Pax's Alternate History Snippet repository.

[ATP]

Well,Kirgiz here could hold till 1939,but what later?
And about Famines - soviets did it later on purpose,to kill farmers who do not agree to be their slaves.
As a result surviving peasants could not made enough food in kolchoz till soviets fell - but soviets leaders never cared.They always eat luxury food after all.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Well,Kirgiz here could hold till 1939,but what later?
And about Famines - soviets did it later on purpose,to kill farmers who do not agree to be their slaves.
As a result surviving peasants could not made enough food in kolchoz till soviets fell - but soviets leaders never cared.They always eat luxury food after all.

Click to shrink...

Kirghiz basically survives because Stalin prioritizes finland because of its proximity to St Peterburg which... goes poorly because geography and the poor state of the red army, bluntly the Red Army is just not in a position to sustain a distance campaign even in the late thirties thats a combination of just terrible logistics and also the damage from the purge

After that, after Finland, Hitler's invasion means the soviets don't have resources to put towards their eastern front by the time those resources (again the USSR here, doesn't have eastern'maritime siberia, or central asia) to think about that kind of adventurism the war in 45 is basically over and china can basically afford to park the majority of its army along the central asian border (and thats also part of why when the Asian Marshal plan and Pacific equivalent to NATO includes Kirghiz because China insists that central asia has to be covered by the treaty because its right on the border).


The reason Hoover pulled the plug historically is Lenin started approving grain exports out of hte soviet union for hard currency to buy machines and in general the soviet apparatchnik in lenin's time also got in the way of relief efforts which will be touched on. The degree of callousness and delusional writing that comes from the soviet agencies of the time is pretty massive [In this timeline the reason Kirghiz is not more vulnerable to this is because it has foreign capital and a southern railway the soviets don't have the resources to prosecute a war and by the time the later thirties roll around its still a long way from central asia when most of the built up railway network is in the western / European side USSR]

 

[Imperator Pax]

September 1922
His desk was as usual crowded with documents, including those that pertained to the material preparations that could be expected of Central Asia, but they were not what occupied his attention at the moment. Even if there had been shooting conflicts ongoing his work would have required documentation, and records of movement of goods. Shang had sent up a series of papers, hand picked papers, from young Staff Officers which had been about the highlight of his morning. Hodges while here was still nominally the commander of the 8th​ Division since Shang was currently on temporary duty during the course of summer drill. That meant he was handling the up and coming staff officers while most of the cadre, Hodges included who was only here temporarily for the conference, were looking forward to the election campaigns. He suspected Waite had commissioned the placards that had gone up to encourage 'Success'. Cullen's printing presses were even more obviously his handiwork even without taking note of the gendarmes who festooned their bullpens and working spaces with them voluntarily. Cole had the advantage of being able to spend far more time with his most junior men. Mostly because the lowest rank of gendarmes troopers, the privates, were expected to be lawmen. Their patrols took them into the community regularly and without necessarily expectation of direct action.

A part of Allen envied that closeness that Cole could maintain with his most junior men. The cynical part of his thinking recognized that even Cole wouldn't be able to keep it forever that way. The gendarmes were being expanded... not as fast as the regular army, but it was becoming bigger and like all the others Cole could only be in one place at a time. The training of gendarmes for privates entailed more than the Infantry School that had been the norm up until quite recently.

The training was a talking point with the cadre. It had been a longstanding talking point. For the army was a professional institution, one drawn of volunteers. Even though they had not... except very recently discussed a cavalry, there had been red legs, and engineers, and signals men.

But the cadre had so much to do, not all of them could be focused on the profession of arms. The margins for the railway had been fair in 1914. Western Zhili had made enough in freight even that they could stomached a British style subsidized passenger carry... not that Yuan Shikai would have considered that. Not when most of that freight was coal, which then at that point had gone to selling for cooking and heating purposes.

