Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Venerable Ro · Monday at 12:03 PM

Y'all do know that we don't need all this hoop-jumping to get the Forge's Redemption rolling, right? We can literally just tell Cadance that "we've got a plan to fix Shining's horn and we want to test it on our own scar first to make sure it's safe so would she mind visiting?" Involving the Bureau if anything will slow down the process because then we'll have to wait until we can reasonably explain being able to first identify and then accumulate the requisite Lores. It'll be retroactively impossible, the more our people learn the more they'll understand that "we tried it out of desperation and got lucky" isn't a good explanation at all.

Cadance can simply tell anyone who asks about Shining's recovery that "it was the power of Love", it won't even be a lie if we teach her how to do it herself.

Edit: I'm worried that people are doing exactly what Bird warned us about, and are voting for the outcome they want rather than the action that might produce said outcome. Bird was very clear that the results of this sort of thing are quite subject to our own investigators willingness to believe the documents they uncover, and we deliberately hired professional skeptics, also known as detectives. If we lead with an esoteric ritual guaranteed to cure any physical ailment before establishing the curative/shaping power of Grail and Forge nobody's going to have any reason to believe it's anything but the ravings of a madpony.

On a similar note, Velvet Covers does not know about Midday Dew's Lantern society, Celestia's Lantern levels, their forays into the Bounds; or anything at all besides his name, his access to a frighteningly powerful Lantern artifact, and the fact that he gave us fripping useless Candle Dust. Velvet Covers genuinely doesn't have any reason at all to spread the Lores to anyone but her own trusted Bureau.

Ominous warnings about nightmare Worms and promises of impossible-to-modern-magic cure-all rituals are, IMO, more likely to sabotage credibility than give us the start we need in this laundering endeavor.

Anyway, that's my grumpy end-of-night-shift complaining done, just so I can say I said summat.

Pittauro · Monday at 12:41 PM

Shaper47 said:
True but I really prefer to save that for level 4 scraps. It's just so much more efficient.

Besides we want to time the heart influence with the Ruined Church expedition.

if we get that lucky sure, but I doubt it. We'd be lucky to get one level 3 heart book out of 2 searches.

Shaper47 said:
Ponyville has heart and forge books which are what we need.

that makes them more likely, not a guaranteed find. And we actually don't know how MUCH more likely than the other lores.

OurLadyOfWires said:
I understand the argument that Eclipse (or anyone else) might not notice the Dreamlands because it is literally in the opposite direction of Glory (you go from the Crossroads and head AWAY from the Mansus to get there), and the Glory is the epitome of "shiny object that attracts attention".

I think I asked this already, but just in case... is there anywhere ELSE we can explore/go from the crossroads other than Ashen Wastes/Mansus and the "portal" to the dreamlands?

Greymere said:
There is a middle ground between "taking no risk" and "basically ensuring we're going to get caught", and this is not that. If every piece of evidence is something like a -10 (which, I feel would be fair?) to the investigation DC, this would bring it down by -120, because every Lore treatise is a seperate piece of evidence. The benefits of this is absolutely not worth the likelihood that it would backfire on us.

If the penalty per evidence is higher than -10, it guarantees that we'd get caught.

which makes perfect sense.

Finding one or two manuscripts / pieces of evidence is not THAT suspicious.

Finding TWENTY such pieces of evidence (reminder: EVERY MANUSCRIPT IS A DIFFERENT PIECE!) basically screams they were planted there to be found.

And the more things we're adding to the scene of the crime, the more likely someone will make a mistake.

So... I'd say three, maybe FOUR pieces of information is the limit of what we can afford.

my opinion is currently "redemption of the forge, forge lore, grail lore". three pieces of evidence, enough to give the bureau the healing ritual and lvl 1 in those lores. Enough of an excuse for Velvet to discover her "talent" for the field and make a reckless decision to heal her secretary's horn with this.

Venerable Ro said:
-[X] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).

uh. this is an interesting idea.

If we could sell the idea they were trying to replace us, replicate our hoofprint and so on, that might free us from the need to destroy the manuscripts...

Venerable Ro said:
-[X] The old (presumed) journal of Starswirl the Bearded along with partial translation notes detailing a hidden path through the crystal caves of Canterlot. Clearly of immense historical significance, and possibly the origin of this esoteric branch of magic. Perhaps the Bureau should take charge of this investigation...

no, I refuse to give them our expedition site! We're so close!

