Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Rafuki22]

I wonder how different would Smiles Edge Influence be and how it would contrast with Biedde's? The Bureau would certainly be confused.

 

[Shaper47]

I'm wishing we had the Edge Brand now instead of SH.

Edge Sacraments are just so cool

 

[Sveta08]

I see even as miles is curious what Velvets aiming at. But!
Fun speculation for later
For now?

I am... Glad to see what is. Will be wistful for what wasn't. And quite curious indeed...

The dream of a rebellion, of a fire, of a spark. Less man and more idea.
I do wonder what changes he will seek to nudge the world to endure.

Much as Smiles seems violent and dangerous and forward thinking in a way that will break things.... I wonder what he would touch, given access to people.
The words. The dreams. The aims.
How fertile the fields are from Paranoia. From the glare of an Absent Sun.
I wonder indeed...


He reminds me of the best worst kind of friend.

 

[DelightedOne]

I'm wishing we had the Edge Brand now instead of SH.

Edge Sacraments are just so cool

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And you have a very furry one you wanted us to take huh?

 

[ses]

If we're on the subject of Brands we wish we had instead the only option other than SH would have been Moth for me. We probably would have ended up hitting 4/4 Moth before the Master pulled her disappearing act if we had chosen it as our Brand and been able to take the Master's Invitation on like turn 15. Plus we wouldn't have lost Baldomare. I'm pretty sure the Dappled Ashes moth heirloom that got destroyed by our RA was at the end of the Master's Invitation mansus expedition. Taking the Master's Invitation while we were actively in the middle of betraying the cult would have been awesome to read.

But SH is the Lore that by far the most benefits from double-Sacrament. It's not even close considering how torn we've been between how cool our Personal SH is and Baldomare's invitation.

EDIT: If we hadn't gotten the two SH scraps from our Brand we wouldn't have gotten SH 4 in time for the Great Book Hunt, which means no reroll which means no [A Morning, an Afternoon, A History]. SH was the best Brand and it's not close.

 

[Shaper47]

And you have a very furry one you wanted us to take huh?

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That or the Lionsmith themselves or the natural one.

Every Edge Sacrament aside from the Colonel would be awesome.

The Colonel would be amazing to see but I don't think it would fit Velvet mechanically or narratively.

 

[Quaxotia]

I'm a little morbidly curious about what happens if we take the Wolf Winter Sacrament now (obviously not enough to vote for it though). Does it do nothing for the Edge component now, or will it override the Edge Sacrament with a Wolf variant due to the nature of being an RA?

 

[Shaper47]

Does it do nothing for the Edge component now, or will it override the Edge Sacrament with a Wolf variant due to the nature of being an RA?

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I'm pretty sure we keep Smiles Sacrament but we might learn how to give out our own Sacrament or get a trait.

So no override but maybe learn something cool for edge.

Getting traits from high level sources of lore is a thing afterall so probably just some edge trait.

 

[ses]

@OurLadyOfWires So about the Comet Feet sized elephant in the room? I know you mentioned you might scrap the entire concept of followers hitting Lore 5 due to how late the hour is.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

@OurLadyOfWires So about the Comet Feet sized elephant in the room? I know you mentioned you might scrap the entire concept of followers hitting Lore 5 due to how late the hour is.

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Could you kindly elaborate? I can't tell what exactly you are asking about.

Comet Feet is not your enemy, I fail to see how he is an elephant in anypony's room other than Fluttershy's.

 

[spiderhellian]

@OurLadyOfWires So about the Comet Feet sized elephant in the room? I know you mentioned you might scrap the entire concept of followers hitting Lore 5 due to how late the hour is.

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I think Comet has take a Lovers victory, and isn't really interested in pursuing deeper degrees of Edge Lore even if they were available…

Assuming you're asking if Smiles can give the Pony who rejected the Colonel's influence a Sacrament.

 

[ses]

Could you kindly elaborate? I can't tell what exactly you are asking about.

Comet Feet is not your enemy, I fail to see how he is an elephant in anypony's room other than Fluttershy's.

