Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Sveta08]

Your reaching here.

We have absolutely no proof it's Harmony that has protected the world.

It's far more likely it's some old Wards set up by the Hours.

Wards Harmony has been sabotaging.

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Really? I'm reaching? In four lines you made three assumptions based off nothing.
You wish you were right.

. I'll have to look around the Wake for a little bit, but I can tell at a glance that things are... different, than they were back then. I won't say that they were simpler, quite on the contrary, but at least it was a system that I was used to. But now? Well, the fact that the Wake still exists shows us that something must have put a ward in place, or taken some action about it.

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Tell me. If this was a ward of the Hours, wouldn't it be a system that Baldomare was familiar with? Isn't it something she would be able to see? If the ward was established by an Hour, wouldn't it be lore coded?
Here. I can make baseless claims too.

You are reaching here.

We have absolutely no proof it is a ward from the Hours that has protected the world.

It's fare more likely it's an unknown protection set up by Harmony.

A protection the Wolves have been gnawing at.



Give me some evidence of your claim.

 

[Pororurin]

Actually, I'm curious as to what caused you to be so Anti-Harmony Shaper. From how I understood what was occurring in-text, Harmony hasn't particularly seemed malevolent, or controlling. Like, what was the inciting incident/event that made you decide that Harmony was something to be avoided?

The only real "negative" I can see coming from Harmony is the Woods being taken over by the Dreamlands, and this bit is my opinion, but I don't think it would have necessarily been a bad thing, in the sense that it would be the Wake reflecting on the Mansus. That's pure conjecture, however, so I can see how, fueled by Velvet's perspective as an Adept it could be seen as a terrible thing.

Other than that however,,,, I can't really point to any one event in which Harmony has been seen acting controlling, or act in a "if I can;t have it no one can" way as you claim. (Although that may be my poor memory.) Many of your Harmony is Bad claims appear unfounded to me, so I am curious as to the logic behind your thoughts. I say this as a Harmony advocate, although I am willing to be swayed.

(I joined the quest relatively recently, so if you've already explained this sorry, lol)

 

[Greymere]

Unrelated to the current "talking to a brick wall", but I had an idea regarding the Level 7 book. Possibly a terrible idea. But.

I wonder if we could find a Level 7 book in the Royal Library. There's probably some really old stuff in there, right?

We'd have to sneak in, and I assume stealing a book from the Royal Library would probably end up being an expedition. And it would probably go terribly if it went wrong.

But on the other hand, we have quite a lot of Moth between Velvet, Selene, and Biedde (total of +55 after Selene teaching, which would go up to +105 w/ DoA's expedition bonus, or +40/+90 w/o Biedde), and we could always call a Moth Influence just to be sure.

Is that a possibility, @OurLadyOfWires?

Edit: Also the reason I am assuming stealing rather than, say, us just getting permission from Cadance to go in and find and take one at our leisure is that I kiiind of assume we wouldn't be allowed to just. Permanently take books out of the Royal Library. But if we can, that would be much easier, especially since we're probably going to be carrying around another max SH Influence next turn anyway, for SH Sacrament purposes. (pretty please?)

 

[Bakkasama]

Unrelated to the current "talking to a brick wall", but I had an idea regarding the Level 7 book. Possibly a terrible idea. But.

I wonder if we could find a Level 7 book in the Royal Library. There's probably some really old stuff in there, right?

We'd have to sneak in, and I assume stealing a book from the Royal Library would probably end up being an expedition. And it would probably go terribly if it went wrong.

But on the other hand, we have quite a lot of Moth between Velvet, Selene, and Biedde (total of +55 after Selene teaching, which would go up to +105 w/ DoA's expedition bonus, or +40/+90 w/o Biedde), and we could always call a Moth Influence just to be sure.

Is that a possibility, @OurLadyOfWires?

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Or we could visit it and check the index under "L" for lore. MLP is silly enough for it to work, though it would probably give us MLP lore instead of Cultist Simulator lores.

 

[Pororurin]

I wonder if we could find a Level 7 book in the Royal Library. There's probably some really old stuff in there, right?

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On the one hand, it would be very funny if it works. On the other, Level 7 books are things that were considered occult in Baldo's time (I think), so,,, realistically, not gonna happen.

But then again, if we really wanted to know if the Royal Library has a L7 book, we could always ask Celestia! She's old, and trusting, and 100% mentally stable, she would love to help us! I'm sure of it!

