With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

ForeverShogo · Dec 30, 2019

If you're just looking for somewhere stable to be, he wouldn't have to go elsewhere. Earth 10 is actually pretty stable. The Nazis also have cities on the Moon and on Mars, so he wouldn't escape them by going to Mars.

He'd basically be fine as long as he fits their criteria for being of an acceptable race, and given some of the galactic polities the Paragon has been willing to tolerate and even cooperate with . . . If a Paul 10 had existed, I could see him chilling out on Earth 10. Possibly being an ally of the New Reichsmen when it comes to more traditional heroics.

All the nasty shit has already happened. At this point it's mostly just regular people living regular lives. There's just somewhat less racial diversity because of the, you know, genocides.

Trying to think of who'd still be around other than Germanic peoples. Iranians. Arabs. Chinese. Japanese.

Mr Zoat · Dec 30, 2019

ForeverShogo said:
Chinese. Japanese.

It turns out that if decapitation races are a national sport you can burn through a population fairly quickly.

Impatient_Quill · Dec 30, 2019

ForeverShogo said:
If you're just looking for somewhere stable to be, he wouldn't have to go elsewhere. Earth 10 is actually pretty stable. The Nazis also have cities on the Moon and on Mars, so he wouldn't escape them by going to Mars.

He'd basically be fine as long as he fits their criteria for being of an acceptable race, and given some of the galactic polities the Paragon has been willing to tolerate and even cooperate with . . . If a Paul 10 had existed, I could see him chilling out on Earth 10. Possibly being an ally of the New Reichsmen when it comes to more traditional heroics.

All the nasty shit has already happened. At this point it's mostly just regular people living regular lives. There's just somewhat less racial diversity because of the, you know, genocides.

Trying to think of who'd still be around other than Germanic peoples. Iranians. Arabs. Chinese. Japanese.

Not quite sure he would feel less inclined to stick his nose into human issues.

Mr Zoat · Dec 30, 2019

Vinom said:
Not quite sure he would feel less inclined to stick his nose into human issues.

Yeah, turns out? There are quite a few black people on Earth. So every time he stops someone destroying the planet he's doing something for black people, you ungrateful short-sighted git.

Grimnar · Dec 30, 2019

Are we ever going to know what the fuck is up with Welsh John? I'm pretty sure it's been teased that he's the opposite of the Demon Constantine, but when is the full story coming out?

Darko · Dec 30, 2019

Paragon has spent several months in another universe and has had his mentality changed with enlightenment, another Paul showing up on a nazi world without the months of experience and enlightenment could easily make some mistake and get himself killed.

Grimnar in the Angelic episode John said his last name was Quinn, and Constantines mother's maiden name was Quinn, so either he's a relative, someone that happens to share that name or he may be the Golden Boy.

Is there a version of the SI that ended up on another universe, but not with a power ring, instead maybe something else, like advanced tech or magic just not a power ring?

Is there a version of the SI that ended up in Ben 10 or any of the other series that followed

Mr Zoat · Dec 30, 2019

Grimnar said:
Are we ever going to know what the fuck is up with Welsh John?

Yes.

I'm pretty sure it's been teased that he's the opposite of the Demon Constantine, but when is the full story coming out?

At some point. I haven't written it yet.

Darko said:
Is there a version of the SI that ended up on another universe, but not with a power ring, instead maybe something else, like advanced tech or magic just not a power ring?

No. Though not of all of them keep it or keep it working.

Is there a version of the SI that ended up in Ben 10 or any of the other series that followed

No. I've never watched it.

Darko · Dec 30, 2019

Does Sybarite have something like Satanus has functioning as a soul, hell magic acting like a soul?

Will Sybarite make an appearance in the crisis?

Can he use demon magic or is he just doing more instinctual things, like the renegade with his divine powers, instead of casting spells?
Does he even know how to cast spells?
Does the renegade know how to cast spells?
Has he done it already?

ForeverShogo · Dec 30, 2019

Oh, I'm well aware of the fondness the Japanese had for brutalizing the Chinese and, really, most of the rest of Asia.

One of the only groups they really bothered to treat decently was the Taiwanese. Mostly because it was their model colony back when they controlled the island.

