Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[spiderhellian]

"Status Quo Enjoyer" Biedde, with a Mandate from the Princesses to hate all changelings, can be quite the influence eh?

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This makes me imagine Velvet showing up to work with an Edge influence again… the one from Smiles.

"Howdy Roach, care for some sparring?" "So this is the pony that was fomenting rebellion? I mean, he's got a point…" "Monsters — are they really so bad?"

About that, he kind of sort of is!

There was no way to put something that casual in an update like that. Not without losing focus. But other than his (quite literally) sabertooth fangs, he has other feline traits.

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Oooh, Velvet's ponycentrism strikes again!

 

[Greymere]

Oooh, Velvet's ponycentrism strikes again!

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As much as I enjoy the quest and Velvet as a character, I will forever mourn the fact that we will never get to see what the Mansus and the climb to Glory would have looked like from a non-pony perspective.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Smiles friendship is almost certainly the same thing that Biedde want IE helping the Lionsmith.

 

[DelightedOne]

And I'm totally on board with killing the god of slavery and tyranny.

That also means the end of the Corrivality, so the World will change quite a bit, maybe it will even be more peaceful.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

And I'm totally on board with killing the god of slavery and tyranny.

That also means the end of the Corrivality, so the World will change quite a bit, maybe it will even be more peaceful.

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How do you get giving the Hour of "Making Monsters" free rein making things more peaceful.

 

[spiderhellian]

-Narratively, you will NOT align yourself with the Lionsmith, and Smiles specifically wishes for this option to be as tempting as possible, with as few strings attached as he can offer it with.

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Hmmm, as tempting as possible?

@OurLadyOfWires Did Smiles ever consider the very cheap and easy sweetener of "telling us what he would need to give us his full attention"? The price of his friendship?

 

[DelightedOne]

How do you get giving the Hour of "Making Monsters" free rein making things more peaceful.

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Because then we will focus on external threats instead of worrying about internal threats?

I much prefer a World where monsters are more worrying than society going full fascist, unlike reality.

And besides, he won't have free reign. Velvet and/or Harmony are still there.

 

[BtfCarrier]

Why are people even considering having both of them when Smiles trait says Under any circumstances?

[OH HATED FOE]: If Smiles and Biedde ever meet, under any circumstances, the two of them will battle to the death in single combat (no interruptions will be allowed or accepted)

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[DelightedOne]

Why are people even considering having both of them when Smiles trait says Under any circumstances?

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Because of this:

-You will also gain the action "Micromanage". (If Biedde and Smiles are summoned at the same time, you may use your social action or TWO follower actions to guarantee Smiles and Biedde will not meet during the turn.)

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We can just keep them away from each other if we really wanted to stay neutral in the Corrivality.

 

[spiderhellian]

Why are people even considering having both of them when Smiles trait says Under any circumstances?

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Ah, the option explains:

-You will also gain the action "Micromanage". (If Biedde and Smiles are summoned at the same time, you may use your social action or TWO follower actions to guarantee Smiles and Biedde will not meet during the turn.)

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Trading our Social action for a Name action is well worth the price, after all.

The image of one entering a room, spoiling Silky silly, leaving with the other on his heels, the next spoiling Silky even sillier...

It's honestly quite tempting.

 

[ses]

There are twelve verses. In the first, an ascendant Hour identified as the Scarred One enumerates his justifications for destroying the Seven-Coiled: its appetites, its growth, its enmity to humanity. In the second, a priestess puts out his eyes and scars his skin to protect him against the Seven-Coiled's magics. In each of the next seven verses, he destroys one aspect of the Seven-Coiled...

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In the tenth verse, the Scarred One bathes his priestess-patron in the blood of the Seven-Coiled, to lend her power. In the eleventh, they assault the 'temple behind the world', entering it by force. In the twelfth, they swear a tripartite oath to protect their ancestors, their descendants, and themselves.

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Ant Mommy and the Colonel by default get 2 of the top 3 spots in the "Most benevolent Hour" rankings for the fact that they swore explicit oaths to protect humanity (Thunderskin can come too). Colonel was the first line of defense against the Worms while Lionsmith litters the world with monsters that eat random people for literally no reason.

Why are people even considering having both of them when Smiles trait says Under any circumstances?

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We are promised that we can keep both of them summoned and guarantee they never shall meet with the investment of 1 Social AP or 2 Follower AP as the "sitcom shenanigans" tax. Expensive but as it goes for keeping Names bound.

 

[DelightedOne]

Colonel was the first line of defense against the Worms while Lionsmith litters the world with monsters that eat random people for literally no reason.

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The reason is quite obvious. To piss of his dad.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

Listen.

No. Matter. What.

We do NOT leash ourselves to the Colonel. Any option taken is taken just so this outcome does not happen.

YOU DO NOT ENSLAVE YOURSELF TO THE SLAVE-GOD!!!

I personally rank this just, and only just, below a Regrettable Action.

Sadly enough people have taken regrettable actions before because of (in my opinion) shortsightedness. A RA is not something only Velvet will regret, but something WE ALL will regret.

And fitting a collar around your throat, locking it, welding a chain to it and then handing both the key and the chain to something unknowable, cold, sharp and merciless is VERY regrettable.

