Pax's Alternate History Snippet repository.

[ATP]

Imperator Pax , i accidentally discovered two things:
1.Polish siberian division captured 4 armored trains on soviets - which mean,that czech probably had more.Your forces could have at least 10 armored trains now - useful for at least next 30 years there.

2.I discovered,that richest polish man ever was Karol Jaroszyński,who lost almost all during revolution .
Here,wiki:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjVzYHCwoiEAxWmc_EDHZQiADoQFnoECCsQAQ&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Jaroszy%C5%84ski&usg=AOvVaw1thnsko7ozytErPPTDniTv&opi=89978449

It is not entirely true - he died as catholic,so was not mason then,and,after WW1,lost what was left of his money trying to help Poland and destroy soviet economy/he had good plan to destroy their bank system - alas,England do not wonted help him/ soviets try to kill him in Paris for that.

He also loved tsar doughter Tatians,and tried to save tsar family.Here,where they are alive,he could not die in Poland,but maybe remain with russian waifu in China - he really was good in bussines.


P.S On another topic - Czech Skoda made during WW1 66 or 70mm naval gun for small destroyers - here,you could use it for your tank.Smaller then 75mm,and good enough for T.34.76 and all japaneese tanks.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Imperator Pax , i accidentally discovered two things:
1.Polish siberian division captured 4 armored trains on soviets - which mean,that czech probably had more.Your forces could have at least 10 armored trains now - useful for at least next 30 years there.

2.I discovered,that richest polish man ever was Karol Jaroszyński,who lost almost all during revolution .
Here,wiki:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjVzYHCwoiEAxWmc_EDHZQiADoQFnoECCsQAQ&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Jaroszy%C5%84ski&usg=AOvVaw1thnsko7ozytErPPTDniTv&opi=89978449

It is not entirely true - he died as catholic,so was not mason then,and,after WW1,lost what was left of his money trying to help Poland and destroy soviet economy/he had good plan to destroy their bank system - alas,England do not wonted help him/ soviets try to kill him in Paris for that.

He also loved tsar doughter Tatians,and tried to save tsar family.Here,where they are alive,he could not die in Poland,but maybe remain with russian waifu in China - he really was good in bussines.


P.S On another topic - Czech Skoda made during WW1 66 or 70mm naval gun for small destroyers - here,you could use it for your tank.Smaller then 75mm,and good enough for T.34.76 and all japaneese tanks.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I estimated that the czech train force was any where from 12 to 24 trains based off of reports from General Graves Siberian command (how many of those were properly armored Graves isn't clear but there would be at least ten)

 

[ATP]

Yeah I estimated that the czech train force was any where from 12 to 24 trains based off of reports from General Graves Siberian command (how many of those were properly armored Graves isn't clear but there would be at least ten)

Click to shrink...

In 1939 polish armored trains were effective against germans/helped stop german tanks at Mokra battle,among others cases/ , so they would be good for Japan,too.
You could keep them,against Japan,till end of war.

 

[Imperator Pax]

May 1920
The Australians had taken a gargantuan 'tank' from the Germans as war booty, even though he'd only seen pictures of it the absurdity of the 'Mark VIII' sitting on the gravel was measurable. It had its own sort of appeal to be sure, but the size of the British and the German tanks relative to the French one. They didn't have the German one for comparison but they had the picture of the Australians crawling all over the thing.

It was a monster.

"What the hell?" Cullen muttered. "They said there was a difference. The automotive park had several tractors as well. "Where is Hall anyway, this was supposed to his showing?"

"The caterpillar tracks." He jerked his hand towards one of the shorter tractors, "The French tank, the Renault is about seven tons." Seven feet high, he waved to the brit one, "That is thirty eight tons. It'll do five miles an hour to the french seven."

They shared a look. Griswold slapped them both on the back, "The next generation of warfare bound to be some teething issues, Randolph," Hall, "and I will take it from here."

Cullen raised an eyebrow, "Think he was anxious to get rid of us fast enough?"

"Suppose so, the fords are are best bet still for armored protection," They didn't expect to get much out of either design... but artillery wanted something that theoretically could carry something... which meant they were probably more interested in the British design, "At least for machine guns."

"That's what I've been told, they can also more readily carry troopers. Still be officially infantry, we'll let the red legs handle those things. No complaints from me," He remarked... and that was basically it. They had been talking about it and the states back home had rules tanks were to be an infantry matter. In Xian it would be the artillery. Armored cars would be an infantry matter, because there was no cavalry, though some infantry formations would adopt styles like the cavalry that the Gendarmes had been using. "If the red legs aren't going to fight the infantry for mortars we can toss them in the back of the trucks."

There had been several larger mortars that while feasible for a team to carry it ran into the issue of feeding the things. It thereby made more sense to mechanize heavier mortars. "The hundred and twenty will largely be with the brigades, and Rifle divisions." He remarked. The brigades would get them first just because they were smaller specialist units, and lugging a hundred twenty pound mortar plus several hundred rounds... far too many rounds to expect leg infantry to deploy from such a vehicle, but sufficient for the rebuilt Fultons with their long beds.

The general idea was the brigade's attached Heavy Combat engineers would be covered in the dismount they'd effect a fighting position. The Mortar Platoon would then effect sustained fired, holding the enemy in place to cover the maneuver.

It was mechanicist. It relied on a mechanical progression of battle, through a series of steps, but the argument lay in accepted theoretical principles. It was what Black Jack would have done "Division of the labor aside, Ford has been paid. The assembly line should be operational by the fall." Several million dollars.

"That's right." Cole agreed. "We should have ten thousand trucks sent over, Ford's people will oversee our assembly, and we will get a batch each year until we're through the allotment. Five years as per the writing."

He nodded. Ford had agreed to terms in no small part to put one over on Studebaker. Those ten thousand trucks would nearly double the number of registered automobiles in China. It was why they had insisted on trucks and not cars though. They were still going to bring in cars, but they were the least of it, since they'd wittled Ford into agreeing to a tractor factor as well. The deal would ultimately run to 1927 being superseded by an agreement on overhauling of factory lines that would entail engineers going to Ford's factories for lessons... but that would be years in the future... and in part driven by the expansion of demand for the automobile expanding beyond the company niche.

They would still be far behind the likes of France, and the States behind Japan, and England as well... but there would be a growing demand for cars as the landscape changed.

--
They had divided, before they had even really started work on the constitution the legal reforms necessary to do things. That had meant civil and criminal work to pick up the slack by previous administrations, but now that the constitution was in effect it was a different... different sort of thing. The previous arrangement had to change because it had always been interim.

The change over had meant other changes, knock on effects. Cullen had had to appoint Gendarmes to take up criminal investigations well in excess of what they'd originally been intended to, which had tied down officers and other ranks for those duties. As it was some of that was going to have to stay. Other duties were going to have to be county and municipal police.

"What am I looking at?"

"Its the construction prospectus."

He rolled eyes, "Yes, and," Then whirled around looking for, the signatures on the bottom, "Oh look my name your name, Bill, Waite, what came up?'

"We've been building for a while, ten years, but it changed after we moved here." He meant Xian specifically, Griswold tapped where the inter-urbans were moving, "People had started fleeing here while Bai Lang started moving west. Then the war started."

"And had a body of labor." People had needed jobs, then the war had started. China had managed to avoid the inflation in labor, "Is that changing?"

"No, labor, factory labor, isn't the problem housing is, we can bring in plenty of sons from the farms, and the countryside." That made up more of the work force than immigration, "But take the automotive factory for example, its here," Sam moved around, "Bai's rampage scared a lot of people, pushed Xian to about two million people," And even after Bai Lang had been killed there had still been Jia clinging to Bai Lang's banner and his message afterwards, "Not all of them left, and after the war boom started that expanded."

None of this was a new or unique phenomenon. Peking, Tietsin, Shanghai a lot of the big coastal cities had it, Harbin would see it. There were jobs. A similar problem existed in the states, existed in Paris, in London, in Berlin, in all the big mill towns. "So municipal management. There is another thing, while you're here." He shrugged, and the most obvious decision were intersections on the line. Significant places where the main rail lines met, close proximity to not just water, or arable land, but mines that could support new factories. "Get with Hall, and take what you need from the Corp of Engineers,"

"The dam?"

