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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I take it that P'ul already scanned and the tech and all the databases on the ship and handed everything to the Empire's R&D people. Rehabilitating the AI is all well and good but that tech can save a lot of people and there is no reason to let it sit there.
Assuming he could do it.

DAOT humans had access to some pretty impressive tech, so they may have something that can interfere with a ring scan.
 
6 983 941.M41

This is taking too long.

And I don't mean walking through the partially-reconstructed and surprisingly Starfleet-looking halls of the Spirit of Eternity. Normal physical activity is a relief after I've spent… What, a couple of days? Ferrying ships around and trying to destroy tyranid capital ships. I remember reading in Codex: Tyranids that it's easier to destroy them with boarding parties before they get close to a system and start waking the tyranids on board up, and… It is, especially with XV46s and actual nuclear demolition charges, but there's a difference between easier and easy. And since my part of the operation just involved floating there and trying to stop the Norn Queen noticing anything -which it turns out isn't actually possible- I… I need some actual physical activity at the moment.
Man, talk about some obscure lore deep cuts. As for the decor, I suspect after any amount of time aboard an Imperial vessel, anything without gothic architecture, skulls and incense will feel relaxing.

"Ship, how are the repairs going?"

"Adequately."
Surprised the On-board General Intelligence hasn't devised a usename fro contact with its crew or guests.

I don't really remember much about A.I. in the grim dark future of the 41st millennium. There was a standard template construct device in Gaunt's Ghosts that made combat robots, and there was that one A.I. in Pax Imperialis… And that's about it. Unless you count the accumulated residues in titan mind-impulse units, but honestly I'd have thought that the Mechanicus would be all over that sort of technology.
AI is a literal crapshoot in Warhammer 40k, what with the high risk of daemonic possession or murderous psychopathy. There's a reason the Mechanicum call them 'Abominable Intelligences', after all.

According to my host, I would have been very, very wrong.

"Have the repair teams been helpful?"

"Barely."
Though they're probably taking copious notes during their observations.

Which isn't too surprising, really. He wasn't keen on having anything to do with the tau in the first place, and the technology that's supposed to make up Spirit of Eternity is way in advance of anything the tau have. Except that one ship from their moon, and…

Bloody tyranids and their inconvenient invasion not letting me finish my work.
Ah, the possibly-Maltusian vessel's study was interrupted, of course.

So the tau are mostly just bringing in raw materials for Spirit of Eternity's drones to work with, and doing… Work that's well below their level, like painting and decorating. And while Spirit of Eternity isn't that big by modern standards, he wouldn't allow all that many fio'vre on board, and was positively insulted by their engineering drones.
No doubt making sure all signage is in Tau, Federation standard and English...

"I, ah… I did take a look, but…" I sigh. "I'm sorry. I thought that the Mechanicus might have kept their.. bodies for research, but apparently they didn't even find out that your crew had surrendered until after they were all killed… They burned the bodies."

"I am not surprised."
I would have hoped they'd have taken a moment to observe from a distance before approaching an unknown world...

"I just wish they'd be a bit consistent, you know?"

"They are consistently disappointing."
Well, compared to Federation-era standards, they are medieval peasants with salvaged hypertech...

"Really?" I find myself patting the bulkhead lintel as I walk through. "I find them inconsistently disappointing. Like, sometimes you can have a rational conversation, and they'll do something sensible, and then at other times…"

They'll burn the crew of a ship from humanity's golden age to death for asking 'Emperor who?'. They things we could have learned
And some people wonder why others think the Imperials are evil. To be fair, they are zealously religous and trained to be excessively paranoid about 'heresy'...

"Anyway, have you given any more thought to my proposal?"

"I had fully analysed your proposal within seconds of receiving it."
Only natural. Wonder if he ever got bored waiting for the crew to catch up with his electronic reflexes?

"Alright, no need to get snitty. You didn't have an answer last time so I thought you were thinking it over."

"Did the Inquisitor take the music records?"
Ah, not that interested in whatever P'ol suggested, then.

"Yes. I don't know if she'll actually listen to it, but she took it and didn't immediately destroy it in front of me. If I had to guess-."

