I will become God-Harem King of the World! [Highschool DxD/Exalted] (CLOSED)

[iamnuff]

Let's not be so free with the UMI with people just doing there jobs and looking out for our girls future.

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it's basic "forget you saw this" mojo, not brainwashing.

come on, do we have to have this discussion every single time we even think about using social charms? (this one isn't even a charm! it's the same spell the devils use to make the muggles forget seeing shit, basic masquerade stuff.)

also, we seriously need to move somewhere bigger.

we already have two girls living in Issie's house, if he's going to have ruby and yang (who barely know him, so far, and probably have their own place) then he's definately going to want to move out of his perants house.


so....

any ideas on how to get a house/appartment or the money for one?

I mean, we could probably just use social charms and hypnosis on a landlord, make him think we paid him, but it feels kinda shady.

 

[Walkir]

Well. with our stats he would be good at selling used cars things... Possibly bartender and such as well, but IIRC he's too young for that,

 

[iamnuff]

eh, a regular job would take up way too much time.

we already have school and our training. even without sleeping, it's still too much.

some way to exploit our powers for quick money.

something we don't need to do often...

can we rig gambling somehow? or create gold?

can Solar's transmute stuff?

if we could make gold, then we could sell it at those "cash4gold" places, (pretty sure you can do that via mail, so our age would never come up) or just at a pawnshop.

hmm.

Forget about solar stuff, could we Use boosted Gear to cheat at horse-racing?

make a bet on someone at 50-1 odds, then slowly start gathering boosts, then lend out power to our horse towards the end?

even just a 2X boost would be enough to decide most races, right?

we just need to convince the betting bookies that we are over 18 (social charms go!).

obviously, we would need to actually be at the racetrack, not just watching it on TV.

or could we use boosted gear to rig other betting things?

also, can we trigger BG on one arm, instead of both? that should make it easier to hide, with a big coat or something.

if nothing else, we could hire ourselves out to haggle for people.

doing stuff like using social charms to get them the best deal on a car or something? then taking a percentage of the money saved?

No idea how to set that up though.

we'd totally need more charisma for that though.

 

[Mu-Sensei]

We could sell Fertility and Anti-Pregnancy Charms, if we convince Tomofuri to make them for us. He'd certainly like the boost in faith. Actually we could live at his temple too, depending on how the negotiations go.

"Welcome to the temple of Fertility, where all the miko's are sexy, and... Hey, they belong to me, hands off!!!"

...

Issei's friends cried as soon as he entered the classroom. "Poor, poor Issei! You'll never know a girls touch! To think your parents would be so evil as to send you to priesthood!! Worst of all, they also deprived the world from such beauties like Asia and Mittelt!"

Issei bliked twice, then laughed. "Silly, you two. I'm a priest, true, but I'm a piest to a god of fertility! 'Be fruitful and multiply!' and all of that! of course I'd not dare take a chastity vow!"

 

[Larekko12]

it's basic "forget you saw this" mojo, not brainwashing.

come on, do we have to have this discussion every single time we even think about using social charms? (this one isn't even a charm! it's the same spell the devils use to make the muggles forget seeing shit, basic masquerade stuff.)

also, we seriously need to move somewhere bigger.

we already have two girls living in Issie's house, if he's going to have ruby and yang (who barely know him, so far, and probably have their own place) then he's definately going to want to move out of his perants house.


so....

any ideas on how to get a house/appartment or the money for one?

I mean, we could probably just use social charms and hypnosis on a landlord, make him think we paid him, but it feels kinda shady.

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???


Eh no. The Hypnosis. That's UMI and not NMI.


I'm perfectly okay with spinning some bullshit with 1st pres and IRSS to say there part of our work study and we're responsible for them and we will make sure they take care of their education.

I'm not really okay with being causual with Obliviation with people trying to do there jobs and help you and neither should Issei be so.

 

[Smuthunter]

The fallen angels were weak enough that Rias and his peerage took them down without breaking a sweat . Also , Issei's holy attack was so effective again Raiser mostly because of the element of surprise . In this case , holy attacks from the pawns are expected and will be countered.

As for a good battle strategy , that is unlikely . Personality-wise , Rias may be one of the best masters Reincarnated Devils may hope for , but as a battle leader , she just sucks .

In the LN , Rias' peerage went into the match without any sort of coherent strategy except for 'Defeat Raiser' . They just bum-rushed the enemy for the most part , and Issei covered everyone's slack for the most part .

