Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Calico J]

But do you guys think this has been working?

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Perfectly logical. Anyway, over the course of an entire week, surely most people can find ten minutes somewhere to check the thread and vote.

 

[Sveta08]

Just got hit by the realization that the nightmares Ash is causing might be seen as the same type of attack(or close enough) as what happened with Luna... so Celestia might think the "enemy" is doing large scale attacks.

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Nah.

Remember, while we know what happened, Celestia doesn't.
She knows her sister was hurt, or scared, or broken, or frightened by some unknown magics. The exact effect of what was done to Luna, Celestia doesn't know. Only how Luna responded to it.

 

[DelightedOne]

Nah.

Remember, while we know what happened, Celestia doesn't.
She knows her sister was hurt, or scared, or broken, or frightened by some unknown magics. The exact effect of what was done to Luna, Celestia doesn't know. Only how Luna responded to it.

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Celestia knows Luna had a weird nightmare, she was the one who went to Luna to check on her when she heard her screams through their bond. She also knows it was an attack, the only reason she did not hunt the Cult was because finding Luna became her number one priority.

Princess Celestia will now actively start hunting for whoever struck against her beloved sister. Delayed, as all efforts are being directed at locating Luna.

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It is kinda easy to think that "Luna has a weird nightmare that makes her run away in fear and destroy half of the castle" and "Inventors are having weird nightmares that terrify them" are connected and if she somehow sees a pony wounded physically by Ash that might be even worse.

Celestia is old and has led the most prosperous kingdom in the world for over 1000 years, she can put the pieces together.

 

[Limabot]

Also, I suspect Ash's dream attacks only affect those that try and enter the Mansus. Normal dreaming is probably still safe, and that's the vast majority of dreams ponies will have.

 

[DelightedOne]

Also, I suspect Ash's dream attacks only affect those that try and enter the Mansus. Normal dreaming is probably still safe, and that's the vast majority of dreams ponies will have.

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That is true, but there will be a lot of ponies who won't have good dreams: the innovators.

Velvet destroyed the Woods so fear of the dark won't be what motivates ponies to innovate anymore it will be fear of the things in the dark and since that Action was sponsored by the Wolf... it will be enforced in the worst way possible. We even see some of it here:

"I'm n-not afraid of the dark anymore. B-because I saw what's hiding inside of it."

-Hounded, hunted and haunted. Midday Dew is terrified of what the future holds. As he was the very first scientist to be woken up, screaming, by what would later be known as "the innovator's curse".

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I doubt Celestia won't notice this.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Mansus wounds also aren't always a wound, per se, when you get back to the Wake. Sure it's one less health, but narratively speaking that can manifest as just general sickness, lack of vitality, or so on. It's not like everyone is going to have a giant scratch from nowhere down their side or something.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Two things; firstly why are people dooming on Stalk after it won the vote? Like where was this reticence before?

Secondly We've had this conversation before people, that's not how dreams or the average dreamer will function. Also, capitalising innovators is way too much because what bird meant here is innovators as the descriptor rather then any one organisation or group of people.

 

[Sveta08]

Celestia knows Luna had a weird nightmare, she was the one who went to Luna to check on her when she heard her screams through their bond. She also knows it was an attack, the only reason she did not hunt the Cult was because finding Luna became her number one priority.

It is kinda easy to think that "Luna has a weird nightmare that makes her run away in fear and destroy half of the castle" and "Inventors are having weird nightmares that terrify them" are connected and if she somehow sees a pony wounded physically by Ash that might be even worse.

Celestia is old and has led the most prosperous kingdom in the world for over 1000 years, she can put the pieces together.

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Again, hold the horses.

Yes, the dreams are bad but there are two different effects of problematic dreaming there. Both are from Ash, yes, but one intentionally, the other as a byproduct.
The Innovators Curse as it will become known as, is the fact the Woods are gone. Destroyed. Burnt and shattered. So they see the wolves. That's... bad nightmares. Cursed almost, but different than what happened to Luna.

The Ash Stalks will produce different effects. But these will be targeted much more specifically at people who are moving towards the Manus. People who, more than likely, aren't willing to reveal themselves to Celestia. So that side, she will likely not see for... a while yet.

