Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

Yes Risen is free
So 3 Axe Sacraments (Any Excess into SecretHistories)
1 Friends FO
1 Family FO

And the last two are variable. Currently I am thinking Forge Redemption and Uncle FO so we discover Velvet's traumatic past and perhaps talk it out with Uncle. Or case can be made that we want more sacrament action. I don't think that books or artifact study would be very effective without Lantern.

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I'm thinking 4 axe sacrament actions, just to be absolutely sure.

After all if we finish it then it's all fine anyway.

4 Axe Sacrament AP (extra into SH Sacrament, if our of SH rerolls into social actions)
1 Friends FO
1 Cadance FO
1 Train Luna


last one could be Uncle FO, or Forge, or we COULD still study even without a Lantern Influence

Studying an artifact:
-You roll against a CD of (50 + 10 times artifact Lore level), using Learning and Lantern Application.
-Your main objective is to discover if the artifact has any special properties, discover how to properly use it, and to ensure it is not cursed or dangerous to use.
-Upon success, you gain one scrap of the corresponding Lore, but you do not produce a corresponding Manuscript.

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we roll... DC 90 for a lvl 4 artifact, with 1d100 + 14 + 20 with a reroll.

...1d100+34 on a DC 90... ok, that's actually fairly low.

just as a confirmation, those were the NEW rules, right? I remember they changed a bit a turn ago or so.

Man, if only we had a studied Lantern 4 artifact to give to someone with a +30 base modifier (after this turn) who could do RotT... Someone who we didn't have to worry about being negatively emotionally and mentally impacted if they fail a potentially very difficult roll...

That would be pretty handy for situations like this, wouldn't it?

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eh, trade offs, don't be salty. We don't really even NEED the lvl 7 book now.

We need it, at the latest, in 3 turns, even if earlier is obviously better

 

[Greymere]

I guess technically we could also just scry for the book ourselves

We wouldn't be able to do FR if we want to reagent-boost it though (and I'd assume we would)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I'm thinking 4 axe sacrament actions, just to be absolutely sure.

After all if we finish it then it's all fine anyway.

4 Axe Sacrament AP (extra into SH Sacrament, if our of SH rerolls into social actions)
1 Friends FO
1 Cadance FO
1 Train Luna


last one could be Uncle FO, or Forge, or we COULD still study even without a Lantern Influence


we roll... DC 90 for a lvl 4 artifact, with 1d100 + 14 + 20 with a reroll.

...1d100+34 on a DC 90... ok, that's actually fairly low.

just as a confirmation, those were the NEW rules, right? I remember they changed a bit a turn ago or so.


eh, trade offs, don't be salty. We don't really even NEED the lvl 7 book now.

We need it, at the latest, in 3 turns, even if earlier is obviously better

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There is no Cadance FO, QM said she gets rolled in with Friends.

Training Luna can also be done with Free Social, I just remembered, so that's an AP freed up for something.

We don't even necessarily need the Level 7 Book in 3 Turns, we have a Knock Book we can toss her way to extend her summon once more.
But to be clear I absolutely do not want to wait that long to locate the Level 7 Book.

 

[Rafuki22]

1 Cadance FO

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You mean Family FO because Cadance falls under the Friends FO.

 

[Shaper47]

and hey, once we're at full health, in a turn we're not doing the Edge Sacrament, I'd like to get a Heart Influence from Mareinette and try the Red Church again.

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I want Heart 4 too.

but may be something to do next turn.

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Honestly I think we should just use those free actions to focus on Cadance, always.

I believe Ourladyofwires has said that they prefer we not do conditionals. If we complete it early they'll open a vote with what else to do.

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Just put everything on them then.

Good luck convincing people to drop Luna training, FR, or an FO though.

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Family and Friends FO's are pretty much locked in.

Aside from them we should mono focus on our Knock and SH Sacraments to take advantage of our SH influence.

To be really optimal since we are going in on a SH influance, we should do the 2 actions to complete the scarument, then spend the rest on getting the Key. We would then be SH 5 for the search.

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That's... actually really optimal.

4 Axe Sacrament AP (extra into SH Sacrament, if our of SH rerolls into social actions)
1 Friends FO
1 Cadance FO
1 Train Luna

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Cadance is part of Friends FO and we really really should complete our SH Sacrament while we have the SH influence.

 

[Rafuki22]

Cadance is part of Friends FO and we really really should complete our SH Sacrament while we have the SH influence.

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Depending on what happens, and the rolls, we can do 1 or 2 in this turn, otherwise we can just get another level 4 SH influence next turn.

