Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[dcoconeo]

He can't subvert anybody if he is stuck in the Mansus, and we likely can neutralize most if not all of the ponies he have subverted if we turn against him now.

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Are you sure he is stuck in the Mansus?

Again, I am voting for Smiles Sacrament, but given how Names can apparently choose to turn up for free (Smiles, Knock Name) he might not even be bound by the 3 month limit I am expecting here.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I would also note that if we don't take Smiles' sacrament right here and now, later it will likely become harder.
At the very least we are likely to have a challenge on the level of inflicting a wound on Biedde. Which, as you could see, was a very close call for us this time.

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There is no reason to expect Smiles' Sacrament will be as difficult as Biedde's and not as difficult as, say, Baldomare's. They're kind of all over the place for difficulty, these Sacraments.

Also, if we have to dedicate a bunch of actions to wiping out whatever Biedde has set up in the Wake, then the most efficient thing is to just not make him our enemy until we are ready for All-In. Just sac Biedde for a MITL or whatever at that point, get Sacrament from Smiles, do All-In during the space between turns while Biedde plans his strike back against us, get Glory and proceed to inform him that he just got completely outmaneuvered in the event that we succeed.

 

[Sintonir]

Are you sure he is stuck in the Mansus?

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Not right now, no
But Names are generally stuck in the Mansus, unless summoned. Master could converse with members of the cult, but not get out in the Wake himself before we summoned him.

 

[spiderhellian]

And surely there's no other practitioner who has been delving into the Mansus for years, the kind of person who could have made it to the Concursus and even met Biedde up to this point…

You'd really think we'd have done something about them by now, if such a figure existed!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Another thing is that the QM has told us that Selene is about to approach us about Celestia. If we are about to be given a way to deal with our doom clock, then perhaps we shouldn't give ourselves a new one to handle? Especially if the process of defusing Celestia will be involved and action-intensive.

 

[spiderhellian]

We've gone too deep, I'm not sure if it's up setting Biedde or keeping him around that could be framed as a doom clock

 

[Solace2117]

We've seen what the Master can do. We were shown a glimpse of another history where someone else summoned Baldomare and how dangerous she could be. Copper Sector had the help of one Name and almost killed us. We've been given pretty firm clues about how risky it would be to try and take out Mareinette. It would be a mistake to underestimate Biedde, especially after he's spent multiple turns in the Wake. Despite how far she's come, Velvet is vulnerable.
We can't befriend Biedde. He follows our orders, but clearly has his own agenda. Perhaps he was always meant to be an enemy, After all we can actually befriend Smiles and at least for now we don't have to side with the Lionsmith. In so many ways he's the exact opposite of Biedde, which makes sense, but it's interesting that it seems like taking Biedde's Sacrament might have been the only way to meet him.
Maybe taking Smiles Sacrament is the right choice, but it would be a large mistake to underestimate Biedde.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

We've gone too deep, I'm not sure if it's up setting Biedde or keeping him around that could be framed as a doom clock

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Keeping Biedde around is not a doom clock because he would not be our Enemy.

 

[Diamondfiend]

[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

[X] Plan: The Mothy Path Forward
-[X] (MAP) Take it for yourself.
-[X] (PRISONER) Leave him.
-[X] (LOOT) I will steal from the poor, innocent pony prisoners.
-[X] (THING) Kill it.

 

[Cochimetl]

Here is, in my opinion, one potential reason to take the Coward's Way Out: It's the path that is most likely to lead to the Wolf Sacrament.
Because we already weren't going to choose it when it was a two-for-one.
If you're in favour of the Wolf, it makes sense to vote Coward's.

In that spirit:
[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

 

[ses]

Here is, in my opinion, one potential reason to take the Coward's Way Out: It's the path that is most likely to lead to the Wolf Sacrament.
Because we already weren't going to choose it when it was a two-for-one.
If you're in favour of the Wolf, it makes sense to vote Coward's.

In that spirit:
[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

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There is 0 chance of us taking the Wolf sacrament. Shaper is going to continue to post about it and literally every other poster in the thread will continue to ignore him. Us being stuck at Edge 4 isn't the end of the world. We do not actually NEED an edge sacrament.

We can summon Smiles next turn cheaply and reliably via Selene for only 105 bits and a Selene AP. an Edge sacrament and 105 bits is not worth making an enemy of a Name.

