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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

I would honestly like to simply accrue more associates. "Friendship is magic" as the tagline goes, and so far making friends has gone very well for us.
This is honestly an understatement. If we use their specializations effectively, given how widely we've stretched our grasp each Confidant or active summon we have is another Velvet action per turn.

A Velvet action is worth a lot.
 
Social connections with say, Mayor Mare or Cheerilee, or perhaps even Pinkie if we met up with her, could have clued us into this and other happenings in the town much earlier.
Mhmm. I... Pretty well agree. The only thing that I feel strongly about here is, it's not going to be Pinkie.

Call it a hunch, or maybe a guess, or perhaps a blind shot in the dark, but Pinkie is...
Biedde is not really friendable. Pinkie feels a similar way in the opposite direction. Laughably easy to befriend to the point of friendship, all but impossible to befriend past that point.
At least, with how Velvet tends to see things.

But, I'm down for friending up Mayor Mare or Cheerilee. Just kinda have the minor social malus/social bonus of being the Head of the Not Secret Police.
 
This is honestly an understatement. If we use their specializations effectively, given how widely we've stretched our grasp each Confidant or active summon we have is another Velvet action per turn.

A Velvet action is worth a lot.

Precisely! If we had, say, gotten Applejack on board a while back then it could potentially have been her making some or all of those reagents last turn ,for example. Which would have meant that Velvet could do other useful things such as socialize more ponies or perhaps examine that Knock artifact we still have knocking about.

It could go exponential if we just got things off the ground and invested the initial effort.
 
I pretty strongly disagree with a lot of this. And you know, it's a lull between updates, perfect time for some strategic arguments! :V

First, Velvet is in a very different position than she was, not least with Glory so at hand. And second, I think you all underestimate the challenges of getting more confidants and overestimate the value.

Velvet's position and role and power base has changed. We were the administrator of a Noble estate. Now we are head of the Lunar Bureau. So yes, we can social Cherillee. Or we can social Midday Dew, or Fair Trial. Or we can do one of the other hugely valuable things with Velvet actions.

Even more importantly — the Glory is RIGHT THERE. We know exactly what actions we need to take. Do we think advancing social relationships (and not even to the point of Confidant!) is going to get us to victory faster than actions directly devoted to that victory?

Especially because: No, more confidants/a wider social base is not extremely useful.

A normal pony with Lore 0 is just not very effective at many actions. They take a long time to level up. That's the whole point of cover our bases — it was added explicitly because normal ponies can't do a ton for us right now!

Compare that to a summon, which gets use strong actions, immediately.

(Maybe they'd have side benefits, sure. But I think you're overestimating how much they'd take care of.)

It also takes time. Actions to make confidants, actions to level them up. Even if it might have been worth it in the past, it's not worth it now.

It could go exponential if we just got things off the ground and invested the initial effort.
Maybe it could have. But we're not acting then, we're acting now. With Glory in reach.

We have also, almost completely neglected our social economy and infrastructure, such that we are now having monetary and action issues because there aren't enough resources to go around. Velvet is having to personally make every single ritual reagent herself, even the very simplest ones that any associate with two levels of Forge could manage, just as an example.
Alchemy was Velvet's realization. It's not something any Forge pony could do.
This is honestly an understatement. If we use their specializations effectively, given how widely we've stretched our grasp each Confidant or active summon we have is another Velvet action per turn.

A Velvet action is worth a lot.
I disagree — We've just been given a ratio for how confidant actions translate to Velvet actions! It's lower than this! Look at the challenges we've had with finding effective actions for Rarity (who we mostly use for bits) and Fluttershy.
 
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I hope it's the Stone version. The Gods-From-Stone were mostly cool. At the very least, there seemed to be considerably less deliberate malice and divinely sponsored/rewarded cannibalism.
I'm not actually sure if it was the Gods-From-Stone that instituted the crime, tbh. It at least wasn't around long enough for the Names of the Wheel and Flint to fool around with each other, which produced Antaios and Laiagh. And while Laiagh did eat all of her and Antaios's kids it's not entirely clear whether that's because of the whole Crime of the Sky thing or because she's just Like That.

Plus that little tidbit that alukites are like... Red Grail-animated zombies or something?
We have no idea if they really weren't all that cruel, that the Seven-Coils was cruel or at the very least apathetic in the face of his delight is pretty well established. That's mostly because of the Hours wiping out mention of them yeah but the bits we do know show contradictory info and until we get more clarification I'd be hard pressed to say either era or it's members were better than the other. Like the Tide could've loved some manner of the things the Grail does too, it is her principle that most likely became Grail after all.

