With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Whenever Possible]

I could see Ahri'ahn trying to do something similar to what Harun al-Rashid did with moving his kingdom into the dreaming and creating a sort of memetically idealized version of itself.

Maybe overlaying an/his idea if Atlantis over the real Atlantis, leaving the people as quasi-sleepwalking puppet/citizen/servants?

 

[Ngamer11]

I could see Ahri'ahn trying to do something similar to what Harun al-Rashid did with moving his kingdom into the dreaming and creating a sort of memetically idealized version of itself.

Maybe overlaying an/his idea if Atlantis over the real Atlantis, leaving the people as quasi-sleepwalking puppet/citizen/servants?

Click to shrink...

That guy accomplished that thanks to Dream's permission. Ahri'ahn would dislike Dream on principle alone, so whatever plan he has should only affect the physical world.

 

[Whenever Possible]

That guy accomplished that thanks to Dream's permission. Ahri'ahn would dislike Dream on principle alone, so whatever plan he has should only affect the physical world.

Click to shrink...

Would Ahri'ahn let his dislike for Dream stop him from trying to exploit the Dream for his benefit, though?

And he was interested in Paul's mention of the Dreamstorm, which could be just arcane curiosity but might also be foreshadowing.

 

[Ngamer11]

Would Ahri'ahn let his dislike for Dream stop him from trying to exploit the Dream for his benefit, though?

And he was interested in Paul's mention of the Dreamstorm, which could be just arcane curiosity but might also be foreshadowing.

Click to shrink...

Probably not. Dealing with Dream of the Endless himself goes against his beliefs, but making use of the Dream itself for his own ends is perfectly fine with him, so he might be doing something with it now or he might not.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Steven turns to Robert as the three of us swim after her.
...clearly having a direction in mind...
She looks mildly disappointed, but snatches the stone...
I hold up my left hand for a moment, showing my ring.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[BR549]

Probably not. Dealing with Dream of the Endless himself goes against his beliefs, but making use of the Dream itself for his own ends is perfectly fine with him, so he might be doing something with it now or he might not.

Click to shrink...

Of course, doing the latter will, eventually, inevitably lead to the former being required, not requested, by a rather annoyed Morpheus...

 

[Vaermina]

My point is that either AIs are either perfectly safe to operate as long as their systems are insulated from warp energies or even just physically kept away from chaos or, if AIs have enough "personhood" to generate a warp presence, then only a % of AIs comparable to the standard for sentient populations would be expected to fall to Chaos, leaving plenty that could still operate normally.

Click to shrink...

It's the first.

However the problem is only the Necrons and Empyric Engineers can insulate technologies from Warp energies.

And the only things capable of physically keeping Chaos away are Necrons, Wards, and Blanks.

For everything else it's just a question of how much Chaos wants to get you. And I'm not exhagurating about that either, as the Chaos Gods once reached into the Emperor's heavily protected secret lab to scatter the Primarchs across the galaxy.

Actually strike that, it doesnt even have to be Chaos wanting a thing, it could literally just be someone uploading a copy of a Chaos Tome onto the local datanet, because that happened once and basically destroyed an entire alien species.

 

[Stsword]

He's...cutting himself to feel alive...

Click to shrink...

He's probably using blood magic, hence the reminder of Lamprey, the Crime Syndicate world version of Kaldur who uses shark-person blood magic.

 

[Prince Charon]

Aqualad's counterpart from Earth -14. He ate his version of Tempest and is married to Aquagirl's counterpart against the latter's will.

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She might kill him eventually (or it could have already happened off-screen) because of that, but we won't know for sure unless the author says something.

 

[Ngamer11]

She might kill him eventually (or it could have already happened off-screen) because of that, but we won't know for sure unless the author says something.

Click to shrink...

She tried, but due to her arrogance and ignorance, she used poisoned food. As such, it did nothing and he subsequently ate one of her eyes, ears, and fingers. He can now see, hear, and feel whatever she does whenever he wants.

 

[Prince Charon]

She tried, but due to her arrogance and ignorance, she used poisoned food. As such, it did nothing and he subsequently ate one of her eyes, ears, and fingers. He can now see, hear, and feel whatever she does whenever he wants.

Click to shrink...

Ah. I'd forgotten that until now. Of course, he could still get kill by someone else.

 

[Mr Zoat]

7th May 2013
03:16 GMT -1

"What happened when the Anti-Life broadcast happened?"

"Anti… Life." He glances at Steven. "We've got defences against that sort of thing and it blew right through them. Have you ever seen a fish drown?"

"No, but I know it can happen if there isn't any oxygen dissolved in the water."

