Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Rafuki22]

Edit: aaannnddd they scattered.

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Am i missing something?

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Hi guests, now would be a good time to make an account and join in on the insanity fun, give us your votes.

Also, there are sadly probably plenty of readers that only come in and vote whenever there's a threadmark or when Bird posts, we need a way to lure them in hmmm .

Come all!! We have punch and pie.

Edit: aaannnddd they scattered.

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I am pretty sure those spikes on the guest numbers are a bug

Guest number bug/DDOS concern?

I don't know the first thing about technology and numbers, and to be honest I don't even know if I wrote the "ddos" acronym correctly. But every now and then, when I go to my thread, I see that the guest number is in the upper hundreds. And for all that I used to host this story in another...

forum.questionablequesting.com

 

[ses]

Im going to put an explanation of the subversion of the Lores here for those who may have just joined the quest from QQ and don't know the terms of cult sim.

Spoiler: Subversion Guide Image

Moth (lack of understanding) is consumed by the Lantern's flame (knowledge/understanding), Lantern's oil (Knowledge) is used to fuel the Forge (Creation/destruction), The Forge creates the Edge's blades (Conflict), The Edge brings the Winter to those in the spring of their life (Conflict inevitably causes endings and is ended in turn), The Winter is endured by those whos Heart pumps warm blood through their veins (Endings cannot end that which cannot be ended), The blood of Heart fills the Grail to be sipped upon (Unceasing just means that Unceasing desires become self destructive obsessions), The Grail holds nothing a Moth could want (Desires of a being of confusion cannot be understood or consistent enough to exploit).

(Edit: due to the feedback of Venerable Ro and Pittauro making a good arguement for a different interpretation of Grail to Moth subversion I will put that interpretation in this edit so its all in one post, full credit to them. Drunkeness leads to Confusion.)

Knock is the principle of barriers and the opening of passages, the thresholds that divide and distinguish other lores are broken down by it.

Well I think I put the subversion into easily understood metaphors and rock paper scissors but I may have stretched them a bit and made it confusing, please give feedback on if the info is clear enough.

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Easiest way to remember is "My Love For Every Waffle Has Gone Mad"

Been binge reading for the last three days and this story is great! I'm not caught up yet though I just wanted to share that mnemonic.

 

[Xoden]

and you get a situation that resembles one of the worse faery stories.

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A classic changeling horror indeed.

Wait, no, Velvet did not look into Internet and can't explain things to human Twilight. Yes, now we are doomed.

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She's a smart and weird loner kid. She'll figure it out in no time.

CD (why CD instead of DC?)

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Because the author is Brazilian, I think. So it's Classe de Dificuldade.

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
Onward to Twilights' isekai adventures!
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
[X] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?
[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
To continue Velvet's morally questionable "Back to School" comedy route.

 

[Greymere]

Hey @Pittauro, dunno why, but your vote isn't showing up in the tally. Might want to try posting the vote in a new post or something?

 

[Pittauro]

Yeah I think we should have left as soon as we got the Frangiclave. Which, well, I already was of that opinion before the last vote, but the results mostly just confirmed for me that yes, we should have been better off using that AP for something else in the real world rather than puttering around here longer.


Jade's already on it this turn, remember?

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my bad, I totally forgot.

It would have been if we had checked the internet, but nooooo...

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eh, we quite literally don't know. Personally I was more curious about the Library, but then again it's possible both were dead-ends with little to show for it.

That is once again making the same mistake the voting has always made with Twilight. In being to gentle, every single time the thread voted to be gentle and got worse off with Twilight.

Twilight is not a pony that responds to the gentle approach, their a reason Celestia kicked her out of Canterlot, without any warning or advice. Twilight only really learns the hard way.

Not doing the swap is just Velvet being a plain coward. When someone is mentally compromised like Twilight is they are not allowed to makes big life choices. Doing the swap is the only thing left to help Twilight, extreme situations requires extreme actions to solve.

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by respecting her wish, not kidnapping her and putting her in a funhouse mirror of her former life that might or might not make her even worse.

Yeah, truly the apex of cowardice

The argument Twilight shouldn't be allowed to make "big life choices" HAS some sense. But of all people VELVET has the LEAST rights to make decisions for her.

