Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

We should definitely not take Softy's cult as our own. Trading an action from the most competent mare in the world for a cult action is an awful trade, especially close to All In. Besides, that's just not what a supportive mother does!

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All of the other choices sound ripe for 'Oops! All Bad Shit' though, is the thing. Like, do you really want to trust the Wolf Cult, who are already culling their own if they get too obsessed with Soft Sweeps, the ability to summon Ash-Ghouls? Or get up to whatever inevitably awful thing(s) they'll do with influence to the point that only being close friends with the Mother will save Mayor Mare from it?

And considering the wording on that choice, I am not convinced that 'negatively affected' doesn't just means 'dead'.

 

[Pittauro]

comments on the "likely to become canon" extra threadmark, for now.

Knock​

BANG

Knock​

BANG

Knock​

BANG

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Truly, perspective is everything. And being aware of the lores, or touched by the Hours, can certainly change your perspective

Because more than lies, or robes, or any trickery that could be weaved, the ponies there gathered were wearing the greatest disguise of all.

They were wearing their own faces.

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ok, that's actually VERY unsettling. Congrats

Because her daughter had called them a group, and a gathering, and most importantly she called them her friends.

But the guest knew that, in truth, they were her followers. Her servants. Her… cult.

And innocent Soft Sweeps didn't even realize it.

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I'd be even more impressed if we didn't get her to sometimes give orders she doesn't remember giving due to the influence of the Wolf

-She will understand exactly what it is that you want. And you will be so proud of her.

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this promises drama!

I really did not expect this kind of choice to come out of the "favor" for Soft.

I'm leaning "Inspiration" (+1 stain narratively) or influence.

We can't afford one action for them each turn, and I don't really trust them with the rituals... then again, they can get access to the basic rituals fairly easily... but... do we REALLY want them to learn how to summon Windigoes?

---

Bureau is being subverted by us, Celestia is at Lantern 1, Cadance was introduced to the lores(by Mareinette), people want to do Mareinette's sacrament, Spoiled is being prepared for Moth Sacrament, we are working on befriending Baldomare and Cherenkolt and I think we are also doing Biedde's Sacrament?

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And I just remembered my sheer disappointment at Cherenkolt not getting named "Rare Fabric" for the obvious "Velvet + Rarity" pun

It will be interesting to see what we end up doing with Mareinette. We're basically committed to her Sacrament at this point, so the question is WHO we'll sacrifice.

an "evil" criminal as a mostly-guilt-free victim (opinions vary on how much to invest in finding the worst possible victim)? Our father? Spoiled right after the moth sacrament? I think those were the three main options we were considering

But yeah, I remember a bit more now. We basically have fairly good and achievable plans for... quite a few sacraments actually.

We already have Axe's Knock.

We are planning for

Biedde's Edge
Velvet's Moth
Velvet's AND Baldomare's SH
Cherenkolt's Forge
Mareinette's Grail
Baldomare's Lantern.

and there's even a non-zero chance we might go for Velvet's Winter, assuming we can't get Neighnia to help...

oh, and of course we have plans for more Name friendships. Namely Mareinette, Baldomare and Cherenkolt, with Biedde being beyond us and Axe already being firmly on our side. (or, well, Silky's side, but same thing!)

-Acquire a prisoner, preferably not an innocent civilian
- Build a prison

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oh, I forgot we DID go for this in the end! Nice.

...hopefully we don't fail. If we did, we'd basically HAVE to go for Spoiled as a backup, we don't really have a choice from what I remember, we're committed to doing the sacrament no matter what.

For anyone who doesn't want to look it up:

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

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So, it's basically giving Soft an EXPLICIT mission to have her cult do our bidding? To become OUR Church?

mh... I wonder what horrible consequences WILL come from this. Easiest thing to imagine is zealots committing horrible, inhumane crimes to achieve our goals.

Stuff like using Windigoes for missions that benefit us, or killing and possibly even torturing our political rivals and/or detractors... Or, you know, crime to get us bits. We oh so need bits...

Also good ol' Lady Velvet Covers a perfectly normal pony who no one should ever be scared of. The perspective of Whacky Amor and her view of Velvet really kind of parallels Velvet's encounters with powerful beings like Names, it really shows that compared to the normal pony with no Lores or a baby cultist who likely only has one or two levels in their natural Lore, she is terrifying especially with the Stains.

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We DO have all the 3s, most 4s, and at least one 5. Velvet IS really scary, and while she's obviously much less than a Name, I'd argue that she wouldn't look that bad when compared to some weaker Longs, even. Sure, she's not as powerful or durable, but when you consider the amount of progress she has done in less than 2 years... I think in the older Age she might have had multiple Hours trying to recruit her in their service.

actually @OurLadyOfWires what's your take on this? What would the cultists of the old world think of Velvet and her talent? Particularly, what would the Longs think of her? The Hours, if you're willing to speak of how they'd see her? The Names don't seem that impressed, by they DO find her interesting for a variety of reasons, and I imagine Longs and "mortal" cultists would have had far lower standards.

