With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

At this point Paul should plan his own Decapitation and aim for both sides; since the Syndicate management may be willing to step down to a certain degree not all members seem to like this and may just revert to open conflict, Wilson and his forces have lost too much of their own people to villains to let the rest of the hook, and regardless of any pragmatic resolutions Paul may offer he's dealing people who are essentially comic book characters who follow their tropes to their cores.

He should focus on forming a third group of morally flexible people to pick up the pieces on both sides and actually maintain the infrastructure of the country, which include the uninvolved civilians. Similar to how Grayven created his own version of The Light after destroying the old one, or when he visited the other version of Earth's Justice Lords.

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Yes, the SI would quite like to get in contact with the local version of Lex Luthor, but at the moment that doesn't appear to be on the cards.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

If memory serves, Zoat established that the Wilson administration made it illegal to have any dealings with the Syndicate, and that someone literally got arrested for selling a syndicate member an apple.

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Yes, it is illegal, but in that case it was accepted by the prosecuting authorities during pretrial that they'd overstepped. The individual arrested still spent some time in prison, though.

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I would like clarification, because it sounds like this

They appear to have supplemented their farming income by being a step along the narcotic and people trafficking route, arranging for their neighbours to get cheap farm labour from Mexico and covertly growing and processing any number of plants that are illegal in the US. They sold the whole thing to their son once the Syndicate expanded into that area, and now almost every person of Mexican extraction in Kansas is in a prison camp for 'Syndicate-related criminal activity'.

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means there are a whole lot of itinerant farm workers who are in jail for the crime of being poor and probably undocumented, and working for next to no pay in back breaking conditions, and having been doubly unfortunate enough to do so in a farm with a tangential tie to the syndicate.

 

[Valint]

I agree that the number is probably not accurate, but what I find more disturbing than the number used is the reaction the heroes have to the stated possibility that half the nation could be killed as a direct result of their prolonged conflict with the villains.

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Sure, but isn't that the reaction heroes always have to the idea that rooting out crime will have negative consequences?

I mean, even in the standard DC universe, the answer to "We can't take down these criminals because it might cause too much collateral damage" is almost always going to be "Fuck those odds; we're going to remain righteous and true, take down the criminals and stop whatever scheme they have to cause damage." "We have a doomsday device and we're not afraid to use it" is just another Tuesday, not an automatic "I win" button for the villain.

Rule of law? Since when do heroes care about that? The idea that taking down criminals is more important than civil rights is practically one of Batman's bedrock principles.

From a standard hero perspective, the only problem here is that the heroes might not have enough firepower to pull it off, not that the goal is a bad one.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I would like clarification, because it sounds like this

means there are a whole lot of itinerant farm workers who are in jail for the crime of being poor and probably undocumented, and working for next to no pay in back breaking conditions, and having been doubly unfortunate enough to do so in a farm with a tangential tie to the syndicate.

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However I may feel about immigration law in this purely fictional setting, most countries have rules which restrict entry to people not native to that country.

The apple seller sold an apple to someone they suspected was a criminal. Selling apples is not in itself a crime. Also, that happened while Governor Wilson was purging his own state and well before the current day.

Anyone using the Kents to enter the country illegally committed a crime in doing so, and quite likely has been involved in criminal activity (farming narcotics) since.

 

[IndigoAbyss]

You guys can debate all you want. But its obvious to me that this country needs President Slade. Only he can lead our country from this decay.
SLADE FOR THIRD TERM!

 

[Maxx Crowley]

your world is your wold, we got enough problems in our own universe we don't need your on top of it.

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You've lived a life of villiany. You admit to crimes ranging from theft to murder. You are the remaining leadership of what amounts to a super powered mafia. One that kept the populace in line through terror of the sheer brute force you could bring to bear.

Suddenly, you are at the disadvantage.

You reap what you sow villian-man.

Now, on top of this you use doppelganger trickery to kidnap me and a young friend of mine so you can have use save your worthless hide?

Simply up and going home is the NICEST thing I can do for you.

Not a very heroic attitude.

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Playing on shame won't save you either. I heavily support Bash Back.

Intercede on your behalf to get you let off the hook? HAH!!!!

 

[DrThoth]

Shouldn't there be a Lord of Order Klarion running around? He might be reasonable and value a solution that minimizes mass destruction (Nabu-16 might not have, but I'm sure all Lords of Order don't act the same way). It's of course possible that Doctor Chaos dealt with him.

 

[Vaermina]

If Paul can access the Ophidian, he should just brand everybody to get them to temporarily stop, make them a portal home, then leave after undoing the branding. That is the best possible outcome I could see for Paul and Zatanna. That world is already on the road to self-destruction and beyond any hope of saving. I hope Paul just decides to do that rather than try to stop an unavoidable super war.