If somebody had to be forceful with her at this point it should be either Cadance or Shining Armor. And hey, for all we know they'll eventually do it.

And if they don't... well, little we can do about it right now.

My fear is that she will become an obstacle or try to do something with Silky or just GRAILBOMB Canterlot into opposing us, if she realizes the likely lethal things(that many posters want) that we will do to her if we have the chance, the desperation or indignation of a noblemare directed at Velvet is not something i want to read.

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possible, but I think a bit unlikely. I imagine we'd go from All In to the Glory nearly immediately, and Mareinette might very well never notice. If Baldomare gets on our side I imagine she could warn us, even, though who knows.

On the one hand I want more Soft and pony Twilight interaction. On the other hand I don't like Velvet morals standing in the way of her helping others, be it pony Twilight or Human one. And being selfish to a degree is not a crime.

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kidnapping is


but really, I'm just tired of the topic. Everyone said everything they think anyway.

Hey @Pittauro, dunno why, but your vote isn't showing up in the tally. Might want to try posting the vote in a new post or something?

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uh. weird.

[x] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[Greymere]

uh. weird.

[x] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

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It's there now! But yeah. Weird.

 

[DelightedOne]

I swore I mentioned something about this but it seems I didn't sooo...

Okay so this:

Something that tells you that she is more mature, or maybe even wiser, than anyone else you have ever known. Something that tells you she already understands everything, and that she knows the way forward.

Something that makes you feel that she is so… so ahead of you, so much more graceful, that she can see this situation for what it really is. And that, in her judgment, this is something that can be taken care of with a spirit of play and an attitude of nurturing.

She doesn't need to punish you. She can do that, of course. But a single word from her, here and now, and she will not only gain your appreciation and loyalty for the rest of your life, but she also knows you will never do anything like this ever again.

Not without her approval, that is.

You don't know why, you don't know how, and you can't even properly describe it. But looking at her, you can't help but feel… at peace.

And also, you can't help but see that standing next to her is-

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This was a look at Celestia's role in the great plan of Harmony(and also the reason why Equestria became so complacent, especially the nobles).

But the way they interacted just now. The way that Celestia spoke and Luna moved, you can't help but feel that…

You feel like you just witnessed something. Something deep. Something that is just right.

Now that you think about it, you don't think Equestria has ever seen Celestia and Luna acting together. Not in a thousand years, at least. Not like this. Now that you think of it, this is what the real world was robbed of.

Because this… this is how it was supposed to be. This was the plan all along. This is how things were meant to go.

Two sisters, acting together, like two sides of the same coin. Absolute good together with necessary evil. The nurturing leader together with the harsh taskmaster. The sun together with the moon. Two partners that trust each other implicitly, and who know when to act, and when to relent to the other, as easily as a pair of hands knows not to bump against each other.

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This was the greater picture, the way things should have been. And also proof that Harmony knows that everything is not sunshine and rainbows and planned for how to deal with things with the right approach depending on what the right approach is.

Because even though this world is just a distorted dream, and even though what you see here is an echo of an echo, you can't help but think that you witnessed something… you can't really describe.

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Okay, this and the "backstage" thing where Velvet saw what seemed like Harmony(and most likely was) makes me think the mirror world has some sort of secret related to the nature of Harmony that we may want to find later if DoA lets us come back.

The only place I think could have another clue is the library, so we should go there if we ever come back. There is also the chance talking to someone takes us to more pieces of the puzzle, like looking for Celestia and Luna.

 

[Rafuki22]

Around 4 hours left.

Wonder if there are going to be last minute votes?

Anyway, seems that the choice to not swapping Twilights will win, time to ruin the hopeful Twilight once again i guess, hope that we don't regret this.

I suppose that this way we will get straight to the point with DoA reaction?

 

[Limabot]

Well, this Equestria Girls thing has been significantly less relaxing than I was expecting, and I really just want to get around to finding out what the Sacrament actually does, seeing how Cadence reacts to Velvet's leg working again, and hearing whatever Jade has to say about the Memory of Light.

 

[Nevermort]

The argument Twilight shouldn't be allowed to make "big life choices" HAS some sense. But of all people VELVET has the LEAST rights to make decisions for her.

If somebody had to be forceful with her at this point it should be either Cadance or Shining Armor. And hey, for all we know they'll eventually do it.