And that's ignoring her connection to the "Outsider" princess. Or how she went into the dreamlands infested by Worms, which I imagine would have most old cultists too terrified to attempt

Tools - Giving rituals doesnt seem as bad at first glance but then you realise that this is another group who could contest Names, another group who could cast End is Beautifuls and Summon Windigos and as they are a Wolf Cult they would be rather inclined to summons beings that are so linked to their friend/leaders mothers patron. So it would get out of hand quickly.

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Mostly the Windigoes. Realistically they won't be able to contest Names, but Windigoes (and to a lesser extent PTN and EIB are pretty worrying in their hands. or, you know, the corpse-golem abomination made of up to 7 sacrifices, which is even WORSE than the Windigoes. And that I think is stronger than anything short of a fully unleashed Selene or Biedde, basically (or, well, Celestia).

Freedom - takes another action but gives us control and we can both mitigate/direct the harm and use them (likely teaching them more in the process making them more of a problem long term)

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but can we afford it when we have plans for multiple Name friendships and Sacraments (which also requires us to do some expeditions and study books and artifacts for scraps), AND we have a limited number of turns before we have to go for the "Final" expedition and get Discord's statue? It's been made pretty clear that our chances of dealing with Celestia BEFORE going beyond the Tricuspid are pretty low, unless Selene comes up with some genius plan I suppose.

...and I'm still worried about Sombra potentially appearing. It's been nearly 2 years in setting, shouldn't the Crystal Empire be back REALLY soon?

If we go meta and assume 1 show season = 1 year, Sombra is beginning of season 3, so 3rd year...

and we're on turn 22. There's a very real chance we might get Sombra in 3 turns or so.

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...well, you just need more power.

But "power" is such a broad term, isn't it? Because what gives a pony more power? And when you think about it, what doesn't give a pony more power?

Bits can make a pony feel powerful. Having friends, or servants, can make a pony feel powerful. The ability to kill somepony. The means to ensure that somepony stays alive.

All of those things are, in a sense, a manifestation of power.

So yes, you need more power. But so does every maid and butler in your estate, and every pony you ever saw in the streets, and even your youngest daughter. Everypony wants to be able to do something, and once that's done they realize they want to do more.

So what is it that you really want?

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Sacraments and Name friends, really. Some high level artifacts would also be nice, admittedly.

Or Bits. I wouldn't say no to more bits either

Or a lot of Mares-in-the-Light.

"The old stallion terrifies me. Not because I fear him, but because I can't bring myself to fear him."

...

"And what better trait could an assassin have... than the ability to seem entirely harmless? To be able to get as close as needed, and then some more?"

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Truly, ALL NAMES are extremely scary. and Biedde is one of the scariest. probably only second to Mareinette, really, and in some ways even more than her.

We at least understand what Mareinette wants. She's a monster, but not one necessarily incompatible with our needs and wants. but Biedde is a mistery wrapped in an Enigma who explicitly told us we shouldn't trust him.

...I'm suddenly Reminded of Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish, and how he told Ned Stark that "not trusting him was the wisest thing he'd done in Lannisport" and later confirmed that "he shouldn't have trusted him".

"I want to think of her as a problem. I want to think of her as wrong."

"Because problems can be solved. Wrongness can be avoided."

"But as I think about her, I can't help but wonder..."

"Am I the problem?"

"Because she has not caused me any problems."

"She has not done anything wrong."

"The only thing she has done so far is offer me to do something with her."

"If I was biased against her, perhaps I would say she was tempting me."

"If I was enamored by her favor, perhaps I would say she is instead presenting me with gifts."

"But at the end of the day, she remains a question."

"And over the last few days, I must admit that I... I have thought a lot about that question."

"For a moment, I even considered... inviting my own father, to partake in her invitation."

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Remember when we were completely terrified of Mareinette?

And then, she slowly corrupted us BOTH IC and OOC.

Truly, Mareinette's Grailness transcends the fourth wall. I'm not even joking, it's objectively true!

And even knowing this, I still can't help but think that... it will probably be worth it. Which, if anything, proves how inhumanly persuasive she can be.

Velvet started hating and fearing her for the implicit threats to her daughters. We KNOW she heavily implied to Axe she expects Velvet to eventually eat Silky. and we're STILL going for the "friendship" with her, knowing what it means...

"Still, despite all that, I can't help but entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe, she is more eager for me to accept her invitation that I could ever be."

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appropriate for a name of GRAIL, isn't it? After all, Velvet's friendship has become her latest wish, the treat she wishes to gain.