As for the Crime, the implication was that it was the Stone Hours who instituted it just before or during the Lithomachy and the Red-Grail thing is very sus to me, after all she opposes Eternity and more Immortals suits her purposes, why would she back the Crime? Unless the punishment of the Crime is death and the Grail is keeping Alukites alive to inflate the numbers even if they're all criminals. Or maybe the text isn't referring to the Grail doing it but rather the Grail principal being used in which case the Sisters are the prime suspect.

Also, I support Spider's arguments, more confidants is a waste especially because it's been something like half a dozen turns since we put an action towards raising them specifically because we have too much on our plates, it's also flat out better to focus on befriending Names, we need to get a Lvl 7 book for Baldo, ask Marinette what she'd need to favour us more (that isn't eating Silky) or just assume it's high Lvl grail stuff and go hunting. We need to free DoA and advance her quest line, get the sacraments within reach, deal with our enemies like Copper, Windy and whatever fucking MLP villains decide to crawl out of the annals of History.

And beyond all of that is the fact the Glory is within reach, every action that isn't helping us win is an action put towards losing. Some losing actions are better than others like dealing with Copper and Windy but making more useless friends is firmly not in that category. I get that some of you guys want to focus on Harmony but that's gonna take soooo much time to get off the ground and if the Master's visit has taught us anything it's that time is against us, the longer we play the more chances we get to fuck up. Our last fuck up cost the world an RA, I do not want to stick around long enough to do so again.
 
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As for the Crime, the implication was that it was the Sone Hours who instituted it just before or during the Lithomachy and the Red-Grail thing is very sus to me, after all she opposes Eternity and more Immortals suit her purposes, why would she back the Crime? Unless the punishment of the Crime is death and the Grail is keeping Alukites alive to inflate the numbers even if they're all criminals. Or maybe the text isn't referring to the Grail doing it but rather the Grail principal being used in which case the Sisters are the prime suspect.

When the heart no longer beats, the Grail may keep the spirit in the body, and an appetite is indicated to sustain. (Alukites are the best-known, but not the only, of this nature). This is the waning-moon mode…
Considering the book refers to the Grail rather than just "Grail", I'm pretty sure it's referring to the Red Grail. Plus there's the deal she made with Laiagh to recruit her as a Name, which I'm pretty sure is the origin of the Liegian's "outside the Mansus's laws" status.
 
Sooooo it is the Grail doing it (well not her alone but it's mostly her) for unknown but Grail reasons. I think she was the one who commanded Marinette to hold her Key? So it has to suit her purposes in some way.
 
Even more importantly — the Glory is RIGHT THERE. We know exactly what actions we need to take.

Do we?

We require "the blood of an outsider" in order to quench the Crucible-Lock.

We know that there is an outsider "in Canterlot" and we have a task to determine its location.

We do not know what that location is.

We do not know for certain what the outsider is.

We do not know what will be necessary to access the outsider.

We do not know how to acquire the blood of this outsider.

We do not know if acquiring the blood of the outsider will be immediately hazardous.

We do not know if said hypothetical hazard would endanger our family (in which case Velvet will not do it)

Not to mention one of the most important things of all, we don't know if there's going to be an Apostle run. I personally would bet on it, and I'd really like to leave myself something other than a Moth-scented dumpster fire of a kingdom to work with.
 
Quite a few of these feel like you're adding for the sake of adding them, artificially inflating difficulty of the task in other's view.
We know that there is an outsider "in Canterlot" and we have a task to determine its location.

We do not know what that location is.
Like this one is redundant. Yes we don't know the location of the Outsider, hence the task to find them.
We do not know for certain what the outsider is.
Yes but we have a damn good guess that we are almost 90% sure is correct.
We do not know how to acquire the blood of this outsider.

We do not know if acquiring the blood of the outsider will be immediately hazardous.

We do not know if said hypothetical hazard would endanger our family (in which case Velvet will not do it)
Again a damn good guess as to how we get it and as for it being a potential hazard? It most likely won't be both because the option to kill the sleeping Luna didn't mention anything like that and because such a condition makes no bloody sense from a gameplay perspective.
Not to mention one of the most important things of all, we don't know if there's going to be an Apostle run. I personally would bet on it, and I'd really like to leave myself something other than a Moth-scented dumpster fire of a kingdom to work with.
If there is an Apostle run then we'd be in an even better position, Long or Name Velvet who gets to keep all her shit? We can make the quest a leisurely stroll and still be practically guaranteed a win, any win.

