Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Lorrie]

Since Princess Luna is a Confidante she's a valid target for the Moth Sacrament.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

While I understand this, I think waiting until T20 isn't a very high risk. We can make an Edge 3 reagent this turn, some other one (Edge 2/Knock 1?) on Turn 20, then summon him with a much better chance of success (also on T20).

Click to shrink...

Would it be better to creat an SH reagent this turn either for the Jade scry or our Influence calling?

 

[Greymere]

Would it be better to creat an SH reagent this turn either for the Jade scry or our Influence calling?

Click to shrink...

Maybe, SH Influence would be very useful right now. I'll have to do some math, though, since I'm not sure we can afford 3 Level 3 reagents, Biedde, a Level 5 book, and Frangiclave between T19 - T21.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I'm not sure we can afford 3 Level 3 reagents, Biedde, a Level 5 book, and Frangiclave between T19 - T21.

Click to shrink...

Personally I'm hoping for the level 5 book in the Canterlot expedition and wouldn't a level 5 book in turn 21 be too late? Last I checked we have 2 Wrong Keys, one we can burn for the DoA summon and the other for the Biedde one thus only needing two level 3 reagents but that leaves us a bit vulnerable…

Also do the follower also count as having spent their AP in an expedition or only the leader? If it's the latter we can have Velvet lead the expedition and use DoA's AP for Wrong Keys. Or if the former I suppose we could just hope we don't get hit with a ritual on turn 20.

 

[Greymere]

Personally I'm hoping for the level 5 book in the Canterlot expedition and wouldn't a level 5 book in turn 21 be too late? Last I checked we have 2 Wrong Keys, one we can burn for the DoA summon and the other for the Biedde one thus only needing two level 3 reagents but that leaves us a bit vulnerable…

Click to shrink...

Yes it would. I was just talking about that timeframe, cause that's when all these things would be happening. Also re: Biedde and Wrong Key, yes we could technically sacrifice a Wrong Key for Biedde, but the problem isn't actually with Knock. It's with the Edge DC, because we don't get a reroll on it, so bonuses on the Edge DC affect the final chance a lot more than Knock or Moth.

Edit: Like the chance w/ just Edge 3 reagent is ~78%. Edge 3 + Wrong Key is ~84%, which is better, but even doing an Edge 2 reagent (on top of the Edge 3) has a lot more effect, moving the chance up to 92% (if I'm doing my math right).

...Actually. You know what? Bird said he's going to optimize for who can do what, so we can totally put in the order to go get a dead body in the follower phase plan on T20 and use it to make a Shattered Torn Risen. We make a SH3 reagent this turn, a Edge 3 reagent next turn, then sacrifice the Edge 3 reagent and the Torn Risen to summon Biedde T20. Problem solved?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

...Actually. You know what? Bird said he's going to optimize for who can do what, so we can totally put in the order to go get a dead body in the follower phase plan and use it to make a Shattered Risen. We make a SH3 reagent this turn, a Edge 3 reagent next turn, then sacrifice the Edge 3 reagent and the Shattered Risen to summon Biedde T20. Problem solved?

Click to shrink...

...yes we could do that couldn't we? Make a T3 Edge reagent on turn 20 and task either Comet or Jade with grave robing for the Shattered Risen.

Hmm what of the SH Reagent then, Influence or Jade scry? Personally I think we should use it for the scry, even with the reagent we would need to hit 70 on a roll to get a T4 influence right?

 

[Greymere]

...yes we could do that couldn't we? Make a T3 Edge reagent on turn 20 and task either Comet or Jade with grave robing for the Shattered Risen.

Hmm what then of the SH Reagent then, Influence or Jade scry? Personally I think we should use it for the scry, even with the reagent we would need to hit 70 on a roll to get a T4 influence right?

Click to shrink...

If we're using it on the scry we don't need a Level 3 SH reagent, a Level 2 would be enough for Jade to hit the SH DC (60). And even if we don't get T4 Influence, T3 would still be pretty good (still a +30). It would be pretty disappointing if we only got a T2 Influence, but that'll still be a +20 to our rolls that we wouldn't otherwise be getting, and getting at least T2 is borderline guaranteed with the reroll (Edit: If sacrificing an SH3 reagent).

 

[Greymere]

Okay so, tentative outline for this turn:

Followers (9 AP)

- Detectives: Threats from outside
- Constables: Changeling follow up
- Commissioner: Increase Bureau loyalty

- Summon DoA

1) Selene: Learn her abilities & privileges
2) Mareinette: Get us more bits (without murder, abduction, or bringing suspicion on us)
3) Guard our home
4) Reflection of the Tapestry (Frangiclave)
5) Reflection of the Tapestry (manuscripts & other evidence)
6) Beneath the Royal Castle, Part 2. Apply gift to cost if DoA leads (which she probably will be)
7) Prepare Jade's house (again)
8 & 9) Cover your bases

Velvet (4 + 1 - 1 AP)

- AotL: Outsider search
- Forge: SH3
- Social: Filthy Rich
1) Read books (Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book)
2) Calling of Influence; sacrifice SH3 reagent
3) Outsider search
4) SH Sacrament

 

[Pittauro]

random thought, but I wonder if Luna being able to re-hide as Selene is her Moth realization power. "her other shape", so to speak.

And note Luna will not be taking the position of head of the Lunar Bureau. So no second Alicorn in the capital friendly to us. Again their is no reward for a good dead expect the fact you did a good deed.

