Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Shaper47]

Reaches, not exceeds. Lantern 4 0/4 scraps is enough to trigger this doom clock unless the thread settles on actually doing our Moth sacrament.

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I'm kinda assuming we'll be getting our Moth Sacrament soonish.

 

[spiderhellian]

That's a cool update. Scientists tackling the Mansus is a very unique approach and I'm almost surprised there's no CS background like that.

Definitely makes me want to meet Midday Dew.

And even more so to get that Moth sacrament.

 

[AuthorTransient]

Hey you, you're finally awake. You were trying to cross the Ash Wastes, right? Walked right into the Wolf, same as us, and that Wolf cult over there.

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A NEW HOOF SEES THE GLORY!

I kid, I kid. It has been what, 8 turns since the board was set? 8 revolutions, 8 Lores. That's a pretty nice echo, though I doubt it was planned. Either way, we're in Velvet's endgame now. Time to get to work.

Here are a few questions for the thread:

1. Do we want to continue trying for our personal SH Sacrament, even with the risks involved?
   

   Ergo - one variation of Velvet is a cultist of the WOLF DIVIDED.

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2. Would it be better to decipher the Level 5 Knock Book to get that Knock scrap for the DoA's Sacrament, or to take a lesson from DoA?
3. Will we attempt to do the Forge's Redemption next turn?
4. Are we going to scout and attack Copper next turn before their cult can ramp up in power with the new summons?
5. Are we going to rush for Under the Royal Castle part 3?

 

[Cochimetl]

It's probably impossible, but still, it could be a solution to the problem to somehow tempt Celestia into focusing her own occult efforts on Forge.

 

[Nevermort]

Her sacrament isn't fixing her issues, that's healing the scar and confronting her past. It's hiding your issues behind a mask and letting one person know the truth with added eldritch overtones. Look if it's the only option fine, it's not the Grail sacraments, but I'd rather try to fix her issues first.

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People treat Velvet's Sacrament like it is something irrevocable for her mental issues, but it is not? Even if other ponies would not be able to help her, she herself can and more importantly other Lores can. There is 8 more Sacraments that would change her mental state for better or worse. You even mention healing the scar option and Moth sacrament does not prevent this action in any way.

And let's be honest. As long as she has her Regrets Velvet will believe herself to be irredeemable monster. Talking with other ponies won't help, as she does not talk about her Regrettable Actions to them. Dealing with Wolfs in long term may help, but Moth Sacrament does not affect it in any way. Hell, Biedde blade would cut away her regrets, have Velvet wear it all the time if the goal is to fix her issues. And we don't know exactly what Biddie Sacrament do and entails.

And if concern is about other pony in this equation, well it is still better option than say Winter Sacrament. Like imagine if one day Velvet approach Cheerilee for a talk about Silky. They talk about school life and Velvet admits to some of her fears. She asks if it makes her terrible mother. And Cheerilee , perhaps not exactly a stranger to such talks with other parents, says her that of course not, it is not the case here and Velvet doing her best. But would Velvet agree? Of course not. She doubles down, and tells Cheerilee about Royal Guards that she got killed, about some unsavory aspects of her work , about some truth that she kept from others. And Cheerilee is much less comfortable now, because surely some of it are state secrets that she is not supposed to know, but she does not see still. So there is only one option. To tell her everything. Tell her about cult. And tell her about Regrettable actions. And perhaps Cheerilee would never be able to sleep soundly in the aftermath. And perhaps knowing more than almost anyone else is exceedingly bad thing for her (Baldomare can attest). But for Velvet? The only difference is that before she had no one to talk about her terrible deeds. And now there is one pony she can talk to.

 

[Shaper47]

Do we want to continue trying for our personal SH Sacrament, even with the risks involved?

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We are the wolf cultist remember.

Would it be better to decipher the Level 5 Knock Book to get that Knock scrap for the DoA's Sacrament, or to take a lesson from DoA?

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Lesson given the reminder about our Moth Sacrament.

Will we attempt to do the Forge's Redemption next turn?

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Probably

Are we going to scout and attack Copper next turn before their cult can ramp up in power with the new summons?

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We have a bit more then a turn. Our son is opposing them for us afterall, especially Copper.

Should probably hit them either next turn or the one after though.

On the bright side free sacrifices.

 

[spiderhellian]

Do we want to continue trying for our personal SH Sacrament, even with the risks involved?

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I think we knew the risks involved (also in truth our Velvet is probably the Wolfiest of all possible Velvets, she's the one doing Regrettable Actions!)

I think the reason to do Baldomare's is man it seems easier. When we need 2 actions + a Baldomare + some luck to even have a shot at our own. And possibly another Baldomare action and some more luck down the road.

Would it be better to decipher the Level 5 Knock Book to get that Knock scrap for the DoA's Sacrament, or to take a lesson from DoA?

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I sorta want to keep a Level 5 book in reserve just in case for Baldomare. But that probably is silly. It depends if we think we'll want a Knock Influence from DoA for her Sacrament, I guess?

Will we attempt to do the Forge's Redemption next turn?

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Yes please I hate being constantly on death's door. I think it's like 4% failure with a Forge 3 reagent? I'd take those odds.

Are we going to scout and attack Copper next turn before their cult can ramp up in power with the new summons?

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Partial to this, at minimum scouting but a Biedde/Mareienette attack seems damn strong.

Are we going to rush for Under the Royal Castle part 3?

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I guess this could be our long expedition instead of Frangiclave, but eh Velvet isn't going this turn and she's very good on expeditions and should probably go on this. Dont really trust it to a DoA rush the way we did with the first two.

 

[Nate700]

[X] Retreat (you will safely retreat back to the Wake)

 

[AuthorTransient]

Partial to this, at minimum scouting but a Biedde/Mareienette attack seems damn strong.

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I'm going to caution against sending Mareinette, actually. In my opinion, us having Mareinette is less using her as a resource and more of a resource denial. She might just as well break off her binding while in the field to go hang out with a Grail cult - now imagine Copper having a Grail 6 Heart 6 Alukite and having absolutely no compunctions with feeding her everyday.

