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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

"King Orin is still king, so they might-."

"No one's seen him. Just that 'arry Ahn fucker. It's a palace coup, mate."
Oh look, the completely predictable thing everyone predicted was actually happening happened right under the MC's nose.


The Imperium is basically incapable of the sort of internal reform that would fix its problems.
Provably untrue given we know from the last few years of Codex's that they actually have begun to go through the internal reform needed to fix their problems.


The larger arc would be 'how to we integrate humans', because the tau don't really know. They've tried leaving them more or less as they are and they've tried proselytising them and neither work reliably and that's a problem because while a single hive world doesn't have more humans than the Tau Empire has tau, two or three together probably do.
"How do we integrate humans" would require destroying both Chaos and the Imperium.
 
Provably untrue given we know from the last few years of Codex's that they actually have begun to go through the internal reform needed to fix their problems.

You mean the reforms that Gill guy is doing.

Guilliman has a superhuman intellect that makes him supernaturally good at things like running a civilization.

He's also viewed positively by the vast majority of the Imperium, so they have relatively little trouble embracing his reforms.

Chaos has also gotten a lot bigger during that time and thus people may be looking for new options.

Paul on the other hand...

He lacks a superhuman intellect geared towards administration.

He's viewed as a heretic traitor by the Imperium.

Chaos hasn't reached that level of power.

He lacks a lot of Guilliman's advantages.

Heck, even if they started some reforms before Guilliman came back, they would still be an insanely evil civilization.

How do we integrate humans" would require destroying both Chaos and the Imperium

Or just treating the humans that they conquer with decency.

It's really not that difficult.

The Imperium treats people like shit and they think that it's not only necessary to do that but that it's holy.

Chaos thrives with humans because they're treated like shit and thus start to lose any care they would have for the Imperium.

Or if they're a noble then they're corrupt as hell and will do anything for more power or pleasure.

Or they're an angry bastard. You know that the Imperium considers blind hated to be a virtue?

Frankly it's surprising that most soldiers don't fall to Khorne.

And there's the fact that the Imperium keeps Chaos a secret, even when it's stupid to do so.

All the Tau would have to do is basically give humans fresh bread like once a week and release a PSA to not talk to any seemingly kindly old men in gardens and they'd get extremely positive results.

And unlike GW, Zoat doesn't have to make the Tau fail for some convoluted reason just to make sure the Imperium fans don't get pissed at their favorite fascists failing.
 
Supnautica (part 13) New
7th May 2013
02:59 GMT -1

Robert isn't swimming. Rather, the water's propelling him along without interrupting his passage or breathing. That's a really quite sophisticated use of magic and I should remember to complement him about it at some point. But first…

"'Robbie'?"

He shrugs. "I don't have a secret identity, do I? We know who each other are. And they're not exactly Bane or anything. If they hadn't tripped over that spell they'd probably wouldn't even have gotten excluded from school."

"That's nice."

He snorts. "Wally was right. I can't tell when you're being sarcastic either."

"No, it-. I think the best result of what we do is that we knock some sense into someone before they do anything too bad, and they never commit a crime again. Or… Find out the underlying reason for them acting up and dealing with it legally and then they just give up."

"Yeah. Yeah, me too. So how come you're basically a space soldier, then?"

"I accept that the modus operandi I've chosen doesn't allow me to do that very often. That doesn't mean that I enjoy it moment by moment any more than any other-. Ah, than most other soldiers do. I just put up with it because I… Value the outcomes." I smile. "I am looking forwards to the day that the Reach finally collapses and I can go back to being a 'normal' superhero. I think-. I think Alan would like that too."

Steven turns around and glares at us.

"Come on! How come I'm faster than both of you?!"

"A lack of caution on your part. I'm monitoring our environment and getting feedback on focuses of magic activity from the Justice League's magic detection network."

Robert shrugs. "Casting this spell and hiding it is actually quite hard."

I point upwards in the direction of… Tritonis, I think, depending on how the trade routes have changed. "Incoming."

Robert and I slow, and Steven seeks cover in the ocean floor and the… Leviathan biomancy-crafted transportation creature lumbers past. And then a second, and a third.

Robert stares up at them. "Hey, can they see us?"

"Sort of. Yes, but they're not intelligent, they just react to certain stimuli. Unless we put out a lot of energy or get a lot closer, we're not noticeable. There's just too much happening in the ocean for them to be useful otherwise."

