Exalted 3E Discussion

[horngeek]

I'm honestly thinking more Scorpion Clan from L5R, except a force for good (because I suck at playing really jerky characters).

That said, I've got more than a few ideas. And said Night Caste will likely use Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style.

(the possibilities of using that style to tie up someone amuse me and would likely be used in a kidnapping if one was needed)

 

[Bre Karn]

So, on reading a bit further:

I'm amused that Lunars can stack two attributes with a stunt for dice capping purposes.

I find the quick characters to be mostly useless - the only thing it accelerates is the basic dice pools, I find powers very clunky, especially the 'dice tricks' that IMHO are the biggest scam of this edition.

I'll probably do as someone suggested on SV and keep 'dice tricks' in Evocations - mostly keeping it as small modifiers that generally do not interact with dice caps.

 

[nick012000]

Resurrection, Time Travel, etc aren't impossible in the line. They are impossible via sorcery. They will also never get explicit support. It is the very intentional design goal that they be unachievable via one particular route and that no comment be made otherwise, not that they be unachievable.

That said, 1e/2e offered any number of ways of pseudo-resurrection that tipped about as close as you can possibly get toward it without really touching the concept.

(Well, there was one canonical method of accomplishing it, but it was a bit wonky, if thematic.)

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You can probably also cheat the "no time travel" restriction by opening portals into alternate universes that just happen to have a present that is "located in the past", relative to your own history. Build a portal to the world depicted in the (now non-canonical) Dreams of the First Age, punch Desus right in his smug face, and steal all their shiny bits to help rebuild your own Second Age kingdom!

 

[Darkened]

I have been looking everywhere for good art of guys who look like they could be a bronze age James Bond. Let me know if you find any!

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http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs8/i/2005/306/c/4/Sig_character_spread_by_MelUran.jpg

Far left... What? Elias is totally Exalted James Bond.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DMCNeo/media/Sidereal.jpg.html

Also, yeah...

 

[tehelgee]

I have created an IRC dicebot for Exalted 3E and connected it to the channel.

!ex # will roll # ten sided dice, with double 10s.
!exdam # will roll # dice with no doubles of any kind.
!exd9 # will roll # dice with Double 9s.
!exd8 # will roll # dice with Double 8s.
!exd7 # will roll # dice with Double 7s.

!expl #1 #2 #3 will roll #1 dice and reroll any #2 or #3 that appears. The #3 is optional, but the #2 isn't. This version follows the Double 10s rule.

You can figure out how the other #expl commands will work from there.

You can pm the bot any of those commands, and !help, to get a response only in PM instead of the channel.

Pm the bot with !join #yourchannel to have it connect to the given channel.

 

[tehelgee]

Your glorious overlord comes bearing more goodies.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3I6-eDu-lQ6aUZDaS14Tlh1a3c&usp=drive_web

I have consolidated the things I've made here and made it shareable. That way there's only one link for everything. Right now, everything is a character sheet and an initiative tracker.

 

[John At Dawn]

What is Solar XP and why does it exist?

 

[Nervaqus987]

What is Solar XP and why does it exist?

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Solar XP is special XP you get, basically, by playing a compelling character, having your Flaws come to bite you in the ass, fulfilling a character's narrative milestones, etc.

It can be spent on basically anything except Solar Charms.

It exists, basically, as incentive to role play well and to help pay for things like Attributes or whatever without eating into your Charm budget.


Also, before you ask, no it isn't limited to just Solars. That's just the name. It can be earned by anyone.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

It can be spent on basically anything except Solar your splat's Charms.

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I think this is more correct?

 

[Nervaqus987]

I think this is more correct?

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Probably.

 

[John At Dawn]

It can be spent on basically anything except Solar Charms.

Also, before you ask, no it isn't limited to just Solars. That's just the name. It can be earned by anyone.

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Then it should be called something different.

 

[Biigoh]

Fairy XP

 

[kinglugia]

Fairy XP

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No, no...AWESOME XP

 

[tehelgee]

Then it should be called something different.

