With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
27th October 2012
06:49 GMT +3

As we travel, Canis looks northward, staring at the area of verdant growth and the near-blinding glow at the centre.

"What is that?"

Greenery in the Underworld? Persephone's work, of course. With... An artificial sun to keep it alive? I can't imagine she'd be satisfied with what few plants grow naturally in this shadowy realm.

"Hades wife is a goddess called Persephone. She's the daughter of Demeter and loves living greenery."

"Is she related to your plant goddess?"

Give him a minute, the family tree of the gods is twisting and interconnected in a way that the Summers and Grey families of Marvel only wish they could manage.

"Euanthe would be her aunt. And I don't think that Euanthe is technically a goddess. It's not just a measure of power, it's about how their metaphysique is structured." I frown thoughtfully. "Unless you're telling me otherwise?"

"If a god can be new and not be a New God, I can accept that power does not make a thing a god."

I mean, you only need look at yourself to see that, OL.

"Can they?"

"Can-?" He jerks his head around, frowning. "Yes, of course they can. A New God joins to an aspect of Darkseid's divinity. Old Gods arise directly from the Dream, and their spawn gain their power from much the same place."

~~Well, for Apokaliptian New Gods, anyway. I would assume the New Genesis tradition is a more direct linkage to the Source, as opposed to being fed power via Darkseid's godhead.~~
Edit: Okay, Canis is probably just repeating what he's been told.

After all, why would a God of Tyranny admit that his underling's power flows from a source other than Himself?

"So there's no link?"

"There are some… Vague similarities, but no more so that there would be with some ancient sorcerers. Do you not know her?"

True, there does seem to be some repetitive patterns in naming and themes in some mythos.

"No. For plant life, I'd either go to Euanthe, Swamp Thing or Gaea herself. Do you need to speak with her?"

"I find inspiration in all places. But I have no special need to speak with her. Unless she has some relationship with Zeus we can avoid the place entirely."

So, best leave her be, then.

"She's Zeus's daughter. But… Ah, I don't think they're on good terms."

"Is that not good for us?"

Eh... She's almost as closely tied to the Underworld as Hades is. Closer, if some early myths are to be believed.

"I also don't think she's powerful or influential enough to affect matters one way or the other."

He nods. "Glory to the weak, for in having no strength of their own they shall not be tempted to act aught but the will of Darkseid."

...Riiight...

…

"Yes."

Yeah, that's about the best response anyone could give...

I remember the typical version of the myth from Earth Prime, but Hades doesn't seem like the sort to slip a few pomegranate seed roofies in someone's drink. The Amazon version mentions the seeds, but dwells more on Hades's wickedness in not consulting with or appeasing Demeter. I still don't see how Demeter's response of 'starve the world' could be considered anything other than completely deranged, but I… Don't know if the mythological version is what actually happened. Hade admitted that he's changed a lot since the old days, but I imagine that it's a sore point with him and I haven't wanted to push it.

Probably for the best. Don't want to futz up your working relationship with him. Could make for an awkward session next time you die.

Before us, there's a village coming up. Or possibly a town? Order of service gets a bit confused in situations where the locals don't need to eat and a temple would be redundant. Hekate used to live in a relatively modest home tended by bound shades of those who joined her cult in life. Now… Now they're all bound to Erebos and like its other denizens they aren't 'shades' in the traditional mindless dead sense any longer.

Given Hekate's threat potential and the fact that most Atlanteans are hostile to the idea of gods I haven't felt the need to make contact with her. I wonder-.

I bet more than a few of her followers are taking the chance to get more study in, learning things too dangerous to have worked with in life...

…

Is that a water park?

...Unexpected.

I watch as a woman -an Amazon by the look of her hair and skin- grins with delight as she shoots out of the end of a water slide to the laughter of those already in the plunge pool below.

Okay…

...Seriously, this is like... What even.