The actions we need to take are in order: find the Outsider, get the Blood, find a place to bring the Blood to in the Mansus, break the Lock, pass through the Tricuspid Gate.

This is all not even addressing the fact our progress into the other paths is significantly worse. To the point we don't even have a path, just the vague knowledge of one's existence. We have repeated WoGs that the Glory is the only feasible path left to us let's not go assuming we know more then the QM.
 
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Yes but we have a damn good guess that we are almost 90% sure is correct.

Alright then, let's go with that supposition. Discord's statue, the petrified form of the Old Serpent, the God of Chaos himself, the spirit which was only defeated by the intervention of whatever Harmony is and before that made a bad joke of both alicorn princesses in open combat.

That outsider.

Since he is not in the statue garden we can plausibly assume, or reasonably presume, that Celestia has had him moved to secure holding so as to ensure he doesn't break loose. Considering that all the recent chaos and disharmony has not resulted in chocolate rain and a checkerboard landscape, it seems her precautions were successful. That must be quite the vault.

So then, all we have to do is get into Canterlot Castle (ourselves unless you want to trust a Name with the key to Glory?) get to the vaults capable of securing him, employ whatever technique that allows us to capture his blood, and then get out again unscathed and undetected so that we can find a place to go to sleep so we can enter the Mansus.

Simple.

How do you propose we do this hypothetical thing?
 
A couple of things, we'd have presumably found the place before going in, it's a search objective just as actually finding the Outsider is. As for how to do it undetected?

Simple, we don't.

We dumpster Daybreaker and then get permission to get the Blood, bring Names (and Alicorns) along with rules and contingencies if we need to. It's not like any of them know the importance of the Blood unless we tell them. And if getting past the Tricuspid Gate is the same as in CS then we just need to have a total of T18 in a Lore. That could be from an Influence, Lore Level, Minion, Artefact or a Reagent.

I will once again reiterate that this is the Bird sanctioned path, the others are worse. Whatever apprehension you have for Glory it should be nothing compared to the others.
 
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So then, all we have to do is get into Canterlot Castle (ourselves unless you want to trust a Name with the key to Glory?) get to the vaults capable of securing him, employ whatever technique that allows us to capture his blood, and then get out again unscathed and undetected so that we can find a place to go to sleep so we can enter the Mansus.

Simple.

How do you propose we do this hypothetical thing?
Sounds like a Moth check to me. Or an expedition.

You're right, we should get another Confidant, we need someone to sacrifice for the Moth Sacrament! :V

Really though, I trust Bird to give us obstacles we can at least attempt to tackle? We are very skilled at a wide array of things, we are capable of doing a lot.
Not to mention one of the most important things of all, we don't know if there's going to be an Apostle run. I personally would bet on it, and I'd really like to leave myself something other than a Moth-scented dumpster fire of a kingdom to work with
Man oh man I do not think we have the luxury of worrying about post-epilogue content.

Getting the Glory is perilous enough. We don't need to be focused on what might come after.
 
Harder, not worse. Glory is only better in the sense of being the one we are closest to reach, the rest are just a lot more work.
You get what I mean.
Man oh man I do not think we have the luxury of worrying about post-epilogue content.

Getting the Glory is perilous enough. We don't need to be focused on what might come after.
I think what he means is that after getting the Glory we have to do an Apostle run ro become an Hour.
 
I think what he means is that after getting the Glory we have to do an Apostle run ro become an Hour.
Oh, then I think that's also silly. Reaching the Glory is "one of the ways this quest will end." It is a Victory.
So... What I'm hearing...
Is we need to have Velvet look for the outsider.
Oh for sure! I was okay not doing it this turn because given that we lacked a way of reaching 200 this turn (eg with Baldomare scrying Frangiclave) it's okay to leave it for next.

But I would like to give it some focus next turn.
 
Also real ironic that if Windy stuck around he would have had a Wolf cult to get some Wolf philosophy and join.
eh, he doesn't have the right mentality to join THIS specific wolf cult.

Also he knows enough of the Lores and the eldritch that his first thought would likely be "this is Velvet's backup cult, isn't it?"