Click to shrink...

we basically now have an Alicorn Daughter CONFIDANT. so I disagree.

She can do some rituals better than us! AND she can dreamwalk, which has potential too for, for example, secret meetings.

I don't mind revealing that.

But I want to make one thing very clear-

Spoiler: Large image

Credits: Art by "Radiancebreaker", available publicly, taken from "derpibooru.org"

-the implications of the gift would have been the true impact, rather than the gift itself. And those implications, being the true result of the vote, are something I won't talk about.

Edit: ach, seems this was too elusive, I apologize. This may have been a hyper-specific reference too focused on the pony show.

This is an artifact from an episode called "Between Dark and Dawn". It was given to Twilight by Celestia and Luna, as they went on vacation (this is an episode from the very last season) and it has a very specific purpose.

Click to shrink...

...implication seems obvious to me.

It's either Celestia basically saying to Cadance she'll be the next "Queen" Princess (let's face it, the princesses were NOT equal), or that she's seriously considering the possibility of dying or at least abandoning pony society.

Or both.

Funnily enough, I think I remember a mention of just such a device in the other thread somewhere. I think… Velvet sketched it out at some point? During one of the Realizations. Or maybe it was an omake. I also vaguely remember Bird mentioning at some point that there was a possibility we would have to construct it if certain paths had been taken, or something.

Click to shrink...

I think it was something about studying forge?

You are Velvet Covers, the Hour of Comfy. And your entire existence is based on eternally sinking just a little deeper on this perfect cloud that is your home.

Click to shrink...

Well, we now know what our first decree as an Hour will be!

We'll make a whole principle of "feeling snug and comfy"!

and it will be GLORIOUS!

It will be a cross of the enduring heart, and peaceful winter!

As soon as you and Stormchaser entered the dinner room, Selene whispered something on Silky's ear, and the filly loudly declared that she had forgotten something important at school. Something she absolutely needed to get right now, for a coming school project.

Click to shrink...

Good filly!

"I…" she opens her mouth.

And both you and Stormchaser immediately lean forward, ears perked up so you can hear her better.

"I want to stay here, with the two of you… Is that… is that alright?" she asks.

Click to shrink...

Velvet right now

spoken: Of course, dear
inside her head: "YES YES YES YES..!"

"Thanks mom," she says.

Click to shrink...

I 100% believe Velvet has still not got used to being called mom by Selene/Luna and is basically melting inside from happiness!

It is almost intimidating, to be face to face with a Princess like this. To be talking to the Princess of the Moon in the confines of your own bedroom, as she looks at you with an expression that is both serious and determined.

Or rather, it would be intimidating, if you also didn't look at her and immediately think of her as your daughter.

Click to shrink...

It must truly be a new feeling for Luna... though of course not for Selene.

Who knows, maybe we'll ACTUALLY get a filly Celestia in the future! It's starting to look like a wonderful way of solving problems

"First, I want to stay here. I want to stay close to Silky, and you two, and everypony else. I don't know yet what is the best way to do that, so I will want to hear your thoughts on it. But I…" she trails off, raising a foreleg and looking at her hoof.

The crystal horseshoes she has on her hoofs are beautiful, although you have no idea of how she got them or when she put them on. But still, she seems to be deep in thought for a moment as she looks at it.

"I know that I am a Princess. I know there are expectations for Princesses. And it's not that I do not care for those expectations. But an expectation is not a duty, and I know what my duties are. So, I want to stay here. Make sure Silky and everypony else is alright. And move on from there."

Click to shrink...

Honestly that's really good for her. In the past, she got crushed by her duties AND lack of friends and support.

Sure, in this story it was 99% a Worm's fault, but that doesn't completely remove the other problems. She didn't trust Celestia with her worries, she had no support...

and really, it's being proven MULTIPLE TIMES that keeping Alicorns happy and mentally stable is SUPER important.

"Second, I… I want to stay a secret. For now, at least. I don't mean total secrecy or anything like that. But I don't want Equestria to know this happened. Most of all, I don't what my sister to know this happened. Celestia, that is. So, ponykind as a whole can't know, because that knowledge would certainly reach her. And if she learns I am back, she… well, I want to take care of my sister's current condition at my own pace, and in my own way."

You and Stormchaser immediately agree, and you two promise you will help her with that.

In fact, several ideas begin to appear in your mind. Of the ponies who you could tell, and the ponies who definitely must not learn about this. Of how Selene can stay here, and not raise any suspicions, without being stuck with the routine of a young filly. That, and many things more.

Click to shrink...

Rarity can be told.

Fluttershy and Jade too.

Cadance and SHining... probably.

Depending on Twilight's future condition, if she's recovering, if she can be brought to Luna's side... maybe.

and slowly we might recruit the other elements too.

Telling Fluttershy would mean telling Comet though, I think. That will be a difficult conversation.

"And third… I want to know what happened. I want to know everything that happened. Anything you can tell me, everything you know. I… I want to help, I have to help. I have just returned to Equestria, and I am a Princess. But I can't help if I don't know what the hay is going on. Those strange lessons you taught me. This… this way you brought me back. I need to know everything. Please."

She says that, and you…

Ah.

Deep down, you always knew this would happen. You always knew that, at some point, you would have to tell a Princess everything you did. Just like you did with Stormchaser.

