Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

This would be a massive waste of bits, imo. If we want to kill Copper, send DoA or Biedde (once we have him) after her.

Also remember that we still need to locate (and retrieve) our manuscripts.

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It's not that easy. Killing Copper I think would work out as an expedition, If I understand it right. a ritual is faster and less risky to ourselves.

Also, people, don't forget that Jade exists. We could get an extra RotT out of her if we've got the money.

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True, it's just that for the Frangiclave we'd likely want to use our best (so Baldomare).

Jade... I imagine we'd have her work on the Memory of Light? Unless we have something to scry specifically, like maybe an expedition site or shop with a lvl 5 or 6 lore book (ideally 6, and I'd take expedition over buying personally).

You mean like I suggested we do before trying to merc her ?

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EXACTLY!

hey, in my defense we didn't know it was the Master!

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Look we have a Marinette AP free next turn just throw her at the issue of getting us a cease fire.

And if you really want to kill her just send Ash in. No muss, no fuss.

 

[Greymere]

It's not that easy. Killing Copper I think would work out as an expedition, If I understand it right. a ritual is faster and less risky to ourselves.

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It's also a lot less likely to actually work considering she has the Winter Name on call, and if we're going to be spending 80 bits on trying to kill Copper again it better fucking stick this time.

Jade... I imagine we'd have her work on the Memory of Light? Unless we have something to scry specifically, like maybe an expedition site or shop with a lvl 5 or 6 lore book (ideally 6, and I'd take expedition over buying personally).

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Manuscripts. You know, that massive landmine that is just begging for us to get in trouble if people keep ignoring that it's actually a rather serious problem that they're still out and about. Especially if Copper has them (looking at you, people who want to threaten her into a ceasefire).

 

[angelsadvocate666]

True, it's just that for the Frangiclave we'd likely want to use our best (so Baldomare).

Jade... I imagine we'd have her work on the Memory of Light? Unless we have something to scry specifically, like maybe an expedition site or shop with a lvl 5 or 6 lore book (ideally 6, and I'd take expedition over buying personally).

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I was thinking putting her on the book scrying, yes. Look for a 5+ book, then it can be either buying or an expedition, whichever Bird decides, and we can go from there.

I do want the Memory, but it can technically wait for now. Nothing is really depending on it yet.

Manuscripts would also work I guess.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Memory is also kinda useless beyond being a curiosity thing. We're locked in on Glory now after all

 

[spiderhellian]

Look we have a Marinette AP free next turn just throw her at the issue of getting us a cease fire.

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We could use her to get ourselves a Confidant! One AP to bring a friend to Good Friend and then a Leash. Having Filthy Rich as Confidant would be useful, or worst case a fine Moth sacrifice.

 

[DelightedOne]

Jade... I imagine we'd have her work on the Memory of Light?

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Yes, please. It feels like such a waste to throw 2 Nat 100 away like that(again) AND she can do ritual research in Velvet's place so it is not like it wouldn't work.

Seeker Jade could do it better so we should use the free social action to upgrade her lore levels.

 

[Zxzx24]

It's not that easy. Killing Copper I think would work out as an expedition, If I understand it right. a ritual is faster and less risky to ourselves.

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We dint even know if she is still alive or not. She got hit by two Nightmare rituals back to back.

Or maybe she found some kind of occult defense like we did! Wouldn't that be funny.

EXACTLY!

hey, in my defense we didn't know it was the Master!

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To be fair I suggested looking before shooting

 

[Greymere]

We dint even know if she is still alive or not. She got hit by two Nightmare rituals back to back.

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She was alive enough to contest Baldomare's summoning, it seems. Whether she's mentally stable may be more debatable otoh. Especially with Paranoia running around.

Edit: I wonder how much chaos Mareinette could cause if we sent her to sow discord in Copper's cult around now? Between Paranoia, a potentially unstable leader, and now the sudden and (to them) inexplicable destruction of the Woods along with the wolves...

