Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

Random thought, but I wonder if the only reason that the Forge of Days's seal works at all is because it is possible to extinguish it with Outsider blood? Because there must always be a way up, the Mansus exists only to provide a way to Glory, and so on, so how is it possible to bar the way entirely when even the Shattered Stairways couldn't completely shatter due to that?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I don't think the Worm that made Nightmare Moon was a lesser Worm.

Click to shrink...

It's not the kind of lesser where an Alicorn's light can kill it no but I meant the kind which takes Hours to deal with.

Random thought, but I wonder if the only reason that the Forge of Days's seal works at all is because it is possible to extinguish it with Outsider blood? Because there must always be a way up, the Mansus exists only to provide a way to Glory, and so on, so how is it possible to bar the way entirely when even the Shattered Stairways couldn't completely shatter due to that?

Click to shrink...

At the time no Outsider existed so I don't know how that computes but my guess is more that Forge is inherently used to close and bar Doors. Plus while the path was blocked off it still existed. While in the Shattered Stairways case there would be no path.

Also, the lock can't be opened but the Door can be broken. Probably only by the Forge of Days or an equal but it could be done. The Lionsmith could've done it too what with strength and breaking stuff being his whole thing but well…

He was a bit busy at the time if he was even alive when the way was barred.

 

[DelightedOne]

Besides highly doubt reaching Harmony would fix Regrettable Actions and the longer we take the greater the risk of something happening that results in another being picked.

Click to shrink...

Uhh about that Harmony purified a Worm in this Quest and the Elements are kinda supposed to be used in those terms in canon(removing corruption) so I doubt a Stain that didn't reach all of Velvet's soul would be a challenge for Harmony especially since she would be willing to have it removed to get rid of the Sons(she does Regret what she did).
But I do wonder what the consequences of that would be. Evil being gone would make Equestria go back to normal obviously but Paranoia and Ash were made by actual Regrettable Actions, would that fix the Tribal Door and the Woods, leave them alone or remake them in a harmonious version.

As much as reaching glory would fix things, we'd still have installed ourself as a tyrant.

Click to shrink...

One of my issues with the Glory ending is that if Velvet doesn't take great care the wrong pony could ascend and make a mess like the old Hours used to so she kinda needs to be a tyrant.

There are also possible loose ends like: is the Mansus gonna be magically restored by Glory or will Velvet need to do it herself, are there gonna be new Hours that aren't from flesh if that happens, the Wolves are supposed to disapear or they will become even more powerful since they are connected to another Hour and of course there is the issue of the hierarchy of the Mansus coming back(things weren't good back then) if Velvet as the only Hour(would that make her a Day?) is capable of stablishing a new one things could be better but it seems like that is part of the system so it is unlikely.

Edit: There is also the Wolf. Velvet won't be able to get rid of him since no other Hour could.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Uhh about that Harmony purified a Worm in this Quest

Click to shrink...

We know it removed a Worm from a host we have zero indication it actually killed it. In fact its likely the Worms learned to infest people from Harmony, as it a power they explicitly did not have before.

 

[DelightedOne]

We know it removed a Worm from a host we have zero indication it actually killed it. In fact its likely the Worms learned to infest people from Harmony, as it a power they explicitly did not have before.

Click to shrink...

What would have happened to it if it was not killed? Harmony tends to do away with things like the Worms since they are the corruption and don't belong in the world.
The Worm that possessed Luna was noticeably smarter than the ones we know about since it made a trap instead of just jumping on her like a predator would so it learning by itself is plausible.

There is also the small detail that Luna is not a pony she is an Alicorn and half of a Outsider so that could have made a difference since she is not part of the known list of species that hosted a worm so the effects could diverge from the norm. The Master was the one who explained the Worms to Velvet and if Baldomare herself had no idea what an Alicorn was I doubt he did.

I have a personal theory that just like in Canon negative emotions can make the Alicorns turn into their monstrous forms(Daybreaker for Celestia and Nighmare Moon for Luna, obviously) and I got that idea when I noticed that in "Dies Irae" Celestia could have become Daybreaker without a Worm involved, the sheer agony of being tortured by one of them is more than enough to activate that transformation so I think it fits. The Worm could also have been just riding along too.

