Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[ses]

???

??????

Are we considering +30 Lore bonuses pointless now? Barely even a couple of turns after we sent an entire trio of Names plus an alicorn just to kill a single, mortal pony for the explicit purpose of covering all of our bases?

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25 bits and zero AP is a lot different than 125 bits and their full turns. Sending extra names on short expeditions is easy fun and profitable. For a long expedition we are absolutely going to need to rely on Axe's general bonus plus artifacts and fun sized Forge name. See how we've repeatedly failed to find room in the bits and AP budget for BTRC 3.

Axe was literally designed to solo long expeditions. This is what she's there for.

 

[DelightedOne]

Hell it might even be Windy.

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Cloudsdale indicates a Pegasus, Windy was an Earth Pony from what I remember.

Whatever is involved though Copper thought it was worthwhile which means it's probably pretty valuable.

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Copper was also very petty and controlling from what we saw.

And the description states that it could be a thief or a traitor(just please don't be Zephyr Breeze). So I'm not really vibing with an expedition called "debt collection" being that important.

Look, given Celestia's Celestianess that's the least likely victory for us to get. We're on the end run and have no way of dealing with our Daybreaker problem which I believe were pretty sure locks out that Victory.

Even if we recreate the path half of the key is lost to us.

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Remember what we talked about? That we would wait before stating anything about this subject?

We still have no definitive confirmation of it being impossible to defeat Daybreaker and saving Celestia, so we wait till Selene tells Velvet what happened while she soothed the night this turn.

 

[Greymere]

25 bits and zero AP is a lot different than 125 bits and their full turns. Sending extra names on short expeditions is easy fun and profitable. For a long expedition we are absolutely going to need to rely on Axe's general bonus plus artifacts and fun sized Forge name. See how we've repeatedly failed to find room in the bits and AP budget for BTRC 3

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BTRC3 isn't the key to a Name's permanent loyalty, and it's never been anywhere close to a priority. Long expeditions, especially one for a Level 7 book, are also going to be more difficult. The exact kind of situation where the oomph of sending more than a single Name is absolutely warranted.

 

[Shaper47]

We're almost certainly going to need to send multiple Names on a long expedition (which is CRITICAL),

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And "we don't have the AP" isn't even true. The only possibly scenario where that could be true is if, for some reason, you are prioritizing the Manehattan expeditions over Name friendship missions.

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We don't have the bits for a long expedition for multiple Names given your instance on wasting any chance of us gaining bits all the time.

We'd need at least 360 bits for a long expedition to go after a level 7 book. Baldomare, Axe and Mareinette at very least.

Which runs counter to our priorities to befriend our Forge Name and hide from Celestia. Not to mention a SH Sacrament or any other Sacraments like Winter. There's also people's insistence on paying Biedde and also refusing to use him to get bits.

The math just doesn't add up.

Which is why need these expeditions to gain loot probably in the form of bits.

Cloudsdale indicates a Pegasus, Windy was an Earth Pony from what I remember.

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We could have lived at Cloudsdale and we're a Unicorn.

 

[DelightedOne]

We could have lived at Cloudsdale and we're a Unicorn.

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Wait, what? Was it mentioned somewhere? Because the only options we had for where Velvet would live were: Ponyville, Canterlot, the Crystal Empire and Manehattan.

 

[Greymere]

We don't have the bits for a long expedition for multiple Names given your instance on wasting any chance of us gaining bits all the time.

We'd need at least 360 bits for a long expedition to go after a level 7 book. Baldomare, Axe and Mareinette at very least.

Which runs counter to our priorities to befriend our Forge Name and hide from Celestia. Not to mention a SH Sacrament or any other Sacraments like Winter. There's also people's insistence on paying Biedde and also refusing to use him to get bits.

The math just doesn't add up.

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Yeah we would need at least 360 bits. And guess what, Shaper?

We're gonna have at least 500 bits next turn, possibly 550 depending on Rarity's exact dividend numbers, considering there's a snowball's chance in hell that we don't have Rarity on commission. Are you really going to argue that 500/550 bits isn't enough to pay for the reagent expedition and sending three Names (+mini-Kolt) on the book expedition? Especially when, considering the degree of coverage that would result in, they'd be practically guarenteed to not actually use up the full 360 bits?

