Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Nevermort]

Wonderful. Excellent writing as always, Bird
Now to convince Silky that Nightmare Moon have not eaten Selena

 

[Greymere]

Wooo! Finally! Luna is back! And she still has Selene's memories/feelings!

...I wonder how DoA's going to react to this development. Cause I don't think she knew that Selene was a) secretly an Outsider and b) secretly an amnesiac adult alicorn

Edit: Actually looking back DoA didn't believe that Selene would survive that transition, though she wasn't sure what was actually going on. Hah! Take that DoA! We know what we're doing (sometimes)! Pay no mind to the fact that we weren't actually sure whether or not that would happen.

 

[Pittauro]

Wooo! Finally! Luna is back! And she still has Selene's memories/feelings!

...I wonder how DoA's going to react to this development. Cause I don't think she knew that Selene was a) secretly an Outsider and b) secretly an amnesiac adult alicorn

Edit: Actually looking back DoA didn't believe that Selene would survive that transition, though she wasn't sure what was actually going on. Hah! Take that DoA! We know what we're doing (sometimes)! Pay no mind to the fact that we weren't actually sure whether or not that would happen.

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Axe didn't even know what CHILDREN are. if you remember, she thought we had cursed some grown-ups into being smaller.

but yeah... if we had Luna present when we summon Axe, this MIGHT actually start to change her mind about Velvet being a monster who plans horrible things for her daughters.

---

You know... I wonder...

I KNOW we've been repeatedly told that Celestia finding out about the lores and our role in what happened is insta-death.

But right now Luna would defend us. Does that change things, or would she assume we're mind-controlling her?

If we went for a story that's basically the truth, something along the lines of "She had been tricked into joining the ones who acted against me, but betrayed them, stole their abilities for her own, and restored me to full memories and power. She only kept me secret from you because she knew the process of healing me was very delicate, and our parents explicitly asked them to do what was best for me. And she's now submitting to my judgement, and I forgive her".

Could that possibly work?

Maybe. Maybe Celestia would just go "you're being brainwashed, I'll kill her and free you". I could see it go either way.

But surely the fact Luna is apparently 100% willing to defend Velvet changes things?

At the very least, it actually allows us to launder the lores far more easily. After all, if Luna remembers, she's now Moth/Knock/Edge/Winter 3. She KNOWS what we taught her, and can introduce it to the Bureau. and we can justify what we know from her, if we're not revealing the truth.

Actually... this makes things potentially better for Twilight too. Because now Luna could potentially go to Twilight, and tell her SHE knows a way to restore her horn and magic, as well as Shining's.

As well as our SCAR.

the Princesses are supposed to be able to do things no normal pony can. and Luna can justify things we wouldn't otherwise be able to do publically.


This has so much potential... IF we don't need to be too cautious about Celestia.

 

[Greymere]

*snip*

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It'll depend on the conversation we're going to be having after this, presumably. But yeah, I would think that since New Luna is Luna + Selene, she should retain the Lore levels and we might be able to introduce them to the Bureau through her.

 

[Roaming_Guardian]

While this entire thing succeeding as hard as it seems is an objectively massive boon, I would not assume that it magically solves ALL of our Wake problems.

 

[Greymere]

While this entire thing succeeding as hard as it seems is an objectively massive boon, I would not assume that it magically solves ALL of our Wake problems.

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I don't think it'll solve our death-by-sunfire issues if we get tied to the pre-laundering Lores or the cult. I do think it'll help with actually getting the Lores into the Bureau though, if only because our boss being in on the whole Lore thing means we mostly just have to be careful of Celestia rather than both alicorns.

Well technically there's one more alicorn, but I get the feeling that Cadance isn't about to go talking about the Lores to Celestia if the Bureau starts dabbling.

Actually, would Celestia even find out about the Lores if no one specifically told her? The Bureau answers specifically to Luna and Celestia in general is being very hands-off and distant for now. I'd assume that she'd find out about it eventually from Eclipse, but we don't actually know if Midday Dew reports directly to her like we will Luna.

Maybe we should go talk to him next turn

If only so we can find out what Eclipse actually is, officially. And who Midday Dew reports to.