 

[Greymere]

We know it removed a Worm from a host we have zero indication it actually killed it. In fact its likely the Worms learned to infest people from Harmony, as it a power they explicitly did not have before.

Click to shrink...

I mean the Worms also learned how to infest people just on their own even in canon SHverse, so I don't see why that particular skill would be learned from Harmony specifically.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

We know it removed a Worm from a host we have zero indication it actually killed it.

Click to shrink...

Usually when you shoot a thing with a beam of energy that completely annihilates their kind, that thing gets completely annihilated. What indication do you have that it survived?

 

[spiderhellian]

One Other Source of Info on Harmony

I know we don't have much info on Harmony, so here's one possible other source: What of the Heart, That Beats. This was an Apocrypha I intended to be about the Principle of Heart. I had a lot of very wrong theorizing, and so was quite surprised when @OurLadyOfWires marked it canon, noting that "Under a very particular and peculiar interpretation, this is actually spot-on."

I think that 'interpretation' is that it's referring to Harmony. A power that lays at the heart of the world ("the shining core of this world") , that resonates in Equestria, whose power was channeled in rescuing Luna from the Nightmare.

If this is true, it gives us some really, really, interesting observations about Harmony.

It is not a force that can deem this state of affairs as something good, or bad. It merely is, and so it continues, unceasing.
[...]
It is not a power that knows good or bad. It is not really an entity, at all.

Click to shrink...

We are dealing with something that's more of a force and less of an agent. Possibly more a Principle than it is an Hour, and definitely more an Hour than it is a Name. It's not really clear what a dialogue with it would look like, or how we would teach it something.

This is a power that has long been strong in the world, for all its name (and Names) have been forgotten. The power lays upon it like flesh flayed from a back. Oh, it's still there, you can count the bloodstained strips. But its connection is somewhat more tenuous than it used to be.

Click to shrink...

Harmony may be more distant than it once was?

It was a thread it would attend to. It would notice when it shuddered, not too long after. It would notice when it stilled, weak and fragile but not (of course not) ending.

And it noticed when it grew. A pulse, at first. Then strengthening in a slow, seemingly inexorable, process. Threads weaving into threads, braiding and supporting each other. [...] But if it could, it would know anticipation, for just what that thread is becoming.

Click to shrink...

And perhaps it has been paying some modicum of attention to everything happening with Selene.

 

[Greymere]

And perhaps it has been paying some modicum of attention to everything happening with Selene.

Click to shrink...

Tbh that reminds me...

[Search bonuses: +15 (Learning, SH doubled) +20 (SECRET HISTORIES, doubled) + 15 (The First Search, third threshold) + 25 (The Second Search, fifth threshold) + 20 (The Third Search, second threshold) = 95]

[Your accumulated bonuses were enough to guarantee success, and that has attracted the attention of certai-]

Click to shrink...

We still haven't learned what in the world this meant. Attracted the attention of certain... what?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

That list of bonuses was still such bullshit. Like, we could technically replicate it now… by stacking both an Attention and maximum Influence on a Level Four Lore. Which is a stupidly high investment and a whole lot of Lore power at work.

…now I kinda want to do that to look for the Anchor next turn. But we're probably going to be putting Baldomare on searching for DoA's key…

 

[DelightedOne]

One Other Source of Info on Harmony

Click to shrink...

Oh my glob. That was good, why didn't I read it before?

Shame that we never found out what the interpretation was, but I find it interesting how Heart was written (uncaring but unceasing).

Thinking Harmony is separating the Principles from the world sounds a bit much though, it feels more like what happened when The Lithomachy finished, the Gods-from-Stone had their Principles taken and renamed by the newer Hours(in The Wheel's case its Principle was even split in two) so with no Hours Harmony is probably doing that but much slower since it isn't an Hour(and as I said a while ago could be the reason why it doesn't act directly in the Wake, because it isn't part of the world the same way the Hours were).

But we're probably going to be putting Baldomare on searching for DoA's key…

Click to shrink...

Wasn't the plan making her look for a level 5 book on turn 19 to extend her stay?

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Usually when you shoot a thing with a beam of energy that completely annihilates their kind, that thing gets completely annihilated. What indication do you have that it survived?

Click to shrink...

Apart from the fact Worms are fundamentally unkillable outright. They are an order of being on par with Hours/Discord, and it had a thousand years to grow it strength by feeding on Luna.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Wasn't the plan making her look for a level 5 book on turn 19 to extend her stay?