Venerable Ro said:
Y'all do know that we don't need all this hoop-jumping to get the Forge's Redemption rolling, right? We can literally just tell Cadance that "we've got a plan to fix Shining's horn and we want to test it on our own scar first to make sure it's safe so would she mind visiting?" Involving the Bureau if anything will slow down the process because then we'll have to wait until we can reasonably explain being able to first identify and then accumulate the requisite Lores. It'll be retroactively impossible, the more our people learn the more they'll understand that "we tried it out of desperation and got lucky" isn't a good explanation at all.

Cadance can simply tell anyone who asks about Shining's recovery that "it was the power of Love", it won't even be a lie if we teach her how to do it herself.

Edit: I'm worried that people are doing exactly what Bird warned us about, and are voting for the outcome they want rather than the action that might produce said outcome. Bird was very clear that the results of this sort of thing are quite subject to our own investigators willingness to believe the documents they uncover, and we deliberately hired professional skeptics, also known as detectives. If we lead with an esoteric ritual guaranteed to cure any physical ailment before establishing the curative/shaping power of Grail and Forge nobody's going to have any reason to believe it's anything but the ravings of a madpony.

On a similar note, Velvet Covers does not know about Midday Dew's Lantern society, Celestia's Lantern levels, their forays into the Bounds; or anything at all besides his name, his access to a frighteningly powerful Lantern artifact, and the fact that he gave us fripping useless Candle Dust. Velvet Covers genuinely doesn't have any reason at all to spread the Lores to anyone but her own trusted Bureau.

Ominous warnings about nightmare Worms and promises of impossible-to-modern-magic cure-all rituals are, IMO, more likely to sabotage credibility than give us the start we need in this laundering endeavor.

Anyway, that's my grumpy end-of-night-shift complaining done, just so I can say I said summat.

eh, I think it's easier to justify the healing ritual if we introduce it now than if we have Cadance do it secretly.

I agree on it being too soon for the Worms though.

Venerable Ro · Monday at 12:57 PM

Pittauro said:
which makes perfect sense.

Finding one or two manuscripts / pieces of evidence is not THAT suspicious.

Thus my idea to write an introductory "For Dummies" booklet with an accompanying "How Not To Go Mad" pamphlet, basically creating training materials of the sort that a cult might actually produce anyway. In other words, creating evidence that is as plausible as possible rather than "randomly a treatise about forging in a cult full of seducers".

Pittauro said:
uh. this is an interesting idea.

If we could sell the idea they were trying to replace us, replicate our hoofprint and so on, that might free us from the need to destroy the manuscripts...

All credit to whoever I stole it from, like, three or four pages back in the thread. It is an inspired idea.

Pittauro said:
no, I refuse to give them our expedition site! We're so close!

I'm not sure I trust you on expeditions anymore... (I kid, I kid, but seriously man)

Pittauro said:
eh, I think it's easier to justify the healing ritual if we introduce it now than if we have Cadance do it secretly.

Justify, yes, expedite it, no. If the Bureau knows then we have to move at the Bureau's pace, or else prepare a whole "it looked like a horrible risk but was actually quite safe" kabuki stageshow. Smuggling in +60-something points of Forge reagent, are we going to have Cadance carry in a set of Forge 4 Forge/Grail 2/2 reagents in a diplomatic pouch or summat?

Admittedly that would be quite the narrative spectacle...

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 1:04 PM

After more clarification from the GM it is clear should only give force 2. Forge is the most useful thing for our people to learn, as that the start of building lore defenses which we need. It not to much so they won't discover it was planted evidence. Forge 2 is enough they could makes something better then the useless candle dust so it immediately actionable knowledge. And at level 2 forge the benefits of learning the lords are clear enough that our people will want to peruse development of lore knowledge themselves.

BIG issue with giving lore knowledge is we need to make our people WANT to develop it themselves or it will do NOTHING.

DelightedOne · Monday at 1:07 PM

Pittauro said:
no, I refuse to give them our expedition site! We're so close!

I think even if we told them about it we would still need to order them to go on the Expedition for it to happen and since we have a changeling proto-hive there is an excuse to wait a bit, take care of it and while the Bureau is busy we send DoA armed to the fangs with Artifacts to take care of part 3.