"Have you ever seen a fish drown because they shut their gills?"

"No I didn't think that was something Atlanteans could do."

"I didn't, either. Things were bad on the surface, too?"

"Yes. We'll likely never know how bad. Where did the shields come from? If it blocked the Anti-Life, we could have really used something like that."

"A rushed implementation of an old spell."

"One of Ahri'ahn's?"

"Probably. Or it might not have been. People have tried to raise Atlantis before, and it used some of the preparations they made. I think the High Queen was the spell's focus… There might be a handful of other people in Atlantis who could handle it."

"Which explains why Venturia was included. What did the shield do, exactly?"

"'Exactly'? I don't know. That sort of magic is far more advanced than anything I've studied."

"Roughly, then. John Constantine managed to cut Reformation Island out of the world and protect it that way, but that didn't seem to be what happened here."

"The shield we used didn't cut the cities out of the world, it cut a dome out of the world around the city. Nothing got in or out. It stopped the Anti-Life, though we weren't eating all that well for a while."

"And King Orin was still around when that happened?"

"He was. Because of how the shield worked, all the cities could still send messages to each other. It wasn't-."

"And where were you?"

"Here."

"And King Orin was in Poseidonis?" He tilts his head slightly to the side. "Then you saying that he was in communication is what we on the surface call 'hearsay'. There are a lot of ways to fake messages with magic."

"That's possible. Lori, was High King Orin around then?"

She thinks for a moment. "I… I'm not sure. I didn't see him, but everyone was busy setting up the new farms or feeding power into the shield spell. I don't know. He's the king; we didn't see him very often when things were normal."

"And what about Queen Mera?"

"She was definitely there, but she was… Exhausted. Most of our teachers were. Creating and maintaining the spell took a lot of effort."

"Why did you leave it up for so long? It took us a month to remove the Anti-Life, but it's been four months since then."

King Sha'ark snorts. "It wasn't my decision. But it made sense. We didn't have much of an idea what was happening outside, and most of the people who could have scryed past it were working themselves to the bone just keeping it working."

"You didn't feel what we did to end the broadcast?"

He blinks. "I still don't know what you did to end the broadcast."

"Basically, we used Mannheim's own network to broadcast… The essence of emotionality across the world. It broke Darkseid's hold on Mannheim himself and destroyed the Anti-Life fragment he was using."

"And it's just… Gone?"

"No, it's just not being broadcast over Earth anymore. The Anti-Life is actually an ever-present fact of life, a thing… Built into the universe? Things… People can break in certain ways, and by studying that Darkseid is able to project a state of brokenness over an area. He used a criminal called Bruno Mannheim as his vessel."

"And now he's dead."

"No."

He grits his teeth. "Why not?"

"Mannheim may have voluntarily come under Darkseid's sway, but he wasn't in control of his actions after that point. He's alive and well and has thoroughly learned his lesson."

Atlantean law is a lot better about covering magic-induced corner cases than surface world legal systems. A person who got involuntarily possesses isn't guilty of the crimes their domitor committed, though they might be detained out of concern that its control could be reasserted. A person who is voluntarily possessed on the other hand might be partially or wholly guilty depending on the circumstances. As such, what I'm telling King Sha'ark isn't something that he would consider completely unreasonable, unlike most surface world people who hadn't heard of Bruno Mannheim until the broadcast.

"What about Darkseid? Did he die?"

"I doubt that Darkseid himself even felt it. Darkseid is a… Long term target. Very long term. Human civilisation collapsed because he turned a tiny fragment of his attention our way. We are not ready."

He glowers. "I don't like that."

"You're not supposed to." I shake my head. "So where is Queen Mera now?"

Miss Lamaris shakes her head. "I don't know. The 'impure' were moved out of the city before the city was raised out of the water."

"Before or after the shield went down?"

"Before." She nods. "So she was probably still there until then."

"It's more of a lead than we've got on King Orin. How do Atlantean succession laws work?"

She twitches slightly, her eyes flicking to King Sha'ark. "By default, she would be Prince Artur's regent, but only if King Orin is dead. She couldn't just take over if he actually appointed Ahri'ahn to govern while he is away."

"And is it actually Ahri'ahn?"

King Sha'ark snorts. "Ahri'ahn died thousands of years ago. How would we know?"

Miss Lamaris shrugs. "He's powerful, and he knows a lot about magic. I don't think it matters whether it's actually him or not."

I nod. "When did he show up?"

Miss Lamaris's eyes dip. "A few days after the shield went up. I saw him hanging around the Conservatory a few times before the announcement. I didn't know who he was."