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The status quo was already upset past the point of no return when the Justice League showed up and took out most of the Syndicate leaders.

Right now it's only a matter of time till Slade finishes the Syndicate off.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

There are indeed 52...in the standard multiverse.

IIRC, DC cosmology has multiple Multiverses, so you functionally have infinite ones..

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it was more a joke playing on the fact that Zoat seems to have a mild disdain for the new 52

 

[Aeess]

If Paul can access the Ophidian, he should just brand everybody to get them to temporarily stop, make them a portal home, then leave after undoing the branding. That is the best possible outcome I could see for Paul and Zatanna. That world is already on the road to self-destruction and beyond any hope of saving. I hope Paul just decides to do that rather than try to stop an unavoidable super war.

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He wouldn't even need the Ophidian, he could just make use of the lack of Scry Wards, locate all the powered Syndicate members and just brand them one by one, he wouldn't even need to make them stand down, just adjust their desires so that they wont commit mass murder as response to Slade.

 

[Ct613hulu]

Do you think that Enigma and Slade would actually be willing to accept this type of sudden and relatively non-violent victory? The psychological issues that are driving them to intensify the conflict with the Syndicate will not suddenly go away once victory is achieved.

 

[Aeess]

Do you think that Enigma and Slade would actually be willing to accept this type of sudden and relatively non-violent victory? The psychological issues that are driving them to intensify the conflict with the Syndicate will not suddenly go away once victory is achieved.

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This wouldn't give them a non-violent victory, its would just make sure their conflict doesn't results in millions of civilians dying.

 

[Mr Zoat]

it was more a joke playing on the fact that zoat seems to have a mild distain for the new 52

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You picked up on that? I hadn't realised I was being so obvious.

 

[Mr Zoat]

So... Just watched episode 14.

Spoiler

Turns out that Barda is still on Team Apokolips. Which presumably means that Scott Free isn't on Earth. Also, liked Guy's singing.

 

[narukaze132]

"Because President Wilson doesn't want to risk the Syndicate getting strong enough to take control of the county again? And talking to us could risk him giving them the opportunity to rebuild."

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Is this supposed to be "country"?

 

[gustyeagle]

Even though this mission seems like a total bust, there are some upsides. There are some real nice super tools up for grabs in this universe.
Power rings, spears of destiny, and maybe even a medusa mask. Point being time to grab some shines and leave before OL fucks with something that can fuck him back.

 

[Cuchulin]

Even though this mission seems like a total bust, there are some upsides. There are some real nice super tools up for grabs in this universe.
Power rings, spears of destiny, and maybe even a medusa mask. Point being time to grab some shines and leave before OL fucks with something that can fuck him back.

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Agreed! Also raid any and all databases with in easy reach for useful tech or what ever. Maybe also take this Earth's version of the things Nylor Truggs used against OL if they can be found on this earth.

 

[Mr Zoat]

5th February
20:43 GMT -5

I frown in mild confusion as Lamprey and Sea Witch promenade through the great hall, exchanging polite greetings with several Made Men.

"I never heard how Lamprey ended up… Like that."

Jonathan Kent watches me impassively for a moment. "Not like your version, y'mean."

I nod. "I recognise Nanauvian blood magic, though he seems far more advanced than anyone I've heard of at his age. It's his.. attitude that I can't place."

Mister Kent makes a small shrugging gesture. "Kidnapped when he was a kid. Some crazy shark wizard wanted t' see if surface worlders could learn blood magic. Lamprey was the only one who survived, an' he ate his teacher 'bout the same time as Barracuda's army broke through the city's walls."

"Sure, I was there when he told our Kaldur that. And that would explain the brutality, not…"

Jonathan's eyes follow his team mate for a moment. "Guess after what he went through, he learned not t' wear his feelin's on his sleeve. An' since his power comes from eatin' people, he usually goes 'zero' t' 'three hundred' in no time flat."

"Our Tula's dating our Garth, but he said that he ate your Garth."

"Oh, that ain't the creepy thing." Jonathan takes a sip of his beer, his eyes moving around the Great Hall. "You hear how that happened?"

"No." I smile at him. "Go on, horrify me."

"Our Garth was a junior officer in the Shayeris army. Him an' Tula were engaged, an' they were gonna get married once the Nanauvian campaign was over. He was doin' such a good job Barracuda invited him t' eat with the senior officers." Jonathan smiles unpleasantly. "Only he runs his mouth about Barracuda bein' an 'inferior surface dweller'. Barracuda takes it, then sics his assassin on him. Lamprey kills an' eats him, then decides that that means he gets Tula as well."

"Ah."

"So her family thinks, okay, the king's nephew's dead, and this Nanauvian guy's in tight with the Emperor's half-brother and he's goin' places, so they okay it. Tula weren't so keen, but I guess she figures she can put up with it 'til she can poison him. Only she puts the poison in his food."