[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

Or

[X] You will take the coward's way out.

 

[Sveta08]

Ha ha ha
HA HA HA
OH YOU .... GAGHG

Bother and codswalop and damnit damnit damnit


ahem

The choice here is clear much as it is a risk.
Velvet is one who has never accepted a binding oath and never sworn her life in the service of another. The times she has it was a choice she made to a life she helped create and that saved her. Hers is a life devoted to Silky and Selene and Stormy and -
Hers is a life that is devoted to the aspect of change. To turn the world, to save her family, to prevent horrors from falling she takes risks which invite destruction requiring power to offset which invites risks which-
Silky is uniquely blessed with the first in the touch of a hand that did not yet know the lores growing to understand them. A house built on comradery with companions more than allies by name and Name to wit that-

Smiles, is the offer.
Smiles, is tempting.
Smiles, is the shape of the thing we are pointing at.

BUT
BUT
BUT

I see there is something which ultimately does not matter, but gives me enough pause to merit my frustration in the way it has.
Not that it will. Not that it does. Not that it can change anything. But just...
The difference between an inference, a narrative hunch, and wild speculation is only how right you are.


That is to say.
Smiles can be befriended. That much is good and we can and should aim for him to bring him along.
What prey (pray? Both) tell is Discord then, the God of Chaos, an amalgam of beasts and power and The First Outsider, to the Lionsmith?
Theirs is the blood that will mark the true severance of the world as it is. Theirs is the blood that is the path to power. Theirs is Change and Betrayal of the life that all yet have known.

What then is Discord's Blood to The Lionsmith? What happens when we bring his only servant on the path to gain that blood?



Like I said. This changes nothing. Going for Smiles is the correct path I see.
Yes, even with the risk, it's the right shape of things. It's the right threat of things.
But it gives me enough pause to wonder aloud.

 

[Pittauro]

And you are here.

With him.

With Biedde.

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...well, it is time.

I didn't expect this update to come before the end of the previous vote, but well, Bird decided to make up for lost time

"You will come to me, and we will fight. We will fight until you are sufficiently broken, or until you bleed me. You are not permitted to back down until you are dismissed, and you may use any tools at your disposal."

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...technically, as mentioned before, Keys are a tool...

...hopefully he doesn't accidentally deal us 3 wounds at once! Anything but that!

Maybe once, he was built like a statue. Maybe once he was perhaps beautiful, the same way a marble depiction of "the ideal pony" would be beautiful. That is, until a sculptor challenged himself to see how much more of the statue he could carve off, without it crumbling under its own weight.

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Appropriate for THE Follower of the Colonel.

"Cheating is also inadvisable. I will not take offense if you do. But to be frank, if you cheat and succeed, you will not survive what happens next."

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fair enough.

[Velvet Covers has not been dismissed, combat will continue]

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and we're already 1.5 wounds down!

"It is impossible to teach your young without drawing their blood," he remarks casually, patting one of his cheeks with a hoof to brush off some of your bloodied fur that stuck to him. "Again."

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A very edge mindset, and not completely wrong.

[Overflow: Velvet Covers – 4, Biedde – 49]

[Velvet Covers has not been dismissed, combat will continue]

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damn it! We're running out of AotL here!

Still, true as an arrow and certain as death itself, you watch in terror as the old stallion raises one of his legs.

And before you have time to blink, he brings it down like a guillotine towards you.

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...It's probably now or never... come on...

[Biedde acquiesces to not completing this combat turn]

[Combat has concluded]

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FINALLY!

So, in the end we got one wound and managed to inflict one ourselves. We were ONE POINT from getting our second wound... but we were lucky.

In the end, Velvet is now as hurt as she has been for many years. It's acceptable.

But of course, your hoofs are just too slow, so all your hoofs can do is scrape at his foreleg as it crashes down towards your neck.



!!!!!-



But somehow… somehow, maddeningly, his hoof stops.

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Because we scraped him.

So close to death... but we managed to get that one drop of blood that could save us.

"Meet me in the Mansus," he finishes.

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why does this sounds like a threat?!

...I'm wondering... will the Sacrament be Worm-focused, seeing as he's the last soldier guarding the Worm Museum? It might allow us to visit the Dreamrealm more safely... but it doesn't really fit.

But to your surprise, and to your horror, his staunch and unbreakable back is no longer imposing itself between you and that pit of pits.

And what is worse, the old creature gives you a command that you cannot defy.

"Enter."​

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...and so, we're going to visit the Worm Museum.

...I wonder if we'll find out the Colonel's body in there.

This place is outside the Mansus, for safety, but also within it, for security.

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Which, truly, I wonder how it works.

The easiest way to look at it is that it's a separate dimension, with a portal to it connecting to the Mansus. But then, how is it safe?

I suppose because you can only access it through the Mansus, and from it you can only leave TO the mansus, no possibility of entering from another direction?

This place knew the touch of the worms. And it knows the touch of the worms. And it will never stop knowing the touch of the worms.

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...and yet... the Worms were not always a thing. and one day, they might stop being a thing...

Though I wonder what it would take to remove all Worms forever... it might very well just be beyond the power of even Glory.