Will Celestia blame The Attackers for the Innovators Curse? Sure. Will she be aware of Ash, and think it's the same thing? Likely not.
For one, the innovators can still talk and move and be comforted. For two...
Celestia will not compare what was done to Luna to anyone. All will be held accountable. None share sympathy, brothers and sisters in harm.

 

[Venerable Ro]

So here's what I'm thinking with the Bureau.

We need to get "lucky' and hit on or receive a report that plausibly links to the existence of the Mansus, something that can get a pony to the Crossroads and from there onwards and upwards. We seize on this as something that perfectly falls under our jurisdiction, especially once exploration of the Ash Wastes reveals it to be full of dangerous monsters.

From there we take flagrant advantage of the Equestrian cultural institution of gifted individuals to plausibly mime our way back through the first part of the Mansus, (perhaps a bit slower than we did the first time) documenting everything we "learn" in manuscripts we can then distribute to the rest of the Bureau. This solves the problem of the Branded Gate by documenting our "first" passage through the gate officially, thereby tying off one of the biggest current hanging threads that is our inexplicable familiarity with the Lores literally branded on our flank.

It would have been tough to do before, but with Shining on board and Cadance/Luna willing to vouch for us if we need to sway anyone else, I think it could work pretty well.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

…You know, I actually kind of forgot that Branded could identify each other. That's a fucking issue in waiting.

 

[Greymere]

If a Frightened Velvet was terrifying, imagine one that is (relatively)mentally stable and with A Resolution on her hooves. Comet is gonna kneel and beg to be forgiven.

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I feel like you're being a bit overly optimistic about Comet's response here

 

[angelsadvocate666]

I feel like you're being a bit overly optimistic about Comet's response here

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No, no, they're just thinking about what happens after Fluttershy walks in halfway through.

 

[Gyldir]

She better not Dream using our funds, we have 4 Names to keep with us.

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Don't worry, when we have Confidante Uncle Steppes we can get breadseed poppy (Papaver somniferum) as grow-able plant. With Applejack as Confidante we can grow it at scale.

And the processing should just be a little bit of forge.

I mean, Stormchaser, Soft Sweeps, Silky Stream, Selene... Need I go on

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S, the letter of Velvet Covers family. Which is also the cause of her self esteem issues (see: personal moth sacrament), her own name doesn't start with an S, so she doesn't see herself as family!

Due to a change in routine, I can only write during weekends. So, I have the turn planned out, and I write the updates in the order I placed them.

And since I have to be away during the weekend, I have been trying to "end" the weekend with an update that involves a vote, so we can "optimize" our time usage by voting during the week, and so I can reach the weekend (and resume writing) with a period of voting done.

Again, so far this has happened as a coincidence. And I won't go out of my way to "create" a vote, just to shove it on your faces. But do you guys think this has been working? This has happened... for at least two weeks now. What are your thoughts on this?

My main concern is that some readers can only participate in the thread on weekends (like myself, really), so they weren't able to vote during the week because votes opened Sunday night and closed Friday in the afternoon. Has anyone had that issue as of yet?

Thank you for your feedback!

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Feels good so far.

It's honestly kinda wild. Like, even without AotL, every time we see max Influences very crazy things tend to happen. Doors blowing open at Velvet's approach for Knock, the entire estate fawning over her with Grail, even Moth way the fuck back was seriously creepy and cool.

Edge though… imagine how Sharp she'll look, sound, feel. Like she could cut you open just by glancing your way. Comet, under his Influence, was a Monster, an Executioner's axe just waiting to fall. What will Velvet be, I wonder, as the Loremaster and not the Enforcer?

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Just imagine Uncle Steppe comes to visit while we are under the influence.

@OurLadyOfWires
I think you wanted to Threadmark my colors post (you asked where I thought it would fit better and I answered "Index")?

 

[Venerable Ro]

Just imagine Uncle Steppe comes to visit while we are under the influence.

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I certainly am, one of the many reasons I voted for it!

 

[Iustus Vitea]

That's... bad nightmares. Cursed almost, but different than what happened to Luna.

