordingly.

I measure it by this way - when we have a choice, when we have the time to do so, let us make the world better instead. Because Esquestria has no means of articulating its interests, we must always think of it. I want our daughters to grow up in a better world than we had, to be able to peek out under the shelter that we built and realize how much of a miracle it is that they can stand under the rain and not get wet.

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I really enjoyed your writing throughout this post!

Nah, I don't want to risk Starry Dancer version two badmouthing us to the foals.

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Moth sacrament has been stated to leave the person as Not Appearing In This Quest, not making them a problem.

 

[Solace2117]

If we seek the blood of an outsider I think we'll want every edge we can get. I suspect siccing Biedde on it won't be enough. Though I agree that it's too early to say how sacraments should be prioritized until at least next turn.

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Eh I'm skeptical that Edge is the only solution to the problem though probably the most straightforward. If it comes down to Velvet in combat against Discord, we've probably already lost without a lot of help anyways. A sacrament is always useful, but probably wouldn't be something we have to rush for.

The issue is that we do, we just don't know any details about the deadline.

Like, what your saying could be reasonable if it wasn't an unknown gamble with the World up for stakes.

But if your eyes are closed walking in the direction of the cliffs edge is dangerous. Because before you know it they're may no longer be any ground beneath your hooves.

If we had ever bothered to investigate it wouldn't be a problem. But unless we do endangering the world is an act of hubris.

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I'm just not that worried about a hard deadline. Ourladyofwires is harsh, but fair. I think as with the Celestia issue, we'd get at least a little warning. I don't think Harmony is a trap option, they clearly like both settings and enjoy writing them both. I think to an extent the influence of Harmony on the world is what allows us to befriend the Names in the first place. Does this mean we can just fuck around indefinitely, no, but it also doesn't mean it'll all just bad end out of nowhere.

Looking back on the Copper assault her words struck me. Her words about Velvet being Glory obsessed make me wonder how far she had actually climbed. I think that's the crux of the issue more than anything. Velvet is the only one capable of stopping the Worms because she's the only one actually willing the climb. Even the Master had made note that their followers weren't really trying which is why they gave up on reaching Glory to pursue dimming the lights.

 

[Sveta08]

Morning folks.
Seems people have been somewhat busy discussing what need be done in the next bit. Sacrament preparation and all.
Frankly speaking, I would bet Forge would be the most useful influence to receive for Axe's Sacrament.

Oh, but thank you for reminding me. We still haven't seen the results of Mareinnete's socialization. Another uncertainty in the wings.