"Yeah." He replied. They had been looking at going forward, it was the right time of year now to break ground on it, Akashi's death had been unfortunate. It hadn't derailed the project but it had been a second set of eyes they didn't have any more.

 

[Imperator Pax]

In 1939 polish armored trains were effective against germans/helped stop german tanks at Mokra battle,among others cases/ , so they would be good for Japan,too.
You could keep them,against Japan,till end of war.

Click to shrink...

Right, we we get to the defensive cordon early in the war against Japan we will see armored trains and railway guns thats was always in the cards because at its core the cadre began life as a railway industrial group and even after 39 we will still see armored train usage later on even if largely in a northern chinese context, they won't be as important in a southern theater component

 

[ATP]

Right, we we get to the defensive cordon early in the war against Japan we will see armored trains and railway guns thats was always in the cards because at its core the cadre began life as a railway industrial group and even after 39 we will still see armored train usage later on even if largely in a northern chinese context, they won't be as important in a southern theater component

Click to shrink...

Good idea,against light tanks,like that used by Japan,it would be efficient.
Here,about battle of Mokra,you have info about our armored train there.:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjGhbrK0ZGEAxVmVPEDHdXzAagQFnoECA8QAQ&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mokra&usg=AOvVaw3DRi1wx0LqYqazHvnaUEdD&opi=89978449

There is one mistake there - german Ju 87 was used to destroing polish town Wieluń,where was no polish army.
Nobody knew,why germans committed that particular crime.
Only Hs 123 supported german tanks.
Here,armored train mentioned there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śmiały_(armoured_train)

Mechanized mortars - good idea,you could use them on some armored tractors.
About tanks - you couls made early sometching like british light tank MK VI,but with 20mm gun in turret - enough for all japaneese tanks till end of the war.

Here:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiAqJCl05GEAxVZcfEDHTG-BdoQFnoECBIQAQ&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Tank_Mk_VI&usg=AOvVaw2hoMzCPK1IxtYwlsTpiqEE&opi=89978449

When your 105mm howitzers on armored tractors could support infrantry

 

[Imperator Pax]

May 1920
The Corp of Engineers had under gone a degree of professionalization that mirrored the General Staff. They still had different roles, and there was overlap, but the production of automobiles created a pressure in the chain that was different than the matter of the locomotive. Percy had observed that that the army would have to grow, regardless of what he had based that conclusion on it was true.

That was itself an important distinction, since the consensus at all ranks was that the army would expand in size, but for any number of reasons. Xian had rapidly grown into a hub of rail traffic. Three years of near constant expansion had meant that the lines west of the ancient city now dwarfed in mileage the eastern section of the network. There was no indication that that change would reverse.

... but it was also shaping two different directions from the Corp, and from the General Staff. He already officers who were predicting a future war with the menace of the Bolsheviks. Predictions that had begun after Omsk had fallen, may have even predated it, but before the Red Cavalry had been excoriated against Irkutsk and the defenses of the Baikal. There were staff officers who quickly pointed out the logistical hurdle of projecting power into the Siberian expanse, but it was the Corp which had predominantly planned and carried out the railways, and the road network.

That wasn't the driving reason for the response to the Bolshevik threat. It was political. It was more than that Trotsky was a frothing mad man, or Lenin's callousness. It was what they wrote, and it was the spread of war communism, and the seizure of grain from the peasants. In a confucian ideal there was a sort of yeoman farmer yearning... it wasn't quite jeffersonian small farmer republic but they weren't alien ideals to one another.

That created a political opposition to what Lenin talked about, but also because modernization was taking root. Fundamentally though, even in just vernacular language, the conversation was shaped by comparing the Bolsheviks to bandits which sapped and eroded any pretenses to legitimacy. That was further shaped by the Russian sloughing off territory left and right. The independence of the Poles, and Finns, the baltic countries and Lenin's acquiescence initially, leaving aside the current wars, presented a weak and unfavorable picture of the Reds as a potential government.

That didn't discredit them as a potential threat. Just because a bandit couldn't hold an entire province didn't stop him from being able to ride through it setting fires as he liked.

How did you stop that? Which was why with summer approaching the staff college was a swarm with notions on the inevitable war against bandits, because well the southern bandits were now 'small bandits' and the potential Bolshevik threat was now 'large bandits'.

It was a headache, but one that would only get worse as the south would inevitably compound the underlying ideological issues. Those political ideas would be shaped by economic progress and modernization as the railway network in the west expanded and grew.

Cullen leaned against the wall, "Its not just the Army either." He replied his cavalry boots on the crate of papers, which had yet to be pulled open, "Its good for us to have breathing space. Kirghiz, whatever is going on north of us. That's land, somebody else's land that is between us and the reds, I may not like all the whites, but I'll take them over Lenin any day."

"What are you thinking?"

"English is the language of the railway, the British have brought in lawyers, and newspaper men."

"And?"

"There aren't that many schools, there are probably even fewer type sets for Cyrillic, I want to give the whites an option to be seen as modernizing, and to break them off culturally from Moscow, and Petersburg."

There was a thing called the unity church which while conducting mass in the Greek trappings its recognized the pope in rome as head of the Christian church with the Russian patriarch in disgrace and the situation otherwise complicated it was a move that most wouldn't have contemplated... especially since the English type sets and printing presses for papers the British had wasted space in trains to bring in were already there. "And you think the British will go for it?"

"I think they'll agree with the bold face type of it." He replied.

Allen shifted the papers, "And where did you get the idea for this?"

"Akashi, god rest his soul."

"From what he wrote, resting wasn't what he had in mind."
--
He folded the paper, and glanced up at the slightly older man, "This is the warrant, for your assumption of the rank of General, and to assume command of the next Rifle Division."

The Eighth.

Which was where things became complicated. 1st​ and 3rd​ Divisions had a common lineage. There were shared traditions there were officers from the RPF in senior posts in both commands, and in 2nd​ division. First through third were full readiness commands, supported by brigades. 4th​ Division was officially the Shansi division of the National Guard. 7th​ Division would be posted to Kansu, and take up its garrison at the Lake, officially.

Shang didn't protest the command, not this time.

They had had considerations. As the senior most colonel in the ranks, Shang had been the strongest contender for command of the Western Zhili Brigade with its mechanized elements. "The situation in the south."

"Yes, Cunhuo is making ground and," With the windfall he probably had taken on in terms of booty, and plunder from taking Mianyang, "We expect him to displace Lu Chao from Chengdu over the course of his summer campaigning." Maybe as early as July. Now whether or not he could make good on that? Whether he could turn those successes into a march further south, and take Chunking it didn't matter. It was enough already to make the British nervous since it was 'their sphere of influence'.

... and it was enough to make them concerned if he turned the opposite way. There were a variety of northern for lack of a particularly good comparison tribal confederations and chiefdoms in the north of szechwan.... but if Liu Cunhuo did pivot north to gobble up all of Chao's former territory, assert hegemony over that... there was little those feeble chiefdoms could do to stop him.

There was no question that would lead to Ma's independent brigades were still dancing over the border, and Liu would most likely use that as an excuse to launch his own raids. That was a problem for other reasons. Liu was one rising star displacing Lu Chao who had lost his grip on power and was back peddling. Chen to the west sat looking across the border with the eastern most portions of tibet... the portions that they were administrating... 3rd​ Division's was officially garrisoned in Tibet. Money into tibet, investment capital going into tibet would attract predatory attention from Szechwan's teeming mass of bandits.

It was Szechwan, and its chaos, and its larger population, which shaped the decision to raise a fourth full time division. It was to be a response to deteriorating conditions in Szechwan... even though internally it was also shaped discussions regarding the distinction between 'big' bandits and small bandits, and looking towards the northwestern border.

