Pax's Alternate History Snippet repository.

[Imperator Pax]

1 July 1917

It was a madhouse this morning. There was no two ways about, and they were lucky that they'd been here and not in Xian, but it was July and well... there had been plans for finances, and looking at steel numbers coupled with a long over due conversation as they prepared to deliver to Tietsin the Australian's order.

A warning telegram had gone out before midnight. Something had been going on in Peking for the last couple of days, but it hadn't seemed like anything more than the backroom deals that had been going back and forth since march.

Then over a period of about eight hours the pieces started to fall into place. The President of the Republic had signed his name to a piece of paper that endorsed a new constitutional order... the restoration of the last Qing Emperor, the pipsqueak who lived in the forbiden city. At four am the Wu Wei corp troops secured the city, and with the help of the capital police began the process of informing by placard and criers the announcements of Imperial Restoration.

The five thousand Wu Wei Corp Troops in the capital had little trouble taking control of the city apparatus. No, the problem wasn't Peking. It wasn't even the south. It was trying to assert and ascertain authority. Who was in charge, who had the ability to exert power.

That was where the shooting started, at least so far as the shooting that made the news. Percy had managed to get in the door somehow, but he was late. "John Allen."

"Not now Percy." He shouldered past the smaller man with the rifle slung over his back, and another in his hand along with one of the tin boxes. Men all around them were girding for war. Cartridge belts slung over chests in a way that evoked another conflict.

"John Allen." The englishman protested.

"Move," Another American voice grunted and Waite shoulder checked Percival Graves out of his way without a pause. The engineer had a Lewis gun in both hands. "We got fighting to do." He snarled. Percy straightened his uniform, and seemed to slow down enough to look around at the seventy or so men in the office were busy with guns of their own.


"What are you doing?" Percy asked before realizing he was being left behind followed them back to the elevator he had presumably come up, "John Allen, Zhang Xun has positively lost his mind." The englishman's hands shook.

"Yep." Allen agreed shifting the Browning rifle he was carrying in his other hand to avoid having it smack another man with a Lewis.

"What do you mean Yep. Thats not a response." A couple of grayback ncos and officers alike turned slighted. "That's not a response John Allen. He's gone crazy."

"Pretty much." He agreed. Percy shook in growing display of ... was he losing his nerve.

"The ... the capital."

"Peking isn't our problem, Percy. Zhu is my problem."

Percy's face was starting to discolor, but he slowly processed the words, and maybe that was enough of a line for him to reel himself back in, "Well what did he do?"

"He," Or admittedly more likely someone under his command really, "Made the mistake of shooting at Cole, and the lads over there." There was a thud as the elevator came to rest on the ground floor and opened back into the foyer of the big build. "Sounds like they had an argument, we've got a couple of wounded already. I mean to make him regret that." Allen moved out with the rest following he took a right and followed that side of the building all the way to the waiting Quads with their large beds, and then looked up the color sergeant supervising the loading. "Wang how are we on time?"

"Another hour." The NCO looked apologetic. "Still gassing some of the fords, and loading ammunition."

"Get it done."

"Sir." A salute, and then the NCO commenced to yelling at the enlisted.

He moved on. Percy followed until they hit the raised platform. "What are you going to do?"

"Near as we can figure Zhang wants to control the railways to the capital, the Capital Guards look like they mustered to try and seize the northern line." that seemed like the most obvious situation. "We're going to cut the line going south before those troops get here, or they can get down to reinforce Zhu's boys in Zhengzhou, then we're going to swing and relieve Cole."

He nodded, "You're going to swing, and relieve Cullen-" He trailed off as a tractor lumbered up the ramp onto a flat car, "Oh heavens what are those."

Percy's surprise was a little absurd the transition from hydro spring recoil to hydro pneumatic shouldn't have been that much of a shock, "150 mm howitzer improved model." There were four of the monstrous guns. Descendants of the guns that had broken Bai Lang's attack on Xian three years earlier fitted with modern recoil, and new trails. Each of them had a tractor to pull them and two more tractors just for carrying wagons of ammo waiting for their turn to mount flatbeds and be tied in.

"That's them." The artillery man swung up, the red leg looked happy as he'd been. "We're gonna put some work in." Dawes slapped the englishman heartily on the shoulder. "Cao Kun is furious at Zhu Jiabao, you should hear that boy swear."

"And third division?"

"Mostly in and around Tietsin," Dawes shrugged. "he swears Duan's trying to get more people, but so long as Zhang has the eastern rail..." Then there was little way Cao Kun's main force could cross the province to the west... for any of a number of reasons.

Had Zhang known he was going to have to do that... they had really misread this whole mess. "Get this engine finished loading," He barked, "I want a phone line to the southern garrison to fill Colonel Shan in at the Bashan base area." Then there would getting ahold of the rest of his staff. "I want a meeting of the staff officers comprised on the car as soon as we are underway." Runners went to run, someone would have to phone the southern command... and then have to wait for the duty officer there to fetch... "Percy if you're coming, go find a seat on the train. I have things to do." There was too much to do, the excitement around the yard reminded him of when they had shipped from New York heading for the west, or even when they had departed San Francisco bay for the Philippines the first time... or when he'd stood on the train with the Japanese to observe their war with the Russians... he'd been here before.
--
They had stowed Percy off, two cars down, it had been almost tempting to ship with the second train, but the risked a bigger hullaballoo. "I'm taking a battalion from second," Waite stated and using a pointer to move along the map, "Cover this frontage here, if we don't make contact immediately, I'll drag up breastworks along this eight hundred yards, we'll dig in and throw along barbed wire and that should stop a charge."

"You're thinking cavalry?"

"Most likely. Still with the Wu Wei corp included if the capital troops have swapped over there must be close to eleven thousand troops going along with this 'Restoration'." He replied, and that was just the troops they knew were involved "I don't know what Zhu thinks he's doing."

The report of lancers was, borderline absurd in this day and age, but there was the chance Zhu intent was to show the flag and not actually commit to some fool expression of gallantry on north china's plains. The cherry wood table in the dining car had had one of the survey maps thrown over it, which had the advantage of up to date, and modern scaled topographic coverage of Zhili and the surrounding countryside.

"I've the question whether Zhu is slow, or if just doesn't know what he's doing?"

Allen turned to glance to Dawes, "How do you figure?"

"What I'm saying is the shooting in Zhengzhou started, what two hours ago. Zhang started throwing banners up at four am this morning, and he put his Wu Wei corp on the eastern rail line that stops anyone from coming in from tietsin." There were nods of acknowledgement, which seemed to have been the general disposition of troops that they knew for sure were under Zhang's direct command command. The old Qing style battalions though, who had admittedly been quick to side with Zhang's manchu restoration had started acting a couple hours later... but they hadn't been as fast to move anywhere, at least not until after daylight.

As nominal civilian head of the province Zhu had battalions under his command, and had attempted according to the wire to seize the rail line. "It looks like they're trying to secure the approaches to the capital."

"Right, which is what it probably is." Dawes agreed, "I think Zhu is aping what he thinks Zhang is doing without understanding why Zhang does it." The artilleryman swept a couple wood figures around the map, "He has moved his maxim guns and tried to cut the rail line, now Cole doesn't think he was after the mortars or other stuff we're shipping to the Australians, but Zhengzhou's way south of anywhere else that Zhu can order troops."

... and if he had tried it then he would have probably started a row with either Cao Kun ordinarily... or since Cao was in Tietsin, one of his subordinates in 3rd​ division. ... but of course Cao had taken his division with him to Tietsin. "I suppose the real question really boils down to the disposition of the penny packets Zhu has spread out." There were infantry battalions, really more like large companies at Zhengzhou, there were the reported cavalry at Baoding. "What about your redlegs?"

Dawes pointed to a hill to the northwest about four miles behind Waite's proposed breastworks, "I"ll encamp my people there, and we'll run lines, and dig the howitzers in, the battery will have elevation to cover the approaches and we can swing to."

That, that was the beginning. Four company sized formations comprising a battalion to deploy in the north, and the battle lines had been drawn.
--
Notes I take the position that it was more likely that Li was coerced by Zhang Xun to signing his name to the restoration than that it was a forgery, particularly because Zhang allowed Li to resign and leave for tietsin the morning of. I expect Li claimed Zhang forged it to try and save his already damaged reputation from further harm. That is the interpretation presented here in regards to the legal fiction surrounding the restoration of Puyi. Historically on the 1st​ of July there were some minor skirmishes but for the most part no serious battles between troops in Zhili province as most units within the area of the capital somewhat danced around one another in apparent confusion over what was going on.

Indeed here that confusion is what actually causes the fighting to break out. Zhu Jiabao attempting to emulate Zhang's seizing of the railroad instigates a brief exchange escalating to the conflict here rather than both sides backing off and not getting into a protracted firefight with each calling for reinforcements from their respective sides.

For reference a Qing Territorial Defense Battalion (infantry) was nominally 504 men on paper, but were often either a result of graft or just problems with retention were single company formations under the command of local literati or gentry. This became pointedly worse in the republic as local elites were given honorary command of groups of men, that they would then enhance by declaring their unit to be a size larger for the prestige, without actually increasing men under arms. And again to refer back for comparison to pre-xian rifle battalions, they're roughly equivalent in manpower to Qing Regiments in strength (as by the end of the White Wolf Rebellion they're equivalent in size to a British Rifle Battalion's number of men)

 

[ATP]

As far as i knew,it remained that way in Czng China/except elite units/ one japaneese dyvision was worth of entire chineese corps.
P.S lancers - even in Poland they used lances only during parades,and do not take them to war.in 1939.

 

[Imperator Pax]

As far as i knew,it remained that way in Czng China/except elite units/ one japaneese dyvision was worth of entire chineese corps.
P.S lancers - even in Poland they used lances only during parades,and do not take them to war.in 1939.

Click to shrink...

Yeah hence the , "Surely Zhu know enough not try that shit." as Zhili's Capital Guards (nominally a Cavalry brigade) were pretty much a parade only formation despite having modern weapons don't seem to have actually done any fighting but were known as being very sharply dressed, and good at drill

 

[Imperator Pax]

1 July 1917
There were no sign of the capital guard's horses, either as a formation a horse, as scouts or even as messengers. They had most likely dismounted if they were still present, but it was equally possible that they had ridden for elsewhere.

It was possible they were fighting as dismounted infantry. There had been sporadic reports from the left flank of rifle fire from a hill that seemed to be equipped Mausers instead of the pattern 88 rifles, but at the same time some of the territorial defense battalion had Schonausers instead of those.

It was clear that these were Qing holdover units that Zhu had kept on the payroll from the civilian governorship's purse... without being units that Yuan had wanted to spend money to receive newer more modern arms, thus Zhu had probably bought what he could get. Zhili had no shortage of such outdated infantry, and it was clear that these weren't Yuan's last attempt at forming modern battalions... but most likely those troops were with Cao Kun as military governor of the province, which meant they were stuck on the wrong side of the province as Zhang sat on the eastern approach to the capital.

... which was another problem, but not theirs.

The troops in front of them represented almost forty years of attempts to modernize the green standard bearers of teh Qing. Rong Lu, long before Yuan Shikai, had tried like those who had succeeded him to time and again downsize and demobilize the outdated troops and provide a replacement with modern guns. Forty odd years of stop start hemmed in by conservative sinecures, and near feudal hereditary entitlements to paid positions had stymied the provincial troops, and thus even last year the official number of battalions still on the books had numbered more than eighty.