There is no light within this place, but there is no darkness either. This place is not lit by lanterns of black nephrite, but it is not touched by Glory either.

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Not Mansus, but not Nowhere.

Biedde's master is in this place. An Hour, for only an Hour could keep a Name within its grip, still stalks this corridors.

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...alive?

Will we be witnesses to the continued fight of the Colonel against the Worms?

...is the Lionsmith here too?

...what kind of person, if it even can be called a person, will we find?

This is what Biedde wanted you to do. This is the Sacrament Biedde had to offer you. To meet his own mentor and lord, and to be taught and marked and dragged into his service.

The very thought, of becoming like Biedde and being bound to a living Hour, terrifies you.

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...I'm extremely worried. The Colonel is not an hour that leaves a light mark on his servants...

Then again, if we're just lucky enough, maybe the duty he'll impose on us is simply the same duty we already took for ourselves.

To safeguard the Wake from the Worms. To protect the status quo.

"Whoat here little filly, I wouldn't do that if I were you."

"AHH!"

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First impression is that he's surprisingly approachable.

But I wonder if, surprise of all surprises, we'll actually meet the Lionsmith first instead...

"Pfff… ahahahaa… AHAHAHAHAHAH, oh boy that was hilarious. Calm down, calm down. It's okay. I'm not going to hurt you, probably."

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...It's really scary that the "probably" might very well be there because he might do it accidentally.

Is THAT why we needed to pass the test? So Biedde could be sure we'd SURVIVE this encounter?

However, his most unusual trait is definitely in his mouth. Specifically, he has two very long (and very pointy) fangs pointed downwards from his mouth. Not unlike a great feral cat from ancient times, if the skeletons you saw in museums are anything to go by.

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I KNEW IT! IT'S THE LIONSMITH!

...we'll we have to pick between the two? Will picking him mean we lose Biedde, but get the other Name in exchange maybe?

...is there a third option (NOT the Wolf)? Could the Corrivalry have died with the near-death of the Mansus and the old world?

"I mean there, that shadow over there," he says, pointing at the strangely intimidating corner of the hall. "That place you were walking towards? The one where that FUCKING COWARD is waiting?" he says.

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yep. The Lionsmith is trying to steal the Colonel's new recruit.

I have a strong suspicion that we're about to give up the Colonel and Biedde for the Lionsmith, and in the process we'll lose Biedde as a Name... and probably end up having our uncle as a future enemy.

"I mean the fucker? The coward-in-charge? The loser-general? The golden shit? The Colonel?" he says, directing another glare at the darkness of the hall. "Listen, I… I'll give it to you straight, little filly. Biedde is stuck out there to stop anything nasty from leaving, and I am stuck in here to stop Him from crossing this door. And between the two of us, we are the last pieces our respective sides had on the board."

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...oh.

He's not the Lionsmith.

He's the Lionsmith's NAME.

That makes a LOT more sense.

"And if you are here, it means Biedde let you in," he says, letting out a dark chuckle as he speaks about the Name. "Biedde lets you in, because if his boss conscripts him he gains another piece on the board. And that might finally tip a scale that has been left untipped for a very long time."

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conscripts YOU (us), not "him".

...and... Are we about to tip the balance of power of the Corrivalry? I didn't even consider that!

He tells you all of that because, by his own reckoning, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

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Because he can steal us from Biedde...

AND... this is probably a Name we can befriend.

Indeed, it's possible that the act of giving up Biedde and the Colonel would be ENOUGH to befriend him, even. The opposite of Biedde, a Name that CAN'T be befriended at all.

If He strikes Smiles, He will lose his cover, and Smiles' Lord will win the day. Or so the Name professes.

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...that makes sense enough to me.

You understand what makes Biedde ticks. You understand his motivation.

And most importantly, you understand exactly what he intended, when he offered you this "opportunity" for a Sacrament.

And you trust Smiles. You know he is telling the truth because, despite his good humor and sincerity, you can also tell that he hates Biedde. He hates him more than anything else.

"Make no mistake, little filly. I can't stop you from doing that. But if you throw his lot with him, you are looking at an eternity of bondage… and that isn't a way for a pony to live."

He says all of that. He says all of that, and you believe him.

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That explains EVERYTHING about Biedde!

He's grooming us to join the Colonel.

And in case we refuse him, he now recruited Uncle Steppes instead.

and through him, he'll try to recruit more.

and his religious duties would be him searching for new potential apprentices and followers.

[] You will walk into the shadow, and into bondage.
-You will receive Sacrament from the Colonel, living Hour of Edge (and not from Biedde).
-Smiles will become an enemy of your faction. You will be unable to summon him (although you do not believe anypony else will ever learn how to summon him).
-Narratively, you will align yourself with the Colonel. Mechanically, nothing will change other than you receiving Sacrament. The Colonel will not suddenly start giving your orders, or pulling your strings, and your relationship with Biedde will remain unchanged.
-However, this option HAS A CHANCE TO "POISON" YOUR EPILOGUE. (This is the only "fair warning" you will receive from QM regarding this option. This is a "meta" warning, being offered out of an abundance of reasonableness, and Velvet Covers is not aware of it. Similar to the warning about the Master becoming an alicorn.)