Edit: I wonder if it's possible if Copper will accidentally end up in the Bureau's crosshairs? It's not as though mass kidnapping for changeling food is easily distinguishable from mass kidnapping for ritual sacrifice

 

[Pittauro]

While this entire thing succeeding as hard as it seems is an objectively massive boon, I would not assume that it magically solves ALL of our Wake problems.

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of course, but it puts us in a much better situation on ALL fronts.

EVEN if Celestia decided to kill us, presumably Luna would defend us. We'd obviously very much wish NOT to have them fight, as that would weaken both and possibly still result in our death... but it's no longer quite an insta-loss condition. There's at least a CHANCE we could survive it.

and yes, Luna would know best here. We don't know her opinion yet. Maybe she WANTS us to come clean with Celestia. Maybe she believes that unwise right now, but would be fine with it in a few turns, AFTER Celestia has gotten used to her presence AND has been introduced to the lores. Maybe she'd hope she could FEEL we're telling the truth about our regrets and having tried our best to make up for them.

And she'd likely trust a Luna who's been by her side for months, allowing her to mellow out a bit and maybe even go back to the more forgiving Celestia, more than a Luna that JUST reappeared, calls us mom, and treats us as family in a way that COULD be mistaken for brainwashing by those not in the know.

I don't think it'll solve our death-by-sunfire issues if we get tied to the pre-laundering Lores or the cult. I do think it'll help with actually getting the Lores into the Bureau though, if only because our boss being in on the whole Lore thing means we mostly just have to be careful of Celestia rather than both alicorns.

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I think there's a CHANCE it would save us from Celestia's wrath, as we'd have Luna's word on how basically Harmony got us to her and her parents asked us to keep her safe.

Sure, Celestia would hate what we've done... but IF she believes Luna is not being mind-controlled right now, she MIGHT be willing to let us live and stay under Luna's control.

Especially if Luna does not show herself to be completely in agreement with us.

Imagine something like this.

Luna: Yes, sister, What Velvet did was wrong and horrible. but she still left the cult, tried to make up for her mistakes, and brought us back from the brink of madness. The Good doesn't erase the bad, but the bad also does not erase the good, and I won't have her punished after all she's done to make up for her mistakes. She's my right hoof in the Bureau, and now I'll be able to control on what she does.

Also you surely understand her knowledge and skills will be of use to us and Equestria both. I trust she won't go back to her past mistakes, but I'll keep an eye on her, and I can do that much better with her close to me. Just like I'm sure you'll keep an eye on me as well, just to be safe.

ideally we'd have this talk only MONTHS into the future though.


...right now I'm more interested in being able to launder the lores, and justify the use of the Forge's Redemption to heal Velvet, Twilight and Shining Armor.

 

[DelightedOne]

Maybe we should go talk to him next turn

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That is actually part of my plan for next turn(if I even have the capacity to make one for real).

EVEN if Celestia decided to kill us, presumably Luna would defend us.

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Not just Luna, Cadance would too. If she was brave enough to stand in front of Celestia when she was about to incinerate a rude noble imagine what she would do for Velvet.

...right now I'm more interested in being able to launder the lores, and justify the use of the Forge's Redemption to heal Velvet, Twilight and Shining Armor.

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If that happens Celestia is definitely going to be at least a little more trusting of the lores, since there would be proof they could be used for good.

 

[Pittauro]

If that happens Celestia is definitely going to be at least a little more trusting of the lores, since there would be proof they could be used for good.

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also, you know, more trusting of Velvet.

It's one thing to get a villain that SAYS they're redeemed.

It's another thing to get a former villain who says they're redeemed, AND offers to use their powers for good, with that first use having been restoring your sister, and the second and third being an offer to heal your "most faithful student" and "the former captain of the Royal Guard".

...admittedly she needs to trust we can do it and there's no side-effects, BUT

1) we could in theory come clean only later on, after it's been shown it works and she has done her best to scan both healed ponies for mental compulsions and dark magic and so on.