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We currently have Edge 5 and thus Velvet can potentially do a "Teach Comet" social action by the rules, and Comet is likely interested in breaking the block he's had for over a year. You said you didn't have the rules for getting a follower to Exalted hashed out and didn't know if you were going to bother doing so since it's so late in the game.

(And while normally Names dont give our followers invitations, Smiles seems fairly interested in giving his out and getting Comet to Edge 5 seems like the sort of thing that might earn him as a genuine Confidante outside of our fluttershy-arrangement. I honestly am very interested in what sort of narrative results having fluttercomet do Smile's action gifting will result in too considering both Comet's comet-ness and Fluttershy being a picture perfect representation of the Strength tarot card the Lionsmith corresponds to)

 

[Sintonir]

@OurLadyOfWires I think there is a need for some changes to the "Contacts and Names" threadmark, specifically to the Names section

 

[Pittauro]

He looked like something that came from the future. His eyes bright with ideas of how the world should be, and his large body somehow diminished by the weight and backwardness of your current time.

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oh, that's an interesting way to put the dichotomy of Lionsmith vs Colonel.

The world that is, vs the world that COULD be. Which is basically another way of going "status quo" vs "the revolution":

"For starters, you are growing stronger. The contrast between you and the other mortals is like night from day, and I know that didn't happen overnight."

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Indeed, Velvet has been growing every turn, for the whole quest. And her rate of growth is kind of absurd.

Left alone with no challenges and the tutorship of the Names, she could reach all-7 in a few years.

"You are also making yourself seamless," he continued. "I can smell some of your mistakes, here and there. But only traces of them. Only enough for me to know they were here, but no longer are. I cannot see them, because you have chosen to close your wounds rather than dwell on them."

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I have to wonder if there was an alternative approach to healing the wounds that would have been more Colonel-like...

No cutie mark. No Brand. Nothing in his great horse-sized flank that rippled with hard muscles every time he walked.

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as others have already noted.

"And when it comes to making monsters…" he chuckled darkly. "Well, I think you are well acquainted with that."

He said that, and he did not have to elaborate any further. The Woods, and the Tribal Door, and Equestria as a whole were more than enough reminders for you to understand what he meant to say.

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We do not particularly appreciate THAT part of Velvet's similarities to the Colonel, admittedly.

Not for Glory, which is out of reach.

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yep. definitely out of reach.

"But a promise is a promise. And whether you keep me around or decide we should go our separate ways, my old enemy now wants you removed from the board. So of course, I will help you make his struggle a little harder.

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That's a good point. after all, an enemy of the Colonel is someone the Lionsmith wouldn't mind helping a bit out of principle.

"There is an argument your flesh can make. One day, perhaps, you will argue it in an irrefragable way. But for now, at least, these are its opening words."

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...irrefragable? I did not know that word

Velvet Covers has reached Edge level 5.

You have also discussed more things with Smiles, including his plans for the Wake and his views on his relationship with you.

Smiles' "Befriending progression" has been set to "0/40." Smiles' sheet has been updated with more information on the rituals threadmark.

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EDGE: I Heal Without Scars: If a creature damages (causes wounds) to you and is later destroyed, you will instantly heal for whatever wounds you received from that creature. Exceptionally, this ability will trigger even if you are "Dancing with Death." (Level 5);

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...damn. this is BIG. It's BASICALLY the equivalent of the Windigoes' ability of recovering post-fight, in a way, as long as we win and kill.

It makes expeditions with combat much more doable for Velvet.

A pretty good combat trait. FINALLY we get a decent example of what a Sacrament can do.

Smiles has also explained to you how he can remain in the Wake:

Spoiler: I won't forget this

"The old fuck will always have more access to the Wake than I have. It's just the reality of how we are placed in the board. Still, I can teach this world to resist his ways."

Smiles wishes to "inoculate" this world against the Colonel's tyranny. He claims to have his ways, but he also realizes this world is new and strange to him, to the point that he will accept all the help he can get.

To that end, Smiles will perform "behind the scenes" actions, where he will (in his own words) "whisper a few things here and there so ponies know better."

He promised not to start any rebellions, and to keep fires at the barest minimum.

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...I'm not sure if I believe him. or if our definition of minimum coincides with HIS.