That was there problem. That was what they were looking at. Griswold, Phillips, Liu (Qing En) were all discussing not just semi automatic rifles, there was to be a conference the following month, but also the prospect of milder smaller cartridges to contend with the magazines. What was still was not contended with was the break between Anhui, and Zhili and how Manchuria was looking at Zhili's actions.



--
Notes: Ok so the anti Xiong war was one of the larger, but still relatively small conflicts that were common place in Sichuan province. And figuring out who had what when before the dust settled isn't well documented. Lu was one of those KMT guys who was good about starting rebellions who would then when things started to go badly proceeded to book it, he fled to Japan a couple times (he was educated in Japan), he hid out in Shanghai, but his base of power was limitted during this period, so as suggest here, the summer campaign drives him out of the province entirely (and he flees back to Shanghai). Xiong Kew and Liu (one of several warlords named Liu operating in Szechwan in this period), and Lu, and frankly a number of particularly the eastern Sichuan warlords will show up in the next three four years dealing with the provincial border skirmishing, beyond that Xiong advocated a Federal system for China, which put him at odds with both the northern aligned beiyang appointed provincial leadership as well as the handful of KMT aligned leadership.

 

[ATP]

Soviets after 1920 really behaved like bandits - unable to start war,but still raiding.Poand deal with it by creating special formation to defend borders,and,if need,organize ambushes for soviets and counter-intelligence.

It was created in 1924 and named as KOP.Here:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...usg=AOvVaw0dSGbXhYIBojnDk4WENTRm&opi=89978449

You could do the same here - create special border formation with artillery,calvary and engineers.It worked for Poand,so would work for your China,too.

About engineers - create mobile units to repair everything on battlefield.

 

[ATP]

Imperator Pax , i read about german reaction to tanks - except their own shitty tanks they created also AT rifles named T-Gewer which was big,heavy,and could broke arm of user,but was capable of destroing tanks.
Your China could build something better - AT rifles for infrantry should be good enough against japaneese tanks.Maybe copy soviet models?

And, they also build about 6000 AT 37mm guns named 3,7cm TAK, but unfortunatelly i do not found anything about how efficient they were.
Still - your China could build something better using them as example.

 

[Imperator Pax]

June 1920
The war in Europe's end forced a number of things to the fore. Things that had been largely delegated to secondary committees in the face trade the brought the money in to pay for everything else

The issue of compiling a modern civil, and criminal law took time, would take time not the least of which was that in a few months they would be holding provincial elections to fill the lower house, and also county and municipal positions. That got into who was eligible for the vote in the first place, that got into then registering them, and that meant pictures and name and address and for some people that was no issue. Anyone in the army already had their pictures taken a hundred times over... because while there might not have been a hundred colonels active there were enough officers across three full time divisions and the two reservists alone to warrant entire books of photographs.

Actually domestic photography had been something of a growing demand of late, which played into yet another matter, beyond simply preparing for the elections in the fall.

Waite rested a hand on the pink of India, "I don't think this map is accurate any more John." Rand, McNally, and Company had printed this one in 1914, before the guns of august had opened, but for the most part it showed the world as it was a decade earlier... with some updates of the Russo-Japanese war, labelling Port Arthur under Japanese control, It showed Japan and her empire in a color that with age and sunlight matched that of England's.

Rand's map said it was a Republic of China and made no comment upon the status of Mongolia or Tibet... but that wasn't the half of it. Yuan Shikai had been dead four years now.. and the Empire of Russia was now gone.

If only they could have kept the soviets from pushing past the natural boundary of the Urals. Instead Russian Turkestan had seen the influx of a million Cossacks, and then Kolchak had been forced to take Japanese hospitality in the trans baikal. "They're lines on a map, George." Cole replied drumming his fingers.

Waite shot him a dirty look, "We didn't start the line out to Lhasa until Yuan was dead, and buried," Allen knew what was coming with the mention, it was a conversation that he had had with Reinsch back in the summer of 1916; Simla. The line to Lhasa had not opened until over a year later, and had been overshadowed by the Guatemala advance. "The Brits were too busy back then," the war too consuming by that point and 3rd​ Division had started stationing a battalion in eastern Tibet, at the rail head.

That might not have sounded liked much... but Lhasa in 1915 hadn't been but about thirty thousand and it was dwindling at the time. The Qing officials, the old armies were gone, there were still merchants but the economy was in decline as the Xinhai revolt had tossed things into flux.... and the war had done it no favors.

That was the real detail that mattered, not the battalion per se, but the arrival of the railhead... and what it also brought with it. The opening of the railhead brought with it the start of industrial investment, but the war was over now. "What are you suggesting?"

"I want to reallocate the Eighth Regiment, and the 8th​ Division headquarters to Lhasa, failing that I think we should consider expanding the existing presence to a regimental headquarters, and reallocating 3rd​ Division's position." That was going to be controversial given the ongoing discussions regarding 7th​ Division in Kansu.

"You realize its been a little over a week since I've even told Shang that the eighth is to be stood up?"

"I know, and I know the consensus is with what Yan said, that the reserve should be established first," That Yan's overarching model was more the National Guard of the states than the army of Imperial Japan's reserve system had escaped precisely no one, but it wasn't political Yan probably had made that decision for as much financial reasons, for prudence, as he had with an eye towards mobilizing the guard by Wilson in 1917. "We'd have a hard time going off, but I'll be honest, Yan could have a hundred thousand men in the reserves with just Shansi," That was true, which was why the reserve had been allocated at that strength because it was imminently feasible to recruit at that strength for this coming financial year. "The expenditure of a garrison command, and appointing a senior staff officer should settle the public on regards to Szechwan."

That was also true, if they went and put money into the southern border, or into Tibet, but then turned around and put a new division with established leadership... Szechwan's warlords might decide it wasn't worth the effort to poke the dragon.

--
Yan was quick to extol his view of three duties... but he had backed off the notion of conscription along a Japanese model, or a Prussian model, in part for economic reasons but also to avoid protests from his own provincial gentry. The farmers didn't appreciate their sons going off to the army, especially not for a few years and then deciding that they didn't particularly want to go back home to the family farm.

It was from a manpower perspective to have men in urban professions in cities with depots, or other facilities to handle reservist duties in part because it avoided those problems. If a boy moved off the farm, went to the city got a job, and then enlisted well that was that. On the other hand, there was an expectation of literacy. Yan felt the same way... and that meant putting money into Shansi's primary school system.

"If that we had started ten years ago... No?"

Allen shrugged, rubbing his brow, "Would we be further along, maybe, but in 1910? No we couldn't have started that, even with Edenborn's help, 1913, 1914 would have been the earliest I could see us having started," But so much of what had come in had been the transition to farther west, relocation to xian after beating off Bai Lang, and then with the war in Europe starting bringing in so much in the way of capital that they could afford those expenditures... and they couldn't afford to pretend that they could have done things with things they only knew in hindsight... but there were lessons that they had learned during the war years, and even before that they could put into practice. "Its not just the schools that the war is over, we need to look at technological rationalization," New tools, mechanization of the mining, they had already done what they could with work force organization, and integration of adjacent industries.

Part of it was of course that ten years ago, hell most of China was still digging coal for season consumption needs. Most mines operating were small, rural, poor access to roads, and dug most of their stock during the high demand months of the year. That was to say during winter, because most of the demand was for the heating of houses, and for cooking. Sun Yat-sen, and Cao Kun for that matter, were right in that that was in no small part as to the regionalization of the railroads, that while trains consumed coal their demands were largely made on supply chains that were outside the normal scope of demand.

There was just so little heavy industry to actually demand coal otherwise. There was little in demand for most ancient towns, and cities, regardless of how large for electrical energy generation, the demand wasn't there in Yuan Shikai's day... and there was no capital to bring such to the cities in the south independent of outside investment that was from the treaty ports. There were other factors, but it was mostly the lack of confidence and the cause of that was the chaos.

... a chaos which they did not expect was about to get much worse.

"Putting Shansi to one side for the moment," Dawes remarked, "From the sound of it Duan wants to mount another expedition south." There were grumblings from the handful others in the room to which Allen could sympathize with, and the older man rifled through the papers, "Its a couple divisions being called up, but I don't see any talk that suggest they've learned their lesson."