Your husband seems slightly concerned, as he gives you a side glance.

But to your own surprise, you are actually very calm. In fact, you almost feel relieved.

So, you tell Selene to get comfortable in her seat.

And then you tell her everything.

Click to shrink...

...everything?

The Lores and the Names and the Cult and the WOLF?

...well, I'm happy we didn't have to vote on this. Really, it's a weight off our back.

Luna, the Princess of the Moon, is now your Confidante. You told her everything, and when you asked for her forgiveness, she told you there was nothing to forgive. She agrees with all of your actions and has asked you to direct her on how she can continue to help your cause.

Click to shrink...

YES!

YES!

Harmony wins today! She KNOWS, and she UNDERSTANDS!

Truly, we tried our best!

To be fair, she'd understand that all the risks we did NOT take were because of Stormchaser and Silky. Like, you know, betraying the cult earlier.

"What should you call her? Well, if you are asking that question then you already failed the secret test. Those who love her call her Selene. Those who know of her call her Luna. And she is happy to be called your daughter."

Click to shrink...

[MOTH SKILL]: Selene will be able to retain her "Selene" guise, without raising any suspicion, for as long as she wishes. Her guise will remain undetected until she chooses to reveal herself.
[EDGE SKILL]: CURRENTLY LOCKED
[WINTER SKILL]: CURRENTLY LOCKED
[KNOCK SKILL]: CURRENTLY LOCKED
[DILIGENT]: Every turn, Selene will automatically perform one random "training" action in her free time. She is free to use her actions on something else.

Click to shrink...

yeah, as I guessed, Moth Realization is her Selene form. I wonder how this changes once she goes public though.

Maybe she'll instead gain an adult earth pony form?

also nice on the free training! Let's see what she can do... presumably train the lores further.

Selene is currently "in training". She will have the following exclusive actions available to her, every turn, until they are all completed. These actions will auto-succeed if she spends an action on them, and one random action will automatically be chosen (for free) due to her "Diligent" skill:

[] This body is new to her, but it is old to the world. She must learn of its abilities and privileges. (Grain +5 to her General Bonus) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] This body is old to her, but it is new to the world. She must learn of its restrictions and limitations. (Gain +1 total health) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Edge. (Unlock her Edge skill) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Winter. (Unlock her Winter skill) (TRAINING ACTION)
[] Realize something about Knock. (Unlock her Knock skill) (TRAINING ACTION)

Once Selene completes her training, she will be able to reach Level 4 in all of her Lores at the same time. That lesson will require an action from Velvet Covers, who must have the requisite Lore knowledge, and will grant Selene a further +1 total health and +5 to her General Bonus. As well, of course, as the upgrade in her personal Lore levels.

Click to shrink...

so, her general bonus will go up by 5 per training action, her health by 1 per training action, then she'll unlock a realization per action AND once she has them all she'll reach lvl 4 in all 4 lores for another action (with Velvet using an action to teach her as well). That's great, though it will take her a few turns to truly catch up to Celestia.

not sure if the first two actions can be repeated multiple times.

If every action can be taken only once, she peaks at lvl 4 Lores, General 30 and Health 7, which is more than respectable.

Depending on the realizations, she might actually beat Celestia in a fight (she'd roll +50 with reroll every 6 clashes, Celestia is... +80 from "Alicorn Combat".

Ok, not quite there, though an Edge Influence can make up for it if needed.

But you have not told her about any of your regrets.

Click to shrink...

ah.

so not quite everything.

...Velvet, you were so CLOSE!



Break, work, read the rest later...

 

[DelightedOne]

Might as well give planning things a shot even if I have no idea what I'm doing. Also anything marked with a "?" is more of a guess.

Follower phase(9 AP):
- Summon Axe
- Detectives: Investigate
- Constables: Nothing
- Comissioner: Midday Dew
- Rarity: Comission
- Jade: A Memory of Light
- Fluttershy: Help with Comet?
- Baldomare: Get her book
- Mareinette: Infiltrate Coppers Cult to get our manuscripts back
- DoA: Canterlot expedition
- Selene: Edge realization and Guard our home
- Clean Jade's house again(be more specific with what we want this time)

Velvet phase(4 + 1 - 1 AP)
- Free Social: Teach Jade
- AotL: Grail for Comet.
- Comet's Fleeting Opportunity
- Read the Forge 3 books and the Edge 1(?)
- Edge 3 reagent

The rest I want to leave 2 free till we see the turn 19 list for Velvet.

This is more to Luna meeting Celestia in her dreams, but I think the Daybreaker thing is at least part of why the Harmony ending is too impractical to pursue; if the Outsider is reunited without taking the (likely large) effort to remove Daybreaker from Celestia's mind, there's a very good chance the resulting being ends up corrupted before it can lead to Harmony and becoming the new biggest threat to Equestria.

Still, I think researching the Memory of Light may be worthwhile to do anyways (especially if we don't particularly need Jade's action that turn).

Click to shrink...

Nah, the Harmony ending is impractical because Glory is close. And we don't really need Jade this turn so she could do the research.

 

[Gyldir]

As per your previous orders, a pegasus runner came to your home on the night of the first weekday, to inquire if anything was alright.

Click to shrink...

Is the anything alright a joke or a wellplaced error?

Really puts it into perspective just how close a 2 really is to 1, huh. That Daybreaker is being repressed by Celestia does imply that the 'resl' Celestia's personality is still in there, though.