Now imagine Mareinette acting as Hannibal Lecter to Princess Celestia.

 

[Shaper47]

I'm going to caution against sending Mareinette, actually. In my opinion, us having Mareinette is less using her as a resource and more of a resource denial. She might just as well break off her binding while in the field to go hang out with a Grail cult - now imagine Copper having a Grail 6 Heart 6 Alukite and having absolutely no compunctions with feeding her everyday.

Now imagine Mareinette acting as Hannibal Lecter to Princess Celestia.

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Sounds a bit fear mongery to me.

 

[Venerable Ro]

My name is Midday Dew, and my entire life I have considered myself a pony of science.
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Ah, sweet vindication. Did I not predict all of this?

Well then we must put the plan into action, no? "Discover" the lores and "climb" the Mansus, recording our exploits as we go, so that we are what we appear to be and appear to be what we are. Namely a particularly gifted pony and yet another of Equestria's singularly Talented individuals here at a pivotal moment in time to change the course of history.

It's an idea that is practically Branded on the nation's cultural subconscious after all.

However, if Princess Celestia's Lantern ever reaches your Moth level, she will discover your connection to the Lores. And that creates a very high likelihood (depending on narrative circumstances) of her initiating combat with you. Which, statistically, will lead to your death, or a game over.

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Can't discover something that you've already been told, and the sweetest lies are the truthful ones. Of course we really should avoid lying to the Sun Pony, so it would be infinitely preferable for Luna and Cadence to hurry up with their own plans, but I digress. "Depending on narrative circumstances" is a significant caveat, I don't say this to downplay the danger, but rather as a reminder that the narrative is flexible and we have an immense influence on it if we lean on it hard enough.

In any case, we do not have until Celestia reaches Lantern equal to our Moth, we have until she or Midday passes the Branded Door and then has a meeting with us.

 

[Solace2117]

1. Do we want to continue trying for our personal SH Sacrament, even with the risks involved?
2. Would it be better to decipher the Level 5 Knock Book to get that Knock scrap for the DoA's Sacrament, or to take a lesson from DoA?
3. Will we attempt to do the Forge's Redemption next turn?
4. Are we going to scout and attack Copper next turn before their cult can ramp up in power with the new summons?
5. Are we going to rush for Under the Royal Castle part 3?

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1. Personally yes, there's always risk and I prefer her personal Sacrament.
2. This would make sense if we're already studying the artifact.
3. I think we should, but we'll see what people prioritize.
4. Even if we don't attack, we probably need to scout her and Windy.
5. Doubtful, there's other things to focus on first.

People treat Velvet's Sacrament like it is something irrevocable for her mental issues, but it is not? Even if other ponies would not be able to help her, she herself can and more importantly other Lores can. There is 8 more Sacraments that would change her mental state for better or worse. You even mention healing the scar option and Moth sacrament does not prevent this action in any way.

And let's be honest. As long as she has her Regrets Velvet will believe herself to be irredeemable monster. Talking with other ponies won't help, as she does not talk about her Regrettable Actions to them. Dealing with Wolfs in long term may help, but Moth Sacrament does not affect it in any way. Hell, Biedde blade would cut away her regrets, have Velvet wear it all the time if the goal is to fix her issues. And we don't know exactly what Biddie Sacrament do and entails.

And if concern is about other pony in this equation, well it is still better option than say Winter Sacrament. Like imagine if one day Velvet approach Cheerilee for a talk about Silky. They talk about school life and Velvet admits to some of her fears. She asks if it makes her terrible mother. And Cheerilee , perhaps not exactly a stranger to such talks with other parents, says her that of course not, it is not the case here and Velvet doing her best. But would Velvet agree? Of course not. She doubles down, and tells Cheerilee about Royal Guards that she got killed, about some unsavory aspects of her work , about some truth that she kept from others. And Cheerilee is much less comfortable now, because surely some of it are state secrets that she is not supposed to know, but she does not see still. So there is only one option. To tell her everything. Tell her about cult. And tell her about Regrettable actions. And perhaps Cheerilee would never be able to sleep soundly in the aftermath. And perhaps knowing more than almost anyone else is exceedingly bad thing for her (Baldomare can attest). But for Velvet? The only difference is that before she had no one to talk about her terrible deeds. And now there is one pony she can talk to.

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I was responding to the idea that our Moth Sacrament was a solution to Velvet's issues. The way it's phrased it's more her donning masks to hide them. I'm arguing to heal her scar to help her come to terms with her past and maybe change it. If that doesn't work, oh well. Also Sacraments are how you fundamentally understand the world. I doubt you can just go back once you commit, in the same way having Mareinette heal the scar means those memories are just cut away and forgotten. If we heal the scar after it's just as likely that Velvet may come to terms with her past, but she's already engraved that aspect of herself in her knowledge of Moth. I think you underestimate what that means.

 

[Nevermort]

In any case, we do not have until Celestia reaches Lantern equal to our Moth, we have until she or Midday passes the Branded Door and then has a meeting with us.

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We are given explicit statement on what will trigger Celestia. Unless QM states later that he forgot about Brand I would assume that Velvet can use her Moth to mask Brand from Celestia.

I'm going to caution against sending Mareinette, actually. In my opinion, us having Mareinette is less using her as a resource and more of a resource denial. She might just as well break off her binding while in the field to go hang out with a Grail cult - now imagine Copper having a Grail 6 Heart 6 Alukite and having absolutely no compunctions with feeding her everyday.

Now imagine Mareinette acting as Hannibal Lecter to Princess Celestia.

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But on the other hoof Heart Name is supposed to have advantage against Winter Name, while Edge Name would be at disadvantage (if we go by which Lore subverts which). And Assault Rival being a short expedition I propose we send all or almost all our Names (after looking how many bits we have overall) so Mareinette does not risk trying anything funny.

I was responding to the idea that our Moth Sacrament was a solution to Velvet's issues. The way it's phrased it's more her donning masks to hide them. I'm arguing to heal her scar to help her come to terms with her past and maybe change it. If that doesn't work, oh well. Also Sacraments are how you fundamentally understand the world. I doubt you can just go back once you commit, in the same way having Mareinette heal the scar means those memories are just cut away and forgotten. If we heal the scar after it's just as likely that Velvet may come to terms with her past, but she's already engraved that aspect of herself in her knowledge of Moth. I think you underestimate what that means.