"What if they're looking for us?"

"Then they wouldn't use a bulk transport." Hm. "Cornwall, can you change your appearance?"

"To a fishman? … Yeah? It feels.. weird, but I can."

And I've scanned Professor Sephtian enough times…

Ooooh, this is weird. This is weird. And since I don't have any of the magic actual mantafolk do, my ring is keeping my non-functional physiology ticking over.

"So we sneak in with the tourists?"

"I don't think they're tourists, but yes."

"Great." His outline shimmers and…

"Selkie?"

"It's easiest." He looks up at the leviathan shoal as they keep swimming towards Nanauve. "We need to get a move on."

I nod. I mean, even if there are military people organising it -and based on what Steven said that's unlikely- mass transportations are chaotic messes at the best of times, so we should be able to mix in unless we're really late. But still…

I start swimming, though most of the actual work is being done by ring. Robert seems to be using a different form of magic to make his partially seal body move faster. Steven is just carrying on as before.

Nanauve is gradually becoming visible in the distance, my work removing plastic particulates from the ocean paying dividends. It's… More spread out than Poseidonis, the buildings blockier and more solidly built. The area the leviathans are heading for… I'm not sure if it's technically a landing pad, a courtyard or a plaza, but there isn't much cover and there are people waiting for them.

"I think it's probably best if I transition us in as they start disembarking."

Steven flaps his gills. "Why even bother? Whatever they're doing, you need to talk to the locals -the people I know- first. I mean, don't you?"

"We don't want people to know who we are, and if there's some sort of monitoring then we need to get on the inside track. Once we're 'released' then we can meet your contacts."

"Alright. You're paying us." He slows to a stop and Robert and I do. "You're paying us, right?"

"Yes."

"Right. So is this a ghetto? Like the Jews in Warsaw?"

"Not really. If what I think is happening is happening, they're engaging in city-scale segregation. Even at its worst, Atlantis never did had that sort of extermination campaign.""Against their own people. There were a couple of times where they murdered foreigners-. Point is, you don't give people you're planning on killing the run of their own city, or let them have access to the resources they need to sustain themselves without external aid."

Robert nods. "Yeah, they're not setting up lines. They're just going to dump them. No Pureblood soldiers-."

"They even call them Purebloods. I always thought that sounded Nazi."

"This isn't genocide. This is enforced racial hierarchy. Or something like it. If it's what it looks like. It could just be people moving here because they can't live comfortably above the surface."

"Yeah, right. What's Aquaman doing about this?"

"One of many questions…"

The leviathans swoop down towards the landing area and open their transportation bladders. Lines of people… Huh, no Pureblood soldiers there, either. Just aquatic-trait Atlanteans of various types…

Including Lori Lemaris. That's… Concerning, but it also gives me an in.

"Transport in two, one."

The orange strand I ran under the ground briefly peeps up out of the plaza floor and then we're there, my arms wrapped around my colleagues as I make sure that we're moving with the crowd. I release them once they're moving under their own power, edging slightly so that I end up alongside Miss Lemaris.

Oddly… None of the crowd really looked at us.

"Long time no see."

"Ah..?" She blinks, turning her head to look at me. "Do I..? Know you?"

I turn my hand so that she gets a quick look at my ring, before concealing it again.

"I realise we weren't-."

Her eyes widen. "Oh Metis! You-. We need-." She looks around. "We need to talk. Wait until the speech is finished, then follow me."

She swims through the crowd as… The senior shark king and his retinue takes up positions on a podium and the crowd forms up in front of him.

This is getting… Stranger.
 
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And unlike GW, Zoat doesn't have to make the Tau fail for some convoluted reason just to make sure the Imperium fans don't get pissed at their favorite fascists failing.
The Imperium isn't fascist. it's actually very medieval, with a hereditary aristocracy bound together by feudal obligations and a few shared institutions.
 
You mean the reforms that Gill guy is doing.
Mr Zoat said it was "basically incapable" showing it is in fact capable contradicts that.


Or just treating the humans that they conquer with decency.
Which they can't do with the Imperium and Chaos around.

The Tau cannot cut humans off from the Imperium completely any other way. Because doing that would interfere with the Psyker Tithe, and the moment they do that is the moment the Adeptus Custodius gets sent out. At which point anyone involved in blocking the Tithe dies.