What a waste, we have sacraments we could use sacrifices for you know daughter.
...not where my mind went at first, but it's not like you're wrong.

Is this a Moth-aligned wolf cult? One pegasus removed a eye to see better, Soft sweeps doesn't know what she's doing, Amor is woodcarving without looking at what she's making...
Very much so, yes.

Huh. I guess the therapy group is becoming corrupted at a significantly swifter rate than I was expecting. I thought it would take at least another Wolf or two to start killing ponies, yet they have been doing it with just Evil and Paranoia. At this rate, I could see them destroying most of the country by Wolf 6, even if we never unleashed the seed in Soft Sweeps.

Also, it's interesting that she seemed to have been sleepwalking for this. How long has this been going on?
In their defense, they only seem to kill their own and ONLY when they're "too far gone".

considering how depressed and maybe even suicidal some of them were before their group started... it might even still be a net positive.

The problem is once they start to cause troubles for those OUTSIDE of the group, which I imagine is likely to happen with the 4th wolf if we get that far.

Also, accidentally a whole pack of band new Mansus seekers, we'd better get on with things before they start climbing around in the Stairs. The Old Wolf isn't waiting for us to mosey our way through the game anymore, another player's hit the field. On the other hand, the Fields will probably pose quite the effective barrier to this lot, serenity being particularly tempting to those burdened by grief.
We probably want to check out the whole of the Ashen Wastes before they do. If there's something like a heirloom-tier wolf artifact, we don't want them to get it!

Having gone back and read through both the chapter that directly dealt with the revivification and the latter chapter where Soft had her mission and met Cantrip, I feel confident in asserting that Soft is entirely present. It wouldn't be much of a Wolf-wish if we didn't get exactly what we asked for after all, and a wholly-present Soft Sweeps being slowly hollowed out and corrupted by our actions would be so much worse, no?

We know in the local cosmology that death isn't a simple cessation, therefore a particularly ambitious/abhorrent working could certainly retrieve a wayward soul. Especially if the death was, recent.

So, inside our daughter is two agendas, her own and The Wolf's. Issue is, Soft is playing with a significant handicap in that she doesn't know there's a contest on at all, she can't win if she doesn't know she's fighting.
a good way to put it.

Though I'd add it's not really even her contest to compete in. It's Velvet's, with Soft being just the potential casualty.

it's by VELVET'S ACTIONS that the Wolf will become stronger. not by Soft's.

Soft does feel... dead with how I have read it. Not that she is dead, or that she might not have agency, but that she... She is different. Different in a way that isn't wolf like.

I disagree.

Keep in mind, Soft went through life-changing amounts of tragedy, to the point she killed herself.

And then we brought her back, and gaslit her into it having never happened.

and, of course, the Wolf has slowly and slightly corrupted her too. It seems completely fair and reasonable character progression to me.

What do you mean, Silky's Cult is one of Velvet's greatest threats. She has devout followers, one might even call them "crusaders," she has a base of operation out of the public eye on Apple land, and from all the scenes with her we can tell she's steadily subverting all of our Names. She's already made a ton of progress with Axe. :V

She's also recently joined the Colonel's ranks as the latest Pawn of Biedde, and would you look at that her little sister is an Alicorn Princess!

in the story that wasn't, where we didn't summon Baldomare and she was summoned by Copper instead the second time, Baldomare even offered to not go after our family if I remember right!

Not unless Questionable Questing of all places takes offense to the pony cultist quest. Hopefully we can manage to avoid doing anything so exciting.
I can't imagine it happening here. Isn't there plenty of mind control and slavery quests and stories on this forum? Mareinette herself would probably stop and take notes from some of those!

Wondering how people will think on the therapy group now. Wondering how much of that information will seep into people's decision making.

On the flipside, if the Bureau was here they would most likely arrest Soft Sweeps as the leader of the creepy agony-murder cult.

I don't know... technically speaking they did nothing illegal.

Well, outside of killing the "too far gone" cult members. We can assume this was not the first time.

Which, sure, it's bad... but Nobody outside the group is likely to ever find out, as they're all people who "lost everything" and they're all each other's alibi.

It could be solved as simply as them saying "he decided to leave to get a new life elsewhere".

I hope it's the Stone version. The Gods-From-Stone were mostly cool. At the very least, there seemed to be considerably less deliberate malice and divinely sponsored/rewarded cannibalism.

I don't know if I believe it.

THe Mansus is a reflection of the Wake, and the Wake is a reflection of the Mansus.