It was the same plan. Go down the railway try and force their way down to presumably where all this mess had begun. That wasn't to say Hankou or its neighboring cities weren't important, they were, but there was too much space between them. "Hupeh, Szechwan? Or does he think to go all the way?"

"To Yunnan, no from the sound of it the talk is replay the last attempt."

"Like I Said." Dawes grumbled to Hodges's statement... the other man was already discussing going to Lhasa personally

 

[Imperator Pax]

July 1920
One couldn't ignore the outside world. Isolationism didn't work in a world of the telegraph and the steam engine.

The Bolsheviks had proclaimed their Tartar Republic at the end of June. The issue that dominated discussion amongst White Russian forces south and east of the city of Kazan, in Kighiz and transbaikal were that it was solidifying Red control over holdings gained... there were grumbling complaints that the Czech Legion had taken and held Kazan briefly... and what if what if what if... but they were rampant speculations of things that might could or should have been not what was.

The bigger concern was the mountain of warnings elsewhere, of drought and grain seizures, the combination of both. It was to mean a famine... a famine that would kill millions. A famine that could not be reasonably attributed to the muted border skirmishes of the civil war as lines on the map became fixed by a begrudging acceptance of political reality. Famine as a weapon of terror, was the reality of it, and not simply incompetence or mismanagement. The Reds intentionally were stripping grain from peasants.

It was a decision that redoubled or compelled certain procedures. Firstly was the condition of the east. Japan wanted to sink capital into the eastern breakaway states, some even beat upon the drum of the old Russo-Japanese war to address perceived grievances. Those investments very likely would make some men very rich, the ones who could afford to invest the Yen.

"What's Iseburo have to say then?"

Allen folded the couriered letter in half, "Not terribly much its all dry calculus, he wants to bring in more experts to adminster things, a lot of work to be done, and not much in the way of people" Most likely that would mean an influx of Koreans, more Chinese, and Japanese from the home islands, "Here."

He handed over the sketched diagram, "This looks familiar, its county and provincial organization?"

"Its Yamagata's organizational model, as Inspector General Iseburo has the authority to organize the police force on the railway." He replied... Percy had remarked that if Japan succeeded in walking away with the Russian Far East it would reorder world politics well in excess of the paramount shift from the Russo-Japanese war. It would mean that Japan would be absolutely forced to accept the calculus of facing the Soviets to their west insuring an eternal partnership, between the Japanese Army and the Royal Navy to encircle the Bolshevik threat.

It was idealistic after a fashion, perhaps optimistic was the better factor, and ignored... well factors like what the Canadians for example wanted... and the position of preeminence of the Japanese Navy as well for that matter.

It was admittedly the course of action that Yamagata, the old man, would have preferred... but Lenin had withdrawn the Bolsheviks to Moscow and while it might have been possible to invest and seize Petersburg if there was the will to support the army, that was lacking. "What news?" He remarked taking the chart back, and folding it behind the first page.

"Duan is very clear where he stands with the south," and at least on that at least the Red Leg was consistent, even if it wasn't very realistic... perhaps best demonstrated by Cao Kun's assumption of the mantle of leadership that had been left when Feng had passed away in December. "Cao Kun is just not having it, and its not just him, his command is not happy, and that's not a good sign." That was in hindsight a serious understatement, it was to prove a severe understatement it was to change the entire course of affairs.

"And?"

"the numbers are divided, Feng made a compelling argument, maybe it wasn't the most popular one at first, but Duan has burned a lot of goodwill." There was pause, "Percy still thinks you should go to England."

"And?"

"And you should take Bill, show the flag. Its the sort of thing that means a lot to the Brits, and lets be honest shake some hands with the European office,"

He snorted, "Its starting to sound like a conspiracy is afoot, I had the same discussion with pops at lunch yesterday, funny thing, Bill gets a transpacific phone call from the Colonel too."

Waite shrugged dismissively, "Well if Colonel McCulloch says-" He stopped, "Its important, its for the good of the firm... and, there are other reasons," One thing would lead to another, the upcoming surprise would derail the New Year's trip, and by that point ... by the point that pressure had mounted, well there were reasons to go. Japan's crown prince would be going to the following summer's festivities in the King of England's honor... and well... those proceedings would be, would be interrupted by whole other unforeseen matters. "You're saying the old man brought it up?"

"Yes."

Waite gave another shrug, glanced down at the organization. "He say anything about this,"

"No," and frankly Allen didn't expect anything to be said. "Municipal, county, and provinces is smart way to make things run smooth." Post office, police reforms and so on the list went on. "Iseburo has already mentioned schools, but only because he knows it will have to be done, the Diet is unlikely to throw him funding for it quickly... but the buryats and their local Buddhists we can expect there will be advisors soon enough."

"Its a pity Akashi's gone." George observed.
--
The telegrams were flurrying back and forth. It was hard to be sure what had driven Feng's original position on Federalism in China... the man was dead now so they sure couldn't ask him. Originally it hadn't been popular with the Beiyang clique, the south had liked it... but Duan's supporters had wanted to roast Feng like a side of ham for it.

... but the fighting had gone on, and Yuan was dead, and that left things divided. Divided in ways that hadn't been able to accurately predict...

"we so don't need this right now." Duan was refusing to back down... they just didn't have any idea about what it was that was going to give.

Allen nodded, acknowledged the obvious, "What is Cao Kun going to do?"

"Right, the same thing he's been doing. He's not happy, mostly its just telegrams to everyone who came up under him... or his friends. Which I will remind you that includes us." Griswold remarked, "and that's something the Legation isn't about to let us forget."

"Shang, Lee, either of you want up?"

Lee looked up from his stack of circulars, "Would the arrival of Minister Crane not change our standing with the Legation?"

There were a couple of glances, and Bill nodded, "He's right we're in Crane's good books. This isn't like with Reinsch. Counting that Alston isn't likely to rock the boat."

"Duan Qirui would be beholden to Japanese financial assistance if he wishes to open a new campaign in Honan, and the international concession in Hankou, would draw unfavorable press." Shang observed. "If he is as he appears to be, he is going to take the War Participation Army South... or he is going to mobilize the five divisions associated with him."

Looks passed. There were independent brigades, but the 'clique' around Duan was complicated. The cadre had been growing contentious about the forays the Ma clique had been running over the border into Szechwan, but broadly accepted it for what it was... Little Ma was doing what he had been told to do... but those independent brigades had been running over the border for years now. It was complicated, by the fact Old Ma had died and the leadership had shifted... and the changes of legal leadership in Gansu, provincial leadership... the situation in Xinjiang ... and now this.

Duan clique was maybe twenty fellas... but in a way that was overstating that, or understating. Duan had a prominent collection of people carrying his position in the legislature, but that wasn't it. Of the twenty, "Well of the governors, Duan has maybe five guys he could really depend on,"... and the problem with that was the damage done over the past year to Chang... "And Ni for that matter, Anwhei is a powder keg, the gentry don't like Ni." Griswold observed, and clucked his tongue before stating the obvious. "Hunan is a mess too... Crane is gonna regret becoming Minister if his first real month on the job is a war."

They had been hoping that elections in the western provinces would woo Crane, and thus Washington about progress in China, but those elections were several months out still. This would throw a cloud over any of that. Frankly they had expected that had Reinsch stuck around the elections of the lower house might ameliorate some there, but Reinsch had returned to the states.

 

[ATP]

Two question - who get Magadan here,and its gold? ,and - who get Siberia oil here? if Japan,they coud not feel threathened by USA sanctions to start war,like in OTL.

One interesting thing - i read many memories of poles who survived there in death camps,according to them local yakut people look like japaneese,and could not be differ till they start speaking.
Maybe japaneese try to assimilate them now ?

 

[Imperator Pax]

Two question - who get Magadan here,and its gold? ,and - who get Siberia oil here? if Japan,they coud not feel threathened by USA sanctions to start war,like in OTL.