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I mean at the very least there are other Sacraments that would affect Velvet to equal degree. Like Winter making her more indifferent toward death (or at least understanding and perhaps accepting its place in the world if we keep close to the text given).

I don't think that Moth Sacrament is solution to Velvet problem, but I also don't think that it is in any considerable way an obstacle on the way to solving it. Does not matter if we do it before or after healing the scar, result is the same unless it really affects Velvet's Moth Sacrament option. And we planned to heal scar next turn even before we got indication that our race with Celestia started. Although it is horror story and there is always possibility that it change to the worse

 

[Greymere]

So how 'bout that Moth Sacrament, huh?

Considering that the ball has started rolling, we really do need to introduce the Bureau to the Lores, since Eclipse doesn't seem inclined to share. And since Copper (and Windy) have suddenly become significantly more dangerous with the knowledge of Ash-Ghouls, why not kill two birds with one stone and set the Bureau on Copper? After we raid her HQ for any incriminating evidence on us of course.

@OurLadyOfWires how does siccing the Bureau on one of our enemies work narratively? Like, if right now we pointed them at Copper, would Velvet try and spin it as a suspected link to the changelings or something?

 

[Shaper47]

Considering that the ball has started rolling, we really do need to introduce the Bureau to the Lores

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I suppose if we make them loyal to us above all that's ok.

since Eclipse doesn't seem inclined to share

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We should get Cadence to shake them down for us.

And since Copper (and Windy) have suddenly become significantly more dangerous with the knowledge of Ash-Ghouls

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They don't have the knowledge yet.

Also I think your overestimating how easy it is to get to the Hunting Grounds. Ash is a dangerous place and most ponies are probably going to be heading straight towards the beacon.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Also I think your overestimating how easy it is to get to the Hunting Grounds. Ash is a dangerous place and most ponies are probably going to be heading straight towards the beacon.

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Indeed the [Stalking] Ash will disincentivize casual exploration quite handily, there really isn't any indication or intuitive presumption of value to be had in this wasteland.

I had a fun thought actually, (well I've had a multitude of fun thoughts) they'll meet up with Baldomare in her lodge in due time and naturally get her summoning requirements at that point. If they try it (and if they've managed to figure out ritual circles considering they're having to learn all of this absolutely cold) they'll learn that she's already summoned and present in the Wake.

Wouldn't that put the fox amongst the chickens?

We can certainly consider the possibility an extra motivation to keep her summoned, Celestia summoning Baldomare would be, bad.

Speaking of summons, imagine if they manage to find the Lionsmith's Name, everyone would be unhappy about that one!

 

[Greymere]

Okay, so. Since our priorities for the near future should be relatively set, unless Bird decides to throw another curveball at us (don't jinx it don't jinx it) I thought I'd post a preliminary plan outline and see what people's opinions are on what we should and shouldn't be focusing on next turn.

Bureau + Other Stuff

Wound -> Roll 1 die and take medicine (-30 bits)
Detectives -> Investigate Copper
Constables -> Raid the proto-hive
Commissioner -> Get our hooves dirty

Wound is being treated w/ medicine, mostly because I want Mareinette to spend her AP putting us within arm's reach of our current Moth Sacrament if it doesn't change after healing our scar (which, I doubt it will).

Constables action is fairly obvious, we need to follow up on the proto-hive to do our Official Job. Detectives on investigating Copper, because boy, if Celestia and Eclipse are getting into the Lores, we really need to get the Lores into the Bureau so we can obfuscate when exactly we started learning. And I think the only way that's happening is if the Bureau independently finds Lore stuff. Copper runs a cult that, besides our house, is (presumably) the greatest concentration of recorded Lore knowledge and adepts right now. Plus, with the Ash-Ghouls as an available summon, we probably want to find some way to deal with her before she can start sacrificing ponies to summon Edge 7/Winter 7 murdermonsters. Our personal commissioner action on helping out, even despite our Wound, because 1) the constables failing their first true attack on the changelings would look really bad for us (and they can serve as meatshields for our health bar anyway), and 2) Copper is either Grail 4 or Grail 5, and has a cult full of lower-level adepts. It'll be a bit difficult for mundane detectives to find her in the timeframe we're going to want, so let's just cheat and help out ourselves!

Followers

Rarity -> Work focus
Jade -> MoL ritual
DoA -> Knock lesson
Mareinette -> Cherilee social
A Grave on a Hill expedition
Assault Copper to destroy any incriminating evidence that could link us to the cult/pre-laundering Lores
RotT to find a permanent, nonsuspicious ritual site for three circles
Cover our bases (x1)

Rarity on work, to make sure she doesn't burn out from doing too many commissions in a row, even if we could do one next turn (but we would have to focus work T21 anyway, so). Jade on the MoL ritual, so we can clear it out of our backlog and on the off chance it could be helpful for dealing with Daybreaker. DoA on Knock lesson to bring us up to 4/4, so we can start working on her Sacrament and therefore acquiring Frangiclave and our first permanent Name. Mareinette on Cherilee social, to prepare for our Moth Sacrament if it doesn't change (and again, I don't think it will), considering that out of the three people at "Friend", she's the one with both pretty minimal narrative presence already and has the least apparent use case (Filthy Rich might give us a new avenue for more bits, Applejack is an Element of Harmony which... might be important?). Grave on the Hill to go get Baldomare's book. Outsider search to start on opening the Tricuspid.

RotT on finding a ritual site, because next turn will be the last that we will have access to a nonsuspicious location that can support three-circle rituals. It'll probably be an expedition or something, but that's fine tbh. Expeditions have loot, and having somewhere where we can do summonings is important. Plus, Jade won't do rituals in her old house, which is our only option for two-circle rituals, so we really need a new site so that Jade can still do rituals for us. As much as I want to scout BtRC Part 3, proper ritual infrastructure is more important. You know, so that our faction can actually use any shiny, high level artifacts that we might find.