Rias herself did not contribute anything worthwhile , and actually hindered her peerage to an extent by keeping both Asia and the Phoenix Tears with her , while her team could have really used the extra healing . Add to that she did not have any specific counter in mind for Raiser's regenerative powers , of which she was aware beforehand

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Not true actually. Rias did go over a plan regarding the positioning of her pieces. One of her main concerns was keeping Raiser's pawns from reaching the club house because then they'd be able to promote to queen. She dispatched her pieces to cover all possible approaches to the club house (including placing traps in the forest) while also trying to secure a route to Raiser's base so that Issei could promote.

Because the pieces were spread out at first, it wouldn't have been a good idea to have Asia out in the field given that she had no ability to defend herself. Both Koneko and Kiba wound up getting taken out by surprise attacks from Raiser's queen so this seems like a wise decision. Ideally, once Raiser's pawns were out of the picture Asia and Rias could have moved up to support Kiba and Issei, but Raiser started playing mind games with Rias in the middle of the fight and she impulsively charged out to face him one-on-one. That was her only real mistake in that fight. Well, that and not giving Akeno or Issei the phoenix tears.

 

[iamnuff]

???


Eh no. The Hypnosis. That's UMI and not NMI.


I'm perfectly okay with spinning some bullshit with 1st pres and IRSS to say there part of our work study and we're responsible for them and we will make sure they take care of their education.

I'm not really okay with being causual with Obliviation with people trying to do there jobs and help you and neither should Issei be so.

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its not a UNI or NMI.

it's not from exalted at all.

It's a basic "nothing is wrong" spell, commonly used by supernatural beings to uphold the masquerade.

please don't turn this into one of those "waaah, the obliviators are mind-rapists, they should just tell everyone about magic" idiotic things from the Harry potter fandom.

it has no long term effects, (unless grossly misused) and will almost certainly be necessary for us to use at atleast one point, to keep the normal people away from the supernatural.

if you still can't bear the thought of using it, then i suggest you get over it quickly. it's a staple trope of almost all supernatural stories. (harry potter/bleach/DxD/Negima/FSN/ect ect)

sure, i can accept not using it on people just to get what we want (like screwing with a landlord), but if we need to work around the mundane authorities, (like the police) then we ARE going to have to use it.

 

[Mu-Sensei]

if you still can't bear the thought of using it, then i suggest you get over it quickly. it's a staple trope of almost all supernatural stories. (harry potter/bleach/DxD/Negima/ect)

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[Joking] Except that in Negima they tend to erase Clothing, not memories... Still, if you get stripped in public, you'd surely focus on that for shame (or pleasure, some people are weird like that) and not on magic itself, so it works. [/Joking]

 

[Robotninja]

I hate people who consider UMI Charms as mindrape. Zenith caste are holy priests, not mind rapists.

 

[Smuthunter]

While it isn't from Exalted, the effects of the hypnosis spell are probably similar enough to some kinds of social charms that it can be considered the same as UMI.

That said, this is not a reason to freak out. There's nothing wrong with a little mind control when it's used for benign purposes. There's a long long long distance on the morality scale between "be my sex slave" and "these aren't the droids you're looking for."

 

[iamnuff]

While it isn't from Exalted, the effects of the hypnosis spell are probably similar enough to some kinds of social charms that it can be considered the same as UMI.

That said, this is not a reason to freak out. There's nothing wrong with a little mind control when it's used for benign purposes. There's a long long long distance on the morality scale between "be my sex slave" and "these aren't the droids you're looking for."

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I can understand the attitude to mind control, but this obviously ISN'T even mind control.
it's more along the lines of a "suggestion" spell, than anything else.

"hey, this isn't a problem, don't worry about it, just go back to what you were doing" is completely different to "YOUR MIND BELONGS TO ZOD!"

also, i said Negima HAD them, i never said that it actually WORKED.

 

[Smuthunter]

is it even mind control? i thought it was more along the lines of a "suggestion spell?

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It's an enforced suggestion though. There's a difference in reaction between just saying something and saying it with a suggestion spell backing you up. Erasing or altering a person's memories is the same sort of effect as Golden Years Tarnished Black, although obviously not with the same intent.

 

[Larekko12]

I hate people who consider UMI Charms as mindrape. Zenith caste are holy priests, not mind rapists.