"How did he react to you?"

"Because of my tail?" I nod. "He was surprised that I was a student, but that was about it. He didn't start shouting at me for being impure. I think-."

"You're not supposed to be here."

I jerk my head around as.. a couple of King Sha'ark's guard start moving towards us, the shark woman who first blocked us taking the lead.

King Sha'ark bares his teeth. "Their place is where I say it is. Stand down!"

"You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here."

Their eyes are slightly unfocused and.. their desires occluded.

"You're not supposed to be here."

Something's affecting them-.

The shark woman lunges!

 

[Darko]

know if can happen

Click to shrink...

"it can"

"Have you ever seen a fish drown because they shut their gills?"

"No I didn't think that was something Atlanteans could do."

"I didn't, either

Click to shrink...

Well Kaldur's people may be able to do it.

"Probably. Or it might not have been. People have tried to raise Atlantis before, and it used some of the preparations they made

Click to shrink...

I'm guessing the shield was in place in case of a backlash.

And is it actually Ahri'ahn

Click to shrink...

Heh.

Well it certainly wasn't in the show.

You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here."

Click to shrink...

That's not creepy at all.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

7th May 2013
03:16 GMT -1

"What happened when the Anti-Life broadcast happened?"

"Anti… Life." He glances at Steven. "We've got defences against that sort of thing and it blew right through them. Have you ever seen a fish drown?"

Click to shrink...

...That would take an impressive amount of suicidal impulses. A person can't commit suicide by holding their breath, because instinct forces them to breathe long before they'd run out of oxygen. One might try to swim for the surface and beach itself, but only if it were close enough to realise and try...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"No, but I know if can happen if there isn't any oxygen dissolved in the water."

"Have you ever seen a fish drown because they shut their gills?"

Click to shrink...

Again, instinct will kick in long before they suffocate themselves. But with an outside influence driving them... It could happen.

"No I didn't think that was something Atlanteans could do."

"I didn't, either. Things were bad on the surface, too?"

Click to shrink...

So much worse. Try 'people not even bothering to eat.' levels of apathy.

"Yes. We'll likely never know how bad. Where did the shields come from? If it blocked the Anti-Life, we could have really used something like that."

"A rushed implementation of an old spell."

Click to shrink...

Let me guess, something Ahri'ahn left around in case of future danger.

"One of Ahri'ahn's?"

"Probably. Or it might not have been. People have tried to raise Atlantis before, and it used some of the preparations they made. I think the High Queen was the spell's focus… There might be a handful of other people in Atlantis who could handle it."

Click to shrink...

But they would be few and far between...

"Which explains why Venturia was included. What did the shield do, exactly?"

"'Exactly'? I don't know. That sort of magic is far more advanced than anything I've studied."

Click to shrink...

And so we still only have Ahri'ahn's word for what it did.

"Roughly, then. John Constantine managed to cut Reformation Island out of the world and protect it that way, but that didn't seem to be what happened here."

"The shield we used didn't cut the cities out of the world, it cut a dome out of the world around the city. Nothing got in or out. It stopped the Anti-Life, though we weren't eating all that well for a while."

Click to shrink...

Like a vacuum flask, creating a buffer of non-existence against outside influence.

"And King Orin was still around when that happened?"

"He was. Because of how the shield worked, all the cities could still end messages to each other. It wasn't-."

Click to shrink...

And dolmen gates, supposedly. Presumably a matter of synchronising frequencies, so to speak.

"And where were you?"

"Here."

"And King Orin was in Poseidonis?" He tilts his head slightly to the side. "Then you saying that he was in communication is what we on the surface call 'hearsay'. There are a lot of ways to fake messages with magic."

Click to shrink...

ah. So Orin could have been nobbled early on, and someone else speaking using his voice, if they even got vocal messages instead of tossing texts through.

"That's possible. Lori, was High King Orin around then?"

She thinks for a moment. "I… I'm not sure. I didn't see him, but everyone was busy setting up the new farms or feeding power into the shield spell. I don't know. He's the king; we didn't see him very often when things were normal."

Click to shrink...

And as a warrior, he wouldn't have been much use in the shield operations. So no reason for him to hang around anyway.

"And what about Queen Mera?"

"She was definitely there, but she was… Exhausted. Most of our teachers were. Creating and maintaining the spell took a lot of effort."

Click to shrink...

With many of the students contributing their own energies to help sustain it.

"Why did you leave it up for so long? It took us a month to remove the Anti-Life, but it's been four months since then."