Click to shrink...

1 is what we are tiptoeing around to avoid.
So close and yet so far.

Going back to this for a second...

Selene and Velvet are going to have a lot of work to do once Selene decides on a plan, I suspect. We're possibly going to have to work our way up through Celestia's possible mental states until we hit 7+, and we'll be starting from the third-lowest option out of eight, and quite possibly the lowest it could have been and still be recoverable.

Click to shrink...

Part of the way may already be helpfull.
If we reach depression Celestia instead of "trauma almost bursting into daybreaker", ahe'll probably be much more receptive to Luna returning or us explaining the Lores.

Okay so, tentative outline for this turn:

Followers (9 AP)

- Detectives: Threats from outside
- Constables: Changeling follow up
- Commissioner: Increase Bureau loyalty

- Summon DoA

1) Selene: Learn her abilities & privileges
2) Mareinette: Get us more bits (without murder, abduction, or bringing suspicion on us)
3) Guard our home
4) Reflection of the Tapestry (Frangiclave)
5) Reflection of the Tapestry (manuscripts & other evidence)
6) Beneath the Royal Castle, Part 2. Apply gift to cost if DoA leads (which she probably will be)
7) Prepare Jade's house (again)
8 & 9) Cover your bases

Velvet (4 + 1 - 1 AP)

- AotL: Outsider search
- Forge: SH3
- Social: Filthy Rich
1) Read books (Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book)
2) Calling of Influence; sacrifice SH3 reagent
3) Outsider search
4) SH Sacrament

Click to shrink...

Selenes Winter realization could be helpfull in dealing with Celestia.
A helping (others) with their mental health thing would be the Winter area most fitting for her.

 

[DelightedOne]

If we reach depression Celestia instead of "trauma almost bursting into daybreaker", ahe'll probably be much more receptive to Luna returning or us explaining the Lores.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but then we might have to deal with Celestia's depressed version of this:

65-51 - A fumbling hermit: Mouth frothing with madness, insane babblings and incoherent thoughts, so many tears amidst hysterical laughter. At least she forgot all about her powers as well, it seems, and you might be able to bring her back with you. She needs help, though, as much as can possibly be given.

Click to shrink...

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Right so bits math, our income is 160 and Rarity will give us 100 if we take the commission AP. The previous turn remainder was 16 thus leaving us with 276 bits for turn 19.

The AotL is free and the SH influence call will be 30 bits. If we make a T3 SH reagent for either it or Jade's scry that would be an additional 45 bits leaving us with 201 bits.

The two RotTs will cost us a combined 60 bits leaving behind 141.

DoA's summoning will be free so nothing from there.

Presumably Axe can do the Canterlot expedition in 50 bits but let's be conservative and say it costs us 60. That is if part of the expedition cost can't be covered by the left over gift, I believe they're worth 45 bits? Regardless 81 bits left.

The Marinette action shouldn't cost us anything but again being cautious let's say it's 50 bits.

Thus going into turn 20 we'll have 31 bits left over. Add to that 160 bits from our salary and a conservative 35 from Rarity we'll have a budget of 226 bits.

Biedde will cost us 145 bits leaving behind 81.

Not enough to do the expedition never mind buy a T5 book. If we stop being so conservative in our estimates and add 120 bits to the budget it'll be enough for the expedition but not a T5 book.

So either we count on getting the book in one of the expeditions or have Marinette take up a money making action this turn and delay her scouting to turn 20 thus even with the cautious estimates we're good. We could also burn our Edge 3 Artefact instead of a reagent and hope the 45 bits saved are enough for the expedition or make the reagent still but sell some of things we don't need like the low level artefacts, reagents and books. That'd take the servant AP thus reduce one of our APs unless we use one of Selene's to cover for our bases and will net us a decent sum.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Our Daughter could help with summoning rituals, if nothing else. She's not quite as good as Velvet but is more than decent enough for Biedde; and with the right reagent could take a decent shot at the MitLs. I wouldn't want her to try DoA though, that's just a bit too hard imo. Would be a ten percent chance of failure for every roll even if we got another Knock 3 reagent.

Click to shrink...

Could probably have her sit in on Axe's summoning though, maybe give it a bit of a boost, it'd be a good opportunity to demonstrate some "big hoodoo" safely to her. And as a bonus, Doyalist reason, it'd familiarize Axe with the situation as well before she got a chance to misapprehend things.

 

[BritBiscuit]

I can't believe that the true consequence of awakening Selene is that we also awoke the patch data. House of the Sun v1.05 is here.
Soon the now released updates will continue until we accidently add a bug in a hotpatch and the entire Mansus crashes to a blue screen

 

[Gyldir]

Yeah, but then we might have to deal with Celestia's depressed version of this:

Click to shrink...

Considering the theory of ascending through this:

7 or higher: "The Paragon of Harmony walks upon Equestria. None shall find her wanting."

6: "The morning sun comes, and the horrors of the night flee from its bright gaze."

5: "Bowed, but unbroken. Shaken, but still determined. The sun's light was warmer, before, but its light is still there."

4: "The clouds are too heavy, too numerous. The sun is still there, but we cannot reach it, and it can no longer reach us."

3: "Will the sun ever rise again? It might have forsaken us. It might just not care anymore."

2: "The sun blazes with wrath. Her will shall no longer be denied."

1: "Dawnbreaker has come. If the Moon will not rise, then the Sun will never set."