EXTENDING SMILES' SUMMONING PERIOD
-Once Smiles' summoning period ends, he will ask for Follower Actions to renew his bindings.
-For every additional turn you wish for him to stay in the Wake, he will ask for one additional Follower Action.
-The Follower Action for his summoning extension can be from any creature, even creatures that are "Unintelligent." But Velvet Covers' actions may not be used to renew his summoning period.
-This means he will ask for 1 Follower Action at the beginning of his fourth turn in the Wake, 2 Follower Actions at the beginning of his fifth turn in the Wake, 3 Follower Actions at the beginning of his sixth turn in the Wake, etc.
-Follower Actions used to renew his summoning will ONLY count as "+1" per Follower Action used, even if you use the actions of mortal ponies or Mareinette (see "Befriending" rules below for more information).

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ok, so indeed it increases each turn. That's a bit annoying.

BEFRIENDING SMILES
-Smiles operates on a "progress bar" mechanic. He will start his progress bar at "0/40." Once his progress bar reaches "40/40" he will be immediately BEFRIENDED.
-This "progress bar" represents Smiles' progress in subtly influencing pony culture to be more resistant to the Colonel's moves.
-EVERY TURN Smiles is in the Wake, he will add one point to his progress bar.
-EVERY Follower Action dedicated to renewing Smiles' summoning period will count as an equivalent number of points for his progress bar. (When you spend two Follower Actions to renew his summoning the second time, that will also add "+2" to his progress bar, on top of Smiles own natural "+1" per turn.)
-You may also "gift" Follower Actions to Smiles, representing extra effort in furthering his goals. "Gifted" follower actions are more effective, and follow special rules:
--Summoned creatures, even if they are Names, give "+1" to his progress bar. And "Unintelligent" creatures may NOT be gratuitously "gifted" to help him (although they can still be used to extend his summoning);
--Mortal ponies give "+2" to his progress bar, due to their understanding of the current era.
--Selene gives "+3" to his progress bar, due to her access to Ponykind's subconscious dreams.
--Velvet Covers gives "+5" to his progress bar per Personal Action gifted, due to her present influence.
--Mareinette, exceptionally, gives "+5" to his progress bar per Follower Action given despite being a summoned Name.
-You oppose the Colonel, even if you do not serve the Lionsmith. But laughing Smiles just sees this as an "enemy of my enemy" situation, and is ready to swear aid to your cause once he is done reinforcing this Era's culture.

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so...

use Risen for the normal extending, as they can't be used for the "gift".

mortal ponies = +2. That's Comet/Fluttershy, Rarity, Jade, our servants.
Selene = + 3. and we have two actions per turn, so potentially +6 in a turn.
Velvet = +5. significant.
Mareinette = +5

so... 2 Selene + 2 Mareinette +2 Velvet = 26 already.

Mortals give +2, but the first Cover Your Bases is better (2 mortal followers for 1 Velvet Action).

In any case, IF we trust him, we could manage in a couple of dedicated turns. The cost is a bit high, but it's not beyond our ability to pay.

Mareinette actions are the best "currency" to use with Smiles, and we'll get two per turn.

@OurLadyOfWires Could we potentially recruit temporary followers for Bits, to just have them work for Smiles? Kinda like in CS with the minions for hire. Or is the kind of help he requires too suspicious?

Torn Risen: 1
Rarity: 1
Jade Whistle: 1 0 (Borrowed on the previous turn)
Fluttershy: 1
Baldomare: 1
Mareinette: 1
Velvet Axe: 2
Biedde: 1
Cherenkolt: 1
Selene: 3
Household servants: 1

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Mareinette about to reach 2, Biedde no longer a thing, Baldomare and Cherenkolt will reach 2 soonish too.

So it becomes, before turn 3,

Torn Risen: 1
Rarity: 1
Jade Whistle: 1
Fluttershy/Comet: 1
Baldomare: 1 to become 2 on turn 23 if we do expedition immediately.
Mareinette: 2
Velvet Axe: 2
Biedde: 1
Smiles 1 (+ free expedition)
Cherenkolt: 1 to become 2 on turn 24 (if we do expedition immediately)
Selene: 3
Household servants: 1

So... Mareinette x2 + Velvet x2. That's 40 points in 2 turns. And it costs us zero bits too. Something worth considering.

