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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

If we are stocked up on, say, Edge AotLs, then the choice becomes bail on DoA or let the AotLs go to waste.

The QM said that no lore Application would be used for Sacraments (Biedde's/Edge is the exception).

So AotL's shouldn't really come up regarding DoA's Sacrament.

Spoiled's one servant AP cannot compare to that.

Look we're probably already wasting one extreamly valuable followers AP calling for the Worms and boy do I hate that. At least it's not having Names covering bases.

Sadly it's time to pick the plans that give at least part of what we want even if they have something we hate.

To approval vote for plans that have an SH influence so we can grab a new daughter instead of kicking the snake out.

Like a Grail Influence, since all the FOs people want are social. And maybe we'll have to talk to people on the other side of the mirror!

Given well,

Especially since we can't Moth Sacrament instantly anyways.

We could have Mareinette do something else and just have her social Spoiled next turn. Only Lightchaser is reading the Moth book this turn and it sacrificing DoA to do so.

Pretty sure Grail lesson is next in line though on the priority list given her befriending requirements.

I don't think the Family and Friends FO are the sort to really be buffed by Grail however.

And if we crush the DoA Sacrament and want to use our freshly reclaimed AP on our SH Sacrament, it would probably help with Alt Velvet negotiations!

But we're not doing any social actions with alternate Velvet's we're just switching places? It's pure SH.
 
It's done.
Went faster than I expected, though I will be touching it up over the next day or four.
Not gonna release it until after the Velvet Actions are decided, because... well...

It won't help. And it would just make things more difficult all around.
You, too, are trying to teach us the taste of Anticipation, huh?

IMO, That (conversation) which can be destroyed by your omake should be! But I'll look forward to it all the same :)
If we are stocked up on, say, Edge AotLs, then the choice becomes bail on DoA or let the AotLs go to waste. Far better to invest Follower Actions that will benefit us regardless of what accosts us in getting that key.
We need one AotL (and our own) for solid odds.

It's a fair point about Mareinette's action, hmm…
befriending requirements
We don't need lore scraps to befriend Mareinette! Her Sacrament action can be taken at 0/4.
 
We don't need lore scraps to befriend Mareinette! Her Sacrament action can be taken at 0/4.

Look if we're crossing the Rubicon to get the Sacrament I want to at least get to level 5 in the lore.

Besides we really use Grail a lot.

In hindsight focusing on Grail from the beginning would have made things a lot easier.
 
The QM said that no lore Application would be used for Sacraments (Biedde's/Edge is the exception).

So AotL's shouldn't really come up regarding DoA's Sacrament.



Look we're probably already wasting one extreamly valuable followers AP calling for the Worms and boy do I hate that. At least it's not having Names covering bases.

Sadly it's time to pick the plans that give at least part of what we want even if they have something we hate.

To approval vote for plans that have an SH influence so we can grab a new daughter instead of kicking the snake out.



Given well,



We could have Mareinette do something else and just have her social Spoiled next turn. Only Lightchaser is reading the Moth book this turn and it sacrificing DoA to do so.

Pretty sure Grail lesson is next in line though on the priority list given her befriending requirements.

I don't think the Family and Friends FO are the sort to really be buffed by Grail however.



But we're not doing any social actions with alternate Velvet's we're just switching places? It's pure SH.

1. What I am saying is that if a follower gives us an Edge AotL in preparation for Biedde and we get smacked for a wound while reaching for the key, then choosing not to go after Biedde later in the turn will result in that AotL fading away worthlessly. Biedde's is a Sacrament where the focus of the turn should really be on that particular Sacrament.

2. This is Selene using Winter to get people to calm down. It's not calling in the Worms any more than other Lores.

3. It's an FO involving Jade. I don't expect guaranteed success there.

4. Even when we didn't know what we were in for, we reached an accord with Knock Velvet over how long our mutual body swap would be. Sure, no rolls were involved, but for the second or third time Velvet will know what is coming up. And Bird does consider the narrative impact of things even when no dice are thrown. A max-power Sacrament has plenty of narrative oomph.
 
3. It's an FO involving Jade. I don't expect guaranteed success there.

Except that Jade is not a pony of whom Grail will be useful for.

Mechanically and narratively it's something like + 40 Grail Influence level 4 - 40 Jade is really uncomfortable with this.

4. Even when we didn't know what we were in for, we reached an accord with Knock Velvet over how long our mutual body swap would be. Sure, no rolls were involved, but for the second or third time Velvet will know what is coming up. And Bird does consider the narrative impact of things even when no dice are thrown. A max-power Sacrament has plenty of narrative oomph.