One interesting thing - i read many memories of poles who survived there in death camps,according to them local yakut people look like japaneese,and could not be differ till they start speaking.
Maybe japaneese try to assimilate them now ?

Click to shrink...

The western siberian field is still within the control of the soviets. Magadan's gold ... if I were going to guess would probably be under the control of mitsui in terms of Japanese mining concerns (they come to mind first, there are other corporations who could be involved) but yes Magadan is under Japanese control.

Yes, with the Yakut, among others the Japanese objective (especially in this period) is assimilation

 

[ATP]

The western siberian field is still within the control of the soviets. Magadan's gold ... if I were going to guess would probably be under the control of mitsui in terms of Japanese mining concerns (they come to mind first, there are other corporations who could be involved) but yes Magadan is under Japanese control.

Yes, with the Yakut, among others the Japanese objective (especially in this period) is assimilation

Click to shrink...

Then Japan would still attack USA when they start embargo.
Yakut people - i read about their traditions - they were formally orthodox,but practically still belived in shaman traditions,and had aldo tradition of warrior class fighting each other/they made their own swords and armours/
So,Japaneese tradition would be close to them.

I hope,that when Japan fall,they would be not occupied by soviets.It would mean genocide,like in OTL.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Then Japan would still attack USA when they start embargo.
Yakut people - i read about their traditions - they were formally orthodox,but practically still belived in shaman traditions,and had aldo tradition of warrior class fighting each other/they made their own swords and armours/
So,Japaneese tradition would be close to them.

I hope,that when Japan fall,they would be not occupied by soviets.It would mean genocide,like in OTL.

Click to shrink...

Soviets are a little busy in the west by the time Xian starts its northern thrust into Mongolia, and 'Leningrad' is still ongoing by the time Xian reaches Irkutsk in late '43 with a then pivot east and the drive to the sea aimed at the coast from Vladivostok (Sea of Japan) down to the Bohai (so the march on Beijing) from march of 44 on

In this timeline there is very little Soviet / Red Army prescence in Asia during WW2

 

[Imperator Pax]

July 1920
The month would have been busy anyway given the approaching start of term. The matter of education, including higher learning, had matters that needed to tend to and that required the Cadre's presence when there was so much else to do as well. There were matters of banking that needed to be seen to. There were preparations for elections come in the fall. There was construction work in the vicinity of the city galore. All of those things could be thought to just entail Xian. The city, the county around, the neighboring counties, the province, the provinces next door.

There was the army to think about. It was summer bandits were going to be a concern. Bandits were certainly going to be a problem if Duan made moves down south, and the south stirred the pot further. Then there was everything with the White Russians, the Japanese. The British were going to wag their tongues. All of it was a given.

All of that was business, but they had expected that things would calm down with the end of the war in Europe. Things would stabilize that there would be a relaxation of war time powers and the possibility that other American capital would start to flow into central and south China. That maybe the American railway company might push into the south and facilitate some miraculous binding up of the provinces. Maybe that had been a bit optimistic but with the war over it had seemed, it had been expected that people of means in the state would start looking for foreign investments.

The ... findings were interesting, but he hadn't expected it with all the trouble. Optimism was one thing, but they'd been in China for more than a decade now and institutional knowledge of that gave perspective.


Augustus was holding one of the bronze arrowheads to scrutinize.

"Was I mistaken in believing you found such things interesting?"

He looked at Jun, and then to the objects that had been dug up, "No, yes I am interested in the past Jun but your own papers make it very clear there is a lot going on." Bill wasn't helping the situation by examining a piece of pottery that had been put out on the table... and he was right photographing things were a good idea. They were already going to have to move and find another site to put the well down. "You want me to go to the village?"

"Yes," She replied "and take Augustus, as you stated it is about time he start seeing the work."

That wasn't what he had meant, but he'd been about this age when he'd been given the first book on understanding the telegraph system for the railway... but he hadn't also been trying to learn Chinese characters alongside the dots and dashes.

His initial inclination was to ring the university. History was important, maybe they could have volunteers, they could make some learning experience of it all, certainly that would have been less controversial to bringing 1st​ Battalion along for a hike fifteen miles north east for a weekend outing that would end up turning into a lot longer than a weekend. Still that was ultimately the choice he made, to go to the office phone and have the switch board ring the officer of the watch... in this case the Battalion XO with orders to bring 1/1 to assembly.

--
It had rained that morning, and that boiled off the humidity, meant it was a fairly nice day all things considered. Hopefully the short rain coming would be indicative of the season and that come september the farms would be well watered. Still now that it had moved off, was pretty good weather, nice breeze. All in all it was a comfortable morning, and that would make this easy enough. "I'm sorry," He told the other man in gray, "I could have sworn that you said it was a pyramid?" Allen replied turning on his heel away from the mound.

"A large bronze horse as well." One of the scout snipers of the battalion had sketched a copy of it, and another man from the platoon had likewise filled out a sketch of the site.

He turned on his heel, twisting again, and looked at the rail line. The north line was in visual distance... if it had been two miles south they would have probably found this six years ago before Augustus had been born. "Push the cordon, bring the rest of the regiment down, tell 'em, tell 'them whatever we have here, its important." He pivoted back, "Augustus, get back here." He looked at the junior staff officer, "tell the details start taking photos of everything. Everything If that's a pyramid, if you see more of these clay soldiers," He considered for a moment knowing he would be expecting a lot of photographs, "the horse bones too, everything. Regular guards are to be posted at intervals..." He clucked his tongue, "in fact make an exercise of it, push out this place is big, defend it as if you were going to protect Zhengzhou."

"Sir."

Someone years in the future, would probably complain about their initial response... but in 1920 with archaeology still largely in its infancy the modern science of archaeology just didn't exist as a proper discipline yet... such that doctors of antiquity from Yale and Trinity college would complain that it wasn't right to use the army for this sort of thing. That is could have compromised the site, that they could have inflicted untold destruction on priceless historical remnants of a bygone age.

In July of 1920 though, mathematical certainty mapping, controlled expedition by professional soldiers was something close enough to care about what they were doing. He stood at the field table and looked at the sketches... the long side of the exterior wall was estimated to be over a mile... they weren't sure yet but they were pretty sure the rivers established the presumable natural boundaries of the sight. So they'd push over and south of the river away from the 'city' and form a defensive place there.

The discovery would be somewhat overshadowed in international press as Shanghai, and the North China Herald focused on the crisis in Peking. No one in Peking would pay attention to an archaeological find, even one of this nature, and in a few days, one half of the beiyang clique would be shooting at the other as the Anfu club attempted to fend off the Zhili side.

The outing was a strictly local matter, and the significance meant little really until the next year, and after the elections had been held in early November.
--
Notes: July of 1920 is a long series of short segments. Frankly, all of them could, including this one, could do with expansion... because again if nominally every normal ~9-10 weeks of in story content was about eighty thousand words July '20 would warrant a lot more in terms of stuff in the outline but just isn't fully being fleshed out, but there are a number of things that happen in this month that have long term repercussions.

 

[Imperator Pax]

July 1920
The table was a clamor of noise as they shuffled and moved papers around and carried on over the business, and how others conducted theirs, "The Federal Reserve Branch of New York, had an opening capital of twenty million dollars, I shouldn't have to tell you," Waite drawled, "that it was the largest even before they started taking in deposits from the wealthy, or that it was understandably significantly larger than what Atlanta opened with." It had had been discussed that Atlanta was a much smaller bank, and had no where near the capital influx, which was by no means a surprise. "It brought in one hundred million dollars in its first day of operation. That was in 1914, and before the war started." and of course that was part of the issue that Wilson's government had been trying to wrap their heads around... and in a way what they were trying to make sense of the best way to work as well.

Officially the banking commission the board of the reserve bank was modelled on a mix of the bank of England and the Federal Reserve system in the states. Lender of last resort, so on and so forth, a consolidation of assets.

