Bloodshifter
The Bio-Armor Lover
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[X] Three Dots Appearance 1 Dot Charisma.
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Smuthunter said:It's not wasted at all. We need those skills in order to be good at the things we want to do. Five dots of Occult makes us a master sorcerer and four dots of Presence is a huge boost to our ability to social-fu people. Without those things, even if we max out both Charisma and Appearance we still won't be able to get the supernatural awesomeness that comes from Presence and Occult charms.
Further, the conversion rate of BP to experience heavily favors buying skills with BP. It only costs 1 bonus point to buy a dot of Occult or Presence, but the experience cost starts at 1 and increases to ((rating x 2) - 1) for each successive dot we purchase (for those of you without calculators, that's 1 -> 3 -> 5 -> 7 -> 9 for a total of 25 experience points, or about three charms). That's experience we would much better off spending on charms this early on.
Pipeman said:Okay, I've been going through our optoins and I think we are best served with:
3 dots of Appearance (12 BP)
1 dot of Medicine (1 BP)
3 dots of Occult (3 BP)
2 dots of Presence (2 BP)
Reasoning is the following:
It is true that minmaxing at Character creation is largely preferable, but Issei's buils is all kinds of fucked up and the 3 dot limitation in Abilities doesn't help.
Given that we have all our Attributes at most at 2 or 3, we can only really max one while leaving enough BP to get desperately needed Abilities for more dice.
Combat Abilities are more or less out since we have no favoured (except dodge) and even with the 3 dot limitation buying favoured abilties with BP has a much larger advantage over buying non-favoured abilties with BP than buying favoured abilties with XP has over buying non-favoured abilties with XP.
This means buying Combat attributes is not really sensible, which leads me to conclude that getting Appearance up to 5 is the by far preferable option to maxing other Attributes.
To those who don't know this, Appearance is more or less the most important of Social Attributes, since it effectively adds your score as successes to both your defenses and attacks in socail combat while anything else just adds their score as dice to attacks and only to defenses if you're using your mental parry (which we won't).
I say effectively, because the issue is somewhat more complicated, but that is what it generally comes down to.
This would leave us with 6 more BP to spend on Favoured/Caste Abilities.
As far as I see it viable candidates were Presence, Lore, Medicine, Occult and Dodge.
Lore is all around rather useful, but honestly not quite necessary for us, so that's out.
Medicine is useful because we have someone dying here, but a single dot is enough to automatically ensure she stabilizes since she's a supernatural creature, which means I won't spend more on it.
Dodge would be useful since it is what we'll rely on, whenever we get into combat, but due to the way our defense is calculated we only get something out of it if we take two dots, which means it's suboptimal to take in a situation we need to be frugal in.
This leaves us with 5 BP left which is just enough to fill up Occult and Presence.
Occult is important for two reasons.
Firstly, it ensures we will actually be able to use the summoning thing instead of accidentally burning it by infusing something made by a creature of darkness with Glorious Solar Essence.
To be honest, this can likely easily be avoided with a stunt or not having horrible luck, but it's still somewhat noteworthy.
Secondly Occult is needed to be a competent caster, which we kind of need to be.
After all our only combat related favoured abilty is Dodge which means we might be able to avoid getting hit but will have significant difficulties hitting back, so we have to find alternative ways to be useful in combat and with us being a Twilight and all, that seems like the most sensible approach.
As for Presence, assuming we raise it and get to apply our specialty we would be able to throw 7 dice plus a stunt and up to 4 dice through the Presence Excellency which together with the high Appearance and our MDV of 6 constitutes a decent enough dicepool for some basic social combat.
It's far from perfect, but considering that we're going to be negotiating with the Occult Club pretty soon we kind of need to have something to get by and it's something we can build on.
You missed the part where Alexander confirmed that training times will be compressed when you're doing intensive training, which Issei does pretty much every spare moment that he has.Fellgar said:Compare their training times and then tell me they are not wasteful. : I rather we not work for 9 months to get our abilities up compared to the near instant power ups some skills get with some experience applied to them.
Smuthunter said:You missed the part where Alexander confirmed that training times will be compressed when you're doing intensive training, which Issei does pretty much every spare moment that he has.
Even with that taken into consideration we should prioritize things that will help us survive the fights we know we're going to get involved with -- get the skill our magic depends on pumped up as high as it can go immediately rather than betting our lives that we'll have time and experience to train our stats up later. A harem is no good if you're dead before you get to enjoy it, and social fu won't let us talk our way out of most of the battles we're going to face unless we dump a load of points into Manipulation and get a lot of good dice rolls.Fellgar said:And you still haven't done it. Cutting training times change the ratio of how long to improve things take. Some are still instant, some take weeks some take months.