Or we can use "leftover" Mortal followers to help.

Risen, Jade, Comet/Fluttershy, Servants, that's 8 points (though we want to convert 2 of those in a Velvet action at least. That way it's 9 points)


And getting him in All In, considering how strong he is for Combat, is worth it. He basically wins all combat challenges in All In for us!

---

Edit: Also, notably, due to the math involved, 1 Velvet AP is more valuable than 2 Follower AP. So if it's a choice between Cover Your Bases or giving those AP away to Smiles... it's more efficient to Cover Your Bases then give the resulting Velvet AP.

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for the FIRST Cover your bases, at least.

Basically we need to give him 4 Velvet+Mareinette actions per turn for 2 turns, and we're gold.

It's surprisingly viable, especially if the social velvet action counts too!

Hmmm, this is... slow. Not hard, not too expensive, but slow. Something like 4 Mareinette/Velvet actions + 2 Selene actions + 5 mortal actions + 4 turns gets us there, but that's really non-trivial.

Once Mareinette is befriended, she's pretty good at this, but we do want her actions for Heart lessons at least (and maybe Grail too, since Grail 5 will be there for the taking).

Solid use of low-lore Confidants, though... Filthy or Fluttercomet or [Mayor Mare/Cherrilee/Filthy Rich/etc.]

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It's 8 actions over (ideally) 2 turns. expensive, but not beyond reason.

As for Mareinette... Grail would probably be more important than Grail. They BOTH require 4 scraps for level up, but one is the reroll, the other is a SACRAMENT. Though yeah, both are nice.

 

[ses]

Torn Risen: 1
Rarity: 1
Jade Whistle: 1
Fluttershy/Comet: 1
Baldomare: 1 to become 2 on turn 23 if we do expedition immediately.
Mareinette: 2
Velvet Axe: 2
Biedde: 1
Smiles 1 (+ free expedition)
Cherenkolt: 1 to become 2 on turn 24 (if we do expedition immediately)
Selene: 3
Household servants: 1

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The earliest we can get a level 7 book is END of turn 23, Baldomare cannot have 2 actions until Turn 24. Cherry Coat similarly cannot have 2 actions till turn 25 (Forge 6 reagent obtained END of turn 23, purification into plutonium on turn 24. We saw from Axe that befriending doesn't kick in till end of turn, we dont get their second AP on the same turn).

Maybe if we're very very lucky Mareinette will consider our promising to take her Invitation at the end of this turn to be good enough to give 2 AP next turn, with the caveat that she will become an Enemy if we welch on the invitation. I highly doubt it, and in fact worry that there will be an "and one more small thing" after the Invitation itself. We dont know for sure the Invitation befriends her by itself, only that it is necessary to do so. I genuinely think there's a decent chance that beating Ruined Church 2 after taking the Invitation is the full requirements to Befriend her. The Ruined Church and Mareinette's mind are one and the same now after all as was explained during the [Moods of Mareinette] update. I'm expecting some kind of Psychonauts episode once we get past the first Heart hurdle.

As for Mareinette... Grail would probably be more important than Grail. They BOTH require 4 scraps for level up, but one is the reroll, the other is a SACRAMENT. Though yeah, both are nice.

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It only takes 3 Mareinette AP for Heart 4 because we haven't had a Heart Influence yet, and there are Grail scraps (and probably the Grail Heirloom) on offer by beating Ruined Church 2.

But yes I dont think people are appreciating how monstrously expensive Smiles' befriending is, even if it's straightforward. We're going to do it obviously, but it's NOT cheap.


It's something like 3 social actions on average to make a Confidante. So spending 7ish Mareinette/Velvet AP on Smiles plus some loose change is multiple moth sacraments worth of progress lost if we spent that AP on nothing but meeting new contacts and befriending Applejack/Mayor Mare/Cheerilee let alone all the other things we can do with Velvet AP. It's like twice as expensive as Personal Winter assuming reasonable bits/AP conversions. It's easily over twice as expensive as Personal Moth was.