Click to shrink...

Maybe? I don't really remember what exactly the majority plan was, but I think I remember a lot of people expecting that an Expedition for the Key would probably be high level enough that there's a good chance books would also be in it. Or something.

 

[Greymere]

Apart from the fact Worms are fundamentally unkillable outright. They are an order of being on par with Hours/Discord, and it had a thousand years to grow it strength by feeding on Luna.

Click to shrink...

Both SHverse canon and quest canon would like to disagree with you there.

Spoiler: mansus_peacockdoor2

Last night I visited the Worm Museum, which is both within the Mansus (for security) and without (for safety). The Hours have charged the Colonel with its defence, and even the Lionsmith does not challenge him here. Winter is the chiefest aspect of this place. The Worms thrive where things end, but they can also be ended, and they must, if the Mansus is to endure. This morning, the chilly certainty of the Colonel's hand still lies on my shoulder.

"You know, we already are in the dreamlands. We always have been," she says, her voice a perfect resemblance of your sister, only wrong, "but those that come first are too small and frail. Your very sight destroys them, before you even notice they are there. Your very presence dissolves them, like a bonfire might evaporate drops of a light rain."

Click to shrink...

Harmony's light is explicitly capable of destroying Worms entirely. Even if its only the weaker ones (for now), they are still Worms. And that was just with Luna's passive presence; presumably getting rainbowblasted by the Elements of Harmony is more potent than that, considering that iirc in MLP canon its capable of doing stuff that the alicorns can't, e.g. sealing Discord.

Edit:

Maybe? I don't really remember what exactly the majority plan was, but I think I remember a lot of people expecting that an Expedition for the Key would probably be high level enough that there's a good chance books would also be in it. Or something.

Click to shrink...

Iirc there wasn't really a plan, per se. Just a lot of maybes and wants ultimately ending in "well Luna coming back is probably going to upend any potential plans anyway".

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

VOTING CLOSED

Winning vote:
[] A self-invited guest
-Good Baldomare has told you a secret. Good Baldomare has told you something you did not know. Good Baldomare told you something you already knew, but never really connected the dots about.
-Good Baldomare told you there is an "anchor", somewhere in Canterlot. A place, or a thing, or a pony, that exists in all Histories at once. One that she could use like a door, or like a ladder, to quickly reach the pony capital.
-Good Baldomare told you that this "anchor" is, without a doubt, an Outsider. One whose blood could be harvested for the inescapable end that is reaching Glory.
-EFFECT: Advance your objective of locating an Outsider

Spoiler: Vote counting

Vote Tally : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience | Page 11 | Questionable Questing [Posts: 308-627]
##### NetTally 4.0.2

[X] A self-invited guest
No. of Votes: 32
[X] Witherbrine2671
[X] ActuallySatan
[X] Alan975
[x] Bakkasama
[X] Blackeagle1991
[X] Darkday
[X] des-pair-2
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] EMIYA
[x] F#A#
[X] Greymere
[X] IronHydra
[X] Iustus Vitea
[X] Jimmy
[x] Kai Merah
[X] Kingmaker123
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Lorrie
[X] master2000
[X] Nate700
[x] Pharohman777
[X] Portec
[X] qeadzc
[X] Random Anon
[X] Shadels
[X] Shaper47
[X] Skelm
[X] SolipsistSerpent
[X] The Radiance's Follower
[X] Turamarth
[X] Void_510
[X] Zxzx24

[X] A disturbed guest
No. of Votes: 20
[X] Gyldir
[X] Anjaxis
[X] Bakkasama
[X] Calico J
[X] DelightedOne
[X] F#A#
[X] Greymere
[X] HellFire666
[X] Iustus Vitea
[X] jelloloaf
[x] Kai Merah
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] Nevermort
[X] notgreat
[x] Pittauro
[X] Potdl
[X] Random Anon
[X] Shadels
[X] Void_510

[X] A host of guests
No. of Votes: 17
[X] Jame
[X] Anjaxis
[X] AuthorTransient
[X] DelightedOne
[X] des-pair-2
[X] Gyldir
[X] keykigdom
[X] Limabot
[X] master2000
[X] Nevermort
[X] Rafuki22
[X] SirKana
[X] Skelm
[X] Solace2117
[X] Talon Tiger Dino
[X] Venerable Ro
[X] Zxzx24