On the other hand, there had been no expectation for a large gold reserve, not the least of which was the Chinese dollar had remained stable because it was on the silver standard, and that had insulated it from concerns about gold during the war. The silver dollar had been stable, against the pound, the dollar the Yen ... now admittedly that hadn't applied to other Chinese currencies in circulation, provincial notes but that shit wasn't their problem.

"We should look at is as a good thing. Now yes in an ideal world we would be able to buy all sorts of arms that the Europeans, and the states are so hastily divesting themselves of but we should look at this as a nest egg. We sit on it."

There were rumblings of mild agreement. On its face the proposal there was nothing wrong with the idea, but at the same time there was a general acceptance that money that capital was also better spent in sound investments than just accruing interest... on the other hand that was the key word sound.

That ultimately brought forward issues of establishing fiduciary duties, and rules to govern banks in order to determine eligibility and classifications... which presented other problems. The banking commission might be entitled to advice on such rules... but the real argument to be had was was this a matter for the cadre whose membership had limited banking experience to determine... or if it should be a matter of regulation that was warranted to wait until after the election of a lower chamber of law makers and thereby have a bill ratified by a bicameral consent.

JP's proxy, and Griswold both felt that they should just get on with it. Waite, and Dawes formed the anchor suggesting that they wait until after the house had been elected and seated... in other words waiting until the new year ... and then there were the people who wanted the cadre to draft recommendations but to then hear what the representatives had to say on it.

That however the was issue. The nest egg to borrow the term just used provided the cadre explicitly with a large reserve of gold on top of the existing foreign currency reserve from the war... a war that Dawes had always had been adamant was only in half time. "So we sit on three hundred tons of gold?" It wasn't really a question.

The implication was more about the value of that much gold. "We could issue currency."

"No." Dawes snapped at the younger man who'd made the suggestion. "If anything that's the probably the one thing where don't have enough gold to bother with." He said after a minute, but the younger man wasn't having it.

"and how do you figure that?"

"cause the states aren't sitting on double what we are, more like ten times where we sit." Dawes replied.

"More actually," Griswold added in edgewise, "I think I heard something about expecting to have three billion dollars in gold, and I reckon that he's right. Yes the provinces historically have issued their own currencies, but to be honest I think that's a problem, not a strength. Then, on top of that the Customs Dollar is silver backed, we start issuing goldbacked notes, and I don't care if Zhang up north does it, its not the same thing, I just don't think its a good idea..."

"Expanding the gold reserve probably isn't the worst idea either," Dawes added.

Hodges sat back in his chair, which creaked slightly "I can look after that," The heavier set man remarked, "But I think with any kind of mining we do need to be allocating for heavier machinery, if we don't want to spend the gold right now, then we should probably spend pounds where we can." Officially the remuneration to Peking that Duan had agreed to was in the Pound, but they weren't real worried there... the British appetite during the war had consumed vast quantities of money and while worries about inflation were going to be well founded it was just as much the trade war in Europe that wounded the Brits twice. "Give things a few years and hopefully things will settle out," And the trade wars, and the tariffs they entailed would fall by the wayside, that was the hope anyway... but that would prove to largely be misplaced optimism.

They didn't know that, and frankly part of that was to be the financial conditions in Europe being too large to really expect... there would be still some market for export but not a return to the Free Trade years of Wilson's early presidency. That was a pity by the Cadre's understanding of things... of how things in an ideal world would be. "Capital for labor saving machinery shouldn't be an issue," Dawes agreed, especially that jack hammers and tractors to pull freight were all something of a no brainer, and obvious. "I suppose really if you think something can b e done in Tibet, we will have to expand the rail head at Lhasa."

"We're already planning to do that, with the moving the Division Headquarters there."

"Right, right," Dawes replied scratching at the hair above his ear. "Yeah, you'll have Shang there I totally forgot about that."

"Since we're gone on to that subject," Waite remarked raising his pen, "From the sound of it we need a sub committee for Tibet." It would officially serve as Hodges's last posting before his retirement, heading that sub unit within the cadre but it did set the ground work in the long term for the work that would staunch the decline of Tibet's population which had fallen to about a half million total... and for the eventual ratification of a version of the provincial constitution... and thus an elected lower house in a few years. There was no hurry for any of that, with a 'small population' by Chinese standards no one present even considered that such a thing should be rushed into. The railhead at Lhasa had only opened after all a few years earlier, the new division, and other works were all even more recent and thus there was no need to rush things.

 

[ATP]

China had silver mines,if i remember correctly.And silver coin would be good,certainly better then dollar.And,they do not live in USA ruled by Fed,they could not kill them for using silver money like they did with JFK.

 

[Imperator Pax]

In the short term the majority of China stays on the silver standard. Zhang tso-lin puts manchuria onto the gold standard in what was an actually very practical very smart reform... which he then proceeded to screw up by insisting on trying to control the rest of China with a much smaller population base and that just proved an endless cycle of perpetual spending and currency devaluation in effect ruinining his new currency's value for pride and ego (cough napoleon moment, or gustaf adolf for that matter)

and of course more recently Bryan (the S0S at the beginning of the story for the US was a big proponent of the silver standard so it isn't as if the cadre / the us didn't have proponents of the silver standard, and part of the reason during this period the mexican silver dollar is valuable is because its a silver backed coin that is internationally accepted).

 

[ATP]

In the short term the majority of China stays on the silver standard. Zhang tso-lin puts manchuria onto the gold standard in what was an actually very practical very smart reform... which he then proceeded to screw up by insisting on trying to control the rest of China with a much smaller population base and that just proved an endless cycle of perpetual spending and currency devaluation in effect ruinining his new currency's value for pride and ego (cough napoleon moment, or gustaf adolf for that matter)

and of course more recently Bryan (the S0S at the beginning of the story for the US was a big proponent of the silver standard so it isn't as if the cadre / the us didn't have proponents of the silver standard, and part of the reason during this period the mexican silver dollar is valuable is because its a silver backed coin that is internationally accepted).

Click to shrink...

And they should stay there.Fiat monet ALWAYS lead to destruction.

 

[Imperator Pax]

July 1920
The actual outbreak of hostilities on the fourteenth had come as a shock. Mostly for the actual sudden escalation to maneuvering of troops. Two sides of the beiyang clique starting to shoot at each other was a far cry removed from the usual angry circulars which should have been the end of it. Even the papers who had been happy to circulate those telegrams were surprised and unsure what to make out of it.

It seriously undercut the legitimacy of Duan's position by trying to force his way through a blocking force intending to stop him from reopening the front to the south. This was now about a division within North China, it was now a conflict between northern factions. "This is madness." Dawes observed... which it was.

They had had no business endorsing the telegrams that had gone out under Wu Pei-fu's auspice. Wu had moved the 3rd​ Division of the Beiyang Army and a number of brigades across the province, of Zhili, west to east towards the coast. Their positions determined by the reality of railways, and coordinated by telegraph lines, but all of it was taking place inside of Zhili proper.

The war participation army had come down both sides of the railway and tossed the 3rd​ back probably through a combination of 3rd​ not having expected a fight, and also it couldn't be denied the WPA had better guns and more modern weapons. "Counting, what we know, Cao Kun has rallied nine brigades," from those dujun protesting a reopening of conflict in Honan. The so called anti war faction of the Beiyang clique... the problem was of course with 3rd being pushed back like it had, that raised questions of how prepared the Zhili clique was to actually rally a force to really fight this out.

"What does the legation make out of all of this?"

Allen turned in his seat to look side to side, first to the man who had asked the question, and then down for anyone aiming to answer it. Waite sighed, but Cole drummed his fingers on the table, "You're not going to like it, but from the sound of it, the ministers don't know what to do," And then after a moment's pause, "but Hayashi's boy there," Hayashi's protégé, "has already demanded the legations throw their support behind what Duan is doing... Alston," well the Brit who had replaced John Jordan, "doesn't seem to know how to respond to that."

The legation guards were irrelevant they were too few to seriously swing a battle on this scale, but it was the signaling that was important. "Is there any idea what Crane is thinking?" Allen questioned.

