Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Cochimetl]

We…

We had a whole scene, a thousand words, telling us that Biedde is hiding something from us. That he's playing other games and has other desires.

I take it as saying — That we shouldn't trust him!

I don't think those other games and hidden desires are hidden from Mareinette. And when he's told us it's the thing we don't know that kills us, and we don't know so much about him, I don't want to trust him with this!!'

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We can't rely on him to act in our best interest. He might obey orders in a way we don't like, he might do other things on the side we don't like that we haven't expressively forbidden.
What we can rely on is the binding itself. He will do as he is told, no more, no less. Unlike Mareinette, he doesn't have an out.

 

[DelightedOne]

Yeah, we've been told pretty clearly that trusting Biedde is a dangerous path to follow. I simply don't trust him at this!

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Considering who and what Mareinette is I think Biedde would at the very least stop her from reaching Velvet since, you know, Colonel morality means "kill monsters and maintain the status quo" and letting a Alukite reach Glory is definitely against that.

 

[Pittauro]

You're forgetting about the +40 from the Influence, if we're talking about our chances this turn. Tbh I expect the DCs to be something like 110/130/150 for the first, second, and third actions.

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...wait, I copied the bonuses from the previous attempt.

Did we ACTUALLY try WITHOUT an SH influence active? Really? I didnt' remember that!

but yeah, in that case... +94 for DC 130, is a minimum required of 36. less if we need a lower roll.

I find it a bit uncomfortable still, really. It might just be better to study artifacts now (or find a ritual location), then next turn we do Baldomare Sacrament, and the one after we do double Personal with influence, and we'd roll +104 (as we'd have SH 5) with reroll.

We can also work on Biedde's Sacrament next turn too.

We wouldn't be able to do the Moth Sacrament next turn even if we wanted to. We need to have everything set up for the Sacrament before the turn start, unless it's reached by something like a Name lesson, so we need Moth 4 4/4 and Spoiled at Close Friend (to Leash into Confidant) prior to turn start on the turn we do the Moth Sacrament.

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true.

I'm thinking we do something like this:

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Turn 22:

Biedde Edge Sacrament (1 Biedde action, 1 Velvet action. POTENTIALLY more confidant actions on AotL? I think we can do that).

Baldomare SH Sacrament (1 Velvet, 1 Baldomare).

Study Moth book (and other books if we roll well enough), so we're prepared for Moth SH the following turn.

I forget if Spoiled is at good friend. if not, an action on that too)



Turn 23:

Moth Sacrament. (1 Velvet Action, Leash)

Personal Sacrament (2 Velvet actions, 1 Baldomare actions on SH influence).

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Basically we get two sacraments next turn (Biedde Edge and Baldomare SH) and two on turn 23 (Personal SH, Moth)

I'd say that's a more than acceptable pace. And in the meantime if we can we study other artifacts and books and do expeditions to get more, so we might if we're lucky work on Personal Winter- Personal Forge- Baldomare Lantern Sacraments

As a reminder,

Baldomare Lantern requires us to be at Lantern 4/4. We're 0/4, but we can get 1 scrap from the artifact and I THINK 2 scraps from Baldomare Lantern influence. I don't think we did it yet. So we effectively only need 1 more source of scraps, and we have plenty of expeditions on the queue that might give it

Personal Forge requires us to be at Forge 2/4 (presumably we'd get at least one scrap from the alchemical attempts themselves). we're at 0/4. Forge Influence COULD give us 1 or 2 (tier 4) scraps, AND then would help in the sacrament actions themselves too.

Personal Winter actually just requires us to be lvl 4. we CAN already work on it, and presumably the killing ritual we'd have to do for it would give us scraps. We're at 1/4, and have a Winter artifact for the second scrap, so we COULD potentially be ready to start working on this right after studying the Winter 4 artifact.

So, depending on how many actions we can devote to preparations, we could

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Turn 21

(now): Study Winter Artifact.