So it would be instant, days and weeks in that case. In that case training times still are just as important to consider.
Larekko12 said:Isn't Occult Favored?
Can't we just buy that right up with a night of study once we get the XP
You forgot to add Pipeman to the list of people who voted for his idea. Or does it not count, because he didn't actually "[X]" it?Alexander said:Edit: wait no, Three Dots Appearance 1 Dot Charisma won. My bad: update coming...
Urgh! You're right...but considering he only proposed it before I made the voting option I am going with no, it doesn't count.Selias said:You forgot to add Pipeman to the list of people who voted for his idea. Or does it not count, because he didn't actually "[X]" it?
You must have missed the update where he defeated a bunch of thugs without any trouble. Or maybe the part where we have two dots in strength, three in dexterity, two in stamina, and a couple of charms that increase our chances in a fight. Maybe even the part where this quest is on easy mode? I would have preferred getting something other than appearance and charisma, but we won't be dying because of it.Smuthunter said:*sigh* I guess this is going to be a very short quest then. We are officially a shonen fighting hero without any shonen fighting skills.
Beating up a pack of completely normal human thugs is not an accomplishment compared to what we're going to be facing.Selias said:You must have missed the update where he defeated a bunch of thugs without any trouble. Or maybe the part where we have two dots in strength, three in dexterity, two in stamina, and a couple of charms that increase our chances in a fight. Maybe even the part where this quest is on easy mode? I would have preferred getting something other than appearance and charisma, but we won't be dying because of it.
Smuthunter said:Beating up a pack of completely normal human thugs is not an accomplishment compared to what we're going to be facing.
Wow. You just ignored everything I wrote after the first 13 words, didn't you?Selias said:You must have missed the update where he defeated a bunch of thugs without any trouble. Or maybe the part where we have two dots in strength, three in dexterity, two in stamina, and a couple of charms that increase our chances in a fight. Maybe even the part where this quest is on easy mode? I would have preferred getting something other than appearance and charisma, but we won't be dying because of it.
Nothing you said is relevant in the face of enemies like Vali and Kokabiel, or god forbid Cao-Cao and friends. Normal Exalts who expect to get in a lot of fights start with 4-5 dots in the relevant attributes plus 4 or 5 more in their combat abilities plus a spread of defensive and offensive charms, of which we have none save for a few damage-reducers. We don't even have a perfect defense for fuck's sake. We suck so fucking hard and there's no guarantee we'll have time to get better before the heavyweights start coming out of the woodwork for us.Selias said:Wow. You just ignored everything I wrote after the first 13 words, didn't you?
Good point. Too bad we can't improve Issei, or something like that..Smuthunter said:Nothing you said is relevant in the face of enemies like Vali and Kokabiel, or god forbid Cao-Cao and friends. Normal Exalts who expect to get in a lot of fights start with 4-5 dots in the relevant attributes plus 4 or 5 more in their combat abilities plus a spread of defensive and offensive charms, of which we have none save for a few damage-reducers. We don't even have a perfect defense for fuck's sake. We suck so fucking hard and there's no guarantee we'll have time to get better before the heavyweights start coming out of the woodwork for us.
:notfunny: Kinda hard to improve when you're dead, yeah. And for some reason there's a cap on how much experience we can earn via stunting, which means experience is at a premium and we have no way to boost our Occult score up to where we want it to be without sinking 25 EXP into it, so even if we do have the time we still have to burn up a lot of EXP that would be much better off being spent on charms.Selias said:Good point. Too bad we can't improve Issei, or something like that..
Alexander said:So prepare to go from "average boy" to "super-ultra-mega bishi in one night and just a bit more charismatic. ^^
I don't know much about it either, I just voted for Pipeman because it was extemely detailed and well informed.Mu-Sensei said:Which is even more funny if you consider he calls Kiba "damn handsome".
(I'm abstaining from voting because I don't know much 'bout the system, but enough of RPG to know how much a single dot/point can make of difference)
For something like two and a half scenes, yeah that's a lot. Normally you would get that much in two or three play sessions. Consider my EXP concerns mostly negated.Heaven Canceler said:[X] Make breakfast: it's been a while since you last did it.
[X] The truth: they deserve to know psychotic angels may murder them to get to you.
We have 11 XP, is that much for Exalted?
That was when she wasn't laid up in the hospital with a face full of holy damage. Most likely she hasn't gotten around to it yet.Actually, I believe Yuuma has already erased everyone who being human's memory about her at this point. So it's no need for Issei to tell his parents about Yuuma, also, they didn't ask him in Vol 1, but maybe they were fooled by Rias and forgot about it.