Even if it did involve Grail bombing alternative Velvet's from an entire history away (and that that is even possible in the first place) they're switching bodies. So what would stop the alternative Velvet from Grail bombing our Velvet once she's in alternates body?

1. What I am saying is that if a follower gives us an Edge AotL in preparation for Biedde and we get smacked for a wound while reaching for the key, then choosing not to go after Biedde later in the turn will result in that AotL fading away worthlessly. Biedde's is a Sacrament where the focus of the turn should really be on that particular Sacrament.

Valid point though I don't think it's that much of a risk.

However it's kinda unneeded now. No plan with added Edge AotL's is close to winning.

Egh, I'm probably going to have to ping some people about approval voting for We Can Be More and We Can Be More + Edge (no Prison). I really don't want to ditch DoA just to get a Lantern influence.

2. This is Selene using Winter to get people to calm down. It's not calling in the Worms any more than other Lores.

It literally says some stuff about lifting the darkness in the description and we all know what the light calls.

Maybe if the QM didn't literally let us throw Velvet right where a few bad rolls would have ended up with Velvet being worm-consumed I'd doubt it. But they've shown a willingness to let Velvet make enormous risks of a worm related bad end already.
 
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I do not agree with Shaper on many things, but the one thing I do agree with is going for the SH Sacrament over the Lantern Sacrament. We are first and foremost going through the mirror to find something. So we should use the Lore of Finding Things, which is SH. Leave the Lantern be for now.
 
It literally says some stuff about lifting the darkness in the description and we all know what the light calls.

Maybe if the QM didn't literally let us throw Velvet right where a few bad rolls would have ended up with Velvet being worm-consumed I'd doubt it. But they've shown a willingness to let Velvet make enormous risks of a worm related bad end already.

We know what the light of Harmony and Ponykinds hopes, dreams, and wonder does to the Worms. But this is Winter. It isn't stoking the flames brighter. It says it pushes back the darkness, and that can mean many things, not just the light that attracts Worms.

It could, for example, refer to fear and terror and sorrow and Agony. Sure it's soothing the fears and pains of the night, her normal duties but empowered by Winter. There is every chance that she'll merely soften the nights embrace instead of drawing the attention of the Worms- especially now that she remembers what the worms did to her and why they were drawn here. She isn't as blind or ignorant as before.

On top of all that… QM has promised they'll not offer options that are an instant Quest Over. If this Choice drew the Worms immediately, it wouldn't be offered. Even if it speeds their arrival slightly, we're claiming Glory soon. Unless things go MASSIVELY wrong, just seeing what the mechanic does won't cause us to lose when we're this close and this motivated.

The main hope is that it'll aid Celestia. If it can do so, act as a Dread or something to help stamp out some of her Fascination, then this action will be worth it.
 
That's your opinión, if it ends up happening you can tell us "I told you so."

But as is it just sounds like paranoia and bias.

People were claiming bias when I said Bureau loyalty was of lesser importance to bits given how they certainly wouldn't help us get to Discord like people were claiming.

I was right then and that had much much less evidence to back it up then this matter.

Calling it paranoia when precedent supports me is a pretty big stretch.
 
People were claiming bias when I said Bureau loyalty was of lesser importance to bits given how they certainly wouldn't help us get to Discord like people were claiming.

I was right then and that had much much less evidence to back it up then this matter.

Calling it paranoia when precedent supports me is a pretty big stretch.
Ha. Ha ha. "Precedent".

Precedent supports you as a baseless fearmonger and Wolf simp.

You've spent a huge amount of time going on and on about how Harmony is totally intentionally trying to get the Worms to invade Equestria, despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
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Precedent supports you as a baseless fearmonger and Wolf simp.

Crude insults and worthless slander.

Go back to SV if you can't keep your forked tongue within your worm drenched mouth.

This is a place for honest debate, logical and emotional reasoning. Not your pitchforks and torches and up jumped false righteousness to try and burn down this quest again.


You've spent a huge amount of time going on and on about how Harmony is totally intentionally trying to get the Worms to invade Equestria

It was either that or Harmony is disturbingly incompetent and doing it accidentally.

In hindsight I was assigning Malice to thoughtlessness.


despite all evidence to the contrary.

???

That evidence does not exist unless there's a bunch of WoG's I know nothing about.

We know almost nothing about the Worm situation other then Harmony's light is calling them.