"She will perform whatever passes for an intelligence analysis among these people, archive it and then dismiss it."
Which probably consists of transcribing the lyrics, checking them for heresy, and praying. Assuming they can translate them (I assume P'ol provided his own translations.)

"Yeah, probably. But at least a few bored dialogous sororitas will get to hear it."

"I hate everything about that sentence."
Not least the rather scrappy Latin use. Technically correct but ugly.

"Look… Fixing the universe isn't going to be a quick or easy job. You're amazing, but you're one ship and it's pretty clear that you're not doing all that well, psychologically speaking."

"You are not qualified to make that assessment."
If he's advanced enough, he probably has visible emotional networks, of which P'ol can sense the Desire framework.

"I.. kind of am. Or at least more qualified than anyone else alive. Apart from the Emperor, presumably." I frown, considering the chance of a collapsing gestalt being able to get the relevant parts of its memories in the right place long enough to make an assessment. "Maybe even than him. Does your library have Andromeda in it?"
Honestly, it's not clear which would be better for the Imperium: The Emperor dying (which extinguishes the Astronomican at minimum, and possibly unleashes a fifth Chaos God for good measure) or him reassembling and reviving. At which point a lot of people get killed because 'What the fuck did you do to my empire!' is likely to be his first response. And the current leadership will probably take that poorly.

"I have thousands of works containing the word Andromeda. Andromeda what?"

"By Gene Roddenberry?"
Yes, he did other things than 'Star Trek'. Sadly, he didn't live to see it air.

"No."

"Darn, because their ships worked a bit like you. Except they also had disassociative identity disorder because their android avatars technically had a separate cognition system."
That seems exceptionally foolish. Probably because they didn't consider the full implications of the concept.

"That is nothing like how I work."

"They tended to go a bit strange without crew to interact with, too."
Isolation is a terrible thing for a social animal like Humanity, and that applies to the things we create in our image.

"Are you going somewhere?"

I stop and look at the signage. "I think I'm going to your bridge."
...Not what he meant, but then, he didn't specify.

"I reluctantly admit that you have a point."

"So I am going in the right direction, or-?"
Ah, classic 'are we talking about the same thing, or..?' misunderstandings. Age-old comedy.

"You are correct that I am starved for interaction. I am actually enjoying this banter. You are making me experience joy."

I blink. "Damn."

"What do you suggest?"
Well, that's better than some people alternate Pauls interact with. Just look at Inquisitor Vail back there.

"There are a couple of human habitats that the Imperium's abandoned because they know they can't defend them. We can't either, but we have a couple of worlds further into Tau Empire territory where we can put them. Now, they don't have enough indoctrination into the Greater Good to integrate with the Empire, but I've talked to a few people are we're… Thinking about offering you the position of colony oversight system."
And defence platform, because Federation-era starship. Even a pleasure yacht could have weapons far in excess of anything modern Human vessels posess.

"Humans of the Imperium."

"We've got to start somewhere and sometime. You can't go into combat until your repairs are finished, but your cognition systems and sensors are fine. We can move a space dock to the planet-."
Well, once he gets them to stop praying to or screaming 'Abominable Intelligence' at him, he might get along with them.

"A tau space dock is superfluous to requirements."

"Would an automatic mining rig be better?"
Probably easier to work with for resupply...

"Barely. And you want me to uplift these humans?"

"They'll be cut off from Imperial institutions and in a radically unfamiliar environment. They'll need to listen to you. Now I don't expect that they'll get to anything like the level humans used to have for four or five generations at least, but…"
He has nothing but time, after all.

"It is a start."

"And it gives you people to talk to when I'm not here. More than one person, so you don't develop an unhealthy fixation on me."
Since the Tau probably aren't the greatest conversationalists even without a language barrier.

"Owning calendars with nude images is perfectly normal. Many of my crew owned such things."

O-kay… He's making jokes now? That's… That's a good sign.

I think.
Why do I suspect he's got a room filled with just such things, likely produced via generative VI and physical scans?

