Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Demilich]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[moonlock]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[IronHydra]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[keykigdom]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[Pittauro]

"Although, I have to ask… what's the deal with you and that pegasus?" he asks, turning his face sideways to look at you.

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uh. We never told him about Soft Sweeps? Weird.

Unless he's somehow commenting on Comet Feet, I suppose, but that feels unlikely. he's been... busy with Fluttershy these last few days.

There is nothing else to say, because there is nothing that can be done about it.

That is just… life.

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Unless you reach Glory. But it's kind of implied that the number limit might not be a decision by the Hours, but more of a deeper Law even they can't fight against.

If it's not... I suppose nothing stops Velvet from making a LOT of Longs and Names... But I doubt it's that simple.

"I wish… I wish I had some great secret, that I was hiding. You see, some of the boys talk, every now and then. Some of my hirelings talk, and they joke, and they whisper here and there, about Vellum. They say that we look too much alike for it to be a coincidence. They see the color of his fur and they say it's almost a perfect match of mine. And if I were to be abundantly honest… I wish that was true. I wish he was some secret, bastard son that I raised, while pretending he wasn't my own. I wish…"

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Do remember that two out of three of Velvet's daughters are NOT by blood.

It's not necessarily the same thing, but... it could be, if he wanted to.

You wonder if your uncle knows whose chair it is, that he is sitting on. You wonder if he picked this very spot tonight as a coincidence, or if he was invited here by some presence that even now you know is watching you two.

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mh... I suppose that if the criminal steps down, isn't that a similar result to the criminal dying? Biedde might have predicted that.

And ever since then, you were oddly aware that Biedde never really crossed paths with your uncle again.

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that sounds more merciful than I expected from him, really.

"But the worst thing I did, the one that haunts me the most, was what I did… to you."

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oh?

"… you probably don't remember it. But one day, you asked me to take you away. One day, you asked me to take you with me, back to wherever I lived when I wasn't in Canterlot. One day, you told me you felt like I was the only pony who still loved you, and you asked me if I couldn't be your new father instead. And you know what I did…?"

The answer is obvious.

But even so, the weight his words carry seem to almost crush him as he speaks them.

"I. Did. Nothing."

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...

ouch.

That's not what I expected... but it makes a lot of sense.

"My whole life, I was the pony who did your father's dirty work. To this day, I am the one who he calls when something needs to happen. And even back then, as I looked you in the eye while you asked… while you begged me to do that. Even back then, I knew I could do it. I knew I should do it. Because who would stop me? Who would your father call to bring you back, if he was even interested in having you back to begin with?"

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He probably wouldn't have cared... Steppes could have gotten the daughter he's NOW wishing for, our Velvet could have gotten a family... also she probably could have become an ACTUAL Mafia princess...

"But I didn't. I let you stay there. Alone, in that house, in that room, nursing a scar that would never heal, and slowly withering away into a… No, what I did was even worse than that. Because you might not remember it, but that was the last time I ever visited you. For years, even. That was the last time I saw you, until a few weeks before your arranged marriage. Because I couldn't… even muster the courage to see you and…"

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...that is even worse. SO MUCH WORSE!

He WILLINGLY left his niece to suffer for YEARS when she BEGGED for help...

Yeah. It's definitely a big crime. and a deeply personal one.

Because you don't remember much from that period. In truth, your memory stops a bit before you got hurt, and your closest memory after that is from your days in college, when you were already a grown mare.

Everything in between is… quiet. Flashes of isolation, and piles of book, and nights spent awake when your twisted leg hurt so much you couldn't even cry yourself to sleep.

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oh, I didn't know she had removed quite THAT much of her memories.

You wonder if, despite his many crimes, he can still be called good.

You wonder if, despite his good intentions, he can be called anything but evil.

Because what is a pony, and what is a life, if not the result of their actions?

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oh, he's evil. No two ways about that, you can't be a crime boss doing questionable things (we know he had AT LEAST people beaten for money, and we just don't know if he also had them killed but it's definitely possible), but even evil people have loved ones, their own principles or rules, and their regrets, or some extenuating circumstances.