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Hahaahahaha.
Oh god that's funny.

Holy and Creature of Darkness is a fucking political statement in Exalted. They confer no inherent moral authority or moral inferiority.

A Demon of Malfeas can be a patron saint of children and the kindest soul in existance and a Solar can be the worlds cruelest Tyrant enforcing his rule through geas's and the might of his magicks in a nation that make Menzoberran look functional.

I've heard these word in damn near every exalted quest I've been in often times from you. Eat them accept them.


NMI even supported by supernatural powers ain't mind rape it may be bullying but it ain't mind rape I can accept that.


UMI is mindrape. The Books say so. The Devs Say so. The Devs Say the made distinction so that there would be that line in the sand to try to silence complaints.

And I said I don't want Issei to get easy and free with the casual mindrape of truant officers looking out for our girls. Especially when that's both unnecessary and overkill when we can simply spin bullshit when no magic shit has hit the fan.

That's what the presence excellency is for.

 

[Brandark]

Not true actually. Rias did go over a plan regarding the positioning of her pieces. One of her main concerns was keeping Raiser's pawns from reaching the club house because then they'd be able to promote to queen. She dispatched her pieces to cover all possible approaches to the club house (including placing traps in the forest) while also trying to secure a route to Raiser's base so that Issei could promote.

Because the pieces were spread out at first, it wouldn't have been a good idea to have Asia out in the field given that she had no ability to defend herself. Both Koneko and Kiba wound up getting taken out by surprise attacks from Raiser's queen so this seems like a wise decision. Ideally, once Raiser's pawns were out of the picture Asia and Rias could have moved up to support Kiba and Issei, but Raiser started playing mind games with Rias in the middle of the fight and she impulsively charged out to face him one-on-one. That was her only real mistake in that fight. Well, that and not giving Akeno or Issei the phoenix tears.

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Okay , I overlooked that one . She did have a plan for positioning the pieces , I will give you that . Rest of the points still stand though .

No real game plan for taking Raiser down , regeneration notwithstanding .
No contingency plan in case things go south .
Putting too much pressure on Issei , who is a greenhorn at using both his sacred gear and demonic power , after a small period of training .
Putting no effort in training herself or the experienced members of the squad.(complacency? overconfidence?)
her own lacklustre performance .

Thing is , she does have some talented people in her squad . More talented than her , even . If she utilizes them correctly she can win , with a big emphasis on 'if' . Given her canon actions , unlikely . But I am not ruling it out completely . It would be quite boring if the Raiser arc concludes that way though . I am waiting for the destined meeting between Issei's fist and Raiser's face .

On the hypnosis issue , in this instance , it's nothing to freak out over , and very far from crossing the moral event horizon . Most settings that have a secret supernatural aspect also have something like this in some form or other . Still , Issei should use it sparingly . Getting too comfortable just might start the ride down the slippery slope . Better safe than sorry , after all .

 

[Mu-Sensei]

To think all of this started because a little joke of mine. :'(

I feel bad.

 

[Heaven Canceler]

I hate people who consider UMI Charms as mindrape. Zenith caste are holy priests, not mind rapists.

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Eh.... it doesn't really matter whether you are a holy priest or follow the orders of a god. Mind control is mind control. You can use it for non-evil things, but there is no fundamental difference on the mechanics Level from a priest going and manipulating the masses into believing him and a tyrant king telling his subjects what to do.

About the whole memory erasing thing... I don't like it, I will be honest, but so long as we are careful and make sure that we don't do something that could have Long term consequences and ruin someone's life I can live with it. It is erasing a person in a way, (and making another Person) but in that case, anyone with amnesia is not actually the same Person as before, but someone else. Which some would say to be the truth, but that is up to debate really. There are problems with erasing memories though. What of written/computer proof? The police write stuff on the PCs and on paper. I mean, it was handwaved with Harry Potter, but how does it work in DxD? There has to be some physical "all proof of this person's existence/actions vanishes" spell/technique, or someone would have noticed that this Yuuma Girl is on the Student list or something like that. (THat is, if she was an actual Student in the first place of course. Even then, it is only a question of time until something goes wrong.)