The war in Europe had meant more demand, and had expedited electrification. It had pushed them to expand. Forty plus percent of the cadre held active military commissions in the army, that rose to over seventy men being involved in uniform for the body with the reserves... and there were a couple of seats that in the new year would need to be filled.

... and would certainly be filled by officers, but they would wait for that until after elections of the lower house.

The present quorum though was insistent that now that the war in Europe was over it was time to take advantage of mid western grain, Kansas and Nebraska and the like, to pad what they could as a guard against famine Corn, and wheat could be stored and kept on hand just in case. There were other reports.

The previous year the Food and Drug Administration, theirs not the states back home, had finished standing up and had issued their recommendations for marking and labelling food. That had been a long time coming. It was something of a point of contention. Food hygiene, and slaughtering of stock for meat... well there had been talks, but also there was the public to consider. Local farmers markets were one thing, but well the states had enacted prohibition but their own food and drug administration had more reason to check the labels and standards for alcohol.

Alcohol was legal, but it was going to be taxed. Tobacco as well. Allen expected the latter though to potentially get complaints from Tietsin, or the consul in Shanghai, but it might not. The British ambassador, never mind his American counterpart would very likely side with them, and it was always possible that the consul of the day would be too taken with moralizing to stand complaints over such taxes by tobacco.

It was equally possible the anglo-american tobacco consortium which grew tobacco in China would keep their mouths shut because they wouldn't want to risk it for their own reasons. Those being that, if they started an argument the Cadre could shut them out entirely, the public might boycott them anyway, and that the Cadre could always adjust the rates for the rail that the tobacco company used to ship across the silk road into Kirghiz That was the advantage of holding a transportation monopoly.

There certainly wasn't going to be a fight this close to the elections... not with the Anglo-American legation in Tietsin enthusiastically voicing support for the voting coming. Shurman thought they were doing well enough, and his cables to Harding were favorable in part because he'd done his stint in the Philippines while most of the Cadre had been in uniform. The man might not have known all the men personally during those days, but he seemed to appreciate that they were on the right track.

Even with the support of both ambassadors it was too late, Allen thought for the rest of China to go to the polls and stock the Federal Legislature here... and that was going to b e a problem. Because, frankly their representatives were pushing for it, and were not happy with the chatter in Peking. Cao Kun was trying to build a consensus, talk about the constitution and this and that, but what it was really doing was showing that the constitution wasn't really how things were run.

It was the dickering and attempts to horse trade instead of fighting bandits. It was the shooting different branches of the beiyang kept getting themselves into, and then when they weren't doing that it was the fighting in Honan. These were all things that made his days more complicated than they otherwise might have been.

Cole was a few minutes earlier than he'd been expected, but not unusually so. The steel documents he passed over were a little unusual. "I'm aware that stepping down production from the war time peak has been a talking point." He commented paging through the documents, before reaching another series of war production documents related to quality control, as well as security deposits for the hand over of goods. "But I assume this has something else to do as well."

"We don't have a port. There is no rail line," No direct rail line to the city, "to Shanghai, but we do bring stuff in, from overseas and we always have but that's been a real shake up over the years." He gestured to still other figures in the table. "Bert has long complained that there is a problem where some of the things that get ordered are stolen on the docks, which don't get me wrong everyone has that problem." and they expected to have that problem in Kirghiz

But it had been a big enough concern with regards to shipping goods to the entente, to England and to Russia with the brits as bursar that when they had started loading goods on to skids for shipping they had insisted that the brits were responsible for approving the goods on site and taking possession and handling shipping. It wasn't just concern over theft, they had no boats to carry them over the water, "We'd already been using pallets to move things around the factories," Especially as the arsenals had been manufacturing more guns, but it had made sense for cloth goods as well... cotton textiles had used them in the states before they'd entered the academy. Then it had only been a matter of time before an engine had been attached to a lifting machine for the pallets, "I assume that your suggestion be related."