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Velvet personally has not done anything bad to Twilight.
Let's check. She has not arranged changeling kidnapping, Twilight got there entirely on her own.
Velvet's mention of Twilight to the cult was what prevented cult from killing her.
Velvet organized Twilight rescue from the cult too.
She done more than Cadence and Shining and even if not done enough she still have better track record than anyone else. I don't see why she especially should have least rights to make decisions for her. She got most experience in rescuing Twilight after all.

kidnapping is

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Just a mandatory vacation under warm sun.
Hour Velvet will easily put her out. Or Long Velvet can organize expedition to search for Harmony and Mirror world location.
Time dilation behind mirror should ensure that Twilight stays for relatively short time.

but really, I'm just tired of the topic. Everyone said everything they think anyway.

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Sorry, but at least there is only few hours remaining, right? I can even make them a bit more exciting.


[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

To be clear I am still interested in WolfTwilight but I also want to gloat about it without any bit of responsibility for the outcome, especially if its worse than I assume, so here is critical support for possible Harmony plant Twilight.

 

[IronHydra]

Wonder if there are going to be last minute votes?

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We can only hope we'll have some people come in to cast theirs at the end, or maybe some change their votes from earlier that didn't chose an exit option. Have a sudden overthrow victory.

The only path I see that remains for Pony!Twi is the Wolf's, it's too fitting for the hand she's been dealt in this quest, it makes too much sense for the original hero of the series to be the one that falls to the bottom because of Velvet's rise.

we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Demilich]

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[Pittauro]

This was the greater picture, the way things should have been. And also proof that Harmony knows that everything is not sunshine and rainbows and planned for how to deal with things with the right approach depending on what the right approach is.

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on a side note it makes Selene being Velvet's daughter/student more fitting, as Velvet TRIES to limit herself to "necessary evil" for the most part. So it's basically what Luna should do.

 

[Greymere]

Velvet personally has not done anything bad to Twilight.
Let's check. She has not arranged changeling kidnapping, Twilight got there entirely on her own.
Velvet's mention of Twilight to the cult was what prevented cult from killing her.
Velvet organized Twilight rescue from the cult too.
She done more than Cadence and Shining and even if not done enough she still have better track record than anyone else. I don't see why she especially should have least rights to make decisions for her. She got most experience in rescuing Twilight after all.

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A lack of intent to cause harm doesn't absolve us from the consequences of our actions.

We briefly drove her insane due to irresponsibility.
We encouraged her to stick with Celestia, which directly led to her going to confront Celestia and led to her kidnapping.
Our actions, both as part of the cult and as an independent actor, led directly to the changeling catastrophe, Spike's death, the shattering of her horn, and her kidnapping by the cult.
It was our information that led to her being taken hostage by the cult and her horn shattered, because we portrayed her as a token to be spent, not a convert to be won.

And yeah, there were reasons that we did these things, usually well-intentioned. But that doesn't change that there were several points in time where we could have done something else, and as a result Twilight would have experienced much less tragedy and pain. And Velvet, I imagine, is very aware of this.

Edit: And yet, here we are, again debating whether we should throw yet another massive spanner directly into her life, just so Velvet can feed her savior complex and assure herself that she "saved" a Twilight. Nevermind that Mirror Twilight is not in a situation needing saving from, nevermind that she'd be banishing Twilight from her own world and body for the crime of *checks notes* being traumatized, with just the dubious justification of "well it's not Equestria!" to rationalize why it'd actually totally make her better.

You, and others, keep asserting that the Wolf is the only end left for Twilight in Equestria. But I find it far more likely it'd find her here, in a world that would never believe her truths and her traumas, that couldn't even begin to treat her mind because it wouldn't be able to be accurately diagnosed in the first place. But we wouldn't see it, would we? So we, and Velvet, get to pat ourselves on the back and pretend that we did something good, while the Wolf gnaws on her abandoned bones.

 

[Solace2117]

People can argue that every time Velvet has been nice to Twilight things have gone wrong. Realistically the pattern has been just as much that every time Velvet has actively gotten involved with her she's made it worse. I don't know why this would be different.
I want to be clear this is not a criticism of the people voting because I do think some genuinely think it'll help. From Velvet's perspective though I keep coming back to it makes her sound like an abuser trying to justify their actions. I don't think she really wants to help, she's just trying to make herself feel better.