0 or lower: "The Sun was divided, and this is its wound."

Click to shrink...

We'd reach 3. Looks to me like it is
0: Shits fucked. Completely and utterly fucked.
1-2: Anger. (2: Teetering on brink of collapse into 1: let loose)
3-4: Depression
5: Harmed, lessened, but still there still helping
6: Fully there.
7: Better than before.

If we managed raise Celestia into 3:depression collapse, that would have its issues, true.
BUT:

• Luna could take her royal position.
  • Means the highest authority that isn't catatonic is our confidant.
  • The second highest non-catatonic authority? Cadence.
• We could make public to the alicorns, and Bureau+Eclipse+Solar Court the Lorse.
• We could make the Bureau the government sanctioned Cult.
  • Disciples.
  • Gov funding.
  • Gov access.
  • (Ability to fuck with our opponents)

Like... Luna could then decide that getting Velvet killing Discord in a "Blood of the Outsider" giving way is one of our tasks.
We want info on him from a restricted library? Princess Moonbutt herself decrees we should have it.
Expedition costs? Just need to sign the proper forms.
A Lore-less Eclipse managed to create a lantern 0 tool. Eclipse with access to the Secret Library (and us to support their growth where we need it) could have some juicy bonuses.

Its all speculation on a theory, but the potential is there.

 

[DelightedOne]

Considering the theory of ascending through this:

We'd reach 3. Looks to me like it is
0: Shits fucked. Completely and utterly fucked.
1-2: Anger. (2: Teetering on brink of collapse into 1: let loose)
3-4: Depression
5: Harmed, lessened, but still there still helping
6: Fully there.
7: Better than before.

If we managed raise Celestia into 3:depression collapse, that would have its issues, true.
BUT:

• Luna could take her royal position.
  • Means the highest authority that isn't catatonic is our confidant.
  • The second highest non-catatonic authority? Cadence.
• We could make public to the alicorns, and Bureau+Eclipse+Solar Court the Lorse.
• We could make the Bureau the government sanctioned Cult.
  • Disciples.
  • Gov funding.
  • Gov access.
  • (Ability to fuck with our opponents)

Like... Luna could then decide that getting Velvet killing Discord in a "Blood of the Outsider" giving way is one of our tasks.
We want info on him from a restricted library? Princess Moonbutt herself decrees we should have it.
Expedition costs? Just need to sign the proper forms.
A Lore-less Eclipse managed to create a lantern 0 tool. Eclipse with access to the Secret Library (and us to support their growth where we need it) could have some juicy bonuses.

Its all speculation on a theory, but the potential is there.

Click to shrink...

True, also I remember 4 would be filly Celestia(Ainé).

But Luna would be more likely to support the Harmony path above all others, at least if she knew what Glory being in reach again means.

 

[Pittauro]

I had a thought: How the Rite of the Mother and the Father worked makes it pretty clear what the Rite of Childhood's End would have done.

We would have effectively erased the dream called Selene. We'd get Luna, and probably a Luna who didn't make peace with her Memories (well, MAYBE if she was at all 3, but we'd have done the ritual much sooner). Possibly one still mad if we used it too early, triggering a new roll for her mental condition.

Incision would have likely either removed Selene as well, or removed the memories of the Worms. but left both Selene and Luna intact outside of that.

General bonus: +20
Lores: MOTH 3, EDGE 3, WINTER 3, KNOCK 3

Click to shrink...

ok, before I continue reading and go for the next update, I just want to point out this

Luna has 4 lores at lvl 3. We also have SH 3, HEART 3, and irrelevant to her winter 1, Edge 3 and unstudied knock 2 artifacts.

So, what can Luna actually do with rituals? ( @OurLadyOfWires you really need to port at least the ritual threadmark!)

ONE CIRCLE

Obviously she can use AotL, for herself or probably also for us, and double a lore bonus. That's, for the most part, a waste of her time except in I imagine very rare situations

TWO CIRCLES

"The Forge's Redemption"
-CD: GRAIL 60, FORGE 100

she kinda sucks at this. this is mostly to be done by Velvet or, IF WE REALLY HAVE TO, by Mareinette. At least until we get artifacts for Grail and Forge, and maybe raise Luna's general bonus some more.

"The Incision of the Heart"
-CD: EDGE 60, HEART 100

She's good at this. She could potentially use it on Twilight eventually. MAYBE on Celestia too. combined with her dream-realm powers, maybe she could create the ritual circle outside of Celestia's Dream Door, and use it to separate Daybreaker from Celestia, allowing her to fight it without risking Celestia?

"The Path Through Nightmares"
-CD: KNOCK 60, MOTH variable

if she has enemies, she can make them go mad. Though honestly this might even be superfluous to her. She can dreamwalk and dreamshape. She can ALREADY create nightmares! I suppose the two might synergize and allow her levels of control and fine-tuning on this ritual comparable to the Master though.

"The End is Beautiful"
-CD: LANTERN 60, WINTER variable

for the most part PtN is a better option for her. Still, it's an option, especially if we get a Lantern artifact to help.

"The calling of Influence"
-CD: Any aspect, as follows:

Desired Effect	+10	+20	+30	+40
CD	60	80	110	150

she currently rolls 20+15=+35, and eventually she'll roll 30+20= +50 with a reroll.

not counting reagents, which we'll soon be able to make up to lvl 4 (so max +90)

that's assuming she can't train her general bonus multiple times, and no appropriate realization.

not bad, all things considered.