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The way the nightmares will be viewed isn't going to be cursed it's the natural progression of our RAs; from the perspective of the wider public the Evil Changeling attack happened and so they had cause for being Paranoid and once things settled people, especially innovators, started to have nightmares about more monsters in the dark which drives them to create.

That's the progression in the Wake, it's all natural and explainable with no need for thinking it's a wide scale attack by Luna's foe. (I believe either bird explained it to be like this or someone else drew the connection and bird said it was pretty close). As above so below after all.

Stalk however, stalk will be that while Feast would've been lost in the noise of Ponykind's collective bad dreams.

 

[Pittauro]

The way the nightmares will be viewed isn't going to be cursed it's the natural progression of our RAs; from the perspective of the wider public the Evil Changeling attack happened and so they had cause for being Paranoid and once things settled people, especially innovators, started to have nightmares about more monsters in the dark which drives them to create.

That's the progression in the Wake, it's all natural and explainable with no need for thinking it's a wide scale attack by Luna's foe. (I believe either bird explained it to be like this or someone else drew the connection and bird said it was pretty close). As above so below after all.

Stalk however, stalk will be that while Feast would've been lost in the noise of Ponykind's collective bad dreams.

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mostly true on RA being explainable as something natural... at least unless you can ACTUALLY hear the wolves, of course.

as for Feast... it might look like a new kind of disease eventually? Some people will wake up, they MIGHT or might not remember their first trip to the Mansus Realm, and will basically be sick.

That said, it should affect a fairly small part of the population, so... it might just be mistaken for already existing diseases.

 

[Nevermort]

Stalk however, stalk will be that while Feast would've been lost in the noise of Ponykind's collective bad dreams.

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It is not necessary that bad. It gives Bureau reason to look into Lores. Main issue would be in how to prevent cult ponies from talking too much. What I mean is that while many cult ponies would be interested in hiding their injuries it does not mean that they would be successful at it. Some cultists may even become afraid and approach authorities for help. It is not out of realm of possibilities that at some point we would be tasked with investigation about this matter.
Main issue would be keeping ponies not loyal to us and especially Celestia from Dreaming, so they don't advance their Lores and identify us.
Otherwise in the future a possible way to introduce Lores to Celestia is to show her Starswirl book, where he mentions that he kept some knowledge from sisters. Then ask Celestia for access to Royal Library books.

Mansus wounds also aren't always a wound, per se, when you get back to the Wake. Sure it's one less health, but narratively speaking that can manifest as just general sickness, lack of vitality, or so on. It's not like everyone is going to have a giant scratch from nowhere down their side or something.

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Given that this is Wolf I think it is real wound this time around

mostly true on RA being explainable as something natural... at least unless you can ACTUALLY hear the wolves, of course.

as for Feast... it might look like a new kind of disease eventually? Some people will wake up, they MIGHT or might not remember their first trip to the Mansus Realm, and will basically be sick.

That said, it should affect a fairly small part of the population, so... it might just be mistaken for already existing diseases.

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Except Mansus goers would be aware about the reason. If they are rushed into hospital, or can't think of plausible reason for the injury, or have partners not in the know, then eventually investigation will be launched and they would need to plausibly lie to the inspectors. Best among best inspectors even, as we got some of them moved to Ponyville now. There is good chance that it is something that we would need to deal with sooner or later.

So here's what I'm thinking with the Bureau.

We need to get "lucky' and hit on or receive a report that plausibly links to the existence of the Mansus, something that can get a pony to the Crossroads and from there onwards and upwards. We seize on this as something that perfectly falls under our jurisdiction, especially once exploration of the Ash Wastes reveals it to be full of dangerous monsters.

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It is fairly simple to enter Mansus if you know how. Any captured cultists will give us such info. Main problem would be in preventing Celestia from reading our reports and trying to do it herself. If it still happen best way to deal with it would be to direct her to Dreamlands and have her busy melting Worms while Bureau investigates other places. The problem would be her running around looking for Lulu and starting climbing Mansus instead. Nothing that we would be able to do with it unless we somehow hide Baldomare beaсon from her, which Bladomare probably would not be too happy about.