He produced a draft of a sheet steel box, "It would require cranes, but we can put these on flat bed train cars, they're shut up so you can't easily steal out of him, and they're steel obvious its not impossible for something to get broke inside but it makes it a hell of a lot less likely."

"What are the drawbacks?"

"The lifting, we can't go any bigger than this container for want of infrastructure. If we try and ship this it'd be too big for the apes in the dockyards to move." Hence his comment on requiring cranes, "Powell wants to get into buying surplus vessels from the shipping board," which would allow the MAK to run US flagged ships but otherwise permit preferential carrying and alleviate one of the great problems the cadre had in selling goods abroad. "These containers can be put on a rail car, we'd have to talk to him though about actually using them, but if he's serious about over the seas trade and ports we could secure both ends of our arrangement."

"Do you think he'll bite?"

"If he's serious about this talk in Liberia, even if he's not packing coffee in one of these would bean easy thing. If we had enough of them."

There were economies of scale in steel manufacturing. Due to the European war's demand for steel larger producers had been able to build up immense cost saving measures which coupled with high panicking high prices of 1917 and 1918 especially for Pig Iron but mild steels and other bulk metal products they'd profited handsomely. After the armistice they had had to step down production, but costs actually increased per unit as the market had moved to peace time levels. "I understand that, but production of this will take time."

"Railways first, ships, trucks later." But with Trucks, that was where the deal with Ford cam in.

"If you can get the MAK to go along with it, we can talk about it next year. With working examples Cole, for peace and war applications." The fighting between Fengtien and Zhili had involved lots of shells.
--
Notes: This has been alluded to as forthcoming, we are talking about a precursor to intermodal containers here, because all of the technology for such existed before McClean put it into practice in the early cold war to the point that I really think that part of the resistance was most likely union related for dockworkers, and the infrastructure limitations ofWW1 followed by the great depression before the war.

Its a standard shaped metal box with doors, you just need to build enough of them, and again here, these are smaller than a standard modern shipping container because of those limitations (the idea behind these containers is that they're probably shorter) but again its a standard industrial steel box. Its we know the docks are bad about getting sticky fingers or longshoremen break things because they're drunk on the job (again at work alcoholism pervasive problem).

 

[ATP]

"Railways first, ships, trucks later." - very good idea,and Ford would indeed deliver good trucks.
Pity that Poland do not made such deal - but sadly till 1926 we were France clients,and after that ruled by ignorants who do not undarstandt why trucks could be need.
You would not have such problems in China.

Alcochol and tobacco legal - good,you do not need mafia ruling half of your country.Food hygiene,thought...i wish you luck in introducing that to China.Even commies failed to do so.

 

[Imperator Pax]

September 1922
Allen put the first report of the morning report aside. A part of him considered complaining about the hour, but there was daylight in the sky at least. The company farms were doing well. The war had disrupted bringing in men from Aggie and from Iowa State College A&M and the other land grant colleges in the states which worked in those. But the war being over also meant the deal with Ford was signed and on delivery now, that meant Edsel's tractors were more available. "At least no one will starve for this." Edsel engine for his tractors was apparently very impressive as such metrics went. 4 Cylinder Diesel, liquid cooled. In short while the cadre hoped to construct a larger heavier tractor...talks of V8 and V12 designs to support the farms were already making the rounds.

"Conservatism back home" he meant on the farm, "should have warned us, that we were going to get push back." Carter stated with a shrug, that was half a stretch and almost a yawn. "But at least some of them are willing to try Edsel's tractor since they've seen our tractors before them." But not in the numbers that they had expected.

Still that was alright, "We were on the hook for buying a certain number of them from Ford as part of the deal to build the factory," and to show them how to do what Ford did best. Ford did seem to honestly believe that by helping them he was helping to build world peace... Allen thought he was naïve there, but it meant also that Ford was prepared to defend them in the arena back home. Even if Ford had been masquerading behind cynical motivations his advocacy was there, and that helped them. "It is unfortunate Carter, but we can't force them to mechanize."