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the risk of anyone else getting to Smiles and summoning him against us in a relevant timeframe is negligible. They'd need to pass Biedde's test first, after all, and Comet is the only around who might be able to as of right now.

...and Selene, I suppose. But I don't think Selene would ever take this.

...this implies it might just be impossible to get Selene an Edge Sacrament from Smiles. Biedde would never let her through. It MIGHT be possible to get it from Biedde, but I can't imagine her accepting the bondage.

It's fair to point out that a "CHANCE" is not a certainty. The chance of this poisoning our dialogue depends entirely on what we think the Colonel WANTS, in the end.

Velvet's current trajectory is... actually fairly compatible with his goals and nature, I think.

Though of course there's a strong implication that We'll be eventually giving the Colonel access to Glory once we get through the Tricuspid Gate.

[] You will take Smiles' offer.
-You will receive Sacrament from Smiles, the Name of Edge (and not from the Lionsmith. "You are too frail to meet my Lord! And don't worry, this won't hurt a bit.")
-Smiles will be immediately summoned in the place of Biedde, for free, as if he had been summoned at the beginning of Turn 23.
-Smiles may be Befriended, and finds deep humor in being (according to him) an objectively better choice than his corrival.
-Narratively, you will NOT align yourself with the Lionsmith, and Smiles specifically wishes for this option to be as tempting as possible, with as few strings attached as he can offer it with.
-However, Biedde will become an enemy of your faction. He will immediately un-summon himself, and will refuse future summons from your faction.

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As expected, Smiles can be befriended, We'll make Biedde an enemy (he will unsummon himself at least, not staying in the Wake)... I'm a bit surprised at how little he's asking of us, but then again he has a LOT to lose here.

[] You will take the coward's way out.
-You will Wake, immediately.
-Biedde will not take offense to this, and you will be able to challenge him again at a later date. Smiles will not take offense to this either.
-You will NOT receive an Edge Sacrament at this moment, and you will continue your turn as normal.
-You will learn how to summon Smiles, and will be permitted to do so. Summoning Smiles, keeping Biedde summoned, or even having both summoned at the same time will not be considered as "joining" either of their sides in their conflict.
-You will also gain the action "Micromanage". (If Biedde and Smiles are summoned at the same time, you may use your social action or TWO follower actions to guarantee Smiles and Biedde will not meet during the turn.)

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apt name. We decline to choose, we get the chance to summon both Names (though we need to first summon Smiles), but... well, we need to keep two Names who hate each others from... well, meeting each other, or risk trouble.


....I'm near certain we'll pick Smiles, but I'm worried this knee-jerk reaction might be unwise and hasty.

Jesus Christ that 49 overflow.

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For real!

A single wound, even if so close to two, was not our best case scenario, but it's damn near close to it. We can act more or less normally while at 2 health, we're used to it. It doesn't really affect our plans except for maybe delaying the Red Church mansus expedition, as we'd want to be at full health for that one.

But we have plenty of other stuff to do, so that's hardly a problem.

"Large, but not threatening. Strong, but not careless. A gentle giant, quick with a joke and with a mouth just foul enough to make foals giggle with embarrassment. This pony clearly lives by the notion of living free, while also having the strength to ensure he can do so. And if there is any hate in his heart, then it clearly exists for the sake of a single pony who he will never tire of speaking ill of."

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...to be fair, Biedde DID let that one assassin get through our defenses once. And while Mareinette then "helped" us through the pain, he very much didn't.

Biedde is NOT kind. He's just polite. Though I suppose he has a bit of a soft spot for Silky?

I wonder if he'll try to recruit her in the future...

Summoning requirements: EDGE 100, KNOCK 80, HEART 60.

Summoning cost: 100 bits.

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Irrelevant if we befriend him, viable if we take the coward's way out.

Summoning details:
-Smiles is willing to extend (reset) his summoning if you agree to "do some favors" for him. (He will ask for an increasing number of Follower action points. One action point per additional turn he is asked to stay in the Wake.)
-Smiles is capable of CHANNELING the highest intensity of Edge influence, and gifting it to you for a full month.
-Smiles is considered a Minion, and does not mind being sacrificed for Rituals.
-Smiles may NOT be sacrificed to summon Biedde, and will not be summoned if Biedde is sacrificed in his summoning.

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the extension cost is acceptable for at least the first two times... and it's unlikely we'll reach a third extension before All In anyway.

Funny how these two Names can be used as sacrifices for anything EXCEPT each others

Health: 5/5
General bonus: +30
"Combat-related" bonus: +50
Aspects: EDGE 6, HEART 3
[NAME]: There is, or was, a hierarchy within the Mansus. He has reached high within its ranks.
[ONE WHO IS VERY GREAT]: Smiles is willing to offer you Sacrament in the Lore of Edge, should you fulfill his requirements.
[WEIGHT OF PRESENCE]: Smiles grants a full level up to the Secret Library for his preferred Lore.
[CRUSHING STRENGTH]: If Smiles causes at least one wound to an opponent during battle, he causes an additional wound.
[TROUBLEMAKER]: Once per turn, Smiles may lead one assault (or one Short Expedition) without spending any action points.