2)We could very well let her WATCH the rituals, to show it's not dark magic or at least not the kind she knows of.


also as a side benefit... It's a small thing, but I can't imagine we'd have to PAY for those rituals. Luna would probably pay for Velvet's healing ritual too (and the reagent costs!) hopefully.

the forge realization would be much more useful if we didn't have to worry about bits, and healing rituals and scrying rituals could in some cases be folded under bureau expenses I imagine, with the caveat that if we do so they can't be done in secret.

So... no name summoning on the government dimes unless we want to give up control of them to the princesses, I imagine, but healing and scrying? Sure, why not, if we're trusted.


With a single study action we can reach Forge 4 too, which means we can make lvl 4 reagents to basically reduce the risks to near-zero.


LUNA: Moth, Knock, Winter, Edge.

"The Forge's Redemption"
-CD: GRAIL 60, FORGE 100

She sadly doesn't have the proper lores, so even with an Alicorn's magic bonus (presumably she'd have +50 like Celestia had if I remember right) Velvet would be a bit better thanks to her rerolls and having +40 from lores and +13 from magic.

with +53 base from Velvet, and a lvl 4 forge reagent, we're mostly assured of success... we need to roll 7 or more and we get two rolls per lore.

---

you know, the main problem right now... there MIGHT be a chance to justify Velvet's past actions. There might be a chance to come clean.

But there's still a Mareinette-sized problem to talk about... the bindings won't last forever after all, and I have no idea how we'd deal with THAT problem.

 

[DelightedOne]

She sadly doesn't have the proper lores, so even with an Alicorn's magic bonus (presumably she'd have +50 like Celestia had if I remember right) Velvet would be a bit better thanks to her rerolls and having +40 from lores and +13 from magic.

But there's still a Mareinette-sized problem to talk about... the bindings won't last forever after all, and I have no idea how we'd deal with THAT problem.

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The Alicorn bonus + her magic stat should take care of the Grail dc, so the Forge 4 reagent would be enough if she was going to do it without Velvet.

We could just tell all the Names we can summon "Kill her." and hope for the best, my dream strategy would just be Elements of Harmony(like everyone who watched MLP) but we don't have that so cultist strategy it is.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Marinette can be gifted things to extend the bindings, stuff like Amaranthine Nectar, Writhing Caul, Hallowed Polos and Chalice Murmurous will be sufficient favours and almost definitely increase our SL with her too.

Baldomare requires a tier 6 and then tier 7 book to be bffs and DoA will be indebted to us with the Frangiclave. Biede's quest chain probably involves his missing blade and the best guess we have about the Forge Name is that he is Biede's Dyad partner but that's not enough to get a quest chain out of.

If the Canterlot expedition next turn nets us a level 5 book then that frees up the Baldomare action in turn 20 and we can scry for a Marinette item.

Also I feel like you guys are a bit too optimistic about how easy it'll be to convince Celestia or survive her wrath. Luna vanishing isn't the only issue here, Equestria is currently going through a test and our little reveal will very much be a failure.

 

[des-pair-2]

This chapter was so good, I actually had to stop reading halfway through because it was just so heavy that I needed a moment to let it all sink in.

I don't think words can describe how good it is. The way everything came together was just perfect, you really are a brilliant writer Bird.

 

[Greymere]

ideally we'd have this talk only MONTHS into the future though.

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See, I think even months out is too optimistic. Because Celestia's current state is not just about Luna being gone, then impersonated. It's also about Celestia having lost her faith in ponykind as a whole.

Luna being back will probably chill her out a bit, yes. But more than that, we along with Midday Dew and Fair Trial are going to have to prove that she wasn't wrong to have spent so much time and energy ruling ponykind for the past thousand years. And that won't happen quickly or easily.

Only after that, then maybe, maybe can we eventually come clean. But even then, I have my doubts.

 

[DelightedOne]

Marinette can be gifted things to extend the bindings, stuff like Amaranthine Nectar, Writhing Caul, Hallowed Polos and Chalice Murmurous will be sufficient favours and almost definitely increase our SL with her too.

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Yeah but it is kinda implied her price will rise every time we give her something, so much that we may end up shooting ourselves in the foot trying to keep her with us.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Yeah but it is kinda implied her price will rise every time we give her something, so much that we may end up shooting ourselves in the foot trying to keep her with us.