"It'll put us potentially behind targets."

"Then we'll be behind." He replied, "Ford seems foolhardily insistent on selling tractors to the Bolsheviks." Of course Ford also was looking at their famine and insisting that if they would accept help then famines would be no more, "I don't like it, i don't have to like it, and I think optimism is misplaced, but we can do," Allen yawned, resisting the urge to curse Carter for the contagion, "nothing about it. We're also not infallible, corn needs a lot of rainfall or a lot of irrigation, if wheat is what the climate supports, then that can be mechanized down the road." It was a question of time so far as he saw. Ford had been talking about a lab down in Georgia for tractors... they had already begun partnering the company's farms with the land grant colleges the cadre had built over here. "The example I think will eventually win out," but if they started to force farmers there was going to b e resistance, and they couldn't subsidize too heavily. Roads , road building was going to be coupled with commitments to public safety who help farmers bring goods to market, and that would hopefully win over support. "How long have you been up on this Carter, didn't you sleep?"

Carter shook his head, reached for his coffee and took a pull from the drink, "I thought it was important when it came in." The way the cadre tended to do these things was to conduct surveys of local issues... to identify problems. This was a program that was being pushed down to being carried out by county, and municipal offices that were tabulated into reports that were handled... frankly in the vein of civil service, and military intelligence reports studied and pushed on to the appropriate desks. "Pork, Sheep, cattle." Carter had made to the Philippines only after the rinderpest epidemic had decimated the cattle herds there, that had contributed to the famine of 1901... and that experience had helped to shape the Cadre policy for food relief efforts. It was why ties with A&M colleges back home was so important. They had been young lieutenants then, pushed to the frontier as congress had panicked. That was another lesson young men had learned... that the old men back home on their laurels lacked the nerve, or steady hands. That lesson though had been tempered as youthful exuberance had been shown the world as it was, not as they might have liked it to be. "Local farmers markets are going to be our best option. Encourage people to sell locally, congregate more, might encourage mechanization, but it will encourage them to use the roads more." Roads and trucks were going to be more useful to rural farmsteads than the electrical interurban lines coming online, and those roads also allowed troops easier movement through the countryside which in the south made it easier for the army to respond to concerns over szechwanese border incursions.

That was the other detail in the report Carter had put in front of him that Allen had noticed, the report was largely limited to surveys conducted south of Xian, confined to the province of Shensi. "Has Yan done one of these for Shansi, Bill for Qinghai?"

"I dunno," Carter replied, "I can ask."

"Ask Hodges for Tibet as well." He replied, "I know he's busy, but we'll try and put this on the calendar for next month," Allen glanced at the hands of the clock, "Come on 1st​ Regiment has expectations for morning drill, and I'll need coffee for that morning run." He declared

Two hours later 1st​ Regiment fighting strength had moved to the assembled rifle range. It was a sight, for it underscored so much that had changed in a decade. Carter made the observation that they were going to have to make changes to helmets. The beiyang army had largely used soft cover caps... there had been decorative helmets for cavalry and talk of the picklehaube by Yuan Shikai but it had never amounted to much.

Carter's issue was that the Stahhelm what had replaced the picklehaube was not just a matter of price per unit, though that did bear in mind, it was also the weight. The Model 1920 Helmet followed the pot's lines but had been built metallurgically with manganese alloy that didn't need heated dies and could be cast in one piece. That had helped, but it was still heavy. "We need a better winter lining as well, and cover, but its still heavy."