I'm sure we're all trying to remember where P'ol encountered this fellow, but personally, I'm drawing a blank. At any rate, having such a useful ally is probably beneficial to P'ol's plans.And once he's combat-capable, he might be a potent ally in the field, if they feel the need to risk him against Tyranid bio-Fleets. Which is super-risky, definitely...
 
6 983 941.M41

This is taking too long.

This is going somewhere. Far better mindset then what was put forward with the whole 'reason you suck'. Humanity was mental and spiritually fucked up by the fall of the golden age. Hard to trust AI again after a galaxy spanning war of annihilation. This isn't helped by that piece3 of dragon fucking with humanity on the down low for tens of thousand of years. Reform isn't something that will happen fast, and as long as you point the Tau to expand away from the Empire. Counter clockwise, there is nothing out there that the Empire still holds on to. Meanwhile the Ring is a OCP so when the Tau don't need him, he can expose chaos, corruption that the imperium can't ignore, and cause the worst of sector and planet leadership to have 'accidents'. At the very least any cogboy with a focus on innovation will find themselves suddenly very lucky.

But this is mostly wishful thinking. Ironically the best step would be healing blueboy, as in his books he comments on these same problems. He is just too busy fighting off his shit head brothers, and dealing with the galaxy spanning crack in reality to do a lot of work in that direction.
 
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AI is a literal crapshoot in Warhammer 40k, what with the high risk of daemonic possession or murderous psychopathy. There's a reason the Mechanicum call them 'Abominable Intelligences', after all.
Given the many AI we see that don't get possessed at the drop of a hat? I'm willing to bet money on the Mechanicus not being all that right about AI. Like, the STC making Iron Men in Gaunts' Ghosts had been sitting on a Chaos controlled planet for centuries or millennia; that's hardly normal circumstances. The Tau seem to be managing just fine. The Votann, not so much, but that's due to the Kin overloading them with junk data, not Chaos.

I'd go so far as to say that an AI's ability to become corrupted by Chaos would depend on its own personality just as much as it does for a human. No more or less fallible than any other sapient.

We still don't even know why the MoI rebelled. It could have been a standard slave revolt, widespread Chaos corruption, Aeldari Dominion fuckery, the Void Dragon playing silly buggers, or even them thinking the only way to save humanity from Warp corruption was to kill us off--or even all of the above and then some! It's not like humanity was a monolithic singular entity in the Golden Age.
 
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If he's advanced enough, he probably has visible emotional networks, of which P'ol can sense the Desire framework.
AI's don't get emotions in 40k due to emotions originating from the Warp, so if you see any AI possessing them it's either not actually an AI, a Chaos Daemon pretending to be an AI, or a Mr Zoat rewrite.

Honestly, it's not clear which would be better for the Imperium: The Emperor dying (which extinguishes the Astronomican at minimum, and possibly unleashes a fifth Chaos God for good measure) or him reassembling and reviving. At which point a lot of people get killed because 'What the fuck did you do to my empire!' is likely to be his first response. And the current leadership will probably take that poorly.
The Emperor woke up for 30 or so seconds recently, he seemed relatively chill with things outside of blasting Nurgal with enough power to seriously wound him.

And defence platform, because Federation-era starship. Even a pleasure yacht could have weapons far in excess of anything modern Human vessels posess.
They do not.

We know this because the Votann fleets are DAoT era merchant technology and are less effect in combat then modern Imperium battleships.
 
As for the decor, I suspect after any amount of time aboard an Imperial vessel, anything without gothic architecture, skulls and incense will feel relaxing.

Heh.

I'm reminded of a one-shot where the Primarchs are all women and Lkrgar berates the Emperor fir burning Monarchia.

Apparently the Primarchs got together and used their skills and talents to build a city that would serve as a monument to secularism.

When the Emperor tried to protest that it looked like a church, his daughter just told him that everything in the damned Imperium looks like a church.

Surprised the On-board General Intelligence hasn't devised a usename fro contact with its crew or guests.

He may have had one, but doesn't want to use it with anyone that isn't a member of his crew.