 

[DelightedOne]

: I wonder how much chaos Mareinette could cause if we sent her to sow discord in Copper's cult around now? Between Paranoia, a potentially unstable leader, and now the sudden and (to them) inexplicable destruction of the Woods along with the wolves...

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Why not just ask her to grab our manuscripts then? If she is close enough to sow discord she could just charm somepony to steal them for us.

 

[Greymere]

Why not just ask her to grab our manuscripts then? If she is close enough to sow discord she could just charm somepony to steal them for us.

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If they're actually with Copper's cult, then yeah, I could see her swiping them on the side while she's there to cause chaos. We don't actually know if they're there, though, or if e.g. Windy has them, Copper is holding on to them personally instead of keeping it in the cult proper, or some secret third option (random McCultist took them and is using them to secretly found their own cult? They were actually destroyed in the Wildhoof Club fire? Etc). Which is why I want to scry them, so we can deal with them before they become a problem.

 

[Zxzx24]

I do recall that omake? Bird wrote about mareinette capturing Copper.

And this website does allow that kind of horror.

 

[DelightedOne]

If they're actually with Copper's cult, then yeah, I could see her swiping them on the side while she's there to cause chaos. We don't actually know if they're there, though, or if e.g. Windy has them, Copper is holding on to them personally instead of keeping it in the cult proper, or some secret third option (random McCultist took them and is using them to secretly found their own cult? They were actually destroyed in the Wildhoof Club fire? Etc). Which is why I want to scry them, so we can deal with them before they become a problem.

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I'm pretty sure the originals(the ones that are Evidence against Velvet) are with Copper since she inherited the bulk of the Cult from the Master, Windy just ran away to work on his project.

 

[Greymere]

I'm pretty sure the originals(the ones that are Evidence against Velvet) are with Copper since she inherited the bulk of the Cult from the Master, Windy just ran away to work on his project.

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It's likely, sure, but we don't know. And we'd need to find out where they're being kept anyway, since it's not like we know where the Manehattan cult building (or buildings, since they apparently have enough capital to also own a warehouse for prisoners) is.

 

[DelightedOne]

So we scrying for the manuscripts? One more on the list I guess.

 

[Greymere]

So we scrying for the manuscripts? One more on the list I guess.

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That's the idea I was aiming for, yes.

 

[Zxzx24]

She was alive enough to contest Baldomare's summoning, it seems. Whether she's mentally stable may be more debatable otoh. Especially with Paranoia running around.

Edit: I wonder how much chaos Mareinette could cause if we sent her to sow discord in Copper's cult around now? Between Paranoia, a potentially unstable leader, and now the sudden and (to them) inexplicable destruction of the Woods along with the wolves...

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It seemed like she was the one who attacked us earlier as well no?

The wider cult also has access to Baldomares summoning ritual.

And I pointed out earlier that the Baldomare had plenty of time to arrange her own summoning while she was setting up the Manehattan branch. If she wanted to.

 

[Greymere]

It seemed like she was the one who attacked us earlier as well no?

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Tbh it just feels like it'd be too convenient for us to have one of the few people who could definitively link us to the cult to just drop dead with barely any effort from us. But I suppose the dice could have been in a funny mood.

Edit: That being said, regardless of Copper's aliveness status, I still want to prioritize recovering the manuscripts over conducting new murder plots.

 

[DelightedOne]

It seemed like she was the one who attacked us earlier as well no?

The wider cult also has access to Baldomares summoning ritual.

And I pointed out earlier that the Baldomare had plenty of time to arrange her own summoning while she was setting up the Manehattan branch. If she wanted to.

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Copper IS alive, we got confirmation from Bird she would be one of our obstacles.

 

[Zxzx24]

Tbh it just feels like it'd be too convenient for us to have one of the few people who could definitively link us to the cult to just drop dead with barely any effort from us. But I suppose the dice could have been in a funny mood.

Edit: That being said, regardless of Copper's aliveness status, I still want to prioritize recovering the manuscripts over conducting new murder plots.