But even then, the Japanese still intended to use the Co-Prosperity Sphere to rule over Asia. As brutal as they were, there would still be Chinese to lord over.

Mr Zoat · Dec 30, 2019

Darko said:
Does Sybarite have something like Satanus has functioning as a soul, hell magic acting like a soul?

Basically.

Will Sybarite make an appearance in the crisis?

Probably. I haven't written it yet.

Can he use demon magic or is he just doing more instinctual things, like the renegade with his divine powers, instead of casting spells?

Mostly instinctual.

Does he even know how to cast spells?

In theory. He rarely does it. He's a bit too out of it.

Does the renegade know how to cast spells?

Not in the traditional sense.

Has he done it already?

No.

Impatient_Quill · Dec 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Yeah, turns out? There are quite a few black people on Earth. So every time he stops someone destroying the planet he's doing something for black people, you ungrateful short-sighted git.

Mostly that was a bit of a commentary against prior writers who were willing to let their hero address social issues on other planets but not ones of earth, but your point is valid.

ForeverShogo · Dec 30, 2019

On the wondering how many people from what groups are still around. Remembered there'd be a surprising amount even among those they were going to get extermination happy with.

==

Russians 75%
Estonians 50%
Latvians 50%
Czechs 50%
Ukrainians 65%
Belarusians 75%
Poles 85%
Lithuanians 85%
Latgalians 100%

==

After winning the war and expanding up to the Ural Mountains, that's how much of each group in their new lands they planned to exterminate. (Seemed to really hate the Latgalians.)

The remainder was how much of each group they thought they could Germanize. Which would probably be even higher given their experiences with Poland. Because when they actually got to work on Germanizing the Poles they were repeatedly surprised by just how many of them fit their criteria for Germanization. To the extent that they reconciled it by deciding there were just a bunch of Polonized Germans that they were actually simply Re-Germanizing.

And given how successful they were at indoctrinating kidnapped children from those groups . . .

Siiracai The Supernal · Dec 31, 2019

I feel as though it would be rather intriguing to see a version of the SI in the Harry Potter universe, or one with a lightsmith weapon. Although, I think it would be cruel and unusual to put him in the HP universe unless his ring was enchanted and able to absorb some types of magic, as well as making him seem like one of the magicals. Although, a Lightsmith version of the SI in the HP universe could work rather well, especially if his weapon were a staff of some sort. Technically, lanterns and Lightsmiths are close enough in principle that you could tie it in nicely, while still remaining true to both your lore, and canon.

bobsimmo · Dec 31, 2019

ForeverShogo said:
Latvians 50%

ForeverShogo said:
Latgalians 100%

Latgalians were an ancient Baltic tribe.
They likely spoke the Latvian language, which probably became the lingua franca in present-day Latvia during the Northern Crusades due to their alliance with the crusaders. Latgalians later assimilated the neighbouring tribes, forming the core of modern Latvians.

Coda · Dec 31, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
A man who might have been my Granddad

His maternal grandfather? Because if the SI wasn't able to think about his own name when he arrived then looking up his paternal grandfather might have been... challenging.

FreeGod · Dec 31, 2019

Darko said:
Yeah i'm pretty sure when someone accepts the thought that the nazis may have been right about something, common sense, good sense or really any kind of sense just dies a slow and painful death.

I think that the nazis were right about the sky being blue and their policy of not dropping rocks on your head was correct.

Reverse stupidity is not intelligence. The dumbest person in the world saying something doesn't make it any more wrong then it was before they said it.

Ardy · Dec 31, 2019

fictionfan said:
I think that the nazis were right about the sky being blue and their policy of not dropping rocks on your head was correct.

Reverse stupidity is not intelligence. The dumbest person in the world saying something doesn't make it any more wrong then it was before they said it.

I agree, but you did steal that from HPMOR so I can't quite call you correct

FreeGod · Dec 31, 2019

Ardy said:
I agree, but you did steal that from HPMOR so I can't quite call you correct

Hey he throws out a perfect feed line like that it would have been rude not to take it.

Ganurath · Dec 31, 2019

Darko said:
Yeah i'm pretty sure when someone accepts the thought that the nazis may have been right about something, common sense, good sense or really any kind of sense just dies a slow and painful death.