I think the main reason People react negatively to the Memory erase Thing is this: Would you like if someone screwed with your mind without permission? Casually, just because you walked into some place or saw someone doing something? I think that idea would be very terrifying. And Harry Potter wizards for example are incredibly casual and uncaring of the whole Thing. Their lack of knowledge of Technology and modern Facts may also Kind of screw with the process if they try to insert or Change memories in a way that don't make sense to us.

 

[Smuthunter]

UMI is mindrape. The Books say so. The Devs Say so. The Devs Say the made distinction so that there would be that line in the sand to try to silence complaints.

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No, the books say it's mind control. Not mind rape. They do not use such blatantly loaded terms which are designed to label an entire category of charms as being automatically evil. I would appreciate it if you didn't do so either.

About the whole memory erasing thing... I don't like it, I will be honest, but so long as we are careful and make sure that we don't do something that could have Long term consequences and ruin someone's life I can live with it. It is erasing a person in a way, (and making another Person)

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Eh, I'm going to disagree on this. People forget things all the time. My mom pointed out to me just the other day that I completely forgot my dad had a big blue truck before the one he has now, and that was only a few years ago. People change over the course of their lives too, so giving a person an epiphany that changes their life isn't noticeably different from them having it on their own in terms of how it changes them. You don't really "kill" a person in any mental sense until you sever continuity of consciousness.

 

[iamnuff]

UMI is mindrape. The Books say so. The Devs Say so. The Devs Say the made distinction so that there would be that line in the sand to try to silence complaints.

And I said I don't want Issei to get easy and free with the casual mindrape of truant officers looking out for our girls. Especially when that's both unnecessary and overkill when we can simply spin bullshit when no magic shit has hit the fan.

That's what the presence excellency is for.

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you keep throwing around the phrase "unnatural mental efffect" like you think this is a charm.

hint: it's not.

[Hypnosis] A spell to plant a suggestion into a person's mind. Eyes' contact is needed. A skill commonly used by Devils to erase memories and make people overlook abnormal events. Each suggestion costs a number of motes equal to half the target's Willpower rounded down. Orders that contradict the survival instincts of the target, his Motivation, Virtue and Intimacies have a greater chance of the target shrugging the Hypnosis off. This skill is usable only against normal, not Heroic, mortals.

it's not "mind rape" it's minor memory modification to make people overlook the supernatural.

No, the books say it's mind control. Not mind rape. They do not use such blatantly loaded terms which are designed to label an entire category of charms as being automatically evil. I would appreciate it if you didn't do so either.

Eh, I'm going to disagree on this. People forget things all the time. My mom pointed out to me just the other day that I completely forgot my dad had a big blue truck before the one he has now, and that was only a few years ago. People change over the course of their lives too, so giving a person an epiphany that changes their life isn't noticeably different from them having it on their own in terms of how it changes them. You don't really "kill" a person in any mental sense until you sever continuity of consciousness.

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totally agree. losing a five minute chunk of memory is a tiny thing, and losing only the memories of a single person (who you have only known for a couple of minutes and aren't especially close to) is nothing.

you meet and forget strangers every single day.

repeatedly mind-wiping the same person over and over until they suffer brain damage (like in Harry potter) is terrible.
using it to get passed the mundane authorities (or to make them forget something that is impossible for you to explain) is totally reasonable.


Personally, i have to wonder how you think we would deal with the police or truency officers with just our social powers. we can't just talk our way out of that, it's going to take paperwork, which we don't have/can't fill or at-least someone who can pretend to be a parent (not us, because we are too young) unless we manage to complete spin a lie that instantly gets us out of their with no questions asked (which would probably take an UMI)

Besides, we already punched someone till they had brain-damage, and issie didn't really seem bothered by the fact.
He doesn't seem the sort to get hung up on the philosophy of "does interrupting someone's thought process mean you killed them and replaced them with a clone" or whatever bullshit.

besides, this is a setting with souls, obviously minor amounts of memory modification wouldn't be enough to erase a person's consciousness and replace it with another.

 

[Brandark]

This is the Great Martial Arts Debate all over again .

 

[Heaven Canceler]

Eh, I'm going to disagree on this. People forget things all the time. My mom pointed out to me just the other day that I completely forgot my dad had a big blue truck before the one he has now, and that was only a few years ago. People change over the course of their lives too, so giving a person an epiphany that changes their life isn't noticeably different from them having it on their own in terms of how it changes them. You don't really "kill" a person in any mental sense until you sever continuity of consciousness.