Not that it was likely even a fraction of those were close to their paper allotment. The financial limits of the province, the myriad of tax exemptions, carve outs, and of course other expenses, never mind questions of political reliability, had meant the battalions were provided for by different provincial officials including magistrates who received commands of their own, but without real expectation of seeing a battle. That must have been a sure shock when the Boxer rebellion had broken out almost twenty years ago. Only the modern Gansu braves under the Wu Wei corp had really proven their mettle finally departing the field when faced with a superior force as the arrival of a full strength Japanese Division had arrived and demonstrated the intention to mount a reckless bayonet charge through their ranks.

That was the irony of course the Wu Wei corp had survived the boxer rebellion. Leaving aside that the corp had fractured and fought on both sides depending on geographic location, the Gansu troops under Ma had quit the field withdrawn eventually to Xian before ultimately returning to their home provinces after the protocol was signed... but for the territorial defense battalions most had largely scattered in the face of the advancing alliance forces after the forts had been taken.

Rifle fire echoed in packets, but that was normal. The new sound were sounds that hadn't been heard before, the shriek and whine of mortar bombs descending as noon day approached. "Any chances they'll crawl out of those dykes before we get the three inches in them?"

There was a pause as another stokes battery lobbed towards the irrigation works that had been appropriated for fighting positions. "Can't say."

Allen glanced at the line, pulled his sleeve back to look at the watch. "We're not getting anywhere with this." They were burning day light as it was, and they needed to push the battalions back north in order for Griswold to stretch his breastworks to either side of the railway, "Those dykes are on the map, I'm going to see if Dawes can lay them out."

Which was really more the question of had Dawes gotten his battery dug in. "You think Dawes is serious about making fifteen miles?"

"I don't know, but this should only be twelve, the old guns will do that." They had the advantage of known ranges. This may as well have been the backyard... and it seemed as if they were the only ones who had brought artillery. "Either way I want those infantry backed up, if you can bottle them back," the fifteen miles back up the line to Baoding then that would be plenty. The battalion only needed to dig in and hold here while the rest of the regiment prepared to deploy along the western Zhili salient once the rest of second was dismounted Shijiazhuang would be safe from approach from the northern rail, and then the first could take the rail line down to Zhengzhou leaving the second to anchor the division's northern most positions in the west of the province.

Once the regiments were settled into place and their center battalions dug in that would be it. The actual travel time by the railway would mean less, because the troops would be committed. That was the hurdle the paper thin margins of spare troops.

As if reading his mind Waite shrugged, "I can hold. I don't fancy trying to take the town," But then that wasn't the objective. Baoding didn't matter. Keeping Zhu from turning this into a fight over Shijiazhuang behind them was the goal, keeping the rail line open and running from their town to its southern, and western terminus stations was their objective. "Not with the numbers being what they are, but with the rest of the regiment," a total of about thirty seven hundred men, "I can probably stretch our frontage to watch about five miles, and there are some rivers to the east which should make an advance from the east trouble."

Zhu wasn't likely to try that. It was a little too adventurous for the mandarin. They were banking that he'd try and hold Baoding over trying to break through, but just in case there was artillery. "I'm still not comfortable with them that close to our line."

"We could ask them to leave."

It hadn't escaped him that that was a potential option. Parley, and see if they were willing to fall back to their main lines nearer to the city to the north? It might work. Allen checked his wristwatch again, and looked up at the sky, "Do what you think his best, its your command, I'm going to get on the train and see about the loading for the first, and then see about getting to Zhengzhou and dug in before five o'clock."
--
In historical terms though there was very real fighting the reports that made the circulars, and reached western newspapers were penned in almost dulcet tones and with verbiage that evoked a long bygone age. Europe had been at war for nearly three years now, and yet on the first of July 1917 the attempted restoration evoke the same clamoring discussions of foreign conflicts by observers present for previous conflicts.

For all the silly flowery language it is to be irrevocably modern conflict. Zhang Xun's Wu Wei corp within Peking are armed with modern rifles, and equipped with modern german style cartridge belts and uniforms. The five thousand troops of his division sized force are even to be reported wearing the standard gray of the regular beiyang army, though some of his supporters still wear older black uniforms of the Qing Gendarmes and old wu wei corp. Nearly all of Zhang's men have the manchu queue despite being overwhelmingly ethnically han in composition.

Duan Qirui who will eventually command fifty thousand troops in the eastern Zhili plains is also a modern general. An artillery officer, whose infantry where the same gray uniforms of northern china's first modern army. It will ultimately be Duan's political maneuvering which secure together the beiyang troops to swell his field army to its peak, and secures the nominal support of at least three times that which will ensure that this little summer war lasts only half the month... but even in its first day Tietsin's would be poet laureates of the conflict are quick with pen and paper.

Percival Graves sitting in the train car makes no distinction between provincial, never mind the municipal rivalries of troops. He occasionally quips about some rivalry between one division in the beiyang army having with another, which is generally expressed by separate clubs or social institutions determined by their commanding officers. For years the beiyang army has been the firmament that has kept China together, and ultimately this will be the beginning of the end of that as this conflict between the modern army will send splits into the organization, and turn those different officer clubs into defined basically territorial kingdoms.

... but that isn't apparent on the first of July. Zhang Xun, the pony tail general, still seems convinced that his fellow Beiyang generals are just playing their parts, and surely that they'll come around. At lunch he sends out circulars denouncing the southern parliamentarians and espousing the usual royalist party talking points. The goal of this is on its face a constitutional monarchy, and that Zhang Xun wants heavily derived from Prussia.

... and of course that certain german styling and the sudden seizure of power is enough to make certain western observers nervous... but those accusations will rear their head later, after the fighting has largely petered out, and when its convenient to make them.

The wide tracks are varying the first regiment south at breakneck speeds. With good steel tracks, and well built carriages its a comfortable ride, and Percy's gold embossed pen is one of several hastily busy scrawling away.

Percy isn't the only one writing, and nor is he the only one not in field gray. The difference is his English khakis are overshadowed among that sea of gray. Of a lounge compartment repurposed to hold the regimental staff he's further distinguished by the Webley... he's the only man in the room still carrying a revolver in this day and age.. Nakamichi, always busily writing, has a pearl gripped colt automatic, though in a thirty caliber compared to the larger models of 1911 that are the predominantly represented browning artifice. Like Percy though Nakamichi isn't travelling with a long gun, Percy doesn't mind, he's an officer of the King of England... and what not, and he's just here to observe... and help where he can. Both of them and a few others in a neighboring, and somewhat less martial car, ready purposed as an expansion to the doctor's surgery, are here to help take stock of wounded, and foreigners caught in the middle of all of this 'unpleasantness' as Percy's termed it already. The two men were present for other reasons. They were a link to their respective governments, and in turn to the other end of telegraph lines that could tell them what was going on in the neighboring northern provinces like Anhui.

--
Notes little bit of a varied transition as we move into the evening of the 1st.

 

[ATP]

units existing only on papers - common thing in history.
In Poland after 1720 that happened,too - /that is when winged hussarld becomed joke as funeral calvary/ ,and when in 1764 they were counted,worst case were when horse regiment 500 strong had one horse/for commander/ and 42 soldiers.
If it is the same with those 80 battalions,fight should not be heavy.

 

[Imperator Pax]

1st​ July 1917
The summer meant there was still daylight in the sky, but as a precaution large arc lights had been pulled out and set to a dynamo in order to dismount. If they needed them to keep digging in and grading the fighting positions then they were there, and then after wards they'd mount them in the direction of the enemy to sweep through the night, but that would mostly be looking for scouts that might not even come in the dark. It was a quarter to five now, they had a couple more hours of daylight.

The three odd hour train ride had been made possible by the wider gauge tracks supporting higher speeds from the powerful locomotives... and the fact that when they'd built the line running the length they'd carved, graded, and dynamited the whole course way flat and straight... a feet of engineering that had taken most of 1911. That had been six years... and the RPF to protect the railways against bandits, against Bai Lang.

Zhengzhou was at the heart of it all. It was why 1st​ regiment's artillery batteries were all drawn from the light artillery brigade while 2nd​ had Dawes's heavy guns. The truth was he didn't want to have to be put in a position where they had to bring the 3 inchers up, but they'd be less destructive, and easier to maneuver in a direct fire role if it came to that being what needed to be done.

A ford angrily honked as parts of a motorized scout section dismounted narrowly avoiding one of its siblings. Its steel bolted on upper carriage forming a sloping gun shield similar to the Krupp's, to provide some measure of protection to the men manning the Vickers gun. The armored cars weren't intended to to dismount the heavy machine guns, it was possible to do so but not 'field expedient' the way the larger quads had been set up... but then different purposes, and they didn't have the provisional mechanized rifles.

These were not bandits. Zhu's militia looked good on the parade, and now Allen supposed they'd find out how well Zhili's territorial defense battalions fared in actual fighting. Zhengzhou had another potential problem, that could turn this into a three sided sort of fiesta. Percy and Nakamichi were both standing in the forward of the depot, near the large posted map of the city that had been centrally administered since the Qing. The Qing had hoped in some of their early reforms to be able to run centrally administered railways, and they had failed miserably ... there had been other problems that had hampered that 40 years ago, beyond just not understanding the engineering, and not having the capital. The next turns which had knotted everything up had been the schizophrenia the manchu court had been prone to in its waning years, especially after Japan had kicked the Qing into the dirt. The dynasty had survived the humiliation, but at a cost the Old Buddha seemed to have finally plunged off the deep end enough to side with the boxers.

... And that had divided China into three geographic distinctions of sentiment. The North. The Center, meaning the Yangtze provinces. The south... like Canton. "What about the western station John Allen?"

"2nd​ Battalion from Xian rolled off ahead of us to reinforce the company already at the yard." He replied, but the station in question, the rail yard where they normally stored products from Xian's factories before they were loaded up and shipped on to Tientsin or weihaiwei or wherever were cut off by the larger problem.

That put them loosely on a map at right angles. 1st​ Battalion 1St was currently north of the city proper dismounting in the yard. The rail line had been built offset of things and north of the old city even though all the rail lines passed through the city proper. The central junction in the city proper was a tangled mess where the Belgian line, the attempt provincial line, and the British line all sort of jumbled on running around. Their own line went south, and then veered to the west. The Belgian line went east towards the coast. The British line kept south. The provincial which really had never gone anywhere, nominally also went south but didn't leave the province of Honan. Its course took through a couple of other towns. "What about your calls?" Cole and his gendarmes were stuck in the middle of the city that the Qing had insisted, at the time, the stations be built... which had made a certain sort of sense.

The two men looked between each other, "Anhui." Nakamichi beat the Englishman to it. "The old Qing armies have declared for Zhang Xun's restoration."

"Yes, well, they say that, of course but at the same time they're not actively firing on Duan Qirui's garrison troops, on the other hand they are blocking the rail south," Along the coast.

Probably to stop any attempts to exploit the crisis from the south, but if the Anwu army did decide to move in force that might shift the balance of power against Duan... or not. It could make a mess of things in the province if they all moved as one, but that wasn't a sure thing. Anhwei was also far enough away as to not be their problem. "What about the coastal linkage?"

Percy grimaced at Nakamichi for a moment. "There are Japanese troops garrisoning the line in Shandong, but everything north of the Yangtze is probably in rebel hands." There wasn't really a good way to get over the river going south in the east. There were no bridges to speak of.