And finally, assaulting Copper to destroy anything that could incriminate us when we get the Bureau involved. This... may also involve killing Copper? She is a Grail 4 or 5 adept, which makes her supernaturally persuasive, so we don't necessarily want her where she can snitch on us being a former coworker. And since what we want from raiding the cult is Lore knowledge, not to put Copper in jail, then that's honestly fine w/ me, tbh. Not listed here, but I think the best team to send would be Biedde (who's likely to end up the leader), Baldomare, and DoA. It'd be a bit pricy, but they would also be very, very good at the thing we're sending them out to do. Baldomare to find the evidence and snitches, DoA for her specialty bonus and ability to bust through locks and wards willynilly, and Biedde for his Mothiness and sheer combat ability, in case of Windigos, Ash-Ghouls, Neighnia, or other threats.

Velvet

AotL -> Lantern
Reagent -> Forge 3
Mansus -> Ashen Wastes
Social -> Rarity level up
1) Spot reserved for likely Cadance/Shining Armor related Fleeting Opportunity
2) Forge's Redemption
3) Study Lantern 4 + Knock 2 artifacts
4 + 5) DoA Sacrament

Not much to say here. Study the artifacts so our followers can have better virtual Lore levels (and also get us closer to being able to get Lantern Sacrament). Do FR so we can stop being made of glass. Level up Rarity so she can bring in even more bits. And we all know now why doing the DoA's Knock Sacrament ASAP is important. I reserved an AP slot with the assumption that Bird's might give us an option to initiate Cadance and Shining into the Lores, but we'll see. If he doesn't, we can throw that slot at a third try at DoA's Sacrament.

Also, while I have our social as leveling up Rarity here, I would be ameanable to have our social be Cherilee instead, for Moth Sacrament purposes, and have Mareinette go do something else in the Follower Phase.

On a side note, considering our recent expedition haul, I am feeling much more partial to Baldomare's Lantern Sacrament, since it'll apparently give us the ability to understand every language (except Vak, because Vak is dead). And considering the penalties from books being from different Eras, and the fact that high-level books are likely to almost universally require some amount of deciphering... yeah, I want the Sacrament that will probably get rid of those penalties and make leveling up our other Lores much easier.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Okay, so. Since our priorities for the near future should be relatively set, unless Bird decides to throw another curveball at us (don't jinx it don't jinx it) I thought I'd post a preliminary plan outline and see what people's opinions are on what we should and shouldn't be focusing on next turn.

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I like the overall thoughts, but I disagree on using Cheerilee specifically for two reasons.

Firstly, she's very clearly (to my eyes anyway) Heart in her primary Lore and that's something we're rather missing in our group since Mareinette's time is a bit too valuable to be spending it on petty lore actions. Admittedly Heart isn't a lore we've bothered to investigate, but that doesn't mean it'd be pointless to find out.

Secondly, she's our daughter's teacher, and we know she's quite devoted to her charges. Is it really a good idea to pull the Moth-madness "nobody else can ever know" eldritch mask shenanigans on the pony with almost daily contact with our daughter and an ethical/moral obligation to ensure her safety?

Other than that, I'd suggest scouting Copper's cult and making an effort to falsify a link between her and the Changelings, perhaps suggest a two-way pony-trafficking ring or what have you. Thus when we raid the Hive we "discover" a link to their "suppliers".

 

[Shaper47]

Ok plan, I agree on follow action but not personal. We have Sacraments we can get right now.

Followers

Rarity -> Work focus
Jade -> MoL ritual
DoA -> Knock lesson
Mareinette -> Cherilee social
A Grave on a Hill expedition
Assault Copper to destroy any incriminating evidence that could link us to the cult/pre-laundering Lores
RotT to find a permanent, nonsuspicious ritual site for three circles
Cover our bases (x1)


Velvet

AotL -> Lantern
Reagent -> Forge 3
Mansus -> Edge Sacrament
Social -> Rarity level up
1) DoA Sacrament
2) Forge's Redemption
3) Study Lantern 4 + Knock 2 artifacts
4 + 5) SH Sacrament

 

[DelightedOne]

Okay, just woke up and saw the bad news. Moth Sacrament just shot up in the priority list so it is either heal the scar and it changes or just get over the bad feelings and do it if it doesn't.

Introducing the lores to the Bureau also became more important, together with making them more loyal to us. That means we need to finish part 3 fast.

Hubris, sheer hubris.

Like maybe that might work if we're fillying her, but no, Celestia is not the sort of mare to take that kind of betrayal well.

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Not hubris, hope. There is a difference.

Borderline Daybreaker Celestia isn't, but saved Celestia that sees Velvet with Confidante Luna and Cadence, with Velvet having been the one to save and restore Luna and helping her defeat Daybreaker would be willing to forgive us, besides our Above All Suspicion trait will play a part in making sure she sees us in a good way.

Their is explicitly a GM confirmed doom clock on Celestia. Don't thing you fancy plans and high ideals will save you when the time comes. The options are reach the Glory or die.

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There is a doom clock on Daybreaker influenced Celestia, regular Celestia will be much more kind(that is one of her Elements). The "fancy plans and high ideas" already saved us plenty of times and are exactly what will make us win again.

The options are more heal Celestia, then try to reach Glory or die. No one wants to try stealing from an Alicorn who can go full evil any moment that trusts us.

 

[AuthorTransient]

Here's my tentative plan for next turn. Call it Gambling the Needle.

Followers:

Follower	Action(s)	'Free' Action
Comet Feet	Leader to Expedition: Grave on the Hill	⨂
Rarity	Cover Your Bases (this will make her attempt a Career Roll)	Expedition: Grave on the Hill
Baldomare	Scry / Scout Copper	Expedition: Grave on the Hill
Biedde	Attack Copper	Guard
Mareinette	Heart Influence	⨂
Daughter-of-Axes	Knock Lesson	⨂
Selene	Winter Skill, Cover Your Bases	Random training action
Jade Whistle	Memory of Light	⨂

Velvet:

Personal Actions (Base 4 + 1)	Social (1 Free)	Mansus (1 Free)
Introduce Cadance to the Lores The Forge's Redemption Personal SH Sacrament Personal SH Sacrament Accompany the Lunar Bureau to the proto-hive of Tall Tale to plant: (A) - Mansus Exploration and (B) - the Forge's Redemption	Fair Trial or Midday Dew	Ruined Church Expedition The Shattered Stairways

EDIT: I'm flexible on the Sacraments, the Social, and the Mansus - though I do want to get a Sacrament by end of* T20.