 

[Shaper47]

Depending on what happens, and the rolls, we can do 1 or 2 in this turn, otherwise we can just get another level 4 SH influence next turn.

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If we want Lantern 5 in two turns we need Baldomare free.

Either study the Lantern artifact this turn or next.

Get a Lantern lesson next turn from Baldomare.

Get a Lantern influence the turn after next and our Sacrament.

Not to mention wanting Baldomare to scry Beneath the Royal Castle.

 

[spiderhellian]

Not to mention wanting Baldomare to scry Beneath the Royal Castle.

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This feels like a luxury we really don't need.

I can't imagine not sending DoA/Velvet/probably Selene. With a decent array of artefacts.

And that should be strong enough to handle whatever comes up.

 

[Solace2117]

Thinking about it, I may actually make a plan like this
Friends FO
Family FO
2 SH sacraments
4 Axe

Might be a touch risky, but if we could pull it off it would free up so much. We'd have two Sacraments, a friendly Axe, and we would be free to use Baldomare for anything next turn without the arguments about using Baldomare's influence to complete the sacrament. I do wish there was a way to boost it further.
I don't think Ourladyofwires ever answered if we could use reagents for it which means probably no. It would make some narrative sense because we gained the ability and lore level from Velvet in a different history, but from a mechanical perspective I get why the answer may be no.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

If we want Lantern 5 in two turns we need Baldomare free.

Either study the Lantern artifact this turn or next.

Get a Lantern lesson next turn from Baldomare.

Get a Lantern influence the turn after next and our Sacrament.

Not to mention wanting Baldomare to scry Beneath the Royal Castle.

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Can't get Baldomare Lantern Influence and Sacrament on the same turn. Both take her Action for the turn.

 

[Shaper47]

This feels like a luxury we really don't need.

I can't imagine not sending DoA/Velvet/probably Selene. With a decent array of artefacts.

And that should be strong enough to handle whatever comes up.

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That's a good point.

Could probably even have Biedde edge influence on Selene to be extra safe.

 

[Greymere]

Thinking about it, I may actually make a plan like this
Friends FO
Family FO
2 SH sacraments
4 Axe

Might be a touch risky, but if we could pull it off it would free up so much. We'd have two Sacraments, a friendly Axe, and we would be free to use Baldomare for anything next turn without the arguments about using Baldomare's influence to complete the sacrament. I do wish there was a way to boost it further.
I don't think Ourladyofwires ever answered if we could use reagents for it which means probably no. It would make some narrative sense because we gained the ability and lore level from Velvet in a different history, but from a mechanical perspective I get why the answer may be no.

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Are one of those FOs being covered by the free social? Because otherwise you have one too many actions in there.

 

[Solace2117]

Are one of those FOs being covered by the free social? Because otherwise you have one too many actions in there.

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Yes

 

[Shaper47]

Thinking about it, I may actually make a plan like this
Friends FO
Family FO
2 SH sacraments
4 Axe

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Free social is used for Family FO I see.

Can't get Baldomare Lantern Influence and Sacrament on the same turn. Both take her Action for the turn.

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Our personal lantern sacrament doesn't cost a Baldomare action and is probably useful for finding out how to heal Baldomare.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Our greatest buffs this turn will be in Grail and Secret Histories. To not take full advantage of those while we have them would waste Baldomare AND Marrinette's actions. So what takes advantage of both of these?

Under Grail we POTENTIALLY have:
Midday Dew (Commissioner) (locked in)
Family FO
Friends FO

This is good because Midday Dew may give us an opportunity to either turn the Bureau into our "cult" or even give us a chance to delay the Celestia countdown if we keep on top of that. Family is mostly gonna be putting out fires that may interrupt us in the future. Friends is the same for Jade and Cadance among the rest of them, with potential buffs. We have no guarantees with Grail on any of these (and Grail isn't usually preferred for Jade anyways if I recall right), but to not take our chances would be wasteful.

Under Secret Histories we POTENTIALLY have:
DoA Sacrament (Maybe)
Personal SH Sacrament
Heart Book Search

DoA Sacrament gets 3 actions minimum. SH would be nice, but it's not easy to fit in right now. A heart book search MAY be useful in the long run if we want to go for it, but Marinette may be too busy over the next few turns to give us a Heart influence and get us 2 more scraps to close in on LV4.

All our other preferences:
Train Luna
Lantern LV4 Artifact + Moth LV5 book study
Forge's Redemption
Summit (Mansus)

I'm going to presume we all agree on the Summit for the mansus action. We're higher than anyone else, to not explore there would be wasting the advantage.