"Nothing to be done then." They'd have to find out more if there was any chance of the Anwu army coming west via the Belgian route, or if Honan's gentry and the Hongwei Army that was a hold over to what their forbearers had originally organized to resist the Taiping decided to make a move. There was a thunk as a campaign table was set down, and the ruffling as large wall map of the city and its environs was stretched out over it. It was relatively recently printed, a few years old with all the primary features, but Zhu's battalions had scurried into the old city and were not stuck between the center and the northern part of town.

As things were, he wasn't sure if Zhu, or whatever battalion commander was on site in town, was prepared to commit. Cole's staff had reported that the territorial militia had maneuvered, coming to right order line in ranks. The successive formation deployment from column had prompted their opening up of the Gendarmes madsen guns, but without Artillery the actual damage from short bursts had probably been minimal.

He stuck a pin in where the Battalion had originally attempted to form their point du appoi, and then measured back to where they'd been pushed. The lack of any sort of bombardment, preparatory or otherwise suggested that neither initial formation had access to artillery. Either way the fighting had cleared most of the streets, with the affluent having withdrawn to their walled compounds. That would keep them out of the fighting of anything short of artillery unless someone deliberately forced a gate. The concentric city walls that the local gentry had argued so heavily to keep even after the Boxer rebellion had been breached in several places by various modern construction, but there were still parts where long stretches of old ramparts remained. They were militarily useless though and the gates that still had horse and coolie drawn litters come through would be little impediment to either side trying to go through.

"Do you expect to do much fighting today John Allen?"

Truthfully no. Percy had not been especially thrilled when 2-2's mortars had opened up to suppress enemy infantry in the farms close to their lines of departure... and likely would have been even less thrilled to have the heavy batteries put into action from the western hillside. "We're going to dig in fighting positions," They had the Yellow river to their backs, to the north of them, and a good rail bridge across the bastard, that meant their supply lines could run to western Zhili. They wouldn't be able to link east without securing the town center, "We'll start probing against the Zhilu in the morning," The little arched bridges that had been built for a thousand years going back to the song criss crossed the smaller river south of the Yellow. "Push through the suburbs, and into the town proper," See what resistance appeared. He was curious to see what Zhengzhou's populace thought... it have been five years since the Qing and plenty of queues were common among northern chinese... but that didn't mean they would support Zhu...
--
Nakamichi adjusted his glasses as he loomed over the teletype printout copy "The lack of manpower creates a problem." It was as close as he got to saying I told you so. The mildness of the statement was still accurate. They had the manpower to recruit from, the income arriving, and of course the truth was Bai Lang had caused them to buywhat arms they had been able to source at market... before the Europeans had gone to war at the end of that summer.

"Yes." He agreed.

He wondered what the Germans would have done if Mauser had still had the guns that the Qing had originally ordered, only to then have the dynasty toppled and the money to pay for the order not be there. He had never broached the topic with Percy. Like as not the money which had gone to Mauser for the 1907 guns had been spent towards the war against France, maybe, but it was ten thousand some guns fewer that the Germans had not had in inventory to use at the onset of European hostilities.

Zhengzhou as a junction of railway hubs was decently sized, made important by history, agriculture, and now the rail, it was about a half million souls. Percy was right, typically the Chinese peasants did usually stay out of the way while armies ... handled martial affairs... which meant they normally came out to watch, and picnic, which might be a bit more dangerous with fighting in the city. He spared a look to the glare cast in the distance thrown towards the sprawl of the north end of the town.

Zhengzhou had gas lighting, and even a small trolley car system the belgians had installed that had run regularly since 1910. That was unlikely to be useful, but the line was there and electric lights were not magic, but those lights harsh and unnatural in their brightness were likely to be useful in disorienting any potential night skirmishers... and to highlight them before they hit the barbed wire.

Percy cleared the office threshold of the depot having returned from the battery of telephones.

This office was no suited for staff work, and thus the company commanders had been briefed outside and he had retired her after dinner to consider the map.

Nakamichi pushed the teletype, and sat back. "The good news is that their battalions are roughly a third of our own."

"A third. How do you figure we should be outnumbering them two to one I think."

The Japanese electrical engineer adjusted his glasses owlishly, "Nothing shows that their battalions at strength. Regimental forces are at paper strength, or more with added units." He paused clucked his tongue like a schoolmaster, "It is not to say we are not potentially outnumbered if they were concentrated, but each of their battalions are," he searched for the word, "Detachments."

That might well have been true, and and seemed to have been similar to Cole's report this morning, and what he'd seen with Waite at lunch. "Do we know anything about Zhu's officers?"

"Your usual collection of gentlemen." Percy replied, "Most of them are Chinese scholars," He paused unnecessarily to clarify what the three of them all knew he had meant, "landowners who passed the exams," Before the exams had stopped. "Scarcely suspect any of them have serious experience, unless they were involved in the Boxer rebellion." That had been the last real conflict to touch this far north, to involve standing units. The northern territorial guards had been loyal to the ancient regiment.

It was doubtful Zhu had anyone who could command all the battalions never mind use the small units aggressively enough to attack, but they were in the city, and the water ways while narrow were still enough to potential hamper movement around them.

He had hoped that Percy with so long in Peking might know something about the now enemy officers, but nothing that could be used. They would have to see in the morning what news came out of Peking, and what was going on
--
Notes: We move into July 2 next time, but yes Zhengzhou like most of eastern China really really took a beating in the second sino Japanese war and early communist rule, its population dropped to something like 150 thousand people by the end of the Chinese Civil War. Obviously in this timeline the rail hub at Zhengzhou is a lot more built up than it was historically, by this point the dutch were already exploiting what was described here as the Belgian line because... well Belgium didn't have the capital being under German occupation but that will crop up laterr.

Next time we get into some mild urban combat, and the beginning of mechanized, or at least armored car warfare and such.

 

[ATP]

So,he is facing companies instead of battalions,led by sergeants.Becouse gentelmen officers could only wrote poems.Very good,i am sure.
But - one sodier in trench is still capable of fighting 3 in open terrain.

About german selling weapons - true,they could have more if they do not sell them to China,BUT - would they have money for making them?

 

[Imperator Pax]

AoE Timeline notes, Events 9-8-22

So as is probably, rather obvious, this is fairly British Foreign Policy 'engaged' story particularly because this story opens in the years before the Empire sustains 'its great wounds' and watches the decline of the Empire. With the death of Queen Elizabeth the Second there are certain factors I need to discuss , provide warning to. In this timeline George V, the founder of the House of Windsor (1917), is one of those figures who in this timeline dies slightly earlier. This leads to the Edwardian crisis (His son, Edward the VII) because those had been a long time concern of George V as well as the British in general, and then to a slightly earlier ascension of George VI, the father of QE II, as a result of that.

Now while I have done outlines of significant events for the cold war what has not been definitively established is the subsequent does KGVI die per OTL or does ascending earlier result in QEII Succeeding him sooner given both him and KGV suffered long term health problems compounded by stress, though the argument can be made that historically George the sixth made it through the leadership of the second world war a couple years on the throne more early shouldn't hurt him.
--
And while not definitive a couple of pieces of primarily British developments (Probably updated periodically) to reflect this, I know I have plans for late inter war aircraft that were commercially available to British partners through aircraft firms just ahead of the war breaking out, but for the moment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_8-inch_Mk_VIII_naval_gun This is a direct outgrowth of the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty, and makes a pretty good railway gun.

Post Chiang's (so in 29 really going into 30) marks a second phase of modernization. Leading to yes, the eight inch above, and development of late interwar tank development (Vickers introduces the 3 man turret during this period) and proceed eventually to development of things like Mk 1 Hurricanes in the mid thirties

 

[Imperator Pax]

2nd​ July 1917
Allen sipped his coffee with the company officers deployed around the map. The trench lines they'd dug in yesterday had not been particularly deep, but they didn't necessarily need to be, two feet down, and barbed wire affront that formed into a rough v. He'd gotten up before dawn... if Percy was right he doubted Zhu's gentlemen had stirred yet. The depot needed to be held, and they were going to have to following the northern line down the city, because the objective was to secure the rail station in the town center.

The idea of an armored train wasn't so ridiculous in a situation such as this, but as the Monday began he could pick up the cracks of rifle fire in the city. "The 2nd​ Battalion relays that they have not been engaged."

He put the tin field cup down on the edge of the map, almost squarely on Anyang to the north. It was possible Zhu's commander didn't know about 2nd's deployment. It was possible he simply didn't care because they were a few miles beyond the city center and it possible he didn't think they could do anything to him.

There were a lot of possibilities. "What's Cole doing?"

"The company commander reports that they've sandbagged across this street here, there have been emplacements of their heavy machine guns," Vickers in 7mm that had been in Cole's inventory since they'd been received from the British during Bai Lang's raid, "deployment of cars here, and here." He indicated intersections with small flags, and then a pair of brass figures, "Madsen guns holding the junction."

The ultimate result was the Gendarmes had a narrow salient projection abutting the city market. And that his main lain were arrayed along the railway going north. Pickets, and skirmishers fanned along the east and western approached with of course the western approach being the stretch of rail that cut through the city and reached the western depot.

So far it didn't seem as if the machine guns on either side had engaged. There was the possibility that in an unfortunate measure found to the aristocracy, and educated gentry the world over whoever was in charge over their might see the digging and the works and order a fool charge because 'digging was peasant work' or whatever. On the other hand penny packets charging machine guns, or hell the dug in light guns would make today go so much faster.

They had graded all of this five years ago, so there was no high ground to speak of, and while they could dig in for elevation, or swivel to traverse using the carriages it was unlikely to come to that unless the enemy were precisely known. Repeating Chunking was not on his list of things to do.

"I want the cars readied to cross the river, bring abel company up in behind them to recointer in force, and secure the bridge in particular." He meant the rail bridge. They were going to keep the battalions third rifle company behind for the moment. The current intention sat to have the rail line held with the platoons of Charlie maintaining pickets, and insuring that their field telephones remained open. The battalion's artillery would remain in the depot, but the battery were connected to tractors and could be redeployed relatively quickly, if it came to that.

The scout cars were as close to cavalry as they had. The fords were never really used to go much beyond the boundaries, even though their suspension would let them handle what passed for roads in the countryside, really they never went more than ten fifteen miles at the most of the city boundaries, or the nearest railway. The rail was the link of communication, and maneuver. Rail lines were run parallel to telegraph and phone and field lines could be linked in. As a result and in conjunction as engine production for tractors had up ticked particularly over the last few months for their limited needs, the pack horse had diminished reducing the need for fodder.

Had they followed Nakamichi's advice the previous year they'd have been dependent on the age old beast of burden... but maybe that would have been alright. Allen contemplated the broad map, "Abel will follow the cars," He reiterated to the company commander, "Be prepared to deploy your Lewis guns, " Baker had Madsens, having not yet received the newer guns, but Charlie had older potato diggers, another reason to keep them slow rolling and in reserve to guard their flank. He picked up the icon for the battalion headquarters, the small brass rook represented forty five men. The Regimental Headquarters was the same size, but comprised the colonel who held ordinary command. Then there was his somewhat smaller general staff... "And act aggressively to contact with the enemy." He turned to major Hao, who was a young man in his late twenties but prematurely balding, the brass rook represented him and his staff. "Forward line of communication, redundancies, and preparations for the artillery."
--
Unlike the heavy steel bridge that had been sunk to cross the yellow river north, there was little need of that for the smaller river that flowed north of the town, between it and the big bastard of north China. The railway crossing though had not been their first choice, not yet, they had caught sight of one of the enemy columns first.