 

[Greymere]

On the one hand, it would be very funny if it works. On the other, Level 7 books are things that were considered occult in Baldo's time (I think), so,,, realistically, not gonna happen.

But then again, if we really wanted to know if the Royal Library has a L7 book, we could always ask Celestia! She's old, and trusting, and 100% mentally stable, she would love to help us! I'm sure of it!

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I don't think Celestia has the context to even understand what a Lore 7 book would be

But nah, I was more thinking that there might be stuff in there allllll the way in the back from like, Starswirl's time, since he seems to have been an adept. I don't think it's that far of a stretch considering that we know that Celestia has a Lantern 6 artifact in her possession (the Watchman's Glass, aka the mirror that Eclipse is using) and also multiple Level 5 artifacts (since we could have asked for one of any Lore as a reward for helping with the Luna Search). So I don't think it would be too surprising to find out that she has a Level 7 book tucked away in some dusty corner, especially if we're approaching the search with a giant SH modifier.

Edit: By the way @spiderhellian, what do you think about that Baldomare omake you wrote before (with her having the Lantern Heirloom) now that we know that she's bleeding out her light?

 

[spiderhellian]

of assume we wouldn't be allowed to just. Permanently take books out of the Royal Library

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We just need it for a little bit! We'll give it back, and the book will be fine! Just don't look at any of the empty pages inside!

 

[Pororurin]

I didn't even consider that Starswirl could have been an adept, or the other stuff you mentioned. Despite all that though, I still doubt that the Royal Library has anything that could be Level 7, primarily because my understanding of a Level 7 book is that it's something that Calyptra would have Opinions™ on, or at the very least something that adepts who reach the tricuspid would go "wait a second, that's new" to. All of which is to say, it probably wouldn't be that easy.

Honestly, we'd probably find only L4 and L5 books considering how the Watchman's Glass seems to be, functionally, the highest rank artifact Celestia has access to. From the vibes, at least. I'd put my money on a L7 book being in the final Canterlot Caverns expedition though. Just a hunch.

 

[spiderhellian]

Edit: By the way @spiderhellian, what do you think about that Baldomare omake you wrote before (with her having the Lantern Heirloom) now that we know that she's bleeding out her light?

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Huh, good question.

I'm not sure how much it changes? I totally buy Sveta's theory. I do think she still has the heirloom.

What are you thinking? That the heirloom might be involved in her whole process somehow?

I'm not sure about that… I feel we could get a Lantern Sacrament and probably the Heirloom without befriending her, and vice versa.

 

[Greymere]

Huh, good question.

I'm not sure how much it changes? I totally buy Sveta's theory. I do think she still has the heirloom.

What are you thinking? That the heirloom might be involved in her whole process somehow?

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Mostly I suspect that she may be using the Lantern Heirloom's light to sustain her own existence.

 

[DelightedOne]

Mostly I suspect that she may be using the Lantern Heirloom's light to sustain her own existence.

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Huh, that makes sense. I thought the Heirloom could be involved in that wound(by draining Baldomare like a mirror that takes light instead of reflecting it) but she could be using it to keep herself alive(and Illopony in the Plains).

If that also means she would give the Heirloom to Velvet after she is healed... we really need that Level 7 book.

 

[spiderhellian]

Mostly I suspect that she may be using the Lantern Heirloom's light to sustain her own existence.

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Hm, to replace the light that's constantly draining out of her wound? Does seem possible, though I'm not sure. It's the last remnant of something important, I'm not sure if Baldomare would allow herself to devour that knowledge. At least not yet.

If that also means she would give the Heirloom to Velvet after she is healed... we really need that Level 7 book.

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And this is also part of why I'm not sure? The heirloom feels more likely to be Sacrament-locked than friendship-locked? And I'd be a little surprised if it was locked behind both? But it is imaginable.

No strong confidence in any of this, really.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Didnt...

I cant find the post, but... didnt i say that omake was canon except for two words? I thought everyone understood that Baldomare didnt have that, and that he had edited that omake to reflect that.

I dont have time to check it right now, but am i gonna have to de-canon it or something? I thought we had all understood that omake had a rather critical (for the sake of canon) mistake on it.

 

[Greymere]

Didnt...

I cant find the post, but... didnt i say that omake was canon except for two words? I thought everyone understood that Baldomare didnt have that, and that he had edited that omake to reflect that.