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Bird outright stated that her requests to stay bound would escalate but if we start gifting her shit I think she'll follow the same rules the other Names do and even if she doesn't and all this buys us is two more 'free' bindings then that's 6 additional months we don't need to answer the Marinette question.

And if we do decide to eventually release her hopefully it'll be a friendly Name for whatever that matters when it's Marinette

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Man, if only we could open a portal directly to the Desert of Keys, banishing Mareinette would be a snap. Bury her in Wrong Keys and let the auto wounds flow.
Of course then we'd have to deal with a pissed off Mareinette waiting for us in the Mansus, but that's just details.

 

[Greymere]

Man, if only we could open a portal directly to the Desert of Keys, banishing Marinette would be a snap. Bury her in Wrong Keys and let the auto wounds flow.

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I suspect that once we befriend DoA, our supply of Wrong Keys will not be as limited as it is now. Considering she has thousands if not millions of the damn things just laying around.

 

[Pittauro]

The Alicorn bonus + her magic stat should take care of the Grail dc, so the Forge 4 reagent would be enough if she was going to do it without Velvet.

We could just tell all the Names we can summon "Kill her." and hope for the best, my dream strategy would just be Elements of Harmony(like everyone who watched MLP) but we don't have that so cultist strategy it is.

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We might want an action of reagent making, really. Making three lvl 4 reagents to prepare for healing rituals for Velvet, Shining and Twilight.

Luna can heal Twilight (as she'd want nothing to do with us), and we can heal Shining and herself, potentially first to show how it all works.

as for Mareinette... she's still the HEART Name.

We want overwhelming power IF we try. Ideally we'd want both Celestia AND Luna.

...part of me doesn't really want to kill her, you know? We know it's possible to befriend her, the question is if it's possible to befriend her AND stop her from being a monster.

I don't think we'd care if she just went and opened some kind of brothel/Strip club, and even some moderate level of crime is not THAT big of a deal. We mostly want her to... well, not kill and eat foals, I imagine. That... might be possible?

Both Baldomare and Axe seemed to think this Wake and worlds are better than what was before... MAYBE, just maybe, it's possible to bring Mareinette to think the same? We just don't know.

I'm willing to renew the bindings once or twice (if the cost is acceptable) and explore the option at least.

Marinette can be gifted things to extend the bindings, stuff like Amaranthine Nectar, Writhing Caul, Hallowed Polos and Chalice Murmurous will be sufficient favours and almost definitely increase our SL with her too.

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we don't know the price yet. we know it's a gift or a favor, but as we don't know the kind, we can't yet decide if it's worth it.

Bird just said the first price is "cheap" and we'll likely be fine with it, the second might be a bit problematic, and the third is near certainly a NO on our part.

Also I feel like you guys are a bit too optimistic about how easy it'll be to convince Celestia or survive her wrath. Luna vanishing isn't the only issue here, Equestria is currently going through a test and our little reveal will very much be a failure.

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well, we're hoping, but we're also waiting to see what LUNA wants to do.

It IS her sister (and other Half) after all.

the fact we can actually explain WHY Nightmare Moon happened, and have an idea of how to act against that force, would also be something in our favor. We might not want to reveal about Glory and the Outsider, but we could tell them what we know of the Memory of Light and basically have them assist us with Harmony path (while we're working for Glory path on our own).

Man, if only we could open a portal directly to the Desert of Keys, banishing Mareinette would be a snap. Bury her in Wrong Keys and let the auto wounds flow.
Of course then we'd have to deal with a pissed off Mareinette waiting for us in the Mansus, but that's just details.

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...this makes me wonder...

@OurLadyOfWires you told us too specific a ritual would not work.

But How about a banishing ritual to send Mareinette back into the Mansus, or trap her some other way?

then again, the Lores work weirdly on Alukites... Our best bet, honestly, would be the Elements of Harmony, which MIGHT be an option IF Twilight is restored...


that might be our best bet actually. Proceed with Twilight healing, see if she can reestablish her friendship with the Main 6, and then try to use the Elements on Mareinette and see what happens.

