Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

I mean, honestly I tried to justify taking the resent option, just as due diligence. But I can't justify it at all. We worried so much about Selene when the time came for us to explain everything we did wrong but she said there was nothing to forgive. We didn't just do worse in general, we did worse to specifically Selene and she forgave us like it was nothing.

I assume that taking the obvious choice means we don't get mechanical benefits like confidante AP and the entire AP we spent on this FO goes to waste, but such is life.

 

[Fouredged]

Yeah, I cannot remember a single moment in Velvet's narrative where she actually seemed to resent him. Suddenly doing so now feels... in discord from everything that came before. Not in a harmony/discord sense, but in a narrative storytelling sense.

 

[DelightedOne]

...Also, does anyone else sees the death flags behind Steppes?

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Yep, the cold, the part that said he has reached the end of his life, the tiredness, him looking particularly old that night, this-

Not unlike how a colt would wish on a rare shooting star, except Velvet Steppes is no longer a colt, and there are no longer any stars on his sky.

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And also the part where this was a FO.

It would be so nice-angsty if Steppes died knowing his niece forgives him for not saving her.

 

[Greymere]

I'm honestly looking at delaying our SH Sacrament by yet another turn. Hear me out before rejecting that. If we spend our Baldomare action on a max level Lantern influence, we have a very strong chance of reading the Moth book in a single roll with a Lantern AotL, which means we can do two study AP and study all of Lantern 4 artifact, Winter 4 artifact, Moth 5 book, manehattan expedition book, and possibly the Knock 5 book all in one turn (I don't think we need to worry about emergency Baldomare reserve). That's an absurd amount of value for a Name influence action, being rolled 5 times in one turn.

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I could get behind this, tbh. Well, maybe not the Knock book, unless we manage to work through absolutely everything else of value and still have an empty slot left over. If we also have someone go look for a 3-circle site (e.g. Selene on RotT) next turn, we might even actually be able to finally start calling lesser spirits who, if nothing else, should provide decent generic action coverage (e.g. trying to scrounge up Heart books or more expedition sites) and Cover Your Bases fodder for when we need it.

[] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[spiderhellian]

I think this is one of those circumstances where our perspective as players might not be aligned with Velvet's.

Because we've only known Steppes as our beloved mafia Uncle. We don't have a grudge against him, or really see anything to forgive.

But this is actually a huge revelation. And I'm not sure Velvet would forgive so easily.

You can say that Velvet has done worse. Sure, RAs are bad, not arguing about that. But for all her faults, Velvet. Always. Tried.

In fact, that's all too often her downfall. Yes, she will participate in the ritual. No, no one else can be trusted with Selene. Yes, Softy, you're my daughter, of course you are.

The one time we declined that duty and that responsibility — Twilight — it went pretty awfully. About as awfully as how our Uncle declining Velvet went, until she got absurdly lucky.

I don't think Velvet will resent him, but I don't think she should forgive him.

 

[des-pair-2]

I think this is one of those circumstances where our perspective as players might not be aligned with Velvet's.

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Maybe. The way I see it, we often asked for his advice when it became an option, and that doesn't speak of resentment.

All this hurt he is talking about, about what he did and what he should've done, to Velvet it might as well seem like he is talking about a different pony. And in the end, what he did lead to her meeting her husband and her daughter, and that just probably wouldn't happen if he took her away.

So I think that she would forgive him without resentment the same way an adult might indulge a foal asking a question with an obvious answer.

 

[spiderhellian]

All this hurt he is talking about, about what he did and what he should've done, to Velvet it might as well seem like he is talking about a different pony

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But it didn't.

To us, yes, it feels like it happened to a different Pony. One we've never seen and do not know,

But not to Velvet. Not to Velvet, who just remembered everything that happened, for the first time in forever.

Yes, she got lucky. She got very, very lucky. I agree that she should not resent Steppes.

I don't think she should forgive him.

 

[Greymere]

I don't think she should forgive him.

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Tbh, I just don't really see the point in introducing even more drama to the narrative. I don't really care about we (or Velvet) "should" do or feel here, because we have a baker's dozen people's worth of ongoing shit to deal with and I am exactly 0% interested in deciding to make this any sort of problem, especially for something that I don't think would actually add to the narrative in an interesting or satisfying way while we're busy trying to ramp up into the endgame.

 

[spiderhellian]

Tbh, I just don't really see the point in introducing even more drama to the narrative. I don't really care about we (or Velvet) "should" do or feel here, because we have a baker's dozen people's worth of ongoing shit to deal with and I am exactly 0% interested in deciding to make this any sort of problem, especially for something that I don't think would actually add to the narrative in an interesting or satisfying way while we're busy trying to ramp up into the endgame.