Well, I… I imagine that it's all their own work. Erebos is actually well-served with rivers, it's just at the titan's magic tends to give them unpleasant arcane effects. I… Assume that the witches have learned to filter them. Which does leave the question of what's powering the pumps. The slides are made of wood, smooth polished, with metal scaffolding. Nothing plastic or synthetic. I guess that the wood comes from Persephone's woodland, and they… Mine the metal themselves?

...Where did they get the idea, though? New arrivals, speaking of fun things in the world above?

There are swimming pools, some for training and some for more casual swimming. Seven slides of various designs… No rubber rings-. Because no rubber. Wrong continent. A possible avenue for trade? They are wearing swimming costumes, which makes me somewhat more comfortable, styles varying between Victorian to modern. Ages range from-. Another Themyscira flashback, newly adult to mature adult with no children or old people.

"Hey!" A woman in a lifeguard chair points at us as we get closer. "Who ordered concubines!"

Seriously, what is even happening? When did we stumble into the Anime 'Beach Episode' storyline?

Or men.

"I'm sorry, we're not concubines." She moues in pantomimed disappointment, but I see the purple glow-dust that gathers around her left hand. "Could you please point us in the direction of Lady Hekate? It's a bit urgent."

Heh. On her guard already, eh? Is that a new record for OL?

We've attracted the attention of quite a few women, though we're only being watched because we're marginally interesting rather than with any real hostility. When you're already dead, personal safety is much less of a concern. Or maybe they're dog people.

"So you're not concubines, or you've already been hired?"

I'm sure there are one or two more interested in giving Brut all the cuddles a good boy can handle...

"So we're not concubines-"

Canis shrugs his shoulders. "I have no objection to being a concubine, if it aids the mission."

...And that is exactly what I picture Canis thinking is the best option. Certainly, with his godly physique and stamina, he won't leave the ladies wanting.

"-and I need to speak with Lady Hekate on the subject of thaumaturgy and Olympian politics."

We reach her lifeguard chair, Brut taking a sniff at a puddle of water splashed onto the side of the pool. The woman on guard duty straightens up slightly now that's it's apparent that we're here for a serious purpose.

...I wonder if it's chlorinated, or if they're using magic to purify it. Then again, it's not like they'd have issues with shed skin, hair or sweat polluting the water.

"Do you have an offering?"

I raise my left hand and fabricate an inflatable obstacle course, depositing it in the middle of the fun pool.

Well, that's certainly a useful gift.

"Yes. Arcane knowledge, artefacts, and-."

"Hey Paul!" Eris waves as she heads in our direction, wearing a sarong. And nothing else. I bet she was wearing a swimming suit, saw me and then chucked it in the-.

Given everyone else is dressed, I'd say so...

Yes, there it is.

"Eris, good to see you. This will save me time."

I mean, what was his plan to locate her? Standing on a mountain-top yelling into the wind? Making an appearance at her temple?

Burnt offerings of porn and weed?

"Oh?" She raises her eyebrows. "I don't get a 'Lady' Eris?"

"You're not a lady."

And don't you forget it!

"Eh." She looks at Canis for a moment, the appears to dismiss him. "Are you up to something?"

"At the moment we're just gathering information."

Note that he doesn't say about what. Everyone already seems to know what he's talking about... I guess the Olympians like to gossip.

"So 'yes'. You know, I don't think I really committed last time."

"Your help may well be quite useful. Or we might end up resolving things peacefully and-."

Well, there's a good offering: something to make her roll of the floor laughing.

"Bghhahaha!" Eris hunches as she splurts with laughs, the action clearly taking her by surprise. She then reaches up with her right hand and half pat and half slaps me around the face. "'Peacef-. Have you met you?"

"Are you going to take us to Lady Hekate or should I just ignore you?"

...And put some pants on, at least.