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I think this is more correct?

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Until more splats drop, we don't know that the others will have their own, or its just a Solar thing.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Until more splats drop, we don't know that the others will have their own, or its just a Solar thing.

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Well, unless it's a rug that got pulled out from under us like Martial Arts Techniques, their prior statement is that Solar XP means 'the highest form of XP', and that all exalts get it.

 

[evildice]

Please respond to the question that I actually asked rather than attempting to change the subject: How is stealth unlike Ignis Divine, despite him spending half his time using stealth?

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Being absent from the sky does not actually require a Stealth roll, just like a person being absent from a room / city / continent does not require a Stealth roll, so you're using a faulty premise here.

As an example: there is not a number of dice you could roll to find my post on page 10 of this thread, because there are currently zero posts by me on page 10 of this thread. That's not my epic Stealth skills at work.

Ah, I see.
You meant that a Solar won't be better than all of her underlings, servants, and vassals, at everything.

Well, that's quite true. A Solar won't learn everything. A diplomat who favours a bow might be less skilled with a blade than his bodyguards.
That doesn't mean that his potential is less, though. It's also not a good argument for limiting the areas of her development.

If a Solar chooses to invest Exp, however, they absolutely should match everyone in that field who's equally invested.

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Two things are going on here.

1/ I am saying "This is how I would like the mechanics to work"; and
2/ I am saying that I think that my preference is supported by the setting's flavor.

In part, you're arguing against my mechanical preferences by using the current 2e / 3e mechanics, which are not particularly relevant to a discussion of preferences. So I'm largely trying to put those aside. I don't think "It works like this" is a relevant argument to "it SHOULD work like that", nor do I see much productive coming from you on that front, so I'd prefer to not spend time on that.

In this specific case, I'd argue that the Solar might be able to best his soldiers (not fellow officers) one-on-one, but he would not actually make a better soldier than the Terrestrials. Which is to say, I'd argue that a Solar Captain with a platoon of Dragonbloods ought to be able to match or exceed a platoon of 100% Solars.

That's mischaracterizing my argument. Drastically, in fact.
To the point that it seems deliberate. Don't accuse me of failing to engage your point unless you can honestly say that you won't.

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I'm reading you as best I can, but I'll need you to meet me half way.

If something seems off, maybe instead of trying to legally poke holes in it, you could ask about the dissonance. Maybe even leave off the dismissive tone.

Mm. Or, perhaps, that two people can argue without one of them acting as if his inability to clarify his points was the fault of his opponent.

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I look forward to seeing you lead by example.

Would you kindly explain, rather than dodge the question?

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I asked you what you wanted explained, specifically, and you came back with what looks like an irrelevant quote. So uh. Not dodging. It's just that there's not actually an argument close to where you're trying to dig.

If you wish to critique my debating methods, make sure that yours are above reproach.

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Oh hell the fuck no. I'm going to aim for honest and earnest, and leave "above reproach" to fictional Mary-Sues.

I really hope you're not asserting in some back-handed way that YOU are above reproach. Confirm you're not asserting that and then we can continue.

 

[evildice]

I'd be more than willing to join a 3e game here.

I'm still not convinced that MA needs to be hacked. Each MA is based around more than punching things, it feels more like it's based around a character concept. Shining Point Into the Void and Ebon Shadow are two very different styles, and I find it almost incomprehensible that one character would learn both. They have such different methods and aims.

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I think you're right.

The way I see 3e Martial Arts is a bit like 2e Infernal charm trees: each embodies a concept and a practice, and they are not necessarily compatible with each other.

However, I do love me some Heretical charms, so an equivalent type of Charm for MA -- which expressly allows or evokes synergy from the dissonant styles and/or concepts -- might be cool.

(Let's call them "Mixed Marital Arts" Charms, that won't confuse anyone.)

 

[Stroth]

Being absent from the sky does not actually require a Stealth roll, just like a person being absent from a room / city / continent does not require a Stealth roll, so you're using a faulty premise here.