The helmet replacement was aiming for an alloy helmet that was under three pounds by making it high cut. The truth was principle protection was to be against splinters and shrapnel. It was however yet another move away from the appearance ofthe old Beiyang army. Beiyang as it had been at the downfall of the Qing had placed an emphasis on the flashiness of its cavalry. No real surprise not only were officers expected to provide their own uniform, but cavalry men were paid more than poor bloody infantryman... and at least while Yuan had been alive that pay had been regular. Xian though had never adopted a cavalry boot, the closest they had come had been a variation of the Davis boot that hadn't won the competition. Riding boots were popular style considerations in Japan's army as well, but Xian placed a premium on foot mobility and long rucks that even officers in the gendarmes had supported the new pattern supported lacing.

Epaulets had never been present on Xian uniforms, and austrian knots for those entitled to them were restricted to dress uniforms only, and were optional. That variation of the davis boot was an option for dress uniforms for those men who wanted to privately purchase them because they were comfortable, and sharp looking.

"Tenth Division will be at strength by next summer." Carter observed, which was generally considered to be a relief. The lower house had written up once it was clear the fighting around Peking was done with that they were already considering opening discussions on army expansion... part of that was that rallying around the flag and public concern. The men talking sternly on defense and the offensive 'northern expedition' the south had mounted had lead to last minute campaign rallies as election day was but a month and change away.
--
Notes: We note here, and also in the following September section about equipment, Xian doesn't have conscription so standing up standard divisions is not done in a rapid fashion. Xian could go faster, but it chooses not to largely for fiscal and materiel reasons. Xian's 10th​ Division comes online, at strength, in '23, with 9th​ Division at strength by this point in the timeline... and this has effects on how the second and third congresses handle military / defense planning and spending. This will have an effect when the 4th​ congress comes into session especially after the Northern Expedition (the one under Chiang) but also due to other political shifts. The elections in 28 are strongly driven by the accelerated break down of order of Peking, and the collapse, its also effected by changing social conditions.

But all of that is really effected by1925's events which really can be said to set the ball in motion, and thats part of the reason why the next arc starts in '24 and proceeds from there. This also goes into the big event of 23 that being the fallout of the Lincheng Incident. The fallout is more important than the taking of the Blue Express itself but also by the time 10th division is at strength, well Zhang and Cao Kun are both posturing for their next big moves, and this goes to fiscal responsibility because what gets Zhang in trouble is the amount of money, and the speed at which, he was will to throw it at problems when patience would have benefitted him really more.

 

[ATP]

Good,they do not need more units for now.I read,that one of reasons why polish army was obsolate in 1939 was becouse we keep 30 infrantry divisions during peace/part of battalions were at half strenght,but still/
And it eat most of our military budget.

It is better to have less soldiers,but prepared to create new units quickly.Basically,train many reseervist,but do not keep them in army long.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Good,they do not need more units for now.I read,that one of reasons why polish army was obsolate in 1939 was becouse we keep 30 infrantry divisions during peace/part of battalions were at half strenght,but still/
And it eat most of our military budget.

It is better to have less soldiers,but prepared to create new units quickly.Basically,train many reseervist,but do not keep them in army long.

Click to shrink...

That was basically Yan Xishan's plan in the early 20s with his hundred thousand strong national guard for Shansi, and indeed Poland's problem was not unique its a classical problem. It might seem strange in the modern post cold war peace dividend era but most countries spent too much on their militaries and the military was the largest part of hte budget. This is what ultimately undoes Zhang Tsolin from an economic standpoint Manchuria was agriculturally productive, and industrially well developed but he was repeatedly outpacing his spending became insane trying to assert leadership over the beiyang government in order to become the recognized leader for all of china.

Zhang could (and here, will) basically have gone 'Here is my independence circular, I'm just going to ignore Peking and the parliament' and no one could have anything about because fighting on home soil Fengtian would have stomped Zhili's branch of the beiyang but ZHang repeatedly chose to get involved in costly campaigns and trying to support those campaigns for prestige reasons. THis is why he had problems with Wu, fundamentally Zhang didn't think Wu was a 'real soldier' and that he didn't deserve respect and thus losing in that first conflict because of largely supply issues Zhang doubled down buying hundreds of airplanes in a few years.