Bakkasama · Monday at 2:09 PM

I think that it should be fine if we give them the primer about the Mansus and Lores an let them work things out.

THAT said, if people feel like we should speed up the Burau's development, then maybe we should go with Knock? Level 0 should be enough to enter the Mansus but does knowing that the Lores exist count as enough to get to that level? Might as well try to guarantee it by getting somepony to level one, everything else needed can be found in the Mansus.

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 2:11 PM

The point of planting fake evidence is that the pony's wont get anything from it, and thus once they notice it fake which will happen eventually, these are the top mortals they will fact check the fake stuff, and discover its false. That will then make all other evidence they gathered suspect, and less likely to be believed. It actually makes it harder to get the lores into the Bureau if we plant fake evidence.

[x] How to build basic defenses.
-[x] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (FORGE: Level 2 )

Sveta08 · Monday at 2:19 PM

[X] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
-[X] Plant Lore Manuscript detailing the hiding of Changelings (Moth 1)
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)

The Wendigos.
The. Windogos.
The Win. Do. Gos.
The historical creatures that nearly ended Equestria? The nightmare made manifest formed and drawn from the Wolf? The one which there are three unaccounted for potential loose or in service to a Winter Name? The edge of something that makes sense and where myth is manifest? Those things?
What is gonna happen if the Bureau finds those jars? Either they open them (bad) or they bring them back to investigate at Canterlot (worse).
NEED. I remind you if summoned into a jar, that jar has a maintenance cost! One that a scattered cult most likely will not pay!

I feel like I'm shouting into the void. This is going to be a problem! An outside context problem! This is one we can try to head off on the cuff! And give the Bureau the tools to potentially know of the lores at the same time!

AND by anchoring that information in treaties on how Changelings hide, something the Bureau knows is real, it helps give the rest of it credence! It helps anchor it in realty!

I don't cry out in plea, but.... Please! You have to see this, don't you?

Bakkasama · Monday at 2:30 PM

Sveta08 said:
[X] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
-[X] Plant Lore Manuscript detailing the hiding of Changelings (Moth 1)
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)

The Wendigos.
The. Windogos.
The Win. Do. Gos.
The historical creatures that nearly ended Equestria? The nightmare made manifest formed and drawn from the Wolf? The one which there are three unaccounted for potential loose or in service to a Winter Name? The edge of something that makes sense and where myth is manifest? Those things?
What is gonna happen if the Bureau finds those jars? Either they open them (bad) or they bring them back to investigate at Canterlot (worse).
NEED. I remind you if summoned into a jar, that jar has a maintenance cost! One that a scattered cult most likely will not pay!

I feel like I'm shouting into the void. This is going to be a problem! An outside context problem! This is one we can try to head off on the cuff! And give the Bureau the tools to potentially know of the lores at the same time!

AND by anchoring that information in treaties on how Changelings hide, something the Bureau knows is real, it helps give the rest of it credence! It helps anchor it in realty!

I don't cry out in plea, but.... Please! You have to see this, don't you?

We don't know enough about Neighea's plans to guess whether she would use the Windigos or not. What we do know is that there are some windigos unaccounted for and that it takes 20 bits per turn to keep them bound and that we just left Copper's cult headless and stole all the loot we could. You might have more success using that as an argument since we don't know who has then or how long they can keep them bound.

The treatise about changelings doesn't actually prove that the changeling transformation uses the lores since it could be an hypothesis or mad ravings.

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 2:31 PM

A it very likely Mareinette made off with the Wendigos. And B Wendigos are just not a noticeable threat as a whole. Any team of soldiers could easily kill 3-10 Wendigos. It the Ashspawn that are an issue as they can be summoned in mass by anybody.

OurLadyOfWires · Monday at 2:38 PM

Earth-Destroyer said:
A it very likely Mareinette made off with the Wendigos. And B Wendigos are just not a noticeable threat as a whole. Any team of soldiers could easily kill 3-10 Wendigos. It the Ashspawn that are an issue as they can be summoned in mass by anybody.