Turn 22:

start doing winter sacrament actions (3 actions, 30 bits each, unknown DC but probably similar to SH Sacrament, a Winter Influence might help. IN THEORY if we got a Winter tier 4 influence AND studied the artifact we COULD rush through).

summon Forge influence (if we got a tier 4 we'd be ready to start forge actions).

work on expeditions to get more sources of scraps

Turn 23:

Study stuff from expeditions. do Winter/Forge actions.

Turn 24: We MIGHT be able to finish Lantern Sacrament

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or, in other words, in addition to

Turn 22: (Biedde Edge and Baldomare SH)

Turn 23 (Personal SH, Moth)

it's not impossible we might be able to go

Turn 24: one or two of Baldomare Lantern, Personal Forge, Personal Winter


Though this is of course the best case scenario, as we might not be able to devote THAT many actions to Sacraments, study for scraps, expeditions/book searches for scrap-sources, while also keeping up with the Names, summoning Mares and so on.

We need to be careful about our bits. We'll run out VERY quickly if we go and buy actual books from shops. We need to be efficient, which means Expeditions are usually better, and that we might be better off not using too many high level reagents as well.

 

[DelightedOne]

Biedde Edge Sacrament (1 Biedde action, 1 Velvet action. POTENTIALLY more confidant actions on AotL? I think we can do that).

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That is actually a free action for Biedde.

Biedde's Invitation: "The price has always been blood. In this case, my blood. Draw a single drop of it, and I will permit you passage."
-"Challenge" Biedde to a duel. This costs one Velvet Covers action, and is a free action for Biedde.

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Edit: Unless you were counting the max Edge Influence to make it easier.

 

[Greymere]

Turn 22:

Biedde Edge Sacrament (1 Biedde action, 1 Velvet action. POTENTIALLY more confidant actions on AotL? I think we can do that).

Baldomare SH Sacrament (1 Velvet, 1 Baldomare).

Study Moth book (and other books if we roll well enough), so we're prepared for Moth SH the following turn.

I forget if Spoiled is at good friend. if not, an action on that too)


Turn 23:

Moth Sacrament. (1 Velvet Action, Leash)

Personal Sacrament (2 Velvet actions, 1 Baldomare actions on SH influence).

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It might be better to shuffle Biedde's challenge to T23, depending on what exactly we do this turn. If we're reading the Moth book from 0 progress on T22, we're going to want at least one Lantern AotL (ideally two), and we'd probably want to have a Grail AotL on hand for Spoiled, (edit: which is a lot of Follower AP if we also want 2 Edge AotL. It's possible, I think, but it does mean we'll end up with some inefficiency because it starts eating into the Names and/or Selene's AP.)

 

[Pittauro]

That is actually a free action for Biedde.

Edit: Unless you were counting the max Edge Influence to make it easier.

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I was, yes. Let's be real, we HAVE to use it. It's a risky sacrament, technically speaking there's even a small chance he might deal 2 damage at once if he rolls high enough and we roll low enough (assuming he can't just stop himself from dealing too much damage).

The higher the combat bonus we get the safer and more likely to succeed we are. Hopefully we manage to not get damaged, or at least to not get more than 1 point of damage.

It might be better to shuffle Biedde's challenge to T23, depending on what exactly we do this turn. If we're reading the Moth book from 0 progress on T22, we're going to want at least one Lantern AotL (ideally two), and we'd probably want to have a Grail AotL on hand for Spoiled.

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Spoiled COULD be done again by Mareinette, in theory. as for Moth, we get three "book" reading points per AP, so it's also not strictly speaking necessary to have multiple AotL.

In terms of things worth studying we currently have, actually:

Books:

BOOK MOTH Level 5. "The language used in this is indecipherable. The cover, if it even has one, yields no clue about its subject. And yet, you cannot resist the urge to read it." (Requires deciphering. Progress 0/100. From an Era that is Ancient Beyond History, "-50" to deciphering rolls.)
BOOK KNOCK Level 5. "An initial survey of its pages reveals several drawings, or perhaps instructions, on how to build bridges and maintain clocks. You suspect the book is about more than just that." (Requires deciphering. Progress 0/100. From One Era Ago, "-30" to deciphering rolls.)
BOOK, of no Lore levels. "A pile of reports, letters and maps. No doubt containing a wealth of information about the less reputable places of Manehattan. And perhaps of the treasures they hide."