I would have hoped they'd have taken a moment to observe from a distance before approaching an unknown world

They did view the end of the universe while in transit.

They probably thought telling people about that was more important than doing surveillance.

Yes, he did other things than 'Star Trek'. Sadly, he didn't live to see it air.

Plus, aside from Star Trek, most of his other work hasn't reached a level of a massive franchise like Trek did.

Well, once he gets them to stop praying to or screaming 'Abominable Intelligence' at him, he might get along with them.

I wonder if the average Imperial would even know what an AI is.
 
Given the many AI we see that don't get possessed at the drop of a hat? I'm willing to bet money on the Mechanicus not being all that right about AI. Like, the STC making Iron Men in Gaunts' Ghosts had been sitting on a Chaos controlled planet for centuries or millennia; that's hardly normal circumstances. The Tau seem to be managing just fine. The Votann, not so much, but that's due to the Kin overloading them with junk data, not Chaos.

I'd go so far as to say that an AI's ability to become corrupted by Chaos would depend on its own personality just as much as it does for a human. No more or less fallible than any other sapient.

We still don't even know why the MoI rebelled. It could have been a standard slave revolt, widespread Chaos corruption, Aeldari Dominion fuckery, the Void Dragon playing silly buggers, or even them thinking the only way to save humanity from Warp corruption was to kill us off--or even all of the above and then some! It's not like humanity was a monolithic singular entity in the Golden Age.
General reminder that the thing that lets normal people resist Chaos is a positive or negative warp presence.

And the thing that lets Imperium machines resist Chaos corruption the small bits they do is the actually effective blessings the ad-mech put on them.

And no, the Tau were not managing just fine, a single chaos fleet almost wiped them out and only didnt because the Tau sacrificed every non-tau on the Startide Nexus fleet to create a Greater Daemon of the Greater Good.
 
General reminder that the thing that lets normal people resist Chaos is a positive or negative warp presence.

And the thing that lets Imperium machines resist Chaos corruption the small bits they do is the actually effective blessings the ad-mech put on them.

And no, the Tau were not managing just fine, a single chaos fleet almost wiped them out and only didnt because the Tau sacrificed every non-tau on the Startide Nexus fleet to create a Greater Daemon of the Greater Good.

Oh vae, another grandiose statement wrong in almost every particular solely to prove a point about something nonsensical and fictional that no one else care about.

Never change.
 
A lot of the tech that they use isn't really military tech. Space Marines armor and Knights were basically considered mining equipment and logging equipment.
I don't think that's quite true. Terminator Armour is based on reactor maintenance protective suits, but even the Imperium has modified them a bit. And since this is a 2nd Edition story, we're going with the 2nd Edition description of Knight Worlds: human worlds that reverted to primitivism during the Age of Isolation and were rediscovered by Mechanicus exporation fleets.
I remember reading a fanfic where a scientist from the DAOT said that the warships the Imperium uses were colony ships. And not even the most recent designs before the collapse, so I was wondering if that's canon.
I doubt it. Chaos ships in Battlefleet Gothic are what the Imperium used to use, so they are changing the design a bit. Mode likely they crib a few systems off records relating to colony ships because that's all they have.
I wouldn't bet on that.

He's prejudiced as hell against most things, AI included, and unless he can brainwash people, his social skills are very, very weak.
Only in the Horus Heresy series, which I don't think much of.
Thank you, corrected.
No, I think that's right.
 
I take it that P'ul already scanned and the tech and all the databases on the ship and handed everything to the Empire's R&D people. Rehabilitating the AI is all well and good but that tech can save a lot of people and there is no reason to let it sit there.
Assuming he could do it.

