Feudal Quest

bastur2 · Mar 23, 2014

I believe that the best course of action, at this point, by the knowledge that we have of the situation would be to marry Dita, having Kat as awe one wife.

So what that she is our cousin? She brings a barony with her, the power of a goddess, if her mission is fruitful a reformed Rakasha...
She is the prime candidate in my mind, we just have to spend some actions effectively getting to know her and trayning her...

Doing this we will get a better standing politically, economically and be able to protect her.

This also allows us to keep Kat as a mistress/court wizard/mentor what wil help us to increase our magical power much more rapidly.

Etzy could be made to marry our brother, increasing the power of our family locally and giving us a more potent ally.

The truth is that we are not in a position to discard any possibilitie just because it cause some discomforts for our modern morals

Walkir · Mar 23, 2014

bastur2 said:
The truth is that we are not in a position to discard any possibilitie just because it cause some discomforts for our modern ideals.

ShaperV said:
Since I know someone is bound to ask, marrying a cousin isn't common in Borjeria but it is legal - it's the sort of thing families like yours are sometimes forced to resort to in order to retain possession of their holdings, but it's close enough that a lot of people aren't entirely comfortable with the idea. So in theory you could probably claim a barony by marrying either Chesna or Dita, and that does solve a problem for your family, but no one is going to be thrilled about it as a solution.

We have ingame reasons, and "avoid incest" is about the oldest taboo on the cave painting.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

bastur2 said:
The truth is that we are not in a position to discard any possibilitie just because it cause some discomforts for our modern ideals.

The truth is that it's also against Berjorian morals. While it's something that's sometimes done, it's only in extreme case and it's a show of weakness.

Furthermore, both Kat and Dita are firmly in the "we would prefer staying allied with Dominic", so marrying Dita, while being a direct road to a Barony, doesn't actually increase our alliances or our power but in fact just 'secure' it. It's not a bad thing, but it doesn't bring us more power at all.

A marriage with the Zarana would bring a new alliance to the table, for example, and an entirely new skillset (intrigue), and a marriage with Ezti will bring a new Barony, not just keeping one our family already have.

Then it comes the fact that marrying Dita will either mean moving to Verzi (we have a Barony, we should take care of it) which means we'll give up on almost every plot threads we have done currently, or else stay in Corzu and let the reason we married Dita (the barony) whither.

So, no, i don't think it's the best of ideas right now. I MUCH prefer making Dita inherit her Barony but securing her as a great ally long term, which would do much, much more for our and our family's power.

bastur2 · Mar 23, 2014

And, at the same time it is the surest way to protect her, keep the land in the family, increase our power without forcing us to lose acces to some resources (Kat).

Not to mention that carnal relationship is not a must have... As heirs also are not a problem... We could always reconize some of our future bastards.

To the family it would be sold as a political marriage, anything more will depend on later game occurrences, but it is a possibilitie and it is one of the better ones to increase our power, at this time

Walkir · Mar 23, 2014

You only marry a cousin if you have no alternative. Women willing to marry Dominic aren't exactly scarce, and that's ignoring any bad options (including Dita and Chesna, as far as I'm concerned).

Partners for Dita and Chesna are a bigger problem, but also not unsolvable. If you want a marriage alliance with Dominic and aren't willing to stick your daughter into his harem (probably everyone), and have an eligible son... He's got two cousins in dire need of a good husband and would appreciate this alliance to his family very much.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

bastur2 said:
And, at the same time it is the surest way to protect her, keep the land in the family, increase our power without forcing us to lose acces to some resources (Kat).

Explain why you think not marrying Dita means we will lost Kat, i am not understanding your train of logic.

It is not the surest way to protect her, either- when it comes to protection, there is no difference for her between marrying us and marrying someone loyal to the family. The problem is that she doesn't want to be forced into a marriage (gasp!) and is rightfully worried about what would happen to her if she married the wrong person.

When it comes down to it, you are just chosing the "let's not increase our power route".

Baldur2 said:
Not to mention that carnal relationship is not a must have... As heirs also are not a problem... We could always reconize some of our future bastards.

Not unless you want to lose the barony:

ShaperV said:
Quote from: Arkeus on March 20, 2014, 03:52:22 AM

2°) Would it be possible for Dita to officially adopt a child in the family- say, our second son, or whatever- so that even if she is constantly away crusading/etc there will be a clear line of succession for the barony for our Family?