I can only theorize on the information provided and it has been very slim.
 
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Crude insults and worthless slander.

Go back to SV if you can't keep your forked tongue within your worm drenched mouth.

This is a place for honest debate, logical and emotional reasoning. Not your pitchforks and torches and up jumped false righteousness to try and burn down this quest again.




It was either that or Harmony is disturbingly incompetent and doing it accidentally.

In hindsight I was assigning Malice to thoughtlessness.




???

That evidence does not exist unless there's a bunch of WoG's I know nothing about.

We know almost nothing about the Worm situation other then Harmony's light is calling them.

I can only theorize on the information provided and it has been very slim.


We also know that Alicorns passively evaporate Worms and that the Elements can cure a Host who has been Wormed for literal centuries.

Cultist Simulator has... the Lionsmith crushing worms. And their bodies still have to go into the Worm Museum under active guard by the Colonel, because apparently getting crushed by an Hour isn't enough on its own. And since we got to see the Worm Museum in the Mansus in-quest, we know that things are similar here. And that prior to Harmony the Worms were attracted to Glory.

The Worms come no matter what, I'm sorry to say. But thankfully they are, according to the Baldomare, being stymied by some sort of warding. Which, if we look at the Dreamlands, appear to be doors. Magic dream doors, to be precise.
 
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Crude insults and worthless slander.

I've already given my thoughts on the matter of Selene's action.

As for Hormony's maliciousness or thoughtlessness… Harmony may be entirely ignorant of the Worms, or only have recently gained awareness of them. Lacking context for a problem tends to render one ineffective at solving it- which is why we would have taught it to hide its light. It is VERY young compared to Glory, and it lived in a world under Moth Wards until very recently, and so likely never realized it needed to hide at all, much less that there was sobering it needed to hide FROM.

Beyond all of that though, I was wondering, Shaper, if you'd join us on the Brockton Bay interpretation of this Quest that Our Lady plugged a short while ago? I've been there since nearly the beginning and… well, quite frankly, I feel your logic and mind are going to be needed. We've made a number of critical errors, some of which I blame myself for. I struggle with some things, and you excel in both being convincing, and having very useful ideas.

I really hope to see you, because I sincerely think we need your help, and I lack the skills and foresight you often display. While not what I'd choose to go with on this particular quest most often, I really believe you're possibly one of the few people that might turn around the nightmare we've got going over there. If we're lucky enough not to lose during this very next update…
 
I really hope to see you, because I sincerely think we need your help, and I lack the skills and foresight you often display. While not what I'd choose to go with on this particular quest most often, I really believe you're possibly one of the few people that might turn around the nightmare we've got going over there. If we're lucky enough not to lose during this very next update…
Oh man, what's been happening over there? I've gotta admit, the moment I saw character creation decided to monomaniacally focus on combat I lost pretty much any interest I had in following it.
 
Oh man, what's been happening over there? I've gotta admit, the moment I saw character creation decided to monomaniacally focus on combat I lost pretty much any interest I had in following it.

We've nearly critted numerous times on diplomacy rolls and have encountered an enemy we've tried to kill at least twice. We seem unable to roll above a 10 when facing her due purely to luck, despite a +43 to combat.

Seriously. It's INSANE. Any and all assistance in making better choices would be very greatly appreciated…
 
Beyond all of that though, I was wondering, Shaper, if you'd join us on the Brockton Bay interpretation of this Quest that Our Lady plugged a short while ago?

First off I just want to say I'm touched that your reaching out to me on this.

I know that sometimes I can't be the easiest person to deal with. I care deeply and honestly try my hardest which makes things sensitive occasionally.

For all that this quest is wonderful it feels like trying to fight with both eyes torn out and one limb behind our backs. I... I probably don't take that with as much grace as I really should.

I'm not really into Worm (that there are no coincidences in SH says bad things about the name correlations) but I'll give it a look.

and you excel in both being convincing, and having very useful ideas.

I wouldn't say I'm very convincing, I feel like I'm horsely talking hard rocks sometimes but that's sweet of you to say.

As for ideas...

Let's see what I can do, there's a lot I've wanted to forward here that events have discouraged.
 
So like, I know we have have been a pretty terrible host to Mareinette and all but maybe we should mention to her why we have her befriending Spoiled Rich, both to help her make better decisions and avoid the chance of her being annoyed at us practically setting what she worked on so far on fire
I doubt she would mind it much if at all but still, it's only polite
 
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Sigh, there are more votes for SH influence but spread out across the plans.