[LAUGHING GIANT]: During combat, Smiles will try to taunt, attract and engage as many enemies as he can at the same time. He does not receive any mechanical advantage when attempting to do so, but foes will naturally try to "dogpile" him whenever possible.

[PROUD]: Will refuse to cast any rituals that do not involve Edge or Heart.
[UNIQUE]: Smiles is a unique creature. He may refuse summons at will, and will refuse re-summons for three full months should he be unsummoned for any reason (including if he is killed).
[OH HATED FOE]: If Smiles and Biedde ever meet, under any circumstances, the two of them will battle to the death in single combat (no interruptions will be allowed or accepted).

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Heart instead of Moth.

double wounds instead of +5 per wound received.

one short expedition/assault instead of one guard action free per turn. (so more aggressive than Biedde, which actually suits us pretty well as we're not really expecting an attack right now...)

He attracts more enemies to himself instead of scaring them away.

aaaand... yep. If they meet, they'll fight. Micromanaging both of them is mostly not worth the hassle, and I doubt there's a secret "have them kiss and make up" secret ending down that route...

And with that, you finally meet the last Name. The eight, and hardest to find, Name, meant to be the corrival of the other Edge Name, possible Edge Master betrayal option, and the fourth member of the "Change" faction in the Name Hotel, to counterbalance the four "Order" Names.

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So, officially the last one?

Shame, I was still hoping for a potential new source of Moth Sacraments...

After this update, a reader very wisely pointed out that:
And he is correct. Velvet should have had a +1 to all her rolls.

Mechanically, changing that now wouldn't alter the results of the combat. (It would not impact how many dice would be thrown, in what order, or Velvet's wound.) So, I will not update it.

However, I would like to point out that Biedde's "49 overflow" was in fact, some three points lower (down to a 46), and that Velvet beat him with a 53.

For transparency's sake, if nothing else.

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Well, it didn't make a difference NOW, but it was very close to make one.

So, thanks to ses for noticing it!

---

...So, I'm strongly leaning towards Smiles over Biedde.

He feels better mechanically, slightly more aligned with our goals, and sort of preserves the status quo between the Colonel and Lionsmith, at least for now.

I admittedly feel a bit bad about betraying Biedde, but yeah... He IS a Slave, in the end. I find it telling that he didn't even TRY to make an argument for the Colonel over the Lionsmith. Is he so deep in his servitude that he can't imagine us ever deciding otherwise?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Ah, the option explains:

Trading our Social action for a Name action is well worth the price, after all.

The image of one entering a room, spoiling Silky silly, leaving with the other on his heels, the next spoiling Silky even sillier...

It's honestly quite tempting.

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Yes, yeeeees, vote for what you want to read. Vote for Silky spoiling. Vote for the true Name Hotel, where we must balance our various guests' needs! In this case, the need for space!

 

[ses]

Because he can steal us from Biedde...

AND... this is probably a Name we can befriend.

Indeed, it's possible that the act of giving up Biedde and the Colonel would be ENOUGH to befriend him, even. The opposite of Biedde, a Name that CAN'T be befriended at all.

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Befriending Smiles probably requires us figuring out a way to kill Biedde for realsies-permanent-like in a way that isn't an RA

 

[DelightedOne]

Considering the previous rules for befriending Names it is much more likely we just need to refresh his timer a couple of times, like Baldomare.

If we rush it and do it every turn he could be ready for All In.

 

[Cochimetl]

"I mean the fucker? The coward-in-charge? The loser-general? The golden shit? The Colonel?"

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Is that on purpose? Because in CS, the Golden General is the Lionsmith, not the Colonel.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I am very torn between Coward's Way and Smiles' Offer. On the one hand, the Offer saves us Bits and AP, while the Coward's Way does not. On the other hand, Biedde is a terrifying enemy who could absolutely assassinate Velvet at any time he is in the Wake unless Baldomare spots him coming so we can throw Smiles at him. The cost of protecting against him would be ruinous, to say nothing of if he decided to go after our friends instead. Just one quick stop by Rarity's would be all it takes to cripple Velvet's eldritch endeavors.

Yeah, now that I've typed it out, we should definitely just take the 53 Hive Bits and shove them towards summoning Smiles conventionally; guarding against Biedde would cost so much more than that.

 

[Greymere]

Befriending Smiles probably requires us figuring out a way to kill Biedde for realsies-permanent-like in a way that isn't an RA

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Unlikely. The nature of Edge Dyads means your immortality is irrevocably tied to your corrival, both in that for as long as they live so will you, and that you are the only one who can slay them in turn (iirc). Unless the rules have changed, killing Biedde can't realistically be Smiles's friendship condition because it would also kill Smiles in the process.

 

[ses]

I am very torn between Coward's Way and Smiles' Offer. On the one hand, the Offer saves us Bits and AP, while the Coward's Way does not. On the other hand, Biedde is a terrifying enemy who could absolutely assassinate Velvet at any time he is in the Wake unless Baldomare spots him coming so we can throw Smiles at him. The cost of protecting against him would be ruinous, to say nothing of if he decided to go after our friends instead. Just one quick stop by Rarity's would be all it takes to cripple Velvet's eldritch endeavors.