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We probably want to keep the Knock 5 one as insurance for Baldomare in case we can't get a lvl 7 book in time. So we can basically use all 3 attempts on Moth 5.

If we have leftover information we can use it on the no-lore-levels book, I think... or did we already use that and I forgot?
Artifacts

LANTERN Level 4 (NOT STUDIED) (CANNOT BE USED UNTIL STUDIED)
"A many-pronged instrument that can fold onto itself like a switchblade. You believe it is a measuring instrument, but you have no idea what it is meant to measure. And for some reason, it seems to work better, or at least its joints seem to yield more fluidly, when used in utter darkness."
Appraised cost: Unknown (not studied)
Special properties: Unknown (not studied)

-WINTER Level 4

-MOTH Level 3

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There MIGHT also be the Frangiclave, though we don't know if we'll get to keep it. For all we know it might be destroyed in the process, or maybe Axe will need to keep it to keep the chains at bay, stopping them from retrapping her if she can't just destroy them once and for all.

Lantern 4 and Winter 4 are useful and help with Sacraments too, and Lantern 4 helps with scrying and summoning Mares, obviously.

Moth 3 is mostly there just in case we have a leftover point. It's likely a decent-ish artifact for its effect, it can help in expeditions...

 

[Greymere]

Spoiled COULD be done again by Mareinette, in theory. as for Moth, we get three "book" reading points per AP, so it's also not strictly speaking necessary to have multiple AotL.

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Technically yes, but that would require the thread to vote for it, so we'll see. And yes, technically we don't need multiple, but considering that, if using all three reading actions on the book, it's a ~67% chance w/o an AotL, ~80% with one, and ~90% with two (all of these assuming we have our reroll), and that Moth is what's keeping us from getting sunblasted, I'd rather be safe than sorry if we go for the book. Which seems likely, since the last time we gambled on Mansus exploration giving us a specific Lore scrap we managed to fail at finding a Winter scrap in the Blank Plains.

 

[Pittauro]

Technically yes, but that would require the thread to vote for it, so we'll see. And yes, technically we don't need multiple, but considering that, if using all three reading actions on the book, it's a ~67% chance w/o an AotL, ~80% with one, and ~90% with two (all of these assuming we have our reroll), and that Moth is what's keeping us from getting sunblasted, I'd rather be safe than sorry if we go for the book. Which seems likely, since the last time we gambled on Mansus exploration giving us a specific Lore scrap we managed to fail at finding a Winter scrap in the Blank Plains.

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at that point it might be more efficient to just do TWO study actions, and if we finish the Moth book earlier we just pivot to something else (secondary artifacts and books, for example). It kinda depends on if we have other things the Followers could use their actions on at that point.

 

[IronHydra]

Given everything we've seen about Biede, I don't trust him at all, hell; I trust him less than Marinette because at least with her we know what she wants and what she's trying to get us to do.

He's going to wait until just the right moment, we won't we ready for it, and he'll likely throw us under the bus some way, I'm not interested in allowing him any chances to fuck us.

I'm more invested in getting those Moth books, getting the Sacrament for that, then maybe Lantern or Grail, do the Spoiled Rich stuff. The perhaps after that can come SH.

Would we be able to take an action to look into Softy's aid group? It's something to keep an eye on. I don't even remember if Velvet knows about it in just the normal sense, but I'm sure she'd love to know what it's turnt into.

Spoiler: Pretty please 🥺

Wolf Sacrament anyone who agrees?

 

[Shaper47]

We'd need to find enough lvl >5 books AND artifacts, study them with all the required APs necessary, all in 3 turns or so? I don't think we can find that many high ranked books and artifacts, or that we can afford them.

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Selene scrying with artifacts auto possess with a bonus of + 70.

It costs 90 bits for Selene to scry 3 times.

Now remember how hard the expedition was to get a level 6 Book.

Not to mention how studying is not a problem if we read the books while we have a Lantern influence.

So yes it's easily possible to do.