Goes to check Shining "Heroic Soldier" Armor's stats.
Yeah, that still reads "+25" for personal combat.
Goes to check "end-of-ponykind" Windigos stats.
Mhm, mhm. They still roll with a +55 against ponies.
Checks if anything "bad" would happen, in particular, if Windigos happen to be working together.
Well, to be fair, thats only BAD if you are not a Wolf worshipper. But lets be honest, who isnt?

Jokes aside. Your math isn't mathing chief

Sveta08 · Monday at 2:51 PM

Bakkasama said:
The treatise about changelings doesn't actually prove that the changeling transformation uses the lores since it could be an hypothesis or mad ravings

Oh, cast doubt on me again will you?

Sure! If we presume all things equal, it could be dismissed as mad rantings and ravings. But, unlike something miraculous, like repairing a broken unicorns horn, people have seen changelings change. And. The Bureau is actively aware of other changelings! And doesn't know how they hide. And is duty bound to investigate potential leads into problems dealing with Changelings!

No, it doesn't _prove_ anything. Nothing here will. Don't level that strawman at me.

But again!
The Windogos! Are there! And are going to be a problem!

Pittauro · Monday at 3:57 PM

Bakkasama said:
I think that it should be fine if we give them the primer about the Mansus and Lores an let them work things out.

THAT said, if people feel like we should speed up the Burau's development, then maybe we should go with Knock? Level 0 should be enough to enter the Mansus but does knowing that the Lores exist count as enough to get to that level? Might as well try to guarantee it by getting somepony to level one, everything else needed can be found in the Mansus.

thing is, at least I personally don't care about the Bureau getting access to the Mansus.

I just want to introduce the lores to them for rituals, ritual knowledge, and eventually for infrastructural bonuses.

on a side note... there's been a few ideas mentioned for things we could plant.

what about the former changeling hive's location? the one destroyed by Windigoes and cult?

Velvet technically doesn't know it, BUT she could easily ask Comet for it, so it's doable.

@OurLadyOfWires What is left of/in the Hive, assuming Comet can tell us/remembers? Do we believe there's any worth in letting the Bureau access their former hive?

Sveta08 said:
The Wendigos.
The. Windogos.
The Win. Do. Gos.
The historical creatures that nearly ended Equestria? The nightmare made manifest formed and drawn from the Wolf? The one which there are three unaccounted for potential loose or in service to a Winter Name? The edge of something that makes sense and where myth is manifest? Those things?
What is gonna happen if the Bureau finds those jars? Either they open them (bad) or they bring them back to investigate at Canterlot (worse).
NEED. I remind you if summoned into a jar, that jar has a maintenance cost! One that a scattered cult most likely will not pay!

I feel like I'm shouting into the void. This is going to be a problem! An outside context problem! This is one we can try to head off on the cuff! And give the Bureau the tools to potentially know of the lores at the same time!

AND by anchoring that information in treaties on how Changelings hide, something the Bureau knows is real, it helps give the rest of it credence! It helps anchor it in realty!

I don't cry out in plea, but.... Please! You have to see this, don't you?

If we want to deal with the Windigoes, I think our best option is to scry for their location and send Biedde and/or a team to quickly dispose of them.

Do we even have a way to dispose of them WITHOUT triggering a fight?

OurLadyOfWires said:
Goes to check Shining "Heroic Soldier" Armor's stats.
Yeah, that still reads "+25" for personal combat.
Goes to check "end-of-ponykind" Windigos stats.
Mhm, mhm. They still roll with a +55 against ponies.
Checks if anything "bad" would happen, in particular, if Windigos happen to be working together.
Well, to be fair, thats only BAD if you are not a Wolf worshipper. But lets be honest, who isnt?

Jokes aside. Your math isn't mathing chief

yep, this.

Now, a group of ponies WILL, if they don't run away in fear, EVENTUALLY win a fight with a Windigo through raw number of rolls. At some point they'll get lucky.

BUT

1)They need to stay in a fight to the death, without retreating, until it's won
2)They CAN'T disengage at any point, or the Windigoes will HEAL

AuthorTransient · Monday at 4:03 PM

It's like dealing with Chrysalis all over again. Need for personal safety against a seemingly omnipresent threat (Celestia) vying against safety of innocents. The Windigos are absolutely a problem - so, how about we immediately risk an insane amount of suspicion to plant every single thing the Lunar Bureau should know there?