Saying that the Gods from Stone were less cruel than the Gods from humanity's time is a lot like saying that the world was better before civilization was born. That humanity inherently made the world worse (or in this case, ponykind).

But... what value could humanity or ponykind put in a world without them in it? Why would you ever worship a time when we lived in caves, didn't have writing or agriculture, no cities, just a nomadic lifestyle of hunting and gathering?

Well, there's admittedly a question of what the Carapace Cross were like...

I disagree — We've just been given a ratio for how confidant actions translate to Velvet actions! It's lower than this! Look at the challenges we've had with finding effective actions for Rarity (who we mostly use for bits) and Fluttershy.
eh, it's all in how we use them.

Biedde is perfect for guard actions, Baldomare to find stuff (new expedition sites, scrying rituals), Mareinette COULD do lots of things for us if we trusted her enough for them, and so on. And all of them can give us lore lessons and influences

They're as good or even BETTER than Velvet actions.. in very specific niches.

It's just that we often don't need those niches, admittedly. Though with our starting to do Expeditions that's likely to change.

I think we're better off focusing quality over quantity for the most part, it's worked well so far.



All of that said, I also agree we shouldn't delay Glory stuff too much. If the quest ends with it, then we've won, and if it doesn't we at least likely get Long status, which is a massive buff all of its own. Maybe it would give us a "General Bonus" comparable to the Names to replace our "mortal" stats? Considering Mortals cap at 20, having Longhood reward you with something like a general +25 would be considerable and makes a lot of sense.

in any case, either turn 20 or 21 we should finish the Outsider Search. I say maybe 21 instead of 20 only because of how many urgent things we have to deal with between book lvl 6, Frangiclave, SH (and maybe Knock and Edge) Sacrament, heal the scar, and so on.

And beyond all of that is the fact the Glory is within reach, every action that isn't helping us win is an action put towards losing. Some losing actions are better than others like dealing with Copper and Windy but making more useless friends is firmly not in that category. I get that some of you guys want to focus on Harmony but that's gonna take soooo much time to get off the ground and if the Master's visit has taught us anything it's that time is against us, the longer we play the more chances we get to fuck up. Our last fuck up cost the world an RA, I do not want to stick around long enough to do so again.
harsh, but true.

I'm not convinced Glory is insta-win, there might be more stuff beyond it (I'm still waiting a Sun-in-Splendour or Forge-of-Days sized surprise beyond the Tricuspid), but it's not like we CAN work on Harmony stuff right now anyway except for Memory of Light, which is kinda something I want her to do anyway because she doesn't have that many good alternative uses for her actions.

Do we?

We require "the blood of an outsider" in order to quench the Crucible-Lock.

We know that there is an outsider "in Canterlot" and we have a task to determine its location.

We do not know what that location is.

We do not know for certain what the outsider is.

We do not know what will be necessary to access the outsider.

We do not know how to acquire the blood of this outsider.

We do not know if acquiring the blood of the outsider will be immediately hazardous.

We do not know if said hypothetical hazard would endanger our family (in which case Velvet will not do it)

Not to mention one of the most important things of all, we don't know if there's going to be an Apostle run. I personally would bet on it, and I'd really like to leave myself something other than a Moth-scented dumpster fire of a kingdom to work with.

finding the location is as simple as spending 2 to 4 Velvet/Confidant actions on the search.

Now, killing the Outsider is definitely not going to be EASY, admittedly.

as for what/who it is... It's near certainly Discord. The question is if he's still stoned, AND if we can somehow kill him without removing the certification.


...Actually... maybe we should hurry. If we find Discord soon, we might be able to steal the statue, prepare some kind of ritual to depower him and make it easier to kill him, and have everything ready before the stone prison fails.

If he gets free first, that makes things SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult.

This is all assuming he's NOT free yet, but that Celestia just moved him away.

as for apostle run... I expect a follow up, but I doubt we'd be giving up control of Velvet. Why would Velvet ever leave the Wake? If she becomes a Long she'll likely stay there and continue doing things herself.

The actions we need to take are in order: find the Outsider, get the Blood, find a place to bring the Blood to in the Mansus, break the Lock, pass through the Tricuspid Gate.
more or less true.

Actually it's possible that Discord might get free at some point (if he isn't already), and that could make things much harder for us in trying to kill him.

Find the Outsider we know how to do.

find a place to bring the blood is also something we know how to do, it's an action we already can take!