EDIT 2: Forgot about Bureau actions but I already deleted all my tabs :/.

 

[Greymere]

I like the overall thoughts, but I disagree on using Cheerilee specifically for two reasons.

Firstly, she's very clearly (to my eyes anyway) Heart in her primary Lore and that's something we're rather missing in our group since Mareinette's time is a bit too valuable to be spending it on petty lore actions. Admittedly Heart isn't a lore we've bothered to investigate, but that doesn't mean it'd be pointless to find out.

Secondly, she's our daughter's teacher, and we know she's quite devoted to her charges. Is it really a good idea to pull the Moth-madness "nobody else can ever know" eldritch mask shenanigans on the pony with almost daily contact with our daughter and an ethical/moral obligation to ensure her safety?

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The thing is, Cherilee as a Heart Confidant (if she is indeed Heart) would have the exact same issues we were having with Fluttershy. Which is to say, Heart and Winter are ultimately defensive, reactive Lores, and most things that we'd be asking our Followers to do just aren't going to involve them. Heart is a bit better off because IotH is a Heart major ritual, but if we're acquiring enough Dread/Fascination/etc. to the point we need a Follower separate from Mareinette to balance it out... I feel like we have bigger problems than the lack of a Heart Confidant?

Also, just to point out, Jade does have some Heart, so it's not like it's entirely lacking from our faction either.

Now, if Cherilee turns out to be Secret Histories major... we're keeping her. Holy shit would a SH Confidant be useful.

But anyway, I also picked Cherilee because she was the one people seemed most likely to go for. Quite a few players are attached to the idea of using Flilthy to get more bits and/or trying to loop the rest of the Elements into our circle, which by process of elimination leaves... well. Cherilee.

I mean I suppose there is the option of socialling up Mayor Mare or finding a new contact entirely. Or, I suppose we might be able to social Spoiled Rich, as some have suggested. She's not on our contact list right now, but Velvet is presumably aware she exists, so it shouldn't be too meta-y to write in a social action with her? ...I don't know if Mareinette can initiate a contact though (@OurLadyOfWires?), so if we went after Spoiled, we might have to start the contact with our free action and then Mareinette can take it from there.

Other than that, I'd suggest scouting Copper's cult and making an effort to falsify a link between her and the Changelings, perhaps suggest a two-way pony-trafficking ring or what have you. Thus when we raid the Hive we "discover" a link to their "suppliers".

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Do we actually want to falsify a link though? Like, even if Velvet starts the investigation on Copper under the narrative that it might be linked to the changelings, if the Bureau later finds out that it's not related to the changelings and is in fact actually a murderous cult-slash-gang capable of calling forth Windigos... I don't think they're going to go "welp not our problem"? That kind of thing seems like a threat to the kingdom to me

(Edit: Plus, the Bureau already has an option to go after crimes at large, so a murderous cult is still well within our purview, I'd say)

We have Sacraments we can get right now.

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It's a matter of priorities. SH can wait, but we need to get the Frangiclave by the end of T21 if we don't want to have to resummon DoA. The SH Sacrament, as interesting as it is, is fundamentally not actually urgent like the Knock Sacrament now is. (This also applies to my opinion on your plan @AuthorTransient)

Edit 2: Also btw @AuthorTransient, you seem to be missing the Bureau actions from your outline? Just thought I'd mention it since you have accompanying the Constables and a Fair Trial/Midday Dew social being taken out of Velvet's AP when we should be able to do one of those w/ our Commissioner action.

 

[Venerable Ro]

...I don't know if Mareinette can initiate a contact though, so if we went after Spoiled, we might have to start the contact with our free action and then Mareinette can take it from there.

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Mareinette has the ability to act in our stead in social activities, and can also improvise according to her own best judgement and what she believes we're trying to do. We're scheduled to meet with her anyway to renew her bindings, there's a decent chance she'll be pretty happy with us and inclined to make good choices as it were. Therefore, "I need a pony suitable for this Sacrament of mine, someone otherwise useless and who will not cause problems" will be a good direction for her and will make for a good project.

Do we actually want to falsify a link though? Like, even if Velvet starts the investigation on Copper under the narrative that it might be linked to the changelings, if the Bureau later finds out that it's not related to the changelings and is in fact actually a murderous cult-slash-gang capable of calling forth Windigos... I don't think they're going to go "welp not our problem"? That kind of thing seems like a threat to the kingdom to me

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I'm thinking more along the lines of "We need to look into this organization lead by one Copper Secateur, I think they're an evil cult!"

"Alright, but how did you find out about them?"

"A dappled Moth told me?"

We need a lead to lead us to copper that doesn't rely on Velvet knowing things she shouldn't.

 

[Greymere]

I'm thinking more along the lines of "We need to look into this organization lead by one Copper Secateur, I think they're an evil cult!"

"Alright, but how did you find out about them?"

"A dappled Moth told me?"

We need a lead to lead us to copper that doesn't rely on Velvet knowing things she shouldn't.

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Ahhh I understand now. This is why I'm asking Bird how pointing the Bureau at Copper would work narratively

But if I had to come up with something off the top of my head, maybe Velvet would point the detectives toward missing persons in Manehattan, under the narrative that this might be another place to pick up a new trail for the changelings, but kind of... nudge things around so that they end up picking up Copper's trail? I'm not really sure, hence why I'm asking Bird. That being said, part of why I want Velvet to get directly involved next turn is because she'd probably have an easier time directing the Bureau towards her true target if she's actively involved in the investigation.

Edit:

Introducing the lores to the Bureau also became more important, together with making them more loyal to us. That means we need to finish part 3 fast.