Surprise! Princess Luna was being kept prisoner in Manehatten this whole time and managed to break free! However while she was in the presence of A) very dangerous cult in the Wake summoning Windigos, she learned about B) very dangerous Worm threat in the Dreamlands, and C) the Lores. Or something.

What I mean is that, to an outsider, it would seem that there's 3 parties - 1, the Cult in Manehatten, who attacked 2, Velvet Covers, and 3, whoever blew up the Manehatten Cult. So if we plant a bunch of stuff in the wreckage, it would be seen as the work of the external 3rd party, not Velvet Covers. But it would still be very risky.

Pittauro said:
If we want to deal with the Windigoes, I think our best option is to scry for their location and send Biedde and/or a team to quickly dispose of them.

Yeah, probably. Damnation, I thought Biedde would be legitimately helping us a la Baldomare and Axe, but no he has his own weird agenda that makes things more complicated for everyone. Probably some nonsense like causing chaos and war and destruction in the Wake to create some kind of crucible for the Edge worthy.

EDIT: Maybe he'll ease off if we get an Edge sacrament or if our Lantern beats his Moth.

EDIT 2: Wait, we already have Lantern 4. Like ??? what is his motive even.

Sveta08 · Monday at 4:14 PM

Pittauro said:
If we want to deal with the Windigoes, I think our best option is to scry for their location and send Biedde and/or a team to quickly dispose of them.

Do we even have a way to dispose of them WITHOUT triggering a fight

True enough. Sending the name of Edge to deal with them one at a time is effective. We don't have a Knock Ritual of unsummoning.

This however, misses the point! This is not a "Fix the Windigo" thing. We can't do that with this action. This is a "Hey, Bureau, don't touch this and accidentally kill yourself and others" thing. This is Prevention. Not Cure, not Solution, but Prevention. Prevent the little powderkeg there from going poorly.

Especially since,,we don't know where the Winter Name is! And also, the last thing we need is for Windy to be out there, wistfully pining for the end, only to see Wendigos erupting in Manhattan and go *Oh boy! It's time!"

Is any of it likely? I have no clue! I don't know if those Jars were kept in the building, or where Copper was moving things to, or if they were on the top floor that Luna vaporized. Or if the Winter Name just up and ate them! But this is something that, at worst, will give the Investigators some answers about the ice and some questions for Velvet, which they already had. At best, this saves their lives and prevents a minor to major catastrophy.

This is not about us dealing with the Wendigos in a permanent way! This is about the prevention of a problem.
Am I ringing any bells, are people seeing what I'm saying? I don't know how better to ring the bells, to sound the alarm. To prevent stepping on the landmine with teeth.

Talon Tiger Dino · Monday at 4:16 PM

Venerable Ro said:
Y'all do know that we don't need all this hoop-jumping to get the Forge's Redemption rolling, right? We can literally just tell Cadance that "we've got a plan to fix Shining's horn and we want to test it on our own scar first to make sure it's safe so would she mind visiting?" Involving the Bureau if anything will slow down the process because then we'll have to wait until we can reasonably explain being able to first identify and then accumulate the requisite Lores. It'll be retroactively impossible, the more our people learn the more they'll understand that "we tried it out of desperation and got lucky" isn't a good explanation at all.

Cadance can simply tell anyone who asks about Shining's recovery that "it was the power of Love", it won't even be a lie if we teach her how to do it herself.

Edit: I'm worried that people are doing exactly what Bird warned us about, and are voting for the outcome they want rather than the action that might produce said outcome. Bird was very clear that the results of this sort of thing are quite subject to our own investigators willingness to believe the documents they uncover, and we deliberately hired professional skeptics, also known as detectives. If we lead with an esoteric ritual guaranteed to cure any physical ailment before establishing the curative/shaping power of Grail and Forge nobody's going to have any reason to believe it's anything but the ravings of a madpony.

Ominous warnings about nightmare Worms and promises of impossible-to-modern-magic cure-all rituals are, IMO, more likely to sabotage credibility than give us the start we need in this laundering endeavor.

I just want it to be in the heads of more than just a couple of Alicorns, Names, and a very talented Cultist. I want an institution to have this ritual on file. That is the result I want and so it is what I am voting for, so that it has a chance of becoming something a little more common than a Miracle of Love.