 

[Limabot]

Given everything we've seen about Biede, I don't trust him at all, hell; I trust him less than Marinette because at least with her we know what she wants and what she's trying to get us to do.

He's going to wait until just the right moment, we won't we ready for it, and he'll likely throw us under the bus some way, I'm not interested in allowing him any chances to fuck us.

I'm more invested in getting those Moth books, getting the Sacrament for that, then maybe Lantern or Grail, do the Spoiled Rich stuff. The perhaps after that can come SH.

Would we be able to take an action to look into Softy's aid group? It's something to keep an eye on. I don't even remember if Velvet knows about it in just the normal sense, but I'm sure she'd love to know what it's turnt into.

Spoiler: Pretty please 🥺

Wolf Sacrament anyone who agrees?

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Velvet seems to be aware of the Therapy group to some degree, and encouraged Softy to follow her heart as to what to do with it. However, she doesn't seem aware of what it's turned into since then.

 

[Pittauro]

It costs 90 bits for Selene to scry 3 times.

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keep in mind 90 bits is not little, when we also have to pay for Biedde, possibly for Mareinette, for Mares-in-the-light, for influence rituals, for reagents, for Winter/Forge Sacraments if we go for those, for expeditions (including the ones we'd unlock!)...

but you're right, it IS doable. We'd have to give up something else though. Also maybe we might want to have Selene search for expeditions without scrying? not sure if the SH artifact would help her though. Probably not.

 

[Solace2117]

Selene scrying with artifacts auto possess with a bonus of + 70.

It costs 90 bits for Selene to scry 3 times.

Now remember how hard the expedition was to get a level 6 Book.

Not to mention how studying is not a problem if we read the books while we have a Lantern influence.

So yes it's easily possible to do.

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That makes a lot of assumptions about cost and ease of potential expeditions. I believe we specifically scried for the easiest one to get last time. Possible, yes, but I'd argue the cost are greater then you think and it's much less efficient considering everything else that needs done.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Given how we are likely to take at least 1 wound in the fight with Biedde, I would prefer to get it out of the way ASAP so we don't get surprised much later. The Wolf sacrament is not going to have any traction behind it. It would be a good idea to take Baldomare's SH sacrament next turn as well to prepare us for rushing our personal SH sacrament later. We can also finish setting up Spoiled Rich too.

Other concerns we ought to remember:
We DID promise to spend 1 AP on Soft Sweeps next turn. We ought to remember that.
We need to have that LV7 book scryed, and I expect it to be a far away, 3 actions kind of expedition. That is a lot of money, especially as we probably shouldn't send Axe alone. Speaking of which:

Specifically, later during this turn (as in, not right now) you will be offered these options:



[Would you like to search for a Unique Book for Baldomare?]

[-] Have Baldomare scry for a Level 7 book (costs one Baldomare action from Turn 22)

[-] Have Jade scry for a Level 7 book (costs one Jade Whistle action from turn 22)

[-] Have somepony search for a Level 7 book (WRITE IN who, and how)

[-] No, I wouldn't have done it this turn anyways. (Nothing will happen)



Just so you all understand, no true "time-warping" shenanigans will happen. That was a figure of expression. But, mechanically, I will allow you all to tap into next turn's resources. I "stole" from you the chance to do it this turn, so if you feel strongly enough about it you will be given the option to do it this turn, at the expense of a follower action from the next turn.

But for now, no voting needs to occur. This is just an informational for your benefit.

That is all.

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@OurLadyOfWires does this offer still hold? If so, this upcoming vote would also be the best time for it. And I'd suggest having Jade do this over Baldomare given sacrament planning.
If we can get this done, then we can move on whatever expedition it is by next turn.
In terms of prep for All In, Heart lore is currently our weakest field. Our best options to improve it fast is a search for LV3 books and Marinette's influence.
We may want to stack the battle further in our favor with more Edge AotL.