S, the letter of Velvet Covers family. Which is also the cause of her self esteem issues (see: personal moth sacrament), her own name doesn't start with an S, so she doesn't see herself as family!

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It is not that she does not consider herself member of family. All good family members start with S. All bad family members have Velvet in their name. Obviously by this rule Wolf's sons would be Velvet Evil, Velvet Paranoia, and Velvet Ash .

If you write the plan I will vote for it.

I have moral objection to Killing Copper. But my problems with the plans around her has been them being half Ass'd.

This is full ass'd.

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If Velvet leading expedition against Copper, the stated goal should be to kidnap fillynap? Copper. I won't accept anything else. It would be utterly out of character for Velvet to go on the expedition and not have some ponies taken on it .
Also Winter subverts Edge, but subverted by Heart. So Marinette supposed to have advantage over Neighina, while Biedde would be at disadvantage I think. So having Velvet to come would be useful to keep Mareinette in check.

 

[AuthorTransient]

We're bringing a Resolution, "Who can avert the finality of battle?", over. It's going to be a little messier than this, I imagine!

But hopefully it does offer resolution to all that's gone between us. I just hope Fluttershy isn't disappointed.

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Someone kind and forgiving, optimistic but not naive, and of course, strong enough to be heard, just a guess, but there are many characters that could potentially, hypothetically, avert the finality of battle.

I wonder if Velvet will be one of them?

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That's Fluttershy. We saw her do it in text, she averted Comet Feet's battle.

No, no, they're just thinking about what happens after Fluttershy walks in halfway through.

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Exactly!

EDIT:

My main concern is that some readers can only participate in the thread on weekends (like myself, really), so they weren't able to vote during the week because votes opened Sunday night and closed Friday in the afternoon. Has anyone had that issue as of yet?

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It's been fine so far. Take care of yourself too.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

…Oh. Oh. I just had a really dumb, but kinda obvious thought.

-[X] (Steppes) Ask about any rumors and general perceptions of us, Fair Trial, and our respective institutions, among both nobles and the commonfolk.

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"I have recently come under the employment of one Velvet Covers," he says, taking a long drag out of his pipe, and puffing it out in a plume of smoke. "You will tell me everything you know about her."

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…Was Biedde co-opting our Steppes action? I mean, there was more to it, but everything Steppes knows about Velvet is probably covered, and with enough digressions considering that the other topics are probably heavily connected to Velvet in the public eye…

 

[Greymere]

Okay so. Perhaps this may be a bit of a controversial opnion, but...

I think we should wait until T21 to do the Forge's Redemption. Yes, it's exciting that we are finally capable of getting rid of Scarred in both senses of the term, but I do actually have a reason for thinking this.

The first is: unless Baldomare rolling super high on the Frangiclave finding ritual also happens to scout out the expedition site for us, we're going to have to do a scouting RotT. And if we want to try and finish our Sacrament next turn via Baldomare-granted SH Influence, we're going to have to do the RotT. Personally. Which, for a high level expedition site that is likely warded to some degree, means we'd want to do this with a Lantern reagent... which means no reagent for FR unless we take an action to craft another and then also spend another AP on casting FR (unlikely). And I would very much like to try and complete our SH Sacrament next turn; it gets us to SH5 just in time for the Frangiclave expedition, it finishes off the SH Sacrament while only spending a single Baldomare AP (and no bits!) to get a strong Influence unless we're unlucky, and it also unlocks the Tower for exploration.

Which leads me into my next point: I think I would like to try explore the Tower on T21. It seems a likely location for a Mansus expedition, which are known to be hazardous. And yes, T21 is very likely to be the turn we do the Frangiclave expedition, which is also hazardous. However! Because of the Frangiclave expedition, we are very likely to be carrying around three(!!!) Name-granted Influences, from Mareinette (likely Grail), Biedde (Edge), and Baldomare (likely Lantern). So if we want some real metaphysical oomf when we go poking our nose into the Tower, T21 seems to be, somewhat ironically, the safest turn to do it. Granted, this entire point is predicated on us actually getting the SH Sacrament on T20, but, well. You can only plan for luck so much.