[X] A Royal guest
No. of Votes: 13
[X] Starlit Horizon
[X] Alan975
[X] Anjaxis
[X] BritBiscuit
[X] Cochimetl
[X] jelloloaf
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] master2000
[X] notgreat
[X] Shadels
[X] Sveta08
[X] Talon Tiger Dino

[X] A troublesome guest
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Cochimetl

[X] Pat Softy (She deserves it)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Venerable Ro


Total No. of Voters: 55

Let me just say, thank you all for putting up with the inconvenience that was(/is) changing sites.

Writing will continue a few hours from now. I'll try to have an update, large or small, done today, but no promises.

And more importantly, I hope you are all doing well!

 

[Pittauro]

Let me just say, thank you all for putting up with the inconvenience that was(/is) changing sites.

Click to shrink...

nah, it was super easy, barely an inconvenience!

If anything the annoying part would have been for you, to copy all the main story threadmarks and then the informational ones.

... hey, I actually have a chance to be the user with the most posts again! I was brought down to third in the previous thread!

In any case... Baldomare/Outsider knowledge won.

IF it's an Outsider we can (and are willing to) kill, then this will have definitely been a good choice.

If not... eh, I stand by my vote, I'd have rather gone with Midday Dew. But none of those was something we can't recover later. Maybe we could do a social with Midday Dew next turn, for example. and for Celestia, well, there's always Luna returning.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

... hey, I actually have a chance to be the user with the most posts again! I was brought down to third in the previous thread!

Click to shrink...

Mmm. We'll see how long that lasts.

 

[Greymere]

IF it's an Outsider we can (and are willing to) kill, then this will have definitely been a good choice.

Click to shrink...

If it's not Discord, I would be very, very surprised. And I don't think anyone has expressed an unwillingness to kill him so far? Not that I can remember anyway, but it's been a while.

 

[Pittauro]

If it's not Discord, I would be very, very surprised. And I don't think anyone has expressed an unwillingness to kill him so far? Not that I can remember anyway, but it's been a while.

Click to shrink...

As of right now Discord is, as far as we know, an unredeemed villain. Even in canon it took a LOT for him to REALLY become good.

It's very much implied he caused lots of suffering during his era of chaos... though to be fair much of the destruction attributed to him in canon might have been caused by the destruction of the Mansus instead.

Then again, the timing implies he only could get "in" because the Hours were no longer guarding this world.

In any case, yeah, It's 95% Discord, and if we CAN kill him we definitely will. Nobody would miss him right now, and if we need to kill someone anyway...

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Discord's still in his total jackass phase, and while theoretically the crossover means we should suspect changes, it's also, you know, Cultist Simulator. Those changes probably just mean he's even worse.

 

[Cochimetl]

If the choice is Discord, Celestia or Luna, I know whose blood I'd vote for. And not just because I don't think we can take Celestia.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Both SHverse canon and quest canon would like to disagree with you there.

Last night I visited the Worm Museum, which is both within the Mansus (for security) and without (for safety). The Hours have charged the Colonel with its defence, and even the Lionsmith does not challenge him here. Winter is the chiefest aspect of this place. The Worms thrive where things end, but they can also be ended, and they must, if the Mansus is to endure. This morning, the chilly certainty of the Colonel's hand still lies on my shoulder.

Click to shrink...

The Hours explicitly did not have a way to kill worms the most they could do was imprison them. We know this for a fact, that why the Worm Museum was made.

Harmony's light is explicitly capable of destroying Worms entirely. Even if its only the weaker ones (for now), they are still Worms. And that was just with Luna's passive presence; presumably getting rainbowblasted by the Elements of Harmony is more potent than that, considering that iirc in MLP canon its capable of doing stuff that the alicorns can't, e.g. sealing Discord.

Click to shrink...

A that a memory not fact, and B that still not a statement of truly killing a Worm. The Hours could dissolve a Worm still did not kill them.

 

[Pittauro]

If the choice is Discord, Celestia or Luna, I know whose blood I'd vote for. And not just because I don't think we can take Celestia.

Click to shrink...

We are JUST about to have Luna go sane again, I'd indeed rather we didn't replace any hopefully positive feeling she might have for us by killing her sister and other half.