Yeah, now that I've typed it out, we should definitely just take the 53 Hive Bits and shove them towards summoning Smiles conventionally.

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Biedde can't enter the Wake without a summoner. While its possible that Steppes isn't his only acolyte, it'd be very odd if Biedde was able to arrange a cult to summon him faster than the Master did, despite the Master being better positioned by far

Unlikely. The nature of Edge Dyads means your immortality is irrevocably tied to your corrival, both in that for as long as they live so will you, and that you are the only one who can slay them in turn (iirc). Unless the rules have changed, killing Biedde can't realistically be Smiles's friendship condition because it would also kill Smiles in the process.

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Its very possible that killing your corival makes you not immortal anymore, there is absolutely nowhere that shows that the winner dies instantly

 

[ses]

five Name-rituals that (pinches her cheek while doing a baby voice) we both know I'll never let you contest me on

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In hindsight its very good we didn't offer them Tools

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Biedde can't enter the Wake without a summoner. While its possible that Steppes isn't his only acolyte, it'd be very odd if Biedde was able to arrange a cult to summon him faster than the Master did, despite the Master being better positioned by far

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That's just not an assumption I wish to test, personally.

Plus I do really want additional Name Hotel shenanigans.

 

[permeakra]

That is to say.
Smiles can be befriended. That much is good and we can and should aim for him to bring him along.

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Smiles is a Name of Lionsmith. Lionsmith in the original source ascended to Hourhood through "secret of betrayal" while Colonel ascended to Hourhood by sacrifice and murder of a monster-hour. It is in nature of Lionsmith to betray and make monsters, it is in the nature of Colonel to oppress and and commit to duties.

So, if we go by the original and Velvet is to leash herself to either, Colonel is a much better option than Lionsmith. But honestly, fuck both.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Smiles is a Name of Lionsmith. Lionsmith in the original source ascended to Hourhood through "secret of betrayal" while Colonel ascended to Hourhood by sacrifice and murder of a monster-hour. It is in nature of Lionsmith to betray and make monsters, it is in the nature of Colonel to oppress and and commit to duties.

So, if we go by the original and Velvet is to leash herself to either, Colonel is a much better option than Lionsmith. But honestly, fuck both.

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Thankfully, there is not an option to leash ourselves to the Lionsmith.

 

[Sintonir]

Smiles is a Name of Lionsmith. Lionsmith in the original source ascended to Hourhood through "secret of betrayal" while Colonel ascended to Hourhood by sacrifice and murder of a monster-hour. It is in nature of Lionsmith to betray and make monsters, it is in the nature of Colonel to oppress and and commit to duties.

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Actually, not quite.
Natures of the Colonel are: to be blind, to be scarred, to cannot be denied.
Natures of the Lionsmith are: to be stronger, to be seamless, to make monsters.
Colonel doesn't commit to duties by default, Lionsmith doesn't necessarily betray.

Thankfully, there is not an option to leash ourselves to the Lionsmith.

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Yet.
It is very likely we'd need to do it to win Smiles' friendship.

 

[Rafuki22]

Natures of the Lionsmith are: to be stronger, to be seamless, to make monsters.

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Velvet is more aligned with the Lionsmith by default by being more aligned with change and by the fact that she has made monsters, even if indirectly. (Also denying Comet to the Colonel)

 

[Pittauro]

Sigh, called it.

The Colonel will not release what is his and going for his Sacrament means being in bondage to him forever.

Hell I even guessed correctly that the Colonel was still alive even.

Just go Wolf like we should have from the beginning.

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Ironically that WOULD allow us to get the Sacraments AND to also summon both Names, so mechanically speaking it's actually an interesting options.

But... I'll argue that I find the wolf the worst option of the three. It's fairly reasonable to assume that more stains will ALSO affect the epilogue someway.

- With Smiles, we will likely get a weaker Sacrament. If that matters at all.

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Not necessarily true. we'll get a different one, and from someone "lower", but it's hard to say it will actually be a weaker sacrament.

And basically impossible to say if it will be a less useful one, which is not the same thing.

- Our current path seems to be more aligned with Colonel values, we trust the establishment and win through cunning more than strength

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I'm not completely sure. We DO want to change the establishment somewhat, potentially integrating the Lores in Equestria. AND, arguably, we're working against Celestia, the RIGHTFUL ruler... and while Luna WAS once a princess of the same rank, she's technically the newcomer.

It's not quite black and white.

- We may save our Uncle? Unlikely, if only we did it a turn earlier...

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Mh... I think it depends. Maybe if we sent Smiles immediately on a short expedition/Assault to "capture/save" our uncle after scrying him? @OurLadyOfWires would that be at all possible?

Do we think Biedde/the Colonel could have already imposed unremovable bonds over him? He wasn't an Edge 4 adept, so the Sacrament way is out, but I doubt that's the only way... and yet, Betrayal HAS to be possible, or the Lionsmith's story wouldn't make sense.



in any case... ironically, I think that Velvet has more in common with the Colonel (who WANTS to be in charge) than the Lionsmith... but EXACTLY because of that, she can't submit to him, because she wouldn't trust an absolute authority over herself.