I think the Nazis may have been right about the health hazards of smoking, and I suspect that my sense of smell is even better than it'd be if I'd disagreed on the matter.

fictionfan said:
Hey he throws out a perfect feed line like that it would have been rude not to take it.

Only if you don't waste it. You really couldn't do anything with "any kind of sense" in your counterpoint?

Caerwen · Dec 31, 2019

Coda said:
His maternal grandfather? Because if the SI wasn't able to think about his own name when he arrived then looking up his paternal grandfather might have been... challenging.

. Would have been safer to check his maternal grandmother. Just in case lol Back in the day there were no paternity tests.

Ardy · Dec 31, 2019

I wonder how a Paul would do in Practical Guide to Evil? It's a universe where tropes are enforced and real laws of reality, so would he try and game them or just tear his hair out in frustration?

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2019

14th March
15:02 GMT -5

I frown at Director Armstrong in genuine puzzlement.

"I'm sorry, what?"

Her jaw is somewhat tense, though less tense than it was a moment ago when she thought this mess might be of my instigation. "They're claiming Apokoliptian citizenship."

"Yeees, that's the part I don't understand."

A man whose identification tag marks him as coming from the organisation's legal branch shifts some notes on his holopad before returning his attention to me.

"You said in front of the Senate committee that Apokolips claimed ownership of the Earth, with you as their… 'Suzerain'."

I groan inwardly.

"You can confirm that you haven't offered anyone Apokoliptian citizenship?"

"I can indeed."

"Is there anyone else on Earth who could?"

"Apokolips doesn't even have citizenship. I'm not an Apokoliptian citizen in any legal sense. Knockout isn't an Apokoliptian citizen. Anyone claiming to be an Apokoliptian citizen clearly doesn't know anything about Apokoliptian society."

"Is there an equivalent title or.. level of social standing?"

"No." I shake my head. "The modern notion of 'citizenship' comes from the idea that the right to rule comes from the consent of the governed. That people have rights and responsibilities to the state as a whole derived from their participation in it. Apokolips… Doesn't have that."

"So what does a person have to do to have rights on Apokolips?"

I don't immediately respond. He looks up, and I try and communicate with expression alone exactly how mistaken he's been in his choice of barking tree.

"There are no rights."

"I thought Apokolips was feudal with super powers. Aristocrats have rights and responsibilities in feudal states."

"Yes, because the monarch is usually first among equals, and a sufficiently large group of major nobles could overthrow them. That's where the Magna Carta comes from. That doesn't work on Apokolips-" Except briefly under Queen Heggra. "-because in an arena fight between Darkseid and everyone else -even allowing the 'everyone else' team to punch voodoo dolls so they didn't get in each other's way- Darkseid would still win. That makes for a very different social structure."

"Is that how it works? There's Darkseid, then everyone else?"

"No, there's… Four or five layers..? It sort of depends on how you look at it. If this… What was his name again?"

"Lincoln Burns. He's a.. musician, with a history of, ah… Shall we say 'creative' tax dodges."

"Right. If he somehow appeared on Apokolips, he'd be a Lowlie."

"Is that the equivalent of being a blue collar worker?"

"No. A blue collar worker, someone with an employer who valued their input and would miss them if they vanished, would be a level up. Lowlies are a step down from slaves."

"A step d-. How does that work?"

"Apokolips has the technology to become a traditionally post-scarcity civilisation. The only reason we're not is that we chose not to be. We don't need the labour of blue collar workers, or a working class, or semi-skilled labourers, or whatever you want to call them. Historically, in human civilisations, serfs have protection under the law, even if they have little freedom. Slaves had legal protection in some societies, and in those where they didn't they at least had financial value. Lowlies have no value. They're considered worthless, barely useful as a group for the power their misery provides to people like Darkseid. And I know that the moment he finds a better way to do it he'll have them all killed."

I shrug.

"Or just completely ignore them."

"And… Up from them?"

"Soldiers, mostly. A few Lowlies who survived long enough to become distinguishably useful to their betters. A group with useful applications. Occasionally, one even gains sufficient power to join the Elite… Canis Major is the only one I can immediately call to mind, but it does happen."

"And then?"