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Yes, but you are not the same person as three years ago. Such change could be considered a death and birth, or development depending on opinion. In this case though, it is natural and you cannot really live without changing in that way. Yet, taking away parts of a person's life either through accident or on purpose in sufficient amount would kill the "Person that exists currently". In ten minutes, I won't be quite the same person as I am right now. This difference is minimal and won't give any visible change to myself. But what about a bigger amount?

Of course for a real death, it depends on the amount and how important something was to the person. Take away a few minutes and it would not make much of a difference, take away a few years or some important parts of the mind and you won't recognize the Person any longer.

This is all very hard to explain for me, but if you compare Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter from before and after having the majority of his life erased, don't you think that the Person he was formerly is dead? What if it was only a few years? What if it was random memories from a span of 10 or 20 years?

Edit: As said before, I am not against it when used responsibly. Just don't use it too casually.

 

[iamnuff]

This is the Great Martial Arts Debate all over again .

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no, the marital arts was over a vote, this is over a SUGGESTED encounter, that will probably never happen.

also, this is about subjective morality, so theres no right answer.

isn't it great?

This is all very hard to explain for me, but if you compare Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter from before and after having the majority of his life erased, don't you think that the Person he was formerly is dead?

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so there's no difference between removing the memories of meeting a single person, and removing everything for the last 20-30 years?

no.

one is a huge mind-wipe, to the point where it leaves the target an empty shell, the other is a jedi-mind trick.


I agree about not using it casually though, i'd only suggest using it for things we can't talk our way out of (like problems with the police, who generally don't let you wonder off just because you spewed a couple of platitudes at them)

 

[Heaven Canceler]

so there's no difference between removing the memories of meeting a single person, and removing everything for the last 20-30 years?

no.

one is a huge mind-wipe, to the point where it leaves the target an empty shell, the other is a jedi-mind trick.


I agree about not using it casually though, i'd only suggest using it for things we can't talk our way out of (like problems with the police, who generally don't let you wonder off just because you spewed a couple of platitudes at them)

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I did say that the amount erased has an importance in my post. The question is, where is the Limit where a Person can still do it without theoretically killing someone? You said that the Person would still be "alive" so Long as you don't, what was the term you used, oh yes: "you sever continuity of consciousness" Where and when is consciousness? A quarter of your life, your whole life, 10 %, the last month, the last year, the last week? Does it matter whether you have fallen in love during that week?

Though yeah, I am not bothered with a few minutes or seconds, though I don't necessarily "like" it.

 

[Brandark]

no, the marital arts was over a vote, this is over a SUGGESTED encounter, that will probably never happen.

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Marital arts is a nice typo . Considering the nature of our protagonist , much more relevant to his interests . Can we talk about marital arts instead? And no , this is totally not a blatant attempt to change the subject .

 

[Smuthunter]

Marital arts is a nice typo . Considering the nature of our protagonist , much more relevant to his interests . Can we talk about marital arts instead? And no , this is totally not a blatant attempt to change the subject.

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Glorious Solar Penis is go for launch!

 

[Larekko12]

you keep throwing around the phrase "unnatural mental efffect" like you think this is a charm.

hint: it's not.

[Hypnosis] A spell to plant a suggestion into a person's mind. Eyes' contact is needed. A skill commonly used by Devils to erase memories and make people overlook abnormal events. Each suggestion costs a number of motes equal to half the target's Willpower rounded down. Orders that contradict the survival instincts of the target, his Motivation, Virtue and Intimacies have a greater chance of the target shrugging the Hypnosis off. This skill is usable only against normal, not Heroic, mortals.

it's not "mind rape" it's minor memory modification to make people overlook the supernatural.

totally agree. losing a five minute chunk of memory is a tiny thing, and losing only the memories of a single person (who you have only known for a couple of minutes and aren't especially close to) is nothing.

you meet and forget strangers every single day.

repeatedly mind-wiping the same person over and over until they suffer brain damage (like in Harry potter) is terrible.
using it to get passed the mundane authorities (or to make them forget something that is impossible for you to explain) is totally reasonable.

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You keep throwing around this rebuttal despite it obviously being absolutely retarded and wrong headed.

I mean any form of Mind control( aka Mindrape aka Compulsion aka unwilling Geasses aka Memory erasure aka the things Prof x does to make you ignore him) is UMI. Unnatural mental influence. Mental effect extending beyond supernal and wrenching effort and or outright magic to throw.