If it was that easy Pavel and Baron Kiscun would have done it. Unfortunately the tradition is that blood heirs come before adopted children, so Dita's relatives would have a stronger claim in that case.

To the family it would be sold as a political marriage, anything more will depend on later game occurrences, but it is a possibilitie and it is one of the better ones to increase our power, at this time

It doesn't increase our power, and it's not only to our family we will have to sell it (it's probably going to be somewhat easy to sell to the family, mainly because it means they don't have to kill her and no one wants to be a kinslayer), it's to the kingdom. We don't want the kingdom to think the only way we had to secure our own barony was to have cousins marrying. This is a show of weakness on a political level just before a possible regency war.

Basically, it's a BAD political marriage.

Walkir · Mar 23, 2014

Arkeus said:
Basically, it's a BAD political marriage.

Jup, it's basically only one step from going full Tagaryen.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

Re: Noble Schemes Pt 2

So, because i am bored i am going to try to get a image of who Zarana is, in the hope of of making Dominic think about it (us talking about it means Dominic thinks about it too right ShaperV?) and to hopefulle create some discussion.

So, here are the hard facts that we know:

ShaperV said:
"First, Balzar. I'm not sure what you know about the family, but their intrigue skills are legendary. They been sitting on the fence for a long time, but it looks like they're finally willing to actually throw in with us if we give them the right incentive. They have a very professional military and useful strategic position, so getting them in our camp would be quite useful. I suppose I should also mention that the barons daughter is a stunning young lady, who is highly trained in the arts of intrigue. She might be a bit of a handful, but if you can handle her properly she could be quite an asset."

ShaperV said:
Quote from: Arkeus on Today at 12:38:30 AM

-Zaran is coming to our keep for this month right, we don't need to go meet her in Balzar?

Correct. Which implies that she's pretty interested in the possibility, come to think of it.

So, what we know of Zarana is that she is Stunning, that she is highly trained in intrigue and that she is probably opiniated. What we can infer is that she already knows of us, and something about us intrigues her. I am moderately hopeful that it's not that Dominic is a stud, as "She had spies telling her how pretty we are" is kinda boring and and shallow, and does not mesh that well with "highly trained in intrigue". It's not like she couldn't marry someone dumb and pretty and get a harem of pretty boys if that was her interest.

So, here are possible reasons for her to be eager marry us (i am going to assume that she is going to at least be interested in 2/3 of those reasons):

*We are of the Petran family and the second son of the heir. I am mentioning the second son because if she was only interested in the Petran family she might have been trying to get into contact with Boris instead, and not jump at the chance to meet us. So she possibly doesn't want to marry the actual heir of the heir, but find the spare to be a very good prospect (or maybe it's just that our personal qualities are so much better than Boris. I don't know, we know nothing of Boris sadly).

*We have been shown to be exceptionally respectful of women. Not in the sense of "we are chivalric", but in the sense of "We have been shown to plot directly with women regularly, and have not used this as a pretext to try to sleep with any of the women we have been having serious working relationship with (Atlaya, Kat, Dita, Chesna, Ezti, Lala): we actually have a working relationship with them, not a working relationship that serves solely for seduction.

*We are ridiculously skilled. It's quite possible that Zarana looks for a husband that's of good breeding stock for whatever reason, and we are certainly that.

*We have been eager to work with magic. We have at least two retainers with powerful magical abilities, and have worked with Chosen. Maybe Zarana is interested by magic and eager to have a husband who has such retainer (or maybe she has magic herself and know that she needs a certain kind of husband in order to practice freely).

*We have gone on adventures regularly. Maybe she likes the idea of a adventurer husband. Maybe she likes the idea of being a adventurer herself. Maybe she has plans on how to use a adventurer for her family.