Among these major option, I'm arguing that FR is a necessity now rather than later. We CAN'T go on at a 2 health max anymore. Any single wound is going to cripple us and our current AND future plans immensely since we'll get more risk averse and let things go to avoid Dancing with Death again. Wounds cost us money, and up to the end of the NEXT TURN to heal and get back on track. We need health if only to give us some leeway in being efficient instead of survival.

That locks roughly 6 of our actions in on:
DoA Sacrament x 3
Friends FO
Family FO
Forge's Redemption

So what else is relevant?
If we're ever going to commit to our SH sacrament, we should do at least 1 while the opportunity is ripe and takes advantage of our current buffs. And yet I also want to study that Lantern 4 artifact now to open up options.

I know people are highly against it, but we CAN put off Luna's Training until next turn. It provides no immediate benefits to what we need this turn nor takes advantage of our current buffs. This allows us to use one of our FO in our Social action, freeing up two actions while giving us a lot of leeway.

Thoughts?

 

[Shaper47]

Thoughts?

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People are being way too optimisic about Midday Dew. Let's see how it goes but I doubt it will be that useful. If we actually wanted to go down that path we should have taken him as a gift from our son.

Growing our relationship with Cadance is a better priority.

SH sacrament now is very important. More them Forge's Redemption, more then reading our Moth book, more then studying artifacts and more then training Selene. It's time sensitive and none of the other stuff is.

It might be better to explore Ash then visit the Summit. Ash is safe for us while the Summit has unknown dangers. Besides doing it with an SH influence means we could find cool stuff.

 

[Nevermort]

I know people are highly against it, but we CAN put off Luna's Training until next turn. It provides no immediate benefits to what we need this turn nor takes advantage of our current buffs. This allows us to use one of our FO in our Social action, freeing up two actions while giving us a lot of leeway.

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Selena waited for this lesson and she is supposed to regularly check on Celestia in the background. We should not delay resolving Celestia issue.

SH sacrament now is very important. More them Forge's Redemption, more then reading our Moth book, more then studying artifacts and more then training Selene. It's time sensitive and none of the other stuff is.

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I know why Moth book is time sensitive. But why SH sacrament is time sensitive?

 

[Pittauro]

There is no Cadance FO, QM said she gets rolled in with Friends.

Training Luna can also be done with Free Social, I just remembered, so that's an AP freed up for something.

We don't even necessarily need the Level 7 Book in 3 Turns, we have a Knock Book we can toss her way to extend her summon once more.
But to be clear I absolutely do not want to wait that long to locate the Level 7 Book.

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You mean Family FO because Cadance falls under the Friends FO.

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Yeah, sorry, meant family.

I'm basically counting the free social as an 8th ap, as that's effectively what it is. There's multiple social actions we're interested in anyway.

As for lvl 7 book technically not necessary in 3 turns... TRUE, but between saving a lvl 5 book and the not-zero chance of us having to be ready for All In Expedition in 3 turns (in the worst case scenario of Celestia getting 1 lantern level per turn) I'll behave as if we HAD to get it by then.

I want Heart 4 too.

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If we can find the scraps, sure.

Thinking about it, I may actually make a plan like this
Friends FO
Family FO
2 SH sacraments
4 Axe

Might be a touch risky, but if we could pull it off it would free up so much. We'd have two Sacraments, a friendly Axe, and we would be free to use Baldomare for anything next turn without the arguments about using Baldomare's influence to complete the sacrament. I do wish there was a way to boost it further.
I don't think Ourladyofwires ever answered if we could use reagents for it which means probably no. It would make some narrative sense because we gained the ability and lore level from Velvet in a different history, but from a mechanical perspective I get why the answer may be no.

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The idea is that it should take less than 4 actions to do Axe, so we can rollover extra APs on SH Sacrament.

Also keep in mind that we CAN fail SH attempts, it's not a sure-pass.

and of course we want to train Selene too...



In any case, I think basically everyone agrees on at least

4 Axe Sacrament
Friends FO
Family FO

That leaves the last 2. Maybe we could do ONE SH and Selene? That way we'll see if we still have the reroll for the third attempt later (assuming Knock Sacrament has leftover APs...)

though...

...what if we had Velvet SEARCH for a ritual site with her +40 from SH Influence? Or for expedition sites?

problem is mostly that she just has SO MANY THINGS SHE COULD DO...

Lantern LV4 Artifact + Moth LV5 book study

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Or Lantern + Winter Artifacts, and we leave the lvl 5 moth book for another turn. I'd rather NOT split the study action between book and artifacts if possible, it's inefficient.