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I have a hard time seeing that as a priority. Truth be told.

 

[Pittauro]

And if you really want to kill her just send Ash in. No muss, no fuss.

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keep in mind we still don't know for sure how Ash works.

It's also a lot less likely to actually work considering she has the Winter Name on call, and if we're going to be spending 80 bits on trying to kill Copper again it better fucking stick this time.

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not necessarily? Winter isn't good to defend against Winter, and thus far all the Names we know of could only use the same rituals we know of.

Neighnia defending Copper requires her to have such a power, like DoA's wrong keys, or Mareinette's "replace Velvet". And usually each Name seems to have only one such power (that they show to us, at least).

Except the Master, because he was THE Master and was "out of their stupor" and an actual player.

Manuscripts. You know, that massive landmine that is just begging for us to get in trouble if people keep ignoring that it's actually a rather serious problem that they're still out and about. Especially if Copper has them (looking at you, people who want to threaten her into a ceasefire).

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what would Jade even do about the Manuscripts? She can't steal them, we can't burn them at a distance with a ritual...

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wait a second... what if we started developing a ritual meant to destroy items at a distance, just like we have ones that can kill or have people go crazy?

I'd say Knock + Forge. Knock to reach them, and Forge to burn them. And then we target "every manuscript Velvet wrote for the Cult of her own horn", or whatever definition would include those without including, books in our home or stuff we wrote for our jobs (present and past)

@OurLadyOfWires from past experience making the scrying ritual, how long do we think it would take us to make a ritual like this? What does Jade think about it?

Memory is also kinda useless beyond being a curiosity thing. We're locked in on Glory now after all

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I still think it can be relevant, as in we can get something out of it.

Exploring the Tower of the Moon will likely lead to lore knowledge. Memory of Light will likely lead to understanding Harmony and maybe how to empower Luna or Cadance if needed.

UNLESS we think we'll kill the Outside (99% Discord) in like 3 to 4 turns, There's probably worth in doing it.

That said, Keeping Baldomare is certainly more important in the short term.

Yes, please. It feels like such a waste to throw 2 Nat 100 away like that(again) AND she can do ritual research in Velvet's place so it is not like it wouldn't work.

Seeker Jade could do it better so we should use the free social action to upgrade her lore levels.

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Generally speaking we should really teach all of our confidants, it makes them more useful. Jade, Rarity, and Fluttershy.

Jade can make rituals, research the Memory, and do Scrying.

Rarity brings us money, but is also a good socialite, so she can boost or take social actions.

Fluttershy... well, she can ask Comet Feet to do stuff for us, but if we get her to Winter 3 she's likely to gain a skill or power of some sort that might be useful. We can estimate from what we'll see on Rarity Grail 3 if it's worth doing soon.

We dint even know if she is still alive or not. She got hit by two Nightmare rituals back to back.

Or maybe she found some kind of occult defense like we did! Wouldn't that be funny.

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the first ritual was admittedly calibrated to... well, spook, not kill or seriously hurt. Which makes me wonder if we would have been able to tank the first attack without using a Key.

If they're actually with Copper's cult, then yeah, I could see her swiping them on the side while she's there to cause chaos. We don't actually know if they're there, though, or if e.g. Windy has them, Copper is holding on to them personally instead of keeping it in the cult proper, or some secret third option (random McCultist took them and is using them to secretly found their own cult? They were actually destroyed in the Wildhoof Club fire? Etc). Which is why I want to scry them, so we can deal with them before they become a problem.

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maybe we should just scry for the manuscript, and then undertake an expedition to destroy them... I'm now at least considering it, though of course no plan can be final until we finish this turn and see if

1)Axe summon succeeds
2)Luna is fine and how she feels about us
3)How does Ash Wolf work
4)minor, but what is Rarity's grail power.

 

[Greymere]

not necessarily? Winter isn't good to defend against Winter, and thus far all the Names we know of could only use the same rituals we know of.