And Chaos doesnt thrive in humans because they're treated like shit, it thrives in humans by whispering in ears and offering people what they want.

Those things tend to follow the rather common path of Power, Immortality, Forbidden Knowledge, and Depraved Sex.

As a final point, you have it backwards, GW is constantly saving the Tau from being absolutely crushed. Not making sure the Tau fail. Like dude, the sheer number of dues ex machina they have used to keep the Tau alive has reached meme status.
 
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"No, it-. I think the best result of what we do is that we knock some sense into someone before they do anything too bad, and they never commit a crime again. Or… Find out the underlying reason for them acting up and dealing with it legally and then they just give up."

"Yeah. Yeah, me too. So how come you're basically a space soldier, then?"
"To be fair, I actually did have some success getting various factions in the Vega system to turn into Totally Legitimate Businessmen. Yes, I needed to wipe out a clone army there, but that was mostly unrelated."

"To a fishman? … Yeah? It feel.. weird, but I can."
'feels' here.

And Chaos doesnt thrive in humans because they're treated like shit, it thrives in humans by whispering in ears and offering people what they want.



Those things tend to follow the rather common path of Power, Immortality, Forbidden Knowledge, and Depraved Sex.
Really, the true secret of Chaos recruitment ties into the Warp itself: the reason they can just steal your soul is because the Warp IS your soul.

One of its other names is the Sea of Souls, after all.
 
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Robbie'?"

He shrugs. "I don't have a secret identity, do I?

To be fair, even if a superheroes identity is known, they may still wear a mask for several practical reasons.

If it contains technology then it serves practical purposes.

A mask also hides the facial features and can make reading faces difficult, so enemies may not know what they're doing.

It can also reassure civilians since they may not be able to tell that a superhero is afraid.

And if they keep wearing the mask then they'll be associated with it and when someone mentions their name the first thing people are going to think about is the mask, so if they want to just take a walk around town without being mobbed then they can just take off the mask and will have a good chance of succeeding.

Come on! How come I'm faster than both of you?!"

Well you probably swim more than them.

Leviathan biomancy-crafted transportation creature lumbers past. And then a second, and a third.

Kinda makes me thing if those sea creatures from Samurai Jack.


"or get a lot"

And I've scanning Professor

"been scanning"

Ooooh, this is weird. This is weird. And since I don't have any of the magic actual mantafolk do, my ring is keeping my non-functional physiology ticking over.

Well the only two other times you changed, you erred relatively humanoid.

"So we sneak in with the tourists?"

"I don't think they're tourists

Some of them could have been, before everything.

They even call them Purebloods. I always thought that sounded Nazi

He's not wrong.

"This isn't genocide. This is enforced racial hierarchy

Still terrible.

And that can be a prelude to genocide.


"landing"

Her eyes widen. "Oh Metis! You-. We need-." She looks around. "We need to talk. Wait until the speech is finished, then follow me."

She swims through the crowd as… The senior shark king and his retinue takes up positions on a podium and the crowd forms up in front of him.

This is getting… Stranger

Guessing he's going to talk about their "great new future" or "opportunities for advancement" or whatever crap Ahri'ahn told him to say.
 
Mr Zoat said it was "basically incapable" showing it is in fact capable contradicts that.
I would argue that "the Imperium is only capable of change if its god or one of his demigod sons is the one pushing the change, and even then it will be a slow, torturous process" does in fact line up with "basically incapable" of change, given the way the term "basically" is typically used in this context. ie: a roughly accurate account of a more complex situation.
 
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Mr Zoat said it was "basically incapable" showing it is in fact capable contradicts that

After what was basically an Act of God.

The thing that saved the Imperium was a literal demigod and his creator telling him to do it.

Without that the Imperium humans are practically incapable of doing that for a variety of reasons ranging from the situation already reaching epic proportions of fucked up, to most of humanity, especially the higher ups, having a twisted worldview that makes them incapable of actual positive change.

The Tau cannot cut humans off from the Imperium completely any other way. Because doing that would interfere with the Psyker Tithe, and the moment they do that is the moment the Adeptus Custodius gets sent out. At which point anyone involved in blocking the Tithe dies.

The Custodes barely do anything and planets get cut off from the Imperium all the time, yet they don't intervene.

And Chaos doesnt thrive in humans because they're treated like shit, it thrives in humans by whispering in ears and offering people what they want.