"The Elite. Awakened individuals like myself powerful enough to have specific uses. Darkseid's inner circle exists on a continuum with the rest of the class, but they have enough Elite under their command that you could count them as a separate group."

"But they don't have rights either."

"No. There are… Alliances, levels of favour… Open fighting is discouraged because it's distracting and tends to spread, but complete peace is discouraged as well. There are social conventions, but nothing as potent as 'rights' or 'laws'."

"And the top level?"

"The autocrat. Darkseid at the moment. Yuga Khan before him. Monstrously powerful individuals who define the purpose of our society."

"Okay, and what sort of tax rates do these levels pay?"

I lean back in my chair, my right hand covering my face.

"None. There isn't-. There are tribute payments in some cases, but there's no standard rate of income that people are obliged to hand over. Most people don't have any income it would be possible to tax."

"So there isn't a tax rate."

"No, there isn't a tax rate. Lowlies don't have-. No one on Apokolips has property rights."

"But he can't be a legal citizen of Apokolips."

"Correct."

"Are there any Apokoliptians on Earth who might tell him or his lawyers otherwise?"

"I know all the Apokoliptians on Earth. It wasn't Knockout; she works for me. My brother wouldn't, my sister-in-law wouldn't, then it's just Kanto -who wouldn't bother- and-."

Uh.

"What's his lawyer's name?"

He checks his notes again.

"Simon Leas."

Oh for fuck's sake. The one Apokoliptian I decided to ignore because he was beneath my contempt.

"And they want to make representations to me about intervening on their behalf with the IRS?"

"That's about the size of it."

"Okay, got a solution. Invite them for a discussion at Challenger Mountain and we'll handle this under Apokoliptian law."

Director Armstrong scowls. "Why the hell should we do that?"

14th March
18:02 GMT -6

"Shit! Shit! Shit!"

I don't waste time looking at the autodefecating Mr Burns as Knockout holds him up by his shirt, instead focusing my attention on the cowering Sleez. As an Elite Apokoliptian himself, disciplining him myself is 'officially' worth my time. Mr Burns is a Lowlie who drew the attention of his betters.

I grab Sleez around his chest and squeeze until his morphomagic generator fails and he's forcibly returned to his true, goblinoid form.

"'Apokoliptian Citizenship'? Have you been gone so long that you've forgotten how we do things you vile worm?" Honesty. Integrity. Directness. Openness.

"Hey! You can't-!"

Knockout takes her right hand off his shirt and slaps him hard enough to send him flying into the wall. Though she's restrained enough to avoid doing lasting harm. "Silence before your betters, Lowlie."

"You drew my attention, Sleez. And I am going to remind you why you shouldn't have done that."

thebishop8 · Dec 31, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Mr Burns is a Lowlie to drew the attention of his betters.

Change "to" to "who", I think.

Ardy · Dec 31, 2019

Ah, the man whose villainous plan was to mind control some of the most powerful people on Earth, use them to make a porno, and use the profits to (somehow) create an army capable of overthrowing Darkseid.

Honestly it's nice to see him improving himself with a merely "pants-on-head retarded" plan rather than his usual fair.

You go, little perv. Reach for the stars.

Prince Charon · Dec 31, 2019

Sleez does live down to his nature as the New God of, well, Sleeze (at least, I'm pretty sure that's his Attribute).

Grimnar · Dec 31, 2019

Ardy said:
Ah, the man whose villainous plan was to mind control some of the most powerful people on Earth, use them to make a porno, and use the profits to (somehow) create an army capable of overthrowing Darkseid.

That's a great plan!

Except you should hold the porno hostage as blackmail to ensure the participation of useful individuals.

Someguy Somewhere · Dec 31, 2019

Grimnar said:
That's a great plan!

Except you should hold the porno hostage as blackmail to ensure the participation of useful individuals.

It's a Terrible Plan.....when the targets are Big Barda and Superman.

Darko · Dec 31, 2019

Nice to see more explanation on how a society mostly made up of complete monsters functions.

Chojin Patriarch · Dec 31, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
14th March
15:02 GMT -5

I frown at Director Armstrong in genuine puzzlement.

"I'm sorry, what?"