 

[DelightedOne]

Might be better to just heal Scarred as soon as we can, especially if we want to go on the Frangiclave Expedition. There is also the narrative effects of healing Velvet, it could change a lot if that is the main objective of her "route", like Jade Whistle learning to move on and Comet choosing to be himself instead of a weapon.

I confess rushing the SH Sacrament is one of the things I want to do next turn but we should see the end of the turn to decide.

The Tower sounds more like the path to the Moon than a Mansus Expedition and since that is another Victory we are even less prepared to get we should leave it alone.

Buuuut... If anyone is looking for an unconventional Victory Harmony is right there, only costs 1 Jade action to progress in it next turn(and it also lets her develop rituals again, it is a bonus) and is probably the second Victory we are best prepared to reach since:

-We have two Alicorns on our side soon to be three when Celestia isn't at risk of turning into Daybreaker.
- Three of the Elements are our friends with 2 of them being Confidantes.
-Harmony noticed us so we might get some help if we show interest in reaching it.
-We live in the town right next to where the Tree of Harmony is.

 

[Nevermort]

Do we truly need scouting for Frangiclave expedition? Large expedition would have so many challenges that we can safely assume that all or almost all Lores would be needed either way.

 

[Greymere]

Do we truly need scouting for Frangiclave expedition? Large expedition would have so many challenges that we can safely assume that all or almost all Lores would be needed either way.

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Do you really want to walk into what will quite possibly be one of, if not the most hazardous thing we've done so far with a Name's permanent loyalty on the line, basically completely blind?

The Tower sounds more like the path to the Moon than a Mansus Expedition and since that is another Victory we are even less prepared to get we should leave it alone.

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Why would those things be mutually exclusive? The Tower can be both a Mansus Expedition and the route to the House of the Moon. And I don't want to explore it because it's part of a victory condition, I just want to see what's in the HotM.

It's a reflection of the Mansus, before its shattering. I would be really surprised if there's literally nothing of interest in there. I'm also kind of hoping that, being a reflection of the Mansus with (at least at some point) its own inhabitants, we might find alternative Sacrament sources for the ones the thread finds the most distasteful (Moth, Grail, Winter).

 

[DelightedOne]

Why would those things be mutually exclusive? The Tower can be both a Mansus Expedition and the route to the House of the Moon. And I don't want to explore it because it's part of a victory condition, I just want to see what's in the HotM.

It's a reflection of the Mansus, before its shattering. I would be really surprised if there's literally nothing of interest in there. I'm also kind of hoping that, being a reflection of the Mansus with (at least at some point) its own inhabitants, we might find alternative Sacrament sources for the ones the thread finds the most distasteful (Moth, Grail, Winter).

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Fair point.

I never really understood why people were uncomfortable with the Winter Sacrament, Velvet already killed before and ordered DoA to kill ponies so it is not like it is anything new.

 

[Nevermort]

Do you really want to walk into what will quite possibly be one of, if not the most hazardous thing we've done so far with a Name's permanent loyalty on the line, basically completely blind?

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Follow our Moth teaching, think how many actions it can save us
But more seriously would we even have bits to take someone beside Velvet and Axe? If not then it does not matter much which barriers there are.

 

[Greymere]

Follow our Moth teaching, think how many actions it can save us
But more seriously would we even have bits to take someone beside Velvet and Axe? If not then it does not matter much which barriers there are.

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Exactly one

I mean, it does a bit, even with just DoA and Velvet. There'd be no point, for example, in bringing a Grail Influence if all the obstacles with a Grail option also have e.g. an Edge option (edit: or there are no Grail obstacles at all), since we'd be running Velvet's Edge 4 + DoA's Edge 3 + A Resolution.

 

[Nevermort]

Exactly one

I mean, it does a bit, even with just DoA and Velvet. There'd be no point, for example, in bringing a Grail Influence if all the obstacles with a Grail option also have e.g. an Edge option (edit: or there are no Grail obstacles at all), since we'd be running Velvet's Edge 4 + DoA's Edge 3 + A Resolution.