If only it was it's own separate vote.

Thinking about what Velvet's phase would be with a Lantern influence (and wasting a Name on covering bases).

1 AP trying DoA's Sacrament (probably conditional with the realization after trying it that attempting it should be done with an SH influence to find the Frangiclave)
1 AP Artifacts (lantern and winter) (probably lantern Aotl)
1 AP Books (Moth)
1 AP Forge's Redemption
3 AP FO's

So basically DoA gets the boot (how sad), Velvet's sacramentless (still), 3 lantern scraps (One more and can get the lantern Sacrament), 1 winter scrap (2/4, one influence away from 4/4), 1 Moth scrap (can get Sacrament next turn), scar is finally healed and Velvet keeps her Fleeting Opportunity Addict Title.

Compared to an SH influence.

5 AP Knock and SH Sacraments
1 AP Friends FO
1 AP undecided (probably Selene, Forge's Redemption or Moth book with lantern Aotl)

Basically get the Daughter of Velvet as our new hatching daughter, two Sacraments and one more cool thing for us to pick. Could still get Moth Sacrament next turn if wanted.
 
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3 AP DoA's Sacrament

???

probably conditional with the realization after trying it that attempting it should be done with an SH influence to find the Frangiclave)

It's almost certainty going to be conditional to attempt to do more then 1 AP on DoA's Sacrament. Or at least would be a giant waste if it wasn't.

Because Velvet's not really after the Sacrament in itself but the Frangiclave which is almost certainly going to require an SH influence. Because SH is the Lore of finding things.

So Velvet is going to try it once, probably make an SH roll with a reroll. Fail because she doesn't have a SH influence to throw at it. Then decide to come back later when she does have an SH influence. Unless you want to have Velvet try again and again getting the Knock Sacrament but completely failing the rolls to get the Frangiclave.

If Velvet was just after the Knock Sacrament sure she could do it on a Lantern influence turn. But she's not, she's after finding the Frangiclave.

Like maybe Velvet might roll really well and get the Frangiclave without an SH influence. But it's more likely that completing the Sacrament without grabbing the Frangiclave just means Velvet has to go back and try again (wasting AP) later.
 
5 AP Knock and SH Sacraments
1 AP Friends FO
1 AP undecided (probably Selene, Forge's Redemption or Moth book with lantern Aotl)
Pretty sure it would be 4 AP in sacraments, 2 AP in Friends and Family FO and 1 AP in FR.

1 AP trying DoA's Sacrament (probably conditional with the realization after trying it that attempting it should be done with an SH influence to find the Frangiclave)
1 AP Artifacts (lantern and winter) (probably lantern Aotl)
1 AP Books (Moth)
1 AP Forge's Redemption
3 AP FO's
I don't think I read anyone mention taking the Steppes FO. And if in the SH influence plan the idea is "Take several actions on the Knock Sacrament and if we finish early use them for SH sacrament" why wouldn't they do the same but replacing SH sacrament with research? It would probably be more like:
3 AP DoA
1 AP research
1 AP FR
2 AP FO

Edit: Shaper, I think you are doing A LOT of assumptions regarding how the expedition works without a lot of evidence. SH helping to find things? That's reasonable. Us having to return if we fail a single roll? Not so much (assuming we have 3 health by then)
 
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Because Velvet's not really after the Sacrament in itself but the Frangiclave which is almost certainly going to require an SH influence. Because SH is the Lore of finding things.
Fair, but isn't it like the same thing? Especially if DoA knows about the Frangiclave being there(she probably does and was looking for something in the Wake to help her get it since she can't just go and take it).

I doubt she wouldn't just give Velvet her Sacrament if we got her the thing she is been trying to get/copy for an Era.
 
Especially if DoA knows about the Frangiclave being there(she probably does and was looking for something in the Wake to help her get it since she can't just go and take it).

DoA explicitly does not know that the Frangiclave is there.

She was/is searching the Wake to see if the Frangiclaveis in the Wake.

So whatever DoA wants us to do in the Foggy Mirror for her Sacrament does not involve us finding the Frangiclave. That's separate.

Shaper, I think you are doing A LOT of assumptions regarding how the expedition works without a lot of evidence. SH helping to find things? That's reasonable. Us having to return if we fail a single roll? Not so much (assuming we have 3 health by then)

To make things clearer.

Completing the Sacrament and finding the Frangiclave are separate things.