 

[darknessworld]

Honestly, it probably would be better if, instead of coming clear with the lores, we just have Luna partially explain the worms to Celestia and what they are doing to the dreamlands.

Then, some time afterwards, at the right moment, Luna will reveal the existence of the lores, something she studied a thousand years ago, and used to put a self-renforcing barrier between the worms and her identity, powers, and lore knowledge.

And while her normal powers eventually were taken, the rest remained safe in the barrier, that lasted for a thousand of years thanks to the inherent strenght of the lores, until Armony purged the worms and restored her identity to the forefront. But she did not manage to completely bring down the barrier Luna made, which was why she did not remember that she knew the lores.
But the attack eventually allowed her to regain all that she did lose.

Tldr, basically lie on what happened to make the lores acceptable to Celestia.

Of course, we'll need Luna's approval, as she is the one that would have to do the whole "explanation", but if Luna wants the lores to be used, at least by her and/or some trusted people, this is probably the best way to convince Celestia.

 

[AuthorTransient]

You have successfully performed the Rite of the Mother and the Father.

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



View: https://i.imgur.com/s2DhJRM.gif

 

[Pittauro]

oh, another possibility.

We don't need to reveal the lores yet. but we could have Luna being hidden be revealed as HER decision.

Have her go "with the last of my sanity, and the blessing of Harmony, I was brought to Velvet. She was tasked with keeping care of the filly I'd turn into, while my mind and souls rested and recovered".

Something like that.

No idea if it would work, but... well, we'll find out soon enough. Surely this will be the very first serious topic we'll talk about with Luna anyway.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Man, if only we could open a portal directly to the Desert of Keys, banishing Mareinette would be a snap. Bury her in Wrong Keys and let the auto wounds flow.
Of course then we'd have to deal with a pissed off Mareinette waiting for us in the Mansus, but that's just details.

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I suspect that once we befriend DoA, our supply of Wrong Keys will not be as limited as it is now. Considering she has thousands if not millions of the damn things just laying around.

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Funny thing is DoA is just carting around a key ring stuffed with Wrong Keys, she can probably casually roll summoned beings that aren't Names by just swinging that thing around. Problem is Marinette isn't a summoned creature, where other Names leave their greater whole in the Mansus both Neighina and Marinette are fully present in the Wake so that part of the Wrong Keys probably doesn't apply.

we don't know the price yet. we know it's a gift or a favor, but as we don't know the kind, we can't yet decide if it's worth it.

Bird just said the first price is "cheap" and we'll likely be fine with it, the second might be a bit problematic, and the third is near certainly a NO on our part.

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The first and perhaps the second request we can pay but the last we will refuse yes. However gifts given of our own accord don't count as that.

What point will there be if they do? Either giving those extends the bindings without being counted as requests or it lets us control the price and that's also very valuable if the price she was going to ask for is something we wouldn't have paid. Plus all of the ones I listed are available at mid to high level expedition sites, the other rewards will be worth it too even if this doesn't work out.

...part of me doesn't really want to kill her, you know? We know it's possible to befriend her, the question is if it's possible to befriend her AND stop her from being a monster.

I don't think we'd care if she just went and opened some kind of brothel/Strip club, and even some moderate level of crime is not THAT big of a deal. We mostly want her to... well, not kill and eat foals, I imagine. That... might be possible?

Both Baldomare and Axe seemed to think this Wake and worlds are better than what was before... MAYBE, just maybe, it's possible to bring Mareinette to think the same? We just don't know.

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Lol, lmao even. Marinette is a Grail Alukite and unrepentant about it too. The eons may have mellowed out Baldomare but they've made her worse.

I was against summoning Marinette specifically because she can't be changed, once summoned you're on a time limit until you have to let her loose the only question being if you can ascend before then.

But How about a banishing ritual to send Mareinette back into the Mansus, or trap her some other way?

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That's probably our best bet but it's still difficult and the kind of thing only the Forge and Knock Names could do in any reasonable time frame while working together.

well, we're hoping, but we're also waiting to see what LUNA wants to do.