Those things tend to follow the rather common path of Power, Immortality, Forbidden Knowledge, and Depraved Sex

You ever think that this may be because a majority of humans have nothing to look forward to but abject misery and ruin, while the other half is spoiled rotten and told that anything they do is sacred because their position is divinely ordained?

Also the fact that most don't know about Chaos?

Maybe if the Tau get rid of those things by providing people with a living, teaching the values of moderation and humility and actually telling people of the massive danger then Chaos would lose a lot of converts.

As a final point, you have it backwards, GW is constantly saving the Tau from being absolutely crushed. Not making sure the Tau fail. Like dude, the sheer number of dues ex machina they have used to keep the Tau alive has reached meme status

And the Imperium hasn't reached that same status?

They literally used what's basically a deus ex machina to do it.
 
All the Tau would have to do is basically give humans fresh bread like once a week and release a PSA to not talk to any seemingly kindly old men in gardens and they'd get extremely positive results.

And unlike GW, Zoat doesn't have to make the Tau fail for some convoluted reason just to make sure the Imperium fans don't get pissed at their favorite fascists failing.
You uh, don't really understand chaos or the imperium do you?
 
7th May 2013
02:59 GMT -1


Robert isn't swimming. Rather, the water's propelling him along without interrupting his passage or breathing. That's a really quite sophisticated use of magic and I should remember to complement him about it at some point. But first…
Some sort of pulsed pressure drive effect, maybe. Condensing and pushing masses of water so quickly that it looks like a continuous effect. Or just some 'solid' spots around him that he's hauling, like picking yourself up by your bootstraps... Which with magic is entirely possible.

"'Robbie'?"

He shrugs. "I don't have a secret identity, do I? We know who each other are. And they're not exactly Bane or anything. If they hadn't tripped over that spell they'd probably wouldn't even have gotten excluded from school."
At worst, they'd have become general thugs, doing minor crimes and maybe getting locked up when they turned eighteen.

"That's nice."

He snorts. "Wally was right. I can't tell when you're being sarcastic either."
Honestly, he might be completely serious. He's never really played the secret identity game. And he's always been about reform over punishment.

"No, it-. I think the best result of what we do is that we knock some sense into someone before they do anything too bad, and they never commit a crime again. Or… Find out the underlying reason for them acting up and dealing with it legally and then they just give up."

"Yeah. Yeah, me too. So how come you're basically a space soldier, then?"
Circumstance, and the need to fight a true evil.

"I accept that the modus operandi I've chosen doesn't allow me to do that very often. That doesn't mean that I enjoy it moment by moment any more than any other-. Ah, than most other soldiers do. I just put up with it because I… Value the outcomes." I smile. "I am looking forwards to the day that the Reach finally collapses and I can go back to being a 'normal' superhero. I think-. I think Alan would like that too."
No more having to kill unreasonable amounts of soldiers in space wars, certainly. Much nicer to drag humanity into uplift programs.

Steven turns around and glares at us.

"Come on! How come I'm faster than both of you?!"
Because you're a shark, and they aren't, for a start.

"A lack of caution on your part. I'm monitoring our environment and getting feedback on focuses of magic activity from the Justice League's magic detection network."

Robert shrugs. "Casting this spell and hiding it is actually quite hard."
In other words, they aren't just swimming really fast.

I point upwards in the direction of… Tritonis, I think, depending on how the trade routes have changed. "Incoming."

Robert and I slow, and Steven seeks cover in the ocean floor and the… Leviathan biomancy-crafted transportation creature lumbers past. And then a second, and a third.
I'm guessing something like a giant whale-shark, engineered to carry vast amounts of material in internal pouches.

Robert stares up at them. "Hey, can they see us?"

"Sort of. Yes, but they're not intelligent, they just react to certain stimuli. Unless we put out a lot of energy or a lot get closer, we're not noticeable. There's just too much happening in the ocean for them to be useful otherwise."
And at any significant depth, light is basically useless. More likely to have sonar guidance. Or some exotic magical navigation.

"What if they're looking for us?"

"Then they wouldn't use a bulk transport." Hm. "Cornwall, can you change your appearance?"
True, his entirely-human appearance might look out of place in a city being used as a dumping ground for piscine-anthropomorphs.

"To a fishman? … Yeah? It feel.. weird, but I can."

And I've scanning Professor Sephtian enough times…
An amusing model for OL to use as a basis. Presumably with some colouration adjustments, though.