 

[ATP]

That was basically Yan Xishan's plan in the early 20s with his hundred thousand strong national guard for Shansi, and indeed Poland's problem was not unique its a classical problem. It might seem strange in the modern post cold war peace dividend era but most countries spent too much on their militaries and the military was the largest part of hte budget. This is what ultimately undoes Zhang Tsolin from an economic standpoint Manchuria was agriculturally productive, and industrially well developed but he was repeatedly outpacing his spending became insane trying to assert leadership over the beiyang government in order to become the recognized leader for all of china.

Zhang could (and here, will) basically have gone 'Here is my independence circular, I'm just going to ignore Peking and the parliament' and no one could have anything about because fighting on home soil Fengtian would have stomped Zhili's branch of the beiyang but ZHang repeatedly chose to get involved in costly campaigns and trying to support those campaigns for prestige reasons. THis is why he had problems with Wu, fundamentally Zhang didn't think Wu was a 'real soldier' and that he didn't deserve respect and thus losing in that first conflict because of largely supply issues Zhang doubled down buying hundreds of airplanes in a few years.

Click to shrink...

Good,but if Japan could not take Manchuria here,how could they attack China at all? becouse it is not easy to do so from Korea alone.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Good,but if Japan could not take Manchuria here,how could they attack China at all? becouse it is not easy to do so from Korea alone.

Click to shrink...

The same way they subverted Korea. Manchuria does eventually break away from Central China, and Zhang Tsolin was something of a manchu supporter , supported if not exuberantly the idea of the dynasty coming back (he doesn't seem to have grasped that that wasn't popular in the south, which given his personal ties to Shanghai, and Sun Yat-sen thats a little strange, but then again Sun had no problem getting into an alliance with Duan Qirui or Zhang Xun, and he saw no issue fleeing to Japan when it was convenient) and after he gets kicked north of the wall again (in 27 28) Zhang decides he's bringing the emperor back in Manchuria wfhich completely abrogates any relationship with Xian and that leads to the three big factions in China and the handful of smaller ones at the end of the decade that in the early thirties leads to Manchukuo in part because by 28 Zhang had completely squandered his economy at least with regards to inflation, taxation monetary reform with Japan coming in much as they did with Joseon Korea with promises of financial reform (which Zhang knew worked he had seen the success of the post ww1 reforms Manchuria had conducted with foreign assistance, and Zhang had always be been pro-japanese) and at that point Zhang also wants to modernize further.

Zhang wasn't in the best of health anyway here in this story he dies of health complications in the early thirties
--
The time frame of events is that had Zhang broken away from beijing earlier there wouldn't have been anything cao kun could have done, frankly I don't think Cao Kun (given his positions during Duan Qirui's tenure) would have tried, and with ANhui clique having no way forward back into power I think Cao Kun would have probably kept a middle of the road course no southern expeditions, no fights with the north but in 26 after excessive military spending on southern adventures Manchuria was not in a good financial position and it was worse after Zhang decided to fight the KMT who he saw as backed by the soviet who he didn't like either and that absolutely wrecked the monetary system which here means that he attempts to rebuild with Japanese help

Japan has its own banking crisis in short order and then not long after that great depression occurs with the stock market crash which creates a perverse incentive for Manchuria to economically get closer to Japan

 

[ATP]

Thanks ! they knew what they were doing,becouse for manchu bigger enemy was China,not Japan.And in OTL they are small minority on their own lands...i hope,that here they would survive - there would be no soviet troops here,after all....

 

[Imperator Pax]

September1922
The fall conference spent a long time discussing many of the things he had spent the week earlier going over in minutiae with Carter. It was not just military equipment, but also the economy. While people took pride in the army the banking apparatus exerted tidal like effects on people's livelihoods... but for most of today it had been looking forward to the army's standard fighting man... or the infantry at large.