And I don't mean that in a demeaning way. As I posted months ago in a fairly comprehensive analysis, Mareinette probably sees a lot of herself in Velvet, AND while she's a monster... she's a monster that DOES enjoy social relationships.

She probably WANTS for Velvet to eventually become her peer, because the pleasure of Grails are something she could enjoy even more with a companion.

And also, you know, we DID save her from the Ruined Church, so there's probably a not-insignificant amount of gratitude in her. Not enough to, say, let us kill her (obviously), but enough that she decided to treat our (objective) rudeness to her as a game, and that she'd "win" our trust and friendship slowly, and then all will be good.

"Even if the cost to acquire it is prohibitive."

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in the short term. given a few turns we CAN afford it.

"As for Baldomare..."

"Well, we both know you are reading this. Right now."

"Not a single word can be penned in this house that you are not aware of."

"Your opinion on these matters would be greatly appreciated. But I can already hear you sighing in your room, and reaching for another bottle."


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- - -



Unsurprisingly, Baldomare never appeared in your room to give you her opinion.

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Still, you read over your notes, three times over, and then you got rid of them. You burned them, you separated the ashes into small piles and mixed each of them with the ashes of different substances. And you put them all aside to dispose of them in separate locations. And even then, you knew that would not be enough if somepony really wanted to retrieve them.

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Really? Magic is quite bullshit then, even ignoring the lores.




I'll read the actual actions and proposed plans tomorrow, it's late here

 

[Shaper47]

We can't afford one action for them each turn, and I don't really trust them with the rituals... then again, they can get access to the basic rituals fairly easily... but... do we REALLY want them to learn how to summon Windigoes?

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Mostly the Windigoes. Realistically they won't be able to contest Names, but Windigoes (and to a lesser extent PTN and EIB are pretty worrying in their hands. or, you know, the corpse-golem abomination made of up to 7 sacrifices, which is even WORSE than the Windigoes.

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You do have to remember though that our daughter and her little friends are on our side.

They're not going to go out of their way to sabotage us or cause us problems which given our job takes away of lot of people concerns.

If anything they're probably going to be able to help with things when we go All In.

 

[Greymere]

Biedde's Edge
Velvet's Moth
Velvet's AND Baldomare's SH
Cherenkolt's Forge
Mareinette's Grail
Baldomare's Lantern.

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I don't think there was a consensus in which Forge Sacrament we wanted to take, but this is otherwise what I remember the lineup being, yeah.

oh, I forgot we DID go for this in the end! Nice.

...hopefully we don't fail. If we did, we'd basically HAVE to go for Spoiled as a backup, we don't really have a choice from what I remember, we're committed to doing the sacrament no matter what.

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Technically, we're not locked in to doing it next turn specifically. However, if we don't, then we'll have to pay the binding cost, which will suck if she only ends up bound for a single turn before we take her Sacrament.

and we're on turn 22. There's a very real chance we might get Sombra in 3 turns or so.

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Maybe if he shows up early enough the situation will distract Eclipse/Celestia from learning more Lantern?

Tbh if/when he does show up, I'm fully expecting him to be at least a Long. It would be funny in a horrifying way if he turned out to be a Name.

...hm.

...you know, Edge Dyads don't have to be Colonel-Lionsmith...

 

[Shaper47]

We are planning for

Biedde's Edge
Velvet's Moth
Velvet's AND Baldomare's SH
Cherenkolt's Forge
Mareinette's Grail
Baldomare's Lantern.

and there's even a non-zero chance we might go for Velvet's Winter, assuming we can't get Neighnia to help...

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I don't think there was a consensus in which Forge Sacrament we wanted to take, but this is otherwise what I remember the lineup being, yeah.

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I'm pretty sure personal Forge Sacrament is cheaper in bits and given how the thread has been insisting on keeping us as poor as possible we'll probably be going for our personal Forge Sacrament.

Our lantern Sacrament could go either way, Baldomare AP are very valuable so going for our personal sacrament that only uses one Velvet AP is probably preferable. Especially if we want Moth 6.

I personally hate our personal Winter Sacrament but really we should get all the sacraments we can. A real shame how people aren't going for the best Winter Sacrament but we probably should hunt down Neighnia anyways.

Also on the topic of Winter I don't know what treasures were behind that Winter Sacrament locked area but we really should beat up our old friend Windy for them.

 

[spiderhellian]

All of the other choices sound ripe for 'Oops! All Bad Shit' though, is the thing. Like, do you really want to trust the Wolf Cult, who are already culling their own if they get too obsessed with Soft Sweeps, the ability to summon Ash-Ghouls? Or get up to whatever inevitably awful thing(s) they'll do with influence to the point that only being close friends with the Mother will save Mayor Mare from it?

And considering the wording on that choice, I am not convinced that 'negatively affected' doesn't just means 'dead'.