The Ford threw itself forward hopping a little as its suspension sprang under the added weight to clear the last lip of the little stone bridge. The Vickers gun was erratic under the motion skipping high, and then low as the man up top overcompensated. "They're in double columns."

It certainly appeared that way, Allen admitted looking on at the company. In the history books Zhengzhou would be scarcely remembered and not in particular as much. Not in comparison to the fifty thousand Duan marched on Peking, or more flashily his use of aircraft Yuan Shikai had bought for China's Air Force to drop leaflets, and also sticks of dynamite nearish to Royalist positions.

The lumbering of ground traversing war machines was not wholly novel any longer. There had been armored cars used by the Beiyang defenders at Shanghai, several years earlier during the so called second revolution.

Allen cleared his throat at the ding as the machine gun in the scout car murdered a helpless street lamp... but it was keeping the enemy's head down. They were disorganized and had been moving and now didn't seem to be able to get organized to return fire at the steel beasts. The battalion commander two hundred yards, and half way to the bridge started ordering Abel's commander to push the brightly painted arches over the water. Captain Wu must have had his first sergeant appropriately close at hand as a figure moved towards the platoon officers and their ranks and within a few moments the infantry's machine guns opened from one side of the river pouring hot lead in the general direction of the left column. The north market was empty of people the coolies had fled and the merchants locked up behind their shops, and walls as both gray clad formations had stirred this morning. He had seen the occasional peeking out from heavy doors, and looks from over the walls, but people were waiting to see what would happen.

Platoons started coming on line, and braced against the stone fixtures. Within a minute or two Mausers started to bring accurate fire from their base zeros. Infantry in columns didn't take well to precision fire at close range in the open, never mind when you were in the middle of a town's plaza with no where to go.

Hao signaled for another of his runners, and another platoon diverted towards the railway bridge. The rifle squads of the unit leap frogging past one another one across the spans of the small bridge until they were spread across their bridge. Their gewehrs opened up neatly in an elevated enfilade as the bridge had been built to allow river boats to pass under. That was enough to support the sharpshooters, who moved to prone, and kneeling positions.

The machine guns started to chatter again. The rattlers snapped raking into the mid section of the column at angle, more accurately this time. He turned away, and towards the arriving officer. "2nd​?"

"Informed, we have made contact, but we have a message from the center that Manchu," AN irony since Lang was himself Manchu, but the RPF officer didn't seem to consider that, "seem to moving on the Preparatory school." Lang decided to volunteer either his own speculation, or someone elses who he might have concurred with, "They may be looking for southern collaborators."

... it was a monday morning after... admittedly... of course there had been no reports that the farming college had been molested... and of the two schools if you were looking Guomindang sympathizers... yeah it made a certain sort of sense... on the other... was now really the time for that? Allen nodded, "Put it on the map." He ordered one of the staff lieutenants. Calling it on the map was a bit inaccurate they had notes but this close to the front there was no actual field table and map.

The companies were deploying, and the battalion commander needed to be allowed to direct the troops, and correct any mistakes without too much mother henning. It would be different once they had the city center, and had linked with the second. Then it would be regimental directing. That could potentially tomorrow, or on the fourth.

The scout cars lumbered, and bounced forward the right column backpedalled harder.

As the two cars evened out into the north end of the market the vickers stabilized to come across the front of the column's numbers. The company was now hardening into a formation that was firing across the river, and into the side to cover platoons looping across the trestle bridges leading to the market. The division of labor and materiel being what it was... it was a pity they didn't have Stokes, the battalion commander could have used them from back here to plaster the market's plaza ahead.. a facet of modern war.

The Lewis guns would suffice... for today anyway. This was fire and maneuver as US doctrine intended... but more machine guns to spare at this unit scale... in part due to Bai Lang, the European war... and of course just the fact it was the singular division to which equip. Abel Company's assets initiated a second line suppressive fire, and the backpedalling continued towards the column's baggage. From where he was standing 2nd Platoon looked to have fixed bayonets as they crossed the bridge advancing towards the cars.

There would be papers written, and lessons learned when this was done. "The market will accommodate the battalion's artillery." Said battalion's commander remarked. "The enemy has likely entrenched themselves behind walls, that we'll need to bring down."

Probably so. "Make it so, Colonel. Once your pickets are in place you may deploy the battery as you like." He responded... the artillery had to be moved forward, but he wasn't comfortable using them indiscriminately.

--
Notes: Freaking august, this about the only thing I'm still ahead on. Anyway so like I mentioned above a lot of this timeline had been outlined, there are / is scenes, and content which have been written through the cold war, and of course butterlies to some extent but for the most part its broadly similar in terms of war course, and succession, and political leadership.

Spoiler: Spoilers, misc thread content

So the conclusion to this ['portion' of the timeline, whatever one wishes to call it] is the Romanov Rescue and the end of the European war, and we pick up (most likely) with the consequences of Versailles, and John Jordan springing the Arms Embargo of May 1919 on China with no warning.

The Romanov Rescue of July 1918 results as the name implies the rescue of the Tsar and his family, and as mentioned in the timeline notes in the misc thread results in a botched shooting in london (in the prescence of then heir to the Japanese throne Hirohito) in 1921 of KGV which while not fatal does cause the king injury and exasperates his existing health conditions. The actual intended target of this was the king's cousin Nicholas, regardless this will eventually result in George the Fifth dying a little earlier and causing the edwardian crisis to happen a little earlier and installing George the Sixth a little sooner.

And well all of this is related to the broader relations in terms of, including or especially the attempt aimed at Nicholas, with the relations the British Empire has. That however is a ways in the future.

 

[ATP]

2nd​ July 1917
Allen sipped his coffee with the company officers deployed around the map. The trench lines they'd dug in yesterday had not been particularly deep, but they didn't necessarily need to be, two feet down, and barbed wire affront that formed into a rough v. He'd gotten up before dawn... if Percy was right he doubted Zhu's gentlemen had stirred yet. The depot needed to be held, and they were going to have to following the northern line down the city, because the objective was to secure the rail station in the town center.

The idea of an armored train wasn't so ridiculous in a situation such as this, but as the Monday began he could pick up the cracks of rifle fire in the city. "The 2nd​ Battalion relays that they have not been engaged."

He put the tin field cup down on the edge of the map, almost squarely on Anyang to the north. It was possible Zhu's commander didn't know about 2nd's deployment. It was possible he simply didn't care because they were a few miles beyond the city center and it possible he didn't think they could do anything to him.

There were a lot of possibilities. "What's Cole doing?"

"The company commander reports that they've sandbagged across this street here, there have been emplacements of their heavy machine guns," Vickers in 7mm that had been in Cole's inventory since they'd been received from the British during Bai Lang's raid, "deployment of cars here, and here." He indicated intersections with small flags, and then a pair of brass figures, "Madsen guns holding the junction."

The ultimate result was the Gendarmes had a narrow salient projection abutting the city market. And that his main lain were arrayed along the railway going north. Pickets, and skirmishers fanned along the east and western approached with of course the western approach being the stretch of rail that cut through the city and reached the western depot.

So far it didn't seem as if the machine guns on either side had engaged. There was the possibility that in an unfortunate measure found to the aristocracy, and educated gentry the world over whoever was in charge over their might see the digging and the works and order a fool charge because 'digging was peasant work' or whatever. On the other hand penny packets charging machine guns, or hell the dug in light guns would make today go so much faster.

They had graded all of this five years ago, so there was no high ground to speak of, and while they could dig in for elevation, or swivel to traverse using the carriages it was unlikely to come to that unless the enemy were precisely known. Repeating Chunking was not on his list of things to do.

"I want the cars readied to cross the river, bring abel company up in behind them to recointer in force, and secure the bridge in particular." He meant the rail bridge. They were going to keep the battalions third rifle company behind for the moment. The current intention sat to have the rail line held with the platoons of Charlie maintaining pickets, and insuring that their field telephones remained open. The battalion's artillery would remain in the depot, but the battery were connected to tractors and could be redeployed relatively quickly, if it came to that.

The scout cars were as close to cavalry as they had. The fords were never really used to go much beyond the boundaries, even though their suspension would let them handle what passed for roads in the countryside, really they never went more than ten fifteen miles at the most of the city boundaries, or the nearest railway. The rail was the link of communication, and maneuver. Rail lines were run parallel to telegraph and phone and field lines could be linked in. As a result and in conjunction as engine production for tractors had up ticked particularly over the last few months for their limited needs, the pack horse had diminished reducing the need for fodder.

Had they followed Nakamichi's advice the previous year they'd have been dependent on the age old beast of burden... but maybe that would have been alright. Allen contemplated the broad map, "Abel will follow the cars," He reiterated to the company commander, "Be prepared to deploy your Lewis guns, " Baker had Madsens, having not yet received the newer guns, but Charlie had older potato diggers, another reason to keep them slow rolling and in reserve to guard their flank. He picked up the icon for the battalion headquarters, the small brass rook represented forty five men. The Regimental Headquarters was the same size, but comprised the colonel who held ordinary command. Then there was his somewhat smaller general staff... "And act aggressively to contact with the enemy." He turned to major Hao, who was a young man in his late twenties but prematurely balding, the brass rook represented him and his staff. "Forward line of communication, redundancies, and preparations for the artillery."
--
Unlike the heavy steel bridge that had been sunk to cross the yellow river north, there was little need of that for the smaller river that flowed north of the town, between it and the big bastard of north China. The railway crossing though had not been their first choice, not yet, they had caught sight of one of the enemy columns first.

The Ford threw itself forward hopping a little as its suspension sprang under the added weight to clear the last lip of the little stone bridge. The Vickers gun was erratic under the motion skipping high, and then low as the man up top overcompensated. "They're in double columns."

It certainly appeared that way, Allen admitted looking on at the company. In the history books Zhengzhou would be scarcely remembered and not in particular as much. Not in comparison to the fifty thousand Duan marched on Peking, or more flashily his use of aircraft Yuan Shikai had bought for China's Air Force to drop leaflets, and also sticks of dynamite nearish to Royalist positions.

The lumbering of ground traversing war machines was not wholly novel any longer. There had been armored cars used by the Beiyang defenders at Shanghai, several years earlier during the so called second revolution.

Allen cleared his throat at the ding as the machine gun in the scout car murdered a helpless street lamp... but it was keeping the enemy's head down. They were disorganized and had been moving and now didn't seem to be able to get organized to return fire at the steel beasts. The battalion commander two hundred yards, and half way to the bridge started ordering Abel's commander to push the brightly painted arches over the water. Captain Wu must have had his first sergeant appropriately close at hand as a figure moved towards the platoon officers and their ranks and within a few moments the infantry's machine guns opened from one side of the river pouring hot lead in the general direction of the left column. The north market was empty of people the coolies had fled and the merchants locked up behind their shops, and walls as both gray clad formations had stirred this morning. He had seen the occasional peeking out from heavy doors, and looks from over the walls, but people were waiting to see what would happen.

Platoons started coming on line, and braced against the stone fixtures. Within a minute or two Mausers started to bring accurate fire from their base zeros. Infantry in columns didn't take well to precision fire at close range in the open, never mind when you were in the middle of a town's plaza with no where to go.

Hao signaled for another of his runners, and another platoon diverted towards the railway bridge. The rifle squads of the unit leap frogging past one another one across the spans of the small bridge until they were spread across their bridge. Their gewehrs opened up neatly in an elevated enfilade as the bridge had been built to allow river boats to pass under. That was enough to support the sharpshooters, who moved to prone, and kneeling positions.