Ooooh, this is weird. This is weird. And since I don't have any of the magic actual mantafolk do, my ring is keeping my non-functional physiology ticking over.

"So we sneak in with the tourists?"
Hopefully no-one notices the odd manta-man out.

"I don't think they're tourists, but yes."

"Great." His outline shimmers and…
'Refugees', eh? Cast out of the 'pretty' cities because of perceived 'impurity'. Gee, not looking any better for Ahri'ahn, is it?

"Selkie?"

"It's easiest." He looks up at the leviathan shoal as they keep swimming towards Nanauve. "We need to get a move on."
Though a little conspicuous, if it's mammalian. The typical piscine Atlantean is fish, not aquatic mammal - no dolphin or whale folk, for example, what with the whole air-breathing thing.

I nod. I mean, even if there are military people organising it -and based on what Steven said that's unlikely- mass transportations are chaotic messes at the best of times, so we should be able to mix in unless we're really late. But still…

I start swimming, though most of the actual work is being done by ring. Robert seems to be using a different form of magic to make his partially seal body move faster. Steven is just carrying on as before.
Presumably they'll be taken as folks moving of their own accord ahead of 'enforced relocation'.

Nanauve is gradually becoming visible in the distance, my work removing plastic particulates from the ocean paying dividends. It's… More spread out than Poseidonis, the buildings blockier and more solidly built. The area the leviathans are heading for… I'm not sure if it's technically a landing pad, a courtyard or a plaza, but there isn't much cover and there are people waiting for them.
It could be all three, given the nature of aquatic cities. Especially since anything coming in doesn't necessarily have to set down on the ground.

"I think it's probably best if I transition us in as they start disembarking."

Steven flaps his gills. "Why even bother? Whatever they're doing, you need to talk to the locals -the people I know- first. I mean, don't you?"
Mixing in with the rest of the displaced mass, eh? As long as they didn't do a head count beforehand...

"We don't want people to know who we are, and if there's some sort of monitoring then we need to get on the inside track. Once we're 'released' then we can meet your contacts."

"Alright. You're paying us." He slows to a stop and Robert and I do. "You're paying us, right?"
Patience, young shark. It isn't entirely safe to leave just yet, but once you do, you'll get your cash.

"Yes."

"Right. So is this a ghetto? Like the Jews in Warsaw?"
An unpleasant comparison, but an apt one, given Ahri'ahn's segregation.

"Not really. If what I think is happening is happening, they're engaging in city-scale segregation. Even at its worst, Atlantis never did had that sort of extermination campaign.""Against their own people. There were a couple of times where they murdered foreigners-. Point is, you don't give people you're planning on killing the run of their own city, or let them have access to the resources they need to sustain themselves without external aid."
And there was no military guard around the borders of the city that they could see. Unless it's closer in.

Robert nods. "Yeah, they're not setting up lines. They're just going to dump them. No Pureblood soldiers-."

"They even call them Purebloods. I always thought that sounded Nazi."
Man, Ahri'ahn didn't really pay much attention to modern history, did he?

"This isn't genocide. This is enforced racial hierarchy. Or something like it. If it's what it looks like. It could just be people moving here because they can't live comfortably above the surface."

"Yeah, right. What's Aquaman doing about this?"
That is a good point, but I suspect the shallower cities are seeing a lot less piscine-Atlanteans on the street these days.

"One of many questions…"

The leviathans swoop down towards the handing area and open their transportation bladders. Lines of people… Huh, no Pureblood soldiers there, either. Just aquatic-trait Atlanteans of various types…
Definitely refugee transportation, then. surprised no guards, unless any mind-control makes them go along with directions even after an extended period.

Including Lori Lemaris. That's… Concerning, but it also gives me an in.

"Transport in two, one."
Ah, one of Superman's old girlfriends, at least in the Silver Age. The local one is a minor student alongside Kaldur, Garth and Tula. But she's met OL, so...

The orange strand I ran under the ground briefly peeps up out of the plaza floor and then we're there, my arms wrapped around my colleagues as I make sure that we're moving with the crowd. I release them once they're moving under their own power, edging slightly so that I end up alongside Miss Lemaris.
And hopefully no-one takes note of the three teleporting sea-folk...

Oddly… None of the crowd really looked at us.

"Long time no see."
Conditioning or simply beat-down after several months of Ahri'ahn's rule, I wonder?