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Yes, but my view is that this is already all bad shit, and that's not going to change.

Softy is a Wolf Apostle and we've got a Wolf Cult in Ponyville! If this was turn 2 it would be something to focus on, if it was turn 12 it would be a ball in the air, but it's turn 22.

Even if we start to lead them? They're still going to be a wolf cult. That's not going to go away, and it's still going to be bad shit.

We've got bigger problems, like Celestia, and the Glory. Taking over the cult because we want to limit it is playing not to lose.

And plus, it's really not being a supportive mother

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Just a quick note.

I'd like to remind everyone that Celestia is, as of the START of Turn 22, at Lantern 2.

I heard talk of her being Lantern 1, and I want to make sure everyone knows that is (unfortunately) not the case.

Selene will keep tabs on her for you, if you give her the time for that. But those tabs are only as good as your willingness to react to them.

Anyways

In this instance, considering the vote's going to be open for a week or so from what you said (giving people time to catch up/refresh), I don't think it'll be needed. People will trickle back in if/when they do, and the Velvet phase actions were pretty well-discussed before the impromptu hiatus.

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I agree! I just wanted to make sure people know they can speak up. But I also think this will be pretty chill.

Still, thank you for the input!

actually @OurLadyOfWires what's your take on this? What would the cultists of the old world think of Velvet and her talent? Particularly, what would the Longs think of her? The Hours, if you're willing to speak of how they'd see her? The Names don't seem that impressed, by they DO find her interesting for a variety of reasons, and I imagine Longs and "mortal" cultists would have had far lower standards.

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I actually do have some thoughts on this.

Spoiler: Long thoughts

They mostly boil down to "Velvet would have been an impossibility in older Eras".

To put it simply, nowadays the Lores are...

Well, the Lores are and always were the Laws of Reality. (Don't take this as full word of god. No comments on Harmony or the current Era. Just follow this for the sake of this explanation.)
But here's the thing. Back then the Lores were both the Laws AND the Will of the Hours.

Back then, Grail was a "Law", yes, but the Powers That Be that presided over Grail could change it. The same way a ruler can change a Law at a whim.
Of course, the principle of Grail could not be changed at a whim because several different Hours claimed primacy over it. But still, there was a body of Hours that, if they all agreed on something, could bend Grail as a Lore towards it.

So, back then, the Lores were "Laws" the same way that gravity is a law. And also the same way that your local legislation is a law.

Nowadays, since there are no longer any active Hours (that you know of) the Lores are ONLY a Law. There are no longer any number of Godlike entities twisting and turning it to their desires.

To go back full circle into my thoughts on this.

Back then, Velvet would have been an "impossibility" because she wouldn't just have to be proficient at all the Lores, but she would also have to be favored by several conflicting Hours to be able to practice all those Lores. Back then, practicing Lores was very close to what one might describe as politics. (And even canon CS is rife with the agreements and grudges of Hours).

I literally mean this in the sense that, back then if an adept was practicing Heart one day, and tried to practice Winter on the next, some Hours (or Name, or Long, or another creature) could take note and offense at her proclivities. Granted, it might be possible for a practitioner to practice two, or four, or maybe even six different Lores.

But balancing enough plates to be not only proficient, but actually good at all nine Lores (that is beyond the low-level tricks)? That would be a tough order. Not truly impossible, but you would need to be a Merlin-like legendary figure in your own right. Or maybe you would have to be a "compromise" between the Hours, like a Hush House Librarian of sorts, that the Hours consent to existing for their own reasons. (I have not yet played BoH, so no comments here either).

Still, in the present, there are no jealous Hours gatekeeping the practice of their Lores.
And Velvet, thanks to her innate omni-competence, is like a kid in a metaphysical playground. The first scientist in the Renaissance, able to play with all the toys that were left untouched for millennia.

Sorry, that turned out long. But I think about this every now and then. Please don't take any of this as too much canon, I took some poetic liberties here and there.

Remember when we were completely terrified of Mareinette?

And then, she slowly corrupted us BOTH IC and OOC.

Truly, Mareinette's Grailness transcends the fourth wall. I'm not even joking, it's objectively true!

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Oh, yeah. I am a bit proud of this.

Please ignore my user picture, I am definitely a normal person writing a normal story

 

[Shaper47]

Still, in the present, there are no jealous Hours gatekeeping the practice of their Lores.
And Velvet, thanks to her innate omni-competence, is like a kid in a metaphysical playground. The first scientist in the Renaissance, able to play with all the toys that were left untouched for millennia.

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I get the feeling that the Master probably could have gatekeeped Moth but Velvet gave her the Wheel treatment so that's not a thing anymore.

Actually since the Master was able to have level 5 in all lores except for Moth does that mean that our Names could increase their lore knowledge?

Velvet could teach her beloved friend Mareinette about the delights of Edge for instance.