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I assume since you mentioned this, you want to introduce the Lores to the Bureau by planting evidence in the Canterlot expedition rather than raiding Copper's cult?

 

[Nevermort]

Mareinette has the ability to act in our stead in social activities, and can also improvise according to her own best judgement and what she believes we're trying to do. We're scheduled to meet with her anyway to renew her bindings, there's a decent chance she'll be pretty happy with us and inclined to make good choices as it were. Therefore, "I need a pony suitable for this Sacrament of mine, someone otherwise useless and who will not cause problems" will be a good direction for her and will make for a good project.

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Mareinette, find me pony psychologist with whom I can share all my terrible problems . Including issue of befriending ponies via giant skeleton horse of course.

 

[Shaper47]

Introduce Cadance to the Lores

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Given what we know that seems really really risky.

What happens when Celestia notices? Hmm.

It's a matter of priorities. SH can wait, but we need to get the Frangiclave by the end of T21 if we don't want to have to resummon DoA. The SH Sacrament, as interesting as it is, is fundamentally not actually urgent like the Knock Sacrament now is

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It's been not a priority for far too long, we can't just keep putting it off.

As for the Knock Sacrament, I've got one AP on trying it out because I want some more details first. It could be best done with a Knock influence afterall and given the danger warning signs I'd prefer Velvet to be at three health first if it's got more then one AP scheduled in a turn.

 

[Greymere]

Introducing the lores to the Bureau also became more important, together with making them more loyal to us. That means we need to finish part 3 fast.

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Hmm...

I guess if I were to make a variant that assumes we're going to plant Lore knowledge in the Canterlot expedition, I'd free up Mareinette's AP to go scout it manually, and then we could social Cherilee/social Spoiled Rich/find a new contact with our personal social action and leave Rarity's level up until next turn? Then switch the detectives action to researching foreign threats, since if we wouldn't be siccing the Bureau on Copper it'd be better to adjust the goal of the assault to killing Copper or otherwise making sure she's no longer a threat to us.

 

[DelightedOne]

I assume since you mentioned this, you want to introduce the Lores to the Bureau by planting evidence in the Canterlot expedition rather than raiding Copper's cult?

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Yep, I already stated a few times the need to keep the lores being a more positive power(or at least neutral)to ponies, make it seem more like magic in the sense that everypony knows it is dangerous but useful and can be used for good or evil.

Midday Dew discovering the lores and enlightening Celestia helps with that(I wish we remained the Learning advisor, I want his job so bad)but making it something that was hidden under their muzzles all this time is an opportunity too good to not take.

There is also that diary we think belongs to Star Swirl if it really is and we put it back, have the Bureau take it, report to Celestia our findings she will have another positive association with the lores.

We also could leave hints of the first circle someway if it is possible, that would help speed up occult development. But nothing is set in stone yet, we might not even need to launder the lores if Selene finds a way to deal with Daybreaker soon.I'm delusional

The fact we would send regular mortals to fight a Cult with a Name without them knowing a single hint of lore is also worrying, so part 3 really feels like the best option for introducing the lores to the Bureau.

Edit: I forgot about our fucking Manuscripts, we need to get those back too and if we send the Bureau to raid Copper's Cult we might not be able to take them back.

 

[Greymere]

Yep, I already stated a few times the need to keep the lores being a more positive power(or at least neutral)to ponies, make it seem more like magic in the sense that everypony knows it is dangerous but useful and can be used for good or evil.

Midday Dew discovering the lores and enlightening Celestia helps with that(I wish we remained the Learning advisor, I want his job so bad)but making it something that was hidden under their muzzles all this time is an opportunity too good to not take.

There is also that diary we think belongs to Star Swirl if it really is and we put it back, have the Bureau take it, report to Celestia our findings she will have another positive association with the lores.

We also could leave hints of the first circle someway if it is possible, that would help speed up occult development. But nothing is set in stone yet, we might not even need to launder the lores if Selene finds a way to deal with Daybreaker soon.I'm delusional

The fact we would send regular mortals to fight a Cult with a Name without them knowing a single hint of lore is also worrying, so part 3 really feels like the best option for introducing the lores to the Bureau.

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Yeah that's understandable. Plus if we're planting evidence in the Canterlot expedition we don't have to worry about the narrative effects of how to get the Bureau to look at Copper.

Though if we switch to just assassinating Copper, we're probably also going to want to take out Neighnia or negotiate some sort of contract with her to "steal" her from the cult. Or, actually, maybe we can have Biedde/Mareinette threaten the bindings off of Copper before the assault squad kills her then hand it over to us once they get back?

 

[Pittauro]

But we are all scientists. Celestia gathered us because we are rational ponies. So, we acted the part. We treated this like a disease, and we analyzed its spread with me as its "patient zero".

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admirable.

But Princess Celestia quickly dispelled those theories. Or, if nothing else, she directed us to work based on the assumption that the Royal Sister is alive.

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mh... if we ever wanted to introduce Luna to Celestia indirectly, to prove she's alive... we might want to use Midday Dew's dreams...

We just want the nightmares to end.

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ironically, reaching the mansus is a way to end the nightmares... or did Velvet only stop to dream when she got the Knock Realization? I don't remember.

Until we realized that his office was the closest one to… that place. To the mirror. And that he was passed out in his office, sleeping from exhaustion as we all had been doing, while we were exposing the changeling creature to the mirror itself.

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... Lantern method of having the Dream, by chance?

And also, that is another reason to keep Inky Hoofs around. Because as much as he might try to deny it, he is a scholar like us. And the loss of his presence in our group would be a loss to Equestria as a whole.

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the name is familiar... I'm probably imagining it though.

But still, in spite of their fear… or perhaps because of their fear, they carry on.

Because somepony needs to fight against the wolves that gnaw at the bones of civilization.

Somepony needs to push ponykind forward, lest the things that are stalking all of them finally catch up.

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seriously admirable, and about as good of a reaction as any could have to... well, our third regrettable action.

Soon after, a dose of something is administered on the sleeping pony's neck.

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mh... I'm reminded of how, in CS, you can buy "a tincture of Opium" to gain Contentment, to counter Dread...