So, my personal take on Zarana is that she had had an eye on us since she learned that a young lord had recruited that young Egyptian wizardess (maybe she was looking to do the same?). I believe she is Highly intelligent, maybe even more than Dominic, and that she has enough willpower to have trained in Wizardry herself: my guess is that her specialities are Scrying and Stealth. I believe she was looking for a husband who will know how to best use her talents, and not be too chicken about them.

fitzgerald · Mar 23, 2014

Suggestions for the Dita situation

1) Having the various Captains the Duke is eyeing come by Corzu for an introduction to Dita with the public reason being here for a hunt

Aka meet and greet and hopefully find someone who Dita can actually get along with

2) Find out the following
a) Dita actually was fully registered as her parents Heir ala Ezti
b) What the deal with this girl in India is about
c) The political and Practical implications of Ditas being a Priestess is made public

3) Find out which of the high ranking Kheris clergy is open to talking with Inovia

bastur2 · Mar 23, 2014

First, let me apologize for the delay…
Now, that taken care of and seeing as I finally am in my computer, allow me to expand on my arguments:

First, the act of marrying a cousin, if not all that great, genetically speaking, is not all that evil also. Or
Most countries allow for this kind of marriages, as long as there is some degree of separation from the bride and groom.
Not only that, this kind of marriage was stated to be, if not fully accepted, something that happen.
And if it is something not unheard of, it shouldn't create too much of a hassle to us politically or socially, after all, all the great families had to or may in the future have to resort to it to keep some land in the fold.

That said, our character is a building BODY mage, one that could, in time, improve and help to keep our offspring healthy.
Not to mention that Dita's own regenerative and partially angelic constitution could help prevent any problem with her offspring.

On the other hand, all my arguments are good for what we know at this point in time, as the meeting with Zarana could, and will, bring new options to the table.
For now, this is how I see our options, with all the drawbacks that they bring:

Kat (as a primary) : bring fort wealth, magical knowledge, openness for other relationships, but also brings enemy's, problems with the church and possible problems with our family (as it would imped some of their plots).
Chesna (as a primary, all but closed at this point in time): she brings a barony, with a possible county our ducal state in the holy land, weak willed, so probably we would be able to keep Kat as a secondary wife. On the drawback side, weak willed, so no great help for our efforts, we could be hoped in her father's schemes. A cousin, so our standing in the family eyes (no prement reason for this to happen) and to the society as a whole, would take a hit.
Ezti (as a primary): Brings a barony and the church help, but also brings a local enemy, monetary problem (her land is poor), the impossibility, because of her religious stance of having Kat, or any other, as a second wife.

Remembering that not having Kat as a second wife could lead to her going away, to look for a husband or a place of her own.

Zarana: nothing is know at this time, only that she could bring a political alliance, but will bring no land (we would depend on war to increase our fief's size). No knowledge of her stance on a a second wife is know at this point in time.

Dita: brings a barony, the power of a goddess, if her mission is fruitful a reformed Rakasha, the possibility of keeping Kat, and any other we could want in the future, has more actions and possibility to grow than any of the other options, but also brings demonic attacks, the need to help the chosen, she is our cousin, so our standing to the society will take a hit, but not to our family, as we can sell it as a way to help her and the family as a whole.

This is not all they bring, but I see as the primary points.
Now, some of you are confounding personal power with family power
And personal standing in the family with our personal standing in society and our family standing in the country .
In the personal power and standing, all the matches bring something, some only political or monetary (ie: Zarana - for now- and Kat), others, bring military, economic and political (Ezti, Dita, Chesna).
But only Ezti, Zarana and Kat bring any kind of new power to our family, be it in the form of lands, magic and wealth of alliances, the others, only help to keep our family power, without diminishing it.

As you can see, Dita is one of the better candidates, and with one year to work her, we can bring her to want it.
Marring her will help protect her and the chosen, not to mention that it guarantee that she will not be forced to marry a stranger, probably forced to have his child and them disposed of, protecting us also, of her scape attempts before the big day.

On the other hand, if you don't want to risk a child, with BODY magic it is not to difficult to have one of our bastards pass a blood test, as if he or she was Dita's child.

Not only that, but as I put before, it would allow us to try to marry Ezti to our brother (helping increase our family holdings and with that, our usefulness and political power) or, as someone else mentioned, to help her broke a deal with Rogatica.
For last, the fact that we would have to leave Corzu, at least part time, is not a problem, but an opportunity… we will have personal control of two fiefs… a barony and a small and impoverished one… And if we have to choose, the barony is the better one.