"The Reflection of the Tapestry"
-CD: SECRET HISTORIES 60, LANTERN variable

she kinda sucks at this too. Celestia would likely be extremely good at it... which fits her teased prophetic abilities (mostly fanon, but there WAS something like a prophetic dream in canon...)

THREE CIRCLES: SUMMONS

Windigo
Summoning requirements: WINTER 90, KNOCK 60, EDGE 70.

she's actually extremely well suited to this, having all 3 lores. Shame we mostly don't want to use them if we can help it.

Mare-in-the-Light [INCOMPLETE INFORMATION, you must successfully summon one for a complete status file]
Summoning requirements: LANTERN 80, KNOCK 60, EDGE 60.

after some training she'll easily make the knock and edge DCs, especially with the rerolls. If we can get her a Lantern Artifact they're pretty good for her.

Baldomare
Summoning requirements: LANTERN 100, KNOCK 80, SECRET HISTORIES 60.

again, if we give her a Lantern artifact, she ends up being good at this. Though ideally we won't need to ever resummon Baldomare and just extend her current summoning instead.

Daughter-of-Axes
Summoning requirements: KNOCK 120, EDGE 60, WINTER 60.

...right now Velvet is better due to the rerolls. In the future, LUNA would be actually better.

Then again we're hoping to get the Frangiclave, so it should not become relevant.

Biedde
Summoning requirements: EDGE 100, KNOCK 80, MOTH 60.

she's actually not bad at it.

Maybe in a turn or two we can have HER summon Biedde? Would she be willing to give us the Name after, I wonder?

...would Luna here count as "rightful authority" or "Rebel" in the mindset of Lionsmith vs Colonel? She IS a Princess of Equestria, but she's sort of acting in secret from the de-facto "Queen"...


well, catching up on the discussion now

 

[Greymere]

The AotL is free and the SH influence call will be 30 bits. If we make a T3 SH reagent for either it or Jade's scry that would be an additional 45 bits leaving us with 201 bits.

Click to shrink...

The only reason to make a SH3 reagent is if we're going to use it on CoI. If we're going to spend it on Jade, we'd only need a SH2 reagent, and I'd argue that the CoI wouldn't be as worth doing since the chances of us getting a T3 or T4 Influence drops quite a bit.

The two RotTs will cost us a combined 70 bits leaving behind 131.

Click to shrink...

60 bits, actually. We have a 5 bit discount on all Lantern rituals now, remember?

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Good morning/day everyone.

Here is a small list of things I will change/add in the update later today. I also haven't read any of the questions, which I will only do much, much later.

Consider this my personal list of stuff, for me to remember to work on it later:

-Add the "Search Canterlot for an Outsider" action as a general action. Just remembered anypony can do it (but mostly Baldomare will be good at it).
-Add the caveat that Mareinette can perform your coming FleetOp with Comet Feet, since she can "step in" on your horseshoes.
-Add a note that "This is NOT a Fleeting Opportunity for this turn. But Velvet will receive a prompt that she should also look for a place in the Mansus where she can take an Outsider's blood, although the Forge-heavy place at the top of the Mansus seems like the obvious first place to look (Mansus action)"
-Change the "Non-Contested summoning" vote. I just realized that Luna can summon DoA with very little risk (+20 general bonus, +30 on all relevant Lores, plus +50 for Knock due to Reagent + Wrong Key). And she is willing to surrender the bindings immediately (Confidante). So, add option of "Have Luna do it instead", which is prefferable because it does NOT cost a precious Velvet action.

Hope you are all doing well. I might edit this list, or make more loose comments, as I think about more things.

Oh yeah, and someone asked. Each of Luna's training can only be picked and performed once. Her current cap is, again, 7hp and +30 general bonus. Let her take things one thing at a time.

 

[Greymere]

"Non-Contested summoning"

Click to shrink...

Wait, did it mention that it'd be non-contested before? Is this because if the Wrong Key (+1 priority) or is Copper actually giving up the opportunity to try and get another Name?

So, add option of "Have Luna do it instead", which is prefferable because it does NOT cost a precious Velvet action.

Click to shrink...

She doesn't have the Knock reroll though

 

[Pittauro]

-Info: Selene is your daughter, and you will brook no argument that claims the contrary. She may be Princess Luna, put to sleep due to powers beyond your comprehension. She may have been entrusted to you by her parents, somehow, rather than born from your own blood. But all that matters to you is that she is one of your fillies, and you have helped her grown every step of the way. The only issue you have with this whole situation is that, to this day, she has not yet called you "mother".

Click to shrink...

@OurLadyOfWires MAJOR ERROR THERE!

The votes for this one appear to be between training options, and I guess there'll be discussion over that. ^-^ I'm personally inclined for general bonus, since it's general, but there's no denying that the rest could be very useful as well, just depends on what we think is important for the moment. Health bonus, for example, helping with risk tolerance. The Lore options seem to be more "ability" related, being more abstract than pure numbers, though, from what we can see of the Moth ability.

Click to shrink...

well, each lore comes with a special power (the realization), AND once we've done all 3 we can also spend a training+velvet action to get ALL-4 (so +5 and rerolls to the lore actions), AND a +5 general AND +1 health.

So there's an argument to go for all the Lores first (potentially can be done in one turn depending on what Selene will prioritize), and then build up General.