...At least most of them, I think. We admittedly can never be sure it applies to everyone, and I won't say true evil people without redeeming qualities can't exist.

The words "forgiveness" and "resentment" carry very complex meanings, when you really think about it. And while they are not being brushed over or callously thrown here, I must also explain what exactly each choice means.

For the sake of this vote, "forgiveness" refers to actively and physically telling Velvet Steppes that you forgive him. It is the act of saying "I forgive you", either through words or some other mean. It may be a lie, but it is still the decision to act as if you forgive him.

Conversely, "resentment" in this vote refers to how you feel. It is the determination of whether, in your heart of hearts, you truly do not carry any ill will towards him.

You can tell him that you forgive him, and still hate him. You can tell him that what he did cannot be forgiven, but still not hold any spite for him.

Still, you must decide between "yes" or "no" for the two options of how you will act (forgiveness) and how you will feel (resentment).

Since these are the only two criteria, and since each criterion can only be answered with a "yes" or a "no", a total of four options exist.

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mh...

here's my two cents. Each option is deeply different from the other ones. depending on the combination, the REASON for why we're forgiving, not forgiving, resenting or not resenting can change.

[] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

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We tell him we forgive him, AND we actually DO for real in our heart of hearts.

The obvious read to me here is that Velvet decides to have mercy on him, and finds it in herself to not resent him... and if I had to think of why, the reason would have to be her family.

Steppes was not there for Velvet Covers when she needed him... BUT she was there for her daughters, BOTH the one by blood AND the one by choice (Selene), and he ALSO offered some advice and support to Stormchaser (remember their talk in front of the fire, so many turns ago?)

Velvet would deeply understand that her uncle wronged him... BUT he's already blaming himself, AND he helped and showed love to her ACTUAL family.

And isn't acting in favour of her daughters and husband the best way to get on Velvet's good side? I'd say she could find it in her to forgive him simply because she KNOWS he loves Silky and Selene, and THEY love him.

And also, for all of his mistakes, he's still the only member of her "noble" family who still tried, if late, to be actual family. The good doesn't remove the bad, but the bad also doesn't remove the good.

[] You will tell him that you forgive him. But deep down, you still resent him.

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This has two potential reads in my opinion.

The least likely is that we're lying to him because... we're planning to do something to him. To take revenge. This feels kind of out of character for Velvet, so I'm mostly ignoring the possibility.


The second one and more likely, is that, just like I said above, she understands that his uncle has made mistakes, that he regrets them, and probably that he loves and is loved by her daughters... and for that, he shows him mercy and tells him she forgives him.

But, deep down, she still resents him. She hasn't forgotten the pain and suffering, and it poisons all other feelings...

Except that, again, she might also pity him. And/or she might think of her daughters, who love him and are loved by him.


For that she'll hide the resentment deep in her heart, and grant him a measure of mercy. He needs not know he's not forgiven, It's an ugly feeling Velvet will keep for herself, as to not poison his relationship with his daughters, and as not to make his old age even sadder.

[] You will not forgive him. But deep down, you do not resent him either.

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this is, I suppose, more of a Velvet going for "justice". What he did cannot be forgiven. It should NOT be forgiven.

But emotions are not rational. We can tell him he was wrong, he did wrong, and that he doesn't deserve forgiveness... and yet, Velvet still does not have it in herself to hate him.

The question becomes WHY she tells him he's not forgiven, while she does not resent him.

Maybe it's because she thinks such a thing can't be forgiven, so she won't tell him that out of principle.

Maybe she hopes he'll use this lack of forgiveness to do better.

Maybe she WANTS to hate him, but can't.

I think this is the option with the most potential alternative reads for WHY we go with it.

@OurLadyOfWires have you already decided how each option will be interpreted, or are you going to use thread discussion (or a follow up vote) to decide?

[] You do not forgive him. And deep down, you resent him.

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this is a more open and colder form of revenge and spite.

"How could you, Steppes?! How could you betray me like that? You don't deserve to be forgiven, and I won't lie to make you feel better".

This is, I imagine, the option where we actually cut him of from our life, and the life of our daughters. This is a Velvet which prioritizes her feeling of hurt and her thirst for payback, her desire to hurt him, to actually not hold back.