The FN Model 1900 caliber 35 Remington, and its beefed up Griswold version in 8mm Mauser were de facto the principle self loading rifles of the army's select units and ranks issued those. Current tabulations said that there were about twenty two thousand 35 Remington guns in service between the Army, the National Guard, and the Gendarmes plus other security forces. The weapons operated from a long recoil system, and Griswold was expecting full conversion to magazine fed versions was approximately ninety percent complete with most of the guns not in magazine conversion form being in the hands of the Railway Police.

The 1900, and Winchester it competed against in the states had been adopted early by the cadre as personal arms since most of the cadre were aficionados of such new developments. In the years before the war in Europe they had also been looking to buy up weapons in packets in order to outfit the then much smaller force of the company soldiery. That had lead to buying the mondragon rifles for which Mexico had been in arrears and to the work on the Lewis gun. All of which supported the notion of fire and maneuver which had been US doctrine since the war between the states

Mondragon and Lewis both favored a gas piston system which seemed to be the way forward in the longer term for using their full power 200 grain 8mm Mauser. The prohibitive recoil of the long recoil system with the service rifle was most keenly felt by smaller men... which was not as significant of a problem given the Qing height requirements for northern Chinese, but it bore consideration all the same. Length of pull for the rifle was another concern, but part of the reason that for example the Winchester 351 had failed out were issues with standardized magazine though that had only been one issue out of several.

That the 35 caliber gun had already been in limited production and in spare parts before that before the8mm version's initial form had come out was another reason for its numbers. The railway men, the Gendarmes and especially 3rd ​Divisions mechanized troops found the shorter length of the 1900 variant useful. 1St​, 2nd​, and 8th​Division all fielded the 35 Caliber gun in more limited numbers with 2nd​ Regiment being the only unit in the Active Guard unit being issued them and that was only a result of its mechanization though some were issued to its artillery component in place of the1920 Model Service Rifle.

For ten years Griswold had been playing with the design, and was of the opinion that while it was now mature there were limits in what they could do with it moving further. There was simply more that went into the production of rifles that were semi automatic, and Griswold acknowledged that improvements with machine tooling and larger orders would bring prices down.

There was a familiar litany of charts which were based on previous year records that showed what they spent on production of rifles, what development was costing and what they could expect. All of which was going to at least go to the lower house at some point because someone had gotten into their head that semi automatic rifles were presently a feasible option for the army.

They weren't. Not for the whole army. Not with what they cost per unit, and not with the logistical burden it would have imposed to sustain the present army size, never mind an expansion.

"We've got twenty thousand Remingtons." the 1900, and its variants "but the majority of those are with Lee and my boys," Cullen remarked, "And they work well for what we need them to," 35 Remington was back home plenty sufficient for hunting bear or elk at reasonable distances, and that was the impediment of the cartridge. For close in work it was great, but it was a carbine ranged weapon, where as Model 1920 bolt action allowed line infantrymen to fire on targets accurately well in excess of those ranges, even if those ranges were unheard of in street to street fighting. "I don't think they would work as well with 9th​ and 10th​divisions... we could try them with 4th​ division, but my understanding is Yan doesn't want to go that route."

The governor of Shansi nodded, "I believe that a mix of full power rifles, and 45 caliber," he paused, "Submachine guns would be the better option. I am prepared to test and evaluate this, once the Lewis work is further along than it is currently."

Griswold was working on a blowback version... Lewis's original machine pistol had been a piston system scaled down to 45 which did work, but was unnecessarily complex for a pistol caliber weapon. Lewis had recognized that after the armistice and started the work but the lack of interest by Britain or the states had diminished his drive to pursue beyond a few early prototypes.

Lewis's work had merit, though with the 45 caliber weapon there were obvious improvements to be made. "So we are in the agreement that we're not there yet? Griswold?"