I dont have time to check it right now, but am i gonna have to de-canon it or something? I thought we had all understood that omake had a rather critical (for the sake of canon) mistake on it.

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I think mostly you weren't very clear on what those two words were, and people thought that the error was in specifying the Watchman rather than it being about the Lantern Heirloom overall

I may be misremembering though.

 

[spiderhellian]

I dont have time to check it right now, but am i gonna have to de-canon it or something?

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Oh I must have misinterpreted.

I was thinking that uh, Baldomare has the heirloom, but it was some other thing than the "Watchman's Heirloom".

Might have just been on me.

And I didn't edit the Omake, but I can do that!

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I think mostly you weren't very clear on what those two words were, and people thought that the error was in specifying the Watchman rather than it being about the Lantern Heirloom overall

I may be misremembering though.

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I mean. If "Watchman's Heirloom" are the two incorrect words, then it means it isnt a heirloom, and that it doesnt belong to the Watchman.

It would be mighty petty of me to say that and instead mean that "its not the Watchman's Heirloom, it is the Watchpony's Pocketwatch "

And come on. Of course i was cryptic. I HAVE to be cryptic. Giving you guys the final answer might make you happy on the short term, but it robs you of the true joy of figuring out a mystery. And that joy is the entire point of a mystery story.

Oh I must have misinterpreted.

I was thinking that uh, Baldomare has the heirloom, but it was some other thing than the "Watchman's Heirloom".

Might have just been on me.

And I didn't edit the Omake, but I can do that!

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You dont have to edit it if you dont want to. I just dont want to have to deal with frustration that arose from expectations i never built up to begin with. But really, its fine.

Anyhow, gotta skaddle. Hope you are all doing well.

 

[spiderhellian]

Hahahaha, I do appreciate the crypticness, it leaves so much more to speculate on!

I think it's just my bad at not properly grokking it here, then perpetuating that misinformation

Hope you're doing well too.

 

[jelloloaf]

I think it's just my bad at not properly grokking it here, then perpetuating that misinformation

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Nothing to worry about, misinformation is a critical part of the cultist lifecycle. After being inducted into a cult by way of misinformation, they go on to come up with insane theories of their own and then further spread them to produce more cultists. Completely natural.

 

[Maer]

Hey @OurLadyOfWires , if it isn't an imposition, how do you determine the difficulty of various actions? The DC's or breakthrough points? It primarily just getting a feeling for how difficult an action should be, or is there a specific system you use for it?

I find myself struggling to stay balanced in my own attempts, so I was hoping for some advice. :3

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

This is why I don't often read Omake unless they are from the GM, to much chance of misremembering a critical piece of information.

 

[Shaper47]

Really? I'm reaching? In four lines you made three assumptions based off nothing.

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I ask you for evidence, for anything at all to back your claims and you provide nothing.

Reaching is being polite.

Give me some evidence of your claim.

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You mean aside from the fact the lores are known as the principles that protect the world in comparison to how the Harmony's light is known to endanger it.

Despite the timeline not matching up for Harmony to have created the Wards.

Sure,

The Will of the Woods mentioned the wards briefly when thinking about the current state of lore important places.

You know not about the status of the wards,

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So we know for sure that the Wards were originally created by the lores.

A protection the Wolves have been gnawing at.

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How delusional can you be?

The Wolves protect the world.

Actually, I'm curious as to what caused you to be so Anti-Harmony Shaper

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It's more the thousand years of torture Luna suffered because of Harmony and then what Harmony did next.

Locking away Luna's memories was basically Harmony going "And I'll fucking to it again.".

Not only does it cruelly set up Luna do think it's her own fault and blame herself but it leaves her vulnerable to being worm-consumed again.

That and the lack of seeing Harmony care about protecting the world in comparison to other powers.

But nah, I was more thinking that there might be stuff in there allllll the way in the back from like, Starswirl's time, since he seems to have been an adept.

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Unlikely, didn't he write down in that book we got that he was storing all the lore stuff beneath the castle.

 

[Maer]

Eh… Harmony didn't send Luna to the moon, or invest her with Worms. Luna got tricked herself by Worm cleverness, and Celestia is the one that used Harmony to send her to the moon. I doubt Glory wanted to be sealed away by the Forge Of Days, but it couldn't stop her from using its power to do the sealing. So I don't think Harmony is any more capable of preventing Celestia from using the Elements however she wants, other than making her no longer qualify as worthy of using them. The moment a NEW group of Harmony aligned individuals tried to use Harmony to cure her, the Worm was burned out and her trauma sealed away.