GETTING the blood is still a ???, but my guess is that Outsider search will unlock an expedition site to steal Discord's Statue, and then we'll likely have to create a ritual to allow for the safe murder of Discord.

After that... well, if there's more obstacles beyond the Tricuspid, we won't know until we get there.


I'm still all for continuing the other two paths, but that's mostly because... they don't really require THAT much investment right now?

Jade for Memory of Light (Harmony), SH Sacrament and tower exploration for Moon. and I want the Sacrament anyway for personal power, so that's not really much of a cost to me.

So then, all we have to do is get into Canterlot Castle (ourselves unless you want to trust a Name with the key to Glory?) get to the vaults capable of securing him, employ whatever technique that allows us to capture his blood, and then get out again unscathed and undetected so that we can find a place to go to sleep so we can enter the Mansus.

Simple.

How do you propose we do this hypothetical thing?
That's actually really simple, if not easy. It's just going to be an expedition where we'll want to use multiple Names, not particularly different from Frangiclave one I imagine.

and it's not like we can really improve our odds much beyond what they are right now, when we have most of the Names and are about to reach all-4. We can get some Sacraments maybe, and the Forge or Winter Names (if we deal with Copper), but that's kinda it.

Or we deal with Daybreaker first, and then have Luna give us the statue herself... though I expect Discord to get free first if we go that route.

So... What I'm hearing...
Is we need to have Velvet look for the outsider.
or followers. Baldomare specifically gets a +80 to that roll after all, and we only need 200 total progress.

Oh for sure! I was okay not doing it this turn because given that we lacked a way of reaching 200 this turn (eg with Baldomare scrying Frangiclave) it's okay to leave it for next.

But I would like to give it some focus next turn.
I'd rather get the Sacrament first, especially if we're giving ourselves the SH Influence next turn, but we'll see
 
Also he knows enough of the Lores and the eldritch that his first thought would likely be "this is Velvet's backup cult, isn't it?"
If he found out Soft Sweeps was her daughter he would be sure of it. :V

and, of course, the Wolf has slowly and slightly corrupted her too. It seems completely fair and reasonable character progression to me.
Not really, Bird said Soft would be fine and she is... what he didn't say was that the seed of the Daughter wouldn't benefit from having a new Brother. The thing that she will become if we keep doing Regrettable Actions has been acting since the vote for her "approach" with the support group and this was the best outcome possible since they are extremely isolated and only hurting cult members and the Daughter-to-be is only recruiting those too far gone(that made me so happy when I noticed what it means for Twilight).
 
Not really, Bird said Soft would be fine and she is... what he didn't say was that the seed of the Daughter wouldn't benefit from having a new Brother. The thing that she will become if we keep doing Regrettable Actions has been acting since the vote for her "approach" with the support group and this was the best outcome possible since they are extremely isolated and only hurting cult members and the Daughter-to-be is only recruiting those too far gone(that made me so happy when I noticed what it means for Twilight).
I'd call that corruption, so I don't get your "not really".

it's not "terminal" so to speak, and while she's doing some harm she's also giving some otherwise near suicidal ponies something to live for, so all in all I'm not too worried (yet).

oh, and good catch about what it means for Twilight. Truly, if she's not part of this cult yet, it DOES imply she's not beyond hope yet...
 
I'd call that corruption, so I don't get your "not really".
Understandable, allow me to illuminate.

If it was corruption then Soft Sweeps would be far more aware of what she is doing, as in she would be awake and be doing it willingly like the ponies the Daughter-to-be corrupted through her but instead she is sleepwalking, clueless about what the Seventh is using her for.

Something(we all know what) is growing within her and my theory is that if we do all of the Regrettable Actions that thing won't change her as much it will become her, take over her existence and etc. If the Moth and the Red Grail did it to the Wheel and the Tide why can't a Daughter of the Wolf do the same to a deadmortal pegasus?

All of that is supported by the fact that "activating" Soft Sweeps is still a Regrettable Action and considering how each Son is worse than the previous one and the Daughter is the last, I can't think of anything more Regrettable to Velvet than something that takes Soft from her after what she did to keep her.
 
Actually it's possible that Discord might get free at some point (if he isn't already), and that could make things much harder for us in trying to kill him.