It doesn't suddenly not become UMI cause it's not a fucking charm in fucking Exalted.

Personally, i have to wonder how you think we would deal with the police or truency officers with just our social powers. we can't just talk our way out of that, it's going to take paperwork, which we don't have/can't fill or at-least someone who can pretend to be a parent (not us, because we are too young) unless we manage to complete spin a lie that instantly gets us out of their with no questions asked (which would probably take an UMI)

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Making them forget us lighting up like the noon day sun and break a dragon over our knees is fine.

Dropping suggestions for things we can fix with a bit of mortal footwork with no one in danger is not.

We can charm the cop in question.

We can ask our own parents to help.

We can do what people do to talk there way out of a ticket.

We're personable. Then if nothing else work you can drag out.

Besides, we already punched someone till they had brain-damage, and issie didn't really seem bothered by the fact.
He doesn't seem the sort to get hung up on the philosophy of "does interrupting someone's thought process mean you killed them and replaced them with a clone" or whatever bullshit.

besides, this is a setting with souls, obviously minor amounts of memory modification wouldn't be enough to erase a person's consciousness and replace it with another.

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Don't be rediculous.
Issei doesn't really seem bothered by giving someone brain damage mainly cause she was a murderous bitch and we were totally okay with killing her or never seeing her again.

The prescence of the soul doesn't mean severe memory alteration isn't making new people.

And that would have also been a totally okay time to drop the UMI in combat against and agressor.

UMI is mindcontrol every last bit of it and it is an extension of violence that should never be casually dropped on people especially ones on your side.

 

[megrisvernin]

The difference between being persuasive & brainwashing or malicious manipulation strikes me as a mix of whether you're active trying working against your target's motivation & whether your squelching their ability to think for themselves in the future.

For example I don't think it's wrong to seduce Yang or Ruby. Neither of them have an active commitment to another male nor any strong loyalties to other groups.

It would be wrong to try & make them think that the supernatural world is vicious & cruel, playing up how someone will try to worm their way into their interests like Reynore & try & kill them. Basically restricting their worldview so they wouldn't make any allies or friends among devils & fallen_angels.

Similarly it's not wrong to try & convince Raiser to not try & beat Rias in a Peerage game, especially convincing him not to kill Rias's peerage. It would be wrong to convince him that he's a jerk & unworthy of her affections, turning him against his own motivation. It would be alright to tell him that to win Rias he should become someone worthy of her, someone who personifies virtue & honor who doesn't look down on people for their birth.

 

[iamnuff]

Where and when is consciousness? A quarter of your life, your whole life, 10 %, the last month, the last year, the last week? Does it matter whether you have fallen in love during that week?

Though yeah, I am not bothered with a few minutes or seconds, though I don't necessarily "like" it.

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considering the subject in question is "minutes and seconds" (and only a specific part of those, not just a total "forget everything that happened in the last ten minutes" deal) then the question is largely academic, don't you think?

losing a week would set you back a week, but it wouldn't destroy you, simply because anything you forget in that week can be relearned.

totally rewriting someone's mind? sure, i can see that being the same as killing them, but not removing memories. thats just setting you back to how you were before you had those memories, and obviously you were alive (and yourself) back then, so...

 

[Smuthunter]

Mindrape

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You keep throwing around this word like you think it gives you some imaginary moral high ground. Cut it out.

And in the interest of getting off-topic, who wants to place bets on Mittelt's fetishes?

 

[iamnuff]

You keep throwing around this rebuttal despite it obviously being absolutely retarded and wrong headed.

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so me reminding you that the game mechanic you are referring to not applying in this case is "retarded and wrong headed"

not only is that completely incorrect, it's also a personal insult.

congrats.

I mean any form of Mind control( aka Mindrape aka Compulsion aka unwilling Geasses aka Memory erasure aka the things Prof x does to make you ignore him) is UMI. Unnatural mental influence. Mental effect extending beyond supernal and wrenching effort and or outright magic to throw.

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what? the first part i sort of understand, even though you apparnatly consider totally controlling someone elses mind (which i would call "mindrape") and removing yourself from their memories to be the same thing, which shows you have no sense of scale, but the last part isn't even a sentence.

"wrenching effort or outright magic to throw"
run that by me again would you?

It doesn't suddenly not become UMI cause it's not a fucking charm in fucking Exalted.