"And he detects it with magic, because the entire focus of his magic is eating."

"Which she never bothered learnin', cause she's a stuck up bitch. But he figures, okay." Jonathan shrugs. "It's just poison. No big. They're married, right? And it weren't gonna kill him even if he hadn't spotted it. But he can't let it go completely. So he rips out her right eye, tears off her right ear and bites off one of her fingers, and eats them."

I jerk my head away from him and back towards her. "She appears to have all her parts."

"Atlantean wizards can grow stuff back. Her irises 're a slightly different color now, but other than that you'd never know. Only now, any time he wants, Lamprey can see everything she sees, hear everything she hears and feel everything she touches. Said if she tried it again he'd eat part a' her brain, too."

Ew.

Jonathan smiles. "Yeah, thought you'd like that one. Now what the fuck are you doin' here?"

"Capo Scott felt that my alter ego's absence would weaken the Management position."

Jonathan grimaces. "New Management bein' weak weakens the New Management's position."

"You want to say that to Capo Scott's face?"

That earns me a small glare. "Had Blue chewin' my ear off fer a year about keeping it cool. I get it. But I still think we could win."

"Win..?"

"Us against the Underground, against Luthor. Fuck it, us against the goddamn army."

"Jonathan, even-."

His eyes harden. "Ultraboy. I'll take 'Jonathan' from Blue, not from you."

"Ultraboy… What's the Syndicate for?"

He frowns, puzzled. "What d'ya mean?"

"What is the Syndicate for? I threw a similar question at my parallel's Justice League once, and I'm still not convinced that they know. Your father was Management. One day, you might be too. You should probably have some idea of what the organisation is for."

"'Who profits?'"

"Which means?"

"What, your ring don't do Latin? 'Who profits?' What d'we get out of it? What's the benefit, what's the angle."

"Who profits from unlimited revenge? Is anyone paying you to kill all those people?"

"No-."

"Your father gave up his grudge with Owlman in order to beat President Wilson, because that's what he needed to do to keep the business going. Your father couldn't beat the Justice League-."

His beer bottle shatters as his right hand clenches into a fist. "My Pa got ambushed. Wilson had ta' land a nuke on the moon base."

"Not the point. Luthor still has his planar portal. He has access to thousands of parallel universes. Even in the event that the Syndicate could beat this entire world -and you'd have to, because people know about Owlman's bomb now- then Luthor-"

"I know the bomb was stupid-."

"-could call for aid from as many Justice Leagues as it took. One League stopped your father. One League, and the threat of one tactical nuclear device. If you pick a fight with this whole world, that includes two countries who wouldn't mind all that much if they had to carpet-nuke America to stop you. And even if you could win, there'd be nothing left; scorched earth, depopulated and wrecked cities, radioactive fallout and a nuclear winter. As a wise man named Wilson Fisk once said: 'there is no profit to be made in the destruction of the planet', and there really isn't. Am I getting through?"

He looks down at his right hand, brushing the glass and residual beer off his skin. "Yeah. Sure. I'm gunna.. go circulate."

"Sure. Enjoy yourself."

He walks away, and a quick look inside him shows his conflicting desires battering against each other, with the one where M'gavv ties him up and-. Okay, not strictly relevant.

I shake my head, and take a look at his other new team mates.

Their Raquel survived one of Owlman's experiments involving what I suspect was their Arnus's ship. Arnus himself appears not to have survived into the modern day, though given that his ship gave him a human-seeming face and he could look like anyone I suppose that I shouldn't assume anything. She has flight, super strength and endurance and calls herself 'Skud'. She also seems… Kind of out of it, though whether that's intoxication or a result of Owlman's treatment I don't know. She's talking to Jackie Quick at the moment, or… Rather, being talked at by him, though she seems happy enough with the situation.

Their Tula appears to be a pure caster rather than a battlemage. No Robert, no Donna, no Beryl, Roy or Canis, or Leonid or Amon. I know that in the Earth 2 comic J'onn J'onzz guessed that the Syndicate's villainous nature made it hard for them to make allies, but that doesn't seem to be a problem here. I guess it's the utter battering the Syndicate's been getting recently that makes it a less appealing organisation to sign up to.

I wonder what the best way to get a few more of these people on-side is? I've got a sound argument, and doing what I want gets them what they want; they get to avoid dying to President Wilson's enforcers or executioners, they get to fight and dominate and get paid for it. But anyone without allies or subordinates in a gathering like this is going to have an uphill struggle. Zatanna would probably get more recognition than me, but she's busy pumping the Don for information on the Zatara crime family-.

And then I hear the guitar.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is this supposed to be "country"?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Buggy123]

"Not the point. Luthor still has his planar portal. He has access to thousands of parallel universes. Even in the event that the Syndicate could beat this entire world -and you'd have to, because people knows about Owlman's bomb now- then Luthor-"

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Oh, there are more than a few dozen parallel universes. Good to know.