The machine guns started to chatter again. The rattlers snapped raking into the mid section of the column at angle, more accurately this time. He turned away, and towards the arriving officer. "2nd​?"

"Informed, we have made contact, but we have a message from the center that Manchu," AN irony since Lang was himself Manchu, but the RPF officer didn't seem to consider that, "seem to moving on the Preparatory school." Lang decided to volunteer either his own speculation, or someone elses who he might have concurred with, "They may be looking for southern collaborators."

... it was a monday morning after... admittedly... of course there had been no reports that the farming college had been molested... and of the two schools if you were looking Guomindang sympathizers... yeah it made a certain sort of sense... on the other... was now really the time for that? Allen nodded, "Put it on the map." He ordered one of the staff lieutenants. Calling it on the map was a bit inaccurate they had notes but this close to the front there was no actual field table and map.

The companies were deploying, and the battalion commander needed to be allowed to direct the troops, and correct any mistakes without too much mother henning. It would be different once they had the city center, and had linked with the second. Then it would be regimental directing. That could potentially tomorrow, or on the fourth.

The scout cars lumbered, and bounced forward the right column backpedalled harder.

As the two cars evened out into the north end of the market the vickers stabilized to come across the front of the column's numbers. The company was now hardening into a formation that was firing across the river, and into the side to cover platoons looping across the trestle bridges leading to the market. The division of labor and materiel being what it was... it was a pity they didn't have Stokes, the battalion commander could have used them from back here to plaster the market's plaza ahead.. a facet of modern war.

The Lewis guns would suffice... for today anyway. This was fire and maneuver as US doctrine intended... but more machine guns to spare at this unit scale... in part due to Bai Lang, the European war... and of course just the fact it was the singular division to which equip. Abel Company's assets initiated a second line suppressive fire, and the backpedalling continued towards the column's baggage. From where he was standing 2nd Platoon looked to have fixed bayonets as they crossed the bridge advancing towards the cars.

There would be papers written, and lessons learned when this was done. "The market will accommodate the battalion's artillery." Said battalion's commander remarked. "The enemy has likely entrenched themselves behind walls, that we'll need to bring down."

Probably so. "Make it so, Colonel. Once your pickets are in place you may deploy the battery as you like." He responded... the artillery had to be moved forward, but he wasn't comfortable using them indiscriminately.

--
Notes: Freaking august, this about the only thing I'm still ahead on. Anyway so like I mentioned above a lot of this timeline had been outlined, there are / is scenes, and content which have been written through the cold war, and of course butterlies to some extent but for the most part its broadly similar in terms of war course, and succession, and political leadership.

Spoiler: Spoilers, misc thread content

So the conclusion to this ['portion' of the timeline, whatever one wishes to call it] is the Romanov Rescue and the end of the European war, and we pick up (most likely) with the consequences of Versailles, and John Jordan springing the Arms Embargo of May 1919 on China with no warning.

The Romanov Rescue of July 1918 results as the name implies the rescue of the Tsar and his family, and as mentioned in the timeline notes in the misc thread results in a botched shooting in london (in the prescence of then heir to the Japanese throne Hirohito) in 1921 of KGV which while not fatal does cause the king injury and exasperates his existing health conditions. The actual intended target of this was the king's cousin Nicholas, regardless this will eventually result in George the Fifth dying a little earlier and causing the edwardian crisis to happen a little earlier and installing George the Sixth a little sooner.

And well all of this is related to the broader relations in terms of, including or especially the attempt aimed at Nicholas, with the relations the British Empire has. That however is a ways in the future.

Click to shrink...

Polish armored cars made on Ford T in 1920:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FT-B

Picture:

and yes,it worked only on roads.

When war would end,you should buy improved guns from Krupp/longer barrels,new ammo/
and maybe planes - Pfalz D.12,Roland D.6/LGM/,Siemens-Schuckert D.4,Junkers D.1/monoplane/,Dornier -Zeppelin D.1.
You could choosen any of them except Junkers - it was too advanced to produce in China.
Fokker run to Holland,so you could not choose his Fokker D.8

But,all of them used 138kwh strong engines - so,better buy from A-H.

Their only oryginal fighter was Aviatik/Berg D.1 as good as german best,easy to made,and you could buy entire factory few months earlier.
And A-H made it in 6 factories.
Or at least hire constructor Julius von Berg.
Plus - it could use stronger 167kwh engines.

engines was made in Austro-Daimler/Ferdynand porsche/ and Warchałowski-Eissher by Otto Hieronymus,but Daimler had some problems.
So,better hire Otto Heronymus.

And,with 167kwh engine and Julius von Berg,let him made not only better fighters,but also first dive bombers.

P.S Since Ferdinand Porsche "helped" germans so much during WW2,better leave him in Austria.With his genius,germans would lost quicker next war.
And,his engine for A-H planes had problems anyway.

Hire Otto Hieronymus instead.You could save his life this way.

 

[Imperator Pax]

So,he is facing companies instead of battalions,led by sergeants.Becouse gentelmen officers could only wrote poems.Very good,i am sure.
But - one sodier in trench is still capable of fighting 3 in open terrain.

About german selling weapons - true,they could have more if they do not sell them to China,BUT - would they have money for making them?

Click to shrink...

Mauser had already produces, they had taken the order nad the downpayment, and they had built (07 was already a commercial design, they built them for Chile, and Thailand, as well probably south american countries) the order in patches, so the Qing got a couple shipments and originally the whole order was going to be 20000 guns, I think somewhere over 12000 but the Chinese were paying in patches and so they stopped paying for them in 1911. The ROC doesn't have he money to pay for the rest of the order so they sat in a german warehouse until ww1 rolls around. The authorities order a halt of exports and then buy the guns from Mauser. [at that point its no longer Mauser's problem] And the 1907 were commercial guns, its very likely that the Germans also took into service guns meant for south america navy (we know the Royal Navy took 1907 into service when they suspended production and nationalized the ships they were building for those navies).

Mauser here, goes, "we have these things in stock" and just sell them on the commercial market in 1913, so they end up in China. And these guns will show up more when 2nd Division is established as they're the first National Guard / Reserves Division to be established by XIan, because this arc is basically the demonstration of how unstable thing have become and that protecting close to whom requires men.

So Mauser gets paid here, maybe they used that money to make something else... or not its not covered here, and the guns aren't in a Mauser warehouse when the lights go out in europe.

Polish armored cars made on Ford T in 1920:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FT-B

Picture:

and yes,it worked only on roads.

When war would end,you should buy improved guns from Krupp/longer barrels,new ammo/
and maybe planes - Pfalz D.12,Roland D.6/LGM/,Siemens-Schuckert D.4,Junkers D.1/monoplane/,Dornier -Zeppelin D.1.
You could choosen any of them except Junkers - it was too advanced to produce in China.
Fokker run to Holland,so you could not choose his Fokker D.8

But,all of them used 138kwh strong engines - so,better buy from A-H.

Their only oryginal fighter was Aviatik/Berg D.1 as good as german best,easy to made,and you could buy entire factory few months earlier.
And A-H made it in 6 factories.
Or at least hire constructor Julius von Berg.
Plus - it could use stronger 167kwh engines.

engines was made in Austro-Daimler/Ferdynand porsche/ and Warchałowski-Eissher by Otto Hieronymus,but Daimler had some problems.
So,better hire Otto Heronymus.

And,with 167kwh engine and Julius von Berg,let him made not only better fighters,but also first dive bombers.

P.S Since Ferdinand Porsche "helped" germans so much during WW2,better leave him in Austria.With his genius,germans would lost quicker next war.
And,his engine for A-H planes had problems anyway.

Hire Otto Hieronymus instead.You could save his life this way.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, with the Ford, its all that extra weight on the front axle. The T had a very good spring, and bar suspension because it was designed at a time when America really didn't have roads, well if you try and up engine the car, or in thi case, protect that chassis, including the engine, you're adding a lot of weight and the suspension cannot work.

The Junkers and Dornier were the two I was really looking, but I'll look for the others because, well John Jordan's foolish well minded arms embargo didn't effectively stop airplanes (as the newspapers repeatedly make clear).

Porsche...to use a writing example, a good editor / publisher needs to occassionally come over and swat the writer's hand with a ruler to keep him on topic, and from straying too far into crazy. Porsche is that writer, and you see this in his pre ww1 career where he makes the electric hybrid race car demonstration of cool, but impractical with the technology we have (which race car, but yeah super heavy tank is silly).

 

[ATP]

Mauser had already produces, they had taken the order nad the downpayment, and they had built (07 was already a commercial design, they built them for Chile, and Thailand, as well probably south american countries) the order in patches, so the Qing got a couple shipments and originally the whole order was going to be 20000 guns, I think somewhere over 12000 but the Chinese were paying in patches and so they stopped paying for them in 1911. The ROC doesn't have he money to pay for the rest of the order so they sat in a german warehouse until ww1 rolls around. The authorities order a halt of exports and then buy the guns from Mauser. [at that point its no longer Mauser's problem] And the 1907 were commercial guns, its very likely that the Germans also took into service guns meant for south america navy (we know the Royal Navy took 1907 into service when they suspended production and nationalized the ships they were building for those navies).

Mauser here, goes, "we have these things in stock" and just sell them on the commercial market in 1913, so they end up in China. And these guns will show up more when 2nd Division is established as they're the first National Guard / Reserves Division to be established by XIan, because this arc is basically the demonstration of how unstable thing have become and that protecting close to whom requires men.

So Mauser gets paid here, maybe they used that money to make something else... or not its not covered here, and the guns aren't in a Mauser warehouse when the lights go out in europe.


Yeah, with the Ford, its all that extra weight on the front axle. The T had a very good spring, and bar suspension because it was designed at a time when America really didn't have roads, well if you try and up engine the car, or in thi case, protect that chassis, including the engine, you're adding a lot of weight and the suspension cannot work.

The Junkers and Dornier were the two I was really looking, but I'll look for the others because, well John Jordan's foolish well minded arms embargo didn't effectively stop airplanes (as the newspapers repeatedly make clear).

Porsche...to use a writing example, a good editor / publisher needs to occassionally come over and swat the writer's hand with a ruler to keep him on topic, and from straying too far into crazy. Porsche is that writer, and you see this in his pre ww1 career where he makes the electric hybrid race car demonstration of cool, but impractical with the technology we have (which race car, but yeah super heavy tank is silly).

Click to shrink...

Junkers was made from metal - probably not possible in China.All others - mostly wood and canvas.No problem for you.
I tried find something about Otto Hieronymus - but wiki is in german,and all i undarstandt that he died in 1922.Since he was less then 50 then,probably accident - which mean,that hiring him mean saving his life.
And stronger engines for you - which do not manfulcioned like Porshe work.
Hire somebody who arleady made fighters in germany or A-H/except Fokker - he is going to Holland/,and you are good.

P.S according to wiki,Junkers D1 was refused by german air forces becouse was bad in dogfight.
Navy buyed 12,and never used.

So,better choose some classical biplane - China is not good place for experiments.
Later,could keep to canvas fighter as long as possible - last was Fokker D.21,if i remember correctly.
Easy to made - and good enough for both soviets and Japan till 1940.

 

[Imperator Pax]

Junkers was made from metal - probably not possible in China.All others - mostly wood and canvas.No problem for you.
I tried find something about Otto Hieronymus - but wiki is in german,and all i undarstandt that he died in 1922.Since he was less then 50 then,probably accident - which mean,that hiring him mean saving his life.
And stronger engines for you - which do not manfulcioned like Porshe work.
Hire somebody who arleady made fighters in germany or A-H/except Fokker - he is going to Holland/,and you are good.