"He's cabled Washington about the fighting north of Tietsin, but bluntly the response from the War department and from Secretary of State Colby," The wet fish who had replaced Lansing, "Is that its not his business, that if westerners aren't involved he should let them settle it between them. Far as we can tell, from Washington it sounds like Colby is afraid of moving without Wilson, and Wilson is himself too ill to manage anything on the matter." and of course while it bore little focus at this meeting the truth was that Bainbridge Colby was more focused on politics at home than he was regarding foreign policy.

"Then they won't do anything." Someone remarked, "As it is Cao Kun, and Duan fighting, all of this is what fifty miles from Peking?"

"Closer to sixty if we reckon the fighting around Tietsin," Another man remarked, and then he shrugged disregarding the point in favor of announcing that, "Its effectively next door."

A glance was thrown towards Waite who had stood up and walked towards the map, "Wu will most likely fall back the western troops to Baoting, that's just geography, what he does from there who knows. What I don't imagine will happen is a pressing down the line, attacking the academy from the north would tricky and thats not doubt where the headquarters will be..." and never mind the tactical question, there would be social repercussions if Duan had to storm the school since so many Beiyang officers had attended it... "We'll have to wait and see what happens."

Were they gonna take a step back, talk about it. Would there be international arbitration, Alston would probably try and go that route but if he was flabbergasted he'd need to find his sea legs quickly if things didn't calm down.

Allen sighed, "Tell me about the situation in Tietsin?"

"Well you aint' gonna like that either," Waite grumbled turning away from the war room map of Northern China, rifling around for tacks and string. "We have idiots going to and strolling around from the concession gawking at the fighting, you'd think they would have stopped that after the war in Europe, but it is what it is. The north china herald is taking the statements and making the rounds... and I expect that we will start seeing stupid hot takes reach the southern papers if they haven't already started rolling off the presses."

Duan was unpopular; there was no reason to pretend otherwise. This wasn't going to help. Shanghai would probably therefore voice support for Cao Kun, which was never you mind but there were going to be issues all the same. "Zhang Tso-lin is in talks with Cao Kun."

And that was to be the other shoe, and for the legation looking in that must have come as a surprise to some. Duan had been swing his dick all around, and ultimately Zhang and Duan had different cliques, Japanese ones, supporting them. One side thought Duan was doing the right thing, the other one was supporting Zhang for their reasons. Zhang was tired of Duan, but at this point, "Anything?"

"They're just talking for now, but Zhang has agreed in principle to Wu's telegram." That wasn't news, per se, they had known about that two days earlier before the actual shooting had started... but then again no one had expected the stupid telegram to result in actual shooting.

--
Notes: This officially signals the break of the Beiyang clique, as a whole, and also marks the begining of the roughly week long (or just over) Anhui Zhili war, and this is important also because in two years Zhili (the clique) will throw down with their previous ally the Fengtien and further compromise northern solidarity

 

[ATP]

According to what i read,Wilson was partially crippled and tried to hide it,like FDR later,,so USA would do notching as long as he is still president.

 

[Imperator Pax]

According to what i read,Wilson was partially crippled and tried to hide it,like FDR later,,so USA would do notching as long as he is still president.

Click to shrink...

Oh for sure Wilson was very crippled by his stroke, his wife was basically doing his job and her arguments with Lansing are ultimately what lead to Lansing getting asked to resign. Wilson was in point of fact much worse physically than FDR was because he was at least mostly capable of carrying on a conversation but Wilson was not able to articulate to the senate really after the stroke,

whats funny (not haha funny) is that Wilson had if had lost the 1916 election had planned to resign but he didn't resign after being crippled and then attempted to hold on to power and was basically cloistered away from everyone beyond Edith and his personnel physician for prolonged periods of time

 

[ATP]

Oh for sure Wilson was very crippled by his stroke, his wife was basically doing his job and her arguments with Lansing are ultimately what lead to Lansing getting asked to resign. Wilson was in point of fact much worse physically than FDR was because he was at least mostly capable of carrying on a conversation but Wilson was not able to articulate to the senate really after the stroke,

whats funny (not haha funny) is that Wilson had if had lost the 1916 election had planned to resign but he didn't resign after being crippled and then attempted to hold on to power and was basically cloistered away from everyone beyond Edith and his personnel physician for prolonged periods of time

Click to shrink...

Then,your China could not think about USA actions as long as Wilson is president.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Then,your China could not think about USA actions as long as Wilson is president.

Click to shrink...

Here its more Wilson in the present perspective just looks limp wristed, they know that he'd bed ridden (everyone knew he was sick) they just didn't know it was that bad so its a reiteration that Wilson's mostly hot air and can't actually do anything about the Senate, but also the next election cycle has already started US elections for 1920 are rapidly approaching and neither of the candidates are great candidates

 

[ATP]

Here its more Wilson in the present perspective just looks limp wristed, they know that he'd bed ridden (everyone knew he was sick) they just didn't know it was that bad so its a reiteration that Wilson's mostly hot air and can't actually do anything about the Senate, but also the next election cycle has already started US elections for 1920 are rapidly approaching and neither of the candidates are great candidates

Click to shrink...

Bad for USA,but good for your China.

 

[Imperator Pax]

July 1920
The cadre committee on the army... it was officially the army was responsible for the budget, and discussions that impacted all manner of other factors involved towards the recommendations and policies which shaped Xian's fighting force. Europe was hastily slashing military spending, but they wouldn't be doing that... but on the other hand they also would not be rapidly expanding expenditures either.

Cadre policy as a collective whole had capped the Army's active divisions at five, allowed for another five divisions in the reserve... and while not official in that it was not de jure, the expected force strength paper strength for all divisions and brigades was something on the order of a quarter of a million men.

That was out of an estimated population, assuming the tentative census numbers were something approaching accurate somewhere between 45 and 50 million people with Xian proper being about two and a half million permanent residents. Something along the lines of about one in five people lived in an urban residence, and that was expected to increase as electrification of towns increased and the commiserate growth of government bureaucracy... which was where the army reentered the picture.

Electrification was necessary for factories, and in particular the manufacture of automobiles, but also the matter of tractors, which impact the rural countryside. The ETS, experimental technical section, was another example of its like... in this case another experiment with motorization which had been piddling about since April.

Today's exercise was somewhat more excitable in part due to the fighting in the east. The telegrams from this morning put ... placed that combined the two feuding, or three one supposed with Zhang looking to be moving south now, at over a hundred thousand men. "SO tell me about it?"

"The engine block is cast iron," Waite replied. The things wheels were larger than a pavesi, and it was like tractors were tending pretty tall besides that, "Otto put that suspension of his on it, we will see how that works, and then we will see about slanting things." He meant armor. "Its gonna be heavier than our unarmored fords but you know god willing it'll be less trouble on the axles since its supposed to be designed for the weight."

As it was four of the lumbering machines were pushing thirty, those big tractor style tires were letting them better navigate the mud of the exercise. Their machines guns were belt and enclosed in protected semi turrets up top. That meant there was the turnover risk, but assuming that these things or frankly so development incremental production version went to manufacture in two to four years these armored cars were meant for the North china plain and probably for first division. "I see these ones have trailer hitches."

"We loose some speed for carrying, but yeah, those big wheels definitely help for rough terrain. They're not as good as well as a holt on rough terrain, but they mess the road up a lot less."

"And how do the men like them?"

Waite sucked a breath in, "Getting in and out is pain with a rifle, that's the biggest complaint I've heard, but we're putting them through the paces and well we ain't broke anything yet... but like I'm hoping the strain on the axles from the weight won't be as bad as the Ford's."

"And on the weight?"

"Truthfully, I want to pair the machine gun up top with an alternate feed, but we ain't done that yet." He shrugged. "There are some other things, but you'll see all that when my report enters the record... I think its got promise, Otto meant for those independent arm bar suspension for racing, but shit its a good system, once we get engine production up I think this sort of thing has promise. The other thing is this is four big tires, we're looking at more well normal sized tires, and some other things, Griswold got that one, and they're a bit faster on the road, but Cole thinks this could ford water pretty well."

That would have utility. "What happens if something gets stuck?"