It's... regrettable, in a way, isn't it? To the point I wouldn't be surprised if a hint or two of the Wolf slipped through here. Velvet IS stained, after all...

I'm not saying this is an ACTUAL Regrettable Action, honestly. But it's Velvet giving into her worst side. She feels hate for him, AND decides she has a right to express that hate to hurt him. She'd decide to kick him while he's down, and it doesn't matter if he deserves it, this will only generate more suffering.

For herself. For Steppes. For Silky and Selene.

 

[Pittauro]

She...
The Velvet I see and I think of when I think Velvet...

She could not resent Stepps. His inaction brought Stormy into her life. To resent that is .. unthinkable.
But I do not see her forgiving. She...

Velvet is a mare defined by her choices. Her actions. And yes, her inaction.
But every hand that reached out. Every voice that cried suffering. Every wish and every prary. She tried.

He didn't. And he ran.

There... Is a phrase.
"I do not forgive. But I do forget"
And that's what Velvet has done. She cannot forgive. But she has forgotten. The chains are his, and she would not hold them to him. But she would not force him to let go. Not when she looks at herself.

Do not forgive. But forget.

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I've only ever heard the opposite of that phrase. "I forgive but I do not forget", which basically means you'll remember this happened in case it happens again. That you're willing to give a second chance, but won't forget a second chance was needed.

That said, your phrase works too.

To not forgive, but to forget... you won't forgive the crime, but you're still willing to associate with the "criminal", so to speak.

He should keep in mind what he's done, and not feel like it's been made up for... but that while we haven't forgiven him for what he did wrong, we still love him.

Problem is, that the "resent" part is mentioned to be how we feel but NOT what we tell him.

So, would Velvet make him thing we hate him even if she does not with that vote? That's something I'm a bit concerned about.

I don't know, considering the flavor text of the ritual...


This really seems like something Velvet should do herself.

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...so we're building our fourth daughter then?!

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. But deep down, you still resent him.
[X] You will not forgive him. But deep down, you do not resent him either.



Oh that s fun
"...Right after the turn we went out to drink with her? The turn we do not remeber?
The the turn we woke up in bed with her? that turn?"

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Totally a coincidence. It's not like two mares could make a daughter. It would take some... weird magic... maybe Alicorn Magic...

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[DelightedOne]

...so we're building our fourth daughter then?!

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Considering this part of the story

You don't… really… know, what you are looking at. But you also do.

It was a clock, but it wasn't.

It was a servant, but it wasn't.

It was a son, but not the one She wished to give Him.

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We are probably having a fourth son(and the first one we don't hate!).

 

[Alan975]

and the first one we don't hate!

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>: (

 

[ses]

Considering this part of the story

We are probably having a fourth son(and the first one we don't hate!).

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I saw that but considering that Joy is gratuitously capitalized in the description of our forge scrap gain when the canon CS line from the Forge Masterpiece it's cribbing from doesn't capitalize it, and the fact that Velvet is letting fate guide the reforging and there's very much a daughter/son divide between the good daughters and the evil sons (until we reach the final one, and even then the themeing is so strong that it's described as "Seven Sons... well technically six sons and one daughter but same difference), I expect the Forge Name to be a daughter named Joy.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

For my opinion I think people are severely not getting what Mareinette wants out of friendship with Velvet.

That being to change the rules of the Mansus to get rid of the Alukites system, and removing the Crime of the Sky. Something I will point out was beyond even the Sun-In-Splendor the strongest of the Hours.

I highly doubt that Velvet as she is even ascended to sole remaining Hour, will be able to accomplish altering the Mansus to alter/destroy the existence of the Crime of the Sky.

 

[DelightedOne]

For my opinion I think people are severely not getting what Mareinette wants out of friendship with Velvet.

That being to change the rules of the Mansus to get rid of the Alukites system, and removing the Crime of the Sky. Something I will point out was beyond even the Sun-In-Splendor the strongest of the Hours.