King Sha'ark snorts. "It wasn't my decision. But it made sense. We didn't have much of an idea what was happening outside, and most of the people who could have scryed past it were working themselves to the bone just keeping it working."

Click to shrink...

And given the effects, it was either 'hope they fought it off' or 'the outside world is probably dead, we may as well join them...'

"You didn't feel what we did to end the broadcast?"

He blinks. "I still don't know what you did to end the broadcast."

Click to shrink...

Huh. So all of Atlantis missed the White Light event.

"Basically, we used Mannheim's own network to broadcast… The essence of emotionality across the world. It broke Darkseid's hold on Mannheim himself and destroyed the Anti-Life fragment he was using."

"And it's just… Gone?"

Click to shrink...

A simplified version, but even if they're decent magic students, there's a wide gap between the knowledge needed to fully understand things and the cliff notes version.

"No, it's just not being broadcast over Earth anymore. The Anti-Life is actually an ever-present fact of life, a thing… Built into the universe? Things… People can break in certain ways, and by studying that Darkseid is able to project a state of brokenness over an area. He used a criminal called Bruno Mannheim as his vessel."

Click to shrink...

Of course, I'm amazed no-one's realised that if there's an anti-life equation, then there must be something for it to be 'anti' against. Then again, we haven't seen much beyond OL's perspective. Who knows what minor event could be happening somewhere else?

"And now he's dead."

"No."

Click to shrink...

still seems an oversight, be he was utterly repentant...

He grits his teeth. "Why not?"

"Mannheim may have voluntarily come under Darkseid's sway, but he wasn't in control of his actions after that point. He's alive and well and has thoroughly learned his lesson."

Click to shrink...

Though I expect some still feel a little vindictive towards him if they know what happened. That's just human nature.

Atlantean law is a lot better about covering magic-induced corner cases than surface world legal systems. A person who got involuntarily possesses isn't guilty of the crimes their domitor committed, though they might be detained out of concern that its control could be reasserted. A person who is voluntarily possessed on the other hand might be partially or wholly guilty depending on the circumstances. As such, what I'm telling King Sha'ark isn't something that he would consider completely unreasonable, unlike most surface world people who hadn't heard of Bruno Mannheim until the broadcast.

Click to shrink...

A sign the surface world has a long way to go in laws concerning supernatural events and influences.

"What about Darkseid? Did he die?"

"I doubt that Darkseid himself even felt it. Darkseid is a… Long term target. Very long term. Human civilisation collapsed because he turned a tiny fragment of his attention our way. We are not ready."

Click to shrink...

Darkseid turning up is not so much an invasion as a sentient natural disaster, in some ways. Especially if he unleashes Anti-Life again.

He glowers. "I don't like that."

"You're not supposed to." I shake my head. "So where is Queen Mera now?"

Click to shrink...

And what of the rest of the royal family? Artur, and any new royal children we might have missed?

Miss Lamaris shakes her head. "I don't know. The 'impure' were moved out of the city before the city was raised out of the water."

"Before or after the shield went down?"

"Before." She nods. "So she was probably still there until then."

Click to shrink...

Using dolmen gates, of course. If the Raising was known about beforehand, it'd be ostensibly because Poseidonis would be above water, to avoid suffocating water-breathers, but...

"It's more of a lead than we've got on King Orin. How do Atlantean succession laws work?"

She twitches slightly, her eyes flicking to King Sha'ark. "By default, she would be Prince Artur's regent, but only if King Orin is dead. She couldn't just take over if he actually appointed Ahri'ahn to govern while he is away."

Click to shrink...

They really need checks and balances if a bad actor is set in place...

"And is it actually Ahri'ahn?"

King Sha'ark snorts. "Ahri'ahn died thousands of years ago. How would we know?"

Click to shrink...

Good point. Can't even rely on fashion sense, he may just have liked waistcoats and frockcoats back then.

Miss Lamaris shrugs. "He's powerful, and he knows a lot about magic. I don't think it matters whether it's actually him or not."

I nod. "When did he show up?"

Click to shrink...

If he's got the power to do this, he's got a good claim to the name...

Miss Lamaris's eyes dip. "A few days after the shield went up. I saw him hanging around the Conservatory a few times before the announcement. I didn't know who he was."

"How did he react to you?"

"Because of my tail?" I nod. "He was surprised that I was a student, but that was about it. He didn't start shouting at me for being impure. I think-."

Click to shrink...

Better behaved than Orm's purebloodist faction, at least. Then again, he may have been seething inside.

"You're not supposed to be here."

I jerk my head around as.. a couple of King Sha'ark's guard start moving towards us, the shark woman who first blocked us taking the lead.