"Well, right now we just use a holt with a winch up front, but theoretically we could put a winch on the front end and they could pull each other out of the ditch. Holt makes a good tractor, and frankly if we had to we have some other options."

The truth was the cadre's rail side affairs put emphasis on manufacturing certain designs, and of course... situation being what it was, "Iseburo put an order of Mikado in," 2-8-2 for wide gauge, "Which we can actually fill." They were finally caught up on engine production, at least they would be by the start of the new fiscal year... which was a relief, "A dozen engines for the line up to Irkutsk."

"That won't start a problem with Hayashi will it?"

He shrugged, "No they're making him London's problem," He had been recalled back at the end of May to Tokyo, "I'll be glad for it, his boy on the Manchurian line won't start something with Iseburo... and frankly he has the good sense not to lock horns over tractors."

Waite nodded, "I know we don't have a direct connection with Irkutsk so I wasn't sure." The Bolsehviks have taken omsk, but the British had been pretty adamant that while they might consider [talking with] the soviets they also considered the border conditions as they sat to be fixed now. Lloyd George's foreign secretary, and MacKinder had said as much... but most likely the reason that Lenin weren't trying anything was they didn't have the manpower or the materiel to fight on two fronts. "So what's he expecting?"

"Trade mostly, I know he wants to be able to move goods but also that the command is separate from the Kwantung Army Command... which that has ruffled some feathers," But Iseburo was vastly less willing to tolerate adventurism and talk of adventuring from junior officers when he was around, and since he was physically present on the ground in Siberia he could make majors and colonels do what he wanted of them... and they were less likely to brook since he had forced the red cavalry into a killing ground and stacked them at the lake. It was probably vitally needed credibility since he hadn't served in the army as a young man. "If he can get things up an running well that will be good, Sakhalin island has some oil, but how well that can be exploited ... that's gonna take some doing, but they're talking about floating a tender for exploratory drilling."

The problem with that went back to the issues of England. MacKinder had outlined that the bolsheviks needed to be stopped, the British refused to commit to the kind of force necessary to overthrow Lenin... and frankly the opportunity where that was possible had probably passed. The government in Tokyo likewise refused to commit to a military campaign without an American commitment the idea being a great triple alliance, which of course Washington wouldn't commit to ... so the next best thing was to solidify the boundaries. To secure the 'world island' as MacKinder called it by locking the Bolsheviks in the interior and denying them a pacific port, or of course any ability to threaten India; he was an englishman after all. His next proposal was the necessity of trade relations between the most important in this context British allies, and securing a coalition that could be strong enough that the Bolsheviks wouldn't attack at all.

It was optimistic but it fundamentally relied on how trade had been done in 1913... and things had changed. 'Trying to get things back to normal'.

 

[ATP]

Considering that Japan here was not kicked out of Siberia,they could have no reasons to go at war - it was partially provoked by USA in OTL where they do not have place to build.Now,they have such place.Even if they take Manchuria,they still should not start war here.
Or go for soviets in 1941.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Considering that Japan here was not kicked out of Siberia,they could have no reasons to go at war - it was partially provoked by USA in OTL where they do not have place to build.Now,they have such place.Even if they take Manchuria,they still should not start war here.
Or go for soviets in 1941.

Click to shrink...

The problem is that the Japanese economically dependent on the US for war materials necessary for expansion, and that most of the people making decisions were from young officer cliques in whose entire plan was 'Russo-Japanese war 2.0' without understanding why that plan had been successful.

Now that being said, I don't think with Japan was unavoidable, Japan had internal off ramps, but the leadership basically talked themselves in the war. If the Pro-US, Anglo-AMerican wing of the army gets power if Iesato, or frankly some of the other anglophile Tokugawas survive longer than historically or if frankly the Kwantung army leadership actually got sent to prison for their shenanigans Pearl probably never happens. Indonesia probably still gets invaded, and maybe Indochina (iesato dying in 40 is the only reason the militarists were able to get ratification of the Axis pact, which of course Hitler then proceeded to upset tokyo with not telling them about barbarossa).

Here, the pacific war happens much like IRL, yes. Why? Because without Pearl the US doesn't enter the European war. Hitler declaring war in support of japan (even though he wasn't legally obligated to do so, Japan was the belligerent power) gave FDR the legal, and political capital necessary to enter the war in Europe and discretion to pursue a Germany First strategy with Great Britain. Roosevelt cannot readily maneuver the US into war even though he had been attempting to bait Japan into giving him a cassus belli he could use (and an even more aggressive feasure of that was used with the Coast Guard and Navy feeding German Uboat data to the RN and in one case outright ramming a Uboat) so by '42 the US goes into the war on schedule with Pearl, but without it Japan either waits (again Yamamoto favored naval arms control treaties and the ratio because that benefitted the Japanese military situation and economy)

With Barbarossa Japan invading the Soviet Union has the issue of logistics the rebuilding and expansion of the Trans Siberian here , in this timeline, only really goes to Omsk, the USSR has lost the central Asian republics and eastern Siberia, it doesn't have a pacific port, but on the flip side that leaves Japan responsible for investment spending there and also means a larger influx of koreans and ethnic japanese but it also makes the Kwantung Army Officers look bad or at least makes them feel less prestigious without addressing the issue of Tokyo GHQ having less control over them.

So yes its not improbable to derail the pacific war by changes in Japan's up and comers but the butterfly effects internationally would have massive knock on effects globally.

 

[ATP]

The problem is that the Japanese economically dependent on the US for war materials necessary for expansion, and that most of the people making decisions were from young officer cliques in whose entire plan was 'Russo-Japanese war 2.0' without understanding why that plan had been successful.

Now that being said, I don't think with Japan was unavoidable, Japan had internal off ramps, but the leadership basically talked themselves in the war. If the Pro-US, Anglo-AMerican wing of the army gets power if Iesato, or frankly some of the other anglophile Tokugawas survive longer than historically or if frankly the Kwantung army leadership actually got sent to prison for their shenanigans Pearl probably never happens. Indonesia probably still gets invaded, and maybe Indochina (iesato dying in 40 is the only reason the militarists were able to get ratification of the Axis pact, which of course Hitler then proceeded to upset tokyo with not telling them about barbarossa).

Here, the pacific war happens much like IRL, yes. Why? Because without Pearl the US doesn't enter the European war. Hitler declaring war in support of japan (even though he wasn't legally obligated to do so, Japan was the belligerent power) gave FDR the legal, and political capital necessary to enter the war in Europe and discretion to pursue a Germany First strategy with Great Britain. Roosevelt cannot readily maneuver the US into war even though he had been attempting to bait Japan into giving him a cassus belli he could use (and an even more aggressive feasure of that was used with the Coast Guard and Navy feeding German Uboat data to the RN and in one case outright ramming a Uboat) so by '42 the US goes into the war on schedule with Pearl, but without it Japan either waits (again Yamamoto favored naval arms control treaties and the ratio because that benefitted the Japanese military situation and economy)

With Barbarossa Japan invading the Soviet Union has the issue of logistics the rebuilding and expansion of the Trans Siberian here , in this timeline, only really goes to Omsk, the USSR has lost the central Asian republics and eastern Siberia, it doesn't have a pacific port, but on the flip side that leaves Japan responsible for investment spending there and also means a larger influx of koreans and ethnic japanese but it also makes the Kwantung Army Officers look bad or at least makes them feel less prestigious without addressing the issue of Tokyo GHQ having less control over them.

So yes its not improbable to derail the pacific war by changes in Japan's up and comers but the butterfly effects internationally would have massive knock on effects globally.

Click to shrink...

FDR wanted to provoke war with germans anyway - and Hitler do not mind fighting USA,too.Without Pearl,war would still happen.But - it is your story,you could introduce what suit you.
Speaking about it - i read stories from Siberia about almas - something like lesser Bigfoot.Since many hunters mentioned them,they probably exist,and you could use them.
Another potentially useful thing- Gate to Adharta,underground city of demons in Tibet,was supposed to be found by some dudes - so,you could it real here,too.