 

[Alan975]

[X] You will take Smiles' offer
[X] Plan: Compromising more than only a little

 

[Mage_of_Eyes]

On one hand, it does seem like we shouldn't add another plate to our spinning plates collection.
I really have a bad feeling about doing this without even having summons guarding our family...
On the other hand, if we don't unsummon this turn, then our uncle will certainly join him at the end of the turn, won't he? And that would be quite tragic. At least he's locked in the Mansus other way. Although that, of course, is no guarantee — he can probably reach in dreams, if nothing else.
Still, would take our chances.

You will take Smiles' offer.

[X] Plan The Rich Path Forward
[X] Plan: Open Source Lores

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

On one hand, it does seem like we shouldn't add another plate to our spinning plates collection.
I really have a bad feeling about doing this without even having summons guarding our family...
On the other hand, if we don't unsummon this turn, then our uncle will certainly join him at the end of the turn, won't he? And that would be quite tragic. At least he's locked in the Mansus other way. Although that, of course, is no guarantee — he can probably reach in dreams, if nothing else.
Still, would take our chances.

[X] You will take Smiles' offer.

[X] Plan The Rich Path Forward
[X] Plan: Open Source Lores

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Uncle Steppes has already left the board as per word of QM. Unsummoning Biedde will not change that.

 

[Mage_of_Eyes]

Uncle Steppes has already left the board as per word of QM. Unsummoning Biedde will not change that.

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Yeah, figures. Man I love Biedde, such a cunning move from him :3
Binding our hands, if not in an undeniable way.

 

[Greymere]

Are you sure he is stuck in the Mansus?

Again, I am voting for Smiles Sacrament, but given how Names can apparently choose to turn up for free (Smiles, Knock Name) he might not even be bound by the 3 month limit I am expecting here.

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He can't leave his post at the Museum, because that would break the deadlock. And he can't just leave the Mansus as an emanation at will, which we know because even the Will of the Woods, who actively wanted to enter the Wake with an emanation (and arguably was the Name that lived closest to that boundary), still needed to be summoned with the proper rites.

 

[Mage_of_Eyes]

Well, uncle would probably be able to eventually summon him. After all, it'd be a Name descending to his minion, not the complicated binding and stuff.
But otherwise, Biedde got himself a cult founder, and I bet a competent one at that.

 

[Greymere]

Well, uncle would probably be able to eventually summon him. After all, it'd be a Name descending to his minion, not the complicated binding and stuff.
But otherwise, Biedde got himself a cult founder, and I bet a competent one at that.

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And that still doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the ritual at all. Which we know because, again, we've seen this exact same scenario play out already. We were the minion calling to our Name.

(https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...ltist-experience.71721/page-363#post-19563017)

 

[Shaper47]

And that still doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the ritual at all. Which we know because, again, we've seen this exact same scenario play out already. We were the minion calling to our Name.

(https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...ltist-experience.71721/page-363#post-19563017)

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To be fair the Master couldn't even remember how to be summoned so them having difficulty helping makes sense.

Biedde somehow forgetting how to do things however does not make sense.

We know from Mareinette that the summons can assist on their side of things afterall.

 

[Mage_of_Eyes]

And that still doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the ritual at all. Which we know because, again, we've seen this exact same scenario play out already. We were the minion calling to our Name.

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"Eventually" is important here — I meant that he'd be getting training and orders on running the cult and stuff, so that means he's going to progress towards summoning faster than normal.
Master did make the summoning easier by providing sacrifices, after all. And also Mareinette got a bonus from personal interest, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DelightedOne]

Uncle Steppes has already left the board as per word of QM. Unsummoning Biedde will not change that.

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Well, there might be a small loophole on that.

It technically should, but right now Steppes is off the game board and unreachable for your purposes.

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"Right now" doesn't exactly mean "gone forever". Maybe we could bring him back.

The hints seem to imply another type of death and even if it is literal death saving his soul and sending it to Harmony could be a good ending for him too.

Velvet forgave him and holds no resentment, that should matter.

 

[Solace2117]

And that still doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the ritual at all. Which we know because, again, we've seen this exact same scenario play out already. We were the minion calling to our Name.

(https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...ltist-experience.71721/page-363#post-19563017)

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With the right resources and contacts though it becomes much easier. Copper Sector was able to contest us pretty well with Baldomare, even though we succeeded in the end. I get she already had a cult which helped, but we know the Names have agency outside of our orders. Biedde has been active, I doubt he doesn't have some contingencies in place.

 

[DelightedOne]

(https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...ltist-experience.71721/page-363#post-19563017)

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Huh, I wasn't aware The Will of the Woods secondary lore would have been Lantern had they not been the Master.

Makes sense considering the whole "Woods gaining conscience". Reason within Madness.