Click to shrink...

That's for your boss to decide, I would think.

King Sha'ark bears his teeth. "Their place is where I say it is. Stand down!"

"You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here." / "You're not supposed to be here."

Click to shrink...

...Ah. Somehow, I suspect King Shark is no longer the one in their heads as 'boss'.

Their eyes are slightly unfocused and.. their desires occluded.

"You're not supposed to be here."

Click to shrink...

Definitely mind-control. Looks like Ahri'ahn's caught on.

Something's affecting them-.

The shark woman lunges!

Click to shrink...

Which can be very nasty, given shark teeth and their swimming speed...

Welp, looks like the infiltration's gone belly-up. Hopefully they aren't causing an international incident now. Because I foresee Ahri'ahn holding this over the League's head as leverage to force concessions out of them. Heck, given he seems to be able to divide his attention, or let a spell handle them, he might be doing it right now.

 

[Darko]

They really need checks and balances if a bad actor is set in place...

Click to shrink...

I don't think those would have done anything to someone as powerful as Ahri'ahn.

Good point. Can't even rely on fashion sense, he may just have liked waistcoats and frockcoats back then.

Click to shrink...

He could have also worn modern Atlantian clothing.

 

[KyleDaScourge]

Welp, looks like the infiltration's gone belly-up. Hopefully they aren't causing an international incident now. Because I foresee Ahri'ahn holding this over the League's head as leverage to force concessions out of them. Heck, given he seems to be able to divide his attention, or let a spell handle them, he might be doing it right now.

Click to shrink...

I'm... reasonably... certain that the High King of Atlantis doesn't have the power to unilaterally control the immigration / border / visitation policies of the various city states and he certainly doesn't have the power to enforce that control via mental manipulation of the armed forces of said city states.

EDIT - Actually, I'm pretty sure I recall the Venturian queen in the renegade timeline saying that control of foreign policy is one of the high kings actual points of authority... maybe he can. The mind control still seems an obvious step too far, and if nothing else we know Paul is open to helping enforce city state separatism, and he's got a king of one of the city states right there to request help with just that.

 

[Vaermina]

"You didn't feel what we did to end the broadcast?"

He blinks. "I still don't know what you did to end the broadcast."

"Basically, we used Mannheim's own network to broadcast… The essence of emotionality across the world. It broke Darkseid's hold on Mannheim himself and destroyed the Anti-Life fragment he was using."

Click to shrink...

I see a plot hole.

If the shield went up after the Anti-Life, and came down after the Life Equation broadcast, then they should all still be infected by the Anti-Life.

 

[BR549]

King Sha'ark bears his teeth. "Their place is where I say it is. Stand down!"

Click to shrink...

Should be 'bares'.

...also I'm totally now hearing Nanaue Sha'ark as voiced by Frank Welker using his Transformers: Prime Megatron voice.

 

[BlackCoat13]

Welp, looks like the infiltration's gone belly-up. Hopefully they aren't causing an international incident now. Because I foresee Ahri'ahn holding this over the League's head as leverage to force concessions out of them. Heck, given he seems to be able to divide his attention, or let a spell handle them, he might be doing it right now.

Click to shrink...

Well, A: I'm not sure he'd exactly care, but Paul is not a member of the Justice League so his actions can't be held against them unless it's in a 'why didn't you stop him' manner, in which case it's because he's pretty much impossible to track, divert, or halt, and can casually defeat teams of them at a time.
B: Paul was just visiting some of his friends and contacts, in an altered form to prevent himself from being... swarmed by his adoring fans (yeah that's it) to ask about / get a report about how they handled things under the Anti-Life broadcast. What's so incident worthy about that? Then the obviously mind controlled cops show up and defy their own ruler's authority. Really the wizard dude shot himself in the foot responding to the situation so obviously like that, even if this is just an automated response.

 

[Darko]

I see a plot hole.

If the shield went up after the Anti-Life, and came down after the Life Equation broadcast, then they should all still be infected by the Anti-Life.

Click to shrink...

Unless the whole "cutting it away from the world" or whatever they did the first time stopped it.

Or maybe Ahri'ahn did something during lockdown.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"it can"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

Well it certainly wasn't in the show.

Click to shrink...

I stopped watching before that stuff happened.

Should be 'bares'.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

...also I'm totally now hearing Nanaue Sha'ark as voiced by Frank Welker using his Transformers: Prime Megatron voice.

Click to shrink...

James Arnold Taylor, sorry.

 

[Doccer]

could still end messages to each other

Click to shrink...

send

 

[Mr Zoat]

send

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.