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Why would she want that? Being a Alukite is actually a benefit for her since she enjoys being a monster and gets to have one hoof outside of the laws of the World. And considering what she is trying to do with Velvet it is more likely she wants a new Ligeia Club or a permanent Favor from Autority.

Even in canon the drawbacks seem mostly social and with almost everything in the World not knowing the Crime exists she can pretend to be a regular monster instead of a Criminal.

 

[Sveta08]

The least likely is that we're lying to him because... we're planning to do something to him. To take revenge. This feels kind of out of character for Velvet, so I'm mostly ignoring the possibility.


The second one and more likely, is that, just like I said above, she understands that his uncle has made mistakes, that he regrets them, and probably that he loves and is loved by her daughters... and for that, he shows him mercy and tells him she forgives him.

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Now that the vote is quietly settled, I can say a little potentiality. One I don't think will pass, but was clear enough in my eyes.


It was for the Moth Sacrament.

There are... a great many things about Stepps that makes him symbolicly linked to that Lore. And to be changed in a way that no one save but he would know... I think he would even understand it. He would recognize it and accept it. He too knows about keeping too many secrets, and how. He would grasp the understanding of a change that none save one can now. He would... if not understand, make sense for it.

 

[Anjaxis]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Why would she want that? Being a Alukite is actually a benefit for her since she enjoys being a monster and gets to have one hoof outside of the laws of the World. And considering what she is trying to do with Velvet it is more likely she wants a new Ligeia Club or a permanent Favor from Autority.

Even in canon the drawbacks seem mostly social and with almost everything in the World not knowing the Crime exists she can pretend to be a regular monster instead of a Criminal.

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It very bad to be an Alukites they are barred from climbing the Mansus they are under the current rules forever barred from the Glory. That the equivalent of being dead, to those that desire the Glory that the same as being dead, you are forever denied the one thing you really want, forced into helping others achieve your dream.

 

[Portec]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[Bakkasama]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

Is this the most moral? No, he really shouldn't be forgiven for all the horrible crimes he has committed. But this is Velvet, who will burn the bedrock of reality for friend and family, soooooooo a-forgiving we shall go.

 

[Bakkasama]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

Is this the most moral? No, he really shouldn't be forgiven for all the horrible crimes he has committed. But this is Velvet, who will burn the bedrock of reality for friend and family, soooooooo a-forgiving we shall go.

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Luna: I misjudged you! You are a criminal! One that has hurt hundreds of ponies! Why should you be forgiven!?
Steppes: Yo mama said I could.
Luna: Well, I cant argue with thar. Pardoned it is!

 

[spiderhellian]

It was for the Moth Sacrament.

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I'm quite doubtful we'd be surprised by a Sacrament like that. Even if it was a "bonus". Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

 

[Quaxotia]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.

Given the scene leading up to it, I don't really imagine Velvet reacting differently.

 

[Nevermort]

I'm quite doubtful we'd be surprised by a Sacrament like that. Even if it was a "bonus". Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

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I am certain that taking Moth Sacrament (and any other) is its own action. Still I think any option with resent in it have potential to make Steppes a valid target for our Sacraments. It is too a reward, of a kind. Several people including me pointed out that Velvet lying to Uncle seems like Velvet at least considering some kind of revenge. I'll give it good odds that it just unlocks options to screw with Uncle in various ways like sending constables after his organization. I can kind of see being able to sacrifice him for Sacrament in potential reward table here.

 

[Sveta08]

I'm quite doubtful we'd be surprised by a Sacrament like that. Even if it was a "bonus". Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

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Nevermort has the right of it here. Pardon, should have been more clear. That is the path of "prepping" Stepps to be used for the Moth Sacrament.

 

[Zxzx24]

Luna: I misjudged you! You are a criminal! One that has hurt hundreds of ponies! Why should you be forgiven!?
Steppes: Yo mama said I could.
Luna: Well, I cant argue with thar. Pardoned it is!

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Favoritism? In a absolute monarchy? Say it ain't so!

 

[ArticulateJargon]

[X] You will not forgive him. But deep down, you do not resent him either.

 

[Waela]

[X] You will tell him that you forgive him. And deep down, you do not resent him.
[X] You will not forgive him. But deep down, you do not resent him either.