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Let's be real, we have no idea which options cause or don't cause problems downstream. Intentionally. If Bird wanted us thinking about that, I think he would have given us something to go on. We have zilch.

I don't want to make this based on what we think the resulting effects will be, because truly, we have no clue.

We should make it based on Velvet and what we want her reaction to be.

And I think not forgiving, but not resenting, fits the best.

 

[Greymere]

Let's be real, we have no idea which options cause or don't cause problems downstream. Intentionally. If Bird wanted us thinking about that, I think he would have given us something to go on. We have zilch.

I don't want to make this based on what we think the resulting effects will be, because truly, we have no clue.

We should make it based on Velvet and what we want her reaction to be.

And I think not forgiving, but not resenting, fits the best.

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Like I said, I don't care about that. What I care about is "Velvet now having hang-ups about Steppes" getting into the narrative when I think it would be boring at best and actively annoying at worst while we have bigger, more important, and more interesting fish to fry at this stage of the quest.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I think it would be boring at best and actively drag it down at worst

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I understand feeling this way. And I assume (although this is not a "gotcha" or anything) that you did not vote to pick the Steppes FO during the mid-turn vote, after we left the Knock Sacrament with one action point remaining.

So, truly, I understand you just not being interested in Steppes. And that is fine.

But people voted for this. And the option to see what this FO was about won.

I get it if you think this is boring. But if you think of it the other way, maybe some people want to tie this loose thread precisely because we are so close to the end.

Yes, the Glory is right there. But I won't stop people from wanting to enjoy the ride a little more.

Anyways, sorry you do not appreciate this particular beat of the story. I hope we get back to what you are interested in soon enough!

Cheers everyone. I'll be back later.

 

[Rafuki22]

Remember that OurLady takes into account the voters discussion.

Edit: Speaking of...

We should make it based on Velvet and what we want her reaction to be.

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I would like to think that she would forgive him.

And i think that pondering about what ifs is not productive.

 

[Greymere]

I understand feeling this way. And I assume (although this is not a "gotcha" or anything) that you did not vote to pick the Steppes FO during the mid-turn vote, after we left the Knock Sacrament with one action point remaining.

So, truly, I understand you just not being interested in Steppes. And that is fine.

But people voted for this. And the option to see what this FO was about won.

I get it if you think this is boring. But if you think of it the other way, maybe some people want to tie this loose thread precisely because we are so close to the end.

Yes, the Glory is right there. But I won't stop people from wanting to enjoy the ride a little more.

Anyways, sorry you do not appreciate this particular beat of the story. I hope we get back to what you are interested in soon enough!

Cheers everyone. I'll be back later.

Click to shrink...

It's not necessarily that I feel the Steppes action itself is boring (though I do wish we'd have done something else). But it does feel like this is going to, or at least has the potential to, create more new loose threads that we will have to deal with and resolve rather than tying up existing ones. Which is why I say I think it'd be boring and/or annoying to go with not-forgive/resentment, because we already have so much stuff to deal with (edit: and I don't want to add Velvet-Steppes complicated relationship stuff on top of it).

 

[Rafuki22]

because we already have so much stuff to deal with.

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Understandable, but sometimes that's just how it is.

Maybe it will be good, or not.

Hindsight can be cruel.

 

[Wind_of_Helheim]

So, I'm thinking it's not about Uncle Stepples. It's about us. About Velvet. It's about how others "in the know" will look at our actions, after it all ends. How we will judge him - the same will go for us.

 

[Sveta08]

She...
The Velvet I see and I think of when I think Velvet...

She could not resent Stepps. His inaction brought Stormy into her life. To resent that is .. unthinkable.
But I do not see her forgiving. She...

Velvet is a mare defined by her choices. Her actions. And yes, her inaction.
But every hand that reached out. Every voice that cried suffering. Every wish and every prary. She tried.

He didn't. And he ran.

There... Is a phrase.
"I do not forgive. But I do forget"
And that's what Velvet has done. She cannot forgive. But she has forgotten. The chains are his, and she would not hold them to him. But she would not force him to let go. Not when she looks at herself.

Do not forgive. But forget.

 

[Fouredged]

But it didn't.

To us, yes, it feels like it happened to a different Pony. One we've never seen and do not know,

But not to Velvet. Not to Velvet, who just remembered everything that happened, for the first time in forever.

Yes, she got lucky. She got very, very lucky. I agree that she should not resent Steppes.

I don't think she should forgive him.

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I mean, my read of the situation is it kinda did, at least as Velvet saw things. Steppes feels like he abandoned her and that this was a pivotal and defining thing that happened.