 

[Wise Wolf]

But then I wouldn't get the satisfaction of working to free Uncle Steppes and toppling the Colonel's plans.

I hate most of what he represents. Trading freedom for safety is just... eugh.

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But there's the standard death world counter: it's a no-brainer trade if the alternative is The Worms.

In the end, the Worms are more important than the Corivalry. Resolving the Corivalry in the right way is less important than surviving to reach Glory.

And I find Biedde fairly terrifying. The only way that going Smiles makes sense to me is if we're rushing full-tilt to All-In. But we've been at least hedging against rushing prep for All-In with things like Soothe the Night actions. Are we ready to stop hedging and give up on disarming the Celestia doom clock? If so, sure. Add another doom clock. But if disarming the Celestia doom clock is still in your "trying to do this" bucket, don't add another one that will make the Celestia solution buy us almost no time.

 

[Sveta08]

I really don't like that with the coward's way out we basically lose this AP and one wound for nothing(yes, we got to know a new Name... Which we will summon a few turns later), while delaying a Sacrament enough to be very likely to not get it at all

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I view it this way.

We have spent an action and a wound. What are the potential rewards?

1: Edge Sacrament as anticipated, at the cost of it being Cornal flavored and potentially tweaking the end
2: Edge sacrament as anticipated with a more befriendable Name, at the cost of Biedde becoming an enemy.
3: An additional Edge Name who is befriendable, at the cost of an Edge Sacrament and some Follower Action Economy.

Risk mitigation then says, we get the extra edge name.
Much as I would like Smiles Sacrament, and I am curious what it entails, it is a risk we don't need to take.

 

[Pittauro]

3: An additional Edge Name who is befriendable, at the cost of an Edge Sacrament and some Follower Action Economy.

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full disclosure, we don't KNOW for sure that he's befriendable without joining his side/taking his Sacrament, AND it comes with the added cost of having to pay more in general.

We need to summon Smiles (100 bits + reagents + AP for summon), we'll need to pay his maintenance later unless we befriend him quickly enough (extra follower APs), we need to pay for Biedde's Maintenance (Bits or giving him free turns to do what he wants), AND we need to pay the ap cost to NOT have them meet ever.

Potentially worse, but it might make it unfeasible to give Biedde "free time", because... we can't control where he goes during free time, so I'm not 100% sure we can stop them from meeting in that case. We PROBABLY can, but I'm not sure.

 

[Xantalos]

Hmm. I would like to vote for Coward's Way, just for the sake of additional Names, but I'm so chronically detached from thread activity - and voting for more or less anything else, including the results of the hive - that I feel it'd be somewhat discourteous of me to influence things in that direction for everyone else. So for now at least, vocal support.

Names for the Name Hotel! More uncles for Silky Stream!

This quest is a blast, I'm so glad it continues.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] Taking What's Interesting
-[X] (MAP) Take it for yourself.
-[X] (LOOT) I will steal from the poor, innocent pony prisoners.
-[X] (PRISONER) Leave him.
-[X] (THING) Capture it.

Because people have sold me on just tossing our remaining Study at the map to take a massive chunk out of its progress bar, and I think it might be a Silver Key location. Because we need money badly. Because mind whammying someone into being our minion via Eldritch powers is egregiously wrong. Because this plant thing is weird and cool and finding Scrap sources these days is a bitch.

[X] You will take the coward's way out.

Because devoting time and bits to fighting Biedde's influence in the Wake is a headache I'd rather not bother with. Because our economic engine is hilariously fragile, and Biedde would know it, target it. Because the competition over Silky will be great and terrible. Because we can backstab Biedde whenever we are ready for All-In by saccing him and taking Smile's Sacrament the turn before the interstitial period All-In takes place in.

 

[DelightedOne]

Much as I would like Smiles Sacrament, and I am curious what it entails, it is a risk we don't need to take.

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But it may be a risk we want to take.

I see this as a lesson, an opportunity for this thread to actually understand that risk is necessary and unavoidable sometimes instead of something that makes us twist ourselves into a pretzel trying to keep it from existing.

Sure we shouldn't be completely reckless, but accepting that some things are beyond our control is a must at this point.

Besides, high risk tends to bring more rewards.

 

[Arrkhon]

Wait

KNOCK: The Silver Key: There are certain mechanisms, locks or cogs or perhaps even laws, that are scattered in this world. You can now interact with them. (You will recognize them when you see them). (Level 5);

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I am like 90% sure that this will do something in the hive
Anyway it's pretty funny how everyone entirely disregards the sacrament itself due to the one we have not doing anything yet, it's like everyone disregarding lore levels as worthless after we got Moth dark vision