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The whole reason we went with PTN over EiB was because there were fears that Neighnia, as the Winter Name, might have some way to block or redirect the Winter killing ritual.

(Edit: Actually there's another potential scrying target: what are Neighnia's traits/abilities?)

what would Jade even do about the Manuscripts? She can't steal them, we can't burn them at a distance with a ritual...

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Scry them so we actually know where they are and can do something about it? Considering they're big e Evidence against us and we picked the option that means we won't have the opportunity to modify/destroy evidence if it ends up on Fair Trial's/the Bureau's radar.

 

[Zxzx24]

Winning is better than not losing.

 

[Pittauro]

The whole reason we went with PTN over EiB was because there were fears that Neighnia, as the Winter Name, might have some way to block or redirect the Winter killing ritual.

(Edit: Actually there's another potential scrying target: what are Neighnia's traits/abilities?)

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there were also some (admittedly smaller) worries that Winter might allow a defense against PtN, as Winter is good at defending the mind. if Copper got a warning like we did, then in theory she could have used Neighnia's ability to grant herself a winter 4 influence and gain a +40 to the resistance roll, and that's ignoring the possibility of a specific power working DIRECTLY against the ritual attack (like the Keys.)

Winning is better than not losing.

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but only if we can win faster than we would otherwise lose.

 

[Zxzx24]

but only if we can win faster than we would otherwise lose.

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A fair point... and looking for the Manuscripts might be wise. If they didn't burn up.

I really doubt Copper has them however. The wild hoof club burned down. And she was in manehattan when it all went down if I'm not mistaken.

I hope you guys understand my apprehension at seeing people psyching themselves up to take another swing at Copper also. Given how it went last time.

 

[Greymere]

A fair point... and looking for the Manuscripts might be wise. If they didn't burn up.

I really doubt Copper has them however. The wild hoof club burned down. And she was in manehattan when it all went down if I'm not mistaken.

I hope you guys understand my apprehension at seeing people psyching themselves up to take another swing at Copper also. Given how it went last time.

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If they did burn with the club building, that's great news. But if they didn't, we should probably do something about that. Because I doubt Bird is going to forget that they're out there even if we manage to, and shooting ourselves in the foot (hoof?) later down the line because we decided finding out where the incriminating evidence went wasn't that important actually would be... incredibly irritating, to put it lightly.

Edit: Especially since said incriminating evidence getting into the Crown's hooves (Solar Court, Bureau, Eclipse, or otherwise) probably leads directly into sunfire blast, which we've been trying very hard to avoid.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

The apprehension is understandable, but, well… different situations. Back then an attack was pushed on the evidence of a single strike from dubious origins, when hostilities were still fresh. Now, however, she has very definitely tried to murder us, and we her. The Master fooled us, sure, but by this point the hostilities are very real and and blood has been drawn, to say nothing of Velvet murdering the Master Copper was still nominally loyal to. Peace might be possible, but there is no longer any question that we are currently at war.

 

[Zxzx24]

Well see if she attacks us this turn I suppose.

It is nearly over.

The apprehension is understandable, but, well… different situations. Back then an attack was pushed on the evidence of a single strike from dubious origins, when hostilities were still fresh. Now, however, she has very definitely tried to murder us, and we her. The Master fooled us, sure, but by this point the hostilities are very real and and blood has been drawn, to say nothing of Velvet murdering the Master Copper was still nominally loyal to. Peace might be possible, but there is no longer any question that we are currently at war.

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It is precisely this kind of thinking that lead to us attacking her the first time.

But I suspect I'm not going to be talking people out of this. I tried last time to little success.

 

[jelloloaf]

Put me down as also in favor of leaving Copper alone for now. We know the path to victory, and I don't think that she'll have enough ability to pull us off of it or get ahead that she'll be a major risk. (Also I still hope we can make peace eventually.)

 

[DelightedOne]

It is not good to leave an enemy working, we need her to stop being an enemy as soon as possible.