How to deal with free Discord in four simple steps:

1.Claim to be a chaos aligned cult (mostly true) who worked tirelessly to release him ( hide sacrifical dagger inside your robes if you already brought it with you)
2.Suggest to turn everyone into children because no one generate more chaos than them (start with Celestia).
3.Get an Advisor position (We are undoubtedly the most qualified. Unless Pinkie runs as competition).
4.Stab him in the back when he least expect it (Velvet already have relevant experience).

See, easy. :V

More seriously I doubt that Discord is time sensitive. By canon timetable he should already be free, meaning that whenever he is, it is protected from chaos emanations. Plus if we did not choose option of Baldomare telling us, according to Bird we likely would have been forced to get on merry chase of false trails that would have takes us quite some time. We already have a head start on it.
 
More seriously I doubt that Discord is time sensitive. By canon timetable he should already be free, meaning that whenever he is, it is protected from chaos emanations. Plus if we did not choose option of Baldomare telling us, according to Bird we likely would have been forced to get on merry chase of false trails that would have takes us quite some time. We already have a head start on it.
actually not necessarily.

it's not super-clear where we are in canon terms. We know the end of S1 Gala was canceled, but I forgot when it was meant to happen.

We also accelerate the changeling arc, making it happen far earlier.

All we know for sure is we're before S3, as the Crystal Empire hasn't returned yet.

I suppose if we go with 1 season = 1 year, the implication is that we're a bit over half into season 2? but MLP never gives a clear timeline, the whole show might have lasted anywhere between 3 to 9 years I think.

quick check, a reddit post notices how there's 5 heartwarming episodes, so I suppose the whole show lasted AT LEAST 5 years (and I also remember at least 2 Galas)... but that still doesn't make it clear how much each season is, or if they have differing lengths.

as for "joining Discord"... I'm not sure if he'd even be interested right now in having "followers" instead of playthings. Though the idea is pretty funny.
 
eh, it's all in how we use them.

Biedde is perfect for guard actions, Baldomare to find stuff (new expedition sites, scrying rituals), Mareinette COULD do lots of things for us if we trusted her enough for them, and so on. And all of them can give us lore lessons and influences

They're as good or even BETTER than Velvet actions.. in very specific niches.

It's just that we often don't need those niches, admittedly. Though with our starting to do Expeditions that's likely to change.

I think we're better off focusing quality over quantity for the most part, it's worked well so far.
You're referring to Names here — but the discussion was about mortal Confidants!

Definitely Names are powerful and useful, I'm not doubting that!
 
You're referring to Names here — but the discussion was about mortal Confidants!

Definitely Names are powerful and useful, I'm not doubting that!
oh.

well, for mortal confidants... it really REALLY depends. But considering they take a fair amount of investment (friend and good friend are easy, but confidant takes something special) we're probably better off not investing too much in new ones.

I'd rather first max out Jade, Rarity and Fluttershy (and Selene and Family). MAYBE we'll get another confidant or two if the quest goes on for long enough, I suppose, though summoning a few Mares in the Light might be simpler.
 
Okay, took a while but I think I found a way to check where we are in the timeline: Hearth's Warming.

After looking for possible dates/time spans for the Grand Galloping Gala with no success, I started to look at season 2 episodes to see if I could recognize any events to see when we are... it didn't work but I remembered that we went through 1 yearly event in the quest(Hearth's Warming) when Bird gifted us Selene's Winter 2 lesson.

I then looked for it and found it happened at the start of turn 9, after that I looked for the Hearth's Warming play episode and discovered that it is the 11th of Season 2, so we will reach it on turn 21.

It could be an opportunity if the play still happens, it will be in Canterlot so we might be able to watch.

I also found out they tend to make dolls for the holiday(marruvine idols/winged dolls anyone?).
 
I disagree.

Keep in mind, Soft went through life-changing amounts of tragedy, to the point she killed herself.

And then we brought her back, and gaslit her into it having never happened.

and, of course, the Wolf has slowly and slightly corrupted her too. It seems completely fair and reasonable character progression to me.
Pardon, I kinda just want to print this out and title it "Cope"

Because, yes! You are, technically speaking, correct.
She's not dead. She is just the reanimated person of the same person that we ripped back in and installed into the same body with a lingering malignant shard of a reflection of the Wolf after she killed herself, whom we then gaslit her and everyone around by cracking and smothering them in Edge and Grail influence enough that they were unable to see and or remember the fact she killed herself, and is and was manifesting aspects of the Wolf unbeknownst to herself and others.

So... yes. She is not "dead" in the same way that a Flourishing Risen is.
But this is the part of the Ship of Theseus that I say "Yeah, that's not them anymore."
 