We absolutely can afford it. Sure, maybe we'd have to delay the SH Sacrament (again). But also, again, the chances of the Name Brigade actually using up the full 360 bits is rather low, which should leave plenty of bits for our SH Sacrament.

Edit: Also, let it be known that you were the one to bring up sending four/three-and-a-half? Names. My suggestion was going to be to send Mareinette + DoA w/ mini-Kolt (and just eat the Mayor Mare social ourselves), which between our artifacts and their native Lore levels gets them to a minimum of +65 on any particular roll, higher on some of them. And would be an estimated 240 bits.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

@OurLadyOfWires

Do we have any details on how Mayor Mare would be affected and why?
I mean what is Velvet justification for befriending her would be or is it OOC warning?
Because if say she breaks leg and in emergency vote Soft is appointed new town mayor I would not mind it that much

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Why yes, you do have details on how Mayor Mare would be affected.

"Negatively"

But to be honest, this is mostly an OOC warning. I don't mind "fair" curveballs. But ponies on your contacts list are things I hold a bit closer to my heart than the ones not in there.

So, no further hints other than this OOC "fair warning".

just to remove the doubt:

@OurLadyOfWires can a Risen lead an expedition (with a name in it)?

I'm assuming no.

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This is a grey area on the narrative side (their intelligence).

But in Cultist Simulator you can (as far as I remember) send any summoned creature to do an expedition. Even the ones that... well, even Hints (who can cut you, but also feel incorporeal and/or live inside mirrors, and most likely wouldn't have need for supplies and whatnot despite ALSO having the "devourer" trait").
Plus, I personally feel Risen would be a bit too useless if they cant be used for the "short expedition cheese". I mean, I designed short expeditions to need only the AP of one character precisely so low-end characters could be dumped on it.

So, since the narrative side is grey, and the mechanical side tells me "yeah", I'm comfortable with "yes, Risen can lead expeditions."



Let me know if there is anything else you want from me (other than the next update).

 

[Shaper47]

Yeah we would need at least 360 bits. And guess what, Shaper?

We're gonna have at least 500 bits next turn, possibly 550 depending on Rarity's exact dividend numbers

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Are you really going to argue that 500/550 bits isn't enough to pay for the reagent expedition and sending three Names (+mini-Kolt) on the book expedition?

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Let's do the Math.

Current bits turn 22: 105 - 60 (rituals) + 200 (auto escape artifact sold) = 245 bits (have we paid Biedde already? I think we have?)

Turn 23: 160 (Salary) + 245 (carryover) + 150? (commission + contract) - 60 (Biedde wastage) - 30 (Medicine) = 465

If the Forge Reagent requires a medium expedition it would cost 140 bits (Axe + Mareinette (or other social leader)), also preventing Axe from joing a long expedition that turn.

465 - 140 = 325

You'd need Rarity to gather 185 bits which is more then she's even gotten us via commission and even then the math doesn't add up to send Axe on a Medium and Long term expedition in the same turn.

So you'd probably end up a handful of bits short and definitely one Axe ap short.

Unless of course you think one of the highest level Reagents is going to be found on a short expedition?

 

[Greymere]

Let's do the Math.

Current bits turn 22: 105 - 90 (rituals) + 200 (auto escape artifact sold) = 215 bits

Turn 23: 160 (Salary) + 215 (carryover) + 150? (commission + contract) - 60 (Biedde wastage) = 465

If the Forge Reagent requires a medium expedition it would cost 140 bits (Axe + Mareinette (or other social leader)), also preventing Axe from joing a long expedition that turn.

465 - 140 = 325

You'd need Rarity to gather 185 bits which is more then she's even gotten us via commission and even then the math doesn't add up to send Axe on a Medium and Long term expedition in the same turn.

So you'd probably end up a handful of bits short and definitely one Axe ap short.

Unless of course you think one of the highest level Reagents is going to be found on a short expedition?

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1) Kindly go back and check what the cost of RotT is, and then how many we are casting this turn. I'm sure you'll be surprised.

2) Again, why would you send your strongest team on the expedition most likely to be less difficult. DoA + Mareinette + Cherenkolt (Mini) is who you send for the Level 7 book. Send Selene after the reagent, for Glory's sake. Selene + Cherenkolt (Mini) + assorted artifacts is only weak in the Grail department, and at least she still has her +30 general.