 

[Oooooooo]

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

I think this option is more interesting. Leaving things as they are is pretty boring.

 

[DelightedOne]

From Velvet's perspective though I keep coming back to it makes her sound like an abuser trying to justify their actions. I don't think she really wants to help, she's just trying to make herself feel better.

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You went a bit too far here. Abuser is not the correct term.

Velvet is more like a harbinger of doom and death in denial.

Edit: Also if Velvet really only hurts Twilight whenever they interact then people should not be voting to mess with her again saying she is going to be better after meddling in her life one more time.

 

[Greymere]

And for those who only care about the practical and/or "ooh shiny new Confidant" side of things: bringing Twilight over to our side would be a massive narrative and action sink. There will be complications, guaranteed by Word of Bird. She will need assistance acclimating to Equestria, she will need help and time learning both the Lores and regular unicorn magic, she will need help figuring out how to deal with people who already have a history with "her" in a country already on lookout for shapeshifting imposters, we'd inevitably have to spend time and energy bullshitting to Cadance and Shining why Twilight had a 180 change in attitude (again, during a time when people are already suspicious about imposters), and hell, we're probably going to have to either deal with the fallout of Mirror Twilight realizing exactly what we did to bring her to Equestria or gaslight a second Twilight. This is time we could better put to use by actually preparing for All In. Sacraments! Artifacts! Finding more spirits and a summoning site! Getting to Heart 4 so we at least have a goddamn reroll!

 

[DelightedOne]

And for those who only care about the practical and/or "ooh shiny new Confidant" side of things: bringing Twilight over to our side would be a massive narrative and action sink. There will be complications, guaranteed by Word of Bird. She will need assistance acclimating to Equestria, she will need help and time learning both the Lores and regular unicorn magic, she will need help figuring out how to deal with people who already have a history with "her" in a country already on lookout for shapeshifting imposters, and we'd inevitably have to spend time and energy bullshitting to Cadance and Shining why Twilight had a 180 change in attitude (again, during a time when people are already suspicious about imposters). This is time we could better put to use by actually preparing for All In. Sacraments! Artifacts! Finding more spirits and a summoning site! Getting to Heart 4 so we at least have a goddamn reroll!

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And there is also the small detail of losing the Element of Magic permanently in exchange for a high school girl.

 

[Rafuki22]

ut I find it far more likely it'd find her here, in a world that would never believe her truths and her traumas,

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Assuming that the Wolf can even reach her there.

bringing Twilight over to our side would be a massive narrative and action sink.

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I don't think that it would be that massive, but even then i'm still willing to do it.

And there is also the small detail of losing the Element of Magic permanently in exchange for a high school girl.

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She is also the Element of Magic, that's why she is Twilight reflection.

All of us are basically making whatever excuse we can to have our choice win when we all know that we don't have solid evidence, only assumptions, predictions, fears and wants.

 

[Greymere]

I don't think that it would be that massive, but even then i'm still willing to do it.

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Why? Like, genuinely, why? There are so many other things we could spend our AP on that would be infinitely more productive to actually achieving our goal. Because in case you forgot, we're on a time limit. We have to finish All In before Celestia's Lantern catches up to our Moth, or we are fucked. Adding in a new AP sink just means that we are spread even thinner than we already are, and increases our chance of either getting sunblasted to death or dying en route to Discord because we were too busy putting out another freaking fire that we set ourselves to properly prepare.

Assuming that the Wolf can even reach her there.

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I was under the impression that we were using the Wolf as a euphemism for suicide, as the thread so often does, or possibly the Dread endstate, not the literal Hour poking his nose into a dream world. Seeing as he's a bit busy stabbing himself on the Ascent of Knives. And I don't particularly see why suicide would be ontologically impossible in the Mirror World.

 

[DelightedOne]

She is also the Element of Magic, that's why she is Twilight reflection.

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*CLEARS THROAT CALMLY*

-You will bring back with you "Twilight Sparkle, the student of Canterlot High".

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You will take "Twilight Sparkle, the Element of Magic" through the Foggy Mirror, and leave her in place of her alter-ego on the other side.

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Are you sure about that?

 

[Solace2117]

You went a bit too far here. Abuser is not the correct term.

Velvet is more like a harbinger of doom and death in denial.