As for the trauma… Harmony has Laughter, Kindness, Honesty, Loyalty, Magic, and Generosity. Of those, Laughter is the closest to helping with mental trauma, and it isn't exactly specialized as a cure, so much as prevention. Without Winter, Luna couldn't have so easily handled those memories. It seems locking them away was the only and best option Harmony had to deal with the problem.

Also, Harmony doesn't have a Moth equivalent. Its light burns away Worms, and that's both its only weapon, and the only defense it knew of- until it encountered the Lores. So I think it isn't TRYING to harm the world, so much as… it doesn't really have any good options that could actually help hide or protect the world the way the Lores and Glory do.

Lack of ability and lack of options. Harmony cares about protecting the world, but the only option it HAS for that is to strengthen the light that it knows hurts the Worms. Which draws more in, but what other option does Harmony have? Before the Lores became known… it didn't really have any alternatives.

And if Celestia obsessing over Lore has ANY Harmony involved instead of being purely her own psychosis, then it would seem that Harmony is VERY eager to learn about these other options.

 

[DelightedOne]

Celestia is the one that used Harmony to send her to the moon.

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Thank you for giving me the chance to repeat that Celestia only sent Luna to the moon because she didn't know about the Worms, so she thought Luna really went crazy and needed to be stopped instead of exorcised.

If she ever finds out about it the guilt for banishing Luna will be 1000 times worse.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

How delusional can you be?

The Wolves protect the world.

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Sorry, you mean unconsciously protect the world, right? Because the worms might not go after a wolf-ridden world, but the wolves absolutely want to make the world a worse place and even potentially destroy it. Protection isn't in their nature.

 

[Shaper47]

Sorry, you mean unconsciously protect the world, right?

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The Wolves proactively protect the world.

It might be because the Father needs the world not wormed as it would interfere with his plans to have a dying but never dead world.

It might be because the will of the Mother is to protect the world.

Either way the world is protected by the Wolves*.

*Some side effects may occur but better a dark and tragic world then no world at all.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

The Wolves proactively protect the world.

It might be because the Father needs the world not wormed as it would interfere with his plans to have a dying but never dead world.

It might be because the will of the Mother is to protect the world.

Either way the world is protected by the Wolves*.

*Some side effects may occur but better a dark and tragic world then no world at all.

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The Wolf-Divided does not want a dying but never dead world. The Wolf-Divided wants a dead world. So that he himself can be dead. It's just that his prime instrument of Velvet would never let her loved ones die and will chokeslam Wolf-power into making sure that never occurs, leaving a horrifically mangled Wake on life-support. If the Wolf had his way the Wake, the Mansus, and his self would all finally just die and end his torment.

 

[Solace2117]

The Wolves proactively protect the world.

It might be because the Father needs the world not wormed as it would interfere with his plans to have a dying but never dead world.

It might be because the will of the Mother is to protect the world.

Either way the world is protected by the Wolves*.

*Some side effects may occur but better a dark and tragic world then no world at all.

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Once again you ascribe intent, without much evidence. Nothing we've been shown implies the Wolf Divided cares. It simply hates. The Sons as by products of Velvet and the Wolf, may hold some form of "care" for Velvet and potentially Soft Sweeps, but that is subjective.

There's no real evidence that the wolves actively protect the World. It's just as likely that they hate the light and actively snuff it out. As a side effect the Worms are no longer drawn to the world. Like moths towards light, when you turn it off they have nothing to be drawn towards.

 

[Shaper47]

Snip

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You misunderstand, when I say "it would interfere with his plans to have a dying but never dead world." I mean having a dying but never dead world would interfere with his plans.

Sorry about that the wording was kinda unclear there.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

As a side effect the Worms are no longer drawn to the world. Like moths towards light, when you turn it off they have nothing to be drawn towards.

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Well they'll still have Glory to be drawn towards, unless you think the Wolves can strike down even that.

You misunderstand, when I say "it would interfere with his plans to have a dying but never dead world." I mean having a dying but never dead world would interfere with his plans.

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Ah, my mistake.

 

[Solace2117]

Well they'll still have Glory to be drawn towards, unless you think the Wolves can strike down even that.

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I mean that's implied to an extent. It wouldn't be a victory condition if the worms were still a threat. The lights are snuffed out so that the Worms don't come.