 

[FreeGod]

Now I wonder the Syndicate will want to try that? Or maybe just pull up stakes and invade some other universe.

 

[Oglymogly]

And then I hear the guitar.

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Oh shit. Who is it going to be? I'm hoping for a mercenary Plastic Man myself.

Also, I absolutely love that scene. A assassin so badass he sings you a song before he kills you. I really should make a bard based on him someday. (Please note I didn't say good assassin. The best assassins have no renown whatsoever)

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Mister Kent makes a small shrugging gesture. "Kidnapped when he was a kid. Some crazy shark wizard wanted t' see if surface worlders could learn blood magic. Lamprey was the only one who survived, an' he ate his teacher 'bout the same time as Barracuda's army broke through the city's walls."

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That says a lot about the wizard's safety practices...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Jonathan takes a snip of his beer, his eyes moving around the Great Hall.

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Jonathan takes a sip of his beer, his eyes moving around the Great Hall.

"Our Garth was a junior officer in the Shayeris army. Him an' Tula were engaged, an' they were gonna get married once the Nanauvian campaign was over. He was doin' such a good job Barracuda invited him t' eat with the senior officers." Jonathan smiles unpleasantly. "Only he runs his mouth about Barracuda bein' an 'inferior surface dweller'. Barracuda take it, then sics his assassin on him. Lamprey kills an' eats him, then decides that that means he gets Tula as well."

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"You keep what you kill. It's a classic."

Tula weren't go keen, but I guess she figures she can put up with it 'til she can poison him.

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Tula weren't so keen, but I guess she figures she can put up with it 'til she can poison him.

"And he detects it with magic, because the entire focus of his magic is eating."

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Brains are not entirely her strong suite in this universe, are they?

But he figure, okay." Jonathan shrugs.

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But he figures, okay." Jonathan shrugs.

And it weren't gonna kill him even if he hand't spotted it.

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And it weren't gonna kill him even if he hadn't spotted it.

"Atlantean wizards can grow stuff back. Her irises 're a slightly different color now, but other than that you'd never know. Only now, any time he wants, Lamprey can see everything she sees, hear everything she hears and feel everything she touches. Said if she tried it again he'd eat part a' her brain, too."

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Sympathetic magic. classy.

Jonathan grimaces. "New Management bein' weak weakens the New Management's position."

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Seems he doesn't agree with the New Deal.

"Us against the Underground, against Luthor. Fuck it, us against the goddamn army."

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Overconfidence. Easy to manipulate.

"What is the Syndicate for? I threw a similar question at my parallel's Justice League once, and I'm still not convinced that they know. Your father was Management. One day, you might be too. You should probably have some idea of what the organisation is for."

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A good question.

"What, your ring don't do latin?

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"What, your ring don't do Latin?
(Proper name of a language, should be capitalised...)

"Your father gave up his grudge with Owlman in order to beat President Wilson, because that's what he needed to do to keep the business going. Your father couldn't beat the Justice League-."

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Careful...

As a wise man named Wilson Fisk once said: 'there is no profit to be made in the destruction of the planet', and there really isn't. Am I getting through?"

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Please, don't be an idiot, Ultraboy...

And then I hear the guitar.

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Oh boy, this is going to get funny, isn't it?

Let's hope things don't go completely ploin-shaped yet...

 

[Razorfloss]

I know this is frankly impossible but god I hope it's lobo.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Jonathan takes a snip of his beer, his eyes moving around the Great Hall.
Jonathan takes a sip of his beer, his eyes moving around the Great Hall.
Tula weren't go keen, but I guess she figures she can put up with it 'til she can poison him.
Tula weren't so keen, but I guess she figures she can put up with it 'til she can poison him.
But he figure, okay." Jonathan shrugs.
But he figures, okay." Jonathan shrugs.
And it weren't gonna kill him even if he hand't spotted it.
And it weren't gonna kill him even if he hadn't spotted it.
"What, your ring don't do latin?
"What, your ring don't do Latin?
(Proper name of a language, should be capitalised...)

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Thank you, corrected.

I know this is frankly impossible but god I hope it's lobo.

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You mean War Wolf.

 

[Ganurath]

Music is a form of art. Perhaps they have Canis after all?

 

[Zig]

Music Meister Master?

 

[Handlewithcare]

"There is no profit to be made in the destruction of the planet"

Well, there is a lot more profit to be made legally too, Fisk you moron.

Or at least the same amount without so much risk.

 

[Queshire]

Of course, if you can survive the destruction of the planet then that's another matter.

 

[Prince Charon]

Of course, if you can survive the destruction of the planet then that's another matter.

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If you can survive the destruction of the planet but can't travel very fast in space, you're going to be bored and lonely for a long time.