But when he mentions it to Velvet her reaction was kinda "huh, I guess that did happen."

Like, to Steppes the abandonment was an unforgivable think he would never forget his whole life.

But to Velvet, in that moment, it was a longshot that didn't pay out but cost her nothing, and she had so much else going on that she didn't even really grock that he left her.

She just stopped being able to see her uncle. It was one bad thing in a tornado of awful that was the lowest moment of her life. To Steppes it was unforgivable. To Velvet... It was her young adulthood.

The pony that Steppes envisioned being destroyed by his abandonment doesn't exist. Real Velvet's suffering was real, but it's source was not Steppes. She was destroyed and reforged, but not by him.

I don't get the impression that she thought to blame him right up until this point when he pointed out he blamed himself.

She could legit turn to him and look him in the eyes and say "I have never even considered it that way, nor do I ever think I will." And it would be honest.

 

[DelightedOne]

Honestly, the Velvet I see is the forgiving type as long as you don't do something she deems unforgivable(attacking her family or actively trying to kill her are the only things that come to mind, but there are more for sure).

She also, as others mentioned, did not care at all about Steppes abandoning her until he mentioned it in the first place, the first time we met him she was so fucking happy I found it weird. How come the mare who actively ignores her extended family is happy to see her uncle?

Because she loves him, even after he left she held the happy feelings he helped her make with care and cherished them through her life and her journey with us.

I know what he did was awful, HE knows what he did was awful, but Velvet never cared and so I think that is how we should keep it. She is doing so much better now, I just don't want to take one of the few lights she has(even if that light is flickering and will not be seen outside of her memory in the near future).

This also feels like he is trying to make Velvet hate him like he hates himself(oh my glob that shit is genetic) and I want to stop it for him like I hope we will stop it for Velvet one day.

 

[Sveta08]

I don't know.

Part of me wonders what sort of person Velvet wants to be, and how she tries for that.
Part of me wonders what type of person Velvet is, and how she struggles against her nature.

I think she would want to forgive, but don't know if she would. She wouldn't resent him I feel. But forgiveness...

She cares. She loves. She is vibrant and bright and hurt in unknowable ways.
She's mortal, and fights to be more, for the sake of her and hers.
She emulates the divine, in so far that this world knows and remembers them.

I think she wants to forgive him. I know she doesn't resent him.



...maybe.
Maybe lantern light isn't needed here.
Maybe it's okay the world is bent.
Maybe it's okay to forgive him.

 

[Arrkhon]

The simple fact is that something as minor as abandonment(and not even a overt one) over decade ago that she forgot about isn't something Velvet would care much about, especially with all the things she has going on right now, yeah it sucks but most people wouldn't really care after this amount of time

 

[Nevermort]

Okay, time for some analysis. Options are vague enough that most conjectures would be more wrong than correct, but there is still enough information to make some guesses.

Velvet forgiving but resenting is either Velvet bottling it all up or planning to get back at her Uncle. My first guess is asking about his business and getting an Expedition out of it, with options to send in Bureau , Names, or leave it alone.

Velvet not forgiving , and resenting is telling Steppes things as they are, a harsh truth. Their relationship will never be the same, but Steppes may appreciate honesty. It does not mean that they will cut ties entirely, but maybe make them more business like?

Velvet not forgiving , and not resenting seems like an attempt to distance herself from Steppes, perhaps because she decides not to involve him with her shit, when it so close to hitting the fan. Steppes would likely leave, quietly die off screen and leave Velvet some legacy of his.

Velvet forgiving , and not resenting is kind of opposite I think? Like it may be situation where Velvet decides to be honest and confess some of her own things. When Steppes talked about scar that will never heal I wondered if Velvet would show Uncle that it indeed healed to cheer him up.


Am I getting anything correct? Probably not, but it would be interesting to compare with actual results.

 

[ses]

I could get behind this, tbh. Well, maybe not the Knock book, unless we manage to work through absolutely everything else of value and still have an empty slot left over. If we also have someone go look for a 3-circle site (e.g. Selene on RotT) next turn, we might even actually be able to finally start calling lesser spirits who, if nothing else, should provide decent generic action coverage (e.g. trying to scrounge up Heart books or more expedition sites) and Cover Your Bases fodder for when we need it.

[] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

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Basically my thought process is
1) I refuse to support a plan that studies the moth book without a Lantern influence of some kind. -50 to decipher rolls is brutal and I want to guarantee that if we spend a reading AP we get to read the expedition book too.
2) doing a triple-book + double artifact study in the same turn is 40*5=200 points of guaranteed Lantern bonus from a max level Lantern influence, which is easily worth a Name action or a Velvet AP on a called influence.
3) I was originally going to suggest Calling of Lantern/Soft Sweep's Request/Study/Study/SH(Baldomare) for next turn, but the Forge Name showed up
4) We have been repeatedly taught that it is always the correct move to collect Names and benefit from their actions. We could Forge Sacrament on turn 23 if we use its first action on a Forge lesson and second action on a max level Forge influence! And that's if it doesnt offer a really easy Invitation sacrament! Our personal Forge is actually one of the most appealing personal sacraments we have on offer as well: no moral conundrums, fairly easy to do with an Influence, AND most likely a useful sacrament perk via buff potions. We were only held back by lack of scraps. And there's every chance that the invitation might be better.

If we take the Baldomare Lantern influence instead we free up two Velvet AP, and can spend 1 of them on the Forge Name summoning, as well as the fact that we dont pay 30 bits for the called influence or 40 bits for the hike ensuring we have the budget to summon Forge Name and get Baldomare's friendship on lock by being able to name-bomb the level 7 book expedition. I really want to send Biedde as well as Axe at minimum since combat hurdles are both likely and hard for Axe to solo. Possibly Selene if it's only a medium expedition and not a long one.

And yes the Knock book is just in case we oneshot the Moth book via influence+attention. It's only like a coinflip to oneshot the moth book even with both of those buffs. I'm not too concerned about Baldomare reserve since we have an entire extra turn if the expedition somehow fails next turn. And I really want our faction to get more serious about expedition spam either way.

 

[Nevermort]

We can outsource Forge Name summoning to Luna or DoA. Forge requirement is covered by money and they have appropriate Knock levels.

 

[Greymere]

We can outsource Forge Name summoning to Luna or DoA. Forge requirement is covered by money and they have appropriate Knock levels.

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I don't know, considering the flavor text of the ritual...

"You will let your hoofs guide you. You will let your love shape it. And you will let fate decide on the rest.
Just as She did before."

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This really seems like something Velvet should do herself.

 

[ses]

Velvet is too young and elegant to be a grandmother, thank you very much!

 

[Greymere]

If we take the Baldomare Lantern influence instead we free up two Velvet AP, and can spend 1 of them on the Forge Name summoning, as well as the fact that we dont pay 30 bits for the called influence or 40 bits for the hike ensuring we have the budget to summon Forge Name and get Baldomare's friendship on lock by being able to name-bomb the level 7 book expedition. I really want to send Biedde as well as Axe at minimum since combat hurdles are both likely and hard for Axe to solo. Possibly Selene if it's only a medium expedition and not a long one.

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Actually, there maaay be a bit of a hiccup regarding this.

Mainly that we still lack a location to do 3-circle rituals in. And while atypical, the Rite of Joyous Reforging is listed under the three-circle rituals.

 

[Alan975]

I don't think that Velvet is some paragon of kindness, we've done so many abhorrent things yet people talk about Velvet not being a resentful mare?

For most other ponies, I'd go for no absolution, but this is a matter of Family.

[] You will tell him that you forgive him. But deep down, you still resent him.

What he did was not okay, trying to argue around that is pointless and hypocritical because I'm not seeing anyone suggesting that dear old dad should get a pass?

Stepps however has done something that should give him some leeway, he has tried.
Not enough, not often and not equivalent to what he did, but it should be enough for a white lie.

Velvet can stomach her feelings, for an old man's last moments and for her daughters.



Do also consider what it would say, to forgive for something that is no bother.
You talk of Harmony and love, but how is that anything but an empty platitude?

For it to truly be forgiveness, the victim must see it as something to forgive.

 

[DelightedOne]

Actually, there maaay be a bit of a hiccup regarding this.

Mainly that we still lack a location to do 3-circle rituals in. And while atypical, the Rite of Joyous Reforging is listed under the three-circle rituals.

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Biedde's action for next turn? Or are we willing to get Baldomare in ritual place searching again?

 

[Nevermort]

Velvet is too young and elegant to be a grandmother, thank you very much!

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I don't see a problem . As our adopted ponies start to adopt ponies on their own our adoption ability increases exponentially!

 

[ses]

Actually, there maaay be a bit of a hiccup regarding this.

Mainly that we still lack a location to do 3-circle rituals in. And while atypical, the Rite of Joyous Reforging is listed under the three-circle rituals.

Click to shrink...

Names are important enough to be worth rolling the dice on doing it in the barn in my opinion. We did TWO name summonings before we burned through the Obscurity card as I recall? Assuming that it's the same dieroll with or without an Obscurity shield, a Forge Name is well worth 50% chance of servant suspicion.