Overall, I think a general shell for actions next turn that most of us will agree with is:
Baldomare - Her SH Sacrament
Biedde - Edge Influence
Jade - Used up this turn to scry for the LV7 book.
Axe - (Hopefully) expedition leader for the LV7 book.
SOCIAL - Spoiled Rich
1 - Baldomare's SH Sacrament
2 - Biedde's Edge Sacrament
3 - Soft Sweeps' request.
4 - Inevitable FO

 

[Greymere]

Axe - (Hopefully) expedition leader for the LV7 book.

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I imagine we might want to scry-scout this before sending DoA after it? Or send someone to scout in person. I'd guess there'd be some actual difficulty involved, and DoA may not be able to faceroll through it on her own.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

I imagine we might want to scry-scout this before sending DoA after it? Or send someone to scout in person. I'd guess there'd be some actual difficulty involved, and DoA may not be able to faceroll through it on her own.

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If we want it scryed on the same turn, then the best option would be a +70 Selene on the same turn, which would require the Lv4 artifact studied now. We could also just have Selene flat out scout it personally, but there may be narrative constraints on that. Otherwise, the expedition is gonna be on Turn 23 as we'd expect.

 

[IronHydra]

The Wolf sacrament is not going to have any traction behind it.

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Really? Why not? Cause there's a handful of y'all that are super vocal against it? I'm kinda tired of everyone screeching about how terrible it is "Ohh Wolf is sooo bad it's gonna ruin the world" when we've already done so in such a massive manner. As long as we don't hit all 7 of 7, or don't do it until the end.

I want Velvet to Win, just as much as y'all, but I want something that's actually interesting, not just constantly taking the slow and measured pace that has a pretty decent chance of hurting us cause we didn't want to take a risk.

I get playing safe for some things, but anytime it gets brought up it's the same few people making post after post crying out against it, and the people who would possibly be for it either don't stop by the thread often enough, or get fearmongered, beat back into never wanting to vote for it cause they'll all get shouted down and outvoted.

I know that I want it, I know there are at least a few people that aren't completely intimated or afraid of doing it.

I don't want the Divided to win either, but I want a Wolf-flavored Velvet to win. Not sorry.

 

[Pittauro]

Overall, I think a general shell for actions next turn that most of us will agree with is:
Baldomare - Her SH Sacrament
Biedde - Edge Influence
Jade - Used up this turn to scry for the LV7 book.
Axe - (Hopefully) expedition leader for the LV7 book.
SOCIAL - Spoiled Rich
1 - Baldomare's SH Sacrament
2 - Biedde's Edge Sacrament
3 - Soft Sweeps' request.
4 - Inevitable FO

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sounds about right. with more actions likely to be split between FOs and Studying, depending on how many we can get. We kinda need to study the Moth book if we want to do the Moth Sacrament soon anyway.

If all goes well, next turn we SHOULD get both Baldomare SH and Biedde Edge sacraments.

The turn after that (23), if all continues to go well, probably Personal SH and Moth.

and on turn 24, depending on preparations, there's a CHANCE we might be able to work on Forge, Winter or Lantern Sacraments...

Really? Why not? Cause there's a handful of y'all that are super vocal against it? I'm kinda tired of everyone screeching about how terrible it is "Ohh Wolf is sooo bad it's gonna ruin the world" when we've already done so in such a massive manner. As long as we don't hit all 7 of 7, or don't do it until the end.

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It's kind of the opposite. there's a super vocal minority IN FAVOUR of it, a vocal minority against it (mostly in reaction to the minority for it), and most others that I THINK are against it but I can't be sure because they haven't talked about it.

and yes, every single RA we've taken has convinced me more and more that we should only take them as a last resort. as we DO have Edge and Winter alternatives, it's not a last resort.

Now, personal opinions will vary. PERSONALLY, The only reason I voted for breaking the door was expediency and because I thought it would be difficult to convince the thread to go for quick murders as the alternative. I'd probably vote against it if I got a second chance.

I THINK I'd still vote for the RA that killed the Master, all things considered... though of course it would have been even better if we never got into that situation.

Soft wasn't a choice. Surviving the meeting with the Wolf wasn't a choice. So those two don't really count.

I don't want the Divided to win either, but I want a Wolf-flavored Velvet to win. Not sorry.