"Yes, yes… I… I haven't reached the end of the maze, but I made good progress. I got a better look at the beacon, and… and I think that… I think it has a name. Because when I saw it, I could only think of-"

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...THE MAZE?



...It CAN'T be already in the Shattered Stairways, can it?!

That would imply having passed through the Branding Door, which also means that if we ever meet this pony we're fucked.

And as expected, Midday Dew looks down at a familiar word… the same word that everypony else had in their mind, when they reached far enough in the stepping-stone maze. The same word he couldn't stop thinking of, when he himself got a better look at the beacon.

GLORY.

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...They're in the Mansus.

Or, at the very least, at the Crossroads leading to the Mansus.

THAT is a problem...

"Very well. Continue with your report."
"Yes, yes… I… I can confirm there is a structure, under the beacon. I can confirm that… no, I think there is a part of the structure that touches the ground level. But also…"
"Also…?"
"The farther I made it in the stepping-stone maze, the more I got this… this feeling… There is something under the beacon. There is something under that structure… something familiar."
"…"
"Something that reminds me of my… of our nightmares."
"… I understand. That is enough for now. You have the next six hours free, and you need to have your therapy session during that time. Everypony else, let's reconvene at the lab in two hours. I think we all want do go over our own notes before we present them to each other."

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Ok, so they're approaching the Ashen Wastes, but are not quite there yet. Or at least this one isn't.

However, if Princess Celestia's Lantern ever reaches your Moth level, she will discover your connection to the Lores. And that creates a very high likelihood (depending on narrative circumstances) of her initiating combat with you. Which, statistically, will lead to your death, or a game over.

So, you have been allowed to see this.
Princess Celestia has reached LANTERN 0.

You will discover that eventually, as you will inevitably meet her in person to report on the changelings at some point.

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...ok, that's a problem.

I think we can safely assume that, even in the very most optimistic case, she can't advance faster than one level per turn. And realistically I think that's fairly unlikely, especially at the highest levels.

Still, we now have a countdown. We might want to have Mareinette (or Velvet) get us a new Confidant, just in case we NEED to bring up Moth to buy more time.

4 turns in the super-worst-case scenario, very likely more than that.

There's also the OTHER way we could be discovered. Namely, if someone passes through the Branding Door, they'll be able to recognize our Brand.

We need either to find a way to narratively justify Velvet's high lores (extremely hard to do, we just don't have the time to justify that growth. MAYBE if we introduced the lores to the Bureau through the changelings AND made a big show of Velvet studying them? But that only works if we get, and I'm being generous, at least 4 or 5 turns between the "earliest point Velvet can fake being studying the lores" and "Celestia reaches Lantern 4/someone reaches Branding Door and meets with Velvet".

So they're using the Watchpony's Glass to bypass our son.

We could probably set them back if we steal the Watchpony's Glass.

Or we could just kill them all. Being able to summon an Ash-Ghoul makes it pretty easy.

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do you really have to be like that all the time?!

Always pushing for the cruelest options... Wolf, Ash-Ghouls, killing them all...

that said, stealing the Watchpony's glass... could in theory be an option, but the problem is that I expect Celestia to nearly always be there, guarding it. Which would make this a near-impossible expedition.

I'm not sure even sending ALL of the Names together would be enough. Not subtly. We'd have to do a big attack, with Biedde basically keeping Celestia busy in open combat while everyone else moves away the Mirror...

Probably not feasible, and even if it was we'd have to cause untold amounts of destruction.

Nah, if anything I'm taking this as a "we need to get the Outsider AND train up Selene faster, so we might either reach Glory earlier OR deal with Daybreaker before she finds out about us".

also prepare a confidant to bring up Moth to 5 and buy us more time if we need to.

Concerning. I think this prioritizes healing Velvet's scar on the off chance it changes her Moth sacrament. We need to do it anyways. It doesn't necessarily make Moth our top priority, Celestia isn't the only thing we need to worry about, but it does increase the urgency of it and the Manse in general. Or at least it reaffirms it.

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can you imagine if it somehow changed it, but with something even HARDER to achieve?!

in any case sure, it's a very small chance but we were going to heal the scar anyway so I see no problem with it. We still had to do it to get Edge 5 from Biedde anyway.

unless the sacrament somehow changes in the next two turns though we'll probably have to send Mareinette or Velvet to make us a new confidant/minion though.

One question: Why does everyone hate the Moth Sacrament so much when we have Mareinette? Just make a friendship with Spoiled Milk.

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That's kind of my first pick if we're going for it, either that or just tell Mareinette to "turn someone we'd dislike (ideally a criminal even) into our confidant/minion".

It's just... well, it's kind of explicitly a fairly cruel sacrament. We're not killing them, but we're basically taking what they think is a cherished bond, and at minionhood tier basically the ONE constant in their life, and destroying it.

and the QM mentioned that if done with the help of the Grail Leash to bring up a confidant to minion it's even crueler.

So, yeah, we'll do it if we have to. and depending on how quickly Celestia goes up in Lantern we probably WILL have to, and we should start preparations by having either Velvet or Mareinette work on it...

but it's not something we'd like to do.

It's the mindset thing.

Which really if they thought it was such a problem they should have just got a Sacrament from the Master. Glory knows I made plans for it.

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we didn't exactly plan to kill them you know. And reaching Moth 4 4/4 0/1 is not exactly easy.

This isn't a toxic mindset though? If you hate a part of yourself, change it!

It's sticking in the same mentality despite it causing you issues or suffering that's toxic. Any decent therapist will tell you that your only choices are to accept the (external or internal) situation you're currently in or change yourself so you can leave it.

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It's not quite toxic on Velvet, or at least it doesn't have to be. but remember the other part of it, the COST.

MOTH
Actions of your own: "You have never really liked yourself. That is an ugly truth you have always denied, and that you attempted to bury underneath the love that others feel for you. But perhaps, and only perhaps, it is time to embrace that, and learn to be somepony else."
-Pick a single character with whom you have a "Confidant-level" relationship or higher. That character will be permanently locked as an "acquaintance". For somepony must realize that you have donned a mask, for it to truly exist.
-You must reach 4/4 scraps of Moth before taking this action.