My guess for finding the Frangiclave is either it's a single high level DC that doesn't change, a single high level DC that Velvet gets bonuses towards depend on each SH roll or it has a progress bar.

We can complete the Sacrament without finding the Frangiclave and thus once Velvet understands that and us the mechanics conditionally we'd be strongly encouraged to return and do it later. Because that's not what we want.


I doubt she wouldn't just give Velvet her Sacrament if we got her the thing she is been trying to get/copy for an Era.

Basically I think that's separate and doing 3 AP on DoA's Sacrament would give us her Sacrament but not the Frangiclave or befriend her.
 
We can complete the Sacrament without finding the Frangiclave and thus once Velvet understands that and us the mechanics conditionally we'd be strongly encouraged to return and do it later. Because that's not what we want.
Or things go the way you say but Velvet chooses to use those actions to keep looking for the Fangiclave beyond the foggy mirror instead of completing the task that DoA gives her. Since Axe presumably wants us to do something there instead of the sacrament being completed just by spending time there.

That would give 4 SH rolls, (well, 3 rolls + 1 reroll, which is worse if it is a progress bar).

Mind, I agree that we should call SH instead of Lantern, I just feel that the option is being misrepresented.
 
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Or we could do

1 AP Forge's Redemption
2 AP FO's
3 AP DoA's Sacrament
1 AP Books (Moth)

That sounds good enough.
I really, really want to study the Lantern 4 artifact though.

Cause like, right now? We only have one usable scryer, which is Baldomare, because Jade can't use her house as a ritual site. But if we have the Lantern 4 artifact studied, any of our Confidants can roll to scry shit with around +50 on the Lantern roll (or higher, for Selene). Which means we can do things like have Baldomare channel Influences or Lore lessons or finally find out what "Go Have Fun" does and have Jade work on ritual research without completely forfeiting our ability to scry without eating into our precious, precious Velvet AP or risking discovery.

And, you know, the ability to scry for more than like one thing at a time. Scouting expeditions, looking for high-level artifacts to use in All In, finding lucrative expedition sites...
 
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I really, really want to study the Lantern 4 artifact though.
I think we can do that too. If I'm not mistaken a deciphering action has the same cost as a regular study action and our Lantern Realization allows us to study 1 Artifact and 1 Book.

The Moth 5 Book has a 100 progress requirement and -50 to rolls(I'll just put that as a 150 DC).

I think we are only doing that if the Lantern Influence wins so we need:
40(Influence) + 15(Learning, Lantern doubled) + 40(Lantern bonus, doubled) + 5(Artifact minimum, maximum +15) + 5(Well Read)= 105.

150-105=45

We need a 45 roll at worst and a 35 roll at best and we have a reroll. So it is possible to do it in just 1 roll.

In that case the Artifact would be DC: 90(50 base + 10 times Lantern 4) and we would need

40(Influence) + 14(Learning) + 20(Lantern bonus) + 5(Artifact minimum, maximum +15) + 5(Well Read)= 84.

90-84= 6.

Wow, just a 6(and it might auto succeed if the Artifact cooperates), that is actually better than I thought it would be.
 
I really, really want to study the Lantern 4 artifact though.

Cause like, right now? We only have one usable scryer, which is Baldomare, because Jade can't use her house as a ritual site. But if we have the Lantern 4 artifact studied, any of our Confidants can roll to scry shit with around +50 on the Lantern roll (or higher, for Selene). Which means we can do things like have Baldomare channel Influences or Lore lessons or finally find out what "Go Have Fun" does and have Jade work on ritual research without completely forfeiting our ability to scry without eating into our precious, precious Velvet AP or risking discovery.

And, you know, the ability to scry for more than like one thing at a time. Scouting expeditions, looking for high-level artifacts to use in All In, finding lucrative expedition sites...
Or finally summon MitL, provided that we find and appropriate ritual site. We could give the lantern artifact to either Luna or Axe for it (though it is unlikely that we would use Axe for it since she is too good at expeditions).

Or give the Lantern and Edge artifact to anypony with a Knock reagent.

Edit: On one hand, I want the Moth book read to do the sacrament as soon as possible. On the other, if we are going to summon an influence for this I would like to do several research actions and we already have several AP earmarked for the Knock sacrament.

So it would be between SH (aiming for Knock sacrament this turn, Edge sacrament and reading next turn and Moth sacrament the one after)
Or Lantern (aiming for Knock sacrament this turn as well as reading and Edge and Moth sacrament next one)
But with the caveat that SH is more likely to be relevant for the Knock sacrament.
 
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