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eh, you can want what you want, and vote for what you want. I don't see wolf sacraments winning though, both because many don't want to progress the wolf counter, and because even more want to keep it for ACTUAL emergencies, on the level of "we need to kill the Master/Break a Door!".

I mean, Axe's talk about what Sacraments ARE makes me even LESS interested in Wolf Sacraments. How would the Wolf change Velvet's soul in the process of giving her Sacrament?!

 

[Solace2117]

Really? Why not? Cause there's a handful of y'all that are super vocal against it? I'm kinda tired of everyone screeching about how terrible it is "Ohh Wolf is sooo bad it's gonna ruin the world" when we've already done so in such a massive manner. As long as we don't hit all 7 of 7, or don't do it until the end.

I want Velvet to Win, just as much as y'all, but I want something that's actually interesting, not just constantly taking the slow and measured pace that has a pretty decent chance of hurting us cause we didn't want to take a risk.

I get playing safe for some things, but anytime it gets brought up it's the same few people making post after post crying out against it, and the people who would possibly be for it either don't stop by the thread often enough, or get fearmongered, beat back into never wanting to vote for it cause they'll all get shouted down and outvoted.

I know that I want it, I know there are at least a few people that aren't completely intimated or afraid of doing it.

I don't want the Divided to win either, but I want a Wolf-flavored Velvet to win. Not sorry.

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You can vote for what you want, but it's been available for a long time and hasn't got much traction. If we weren't at 3 I'd be more open, but I lack interest in Velvet being more wolf then pony and I think many worry about the effect on Soft Sweep.
Also I don't see a lot of people getting shouted down. People can disagree with you. It's an interactive quest, if you're getting outvoted that means more people disagree. Conversations can get heated sometimes, the writings good, the choices compelling. If more people agree with you they can argue and vote for it. It's happened numerous times before like the last Vote or the Master vote.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Really? Why not? Cause there's a handful of y'all that are super vocal against it? I'm kinda tired of everyone screeching about how terrible it is "Ohh Wolf is sooo bad it's gonna ruin the world" when we've already done so in such a massive manner. As long as we don't hit all 7 of 7, or don't do it until the end.

I want Velvet to Win, just as much as y'all, but I want something that's actually interesting, not just constantly taking the slow and measured pace that has a pretty decent chance of hurting us cause we didn't want to take a risk.

I get playing safe for some things, but anytime it gets brought up it's the same few people making post after post crying out against it, and the people who would possibly be for it either don't stop by the thread often enough, or get fearmongered, beat back into never wanting to vote for it cause they'll all get shouted down and outvoted.

I know that I want it, I know there are at least a few people that aren't completely intimated or afraid of doing it.

I don't want the Divided to win either, but I want a Wolf-flavored Velvet to win. Not sorry.

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See, the thing is I'm not really against the Wolf Sacrament myself. I'd want to have at least 3 Winter lore points before we do it so that it would pay immediate dividends, but I'd consider it.

However, most people here don't want to voluntarily take the Wolf option. Yes, we've done a few Wolf options including "Surviving," "Getting around the need to debate, decide, and murder for the Tribal Door when even now we still haven't killed an Earth Pony," and "save Cadance." In other words, the Wolf is our nuclear option that gets us exactly what we want: our get out of jail free card. The emergency button. If we have other options for power, such as an Edge sacrament that's right there, and with Winter being one of our more comfortable lores for All In between Selene and Velvet, it's worthwhile to take those first to keep our few bullets in reserve.

Furthermore, the Wolf actively affects the world more and more with every Regrettable Action. We are incredibly unlikely to block off the Glory ending path at this point through it, but there's also a desire among the players to leave the world of Equestria a place we'd still want to live in rather than have to live in.

Furthermore, the Wolf actively nurtures the seed inside Soft Sweeps with every action. She is the leader of a burgeoning Wolf cult, the final child, so every action we take with the Wolf is one where we're teaching Soft Sweeps that she should act more in line with his maxims. She is our daughter, so we won't be able to do much about that, much less her, as she is our daughter. Our actions will speak louder than anything we could say. Family is a malus and we took Soft Sweeps as family.