Her jaw is somewhat tense, though less tense than it was a moment ago when she thought this mess might be of my instigation. "They're claiming Apokoliptian citizenship."

Hahahahahaaa... No, really...

You're serious?

"Yeees, that's the part I don't understand."

A man whose identification tag marks him as coming from the organisation's legal branch shifts some notes on his holopad before returning his attention to me.

"You said in front of the Senate committee that Apokolips claimed ownership of the Earth, with your as their… 'Suzerain'."

And once again, his deception comes back to bite him in the big, grey arse.

I groan inwardly.

"You can confirm that you haven't offered anyone Apokoliptian citizenship?"

"I can indeed."

"Is there anyone else on Earth who could?"

"Frankly, I would likely refuse anyway on principle..."

"Apokolips doesn't even have citizenship. I'm not an Apokoliptian citizen in any legal sense. Knockout isn't an Apokoliptian citizen. Anyone claiming to be an Apokoliptian citizen clearly doesn't know anything about Apokoliptian society."

"Is there an equivalent title or.. level of social standing?"

"No." I shake my head. "The modern notion of 'citizenship' comes from the idea that the right to rule comes from the consent of the governed. That people have rights and responsibilities to the state as a whole derived from their participation in it. Apokolips… Doesn't have that."

To put it simply, you belong to Darkseid. He uses you as he sees fit. Or one of the Nobility does so in his name...

"So what does a person have to do to have rights on Apokolips?"

I don't immediately respond. He looks up, and I try and communicate with expression alone exactly how mistaken he's been in his choice of barking tree.

I'm picturing something like [Disgusted black dude] or

.

"There are no rights."

"I thought Apokolips was feudal with super powers. Aristocrats have rights and responsibilities in feudal states."

"Yes, because the monarch is usually first among equals, and a sufficiently large group of major nobles could overthrow them. That's where the Magna Carta comes from. That doesn't work on Apokolips-" Except briefly under Queen Hegra. "-because in an arena fight between Darkseid and everyone else -even allowing the 'everyone else' team to punch voodoo dolls so they didn't get in each others' way- Darkseid would still win. That makes for a very different social structure."

And that's before you count the low-level brainwashing/indoctrination effect of his very existence, courtesy of what parts of the Anti-Life Equation he holds....

"Is that how it works? There's Darkseid, then everyone else?"

"No, there's… Four or five layers..? It sort of depends on how you look at it. If this… What was his name again?"

"Lincoln Burns. He's a.. musician, with a history of, ah… Shall we say 'creative' tax dodges."

So, someone who has no idea of what he asks, out of some desperate desire to avoid prison... Why is there no facepalm emote?!

"Right. If he somehow appeared on Apokolips, he'd be a Lowlie."

"Is that the equivalent of being a blue collar worker?"

Pffft-hahahahaaNO.

"No. A blue collar worker, someone with an employer who valued their input and would miss them if they vanished, would be a level up. Lowlies are a step down from slaves."

"A step d-. How does that work?"

Slaves at least have the monetary value of their owner purchasing them. Lowlies? Not even that.

"Apokolips has the technology to become a traditionally post-scarcity civilisation. The only reason we're not is that we chose not to be. We don't need the labour of blue collar workers, or a working class, or semi-skilled labourers, or whatever you want to call them. Historically, in human civilisations, serfs have protection under the law, even if they have little freedom. Slaves had legal protection in some societies, and in those where they didn't they at least had financial value. Lowlies have no value. They're considered worthless, barely useful as a group for the power their misery provides to people like Darkseid. And I know that the moment he finds a better way to do it he'll have them all killed."

They're about as interesting as the dirt that cakes their bodies, to Him. I.E, not at all.

I shrug.

"Or just completely ignore them."

And this is what he plans for the universe at large...

"And… Up from them?"

"Soldiers, mostly. A few Lowlies who survived long enough to become distinguishably useful to their betters. A group with useful applications. Occasionally, one even gains sufficient power to join the Elite… Canis Major is the only one I can immediately call to mind, but it does happen."

It's a safe bet Canis Minor is dead here, given that Grayven was off-world or otherwise occupied when he would have turned up...

"And then?"