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UMI is a keyword from exalted.

its literally a definition completely made up for that game.

so yes, it does.

Making them forget us lighting up like the noon day sun and break a dragon over our knees is fine.

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agreed.

Dropping suggestions for things we can fix with a bit of mortal footwork with no one in danger is not.

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mortal footwork? do go on.

We can charm the cop in question.

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isn't that exatly what i was suggesting? or did you mean "charm" as in purely mundane talky stuff, instead of the magic definition?
that might work on a teacher, but the police tend to aheare to regulations more, because it will literally cost them their jobs not to.

even if we pretend to be Y+R's brother or something, that wouldn't actually get them away from the police, they would need perents to show up, paperwork to be filled. police aren't in a habit of just letting people get away with stuff because they like you.

We can ask our own parents to help.

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so we are asking our perants to pretend to be Yang and Ruby's parents? with no documentation to show we are related?

We can do what people do to talk there way out of a ticket.

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you don't.

the policeman catches you speeding, or parking where you shouldn't, then you get a ticket, and you pay your fucking ticket.

I don't know what country you live in, where you can make they go away by batting your eyes, but in most places the laws are stricter (especially in Japan, i would think) if a policeman takes time our of his day to stop and deal with you, then you bet your ass there will be paperwork to fill in, that WILL be followed up on.

If the girls get dragged down to the station, then will be told to call their perants to come and pick them up, and fill out some paperwork to the effect of "this child was given a formal warning, and must attend X school, or else fines"

if it turns out they didn't call their parents, and some random 16 year old (?) shows up instead, then we had better lay on the fucking magic, because you can't explain your way out of that.

granted, we don't even know who they live with, or if they live alone, or even if they go to school.


trying to bring our up Mom and Dad, and say they are related to Ruby and Yang with have the police asking for ID to prove they are related, which will immediately uncover the stupid and poorly thought out lie, and probably end with them having charged brought against them, from whatever they can get you with in Japan for lying to a cop, all the way upto kidnapping (depending on who ruby and yang are supposed to be living with)

We're personable.

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being personable doesn't really help with the police, even if they like you, they have a job to do.

unless we find a corrupt cop we can bribe or something.

Then if nothing else work you can drag out.

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drag out? what?

Don't be rediculous.
Issei doesn't really seem bothered by giving someone brain damage mainly cause she was a murderous bitch and we were totally okay with killing her or never seeing her again.

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read the post again, "sometimes, giving people braindamage is ok" he really doen't seem torn up about it, i doubt he would consider the spiritual or philosifical rammifications of removing memories. he doesn't seem that deep.

The prescence of the soul doesn't mean severe memory alteration isn't making new people.

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if souls exist, then they are the "core" of a person.

the only way to turn a person into another person, would be to remove the soul, and replace it with another. change anything else (memories, body, species) and the "person" will remain the same.

that's what a soul is, after all.

UMI is mindcontrol every last bit of it and it is an extension of violence that should never be casually dropped on people especially ones on your side.

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so all UMI is mindcontrol, which is totally heinous, and everything that effects the mind whatsoever is UMI? because you say so?

good job only you seem to think that then, huh?

ok, we seem to have reach the bottom of this topic.

you seem to consider every single mental effect to be the same level of "evil" whether is a SEP field, mental screening, or total mental domination.

obviously I think there's a bit of a scale here.

you ALSO seem to be under the impression that a 16 year old boy can talk his way out of trouble with the police, without leaving behind any details, just by being charismatic enough.

sure, we might be able to, but not without using OTHER UNI charms, because our social roll isn't actually that high.
hell, Yang had a reason to like us (base attraction) and we almost failed that roll.
for a cop who's wondering "why isn't this punk kid in school too" we are going to have a lot more trouble.


look, the legal system is a bureaucracy, with paperwork and red tape. if we try and play it by the rules, we will end up with them asking "so, how exactly are you related to these two girls" then we won't actually have any way to answer that, because we aren't, trying to lie will get us caught, because we don't have any bureaucracy charms, dots in Bluff, or anything that helps with lying.

much simpler to just walk in, make eye contact, then grab Ruby and yang, then walk out.

 

[John At Dawn]

And in the interest of getting off-topic, who wants to place bets on Mittelt's fetishes?

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I'll get in on that action, if your pardon the pun.

Either she's into shibari or the rope mentioned in her letter to her family is for something else.