P.S according to wiki,Junkers D1 was refused by german air forces becouse was bad in dogfight.
Navy buyed 12,and never used.

So,better choose some classical biplane - China is not good place for experiments.
Later,could keep to canvas fighter as long as possible - last was Fokker D.21,if i remember correctly.
Easy to made - and good enough for both soviets and Japan till 1940.

Click to shrink...

The metal is less of an issue, its been mentioned, but domestic steel is much further ahead of what was OTL, part of that is that the Qing era rail network is larger than it was historically, and that the Cadre pursued investing and so have been exporting steel, bar stock, and such to both the British and Japan to meet war time needs (and historically China was doing this via firms, part of this is why Japan wanted to go ahead and purchase Hanzhou steel, because that firm, and several others were already in debt to Japanese creditors) but also large stamping facilities are coming online and while they're currently being used for machine frames (trains, tractors) they'll be used for aircraft production in the twenties

Otto Hieronymus died in a car accident practicing for a race. The Junkers as I understand it is that Navy bought them, and then immediately got them taken away and sent to the eastern front, where the Air Force refused to use them. Yes manueverability poor, for a dog fighter. as an observation aircraft its got decent speed, its mono wing, and should be able to accomdate radio for relaying artillery and that in naval configuration is you could use it for a limitted ground attack role that was my thinking anyway, Because frankly in the short term early twenties dog fights aren't a thing in china (until the late twenties), there are a few dozen air to air duels (versus the more than a hundred that took place during the mexican civil war) and there are very few victories. Its mostly limitted to this warlord has planes that drop bombs, or is showing off his money by having planes. High speed dog fighters are not required immediately

 

[ATP]

The metal is less of an issue, its been mentioned, but domestic steel is much further ahead of what was OTL, part of that is that the Qing era rail network is larger than it was historically, and that the Cadre pursued investing and so have been exporting steel, bar stock, and such to both the British and Japan to meet war time needs (and historically China was doing this via firms, part of this is why Japan wanted to go ahead and purchase Hanzhou steel, because that firm, and several others were already in debt to Japanese creditors) but also large stamping facilities are coming online and while they're currently being used for machine frames (trains, tractors) they'll be used for aircraft production in the twenties

Otto Hieronymus died in a car accident practicing for a race. The Junkers as I understand it is that Navy bought them, and then immediately got them taken away and sent to the eastern front, where the Air Force refused to use them. Yes manueverability poor, for a dog fighter. as an observation aircraft its got decent speed, its mono wing, and should be able to accomdate radio for relaying artillery and that in naval configuration is you could use it for a limitted ground attack role that was my thinking anyway, Because frankly in the short term early twenties dog fights aren't a thing in china (until the late twenties), there are a few dozen air to air duels (versus the more than a hundred that took place during the mexican civil war) and there are very few victories. Its mostly limitted to this warlord has planes that drop bombs, or is showing off his money by having planes. High speed dog fighters are not required immediately

Click to shrink...

Thanks for info.
So,even if you have metal,it is still better made fighters from canvas - so,choose something else then Junkers.You could choose all except Fokker.
I forget about Albatros - you could buy either german or austrian version.

If Otto died in car accident in Europe,then inventing him to China not only save his life,but also gave you stronger engines which do not have problems,like those of Porsche./they overheated/

Another interesting thing - i accidentally discovered,that 20mm Oeriklion AA gun was invented in germany in 1914 - so,you could buy it after WW1 end.
Or,even better,made cheaper version - british during WW2 hired polish engineer to made Oeriklion with less parts,and they made it as "Polsten" - as good as oryginal,but few times cheaper.
You could do the same after buing german design.

 

[Imperator Pax]

2nd​ July 1917
Their boys had proven their starch. An aggressive advance to had put second platoon of the first right and forward where they could see the whites of the enemy still in a frayed column. Fifty men and five rounds rapid at close order was a shock action that rippled through the ranks, and was enough make Percy resemble his namesake, and seemed to impress Nakmichi. The two men had arrived on scene. "Cold steel now," He remarked, "My grandfather would be impressed."

A still stricken looking Englishman nodded absently, and after a breath resumed what he'd been preparing to address, "There was some talk, they said something about black shirts, do you think it could be some of Zhang's troops?"

Allen suppressed a curse. He hadn't heard that, but Percy and the other 'advisers' had been in the back end... and black uniforms didn't mean shit because that had been what Cole had thought would be clever to put their gendarmes in.

Ignorant of his inner turmoil Percy continued, "They'll be better armed than this lot for sure." He declared as the rifle squads of another platoon joined the second, as the last of the platoons of the company fired into other column from the railway bridge. There was a pile of bodies beginning to develop as the Lewis, and Vickers, and the Mausers did their work.

He was already considering how this might have played had they approached the bridges with the enemy already in place... the guns. Most likely the Battalion's battery in direct fire, coupled with placed machine guns... and that was assuming that they didn't have to storm the railway bridge or have the engineers check it. The bridge certainly didn't appear to have been messed with, and he wasn't sure that would have occurred to the civilian governor.

Whatever might of been, wasn't. They had caught the enemy at maneuver, and they'd been faster to move to engage. The cars first, and then the company deploying. If the enemy was moving, and expanding their position then they needed to be faster still, and capitalize on the situation. To that end there wasn't time to unfold the railway map and set the campaign table out. The company needed to be across the river. The railway bridge crossed and provided road access to the market square, and since it was empty would make a sufficient park for the artillery.

Allen turned to his right, "Colonel, signal the battalion, we're about seven miles north Cole's position, I want the artillery limbered." The lighter guns wouldn't be able to reach that whole span, but there were no tall buildings here except those built with foreign capital, and the sales of stocks and bonds on European and American markets the previous decade before the Qing had fallen. They could rotate and present for elevation with the current trails would give just under, about six and a half miles. That would have to be enough.

"Should I direct additional forces over the bridge?"

He shook his head, "No, let the major learn the trade." Putting the artillery on cars would take an hour and bringing them down here and offload, by then the fighting would be done, given what was going on across the river.

"Oh, oh they've broken, they're running for it." Percy remarked leaning slightly forward.

Loath as Allen was to admit it, it was the bayonets really that had started the route, something visceral there of contending with their enemy up close like that. The enemy morale had been shaky as it was, but once the second platoon had started to yell that had been the start.

Running was too late now. The difference between an infantry machine gun squad, and a truck with a protected machine nest in a turret was that the latter could carry ammunition and a water cooled gun further, and faster. Lewis's magazine fed snake was a charm, but the heavy machine gun had a different tactical niche.

The problem was the size of the city, and its surrounding environs. They were going to stretch their line far, and even then it might not be enough. There were going to be gaps. The older manchu officer was already getting the regimental engineering company on the horn. A few minutes later the regimental communications had simply called Cole's command post at town center train station to find out what was going on... which struck Allen as surrel in the midst of two presumable regiments fighting over the city... but that the phones still worked.

"And that is their report." The staff officer concluded. "Mortars abeing used to suppress what are believed to be the enemy's maxim positions." Which suggested that Zhu's machine gun brigade, or however he had arranged them were very close. "It does appear that , yes an effort to take the preparatory school."

"Details?"

Nothing solid, really could be ascertained. There was no explanation as to why Zhu considered that a priority enough to redirect troops. The most generous interpretation was of course the civilian governor of the province as so terrified of revolutionary sentiment, or foreign aligned sentiment he viewed the school as a primary point... but that was insane on the face of hard contacts, and facing resistance in the city center.

The advance over the river was the priority, and a second forward staging position though, that was the immediate priority.
--
The day wearing on allowed them tom pack and move machines, and men... which of course brought other issues, "John Allen you can't do that." Percy protested.

Apparently the moving up of the surgery cars connected to the train engine should have been done separately of the flatbeds redeploying the battalion's artillery. Thus instead of having time to break for lunch Percy was giving him the nth degree for some faux pas against European sensibilities that Allen hadn't even realized he must have made. Percy had been increasingly prone to fits since coming, back... he hadn't been like this before he'd shipped off to Switzerland after the war had begun. "And what by god, am I not supposed to be doing?"

There was a long shuddering sigh, and Allen ignored the melodrama to look at Nakamichi equally perplexed... thankfully they were spared any of the other 'observers' most of the scandinavian ministers and the handful of midwestern Americans had remained at North Station. "John Allen it violates the treaties governing war to transport hospital and weapons of war together."

"Percy the damn cars all came down together."

"Yes, but we're actually engaged in combat now, you can't move medical personnel alongside, they're protected by the laws of war where as the artillery are a combat arm."

... and thus were fair game "Nakamichi?"

"I believe Graves-san is referring to the Geneva convention."

Allen nodded, glad that he'd asked rather than just smarted off that the states hadn't agreed to turn war into a sporting competition by not signing the St Petersburg convention. Some dickering back and forth followed, and the jist of it became apparent that Percy was holding the matter out as if England's unique interpretation of the treaty conventions were the definitive understanding. "Whats your take?"

"I do not disagree that between treaty powers that would be a conservative, and cautious reading of the agreement. I do not think that the treaty applies to police actions." Nakamichi sipped from the field cup, "This is an internal matter in contending with an attempted coup d'etat, not one between signatories, thus Zhu Zhibao's troops can't really be considered -"

"That's not the point at all." Percy declared loudly, "That!" He pointed back to the train car, "Clearly has signage on both sides, saying hospital. It is clearly marked with a red cross. You can't use them the same as deploying artillery, or other troops the front."

He didn't need this headache. Oh he understood the sentiment behind it just fine. In 1913 the British army had had been half a million men split in half between their reserves equivalent, and the regulars. It was all fine for King George to talk about having trains for this and that, and never the twine should meet. "Well what would you suggest Percy. I suppose we could take the crosses down, would that satisfy you?"

The Englishman's mouth clapped shut like a steel trap, "Well, that would be legally sufficient, but really you could just keep them separate." He said that as if that were an easy thing. There were limits to the number of engines in the fleet, and track space. Zhengzhou was a medieval city which had had the modern world grafted on to it. There simply wasn't room.

He was spared further discussions on the finer parts with the arrival of additional dispatches ahead of the hour turning. That let him retire into the radio car of the train with a couple of staff officers, and enlisted men manning the telegraphs, and telephones. In normal days, when people weren't shooting at them, these cars were used to coordinate the engineers usually as they strung lines parallel to the tracks, or while they conducted repairs to existing railway bridges in the spring. The radio in the car was new, the actual train car had been designed to run the wiring into boxes that you could then connect in field lines.

He looked at the measurements that the radio broadcast had been used to calculate their position. Three known points in town from each of their stations gave them an answer of unknown location. A pin had been placed to signal where the market was, and the distances written out on the black board. They would have to offset that to accommodate that the market was to the eastern side of the rail line. A second pin, lacking numbers, indicated the equivalent train car attached to the battalion headquarters of 2nd Btn of the first regiment, though it was just as likely the lieutenant colonel commanding the battalion could have directed from the western station. The river they had crossed had a long bend in it, if you went west, the course was flowing northward to the point that the rail bridge in the west spanned the same river before the line made it to the central station. The difference were the 3 inch guns on the western side could stay on the other side of the river.