"Blowback simplifies things greatly, I admit 3rd's problem with freezing the action up, I'll work on that." He stated, "Yan isn't the only one who is interested in this, Powell, has said given conditions over there," In central America, "That there are concerns about obstructions getting into the action, mud and so forth." There was a sudden wash of chatter about armaments in general... or at least the small arms side of it.

There was no surprise there. The past decade had resulted in avid martial focus on rifle skills. There remained a vocal minority within the Army Staff that every man in uniform should be a rifleman and expected to attend the basic course for infantry. That was the cadre, even Yan Xishan who came from a Japanese Army Doctrine background, admitted impractical given the needs of the Army. They needed specialist support troops, the guidelines for that recognized that training for them needed to reflect less direct combat application.

The Army's Education Bureau, now under the command of a Major General, was responsible for overseeing the certification of schooling records both before the Army, and the course of schools attended during service. Civilians and Soldiers alike seemed to take pride in this arrangement as it awarded certifications, and maintained records of when and how highly men scored on practical and academic exams.

Completion, coinciding with the Fall Festival, of their version of the Wimbledon cup with distinction came with recognition. There were restrictions of course, the thousand yard match was open to all civilians, but in the interest of fairness a more grueling course of work was open only to members past or present of Rifle Divisions who could complete the physical standards of their units... this course accompanied an award of a shoulder rocker for dress uniforms and all but guaranteed that the recipient would be asked to take a teaching cadre position in the next rotation of marksmen courses.

Those successful at the course then naturally wrote reports on the successes or failings of the rifles and other implements of the profession. For Xian's martial reading body those who placed at the national match were also treated to consideration of their writings on the merits of particular techniques. Those men largely operated though with full power rifles, or in the pistols matches that ran alongside the majority with the Army standard service pistol.

This committee within the cadre was expect to attend the national match, and observe. Perhaps almost as importantly was the reception and the public facing of the gathering at the fall festival which made them collectively publicly visible.
--
Notes: this is basically a glance into logistics and doctrine for the interwar years... I keep saying at some point I'll actually do a post where it breaks down the Rifle Divisions and possibly their supporting Brigades as Xian to moves to its Army Corp structure but that probably won't happen until the aftermath of the 2nd Zhili Fengtian war and Feng's coup against Cao Kun. That being said Technologically this foreshadows the dvelopment of an Owen type blowback submachine gun in order to not have the actions lock up. It'll just be in 45 caliber not 9mm at this point in time since Xian basically has no major 9x19mm in inventory. [Historically it should be noted that Yan would go on to produce thomspons at Taiyuan and also produced 6.5 Arisaka, as well as a 45 caliber Broomhandle after previous producing an original clone. Here there is no reason for Taiyuan to produce the 6.5 though if it had already been underway the Federov would probably be a better option than the Chauchat that SMB did produce, Vickers are still being produced in 8mm Mauser]

 

[ATP]

Owen gun before WW2 - great idea.
And giving one kind of rifle to one division is good for logistic,at least till you decide to made one rifle for all.
Mandragon - i read,that it do not liked mud,so was not so good for infrantry in China....

 

[Imperator Pax]

Owen gun before WW2 - great idea.
And giving one kind of rifle to one division is good for logistic,at least till you decide to made one rifle for all.
Mandragon - i read,that it do not liked mud,so was not so good for infrantry in China....

Click to shrink...

The mondragon at this point has basically been phased out, it was an interim rifle and one handed out to select troops of an already volunteer force. What makes the mondragon important here is that its a piston operated semi automatic andcan handle full power rifle rounds. Blowback actions are best suited for pistols because of the recoil impulse

This goes directly to late interwar development of Xian's battle rifles, and intermediary cartridge development which is a 6.5 derived from both the Qing Mauser cartridge (Liu wanted to use) and the 30 Remington (magazine geometry considerations) both of which only begin to arrive in numbers late in the 2nd Pacific War