Pittauro said:
If we want to deal with the Windigoes, I think our best option is to scry for their location and send Biedde and/or a team to quickly dispose of them.

Do we even have a way to dispose of them WITHOUT triggering a fight?

I still hope that DoA can crack the lid open, toss in a bunch of Wrong Keys, and hold the urn shut until a comical *bang* occurs and that is left inside is wisps of the Windigo's passing.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 4:17 PM

[X] Plan Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)

[X] Plan Ritual Knowledge

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)

[X] Plan Dream Warning

[X] Plan Basic Int Test

[X] Plan A Colder Nudge

[X] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten

Talon Tiger Dino · Monday at 4:22 PM

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)
-[X] Plant the details of the Forge's Redemption

Alright, different version of my plan where we tell people not to poke ~~the mummy gold~~ the weird urns of awful vibes, while still sneaking in that wonderful ritual of healing.

And if they do poke the funny urn, well, the confirmation of the warning will also lend credence to the ritual being legitimate.

Alan975 · Monday at 4:23 PM

I really do feel like this is not the best voting system to go with, it becomes a big plate of spaghetti to keep track of and no-one agrees on what action leads to what result.

Could we just elect a leader instead? Base the result on wherever a chicken shits?

Sveta08 · Monday at 4:30 PM

Alan975 said:
I really do feel like this is not the best voting system to go with, it becomes a big plate of spaghetti to keep track of and no-one agrees on what action leads to what result.

Could we just elect a leader instead? Base the result on wherever a chicken shits?

Welcome to Direct Democracy vs Representative Democracy. And. People already do follow the path they are most convinced of.

AuthorTransient said:
Damnation, I thought Biedde would be legitimately helping us a la Baldomare and Axe, but no he has his own weird agenda that makes things more complicated for everyone. Probably some nonsense like causing chaos and war and destruction in the Wake to create some kind of crucible for the Edge worthy.

As for this, I have a vague idea I'll share later. For now-

The Wendigos. The thing the Bureau are likely to find and likely to be a problem. That's my focus. Moth a close second, but I'll just take one for now.

Talon Tiger Dino · Monday at 4:39 PM

A reminder that we don't know how the Changeling shapeshifting works anymore. They lost their ability to lie to the world, after all. Unless that was a temporary thing when the stone was Subverted. Wait, we saw one post-Subversion!

@OurLadyOfWires , did Velvet notice any difference between Changeling disguises before and Changeling disguises after the Catastrophe?

spiderhellian · Monday at 4:39 PM

Seems reasonable, your impassioned pleas have convinced at least one person @Sveta08!

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning

In addition to the rest...

[X] Plan: Overview with a warning
[X] Plan A Gentle Nudge
[X] Plan A Colder Nudge
[X] Plan Insurance for the Future

Alan975 said:
I really do feel like this is not the best voting system to go with, it becomes a big plate of spaghetti to keep track of and no-one agrees on what action leads to what result.

Hahahahaha I think this is the nature of an important, super open-ended vote where the consequences are so opaque and highly-variable. We don't even have a great sense of how much risk each marginal piece of info produces! Opens a lot of debate, a lot of different plans... But I'm not sure a better approach.

Talon Tiger Dino · Monday at 4:43 PM

Yeah, I urge everyone to consider doing what's needed to prevent accidental Windigo bombings

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 4:46 PM

Talon Tiger Dino said:
[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)
-[X] Plant the details of the Forge's Redemption

Alright, different version of my plan where we tell people not to poke ~~the mummy gold~~ the weird urns of awful vibes, while still sneaking in that wonderful ritual of healing.

And if they do poke the funny urn, well, the confirmation of the warning will also lend credence to the ritual being legitimate.

None of this actually accomplishes your goal thou. Wendigos are a none factor 3 or even 10 Wendigos die when Equestira sends 5,000 royal guard to handle them. And important Wendigos are a known issue that Equestria is designed from the ground up to handle.

Giving them details of the Forge's Redemption does nothing because the cannot understand it. Only people that have passed into the Mansus proper have the information to utilize circles. To them it will just look like a weird spell that when they try it will do nothing, because they lack the fundamental lore knowledge.

Just giving them Forge 2 lore does more for you stated goals then your currant plan. As they might actually be able to get into the Mansus to start learning the Lore's proper. Reminder you instantly learn Forge's redemption upon getting into the Mansus.