It IS her sister (and other Half) after all.

the fact we can actually explain WHY Nightmare Moon happened, and have an idea of how to act against that force, would also be something in our favor. We might not want to reveal about Glory and the Outsider, but we could tell them what we know of the Memory of Light and basically have them assist us with Harmony path (while we're working for Glory path on our own).

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I fear you missed what I was trying to say here, the problem is not how much information and power we can bring, how heavily we can stack the deck in our favour when it comes to the reveal of us being a cultist.

The problem is that we were a member at all.

Luna is only part of the issue here, the fact that Ponykind failed and that Celestia failed them is the other and probably larger part. Sure Luna coming back will slowly and steadily mellow her out but that won't change the fact we're taking the mother of all tests right now. The proctor might be more merciful but the questions and the answers will remain the same.

If we reveal that we were once part of the organisation that attacked Luna, and then was partially responsible for how bad the Catastrophe was. That we wormed our way into her and Cadance's inner circle, that she trusted us with a station so high and important and we were traitor from the start?

Ponykind has failed her last test, no we've done worse then fail we never worthy of taking it in the first place and her leaving peaceably is the best option while Dawnbreaker or some lesser variant of it the worst/most likely.

Also I find it funny as fuck people think we can dictate what story Luna will tell Celestia, at best we will be able to co author it. Most likely we'll only be able to influence it in a certain direction. Let's all calm down and not start wildly speculating yeah? Wait for us to actually talk to her.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Just wait for the GM to post the next update. This speculation is meaningless, until we have all the facts.

 

[Nevermort]

I don't think we'd care if she just went and opened some kind of brothel/Strip club, and even some moderate level of crime is not THAT big of a deal. We mostly want her to... well, not kill and eat foals, I imagine. That... might be possible?

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Would Mareinette even care which species foals she gets to eat? Does eggs count?What about local predators? Changelings?

then again, the Lores work weirdly on Alukites... Our best bet, honestly, would be the Elements of Harmony, which MIGHT be an option IF Twilight is restored...
that might be our best bet actually. Proceed with Twilight healing, see if she can reestablish her friendship with the Main 6, and then try to use the Elements on Mareinette and see what happens.

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Celestia and Luna potentially can Harmony beam her even without Mane 6. All we need is to sincerely believe that we are helping her, so Mareinette does not suspect anything and only feels our care for her. It totally helped Luna .After all worst thing that can happen is thousand years long vacation on Moon's surface

well, we're hoping, but we're also waiting to see what LUNA wants to do.

It IS her sister (and other Half) after all.

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This should be main focus. I don't think that Mareinette is any kind of priority at the moment. How to best put it...

"Now Luna first off all you should be informed that we told nothing about you to Celestia. And we also told nothing about you to Silky. And so we stand before two immense problems. How to make sure that Celestia does not try to sunbeam us all for hiding you. And how to prevent Silky Stream from starting crusade over Selena disappearance... "

Also I find it funny as fuck people think we can dictate what story Luna will tell Celestia, at best we will be able to co author it. Most likely we'll only be able to influence it in a certain direction. Let's all calm down and not start wildly speculating yeah? Wait for us to actually talk to her.

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Well we decide what to tell Luna to begin with. We can give her very short version of our side of events so she does not need to hide much things from Celestia and talk about the rest further down the line or give Luna detailed description of events if it is available option .

Just wait for the GM to post the next update. This speculation is meaningless, until we have all the facts.

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But we have nothing except for speculation!
Does Luna want to bring her two families together? Does she want to tell Celestia about Worms? How Celestia will respond over Luna getting a family on the side? Would Silky and Celestia fight over who is true Luna sister? Would Luna join Velvet in plotting to adopt Celestia to resolve these issues? We will only know in next episodes of our MLP sitcom.

 

[Greymere]

That's probably our best bet but it's still difficult and the kind of thing only the Forge and Knock Names could do in any reasonable time frame while working together.

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I mean, arming Biedde with several keyrings full of Wrong Keys and some kind of anti-Mansus creature weapon plus Luna with A Resolution also sounds like a viable plan.

Like I know that Mareinette is Bird's favorite Name, but also I don't think Luna would want a monster like Mareinette running around Equestria completely unbound to someone with more conventional morals and mindset, and Bird has stayed consistent w/ character motivations so far.