That locks roughly 6 of our actions in on:
DoA Sacrament x 3
Friends FO
Family FO
Forge's Redemption

So what else is relevant?
If we're ever going to commit to our SH sacrament, we should do at least 1 while the opportunity is ripe and takes advantage of our current buffs. And yet I also want to study that Lantern 4 artifact now to open up options.

I know people are highly against it, but we CAN put off Luna's Training until next turn. It provides no immediate benefits to what we need this turn nor takes advantage of our current buffs. This allows us to use one of our FO in our Social action, freeing up two actions while giving us a lot of leeway.

Thoughts?

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I think I'd be fine with the 6 you mention. add Selene and 1 SH sacrament action, maybe?

or, again, just put 4 DoA Sacrament actions to be super-certain instead...

Growing our relationship with Cadance is a better priority.

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sure, but we're doing that anyway as well.

SH sacrament now is very important. More them Forge's Redemption, more then reading our Moth book, more then studying artifacts and more then training Selene. It's time sensitive and none of the other stuff is.

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I think Selene's training is about as time sensitive, but I agree with the other examples.

Once her training is finished I'm expecting her to start working on Daybreaker, basically.

 

[spiderhellian]

Selene gets so much stronger once she's level 4. In addition to the narrative consequences. I would strongly like to do it this turn, in preparation for BtRC3 next turn.

(Assuming Axe is around!)

 

[Shaper47]

I know why Moth book is time sensitive. But why SH sacrament is time sensitive?

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Because of our SH influence and how Baldomare actions are important for our lantern sacrament.

If we can find the scraps, sure.

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It's not that hard to get the books. There only 30 bits per scrap.

I think Selene's training is about as time sensitive, but I agree with the other examples.

Once her training is finished I'm expecting her to start working on Daybreaker, basically.

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I'm pretty sure she not going to be able to deal with Daybreaker before she gets enough lantern to see us. But if that's a priority we can just have her train more in future turns.

 

[Greymere]

...what if we had Velvet SEARCH for a ritual site with her +40 from SH Influence? Or for expedition sites?

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Oooh. I like this actually. We need a better ritual site, because a three-circle ritual site means that we can summon Mares (and other things, eventually, hopefully) and Jade can do RotT without figuring out if we want to risk either suspicion or Rarity's career. Being able to summon Mares means being able to summon meatshields for All In and Baldomare's Lantern Sacrament, as well as serving as either generally-okay actions since I imagine they have like a +20 general bonus or as fodder for Velvet AP. And with the Lantern artifact, both DoA and Selene would be able to summon one from scratch trivially, and Jade with some more effort, even if we don't get/keep the Frangiclave.

Also for the inevitable Forge Name summoning, seeing as we're almost certainly exploring the Malleary this turn.

Or Lantern + Winter Artifacts, and we leave the lvl 5 moth book for another turn. I'd rather NOT split the study action between book and artifacts if possible, it's inefficient.

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Yeah, the Moth 5 book needs to happen either when we have a Lantern Influence or can dedicate an entire study action to it. It's got a -50 penalty, which is actually higher than our base modifier without AotL, even when taking the SH artifact's effect into account.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

People are being way too optimisic about Midday Dew. Let's see how it goes but I doubt it will be that useful. If we actually wanted to go down that path we should have taken him as a gift from our son.

Growing our relationship with Cadance is a better priority.

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I mostly agree with this. Midday Dew is unlikely to get us much, but I think we can at least get information out of it even if nothing else. Cadance has the most potential right now to further get us actions.

(It also occurs to me that Cadance hasn't seen us with a Grail influence since Turn 15. Given what happened back then, that will be fun.)

SH sacrament now is very important. More them Forge's Redemption, more then reading our Moth book, more then studying artifacts and more then training Selene. It's time sensitive and none of the other stuff is.

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I'm certain in my thoughts on Forge's Redemption, but I am leaning towards heavy SH Sacrament focus right now. We can't have Moth LV5 fire off for probably two more turns anyways, but I've also heard discussion about Selene potentially scrying for the LV7 book. If we commit to the artifact only with both halfs of a study action, then we can possibly have Selene scry for the book this turn with the same level of power as Jade with a Reagent (Alicorn). Tough call here...

It might be better to explore Ash then visit the Summit. Ash is safe for us while the Summit has unknown dangers. Besides doing it with an SH influence means we could find cool stuff.

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This may be preferable if only for safety right now. I wouldn't mind Ash.

 

[Pittauro]

It's not that hard to get the books. There only 30 bits per scrap.

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IF we find them.

Remember, it's random, even if Heart is more likely than other lores.