But, I repeat, this is my opinion with the information that we have at present time, it could change with Zarana action I the coming month.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

fitzgerald said:
Suggestions for the Dita situation

1) Having the various Captains the Duke is eyeing come by Corzu for an introduction to Dita with the public reason being here for a hunt

Aka meet and greet and hopefully find someone who Dita can actually get along with

2) Find out the following
a) Dita actually was fully registered as her parents Heir ala Ezti
b) What the deal with this girl in India is about
c) The political and Practical implications of Ditas being a Priestess is made public

3) Find out which of the high ranking Kheris clergy is open to talking with Inovia

Those would be good steps to make. I wonder if we could send a letter to our Dad Or Gavrilla about meeting the captains. While i do not believe the Captain solution will be the one we end up with, there is no reason to dismiss it out of hand. We'll have to talk to Dita about it first, of course, and train up her stealth or flesh magic her or invisibility her up so that she can spy on the captains and make her own opinion of them.

After all, i highly doubt she would be convinced of any of them being acceptable if she does any less.

Also, even if Dita ends up rejecting all the captains, showing our Grandad, Dad and Gavrilla that we are taking the issue seriously is important.

Adyen · Mar 23, 2014

Actually, people still haven't mentioned the biggest thing with Dita - She's going to leave, and unless we can somehow convince her that saving her friend isn't a mission from her Goddess, there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

Edit: I'm also starting to think that this is like the Chosen - she was linked by something she trusts, so she's got no protection against the link and her 'friend' is just using her.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

Adyen said:
Actually, people still haven't mentioned the biggest thing with Dita - She's going to leave, and unless we can somehow convince her that saving her friend isn't a mission from her Goddess, there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

We have mentioned it. The whole point of convincing her to marry someone or finding another solution is so that she can come back after leaving (and maybe that we come with her in her quest).

Convincing her not to leave might not be doable- the whole timeline of "18 years old" stink to me of "Tavi is going to be possessed by a demon on her 18th birthday, and if she does i am going to be possessed too".

I might be overly paranoid, though.

Graig · Mar 23, 2014

bastur2 said:
Ezti (as a primary): Brings a barony and the church help, but also brings a local enemy, monetary problem (her land is poor), the impossibility, because of her religious stance of having Kat, or any other, as a second wife.

Ezti only has Soul 1 (and Soul determines willpower). Dominic will eventually have at least Charm 5 (we can improve Charm with magic) and will further improve his Diplomacy skill. We should be able to eventually convince her of pretty much anything.

ShaperV · Mar 23, 2014

fitzgerald said:
Full scene boosts of Strength and Dexterity would be direcrly reseachable correct? As in we dont need a middle step

Correct.

fitzgerald said:
For a bath house what stat + skill level would be required

That's a difficulty 5 engineering project, so Kat will probably be there long before she finishes the projects you currently have lined up for her.

Arkeus said:
Explain why you think not marrying Dita means we will lost Kat, i am not understanding your train of logic.

I'm not sure if this is what he was getting at, but Katiana is beautiful, uninhibited, and clearly wants to jump your bones. That's more than enough to make any normal Borjerian wife see her as a threat even without adding wizardry, shared adventures and the possibility of seduction magic to the mix. Chesna is weak-willed enough to handle, but if you marry Ezti you should expect problems here.

Also, Kat is looking for a husband. If it becomes clear that it isn't going to be you she'll eventually give up and look elsewhere, and unless she decides to settle for one of your retainers that will eventually lead to her moving to someone else's fief.

Adyen said:
Urk. Why did we settle for the second one when we could have had Kat just make wards that does the same thing?

Kat could put detection wards around a static location like the castle, but she can't make an aura effect that moves with you as you travel.

Thomasfoolery said:
The combined unit idea sounds good, but how would that interact with training exactly?

Any permanent unit can be trained with a single action, even if it includes multiple types of troops.

Thomasfoolery said:
Also it occurs to me that Kat might be able to get her partial action upgraded to a full action if we assign her the boot camp training to get her a body point.

Might work. Mind you, Katiana doesn't have magical strength buffs and she isn't a 6' tall amazon, so it will take serious training for her to reach Body 1. That would pretty much be the limit of what's physically possible for her without magic.

Arkeus said:
@ShaperV: It's not said in the result post, but can it be assumed we agreed to have Gavrilla feed us Adventure lead? And when can we expect them to begin coming?