"Ah..?" She blinks, turning her head to look at me. "Do I..? Know you?"

I turn my hand so that she gets a quick look at my ring, before concealing it again.
A risky move. If there's an ongoing loyalty effect, she could have started screaming about enemies of the state or the like.

"I realise we weren't-."

Her eyes widen. "Oh Metis! You-. We need-." She looks around. "We need to talk. Wait until the speech is finished, then follow me."
Ha, I get it. She's a student, so she offers prayers to Metis to aid her learning.

She swims through the crowd as… The senior shark king and his retinue takes up positions on a podium and the crowd forms up in front of him.

This is getting… Stranger.
I would have expected someone of less lofty rank than the King himself. Presumably things are upset enough the authority is needed to keep the peace.

Well, the hardest part is done, getting into the city undetected. Hopefully. Now to see what OL can find out about the situation on the ground, since I suspect Stevie wasn't able to get that much information out of his contacts. Perhaps Lori will be able to fill them in on matters in Tritonis, at least. Here's hoping all goes well..
 
Because you're a shark, and they aren't, for a start.

This obviously made me think of King Shark.

And there was no military guard around the borders of the city that they could see. Unless it's closer in.

Or they're magically concealed.

Man, Ahri'ahn didn't really pay much attention to modern history, did he?

And if hevdud then he probably took the wrong lessons from it.

And hopefully no-one takes note of the three teleporting sea-folk...

Theyvare a magical civilization, so it may not be that notable.
 
I mean if you study modern history what you learn is that caste systems work perfectly well when the culture is correctly structured around them: The most populous nation on the entire planet has run just fine on a caste system for thousands of years.

There is more to the world than just Europe and European history.
 
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The Custodes barely do anything and planets get cut off from the Imperium all the time, yet they don't intervene.
GW literally just released an animated short showing what the Custodes do to ensure the Psyker Tithe even on doomed worlds.


You ever think that this may be because a majority of humans have nothing to look forward to but abject misery and ruin, while the other half is spoiled rotten and told that anything they do is sacred because their position is divinely ordained?

Also the fact that most don't know about Chaos?

Maybe if the Tau get rid of those things by providing people with a living, teaching the values of moderation and humility and actually telling people of the massive danger then Chaos would lose a lot of converts.
No, because because people would still want Power, Immortality, Forbidden Knowledge, and Depraved Sex.

The only way to stop that would be destroying Chaos or giving them those things to a greater degree then Chaos can. (Which the Tau can't do.)


And the Imperium hasn't reached that same status?

They literally used what's basically a deus ex machina to do it.
No? It's becoming really clear you don't know much about the setting outside of the wikia and fan fiction.


After what was basically an Act of God.

The thing that saved the Imperium was a literal demigod and his creator telling him to do it.

Without that the Imperium humans are practically incapable of doing that for a variety of reasons ranging from the situation already reaching epic proportions of fucked up, to most of humanity, especially the higher ups, having a twisted worldview that makes them incapable of actual positive change.
If only Paul had a power ring capable of miracles that could wake that Demigod early... Oh wait...
 
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GW literally just released an animated short showing what the Custodes do to ensure the Psyker Tithe even on doomed worlds.
That is a recent thing, prior to the Era Indomitus and Rowboat's revival the Custodes had not left the Imperial Palace since the Horus Heresy, and the Black Ships were run exclusively by the Sisters of Silence.
 
If only Paul had a power ring capable of miracles that could wake that Demigod early... Oh wait

And if only Guilliman wasn't in one of the most heavily protected places in the known universe.

And if only he didn't have a physiology that's vastly different compared to a regular human that would make Paul hesitant to work on.

And if only he didn't have a history of serving a xenophobic, fascist regime that engaged in things like genocide and slavery on the regular.

Seriosly, people may claim that Guilliman was one of the nicer Primarchs, but it doesn't take much to be better than a lot of the rest, and the Imperium was a nightmare even before the Heresy, so yeah, it's not that surprising that someone would be hesitant to revive him.

No, because because people would still want Power, Immortality, Forbidden Knowledge, and Depraved Sex.

The only way to stop that would be destroying Chaos or giving them those things to a greater degree then Chaos can. (Which the Tau can't do.)

They'd still want those things in the Imperium.

At least with the Tau most people will get better living standards.

No? It's becoming really clear you don't know much about the setting outside of the wikia and fan fiction.