They wouldn't need to be relocated over the river, once deployed their battery could reach easily to town center, while the infantry defended the river approaches, and advanced. If this had been Sun's lot then they would have probably had the option to withdraw south all the way to Hankou... cutting Zhu off from north and west though raised questions about how he might try and disengage. Further into the province seemed unlikely, especially with the disposition of the gentry still an unknown, even so there was the possibility they would fall back east to Kaifeng, but proceeding down the rail to Shandong... seemed unlikely ... but if they then that would been them well afield. Only railway made that sort of retreat possible, but Zhu's forces hadn't withdrawn last night, and he doubted they'd yield tonight and retire. That would no excuse not to post pickets as they closed the linkage as the two battalions converged with Cole's nominal one. In force terms, on paper there was a single Infantry Division, there were two brigades of artillery, and the gendarmes was in organizational name a brigade but truthfully even with first pick of graduates were a single battalion force of companies.


--
Notes: This is a fairly expansive timeline, and I mentioned last time various people die over hte course of it, and those deaths are often inopportune, for example historically, in the first half of the 20th​ century, lots of influential people die as a result of car accidents (I've made the crack that if I'm travel back to kill hitler, I 'll just use a car, no foul play will be suspected, whoops failed austrian artist get smacked by a porsche friends mourn, world goes on... and presumably we still have a big fight anyway), or who die of natural causes.

The timeline is modelled broadly out into the cold war, but as an example had Yamagata Aritomo, and Akashi Motojiro survived in this timeline, perhaps even with Akashi making prime minister what we might potentially have seen is in the mid twenties a north China-Anglosphere-Japanese anti communist alliance against the soviets. Now that would be potentially a result of other factors, that are a result of events between 1917-1921 that haven't yet been posted. The loss of certain people results in different steps in some cases. Yamagata, and Akashi weren't identical in political views but were in a position to better control things than Hayashi Gonsuke, or Terauchi or Inanzo Nitobe (and Nitobe in between apologies in the thirties was still supporting an anti-communist alliance, but by that point he was something a joke since by thirties you had a certain colonel running roughshod over Tokyo's orders in Manchuria, but that's down the road).

The other thing is that, it is a myth, even if its a key tenant of marxist propaganda, that China (or for that matter Imperial Russia) were regressing or stagnant. Modern research basically confirms that Imperial Russia was nicely recovering, and growing economically... before ww1, and China had a large volume of foreign investment, and that resulted in real income actually increasing up to the period of 1937... when Japanese attack and Mao's government and associated corruption and inefficiency basically ruined a lot of the foreign built heavy industry and resources. Deng when he comes to power in the late 70s does dumb things to, but he's really the reason China is the industrial power it is because Mao really devastated China beyond just the mess that Japanese invasion of the coastal sectors had done. This is best demonstrated in the twenty year period of the 'warlord era' 1912-1932 (right before Manchuria was annexed) per capita increases by ten percent (which in economic terms is pretty huge).

 

[ATP]

Russia after Stołypin reforms would become gradually first economy power after 1950.That is,i think,real reason wht Wall Street send Trocky &thugs there.

And,they made Japan widraw from Siberia in 1923,and gave it to soviets.Wladiwostok was keep by american troops,and handed to soviets.
After that,Wall Street buyed tsar gold,stolen church gold,private gold from soviets for weapons and luxury goods - when millions were dying from hunger.
If i were Russian,i would demand money from Wall Street for that.

China - i read,that USA used not only school,but also doctors to spread their influence there.

 

[Imperator Pax]

3rd​ July 1917
He had come back in to take a seat at hte railcar's map table after observing the situation that lay between them and the end of their line going south. He had seen plenty of the time being.

Cullen in what was probably either brazen arrogance, or intentionally done so as to shake enemy morale had his nominal 'brigade's' pipes committed to his forward line of contact. The bagpiper wasn't actually in the line of fire, but the noise was distinct from the rattle of Lewis guns, or the mix of 351 and 35 caliber Winchesters, Remington along with the occasional close in delivery of Browning shotguns defending the low wall which surrounded the far end of the square.

He'd been here in the spring, and Cole's troopers had turned it into a killing field. In what was not really a surprise the other black clad troops had a fancy banner emblazoned with characters. In this particular case the catchy branding they had declared them the 'pacification army' if he had read it right through the spotter's optic. This had become in a way Fredickburg assault against the heights in miniature. Not a comparison he liked making since while they held the heights in that analogy Zhu had the numbers to weather a situation of comparable losses, especially against Cole's force.

The Gendarmes were specialist light infantry in a combat role. Cole had reorganized parts of the anti-bai lang force that had been under his command, and been able to reallocate their 7mm Mauser rifles in inventory following the same reasoning that they'd given those weapons to his command in the first place. Logistical reasons, not having at the time enough reserves to be comfortable with in the standard larger 7.92 caliber... especially given the war. That would have changed in the coming year simply because they had more tooling ... would have changed, but hadn't yet.

That might end up being a good thing in this case. This wasn't the southern mountainous divide between Shensi and Szechwan. There had been skirmishes with some of Bai Lang's bandits who had fought as well bandits, though irregulars would be accurate, and that had taken place in the flagstone streets of old towns and cities similar to Zhengzhou, but not on this scale. Zhengzhou was positively ancient compared to Hanzhong in southern Shensi... there were other components. So far as the men were concerned this was different than fighting 'southern ruffians' and other 'poor troublemakers', the cultural expectation sat they were fighting other professional soldiers... and well so far as Allen could see professional might have been stretching the old Qing era and styled formations.

It had taken him time to figure out, but part of the reason the enemy were floundering was they were fighting like this was the 1870s. There were no squads, he wasn't even sure there were platoons as anything other than ad hoc groups of men. Zhu had come into this with men who might have been prepared to fight the war between the states, but not the fight they had actually found... a fight they probably hand't even been looking for.

Even if that was the case it didn't change the situation they were in. "They're pinned in," He commented not looking up at the other men, "Or at least these ones are." The black uniforms presented a problem. The 'Pacification army' had similar uniforms in cut to their own, but were black, because they were ultimately based on German jackets, and trousers... there were hold overs that the 'PA' had that theirs didn't ... but expecting to look for epaulets or at another fellas shoes was a stretch... and going by a lack of breast pockets might end up with their own men shooting each other for missing them.

It was already nearly eleven in the morning. The slow clearing advance of city streets given their manpower had forced them to move slowly, and the further south they moved the more spread out their rear guard became, field telephone be damned.

"The burning building we saw is a newspaper office." A staff officer reported. The major tentatively voiced the news.

That was a waste, it was nice modern building with good sightlines a couple men with mausers up there could have slowed them coming down the street never mind if you could have put a maxim or a lewis up on the cast iron railed balcony. "IS the fire at risk of spreading?" He inquired neglecting to voice the criticism even as he reached for the pen to note down the burning building's details.

"Not immediately, so far as we can tell."

Allen nodded, acknowledging the hedge of the statement. They didn't have time to organize a fire brigade... and whatever he might have thought of muckrakers taking a torching their workplace when you were in actual battle seemed... down right ridiculous. Even accounting the possibility that the Pacification Army had some reason to believe that the office was some anti-qing / restoration resistance which wasn't impossible they clearly had more important things to worry about facing a north south converging line. "So," he paused to consult the map and the pins stuck in it. There were a lot of them with two days of fighting to process, "They've invested the school, and the south market, but they didn't make it to the Hankow line transit station." The Belgian line was also clear, "We think their here?" He reached down to inside the overlap of two silk circles.

"Yes, general." An artillery captain replied stepping forward sharply. The red stripes on his trousers notable, pressed and clean.

"Color charges and ranging from both batteries?" He asked.

"Ranged," They lacked third battalion, and her battery, "Red smoke is ours, and Green for second. Standing by for the fire mission." Neither lieutenant colonel had issued his batteries to fire, and clearly the colonel of the regiment hadn't.

"Double check your math, see what fear you put in them with the ranging... and then given two minutes of continuous fire when you're sure." Allen replied. Hoping he wasn't about to flatten a bunch of the wrong people by accident.

The captain saluted, but didn't immediately step back as if he was weighing speaking up, but before he could be queried, gave a crisp acknowledgement right turned and marched from the staff room.

Allen glanced to the others, then flipped through his notes. Dawes's office had noted that the rate of fire for the regiment's three inch guns was ten rounds round sustained. Two hundred rounds of your choice in five minutes. They were going to call thunder down... in a city that had probably never heard modern artillery. He looked at the clock, and expected he'd have to ask for someone to give them something to work on.

The red legs must have been waiting for something to do as the batteries both north and west opened up nearly simultaneously. It would have been nice to have been able to actually see the colored smoke for the batteries. The red legs, probably after dickering over it, then executed their batteries tasking as the clocks gave the hour, impossible to hear as eight guns drummed.

"I want Baker to swing facing west, signal 2nd​ Battalion to come inward and into contact with any remaining enemy infantry." Infantry seemed to be what the enemy had besides a small detachment of maxims. "The objective to have second form on our western flank. Then we'll concentrate on removing the enemy remains to the east."

The second Battalion had crossed the river wholly uncontested and while the battery was over the river the colonel of the battalion had brought over his infantry companies, as well as his pioneer section so they were basically fresh, and the pioneers had already confirmed the rail line so the battalion supply could be brought over by engine. If he was going to make those sorts of aggressive deployments then he could come east in force.

Baker would have to screen the battalion flank until the 2nd's companies joined them. They wouldn't be able to effectively close the encirclement... and well since Belgium didn't seem likely to get out from German occupation any time soon pushing them east towards the Belgian financed rail line seemed effectively the best solution. He wanted them out of the city more than he wanted the Zhu destroyed after all.

Zhu had after been a pretty solid neighbor in various posts he'd occupied over the years. "There is another matter."

Finally, Allen mused, and glanced to the Regimental Staff Officer, "Chiang, I assume." Chaotsung had actually carried out the dissolution of the Chinese Parliament and most likely was commanding the Beiyang garrison, his normal position, and the command to which nominally speaking the Capital's Horse Guards belonged to. Paper attribution didn't necessarily mean anything for sure in a network of patronage that made spider webs look simple... but Chiang had put himself front and center in the political arena... and worse... "He has friends at the legation." The American one.... he probably had friends at the British one, but the American ties were the larger problem

... and on the third day of fighting if Reinsch didn't figure something out to do then someone was going to cable Washington. Then for certain there would be a whole other headache to contend with.
--

 

[ATP]

WW1 proved that massing artillery and firing by hours do not help much.You need range on targets,made short barrage,and attack just after that.Moving fire when your troops were moving.

 

[Imperator Pax]

WW1 proved that massing artillery and firing by hours do not help much.You need range on targets,made short barrage,and attack just after that.Moving fire when your troops were moving.

Click to shrink...

This is one of the things, basically in this timeline , representing that learning curve.

Like the Western Zhili campaign in early July of 1917 as part of the manchu restoration is an attempt to address in miniature a lot of the lessons learned or taught by world war 1 versus how previous wars had been fought.

So, yeah, artillery saturation with modern artillery throws 3000 rounds faster but there isn't really a point. Packed earth, concrete and trench works makes bombs in airburst not very effective. Walking barrages are more likely to hurt your own people even if you do have radios, but yeah if you try and do that the other guy takes shelter in a protective structure, and its a waste of your ammo (and wear on your guns). This is basically, in timeline terms, justifying adopting British triangular reforms, of the war on small scale, while also developing distinctly from them.

Xian is very much a technical specialist formation of Engineers / Artillery in terms of its parentage, much like the US Army was in the 19th century. There isn't an OCS to field officers yet(The US never reached its allocated quota of paper strength officers for the AEF, despite recalling a significant volume of prior service, and inducting other persons, and then rapidly downsized after the war, which all of those will be touched on in the timeline). The use of the train car as both headquarters and observation platform is very much a 19th century facet that happens in WW1 but is gone by ww2 (armored trains with artillery and such are a thing in the interwar) but yeah learning curve of how things change.