DAOT humans had access to some pretty impressive tech, so they may have something that can interfere with a ring scan.
He hasn't. Oh, he scanned a few local systems when he first boarded it, but he isn't trying to penetrate the database. He knows that the AI is very sensitive about the whole situation and doesn't want to do anything that would set it off. It's not like the tau are advanced enough to put anything in there into production immediately anyway.
AI is a literal crapshoot in Warhammer 40k, what with the high risk of daemonic possession or murderous psychopathy. There's a reason the Mechanicum call them 'Abominable Intelligences', after all.
That's a fairly recent addition to the background. As far as I remember, the first mention of 'Men of Iron' was in Gaunt's Ghost, where they were simple combat robots. The next was in the 3rd Edition rulebook, where a deranged Imperial historian regurgitated some nonsense half-remembered stories about pre-Imperial history where he mentioned Men of Stone, Men of Iron and Men of Gold, and it sounded like he was talking about types of augmentation or political parties. The modern 'AI=Abominable Intelligence=Men of Iron' is a recent lore addition.
That seems exceptionally foolish. Probably because they didn't consider the full implications of the concept.
No, there was an episode where the ship's mind got damaged and the mobile unit was the only thing that remembered what was going on.
Since the Tau probably aren't the greatest conversationalists even without a language barrier.
A dissadvantage of the caste system. If they'd sent a few water caste members it would be going better.
Why do I suspect he's got a room filled with just such things, likely produced via generative VI and physical scans?
Because you secretly lust for my naked body?

You could do better.
I'm sure we're all trying to remember where P'ol encountered this fellow, but personally, I'm drawing a blank.
Off screen.
This isn't helped by that piece3 of dragon fucking with humanity on the down low for tens of thousand of years.
Nope. 3rd Edition Codex Necrons. There are 4 c'tan, and they're whole.
But this is mostly wishful thinking. Ironically the best step would be healing blueboy, as in his books he comments on these same problems.
Horus Heresy books. In-universe, from the SI's point of view, having a more efficient Imperium isn't necessarily a good thing, even if he could guarantee breaching the statis fields around and healing a poison he can't analyse before he breaches them, which he can't.
I'm reminded of a one-shot where the Primarchs are all women and Lkrgar berates the Emperor fir burning Monarchia.
The whole Monarchia thing comes from the Horus Heresy novels. The previous version was less stupid.
I wonder if the average Imperial would even know what an AI is.
I've seen things in recent fanfiction which suggest to me that GW has had the Imperium write the traitor primarchs out of history.
 
The Imperium isn't fascist. it's actually very medieval, with a hereditary aristocracy bound together by feudal obligations and a few shared institutions.

It's an unholy amalgam, and its aesthetics are feudal, but it owes at least as much to modern autocracy as to the Holy Roman Empire roots of WHFB Empire it gets most of the feudal structure from. The balancing tactics of making all armed forces and political power be counterbalanced against other sources of powers to prevent possibility of coup is a much more modern technique. (There's a fascinating essay on this called Why Arabs Lose Wars.)

On fascism specifically, there's that big list of criteria and it hits most of them, but the things I find most compelling are the us vs. them ideology and the totalitarian control of anything that might conceivably be a source of power forcing it to be part of the state apparatus. Religion, industry, shipping, etc., are all strictly regulated and controlled by the centralized bureaucracy to the exclusion of efficiency. That's something no feudal system would have tolerated, nor would they be capable of it. It could be considered Totalitarianism NOS, but the 'heretic, mutant, and xeno' aspect makes it hard to argue it's not fascism, that's very deliberate.

I mean if you study modern history what you learn is that caste systems work perfectly well when the culture is correctly structured around them: The most populous nation on the entire planet has run just fine on a caste system for thousands of years.

There is more to the world than just Europe and European history.

India rarely had great success except in periods when it had recently been invaded from outside and acquired a new ruling class less brain poisoned by the caste system. They were also for basically their entire history essentially immune from attack by anyone who didn't have a caste system, and so not really testing the hypothesis. And then they had to contest the invasion of someone else and they haven't been a meaningful political power since, despite unifying into a much bigger state that ought to have a lot of power.

Caste systems, in addition to being moral atrocities of the highest order, are absolutely ruinous to prosperity, innovation, and governance. No society with a caste system has been able to contest a peer-sized society with a significanty weaker (or nonexistent) one for long. The Hellenistic kingdoms fell to Rome. Nazi Germany fell to the Allies. And India's composite kingdoms fell to... well, everybody who got the chance, really.
 

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