"Oh, I'll take you. This feels like something interesting and I wanna get in at the ground level." She lowers her hand, grabbing hold of my robe in a surprisingly strong grip and she turns and pulls me towards the path. "And bring the art student and his poodle. I think this is the start of something funny."

At least until she hears just what he's up to. That would be a turn-up: Something even she wants no part of.

Well, I doubt any of us expected to see that in the Underworld. I guess Hecate has more familiarity with modern culture than some of the Olympians. A pity Canis won't get to stay and entertain the ladies, though. And now I can't wait to see what Hecate's inner sanctum is like. A modern-style bookshop with coffee bar? An internet cafe and gaming lounge? Bring it on!

She looks at Canis for a moment, the appears to dismiss him.

She looks at Canis for a moment, then appears to dismiss him.

AmericanNumbers · Mar 25, 2022

It occurs to me that given the hints that there is something more possibly between Diana and Alan and that Alan is one of Diana's oldest friends at a minimum he might be offended if he's not looped in here. And he might actually be more inclined to give Zeus a kick in the ass or try his best at it.

Darko · Mar 25, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, for Apokaliptian New Gods, anyway. I would assume the New Genesis tradition is a more direct linkage to the Source, as opposed to being fed power via Darkseid's godhead.

I think that's just Apokaliptian propaganda and they're connected to the Source to get their powers, not Darkseid.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I bet more than a few of her followers are taking the chance to get more study in, learning things too dangerous to have worked with in life

Unless they need to be alive for some things.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Where did they get the idea, though? New arrivals, speaking of fun things in the world above?

Or some of the gods got ideas from visiting the Earth.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Seriously, what is even happening? When did we stumble into the Anime 'Beach Episode' storyline

It had to happen sooner or later.

Ngamer11 · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Eh." She looks at Canis for a moment, the appears to dismiss him. "Are you up to something?"

That should say 'then'.

_The_Bomb · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Rewrite?

All that happened is that I improved the spelling and replaced some of the picture links.

As someone who just reread the whole thing (gotta destress from finals somehow), I feel obligated to inform you that there are quite a few more of those that still need fixing.

Mr Zoat · Mar 25, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
She looks at Canis for a moment, then appears to dismiss him.

Thank you, corrected.

Agumentic · Mar 25, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Also, does Canis not know about the New Gods of New Genesis or is he brainwashed to believe they serve Darkseid as well?

I believe that in orthodox Apokalyptian tradition, the Source and Darkseid are considered to be the same thing.

_The_Bomb · Mar 25, 2022

Hell's Razer said:
Ah but here is the question: Can he stomp the Ophidian?
Somehow I have my reservations about it.

If Paul is pissed enough the Ophidian isn't the only card he can play. Mr Zoat, how hard would it be for Paul to convince Hinon to accompany him into combat as a personal favor to him?

I don't know where Paul merged with the Ophidian stacks up power-wise compared to Zeus, but if that's not enough to take him down on its own.….Well, Hinon once told Paul that she was substantially older than most of Earth's gods and that Maltusians were really high on the universal power scale.

I got to admit, I'd love to see Hinon take Zeus down a few pegs. Especially if Ophidian!Paul was fighting along side her. What can I say—I love overkill.

Bud-E · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
He nods. "Glory to the weak, for in having no strength of their own they shall not be tempted to act aught but the will of Darkseid."

…

"Yes."

Canis considers himself a loyal servant of Darkseid right? Does he believe living on earth and helping their heroes stop villains and evil people is helping somehow? Has no one explained to him the morality and beliefs of humans and the Justice League? I know Big Barda threatened him to behave when they met but did she/Scott never consider fully explaining the dominant culture/beliefs?

Ngamer11 · Mar 25, 2022

Bud-E said:
Canis considers himself a loyal servant of Darkseid right? Does he believe living on earth and helping their heroes stop villains and evil people is helping somehow? Has no one explained to him the morality and beliefs of humans and the Justice League? I know Big Barda threatened him to behave when they met but did she/Scott never consider fully explaining the dominant culture/beliefs?