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Aren't we more need Heart influence though? We will need one to reach all Lore 4 by T21 to teach Luna and the rest of the family lvl4 Lores

 

[Greymere]

Aren't we more need Heart influence though? We will need one to reach all Lore 4 by T21 to teach Luna and the rest of the family lvl4 Lores

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Okay, but like. One of these things is on somewhat of a time limit, and it's not the teaching actions. If we fail at Frangiclave on T21 because we took a useless Influence, there's going to be more than a few complications. And the Grail thing was just an example. It may turn out that we do actually really want the Grail Influence and the Heart Influence wouldn't be useful for any obstacles.

 

[Pittauro]

we are very likely to be carrying around three(!!!) Name-granted Influences

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and now I'm wondering if we could somehow do multiple expedition stuff then.

The Tower. The Frangiclave. The Manehattan Cult...

The Tower sounds more like the path to the Moon than a Mansus Expedition and since that is another Victory we are even less prepared to get we should leave it alone.

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why couldn't it be both? Ruined Church was on the path towards the Mansus, and yet it was also a Mansus expedition.

I'm not even saying to do the Tower for moon progress, but because it's likely to reward us significantly, like all expeditions did.

Do you really want to walk into what will quite possibly be one of, if not the most hazardous thing we've done so far with a Name's permanent loyalty on the line, basically completely blind?

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Counter question: WHAT would you do differently, if we got the intel?

Are you worried about combat? Bring Biedde. Everything else can be deal with by basically just Axe and Velvet. (highest general bonus and the all-4 rerolls and +20)

It makes sense to scry only if we actually expect it would change our preparations, but at that point it might just be cheaper to... well... bring an extra Name.

I can't imagine an expedition where Axe + Velvet + Biedde can't win.

Fair point.

I never really understood why people were uncomfortable with the Winter Sacrament, Velvet already killed before and ordered DoA to kill ponies so it is not like it is anything new.

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because it could be anyone (not on our contact list), so it's very much a "press this button, someone dies, you get a million dollars" scenario.

The action is explicitly evil.

There IS an argument to be made that it could be "worth it", in that we're using this power to help many people, and 3 lives nobody will ever be able to trace to us are not much in the great scheme of things... but it leaves people uncomfortable.

Personally I'm mostly fine with it, because... well, the end DOES sometimes justify the means. Not always, but sometimes.

---

Well, we have many high value actions in our queue

1)SH Sacrament
2)Outsider
3)Frangiclave
4)Heal the scar
5)Biedde Edge Sacrament
6)Knock Sacrament (we're VERY close!)
7)Copper
8)All-4 to teach family and Selene together... though worst case we can teach Selene on her own first?
9)the lvl 6 book


as usual our plans are in flux, and they depend on how things turn out this turn.

 

[Venerable Ro]

With the scar thing I'd like to wrangle our way into having Cadance in attendance. The Watsonian reason can be that we're proposing to use this ritual to heal Shining, and possibly teach it to Cadance later so she can heal Twilight. The Doyalist reason would be that there's memories bound up in our wounds, the Incision was supposed to reveal one but Mareinette ate it, so when we heal our [Wound] we're going to get the entirety of our repressed trauma cracking us in the face all at once.

Velvet really oughtn't be alone for that, and I can't think of a better pony to help her through it than Cadance.

Main issue would be keeping ponies not loyal to us and especially Celestia from Dreaming, so they don't advance their Lores and identify us.
Otherwise in the future a possible way to introduce Lores to Celestia is to show her Starswirl book, where he mentions that he kept some knowledge from sisters. Then ask Celestia for access to Royal Library books.

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Hence my plan to mime our way through the first levels of the Mansus again and document the steps involved for the Bureau's benefit. We get it down on paper that we are the "first" pony (possibly modern pony so as to avoid conflict with chatty Names reminiscing on days long past) to pass the various gates, and then any recognition that comes after the fact is preemptively legitimized.

When it comes to Copper and her lot I'm of two minds. On the one hand we could "Trotsky" her and erase all possible records or non-affiliate memory of the Cult so we have a fresh historical slate. On the other hand we could use them as a scapegoat and blame them and their like for all past actions malevolent and unnatural, setting ourselves and the Bureau up as the "correct" practitioners and the cults as the "twisted perversion".