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That's, simply put, concerning.

Also, you know, Velvet has plenty of people who loves her for who she is.

and, again, we've been told that using the Leash for this is particularly cruel, which makes things a fair bit worse.

But yeah, it's becoming more necessary now.

Her sacrament isn't fixing her issues, that's healing the scar and confronting her past. It's hiding your issues behind a mask and letting one person know the truth with added eldritch overtones. Look if it's the only option fine, it's not the Grail sacraments, but I'd rather try to fix her issues first.

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basically this.

At this point I want to at least TRY removing the scar and see what happens (as we were probably going to do it anyway next turn), but yeah, if we have to we have to, and we should start preparations now. We'll probably want to put Mareinette on minion-making duty next turn.

Their is explicitly a GM confirmed doom clock on Celestia. Don't thing you fancy plans and high ideals will save you when the time comes. The options are reach the Glory or die.

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Not even reaching Glory is NECESSARILY enough, you know.

I mean, it IS if we become an Hour in the process. If we just become a Long, I'd expect Celestia to still easily be able to kill us for it.

Is there even a precedent for an "Hour" to continue living a life in the Wake after ascending? Because I don't think Velvet would want to leave her family...

That's a cool update. Scientists tackling the Mansus is a very unique approach and I'm almost surprised there's no CS background like that.

Definitely makes me want to meet Midday Dew.

And even more so to get that Moth sacrament.

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If CS was brought to the 2000s I could easily imagine it happening. I imagine the Suppression Bureau stopped that for the most part while still active, though I think it was mentioned somewhere it was nearly shut down in the 60s?

Here are a few questions for the thread:

1. Do we want to continue trying for our personal SH Sacrament, even with the risks involved?
2. Would it be better to decipher the Level 5 Knock Book to get that Knock scrap for the DoA's Sacrament, or to take a lesson from DoA?
3. Will we attempt to do the Forge's Redemption next turn?
4. Are we going to scout and attack Copper next turn before their cult can ramp up in power with the new summons?
5. Are we going to rush for Under the Royal Castle part 3?

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1) YES. everything we do carries risks. All in all it's worth it, and with SH influence and the reroll we can potentially finish it in a single turn (if we don't consume our reroll in the first attempt) with 2 velvet and 1 baldomare actions.

2)Probably lesson. There's also the fact we know have a larger incentive to keep the Moth book in case we quickly need to go for Moth Sacrament, in which case we MIGHT end up needing to give the Knock book to Baldomare at some point if we don't get more lvl 5-6-7 books.

3)Next turn only if we get at least a lvl 2 or 3 forge reagent to reduce the risks, as failure means 1 wound, and we're currently at 1 health. Also probably do it near the end of the turn so if we STILL fail somehow the "Dancing with Death" should have a very short duration as we heal from at least that first wound right after.

4)...maybe? There's a lot of stuff we need to do, but it's definitely an option. We might want to scry for her first though.

5)PROBABLY not next turn due to Bit costs, and wanting to scry the obstacles first. I think the Expeditions could be solved by just 2 Names (Probably Mareinette + Biedde), maybe 3, But the type of obstacles matters, and the bit cost is high. We might just not be able to afford it next turn.

we potentially might want to spend bits on

1)Scrying for Copper/Windy/Canterlot Part 3/Proto-hive (30 bits per scrying)
2)Summoning Mares in the Light (potentially more than one. Biedde, Axe, Jade and Comet could all potentially do it if we study the Lantern/Knock artifacts first) (55 bits per attempt)
3)redemption of the forge ritual + reagent (20 bits for the ritual, 5-20-45-80 bits for the reagent depending on how much we want to be safe. I'd want at least the lvl 2 one for 20 bits, and I'd prefer lvl 3)
4)The Expeditions. Grave one is 25 bits for 5 days, and I'd likely send either Comet or Selene. Proto-hive is 70 bits per follower (10 days), and canterlot part 3 is 120 bits per follower (15 days). Sending someone to check up on Copper is also 25 bits.


Does someone know how many bits we should have next turn? wage is 160 bits, rarity's share is probably 50 to 60 bits, I'm not sure how much we were left with this turn.

I think we knew the risks involved (also in truth our Velvet is probably the Wolfiest of all possible Velvets, she's the one doing Regrettable Actions!)

I think the reason to do Baldomare's is man it seems easier. When we need 2 actions + a Baldomare + some luck to even have a shot at our own. And possibly another Baldomare action and some more luck down the road.

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basically this, yeah.

We're not 100% sure we're the wolfiest Velvet around though. It's likely, but not a sure thing.

but yeah, we could potentially finish Baldomare in a single turn. Maybe not next turn if we want to prioritize Axe, but the one after at the latest.

I sorta want to keep a Level 5 book in reserve just in case for Baldomare. But that probably is silly. It depends if we think we'll want a Knock Influence from DoA for her Sacrament, I guess?

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nah, we SHOULD keep a lvl 5 book. and if we want to keep the Moth one in case of emergency moth sacrament to buy time from Celestia, then we kinda need to keep the Knock one.

I suppose it's near certain we'll get another lvl5+ book from Canterlot part 3 in the next 3-4 turns, but... what if we end up not being able to afford the expedition, or if we find books we're not willing to give up?

Better to keep our options for Baldomare open if we can.

Yes please I hate being constantly on death's door. I think it's like 4% failure with a Forge 3 reagent? I'd take those odds.

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if done at the end of the turn I'll take it too.

2. This would make sense if we're already studying the artifact.

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eh, Ideally I think we should study Lantern 4 (twice if first attempt fails) and Knock 2 artifacts (if first attempt with Lantern succeeds).

With both of them, we can let our followers summon Mares for us, which we can then use either directly, or for more "cover your bases" actions.

Indeed the [Stalking] Ash will disincentivize casual exploration quite handily, there really isn't any indication or intuitive presumption of value to be had in this wasteland.

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There's the Glory.

Always the Glory.

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comment on the rest later, post already long enough.