3) It might be short, it might be medium. Who knows. I think it could be a short expedition seeing as we've literally already seen that it is possible for Level 6 items to be found on short (and easy) expeditions. Either way, Selene can handle it. Or if you really don't want to spend 2 AP on a medium expedition, have someone else lead and spend 1 Selene AP to follow. Again, unlikely to actually use up the full bit cost, but honestly I'd rather just eat the -2 Selene AP for the turn. Worth it for Forge Name Friendship.

4) As I said, my suggested team is Mareinette + DoA + Cherenkolt (Mini). This is estimated to cost 240 bits, not 360, and even if you did also send Biedde (or Selene) along to bump the allocated bits up to 360, the chance of them actually using up all of the allocated bits are looooow considering how stacked that team is.

 

[Shaper47]

1) Kindly go back and check what the cost of RotT is, and then how many we are casting this turn. I'm sure you'll be surprised.

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Right wrong ritual, is actually 30 bits cheaper then I thought.

Still just misses the amount we'll probably need though.

4) As I said, my suggested team is Mareinette + DoA + Cherenkolt (Mini). This is estimated to cost 240 bits, not 360, and even if you did also send Biedde along to bump the allocated bits up to 360, the chance of them actually using up all of the allocated bits are looooow considering how stacked the team is.

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???

Where's Biedde coming from?

I suggested that we'll probably need to send Baldomare.

Your underestimating the difficulty of the expedition here by a lot.

2) Again, why would you send your strongest team on the expedition most likely to be less difficult. DoA + Mareinette + Cherenkolt (Mini) is who you send for the Level 7 book. Send Selene after the reagent, for Glory's sake. Selene + Cherenkolt (Mini) + assorted artifacts is only weak in the Grail department, and at least she still has her +30 general.

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Because Axe has a plus 50 expedition bonus on everything except social.

Selene might be able to do it by herself with enough artifacts but sending Selene is a pretty big waste.

That wasting like two scrying actions for the equivalent of an inferior Axe ap.

 

[Greymere]

Because Axe has a plus 50 expedition bonus on everything except social.

Selene might be able to do it by herself with enough artifacts but sending Selene is a pretty big waste.

That wasting like two scrying actions for the equivalent of an inferior Axe ap.

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???

Where's Biedde coming from?

I suggested that we'll probably need to send Baldomare.

Your underestimating the difficulty of the expedition here by a lot.

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As the Name least likely to be preoccupied with Sacrament Things? You could throw Selene or Baldomare in that spot instead, doesn't affect my point in the slightest regarding the cost and the likelihood of actually having to use all of it (low).

Regardless, first you say that DoA should be sent after the likely less difficult expedition. Then, you claim that I'm underestimating the difficulty of the book expedition when my proposed team includes the Name with the expedition bonus (and a minimum bonus of +65 on any obstacle). Which is it? Is the book expedition going to be so difficult that we should commit to doing the best we can, or is it actually not going to be that bad and we can afford to send the expedition specialist off to do something completely different? Make up your mind.

 

[Arrkhon]

Reminder that if we really need an extra AP on the next turn we can always go for Moth/Grail double sacrament and just use that one prisoner for something else like Lantern sacrament or a free snack later on

 

[Shaper47]

Regardless, first you say that DoA should be sent after the likely less difficult expedition. Then, you claim that I'm underestimating the difficulty of the book expedition when my proposed team includes the Name with the expedition bonus (and a minimum bonus of +65 on any obstacle). Which is it?

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Is the book expedition going to be so difficult that we should commit to doing the best we can, or is it actually not going to be that bad and we can afford to send the expedition specialist off to do something completely different? Make up your mind.

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???

I fail to understand how you fail to understand that it's both.

We need to do are best to succeed on both expeditions.

Which means instead of going in half fast and probably failing anyways on both expeditions wasting a ton of ap and bits just prioritize one must succeed expedition at a time.

In this case that means doing the Forge Reagent expedition this turn instead of incompetent flailing at what is probably one of the hardest expeditions possible.

Maybe it might be possible to do the expeditions on the cheap but I heavily doubt it.