Fixed. Yes, I'd accidentally left that out of the update. Given travel times and the fact that she has to get back to the capital first, you can expect several options to arrive in late August - early October.

Arkeus said:
The truth is that it's also against Berjorian morals. While it's something that's sometimes done, it's only in extreme case and it's a show of weakness.

Correct. The incest taboo is significantly weaker than in most modern cultures, but it's still something that would be a bit embarassing and would make some people talk. If you were going Hero route it wouldn't be enough to matter, but if you're going Feudal Lord it will create a perception of weakness that you'll have to overcome.

Arkeus said:
So, because i am bored i am going to try to get a image of who Zarana is, in the hope of of making Dominic think about it (us talking about it means Dominic thinks about it too right ShaperV?)

Correct.

Arkeus said:
So, my personal take on Zarana is that she had had an eye on us since she learned that a young lord had recruited that young Egyptian wizardess (maybe she was looking to do the same?). I believe she is Highly intelligent, maybe even more than Dominic, and that she has enough willpower to have trained in Wizardry herself: my guess is that her specialities are Scrying and Stealth. I believe she was looking for a husband who will know how to best use her talents, and not be too chicken about them.

She's a lot more likely to have sorcery than wizardry, since there aren't any publicly-known institutions in Borjeria that train wizards. OTOH it's possibly that her family might have secretly collected some limited amount of wizardry lore, enough to train to level 1 or 2. If that's the case a change to be taught by someone like Kat would be an amazing benefit for both her and her family.

bastur2 said:
First, the act of marrying a cousin, if not all that great, genetically speaking, is not all that evil also.

Genetically speaking Dita probably isn't even human, let alone closely related to you. Her personal magic is all hereditary, after all, and there aren't any other blondes in your family.

Arkeus said:
On the other hand, if you don't want to risk a child, with BODY magic it is not to difficult to have one of our bastards pass a blood test, as if he or she was Dita's child.

Borjeria doesn't have any way of doing paternity testing, so that isn't a worry. The problem would just be producing someone you can plausibly claim is Dita's child without anyone giving the secret away.

fitzgerald said:
1) Having the various Captains the Duke is eyeing come by Corzu for an introduction to Dita with the public reason being here for a hunt

They live in Ikula, which is all the way on the other side of the Kingdom. Practicaly speaking you'd have to make a trip there to speak with your grandfather in person to get this started - you want your full diplomacy roll for that meeting, and making the trip is a gesture of respect that could be important.

fitzgerald said:
2) Find out the following
b) What the deal with this girl in India is about

At this point you think you can get her to tell you the whole story if you put in a minor action to talk to her about it this turn.

fitzgerald said:
c) The political and Practical implications of Ditas being a Priestess is made public

Typical peasant: "She's a witch! Burn her!"
Typical noble: "Oh god, the Petran girl is insane. Why haven't they done something about her?"

fitzgerald said:
3) Find out which of the high ranking Kheris clergy is open to talking with Inovia

Anyone that open-minded isn't going to get promoted past the level of village priest. The church of Khersis really doesn't like the Inovians, and would rather they all go die fighting evil somewhere far away.

-----

Someone had also complained that you don't really know anything about your brother, so I've expanded his entry in the Lore post a bit. Feel free to ask if you have any other questions about him - you grew up together, so obviously you know him quite well.

staplesdex2 · Mar 23, 2014

My opinion, we seriously need to keep Kat even if as a mistress. Her gifts and magic are too much of a boon for us.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

ShaperV said:
I'm not sure if this is what he was getting at, but Katiana is beautiful, uninhibited, and clearly wants to jump your bones. That's more than enough to make any normal Borjerian wife see her as a threat even without adding wizardry, shared adventures and the possibility of seduction magic to the mix. Chesna is weak-willed enough to handle, but if you marry Ezti you should expect problems here.

This is something that perplexes me a bit- it seems to be one of the most obvious examples of story trumping mechanics (which is totally fine), but i don't really get -why- they have those stats if that's the story about them. Unless i misunderstand things quite a bit, Chesna having Soul 2 should mean she is much more strong-willed than the average person, and at least decently more than Ezti.

Is this a case of "Chesna was brought up in a lavish environment by someone who never amounted to anything so she never learned to actually use her will" and "Ezti was brought up with responsibilities, so her weaker will was forged into 'i must obey my family and religion'"?