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Pardon, I kinda just want to print this out and title it "Cope"

Because, yes! You are, technically speaking, correct.
She's not dead. She is just the reanimated person of the same person that we ripped back in and installed into the same body with a lingering malignant shard of a reflection of the Wolf after she killed herself, whom we then gaslit her and everyone around by cracking and smothering them in Edge and Grail influence enough that they were unable to see and or remember the fact she killed herself, and is and was manifesting aspects of the Wolf unbeknownst to herself and others.

So... yes. She is not "dead" in the same way that a Flourishing Risen is.
But this is the part of the Ship of Theseus that I say "Yeah, that's not them anymore."
Same body, mostly same mind. Her core character traits of loyalty, dependability, and love for her family are intact. The last still causing her pain every day. Otherwise we'll have to argue that someone who after resuscitation had suffered memory loss for a specific period of time due to injury is no longer the same person they were before their brief span of death.

Now, if the wolf bit keeps growing, then I can see the argument for the Ship of Theseus, even if the seed of that wolf is from Soft's own overwhelming sorrow. But since her day to day actions largely consist of Soft Sweeps being Soft Sweeps, I'm going to say that she is still Soft Sweeps, just with her traumas buried in a very esoteric fashion.
 
I'd rather first max out Jade, Rarity and Fluttershy (and Selene and Family). MAYBE we'll get another confidant or two if the quest goes on for long enough, I suppose, though summoning a few Mares in the Light might be simpler.

It occurred to me the other day that Comet might demand we promise to keep Fluttershy out of serious/dangerous occult business and likewise promise not to try to use her as a lever to get him to do things for us. Love for her got him out of cult business, so he probably wouldn't be too happy to see us roping her into cult business.




Overall my thought on the whole Outsider, Glory, hurry-up-the-winning, and so on business is that it feels rushed. Inadvisably rushed. Luna and Cadance are committed to helping Celestia, a healthy Celestia freed of Daybreaker would be immensely grateful with Luna and Cadance vouching for us, at that point we could just ask for Discord's statue. The Crucible-Lock is amaranthine, it cannot be circumvented or broken except by the method that we have discovered. So there's no danger of someone getting to Glory ahead of us excepting for the highly unlikely chance of another outsider just lying around.

Now, I'd like to draw attention to a particular trait of ours.

-Above All Suspicion: The alicorns trust you, in a time where trust is a precious and scarce resource. Do. Not. Break. That. Trust;

This reads to me as an explicit warning not to fuck around, lest we find out. An exhausted Celestia was an unholy terror while murdering Chrysalis, the one brooding in the palace is rested and if she went critical I'm certain Daybreaker would be even more dangerous. Getting all of the way into the palace vaults undetected, doing whatever needed doing to Discord and then getting out again still without being detected is an extreme risk that goes directly against what both Luna and Cadance are working towards. Namely a stable and healthy Celestia.

This is not to say that if something somewhere goes wrong and Celestia/Daybreaker decides to flip the proverbial flaming table "our" two Alicorns won't fight back, but Velvet deliberately doing something that could or does trigger that meltdown would unequivocally count as a betrayal of trust. We've made promises after all, a promise to Luna to let her handle Celestia, and a promise to Cadance not to abandon her. I'd like to keep those promises.

I also note that involving Names in this expedition would mean directly tempting them with a real shot at Glory, Baldomare changed her mind, Axe or Biedde might just decide to take the opportunity. At the very least we could not under any circumstances risk Mareinette, even if she didn't want Glory she would absolutely want that Blood.

So to sum up, I think forcing the issue is an unacceptable risk when we have allies working to defuse the angry sun pony and a bit of patience will get us a far less destructive opportunity. In the meantime, we have a minimum of two expensive endeavors coming up in the Book and the Key, which will have to be tackled almost simultaneously given how Baldomare is coming up on her desummoning and Axe isn't very far behind. We're going to spend money, we're going to spend actions, and it's all going to scrape very closely to the walls because our margins are paper-thin. Everything is going to get more expensive, Biedde's payroll, Baldomare's Lvl 7 book, Axe's who knows what, Mareinette's who knows what, the Forge name that we'll probably find in the ruins of the Malleary and immediately try to summon, reagents, expeditions, Hearth's Warming gifts for the family, ect.

Rarity by herself can't finance our entire occult campaign, she's not that good.
 

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