As an example: there is not a number of dice you could roll to find my post on page 10 of this thread, because there are currently zero posts by me on page 10 of this thread. That's not my epic Stealth skills at work.

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Where exactly do you think the sun is during night in Creation? Because it's still in the sky. There's no over the horizon or other side of the world. Creation is flat. The sun is still there at night, it's just hidden.

 

[evildice]

Where exactly do you think the sun is during night in Creation? Because it's still in the sky. There's no over the horizon or other side of the world. Creation is flat. The sun is still there at night, it's just hidden.

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- The gym.
- In a closet in Yu-Shan.
- Elsewhere.
- On a barge which traverses the river that flows across Lethe, being renewed just like the souls of the obedient dead, because Egyptian mythology is allowed to be cool too.
- Visiting the dreams of a different blessed child each night, saying compassionate words which will not be remembered directly but will inspire hope and heroism anyway.
- Behind the dome of the sky rather than in front of it.
- Under Creation rather than above it. (But not in the Underworld, of course, since that's not actually vertically displaced.)
- In Saturn's bedroom.

I mean c'mon. You know there is a dawn and a sunset every day, how did you think that would work if the sun is required to be in the sky at all times?

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Two things are going on here.

1/ I am saying "This is how I would like the mechanics to work"; and
2/ I am saying that I think that my preference is supported by the setting's flavor.

In part, you're arguing against my mechanical preferences by using the current 2e / 3e mechanics, which are not particularly relevant to a discussion of preferences. So I'm largely trying to put those aside. I don't think "It works like this" is a relevant argument to "it SHOULD work like that", nor do I see much productive coming from you on that front, so I'd prefer to not spend time on that.

In this specific case, I'd argue that the Solar might be able to best his soldiers (not fellow officers) one-on-one, but he would not actually make a better soldier than the Terrestrials. Which is to say, I'd argue that a Solar Captain with a platoon of Dragonbloods ought to be able to match or exceed a platoon of 100% Solars.

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You're cherry picking parts of the fluff, ignoring one of the themes of Exalted.
Exalted draws on epic myth for inspiration, and mythical lords and kings tend to be lords and kings by merit.

Achilles is the greatest of the Myrmidons, a warrior supreme. He could take the place of any of his men, and do their job better.
Robin o'the hood is a better archer than any man in England, and a woodsman through and through. He's not as big as Little John, and he doesn't cook like Friar Tuck, but he sure as the sunrise doesn't lead because he's got a fancy hat and a hand for paperwork.

The era of myth that Exalted is based on for the most part is one in which soldier and warrior were mostly interchangeable words.

I asked you what you wanted explained, specifically, and you came back with what looks like an irrelevant quote. So uh. Not dodging. It's just that there's not actually an argument close to where you're trying to dig.

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You posed, and I quote.

In a one-on-one fight, who should win? The Champion. That's what being a Champion is all about. If you go 1-vs-1 against a Lunar, all else being equal, you will lose.

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I provided a counterexample from mythology, which is the core inspiration for Exalted.
You accepted it as relevant, and posted

(emphasis added) Yep. The Solar is not strictly better than the Lunar. They're well matched.
That goes against the core design which you propose ("Solars are better at everything than everyone"). It's a support of my central balance tenet.
Sure, it would be even better for my argument if the Lunar-ish guy won the one-on-one, but I'll take the +1 point for it being evidence against your argument even if it's not simultaneously also positive support for my own.

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Why do you think a tie is the same as a win? How is this a support of your argument? How does it oppose mine?

I had previously posted, in the post that you were quoting

I'll point out that I'm not arguing that Solars must always be stronger than any other Exalt. I'm arguing that Solars should have staightforward power that works very well at what they apply it to, but isn't versatile.
A Solar Warrior should fight very well, a Solar Leader should lead very well, and a Solar Ninja should sneak very well. The limit on a Solar's compitance should be where they spend their Exp.

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I'll once more ask what windmill you're tilling at, because you don't seem to be arguing with me.