 

[Greymere]

The Hours explicitly did not have a way to kill worms the most they could do was imprison them. We know this for a fact, that why the Worm Museum was made.

Click to shrink...

If the Hours explicitly cannot kill Worms then please, by all means, provide your quote. Considering I provided one which explicitly stated that Worms are capable of being ended.

A that a memory not fact, and B that still not a statement of truly killing a Worm. The Hours could dissolve a Worm still did not kill them.

Click to shrink...

Are you also going to contest every other piece of information we learned from Luna's Path Through Nightmares then, or are you only bringing this up now because a Worm outright saying that Luna's presence can destroy Worms is inconvenient for your point?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Yeah, the real problem with Celestia and Luna is that even if you could theoretically kill one, there's a second just waiting to put your ass in the dirt. Discord is… generally a lot harder to kill if you're treating him at all close to canon, but at least there's only one of him.

 

[Pittauro]

Yeah, the real problem with Celestia and Luna is that even if you could theoretically kill one, there's a second just waiting to put your ass in the dirt. Discord is… generally a lot harder to kill if you're treating him at all close to canon, but at least there's only one of him.

Click to shrink...

and hey, who knows... he is strong, but he was also strong in an era without any lore-user around.

For all we know he's particularly vulnerable to our rituals. Maybe something like multiple EiB rituals in separate turns could kill him. Or maybe we can make a custom ritual specialized to work against him.

 

[Sveta08]

Well, it was inevitable the result.
But still! Very looking forward to what comes!


Right now I am wrangling a new idea inspired by the great many questions and concerns and ideas presented here of Discord and the Anchor.

Specifically, if I reach deep into the themes and ideas from Discord and that are present around him. The chaos, the anchor, the petrification, the disorder, the outsider blood.


We believe in Discord yes, but is that because he is Discord?

Even the Hours imprisoned them in stone with an eternal vigil. Each brought and changed the world they touched, making it ever more dead. And Discord has a similar sort of..... Influence, one could say.

I don't know. I will have to chew on this.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Well Baldomare won and I still am a bit confused about whether the discussion in the vote spoiler was in private, because from my reading it seems like Baldomare just says a bunch of suspicious things to us in front of a chef she was trying to steal wine from and the Lunar agent that fetched us, I guess ill just see in the update to come whether I was reading wrong or it just doesn't effect our suspicion level.

Also hurrah for the first vote completed on the new site!

 

[BritBiscuit]

Well, it was inevitable the result.
But still! Very looking forward to what comes!


Right now I am wrangling a new idea inspired by the great many questions and concerns and ideas presented here of Discord and the Anchor.

Specifically, if I reach deep into the themes and ideas from Discord and that are present around him. The chaos, the anchor, the petrification, the disorder, the outsider blood.


We believe in Discord yes, but is that because he is Discord?

Even the Hours imprisoned them in stone with an eternal vigil. Each brought and changed the world they touched, making it ever more dead. And Discord has a similar sort of..... Influence, one could say.

I don't know. I will have to chew on this.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't say Discord is linked to the Worms as none of the Names speak of him as a near ending of everything that worms of such power getting into the Wake would be. Also the Master wouldn't put him next to the sisters in the Outsider box, they'd put them in Worm and Outsider respectively ( or maybe they wouldn't Moth being about confusion and secrets and all )
Finally I wouldn't say Discords reality warping makes the world more dead, if anything he adds more life to it (chaotic as it may be) and is more of a Moth Hour (in terms of temperment and power not actually being an Hour just a comparisson) with his kinda 4th wall knowledge in the show and his propensity for chaos/confusion.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Well Baldomare won and I still am a bit confused about whether the discussion in the vote spoiler was in private, because from my reading it seems like Baldomare just says a bunch of suspicious things to us in front of a chef she was trying to steal wine from and the Lunar agent that fetched us, I guess ill just see in the update to come whether I was reading wrong or it just doesn't effect our suspicion level.

Also hurrah for the first vote completed on the new site!

Click to shrink...

I tend to assume that when the QM says an option is not bad, then it's, you know, not bad.

Yes, the "effects" have vague descriptions. That is intentional. All the options are good, or at least not bad, so if in doubt just pick what you feel is best.

Click to shrink...