 

[Pittauro]

If we reveal that we were once part of the organisation that attacked Luna, and then was partially responsible for how bad the Catastrophe was. That we wormed our way into her and Cadance's inner circle, that she trusted us with a station so high and important and we were traitor from the start?

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We also betrayed them AND restored Luna AND killed the cult leader/monster, and Luna can vouch for that. That has to count for something

Also the Catastrophe was the changelings. We have no responsibility there, and it would be hard to connect it to us in any case.

Also I find it funny as fuck people think we can dictate what story Luna will tell Celestia, at best we will be able to co author it. Most likely we'll only be able to influence it in a certain direction. Let's all calm down and not start wildly speculating yeah? Wait for us to actually talk to her.

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well, OF COURSE it's mostly up to Luna. That was never in discussion.

we're talking just to talk while we wait, to try and theorize if the situation changed enough that former GAME OVER options are now more viable.

Celestia and Luna potentially can Harmony beam her even without Mane 6. All we need is to sincerely believe that we are helping her, so Mareinette does not suspect anything and only feels our care for her. It totally helped Luna .After all worst thing that can happen is thousand years long vacation on Moon's surface

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they very much can't. They MIGHT be able to kill her MAYBE.

Well we decide what to tell Luna to begin with. We can give her very short version of our side of events so she does not need to hide much things from Celestia and talk about the rest further down the line or give Luna detailed description of events if it is available option .

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that's admittedly true.

Right now she knows we know these weird magics, that we found her, taught her and cared for her.

She can probably connect the dots that hose weird magics are the same as what was used against her.

But she doesn't know we were part of the cult that attacked her. And if there's one eldritc association, why couldn't there be two? For all she knows we opposed them from the start in some kind of shadow war.

 

[Roaming_Guardian]

Also the Catastrophe was the changelings. We have no responsibility there, and it would be hard to connect it to us in any case.

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It may or may not help to point out that, at the time, the Cult was actually acting against the Changelings. And we kept Ponyville from catching fire.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I mean, arming Biedde with several keyrings full of Wrong Keys and some kind of anti-Mansus creature weapon plus Luna with A Resolution also sounds like a viable plan.

Like I know that Mareinette is Bird's favorite Name, but also I don't think Luna would want a monster like Mareinette running around Equestria completely unbound to someone with more conventional morals and mindset, and Bird has stayed consistent w/ character motivations so far.

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Okay this might just be me but I don't think mechanically being able to kill her will mean we have the ability to actually do so. To clarify what I mean, on paper we could get a squad together that just low diffs her but it wouldn't work for one reason or another. As in she's reduced to a blood smear but still alive and at that point we're left with imprisoning a diminished Name Alukite who hates our guts, which I suppose is better then just leaving her to muck about in the wake. The reason I think this is that in universe (I'm talking SH here not the quest) there has never been mention of an Alukite being struck down, Hours, Names and Long yes but never an Alukite. It'd take the direct intervention of an Hour to do so and I really don't want to burn another RA.

We also betrayed them AND restored Luna AND killed the cult leader/monster, and Luna can vouch for that. That has to count for something

Also the Catastrophe was the changelings. We have no responsibility there, and it would be hard to connect it to us in any case.

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For the first statement I don't think it will matter.

For the second, one can argue that the reason the catastrophe was as bad as it was was due to the Master backing Chrysalis into a corner, had they just done a stealth mission to get everything they wanted before slowly rooting out the infestation or at least getting Celestia free to do so then it wouldn't be near as bad. Us not being the person making the decision won't matter just like us not being the one who did the ritual doesn't matter.

We aided and abetted and that's bad enough.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Trying to kill Mareinette is an exercise in stupidity. She's fought off entire armies, entire Edge name attack groups, etc. And reminder Mareinette is Heart 6 will into just coming back from burned to dust level survial ablity.

 

[Nevermort]

they very much can't. They MIGHT be able to kill her MAYBE.

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I think I remember sisters using elements of harmony on their own, 3 elements per sister or something along those lines. I can be mistaken , but I think they stopped Discord with them. If Luna fully restored herself she should be able to do it.