 

[Solace2117]

Outside of give her nothing I don't think any of the options were ideal at this point in the quest. We got here cause we failed a check, there may be some benefit, but ultimately it happened because of a failure we're mitigating. I also don't think the Wolf Cult is a real issue as long as we don't commit another RA. Freedom could have been interesting, but I still doubt it was worth the investment at this point. With just a little effort we can protect Mayor mare, potentially making her semi useful, give Soft Sweeps a goal, and maybe get some passive benefits in the background. Still not ideal, but not a huge setback.

 

[DelightedOne]

We got here cause we failed a check

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Failed a check and didn't want to spend 2 free socials over 3 turns.

 

[Greymere]

Failed a check and didn't want to spend 2 free socials over 3 turns.

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And now we're going to have to spend 2 socials anyway, btwn this turn's Soft social and making sure Mayor Mare doesn't get shoveled by the Wolf cult.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

You know, I am still confused about what Biedde has in store for Steppes. I think he wants Steppes to become a Dyad…? But with who? Hills? Or is is just initial edge teachings? Or am I understanding it all wrong?

 

[DelightedOne]

And now we're going to have to spend 2 socials anyway, btwn this turn's Soft social and making sure Mayor Mare doesn't get shoveled by the Wolf cult.

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Don't forget the decision between losing the Leash for an unknow amount of time(Shining took about 3 turns) or using Mareinette's action.

Oh and of course the fact the Daughter now will get more influence over the future beating heart of Equestria but it is not like the Wolf will ever do anything about that huh?

-You have witnessed its main entrance, as it held and endured with the solidity of a wall and the perseverance of a singer. It is a gate, as solid and immobile as stone, but it is also an exposed, beating heart. You need only jaws wide enough to bite it. [You may freely enter the Temple of the Wheel if you decide to violate it. This is a Regrettable Action.]

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You know, I am still confused about what Biedde has in store for Steppes. I think he wants Steppes to become a Dyad…? But with who? Hills? Or is is just initial edge teachings? Or am I understanding it all wrong?

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You're not the only one that is confused. I'm pretty sure we aren't supposed to know what it is just yet.

My guess is just "use criminal to further influence in the Wake and renew faith in the Colonel".

 

[Solace2117]

Oh and of course the fact the Daughter now will get more influence over the future beating heart of Equestria but it is not like the Wolf will ever do anything about that huh?

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Or Velvet could reach Glory at her current stain level and Soft Sweeps could continue to make the Wolf more into an emotional support dog. Either way I think you're worried way too much about the Wolf Cult as it is now. If we gain another stain and the seed in our daughter blooms I think we'll have issues. Obviously they're not nothing, but in the grand scheme of threats we have bigger worries.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

Soft Sweeps could continue to make the Wolf more into an emotional support dog.

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I would hope to God that this would happen, because it's good and mostly because its FUNNY.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up of I were you. It's the Wolf after all.

 

[Solace2117]

I would hope to God that this would happen, because it's good and mostly because its FUNNY.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up of I were you. It's the Wolf after all.

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I mean that's basically what they're doing, though I'm mostly joking based on an offhand comment the QM made. Though I may be misremembering it, and it wasn't serious either way.

 

[DelightedOne]

Hard to believe the Wolf cult will keep being chill when we just gave them a goal to strive for.

And thanks to Miss Sweeps, they can also speak about their purpose.

Even if they do not fully understand it themselves.

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So, wouldn't it be nice if they found another reason to gather?

And since they had so much success in helping each other, wouldn't it be nice if they found a way to help even more ponies? Maybe all of Ponyville? Maybe even all of Equestria?

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They all needed something to keep themselves busy, she said.

They all needed a place to belong, she said.

And she recently had an idea of what they could do next.

"She's, um, like a mom to me. I know I talk about her all the time, a-and I'm sorry if I'm just repeating myself! Oh, and please, I am not trying to take advantage of her or anything, especially given how important she is. But… would anypony mind if I brought her here? Sometimes I feel like she knows the answer to everything, and she definitely knows how to do things that matter. So maybe if she comes, she could…?"

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Because yes, that's what comes next.

Her motherly figure, who she talks about all the time. The one who kept her going. The one who always knows what to do.