They may have tried. The problem is that unlike Scott and Barda, he doesn't want to change that much.

Darko · Mar 25, 2022

Bud-E said:
Canis considers himself a loyal servant of Darkseid right? Does he believe living on earth and helping their heroes stop villains and evil people is helping somehow? Has no one explained to him the morality and beliefs of humans and the Justice League? I know Big Barda threatened him to behave when they met but did she/Scott never consider fully explaining the dominant culture/beliefs?

Ngamer11 said:
They may have tried. The problem is that unlike Scott and Barda, he doesn't want to change that much.

Heck, he may view helping them as a twisted way to worship Darkseid.

Like say, helping them achieve victory will make them think of themselves as being mightier and when they lose to Darkseid, their despair will be even greater.

Or maybe he thinks that by helping them become stronger then they'll present a better and thus worthier challenge to Darksied.

He may think that Darkseid shouldn't bother with lowly creatures, so he's helping them become something worthier.

WereDragon · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
I still don't see how Demeter's response of 'starve the world' could be considered anything other than completely deranged

Now that is some Tanya-level self-delusion.

"Bghhahaha!" Eris hunches as she splurts with laughs, the action clearly taking her by surprise. She then reaches up with her right hand and half pat and half slaps me around the face. "'Peacef-. Have you met you?"

Contrasted beautifully with a perfect awareness of Paul.

"Glory to the weak, for in having no strength of their own they shall not be tempted to act aught but the will of Darkseid."

And we get a reminder that Canis willingly, even enthusiastically, follows someone infinitely worse than the Nazis ever were. And no one seems to care.

Khettien · Mar 25, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
These should say 'Hecate', as that's the spelling you used before.

Zoat appears to have accepted your correction, but in point of fact Hecate and Hekate are both perfectly acceptable as names for that goddess - this is an artifact of translation from the ancient Greek alphabet, which didn't have the character 'c', instead using k for the hard sound or s for the soft.

Edit: To be clear, I am very far from being an expert on ancient Greek. I've just run into that issue before. It's why the phonetic alphabet for English uses charlie alongside alpha, beta, and delta.

Rafin · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Are you going to take us to Lady Hecate or should I just ignore you?"

Is he sure that Eris is still his patron of choice? Because he is clearly more deferential and respectful to "Lord" Hades.

Darko said:
Yeah, Oceanus and Poseidon are both water gods

A comment on this: The equivalent water entity on the level of Erebos and Tartarus would be Pontus (male) and Thalassa (female). ~~Who is/rules/represents which part of the seas is not clear. But Thalassa is the maternal aunt of Pontus, genealogically speaking.~~

Edit: Actually, who is older and how they are related depends on which genealogy you follow.

Mr Zoat · Mar 25, 2022

Khettien said:
Zoat appears to have accepted your correction, but in point of fact Hecate and Hekate are both perfectly acceptable as names for that goddess - this is an artifact of translation from the ancient Greek alphabet, which didn't have the character 'c', instead using k for the hard sound or s for the soft.

Edit: To be clear, I am very far from being an expert on ancient Greek. I've just run into that issue before. It's why the phonetic alphabet for English uses charlie alongside alpha, beta, and delta.

English could abolish the 'c' and lose absolutely nothing. 'S' and 'k' have us covered perfectly well.

Darko · Mar 25, 2022

Rafin said:
Is he sure that Eris is still his patron of choice? Because he is clearly more deferential and respectful to "Lord" Hades

I don't think Eris minds it all that much.

Mr Zoat said:
English could abolish the 'c' and lose absolutely nothing. 'S' and 'k' have us covered perfectly well.

There's a similar problem in my native language.

We have for letters, but we could only use two of them and it gets confusing getting them right when we're writing.