She rejected the Master, she acted against Celestia, she raised Selene herself... all because she thought she knew best.

She might even be right.

But this puts us directly into conflict with the Colonel, I think.

The kicker is that we need Biedde for his constant guard duty trait.

Family protection and our personal protection is very important.

@OurLadyOfWires Can we have a forth option where Velvet immediately commits to getting her Edge Sacrament from the Wolf-Divided?

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I doubt anyone will consider the Wolf.

Besides the usual arguments, Smiles is also an extra Name in All-In.

Also, if we truly wanted to we could simply use Smile's action to guard us, and his free action to send him on short expeditions.

AND he can be befriended, which would give him an extra action.

He is, QUITE LITERALLY, mechanically better than Biedde in every way.

Biedde is basically making assaults very hard against us which has saved our skins before.

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Smiles is actually better, because he invites enemies to dogpile him. and we can use his action for guarding, and the free action for short expeditions.

AND we can get a second action if we befriend him.

He's literally mechanically a better guard!

@OurLadyOfWires As I understand it, if Smiles gets summoned for free he will have a standard 3 turn summoning, correct? And will only start asking for follower actions at the END of turn 25? Where it'll.... be a pattern of 1 follower action on turn 26, 2 follower actions turn 27, 3 on turn 28? And so on until we can no longer pay?

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a reset would be 3 more turns, not 1.

Did you watch mlp and saw them turn a new leaf and are aware they can change for the better?

Did you miss how in both this quest and canon they have an insatiable hunger that would kill them if they did not eat? Here it is worse since they were cursed injustly.

Those of us who pity the Changelings admit they did very very evil acts, but honestly, who would chose to die of hunger when you could just feed.

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This.

AS THINGS STAND, conflict is inevitable. we can still be sad things didn't go a different way.

That there wasn't a Thorax here reaching for a different way.

Don't necessarily knock the Coward's Path though. If you're in camp "Celestia levels Lantern once per turn every turn, and we need to All In within 4 turns" we almost certainly won't Befriend Smiles in that time anyway. And Befriending him probably requires figuring out some way of perma-killing Biedde. We have the option of not taking Biedde as an enemy at the cost of not getting a marginal Sacrament.

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I wouldn't assume it to be THAT difficult to befriend Smiles.

It's probably something like 3 to 4 APs of actions at most, all things considered. Could be even less than that if we're lucky.

So if a magical serial killer is going to kill you because they need to kill one specific person a day to stay alive, you should just let them do it because they "have no choice"?

Sure, they can do what they need to do. But we are allowed to take exception to it. Doesn't mean we have to forgive them for what they "needed" to do either.

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nobody argued we should have let them do their thing. the whole thing was basically "I just wish there was a better way".

Hey!

Evil had nothing to do with that it was all Chrysalis.

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-[Wolf, thy name is Evil]: "An old malice has been reintroduced to Equestria, like a wind that brings misfortune or a day where the sun just doesn't shine as bright."
(Equestria is now a worse place.)

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It's very, very possible that yes, Evil was involved. Chrysalis actions were extreme, even for her standards. Evil nudging her towards something more destructive and agonizing is perfectly reasonable, because the first stain seems to have that kind of narrative effect on the WHOLE of Equestria, just like Paranoia instead has a more mechanical effect that translates to making people less likely to work well together.

Humans are not exactly better than changelings so I don't really judge.

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Well, humans don't NEED to feed on other humans. That said, we do much worse than what the changeling did out of necessity, so not much to argue there.

Anyway, the Party-In-Splendor choice is clearly Smiles. She has a whole song about it and everything! And Steppes could really use cheering up. It's unclear what we can do to rescue Steppes but Smiles does seem like a good probability path to Uncle Steppes back at the Velvet Estate as a real confidante.

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Or as Steppes being killed if he's already bound, admittedly.

Well, I have a friend I call Smiles IRL, so I simply must make it possible to bring this guy forth into the Wake.

I want to take the Coward's Way Out just to see Biedde and Smiles take turns trying to win over Silky in increasingly over-the-top ways.

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That IS kinda tempting.

If anyone can bring them to NOT kill each other on sight, it would be Silky too... though that's probably beyond even her

Allow me to offer up a very simple, yet compelling reason as to why we should only pick one, and why that one should be Smiles.

*clears throat*

BITS

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that IS indeed very convincing!

...also, I still want to steal the bits.

Seriously, we find stealing some bits WORSE than what we plan to do to Spoiled Rich? Really?!

Well, let's consult our GRINDSET on this decision.


Technically, Biedde has been standing in the way of this maze for a long time, so I think the SIGMA move here is to team up with Smiles to kill him. Smiles probably counts as a spirit under the GRINDSET, so it even matches the methodology recommendation.

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flawless reasoning

---

Alright!

First of all, thank you so much for your patience. This was all written in a bit of a short notice, so I appreciate your understanding with the small things that piled up.

Also, I must say that it was really hard not to cram more Smiles into his update. This may very well be the last time he is ever seen, but I created him with as much nuance as DoA or Cherenkolt. So, thank you for spending some time with it. And in case he is forgotten, I apologize for not being able to give him more characterization. We only had this short, introductory, "I am actually more worried about the Colonel but nice to meet you" update to work with.