But at the same time, Ezti also seems to have her own mind on how to interpret her religion.... urgh.

Am i misunderstanding how Soul works?

EDIT:

So, looking at Boris.... He seems pretty much like a older Dominic that already got both of his untapped potential points and put them in Mind and Charm, and then proceeded to be on the road to Julius Ceasar v2.0

It does seem that he has no magic though, or at least he is keeping it quiet and isn't focusing on it. It seems more and more likely that Zarana is coming to us for our attitude toward magic/ magical coterie/expertise. Or she doesn't like that our brother has mistresses in every towns, but it's not like we don't have mistresses either so....

RE-EDIT:
It also brings to question how the hell did our Dad managed to have two such sons.

Graig · Mar 23, 2014

Arkeus said:
This is something that perplexes me a bit- it seems to be one of the most obvious examples of story trumping mechanics (which is totally fine), but i don't really get -why- they have those stats if that's the story about them. Unless i misunderstand things quite a bit, Chesna having Soul 2 should mean she is much more strong-willed than the average person, and at least decently more than Ezti.

2 is average. So Chesna has average willpower and Ezti has less than average willpower.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

Graig said:
2 is average. So Chesna has average willpower and Ezti has less than average willpower.

2 is average for a professional that focus on that attribute. So a professional Diplomat would have 2 charm 2 diplomacy, etc. 1 is "gifted but no training" or "training but not gifted", and O is "no training, no talent". 3 is exceptional, and usually implies years and years of focusing on a skill linked to that attributed for a very skilled individual (for example a knight).

Chesna has REALLY GOOD stats, just not potential Hero-tier ones.

Graig · Mar 23, 2014

Arkeus said:
2 is average for a professional that focus on that attribute. So a professional Diplomat would have 2 charm 2 diplomacy, etc. 1 is "gifted but no training" or "training but not gifted", and O is "no training, no talent". 3 is exceptional, and usually implies years and years of focusing on a skill linked to that attributed for a very skilled individual (for example a knight).

Chesna has REALLY GOOD stats, just not potential Hero-tier ones.

Where are you getting this from? The front page just says that 2 is average. Also if 0 is the average for an untrained person. Then what score would an untrained person with less than average talent have? We know that 0 is the minimum for humans.

The four stats are Body (physical ability), Mind (wit and wisdom), Soul (passion, willpower and magic) and Charm (charisma and social skills). Stats are very hard to change, requiring years of dedicated training or steady use over the course of many adventures. Even then they'll never change more than a point or two, so starting scores are very important here. Normal humans have stats in the 0-5 range, with 2 being average. Stats of 4 or more are very rare, indicating a genius or potential epic hero.

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

Graig said:
Where are you getting this from? The front page just says that 2 is average. Also if 0 is the average for an untrained person. Then what score would an untrained person with less than average talent have? We know that 0 is the minimum for humans.

I am getting this from:
*We have multiple people in our party- very gifted people that have stats with 0. It seems that for women O Body is average unless they are special, and Traian has 0 charm.
*Stats of 1 are rampants: Jaroslaw has 1 Charm, Bialis/Jaroslaw/Traian all have Soul 1. These people are not average, they are Elite.
*We have been told repeatedly that professional in a doctrine had 2attribute + 2Skill, and that something like 3/3 would push you in the 95th percentile. We have seen this with our men at arms for Body.

tl;dr: when we are told repeatedly that a man-at-arm with years of experience will on average have Body 2 and a diplomat have Charm 2, and are shown that the rest of their stats are much lower than their specialty, you can't say that 2 is average for someone untrained.

Edit: Annnd you were mostly right.

bastur2 · Mar 23, 2014

ShaperV said:
I'm not sure if this iser what he was getting at, but Katiana is beautiful, uninhibited, and clearly wants to jump your bones. That's more than enough to make any normal Borjerian wife see her as a threat even without adding wizardry, shared adventures and the possibility of seduction magic to the mix. Chesna is weak-willed enough to handle, but if you marry Ezti you should expect problems here.

Also, Kat is looking for a husband. If it becomes clear that it isn't going to be you she'll eventually give up and look elsewhere, and unless she decides to settle for one of your retainers that will eventually lead to her moving to someone else's fief.