Again, personally, I wouldn't mind the Wolf Sacrament myself, but there's not enough alarm nor reason for it to ever get traction among voters given all these factors. I like Wolf Softy, and I like how the Wolf interacts in this quest, but the players are trying very hard to avoid feeding the fire and growing it further, so it is a fruitless effort on this action.

 

[IronHydra]

. I like Wolf Softy, and I like how the Wolf interacts in this quest, but the players are trying very hard to avoid feeding the fire and growing it further, so it is a fruitless effort on this action.

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Like Pitt said, I don't think it's a majority, I believe it's just that minority being loud, and pushing against it so harshly, that it drives off those who would potentially vote for it.

And like you said, you would, but there seems to be those that are trying hard not to. So if there was a more vocal amount of people for it, you would vote in favor then?

I don't want to just give up on what I think would be pretty awesome for the story, just because there are those who'll be against it.

Now yeah, it'll harm Equestria, that sucks, but we can do our best to make the world a better place ourselves through in-character actions, like how we've been building up Ponyville. If we can manage it, help Celestia get back to a better space of mind, and with her and Selene working in concert, they can be a balm against any of the badness that comes with the Wolf.

Now, being afraid of what the Divided would do for the Sacrament is valid to an extent, but I doubt he'd be able to completely and fundamentally change so much of her, they're more about chipping away things right? I could only see some of our empathy of non-entities going down, for those who are against us. Or make us more willing to be vicious or aggressive, which I believe we need tbh, Velvet is far too passive until she's already been struck or she's forced to do something.

So, if anyone's willing to also vote in that direction

 

[Arrkhon]

Personally I'm interested in Mareinette sacrament, she's a fun character and befriending her would lead to more interactions with her, not to mention that we really ought to pay her back for all the ways she saved our ass so far instead of being a dick, she doesn't even have a proper sleeping place for example!

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

It's still easily possible, especially with Selene having 3 AP.

Though I hope DoV gets more AP now that she's free.

Though it could be that the scrying works the same as a book search in context and we can just have Velvet buy some of the books or steal them.

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Stealing books from houses and such are Short Expeditions, or at least they were waaaaaaaaay back in the early days of the quest.

Like Pitt said, I don't think it's a majority, I believe it's just that minority being loud, and pushing against it so harshly, that it drives off those who would potentially vote for it.

And like you said, you would, but there seems to be those that are trying hard not to. So if there was a more vocal amount of people for it, you would vote in favor then?

I don't want to just give up on what I think would be pretty awesome for the story, just because there are those who'll be against it.

Now yeah, it'll harm Equestria, that sucks, but we can do our best to make the world a better place ourselves through in-charater actions, like how we've been building up Ponyville. If we can manage it, help Celestia get back to a better space of mind, and with her and Selene working in concert, they can be a balm against any of the badness that comes with the Wolf.

Now, being afraid of what the Divided would do for the Sacrament is valid to an extent, but I doubt he'd be able to completely and fundamentally change so much of her, they're more about chipping away things right? I could only see some of our empathy of non-entities going down, for those who are against us. Or make us more willing to be vicious or aggressive, which I believe we need tbh, Velvet it far too passive until she's already been struck or she's forced to do something.

So, if anyone's willing to also vote in that direction

Click to shrink...

If it wasn't a majority then we'd already have the Wolf Sacraments. They've been available ever since we came across the Carcass of the Wolf-Divided. As for how the Wolf could change Velvet, he could always make her self-hatred worse. He's very big on self-hatred. Perhaps carve away at the love of friends, make us more obsessed with just family, he's big on obsession too. He's an Hour defining the Winter and Edge portions of our understanding of reality while staining our soul on top, he gets quite a lot to work with.

 

[Maer]

~~Snip~~
Now, being afraid of what the Divided would do for the Sacrament is valid to an extent, but I doubt he'd be able to completely and fundamentally change so much of her, they're more about chipping away things right?
~~Snip~~

Click to shrink...