This was, without a doubt, the next signpost they were being given by their precious Soft Sweeps.

She would finally give them a moment of the time, even if it was just a word, from the one who guides her as well.

Discussions on what they could do, and how to prepare, began immediately, and went well into the night.

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And just like that, a group of grieving ponies, determined to help as many as they can, started planning a meeting with a very important figure.

And just like that, a group of grieving ponies, united in purpose and seeking the truth, started planning an audience with the one who gifted them purpose.

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And considering we have confirmation they will start killing outside of their mini cult

Answer 2: "Flip that on its head. Is it really a cult if they don't have a leader? It's at most a..." (looks at the pony walking towards Mayor Mare's house with a shovel) "... a very enthusiastic fan club."

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Yeah, they are getting worse, maybe not regretably but mundanely. And once more we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Solace2117]

They've also been described as the cult equivalent of 3 foals in a trench coat. Could they be a problem at some point, maybe, but there's lots of problems out there and they're just not that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DelightedOne]

The vote that makes them "relevant in the grand scheme of things" just won...

And their cult organization equivalent is not a 1:1 of how dangerous they are or how much damage they can cause. Killing the mayor of one of the most metaphysically important towns should be considered a big thing.

 

[Limabot]

The vote that makes them "relevant in the grand scheme of things" just won...

And their cult organization equivalent is not a 1:1 of how dangerous they are or how much damage they can cause. Killing the mayor of one of the most metaphysically important towns should be considered a big thing.

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We don't know what the Therapy Group will actually try and do to the Mayor, other than that it would in some way be bad for her. For all we know, it could be something as petty as having her house be robbed or losing an election to a scandal related to working with them.

Also, the Therapy Group in its current form is mainly a threat to its own members, and seems to be appealing to a specific form of trauma-based neurosis in a way that keeps them from actually processing their emotions in a healthy way. Having it be larger isn't a good thing, but if they still lack context for what's happening occult-wise or more weapons/rituals, they aren't going to be especially more dangerous.

Heck, if we are incredibly lucky, having a lot of more "well-adjusted" ponies join could potentially water down its worst tendencies through having Ponyville's natural Heart and Forge affiliations dilute the amount of ambient Wolf particles most average members end up being exposed to.

 

[DelightedOne]

We don't know what the Therapy Group will actually try and do to the Mayor, other than that it would in some way be bad for her. For all we know, it could be something as petty as having her house be robbed or losing an election to a scandal related to working with them.

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Bird mentioned a shovel, do you remember the last time we saw one of those ponies with a shovel?

A group of ponies is currently gathered around a tied-up stallion. Some of them are carrying bats and metal bars, and one of them has a shovel.

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Some of them needed… encouragement. Like the pony who is currently using his shovel to dig a grave, who nowadays wear an eyepatch over one of his empty eye sockets because… well, because he needed help so he could see things better.

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"Have you stopped to think you might just be paranoid?" Do you all remember how sneaky our QM can be when he wants to? How many things we saw happen that only became clear much later?

I do, that is why I stopped believing in coincidences with his writing.

 

[Solace2117]

All the votes made them somewhat relevant and we can prevent the mayor issue. Also I don't know how important Ponyville really is in this history outside of Velvet's influence.

 

[DelightedOne]

Of course we can prevent the "negative consequence". And WILL, unless we want the Daughter(or maybe a Wolf cultist) as the new mayor.

Ponyville's relevance comes from 2 things: It is a Harmony hotspot and will be a major point of agriculture in the future.

 

[Solace2117]

The Harmony aspect really hasn't been relevant and the fact we can prevent it makes it not a huge issue, just something we have to use our social for.
Not saying they can't cause issues, I just don't think in the grand scheme of things it's a huge deal. Ponyville is still pretty isolated despite the fact it's growing.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

I do wonder about the other Victories…
We have a straight shot at Glory and a pretty decent understanding of Mother of Wolves.

I wonder how much effort the Moon Victory would have been. SH sacrament and then climb the tower in the blank plains to access to moon and go from there? But the outcome is somewhat expected with returning to how it once was.

What intrigues me the most is the Harmony Victory. What would it have entailed? What would it look like? It is one of the regrets I have that I only found out about this quest so late, having lost the privilige to vote on so many crucial decisions.