Telling her to stay home and go all in on training would be just as much a mistake as not letting her train at all I feel.

She is part of the world. She needs to know it and it know her.

Given her own past. And her mission. I think Sending Luna on the expedition to free The DOA from her Durance Vile would be a big help.

Freeing someone who isn't her sister from their chains. Literal and metaphorical. And helping someone who was imprisoned just like she was.

Click to shrink...

I like it, but there's a problem of bits for that. I was thinking we'd do Velvet + Axe, if we have to add Luna too that's another 70 bits...

I wonder... could we get Luna to make herself known to some nobles in a dream and get "donations/patrons" that way?

Probably not doable and too risky, admittedly...

...do cultist still have a Dream Door? If so, we could have a dream-meeting with Copper.

Just imagine Velvet showing up with Luna "Hey Copper, I recruited Luna like the late Master wanted!"

You are Velvet Covers. And you're not sure why you saw your husband come downstairs, grab a jar, fill it with water, and then return back up. But you are quite sure you do not want to know.

Click to shrink...

Rite of Childhood's Nap's End! The Backup option!

…Hmm. Actually, thought. If we focused down all her training actions this turn, she would only need two next turn, and with one free that leaves her with an extra action. If we could also complete the Velvet AP to do the final action on that same turn—something to ask Bird—and then spend Selene's last AP summoning Biedde immediately after, all we would need is an Edge 3/Knock 1 reagent for her to get guarunteed success, ignoring nat1 interrupts anyways.

We just need to get Forge 4 this turn. And also be allowed to structure the actions in that order.

Click to shrink...

I was thinking that too.

Get the three realizations, the All-4, and then a general +5, and she's at GENERAL 30 + 20 (lores) + rerolls, which is much better than Velvet (who is 13 + 20 (lores for nearly everything) = 33 with reroll.

I do kinda want to get All-4 soon, yeah. It would be nice if we could afford to just get a Heart Influence from Marinette for the scraps, and had somewhere else to get one as well, and read the forge books to finish it off.

Click to shrink...

there's a chance of scrap from the SH Sacrament actions too, and of course Mansus exploration (wolf areas, moon tower and so on).

Side note... maybe we should have one of the Luna actions be "Keep watch over Velvet while doing SH Sacrament stuff to stop potentially-evil-Velvet from doing stuff"?

I will preface this by saying that there will be some mechanical changes, which will hopefully make planning smoother and easier. Those will be explained at the beginning of the next update, so don't worry about it right now.

Click to shrink...

yeah, plan-making was becoming quite a bit complex.

Any training Selene does will take effect at the end of the turn.

Click to shrink...

ok, so we pick first and she picks last. good to know.

I mostly hope she doesn't pick the +1 health, really. Any other gives more short-term benefits.

Considering that I fully expect the Frangiclave expedition to be a "Hard" 3-AP expedition? And our closest point of comparison would be BtRC pt.2, which is "Intermediate" and costs 7 bits/day per person? And that, at minimum, we'll want to bring DoA and ourselves?

Click to shrink...

to be fair that's the worst case. It's very likely we can finish it earlier than the "expected" length. But we need the bits just in case anyway.

From the current math, her cap after she finishes training appears to be 30, yes.

Click to shrink...

oh, so it IS the cap. good to know.

Beyond that, We can maybe work on giving her Sacraments (and we should be able to share Knock fairly soon, and there's chances for Winter, Moth and Edge).

...did we tell Selene about our potential sacrament by any chance?

"Current math. "Appears to be."

Sometimes I hate questing.

Click to shrink...

she's not finished growing you see!

CS has nothing to do with it. I've been at this kinda thing for a long time now, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that getting a solid answer out of a QM is about as easy as grabbing a cloud.

Click to shrink...

We have a pegasus husband and daughter (and an alicorn daughter!) to help!

I forget, is Soft a pegasus? contact list doesn't say.

Anyone who answers "she's a wolf" gets a BONK!

Yes, but not in a useful way that tells us anything past where they will be useful.

They are... the tools for Celestia.
Winter to resolve despite the heat.
Edge to push through and reach despite the fortress
Knock to unlock the path forward.

What those are, and how they are used in a general sense, I couldn't tell you. But they are the... the key pieces. And the Increase in Lore proficiency when all the training is done is a wonderful mirror to the child Selene training, which means... it is the pieces. It just reflects too perfectly not to be.

Click to shrink...

The fact we might be able to share our various sacraments with Luna makes Winter and Moth more tempting, I think.

They're BAD/EVIL actions, but if they help improving our odds of calming down Celestia... 3 random deaths and a "betrayal" (that's what Moth is, in my opinion) are potentially acceptable. and we have a safe option for Knock and hopefully a source of Edge in Biedde.

---

and now I'm at the CHANGELOG update

 

[Sveta08]

Alrighty! More awake now, so can try and put in my two cents.
Vague shaped plan that I think would work is....


[Detectives] Look at threats from without
[Constables] Follow Up
[Commissioner] Fair Trial talk or Deepen Loyalty with the Bureau


Short explainer: The detectives need some ideas of how to notice more things to be useful to us, or in their job. This is the way to do that. The Constables need to focus for a moment to get us results we can work with. But, if that gets swapped for a Velvet Action, no big loss. The Commissioner Action could be used for any deepening relationships actions, but those are the two that I feel will pay best.
On to the Followers.