Oh hell the fuck no. I'm going to aim for honest and earnest, and leave "above reproach" to fictional Mary-Sues.

I really hope you're not asserting in some back-handed way that YOU are above reproach. Confirm you're not asserting that and then we can continue.

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It's a turn of phrase. Much like "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Don't criticise your opponents argument when you're giving yourself points for outmanoeuvring straw.

As an aside, you are aware that you just wrote that you're going to half-ass this? If that's the case, don't bother replying.

 

[UrsaTempest]

I would argue Solar doesn't make a better Soldier than DBs, if only because there are only 300 Solar(oid) and they are much more effective if they act as leader than simply a soldier.

Like, sure, Solar can become better Soldier than DBs, but why'd you put them in that position? That's a waste of resources. Make them into General, or Champion.

 

[evildice]

You're cherry picking parts of the fluff, ignoring one of the themes of Exalted.
Exalted draws on epic myth for inspiration, and mythical lords and kings tend to be lords and kings by merit.

Achilles is the greatest of the Myrmidons, a warrior supreme. He could take the place of any of his men, and do their job better.
Robin o'the hood is a better archer than any man in England, and a woodsman through and through. He's not as big as Little John, and he doesn't cook like Friar Tuck, but he sure as the sunrise doesn't lead because he's got a fancy hat and a hand for paperwork.

The era of myth that Exalted is based on for the most part is one in which soldier and warrior were mostly interchangeable words.

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Nah, if that were true then Melee and War would be the same skill. They're not. Leading a number of troops is already mechanically different than being one of them. I'm simply wanting that difference to be expressed across Exalt types as well as the skill system.

Why do you think a tie is the same as a win? How is this a support of your argument? How does it oppose mine?

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It's a contradiction of this:

See, he's the Unconquered Sun. If it's a thing, he does it better than anyone else.

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A Lunar matching a Solar means that being Solar doesn't make you "better than anyone else" at everything.

Your example directly contradicts your earlier assertion, and does not contradict mine. So I'm counting that as a win -- even though it would be better if it did directly support my proposal, your example undermining you while NOT undermining me is still a win.

I'll once more ask what windmill you're tilling at, because you don't seem to be arguing with me.

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I asked you to not be an ass about implying that disagreeing with you is a form of insanity, and yet here you are doing the same thing again.

You were chiding me for not citing when I'm the only one in this conversation to actually cite, and did so in the post about which you complained.

So uh. I'm starting to think you might not be arguing in good faith here.

It's a turn of phrase. Much like "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Don't criticise your opponents argument when you're giving yourself points for outmanoeuvring straw.

As an aside, you are aware that you just wrote that you're going to half-ass this? If that's the case, don't bother replying.

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Yeah, you're confirming the bad-faith, and upgrading it to active trolling.

"Go to hell" is also a turn of phrase, but that doesn't make it appropriate for civil discussion.

 

[evildice]

I would argue Solar doesn't make a better Soldier than DBs, if only because there are only 300 Solar(oid) and they are much more effective if they act as leader than simply a soldier.

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That SHOULD be the case, I totally agree.

Like, sure, Solar can become better Soldier than DBs, but why'd you put them in that position? That's a waste of resources. Make them into General, or Champion.

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Well, there was a historical situation where 300 unusually gifted soldiers did something rather impressive...

 

[Heaven Canceler]

Like, sure, Solar can become better Soldier than DBs, but why'd you put them in that position? That's a waste of resources. Make them into General, or Champion.

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I guess it should be a question of effort. The whole Point of Solars is that they can acchieve anything if they put their mind to it. But it should be much harder to overturn the biggest Point of a specific type of Exalted than just becoming the best in something the others are just good or average. Or at least that is what I feel evildice has in mind.

I mean, don't the Dragonborn get any bonuses to Group combat and fighting together with others that other Exaltations don't get? It is the whole Point of them that they are the armies and footsoldiers of Creation, right?

Edit: For example, stuff that makes them get better the more allies are present or some such. Or Sentai Style speeches and a combined technique by Shooting their elemental attacks together. That Kind of stuff.