Exactly, the way I see, for now, only Ditas rote allow us to keep Kat on the side, as Eztis wouldnt allow her easily, and Chesnas is almost closed.
Maybe Zaranas will bring something different, but until we get more information, I just dont want us to preemptively close a possible door.

ShaperV said:
Correct. The incest taboo is significantly weaker than in most modern cultures, but it's still something that would be a bit embarassing and would make some people talk. If you were going Hero route it wouldn't be enough to matter, but if you're going Feudal Lord it will create a perception of weakness that you'll have to overcome.

But them, we would have at least a Wizard level 5 (Kat), a Priestess of Inovia (Dita), a barony an our personal small fief to help change their perception

ShaperV · Mar 23, 2014

Average stats for Borjerian nobles are:

Male - Body 2, Mind 2, Soul 1, Charm 2
Female - Body 0, Mind 2, Soul 1, Charm 2

Peasants will usually have a -1 to either Mind or Charm, if not both. Older men or those with sedentary professions will usually have Body 1 instead of 2.

I'm primarily using Soul as a measure of magical ability and resistance to magical influence, so humans have low numbers there.

When it comes to straight persuasion attempts Chesna has a higher resistance then Ezti unless her True Faith is triggered, in which case Ezti becomes very difficult to affect. But the reason I say Chesna is more easily handled than Ezti has to do with personality rather than game mechanics.

Chesna is experimental, open-minded, a bit of a thrill-seeker and generally ruled by her emotions. She doesn't really have a lot of strong convictions, and she enjoys doing scandalous things just for the thrill of being scandalous. So there are lots of ways you could subtly influence her to be accepting of having Kat around, and the main obstacle would just be her instinctive jealousy. If you handle her right it will never matter that she has higher resistance to influence because she'll never be trying to resist - she'll be having too much fun with whatever deliciously scandalous rationalization you've given her.

Ezti is dogmatic, determined, controlled and dedicated to her principles and duty. She and Kat are pretty much polar opposites, and while Ezti is more tolerant of strangeness than most Borjerians Kat is going to be way out of her comfort zone. So you'd find yourself needed to actually make serious persuasion rolls on her, and you'd have to be careful not to trigger her True Faith defense. With her low Soul this is might still be doable, especially if you keep investing in social skills, but making it stick in the long run and making her happy with it would be tricky.

Walkir · Mar 23, 2014

ShaperV said:
Ezti is dogmatic, determined, controlled and dedicated to her principles and duty. She and Kat are pretty much polar opposites, and while Ezti is more tolerant of strangeness than most Borjerians Kat is going to be way out of her comfort zone. So you'd find yourself needed to actually make serious persuasion rolls on her, and you'd have to be careful not to trigger her True Faith defense. With her low Soul this is might still be doable, especially if you keep investing in social skills, but making it stick in the long run and making her happy with it would be tricky.

Thanks for the info, although that last bit just sounds like it could relatively easily be circumvented by the Harem Benediction skill/charm/spell/whatever it is.

Edit: typo

Arkeus · Mar 23, 2014

Walkir said:
Thanks for the info, although that last bit just sounds like it could relatively easily be circumvented by the Harem Benediction skill/charm/spell/whatever it is.

If we want to marry Ezti, it seems much smarter to find someone else Kat could be interested in, and have them both be retainers- hopefully in our coterie if he is a wizard/sorcerer too.

Marrying Ezti is the most 'Berjorian' option we have seen yet, and her closeness with the church will bring us much boons and political clout, so destroying that clout by doing too many anti-Berjorian things seems a bit of a waste.

ShaperV said:
According to Kat, Inovia isn't worshipped in Egypt at all. She's known to scholars as an elven goddess of valorous womanhood, or something along those lines - elven culture is so complex it would take more than a human lifetime of study to really understand it. But while elves are strange and alien people, they're generally considered inscrutabe and wise rather than crazy.

In her personal opinion Inovia herself is probably quite sane, The stress of such an intense empowerment effect probably does warp the minds of her Chosen a bit, but she thinks cavalierly dismissing them as 'crazy' the way the Khersian church does is the height of arrogance. As she puts it, "an Oracle who's a bit unhinged by the intensity of her own visions is someone you should listen to carefully, not dismiss out of hand."