Oooh. I like this actually. We need a better ritual site, because a three-circle ritual site means that we can summon Mares (and other things, eventually, hopefully) and Jade can do RotT without figuring out if we want to risk either suspicion or Rarity's career. Being able to summon Mares means being able to summon meatshields for All In and Baldomare's Lantern Sacrament, as well as serving as either generally-okay actions since I imagine they have like a +20 general bonus or as fodder for Velvet AP. And with the Lantern artifact, both DoA and Selene would be able to summon one from scratch trivially, and Jade with some more effort, even if we don't get/keep the Frangiclave.

Also for the inevitable Forge Name summoning, seeing as we're almost certainly exploring the Malleary this turn.

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I'm just annoyed because I'm so SURE that there's a ritual site at the end of canterlot part 3... but of course the very earliest we can do it is next turn, and we might not even be ready depending on what else we have to do...

We'd probably have the beats, but possibly not the people to send...

 

[Greymere]

This may be preferable if only for safety right now. I wouldn't mind Ash.

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While I would still like to explore the Summit, exploring the Wastes with a SH Influence running wouldn't be that bad of an idea either, since we know from exploring the Blank Plains that if we get twice the DC of the area, we find two locations at once (can you confirm @OurLadyOfWires?). So considering we're Moth 4 (+40), Secret Histories 4 (+20), and we'd be running a +40 Influence (total of +100)... it'd probably be pretty easy to find the last two areas in the Wastes in a single go.

Maybe we'd even find a Moth scrap

 

[Nevermort]

Because of our SH influence and how Baldomare actions are important for our lantern sacrament.

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But SH Sacrament by itself is not priority. Would be nice if we get it now, but if not then nothing terrible happens, unlike if we are too late with Moth sacrament.

 

[Solace2117]

The idea is that it should take less than 4 actions to do Axe, so we can rollover extra APs on SH Sacrament.

Also keep in mind that we CAN fail SH attempts, it's not a sure-pass.

and of course we want to train Selene too...

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I'm fully aware, I'm saying it may be more efficient to switch them, and attempt SH first because as was pointed out, if we succeed it gives us SH 5 for Axe's action, plus 4 attempts. If we fail or use the reroll and don't want to risk further we can, but in that we should stop and just focus on Axe.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I say FR is a must. Two Wounds is holding us back from doing Edge Sacrament, forces us to bail at the first bit of pain on any Expeditions, and holds Velvet back from understanding herself. With three Wounds we could have a profitable Turn 22 of studying things and engaging in mortal struggle with Biedde for a Sacrament, for example.

 

[Shaper47]

Selene gets so much stronger once she's level 4. In addition to the narrative consequences. I would strongly like to do it this turn, in preparation for BtRC3 next turn.

(Assuming Axe is around!)

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Going by the great plan of

Friends FO
Family FO
2 SH sacraments
4 Axe

Maybe if we finish Axe early we'll have a free AP to spend on it?

It's either train Selene which is pretty great.

Forge's Redemption, finally. We could also show it off to Cadance and Selene.

Read Moth book, take advantage of our free Aotl for a Lantern Aotl. (+55 -50 = 5). Get a total of 85 with 3 rolls and a reroll.

Study lantern artifact, also take advantage of our free Aotl for a Lantern Aotl. (90 -55 = 35). Beat a DC of 35 with two rolls and a reroll.

 

[Pittauro]

I'm fully aware, I'm saying it may be more efficient to switch them, and attempt SH first because as was pointed out, if we succeed it gives us SH 5 for Axe's action, plus 4 attempts. If we fail or use the reroll and don't want to risk further we can, but in that we should stop and just focus on Axe.

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but CAN we just refuse to do the second SH attempt if we used the reroll?

Thus far we only got a chance to drop a risky action when we got to 1 Health.

@OurLadyOfWires would you allow us to drop the last SH sacrament action IF we had used the reroll during the first one? Or would we be committed by then?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

While I would still like to explore the Summit, exploring the Wastes with a SH Influence running wouldn't be that bad of an idea either, since we know from exploring the Blank Plains that if we get twice the DC of the area, we find two locations at once (can you confirm @OurLadyOfWires?). So considering we're Moth 4 (+40), Secret Histories 4 (+20), and we'd be running a +40 Influence (total of +100)... it'd probably be pretty easy to find the last two areas in the Wastes in a single go.

Maybe we'd even find a Moth scrap

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Or we go searching for our Outsider Juicer with our Mansus exploration. Unless we think we'll be running into the Lionsmith Name there, in which case we absolutely need three Wounds before we try and find that. Downsides of having Biedde in our employ.