Sacraments reshape the Soul. Knock burned away to make a new shape. Other Lores might be different. And it would be extremely easy to see something horrifically vital be stripped away. Simply…

Remove Velvet's ability to see people who aren't family or friends as anything more than tools.
OR
Remove her ability to connect with new people.
OR
Remove her ability to empathize with the pain of others.
OR
Weaken her ability to love.
OR
Remove her inherent viewing of other Ponies as 'people'.

There are many, MANY ways to remove a single thing, or weaken or reshape a tiny piece of a soul. And a soul is BY DEFINITION the most Fundamental part of a person. So could a sacrament change a fundamental part of you? Yes.

Why didn't it change Velvet with Axe?
Because it changed how she viewed the world, and made her soul a key.

Why do we not worry about other Sacraments?
Because they're either VELVET'S Sacrament, or someone we don't mind becoming more like. The rare exceptions are with Grail. We dislike BOTH options.

The Wolf Divided will reshape her Soul to make her more like himself. In whatever fashion that takes.


I am not okay with this. I hate it. I personally am very against the idea. RA's do the same thing. I wish we'd done our Winter Sacrament and hoped that it would count for the Tribal Door. but we didn't. I USED to think I was okay with the Sacraments, IF we had free RA's, but then we found out what EXACTLY they do.

I now hate the Sacrament ideas for the SAME reason I hate the RA's.

So no. I will vote for no option that involves choosing The Wolf. Because I hate the Wolf Divided and EVERYTHING it represents, and I will never willingly choose to make our character be more like it. Not when there is ANY other option for saving the world. Anything is better than nothing, but EVERYTHING is better than The Wolf, EXCEPT Nothing.

But that's My take. I don't often talk about it, so I think I count as one of those that aren't in the so called 'vocal minority' that are against The Wolf. I just hate it.

 

[Arrkhon]

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

 

[Maer]

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

Click to shrink...

Personally? With his whole deal being that he is permanently 'enslaved' To the Hour He serves? I'm not, but it's easier/better than the only other option we have.

 

[Greymere]

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

Click to shrink...

Apparently every single pony's personal Edge Sacrament is the same, and Biedde's a mortal ascendant, so... I don't think it'd ultimately matter if we did it ourselves or got the invitation from Biedde. If it's the same personal Sacrament for everyone, then it'd also be the same understanding and power being carved, I'd presume.

If people decide they'd rather spend the time to find an hunt a worthy opponent, I don't really care tho.

 

[DelightedOne]

-Snip-

Click to shrink...

You said everything I had in mind and some more.

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

Click to shrink...

It is either Biedde, going without it or try to kill Comet Feet(or Mareinette, but I doubt we would win).

Apparently every single pony's personal Edge Sacrament is the same, and Biedde's a mortal ascendant, so... I don't think it'd ultimately matter if we did it ourselves or got the invitation from Biedde.

Click to shrink...

Are all the mortal Edge Sacraments really the same or is it just the method?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

Click to shrink...

Of course we do, we're the head of the Secret Police on behalf of a regime, the only way the Colonel would be more favorably on-side is if we had kept our horrific scarring.

Alternatively we could try the Comet Feet approach I guess: learn of a worthy foe we wouldn't mind killing (albeit via scry in our case), grab an Influence, stock up on AotLs, and proceed to murder-raid them.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

So like, do we really want to trust Biedde with the sacrament after we learned that it reshapes our soul?

Click to shrink...

I've got a pretty good idea of how it would reshape our soul from my previous analysis.

Biedde is pretty clearly talking about being pawns to the Corrivality, the rules of the world itself. Biedde just knows his role in that (and as it so haapens, Biedde's second lore is Moth, the lore of change).

Click to shrink...

Of course we do, we're the head of the Secret Police on behalf of a regime, the only way the Colonel would be more favorably on-side is if we had kept our horrific scarring.

Click to shrink...

As far as Edge is concerned, regardless of which Sacrament we undertake, we must accept the Corrivality as a fundamental part of ourself. We're somewhat in line with Biedde as is stands, so this is really just affirming something that we've long been playing our part in as Talon Tiger Dino states.