Sveta08 · Monday at 5:00 PM

Earth-Destroyer said:
Wendigos are a none factor 3 or even 10 Wendigos die when Equestira sends 5,000 royal guard to handle them. And important Wendigos are a known issue that Equestria is designed from the ground up to handle.

You are a fool and a detractor. Even the word of QM spoke out against such an idea. Equestria is designed ground up to promote Harmony. Wendigos laugh and prey upon such things sowing and reaping disquiet and fear where are they fly. And where shall these five thousand royal guards come from? Can they all fly and give chase? Shouldst so many exist, then the Wendigos must need only harry and harm them, a war of attrition, peeling and tearing away into their ranks one by one. With Paranoia nipping at their heels, with Evil back in the world... I wouldst not give Ash a voice made of cold and suffering. Nothing, I repeat, nothing exists in a vacuum.

Talon Tiger Dino said:
A reminder that we don't know how the Changeling shapeshifting works anymore. They lost their ability to lie to the world, after all

This too I have an idea on. Harmony colored and lantern bright. But I will not detract from the issue close in hand. The ice and cold and bitter fear that drinks deep from the Wounds the wolves weave.

We must prevent them from releasing. Surely you can see this?

Greymere · Monday at 5:33 PM

AuthorTransient said:
What I mean is that, to an outsider, it would seem that there's 3 parties - 1, the Cult in Manehatten, who attacked 2, Velvet Covers, and 3, whoever blew up the Manehatten Cult. So if we plant a bunch of stuff in the wreckage, it would be seen as the work of the external 3rd party, not Velvet Covers. But it would still be very risky.

It's explicitly capable of being traced back to our faction if we leave too much behind, not just a general "3rd party interference".

Alan975 said:
I really do feel like this is not the best voting system to go with, it becomes a big plate of spaghetti to keep track of and no-one agrees on what action leads to what result.

Could we just elect a leader instead? Base the result on wherever a chicken shits?

I think that's called "writing a novel", not "playing a quest".

Portec · Monday at 5:35 PM

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)
-[X] Plant the details of the Forge's Redemption

[X] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
-[X] Plant Lore Manuscript detailing the hiding of Changelings (Moth 1)
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)

T
My biggest problem is that I do not know what plans are going around.

Greymere · Monday at 5:36 PM

Earth-Destroyer said:
None of this actually accomplishes your goal thou. Wendigos are a none factor 3 or even 10 Wendigos die when Equestira sends 5,000 royal guard to handle them. And important Wendigos are a known issue that Equestria is designed from the ground up to handle.

Yes, because as everyone knows, Equestrian has 5k royal guards hiding in every building like a clown car in case of surprise Windigo attacks.

Surely it's not like Windigos are capable of mass civilian deaths in the time it would take to mobilize that degree of force or anything.

Edit:

Portec said:
My biggest problem is that I do not know what plans are going around.

I'll throw something together. Give me like. 15 minutes or something.

DelightedOne · Monday at 5:58 PM

Also another thing everyone seems to forget is Windigos are considered holiday monsters in Equestria because the origin of Hearth's Warming is the main, if not the only account of their existence.

Tirek was the only character that showed any awareness of their existence as real in canon when they came back and I'm not sure if Celestia is old enough to have seen the world pre-Equestria(since the Windigos were banished when Equestria was founded), so she may not know they are real too.

And before anyone starts talking about "how could they not believe in it, it really happened" please remember that Luna was forgotten by Equestria and turned into a story(that may have been Celestia's doing if she couldn't handle being reminded about "failing her sister"). The pre-Equestria era was even further back so records could not even exist about Windigos being real, if they are not being treated as fiction.

So the Bureau might not take it seriously if there are a bunch of papers talking about Windigos being summoned using ritualistic circles and being put in jars.

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 6:07 PM

Greymere said:
Yes, because as everyone knows, Equestrian has 5k royal guards hiding in every building like a clown car in case of surprise Windigo attacks.

Frankly if the Ponies don't have a rapid response force 10k strong ready an able to teleport to any area of Equestria 10 in minuets flat, that on them. That the bare minimum basic level, stuff they should have for their level magical ability. Especially with the recent militarization the nation is undergoing.

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