[Exclusive Actions]
-[Rarity] Commission
-[Baldomare] Go have fun (commission bits +?) or Channel an Influence (Secret Histories)
-[Selene] Summon Ax

[General Actions]
-Search For Specific Artifact Lore ? Level 3


Short Explainer: I have not run the numbers for the odds of ritual casting or for searching Canterlot for the Outsider or for the Secret History Sacrament. But, I know the excess heaviness from Secret Histories Influence would greatly benefit all of those to the extent it can't rightly be ignored. Rarity taking the commission will give us the bits to float around with what we need otherwise, and Luna summoning Ax saves us an action. And as for the specific artifact search.... I don't know if that needs to be Lantern, Moth, or Secret Histories. But Moth to help hide Selene and shelter from Celestia is good, Lantern for assistance with RotT is helpful, and Secret Histories buffs will always be needed now.

Past that, I have no strong standing on follower actions

 

[Machine Elf]

You know, looking at this:

7 or higher: "The Paragon of Harmony walks upon Equestria. None shall find her wanting."

6: "The morning sun comes, and the horrors of the night flee from its bright gaze."

5: "Bowed, but unbroken. Shaken, but still determined. The sun's light was warmer, before, but its light is still there."

4: "The clouds are too heavy, too numerous. The sun is still there, but we cannot reach it, and it can no longer reach us."

3: "Will the sun ever rise again? It might have forsaken us. It might just not care anymore."

2: "The sun blazes with wrath. Her will shall no longer be denied."

1: "Dawnbreaker has come. If the Moon will not rise, then the Sun will never set."

0 or lower: "The Sun was divided, and this is its wound."

Click to shrink...

It seems to me that Status 3 is most likely "Celestia stops raising the sun, ponies have to take it over again."

Combine that with the knowledge that Celestia's gift to Cadance would have been the "other people can raise the sun" tool... I am reasonably sure that Celestia's Wedding Guest option would have given her +1 mood.

 

[Sveta08]

-snip

The fact we might be able to share our various sacraments with Luna makes Winter and Moth more tempting, I think.

They're BAD/EVIL actions, but if they help improving our odds of calming down Celestia... 3 random deaths and a "betrayal" (that's what Moth is, in my opinion) are potentially acceptable. and we have a safe option for Knock and hopefully a source of Edge in Biedde.

Click to shrink...

I would be inclined to agree.
But.

There is no coincidences. Those deaths may be random in a causal way. But I would water we would know one of them who would die. At least.

And what person do we know that we would so willingly give up? Remember, it is a lesson. In Winter.
What sort of lesson would it be if we didn't learn something?

 

[Greymere]

There is no coincidences. Those deaths may be random in a causal way. But I would water we would know one of them who would die. At least.

Click to shrink...

The Winter Sacrament explicitly will not target anyone on our contacts list. So yes, maybe we would know one of the targets, in a peripheral kind of way, but it won't be anyone we actually care about on a personal level.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

oh, so it IS the cap. good to know.

Beyond that, We can maybe work on giving her Sacraments (and we should be able to share Knock fairly soon, and there's chances for Winter, Moth and Edge).

...did we tell Selene about our potential sacrament by any chance?

Click to shrink...

Bird is probably being cheeky, if I had to guess the general body training options can be taken repeatedly. Presumably until she hits pre PtN levels. Hopefully it'll be closer to Celestia.

She doesn't have the Knock reroll though

Click to shrink...

Should we risk it? It would free up an AP. Though I have no clue what we'd do with it beyond a climbing or book reading action

The only reason to make a SH3 reagent is if we're going to use it on CoI. If we're going to spend it on Jade, we'd only need a SH2 reagent, and I'd argue that the CoI wouldn't be as worth doing since the chances of us getting a T3 or T4 Influence drops quite a bit.

Click to shrink...

60 bits, actually. We have a 5 bit discount on all Lantern rituals now, remember?

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the corrections, edits have been made.

 

[DelightedOne]

I forget, is Soft a pegasus? contact list doesn't say.

Click to shrink...

Yes. It was also the reason why the incident was particularly gruesome.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Anyways what do people think of subbing in the Edge 3 artefact instead making a reagent?

What about selling off the useless stuff we have like low level books, artefacts and reagents?

 

[spiderhellian]

I am a little worried about our own odds of raising Filthy to Good Friend (as opposed to Mareienette's). We haven't actually talked to him in a year, I'm not sure the single AP from us will do it. I'd much prefer Mareinette who is a social monster (in multiple senses of the word) because I think that guarantees getting him to Good Friend.

Biede's summon chance is too low for my liking, especially for the bits investment, and even if we do summon him the only task we can give him is either guarding us or scouting Copper, the former we can ask Comet or Selene to do and the later we were gonna task Marinette with seeing as Filthy's social is being deferred to the free social.

Click to shrink...

We're at 93% with an Edge 4 reagent (83% with Edge 3) and the Knock 2 artefact! That's pretty damn good!

Biedde can guard amazingly well (and I wonder if he might do so for free). We can also just… send him to attack Copper if we want.

Names are very good to have.

Anyways what do people think of subbing in the Edge 3 artefact instead making a reagent?

Click to shrink...

Hahahaha I was wondering about this. It is nice to have the get out of jail free card, and it's a big boost to our followers to have a good artefact in each area… but 45 bits is non-trivial.