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Honestly I don't think I did. It's what I think she sounds like. I'm not necessarily calling Velvet that, there is at least some nuance, Velvet didn't directly torture her. The fact remains though that every time Velvet hasn't gotten involved it's ended badly. I want to help her as well, but considering the circumstances I don't see any reason to be optimistic that this will be different. I also lack faith that we'll do any better with the new Twilight though I'm sure Velvet can convince herself otherwise. After all she knows better. She's really doing it to help. She didn't mean it, she'll get it right this time.

Once again I get some people think this will help. At a certain point as much as people want to help, sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. Yes, if everyone does nothing it doesn't work, but generally the person responsible isn't the best person to fix it in cases like this. Especially when the option to "fix" it, is kidnapping her, tossing her into another world, and hope it works out.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

She is also the Element of Magic, that's why she is Twilight reflection.

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The end of the post here:

-You will bring back with you "Twilight Sparkle, the student of Canterlot High". She will follow you back to the real world and immediately become a Confidante.

...

-You will take "Twilight Sparkle, the Element of Magic" through the Foggy Mirror, and leave her in place of her alter-ego on the other side.

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Implies that the human Twilight isn't the Element of Magic. Describing pony Twilight as "the Element of Magic" to specify her over the "student of Canterlot High" makes it pretty clear that the alternate Twilight isn't an Element.

 

[Alan975]

...but mu collection? sigh.
No twilight, no Sunshine, and I doubt that we'll get our hands on rainbow dash.
At least we have Cadance, but one out of 4 of my favs doesn't feel like a win.

Leaning towards lantern AOTL after this.

A question
Now that DOA is perhaps going to be free, how much of a threat could she be if we step on her tail one time too many?
Cuz it sounds like we'll progress our courtship friendship with Mareinette soon'ich

 

[Greymere]

...but mu collection? sigh.
No twilight, no Sunshine, and I doubt that we'll get our hands on rainbow dash.
At least we have Cadance, but one out of 4 of my favs doesn't feel like a win.

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Even if we take this Twilight, it's still not Equestria "Should Have Been the Alicorn of Friendship" Twilight. Actual Twilight is gone and lost. This is someone else entirely.

Hence why I say Mirror Twilight is ultimately just a replacement goldfish for Velvet. Velvet doesn't actually know this Twilight. Like, at all. We've, what? Talked to her three times in the span of a few weeks? Two of which weren't even actual conversations, just Velvet being spooky and mysterious?

Edit: Also as someone (don't remember who, sorry) pointed out, we're talking to a teenager (not known for impulse control or rational thinking) with Grail 4, a max level Influence, hidden rolls, and with Velvet being extremely irrational and playing unreliable narrator up to 11. These are not conditions that inspire me to believe that this situation is what Mirror Twilight's uninfluenced desire would be and not Velvet pushing her toward an outcome that Velvet wants (i.e. to """save""" a Twilight).

 

[Limabot]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
I am voting again just to make sure that my thing isn't being left out by a bug or something.

 

[Rafuki22]

Why? Like, genuinely, why? There are so many other things we could spend our AP on that would be infinitely more productive to actually achieving our goal. Because in case you forgot, we're on a time limit.

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There are going to be AP sinks like Windy anyway, and i still don't think that it is going to be that bad.

As always, not matters what we choose, RNG will decide how well the choice goes.

I was under the impression that we were using the Wolf as a euphemism for suicide,

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She could also do that in the real world, or just become something worse.

Are you sure about that?

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Now that you pointed it, no...she could grow into it? Plausible, but still an excuse.

And is not like we actually care that much about Harmony and the Elements do we? Pony Twilight certainly isn't going to make her Element work in her current state, or at all for the foreseeable future.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

The argument Twilight shouldn't be allowed to make "big life choices" HAS some sense. But of all people VELVET has the LEAST rights to make decisions for her.

If somebody had to be forceful with her at this point it should be either Cadance or Shining Armor. And hey, for all we know they'll eventually do it.

And if they don't... well, little we can do about it right now.

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If a person that needs help, and you want to offer it but, don't offer it, out of fear over being shouted at that is Cowardice. Velvet is a coward make no mistake she always has been, and while her frightened trait is gone it does not undo an entire lifetime of learned habits and responses.