No, I've read the material, and it's pretty clear that the Imperium mainly survives due to Doylist reasons, because otherwise they would have had massive rebellions occurring on pretty much every planet.

And you clearly seemed to forget that the only reason the Imperium is currently surviving in the setting is because a very convoluted deus ex machina was pulled off with Guilliman's revival.
 
No? It's becoming really clear you don't know much about the setting outside of the wikia and fan fiction.

No, they are correct on that point. For example GW constantly has to make the Tyranids act as moronically as possible to ensure they don't auto-wipe the Imperium, or really anyone that isn't the Necrons. GW also sucks at math, surprising given what their game is, since giving the Tyranids the ability to turn all useful matter on a planet into biomass "should" mean that even a fortress world would have to deal with ridiculous ratios like every 6 guardsmen having to kill 1 bio-titan in order to repel the attack on top of everything else being thrown at them. Or their ability to penetrate the crust of a planet with deep spawning pools should permanently ruin planets and make retaking planets completely pointless they since they also have the ability to convert all microbial life on a planet to Tyranid bioforms. Yet somehow that doesn't seem to matter when it's some important named world, doubly so when the world is important to a space marine chapter.

The simple reality is that at some point GW decided that they were going to pretend that the Imperium, and functionally every other faction, has infinite resources. It's more blatant with the Tau, but the imperium literally got cut in half by a giant daemon chasm and it functionally meant nothing, heck by some measures they are stronger than ever at this point.
 
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but the imperium literally got cut in half by a giant daemon chasm and it functionally meant nothing, heck by some measures they are stronger than ever at this point.
That bit could potentially be explained by Guilliman just using the resources they have in a more intelligent and effective way and not throwing them away in pointless and self-destructive endeavors like the previous leaders.

Even if the lost a lot of resources, they're now using the ones they have better.
 
Ah, one of Superman's old girlfriends, at least in the Silver Age. The local one is a minor student alongside Kaldur, Garth and Tula. But she's met OL, so...
For reference:
Exaltations (part 11)
Exaltations (part 12)
Displaced (part 9)
Displaced (part 10)
Minutes (part 2)
Minutes (part 3)
Insincerity (part 1)
Widdershins (part 17) - referenced as the maker of an order of Paul's Mageslayer rounds, but offscreen
Possibly a few other places, but those were the easy ones.

Old-times-were-better leader whose name is literally "Aryan" champions regressive racial policies. I am shocked, shocked.

I honestly didn't see the connection, but damn.
There's a tendency for naming in DC to be implausibly on-the-nose. Paul has remarked upon it out loud at least once. See Ways and Means (part 4)
24th January
03:34 GMT -8


The completely generic construct Controller takes a moment to look at us, though he doesn't affect any particular emotion. 'Effigy' comes to attention slightly, so I'm going to assume that this is indeed the Controller he's affiliated to. Hinon looks.. mildly satisfied? I'm guessing that she was reasonably confident she knew who it was in advance and just got confirmation.

"It appears, Jevek Jos Jar, that we have had a slight breakdown in communications."

"That would imply that we were attempting to communicate. I have been occupied with my own research, as have you."

"You were researching the Burning Martian?"

"I am continuing to research the Burning Martian. I believe that I could use it as the basis for a new type of powerful and controllable weapon-servitor. In addition, I have been studying your own species. Amongst the range of 'meta human' abilities there were some that appeared to synergise well with certain aspects of martian physiology." The image turns to face Effigy. "Martyn van Wyck was a minor telekinetic-."

I can't stop my face twitching at the idea of someone named 'Wyck' having hair made of fire. Wick, burning… Is it an aspect of the universe's magic I don't understand? Did the Controller go through a huge list of people with minor mental talents and pick the one with the best-sounding name?

"Does this amuse you, Illustres?"

"You gave a person called 'wick' fire powers." Mr van Wyck narrows his eyes for a moment, then shrugs. "I realise that some Maltusians lack a sense of humour-."

"Yes, his name sounds somewhat like the English word 'wick', but that was not part of the selection criteria. His innate telekinetic abilities reduced the time it took for his brain to adapt to the modifications I made. That was why he was selected."

"And you gave him a choice?"

"He could have refused. A willing participant is far better placed to provide me with good data than one whose brain I have had to program in order to compel loyalty."
I wouldn't be surprised if it had come up in the Ambush Bug sequence, but I wasn't able to find a reference quickly.
 
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