Bud-E · Mar 25, 2022

WereDragon said:
And we get a reminder that Canis willingly, even enthusiastically, follows someone infinitely worse than the Nazis ever were. And no one seems to care.

Aside from Paul, Big Barda, and Scott no one has any context for what Apkolapyse and the people that live there are actually like. So since Canis isn't a problem for them they just see him as an eccentric artist.

Assblaster5000 · Mar 25, 2022

Bud-E said:
Aside from Paul, Big Barda, and Scott no one has any context for what Apkolapyse and the people that live there are actually like. So since Canis isn't a problem for them they just see him as an eccentric artist.

Way back when (a little after The Forever People came by?) at least some of The League actually did go to Apokolips for... I want to say around a month Earth-time, but even in-universe that was quite awhile ago.

But I'm not sure they'd be too worried about Canis because, New God or otherwise, art doesn't trump Kryptonian. And Earth has a funny way of changing people, so they could be hedging bets on that.

PDV · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
English could abolish the 'c' and lose absolutely nothing. 'S' and 'k' have us covered perfectly well.

We need c for dipthongs and couldn't replace "ch" with "kh" due to transliteration of imported words with extra-voiced consonants like "khaki", Twain notwithstanding. Would have been less of a problem if we didn't assault other languages in dark alleys and rifle through their pockets for loose verbiage.

Could always be worse, though, we could be Gaelic.

Darko · Mar 25, 2022

Assblaster5000 said:
Way back when (a little after The Forever People came by?) at least some of The League actually did go to Apokolips for... I want to say around a month Earth-time, but even in-universe that was quite awhile ago

I think they were gone for just a few hours.

A day at most.

Assblaster5000 said:
But I'm not sure they'd be too worried about Canis because, New God or otherwise, art doesn't trump Kryptonian. And Earth has a funny way of changing people, so they could be hedging bets on that

Yeah, but Canis has been shown as having strength that could rival Kon.

Mr Zoat · Mar 25, 2022

PDV said:
We need c for dipthongs and couldn't replace "ch" with "kh" due to transliteration of imported words with extra-voiced consonants like "khaki", Twain notwithstanding. Would have been less of a problem if we didn't assault other languages in dark alleys and rifle through their pockets for loose verbiage.

Could always be worse, though, we could be Gaelic.

I don't wear thongs, so I'm fine.

NightmareWarden · Mar 25, 2022

I'm disappointed that all of the swimmers seem to be living amazons. Surely the shades of the underworld would appreciate the humor in a "lifeguard," right?

Mr Zoat · Mar 25, 2022

NightmareWarden said:
I'm disappointed that all of the swimmers seem to be living amazons. Surely the shades of the underworld would appreciate the humor in a "lifeguard," right?

Living? Oh no, they're dead.

Impartial Panic · Mar 25, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Also, does Canis not know about the New Gods of New Genesis or is he brainwashed to believe they serve Darkseid as well?

All serve Darkseid, some just need need to have that fact pounded into their skulls a few times.

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, I'll take you. This feels like something interesting and I wanna get in at the ground level." She lowers her hand, grabbing hold of my robe in a surprisingly strong grip and she turns and pulls me towards the path. "And bring the art student and his poodle. I think this is the start of something funny."

yeah Zeus is in for a really bad day soon and Eris is going to have a huge tub of popcorn.

Oh man this is going to be even more fun than that time we got Zeus and Loki drunk.
The resulting kid had all kinds of issues but the looks on their faces was funny as hell.

Mr Zoat said:
"Your help may well be quite useful. Or we might end up resolving things peacefully and-."

"Bghhahaha!" Eris hunches as she splurts with laughs, the action clearly taking her by surprise. She then reaches up with her right hand and half pat and half slaps me around the face. "'Peacef-. Have you met you?"

Yeah Paul brings chaos where ever he goes no matter how hard he tries.
Eris would probably be happy to have his babies if he asked just to see what fatherhood would motivate paul to do.