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He looks nice.

So he probably eats children for breakfast or something, from past experience.

The real question is if you put MORE or LESS nuance in him than Biedde. Either of them might take offense to it, so watch out

List of stuff I did:
-Updated Bureau page with Winter teachings.
-Updated Biedde-duel with a "ses Disclaimer"
-Velvet's health set to "2/3" in character sheet
-That seems to be it

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[WINTER]
-This Lore has been properly taught to the Lunar Bureau.
-Currently at Level 1 (applying Secret Library level).
-Bureau morale more resistance to casualties, negative events, and when facing dread-inducing monsters or situations.
-No further abilities raised yet.

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a nice little extra.

(I don't remember answering this)
Answer: Try and find out.

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You make a good point that "this should be obvious".

But I also stated several times (and it is the point of a CS quest) that "nothing is off-limits to win". Especially when an immoral action (mortal or eldritch) is presented and seriously considered.

So, I think it is fair (and even required) for me to be very clear that "this particular action goes against the anything for victory notion because it has the potential to impact your victory as you understand it."

I will not go into details of "by how much?" But this much of a warning feels more than sensible in my opinion.

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For all we know the full extent of the Colonel's orders to us would be, in the epilogue, to help in killing the Lionsmith, and then just maintain the status quo in Equestria.

Which is, for the most part, what we'd want to do.

But yeah, it requires us to have full trust in something that we don't know and CAN'T know before making this decision.

And by the time we'll understand this quest's version of the Colonel enough to make an informed choice, it will be too late.

Biedde's guard post is actually a "detour" (a side zone) connected to the Concursum. You can safely go up and down from Glory while not coming anywhere near it.

So, if Biedde is turned into an enemy, you will just very carefully never pick the path that leads there ever again.

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Turns out Velvet is not fond of Biedde-assisted suicide. who would have thought!

Yes, that sounds entirely correct.

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wait, we need to pay for EACH EXTRA TURN?

That makes him really expensive really quickly... I suppose it means we have around 5 turns before the cost is a bit too high. Should be long enough to befriend him.

It technically should, but right now Steppes is off the game board and unreachable for your purposes.

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even beyond the Tapestry's ritual grasp?

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Turns out that Names are not fond of granting power to people they don't trust. What a shock!

...so what you're saying is, is that Smiles is a simhata?

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There's truly a myth about horse-hybrids with anything it seems.

Kind of a shame we didn't get a Qilin/Kirin Name too.

How do you get giving the Hour of "Making Monsters" free rein making things more peaceful.

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Also a point.

It's worth pointing out that neither of the two hours is inherently good OR evil.

They're two extremes between freedom vs obedience, innovation vs tradition, order vs chaos.

and considering how the Hours affect the world, the world as is is a result of the "balance" between the two of them.

Which means disrupting the balance EITHER WAY is potentially making things worse for everyone.

On the one side, a super-tiranny. On the other, complete anarchy.

These are the worst case scenarios, of course. It's possible that the Colonel would result in an enlightened despot, or that the Lionsmith would accept a status quo in which nobody WANTS to rebel because they're satisfied with what is going on...

but we can't know for sure.

Ant Mommy and the Colonel by default get 2 of the top 3 spots in the "Most benevolent Hour" rankings for the fact that they swore explicit oaths to protect humanity (Thunderskin can come too). Colonel was the first line of defense against the Worms while Lionsmith litters the world with monsters that eat random people for literally no reason.

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yeah, a possible interpretation is that the Colonel is quite simply... what Velvet wishes she could be. Someone with the authority to impose his views of what is right and wrong, to protect the weak but also enforce her will on everyone.

Which I find funny, because Velvet being so similar to the Colonel might very well be what makes her completely unsuitable to be his follower. There cannot be two absolute authorities, and we don't know enough to trust him with absolute authority over us.

Sadly enough people have taken regrettable actions before because of (in my opinion) shortsightedness. A RA is not something only Velvet will regret, but something WE ALL will regret.

And fitting a collar around your throat, locking it, welding a chain to it and then handing both the key and the chain to something unknowable, cold, sharp and merciless is VERY regrettable.

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I tend to agree.

in regards to past RAs, I think the one with the Master is justifiable. The one with the Door, all things considered, is not, but at the time it would have been very difficult to push for the alternative (two murders), so it was in the end a pragmatic choice.

Befriending Smiles probably requires us figuring out a way to kill Biedde for realsies-permanent-like in a way that isn't an RA

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extremely unlikely. Killing a Name is just beyond what any other Names asked, by an order of magnitude at least.

We were asked a lvl 7 book, a powerful artifact, a power source, to join Mareinette for dinner...

none of these is comparable to killing Biedde.

 

[Sintonir]

extremely unlikely. Killing a Name is just beyond what any other Names asked, by an order of magnitude at least.

We were asked a lvl 7 book, a powerful artifact, a power source, to join Mareinette for dinner...

none of these is comparable to killing Biedde

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Also, perma-killing Biedde is likely to perma-kill Smiles too.
They are a Dyad, this may not apply to Names, but...