"The Elite. Awakened individuals like myself powerful enough to have specific uses. Darkseid's inner circle exists on a continuum with the rest of the class, but they have enough Elite under their command that you could count them as a separate group."

"But they don't have rights either."

Not a whit, in Darkseid's eyes.

"No. There are… Alliances, levels of favour… Open fighting is discouraged because it's distracting and tends to spread, but complete peace is discouraged as well. There are social conventions, but nothing as potent as 'rights' or 'laws'."

"And the top level?"

"The autocrat. Darkseid at the moment. Yuga Khan before him. Monstrously powerful individuals who define the purpose of our society."

Essentially, Apokolips exists to perform his will. If he had no need of it, it would be destroyed...

"Okay, and what sort of tax rates do these levels pay?"

I lean back in my chair, my right hand covering my face.

"None. There isn't-. There are tribute payments in some cases, but there's no standard rate of income that people are obliged to hand over. Most people don't have any income it would be possible to tax."

Food is considered a luxury, amongst the Lowlies...

"So there isn't a tax rate."

"No, there isn't a tax rate. Lowlies don't have-. No one on Apokolips has property rights."

"But he can't be a legal citizen of Apokolips."

Again, no-one on Apokolips is a citizen. They're simply the property of Darkseid...

"Correct."

"Are there any Apokoliptians on Earth would might tell him or his lawyers otherwise?"

"I know all the Apokoliptians on Earth. It wasn't Knockout; she works for me. My brother wouldn't, my sister-in-law wouldn't, then it's just Kanto -who wouldn't bother- and-."

But what of Apokoliptians who he wasn't aware of...

Uh.

"What's his lawyer's name?"

He checks his notes again.

"Simon Leas."

Ah, the porn-maker. One who's barely amongst the Elite.

Oh for fuck's sake. The one Apokoliptian I decided to ignore because he was beneath my contempt.

"And they want to make representations to me about intervening on their behalf with the IRS?"

"That's about the size of it."

Oh, that fool has no idea what awaits him...

"Okay, got a solution. Invite them for a discussion at Challenger Mountain and we'll handle this under Apokoliptian law."

Director Armstrong scowls. "Why the hell should we do that?"

"Apokoliptian Law says i can kill them if it pleases me. I won't, of course, but I should be able to scare Mr Burns straight..."

14th March
18:02 GMT -6

"Shit! Shit! Shit!"

I do hope he was wearing brown trousers... Because if he wasn't, he is now!

I don't waste time looking at the autodeficating Mr Burns as Knockout holds him up by his shirt, instead focusing my attention on the cowering Sleez. As an Elite Apokoliptian himself, disciplining him myself is 'officially' worth my time. Mr Burns is a Lowlie to drew the attention of his betters.

I grab Sleez around his chest and squeeze until his morphomagic generator fails and he's forcibly returned to his true, goblinoid form.

To quote Dutch: "You're one ugly motherfucker..."

"'Apokiptian Citizenship'? Have you been gone so long that you've forgotten how we do things you vile worm?" Honesty. Integrity. Directness. Openness.

"Hey! You can't-!"

I don't think Mr Burns has quite realised his situation yet...

Knockout takes her right hand off his shirt and slaps him hard enough to send him flying into the wall. Though she's restrained enough to avoid doing lasting harm. "Silence before your betters, Lowlie."

"You drew my attention, Sleez. And I am going to remind you why you shouldn't have done that."

"And then, if you are very, very lucky, I will not kill you. Yet."

Ah, Renegade. Sleez made quite the mistake here. With enough contrition, he may get to live... Makes me wonder what he's up to in the Paragon's timeline (other than "The SI doesn't know."

)

Invisitext For Darkseid!

"'Apokiptian Citizenship'? Have you been gone so long that you've forgotten how we do things you vile worm?" Honesty. Integrity. Directness. Openness.

"Hey! You can't-!"

Knockout takes her right hand off his shirt and slaps him hard enough to send him flying into the wall. Though she's restrained enough to avoid doing lasting harm. "Silence before your betters, Lowlie."

Mr Zoat · Dec 31, 2019

thebishop8 said:
Change "to" to "who", I think.

Thank you, corrected.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Not too sore, are you?

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Shadows and Balance

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If you see a God on the road fuck it!

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