Just realized that this means those are definitely NOT TMU Elves.

staplesdex2 · Mar 23, 2014

Still of the opinion of choosing Kat for her stats. That and also building that harem. So passing those social checks with Ezti is what I'll vote for.

Walkir · Mar 23, 2014

Arkeus said:
If we want to marry Ezti, it seems much smarter to find someone else Kat could be interested in, and have them both be retainers- hopefully in our coterie if he is a wizard/sorcerer too.

Marrying Ezti is the most 'Berjorian' option we have seen yet, and her closeness with the church will bring us much boons and political clout, so destroying that clout by doing too many anti-Berjorian things seems a bit of a waste.

Let's have a look at Zarana first, anyway.

staplesdex2 said:
Still of the opinion of choosing Kat for her stats. That and also building that harem. So passing those social checks with Ezti is what I'll vote for.

She already agreed to becoming a second wife or whatever the term is.

fitzgerald · Mar 23, 2014

Dominic

Major actions
1) Hunt threat: Beastmen
2) Meet with Zarana, court her, learn as much as possible about her and her Barony. If you think it's safe, find an intrigue to play with her.
3) Research more sophisticated healing

Dita
1) Swordsmanship 4/4
2) Hunt threat: Beastmen

Kat
1) Finish Granary
2) Hunt threat: Beastmen.

Sir Bialis
1) Hunt threat: Beatsmen

Jaroslaw
1) 50 Hunt threat: Beatsmen, 10 Garrison

Traian
1) Purchase transports necessary for the granary project, Begin planning road repair if he has the time.

Men at arms
1st Corzu Foot - 5 men at arms, 20 spearmen, 15 archers: Hunt Beastmen
2nd Corzu Foot - 5 men at arms, 20 spearmen, 15 archers: Hunt Beastmen
Corzu Garrison - 5 men at arms, 20 spearment, 10 archers: Garrison

Minor Actions
1) Talk to Dita about Tavi
2)Call up Ditrik to help hunt the Beastmen
3)Analyze Dita's magic while she is doing various things, trying to ascertain how much of her Faerie gifts work like the Chosen's, and whether she could learn to channel them through mediation and visualization like the Chosen could.
4) Do the same with Kat if you have the time. While her mother being a Efreet might just be bravado, it might not. Likewise, bring up the idea of a tough physical regimen. A Healthy Mind lives in a Healthy Body, after all.
5) Write a letter to Boris inviting him to visit Corzu

Adyen · Mar 23, 2014

The church of Khersis really doesn't like the Inovians, and would rather they all go die fighting evil somewhere far away.

Ok, so if we ever declare that Dita was a priestess of Inovia, we're going to have the church on our heads as well. Good to know.

Actually, we might want to take the rep hit and marry Dita anyways, but help her with her quest in India and send her away in the later parts of the crusade, and then marry Kat instead. Biggest gain in power (a barony and magical power bonus) while taking minimal losses (the rep hit will likely fade as people realize that we're only 'married' to Dita to retain the land).

Course, we might get some people angry at us, but frienmies.

drake_azathoth · Mar 23, 2014

If we're actually going to stay a Feudal Lord, I am HOPING Zarana is a good bet. Dita and Chesna are our cousins. Let's... Just not go there. Getting a barony through marriage strikes me as pointless anyway- the issue isn't having it, it's having the money and troops to really defend it. Ezti is a good prospect, there's no arguing that, but her True Faith is a huge drawback as far as I'm concerned. She has skills, but they all largely echo our own and have little application to administering a barony beyond 'beat face'.

Then we've got Zarana. We know she's 'lively', and that her family has a reputation for intrigue. Little else at this time, although apparently an alliance with her family could be a big turning point for all our issues. I very much suspect she has some personal skills that are more oriented toward actually dealing with subtler issues we face, and Nikolai and Baron Rogatica both would be better dealt with using some subtlety. I'm not sure what her views on the church of Inovia or other women are, but she's unlikely to be too religious and monogamy is something we can cope with if we have to.

Speaking of... If we're going to keep one mistress, make it Katiana. She's a godsend, pretty much, and I'd actually consider her something of a marriage prospect all on her own. She actually HAS merchant skills, which is nice, and her Soul and Wizardry are top notch.

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