Mr Zoat · Mar 25, 2022

_The_Bomb said:
As someone who just reread the whole thing (gotta destress from finals somehow), I feel obligated to inform you that there are quite a few more of those that still need fixing.

Eh. If you link to the rotted links, I'll try and replace them. It's entirely too long for me to check all of them myself.

_The_Bomb · Mar 25, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Eh. If you link to the rotted links, I'll try and replace them. It's entirely too long for me to check all of them myself.

Unfortunately, I don't remember which ones were rotten but I'll be sure to link you any more I find going forward. I'll probably do another reread at some point in the future and refind a bunch.

Ngamer11 · Mar 26, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Stand by." I tag him with a filament. No real resistance there. Maybe I should work on some sort of armour for him? "Transition." Our surroundings flicker repeatedly as the sealed doors of the Watchtower's interior force me to stop on four occasions and poke tiny holes through them to carry on. Add interior force fields to the list… I'm not complaining, but it really shouldn't be possible to just-

The link here doesn't work anymore since the Superman wiki was made part of the DC wiki. Also, the thing it would've linked to, the Eradicator Armor from Earth 12, doesn't have a page of it's own. So you can either link it to an image or remove the link entirely.

jonasquinn · Mar 26, 2022

Rafin said:
Is he sure that Eris is still his patron of choice? Because he is clearly more deferential and respectful to "Lord" Hades.

Keep in mind that Eris is the Goddess of Chaos, being constantly deferential to her is kinda antithetical to the concept she embodies

It's one of the main reasons Paul chose her as his patron, not only does Paul naturally induce chaos just about anywhere he goes but she's probably the only Olympian that prefers his business like approach to their relationship over organised worship

DAT_NOOB · Mar 26, 2022

jonasquinn said:
Keep in mind that Eris is the Goddess of Chaos, being constantly deferential to her is kinda antithetical to the concept she embodies

It's one of the main reasons Paul chose her as his patron, not only does Paul naturally induce chaos just about anywhere he goes but she's probably the only Olympian that views his business like approach to their relationship over organised worship

I kinda want one day for Paul to just flip and call her Lady Eris and be extremely deferential to her for like a week. I imagine it would throw her through a loop.

Bramble Thorn · Mar 26, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, for Apokaliptian New Gods, anyway. I would assume the New Genesis tradition is a more direct linkage to the Source, as opposed to being fed power via Darkseid's godhead.

I'd just assumed Canis was wrong here, and this was the Darkseid Kool-Aid talking.

Because the Renegade talks like it is a connection to the Source, not Darkseid.
And because in this story Darkseid tried to purge Canis for having a divine portfolio he disapproved of.
And if he was New God of Darkseid's Artistic Vision, I don't think that would have happened.

Mr Zoat said:
I… Don't know if the mythological version is what actually happened. Hades admitted that he's changed a lot since the old days, but I imagine that it's a sore point with him and I haven't wanted to push it.

Um, Zoat?
This is the second time OL seems to have forgotten his memory in this story.

OL had talked with Hades previously. The source of the three brothers greater power since the Titanomachy being compatible titans being drained by the gods was directly spoken of and admitted. It gain them power, and also kept the titans they were siphoning that power from, drained and weak. Hades a chthonic titan/primordial. Poseidon a water titan/promordial. Zeus a sky titan/primordial.

He also previously directly asked Hades about the whole pomegranite thing. And Hades said it was one of those legal fiction things. Like how Hera didn't divorce Zeus all the previous times until Pavlos convinced her to. Because she was married to the 'King of the Gods' If someone has autocratical authority and says you are married, you can undo that marriage without another exercise of autocratical power. Zeus gave her over to Hades as his wife. Zeus wasn't willing to reverse himself (and implicitly admit he was wrong prior).

So a legal fiction was done to partially mollify Demeter while also being careful to not impugn the dignity of Zeus and his precious, precious feelings.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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