 

[tehelgee]

On the topic of being the best... Solars will, without fail, triumph over any other Exalted( gods, demons, etc too) in their field of expertise. Sidereals and Lunars can compete in the same fields, but that doesn't mean they automatically beat out the Solar. It means their chances went from 0% to about 25%-30%. The Solar will win two or three times for every one they fail.

And even then, their chances remain at 0% if they try to take the Solar head-on. Sidereals, Lunars, and I'd guess Exigents and Liminals can only compete if they come at the Solar indirectly(Sidereals) or by changing the rules of engagement(Lunars and their shapeshifting).

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

I'm pretty new to the Exalted scene but it seems to me that:

Solars/Abyssals win the game by being really, really fucking good at winning. It doesn't matter what the game is, they win at it.

Lunars win by default since they're really, really fucking good at not losing. Lose? What's losing? I don't understand. Do you mean that time where you delay until you can win?

Which is semantics when written, but different in practice.

Siderals win by hacking the game around them. Which mean the anti-Sids win by using cheat codes. *Imagines the Matrix with the Agents as Sids and the Awake Humans as the Gemtinianals (whatever the Anti-Sidereals are supposed to be)*

DB win because their team is really, really good at the teamwork thing. I didn't have a witty remark for these guys, they're pretty awesome. Oh! They're the X-men and Xavier is a really shitty Sidereal leading them around be the nose, because none of the X-men are actually smart enough to think for themselves! Its like the blind leading the blind! They are really good at acting as a cohesive unit and synergizing powers... sometimes. (I'm not a fan of Charles Xavier, he really fails at the pro-human/mutant co-operation thing. Like having human staff (and legitimate teachers) at the X-mansion would be a huge step, but nooooooo super smart telepath can't figure that out.) DB are way better than that though.

Infernals say 'fuck your game, fuck your rules. I reject your reality and submit my own.' And then jump into a pile of neomah hookers and warp dust (Ahirman swung by the Demon City when he was looking for the Black Library.) But seriously, Infernals win by shattering the rules and inserting their own.

All Exaltations win. They just do it differently.

 

[Biigoh]

Raksha write self insert stories....

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

The Taken attempt to not lose by trapping elementals in little crystals and surgically implanting them in themselves to siphon magic out of them.
From that point, they either win by taking control of the flow of the essence and become pretty awesome by the standards of their people, or lose by dieing as the elemental forcibly floods their body with oil, lightning, steam, smoke, metal, or crystal, killing them gruesomely from within.

...I'll try to stop with the 2(.5)e homebrew talk.

 

[evildice]

The Taken attempt to not lose by trapping elementals in little crystals and surgically implanting them in themselves to siphon magic out of them.
From that point, they either win by taking control of the flow of the essence and become pretty awesome by the standards of their people, or lose by dieing as the elemental forcibly floods their body with oil, lightning, steam, smoke, metal, or crystal, killing them gruesomely from within.

...I'll try to stop with the 2(.5)e homebrew talk.

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That sounds like it could be a valid issue at the borders of Creation, too.

Barbarian tribesmen who lack Dragonblood support but have Raksha or Shadowlands antagonists nearby decide to try to bind themselves to (summoned / created) Elementals. They either become Godblood-level folk heroes, or they lose control and become a new antagonist.

Fun type of place for the PC Exalts to visit, for sure.

 

[Nervaqus987]

The Taken attempt to not lose by trapping elementals in little crystals and surgically implanting them in themselves to siphon magic out of them.
From that point, they either win by taking control of the flow of the essence and become pretty awesome by the standards of their people, or lose by dieing as the elemental forcibly floods their body with oil, lightning, steam, smoke, metal, or crystal, killing them gruesomely from within.

...I'll try to stop with the 2(.5)e homebrew talk.

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Oh right.

Masters of the Industrial Elements.

You know there's a homebrew Shard that incorporates them into Creation, along with Achemicals, to help set up a steampunk style Creation?