 

[ATP]

This is one of the things, basically in this timeline , representing that learning curve.

Like the Western Zhili campaign in early July of 1917 as part of the manchu restoration is an attempt to address in miniature a lot of the lessons learned or taught by world war 1 versus how previous wars had been fought.

So, yeah, artillery saturation with modern artillery throws 3000 rounds faster but there isn't really a point. Packed earth, concrete and trench works makes bombs in airburst not very effective. Walking barrages are more likely to hurt your own people even if you do have radios, but yeah if you try and do that the other guy takes shelter in a protective structure, and its a waste of your ammo (and wear on your guns). This is basically, in timeline terms, justifying adopting British triangular reforms, of the war on small scale, while also developing distinctly from them.

Xian is very much a technical specialist formation of Engineers / Artillery in terms of its parentage, much like the US Army was in the 19th century. There isn't an OCS to field officers yet(The US never reached its allocated quota of paper strength officers for the AEF, despite recalling a significant volume of prior service, and inducting other persons, and then rapidly downsized after the war, which all of those will be touched on in the timeline). The use of the train car as both headquarters and observation platform is very much a 19th century facet that happens in WW1 but is gone by ww2 (armored trains with artillery and such are a thing in the interwar) but yeah learning curve of how things change.

Click to shrink...

I read that they made walking barrage initially without radios,but synchronized wrist watches.Could work,i think.
For their opponent in China it must be nightmare.
P.S there was short China-soviet war before 1930,soviet used their version of Fiat 3000./T.18/ ,and chineese infrantry simple run.
Do not going to happen in this TL.

 

[Imperator Pax]

I read that they made walking barrage initially without radios,but synchronized wrist watches.Could work,i think.
For their opponent in China it must be nightmare.
P.S there was short China-soviet war before 1930,soviet used their version of Fiat 3000./T.18/ ,and chineese infrantry simple run.
Do not going to happen in this TL.

Click to shrink...

The wrist watch thing was to my understanding a mixed bag, and part of that was not just coordination of timing, but also Artillery didn't always have their rounds properly spaced, and if they're two miles behind the lines, and dropping rounds short thats hitting your own people, and b esides human error that also happened was in ww1, particularlyduring shell shortages you didn't have the best quality powder, and when it burn unevenly it would effect velocity . But yes, synchronized watches could and did work, but when it didn't your own arty is hitting leg infantry in the open
-
Oh definitely not in this timeline, the politic in Xinjiang are going to be very different and even if they weren't the border gore situation is pretty different in the soviet civil war, so the border conflict out west is very different, and we'll actually being going into Xinjiang's politics as the current Ma clique starts to distingrate (mostly because the Old Mas are very old; these are Qing era generals of the 1880s, and 90s who are very much getting on in years) by the the 1930s the Kansu Braves had completely just evaporated as a modern military formation, they broke and ran when facing the soviets it really wasn't a fight.

 

[Imperator Pax]

3rd​ July 1917
It was late in the afternoon as the five companies of infantry formed what was on paper a right angle, but on paper that missed the nuance town buildings made of of the field.. Their left side shored up with specialist units of the regimental level, but he would have been lying if the presence of more leg infantry wouldn't have been a reassuring thing. The red legs were bored now, they hadn't gotten much action, and there wasn't as much maneuver they were used to in pursuit of more mobile foes... that had been part of the whole reason for the combination of investing in tractors for the lighter guns as well as the universal cannon mounts... though economics played a role in both.

He looked over the top of the ten foot wall he was standing on to survey the front. All the while suspecting this was why some men smoked tobacco. "The red legs are chomping at the bit." He declared.

"Yes sir." The colonel responded, "Should I direct the sweep to begin?"

"That's your call, are the men ready?"

The colonel straightened, rod like, and saluted... and that was it. The objectives had been laid out. There were a few thousand yards between Abel and Cole's Van Force, which was how he had designated his forward most company in contact with the enemy. There were probably about three or four hundred men in between them. Part of this 'Pacification Army' black shirts protecting a Chinese fortune's worth of machine guns in what the eastern portion of the city.

He had half a mind to orient 1st​ battalion's artillery and have them clear out the park they were nested in with canister. Canister because high explosive risked damaging the canal and dykes even if the risk was slim. Making up his mind, and cognizant of the social repercussions he signaled to the artillery officer. "Range it. Make sure to use a lot of smoke." He paused, and glanced to the the regimental signals officer, "Have Abel ready to repulse them if they brindle."

"You're thinking they'll break, then?" The major questioned a little wide eyed, and crazy looking at the prospect of it coming to a shock action at the company level. As insane as it sounded sometimes when men broke under artillery fire, particularly fires they couldn't see, they moved forward into enemy contact and that was disorienting.... and disorienting was dangerous and had propensity towards the men injuring one another.

He shrugged, "Its possible." Allen replied and looked at the markings in his notes of where his left flank was positioned adjacent to Abel. The park wasn't flat ground, but there were a couple buildings north of it, and he was pretty sure that the 'PA' had emplaced in some of the other buildings south. He looked at the scratched out map. The offensive plan was to concentrate in the west and come across massing to turn concentrating their rifles to push the enemy east so they could bring Cole's gendarmes into close order.

Second Battalion's battery would, if it wasn't already moving, likely go ahead and limber to cross the river by train and come up... but it was possible their tractors would just drive down the street to support in close order direct fire. That would be the colonel's decision based on how he read the orders outlining the objective to link with their center force.

That was the question. As tightly packed as the rows of building were the... situation in Chunking in a real fight made sense. Plenty of these houses were fragile to fire as it was, it was why the Qing penalty for arson was what it had been before the judicial reforms had just made it a hanging offense. Artillery turning lose would have been enough to flatten entire neighborhoods and clear sightlines at a cost to the civilian body... he'd never understood Elliot's restraint in 1840, the prohibition on canister and shot still seemed ridiculous, but he was willing to make allowances for some of the man's other tactically foolish decisions at the moment.

The red smoke was visible in the distance, from the ground, never mind once it started drifting up. There wasn't much wind at the moment. The canals were a tactical impediment to movement giving the defenders in the park good protection. If they were going to attack they'd almost certainly have to come west and then attack north. The new gun mounts could traverse relatively quickly if it came to that, but they'd have a narrow margin to do anything. At least if they wanted to avoid the housing.

There was the possibility of bringing the regimental scouts in and hem them in place so that they'd either have to abandon the park and fall back to the south as the rifle infantry companies came. Like the gendarmes the 'wolf hunters' were specialist light infantry. The regimental unit recruited from experienced class A veterans with two or more years of service and excellent marksmanship scores to fill out a company element with scoped mausers much as Cole had organized his specialists, and corporals during the quintessential wolf hunt of 1914.

The problem was the railway, if they broke out of the park it was a mile at best to the rail line... because well that was just how they had laid the tracks and in those years ago he hadn't expected to consider the military ramifications in favor of stretching wide rails that would support a fast travelling steam locomotive carrying goods.

The reality was they were probably going to have to mount an assault to force those black shirts from the park. He didn't see any other way to make sure they weren't in the rear when Abel advanced to press the other forces south, to link with Van... and there was the fact Cole was deployed probably almost four miles deep in places if you counted scattered skirmishers in multistory buildings... which he was sure he would get the nth degree for from Reinsch of military expediency... and possibly the Belgian consul, and the French... and whatever others....

The dispatch arrived informing him that second battalion was in four thousand yards of Cole's western most pickets. Two miles and change. The infantry was swinging to advance to them and form on the western line to the station. The question now stood whether there was enough daylight left to push them or if on the fourth of July if this would continue. He wondered if defending a largely static defensive line if Waite and the Second, regiment, were having nearly as much trouble with manpower.

He frankly doubted it with batteries pulled from first brigade Waite had ... frankly probably more men than they'd Xian with against Bai Lang's substantively larger force than what they had presently seen from Zhu... which raised the question of of whether Chiang would be coming down with more men. There had interestingly enough b een no comment from Peking. Zhu Zhibao had not made any official overtures, and they hadn't heard from Duan Qirui in a direct capacity... though Cao Kun had made some mouth noises about 'good works' and stuff.

Percy was suspicious that Duan Qirui was more worried about losing Anwei to Zhang Xun's allies to the south of his position and what that might mean both for his supporters and resources, and in particular what and how Britain might respond.... of course it was also Percy talking so his emphasis on the British position was to be expected. Anwei wasn't the only concern. Zhejiang, and Jiangsu were also of course. Hangzhou, and Nanking, as well as the international settlement of Shanghai were potential seats of unrest that would likely be hostile to either Beiyang faction regardless of who was winning.

... but all that was two hundred miles east, and not their problem... and that distance was greater in real terms of travel than the ease to which they could ride a train to Tietsin. Anything south of the Yangtze might as well have been another planet, but he had promised to Nakamichi an attempt to keep the line Qingdao open if they could ... admittedly not entirely altruistic since with Zhang Xun's Wu Wei parked on the rail lines east of Peking Qingdao was access to the sea.... and of course access to Shandong meant Weihaiwei which of course was of interest to Percy. Nakamichi had assured them that just holding the rail line to the border would be enough, Percy would have preferred they went the whole distance till they were in sight of Royal Marines... Percy was gonna have to make do.

He turned to glance at Shang heading up his staff officers contingent. The Manchu colonel had collected the other dispatches, and had leafed through them. The time tables were the best they could manage. "Can we set the roadblocks?"

"2nd​ Battalion has spare trucks," Allen nodded at the statement, knowing that was a mix of Quads, and Fords bought about this time a year ago, "we can emplace the remaining regimental machine guns, and armored cars." He answered, and flipped a page showing a different sketched map, indicating the lines goings over the rail, and the main thoroughfare in the 'modern' city center where the southern most company would come abreast of Cole's fords, a few hundred yards north of the rail line. "The machine guns are having to break charges in close distances, but the streets are only so wide." Bayonet charges didn't work against drilled and dug in defenders, especially ones with machine guns. "We can pour spotlights into the night forward, but I do not see how we could move on the school."

Allen didn't either. He wasn't about to issue a night time raid... no they'd probably have to talk Zhu's troops out rather than carry an assault on the school. "I'll tell Percy he can talk to whoever Zhu has put in charge over there, and bottle them up." He tapped the map, where a hash mark indicated a known enemy machine position, "Are you sure this machine gun here is isolated."

"Yes, sir." It had some supporting infantry but somehow or another the suspected maxim gun had been left in a salient that was in the north facing 1st​ battalion, it was basically in the middle between where Abel and Baker had advanced to. "There is no way it can be reinforced by the enemy." Which wasn't necessarily true, a force could have relieved it with sufficient numbers... and there was the chance that...

"If its still there in the morning Its going to need to be silenced."

"Mortars?"

"That'll do it." The older manchu colonel saluted.

--
Notes: One thing to note here versus for example with draft two of this story is the much more obvious manpower difference. In the second draft of this story, when the Manchu Restoration happens is that Shang as senior most colonel is commanding an entire infantry brigade (six battalions) in the Western Zhili Action. In that version cadre forces are significantly larger to reflect a scenario where they did actually vote to move to three divisions (at the time of two brigades each, and then later moved to brigades as independent specialist 'Regimental Combat Team' esque structures, like we will see here, with divisions being three regiments, and historically the US had been using these kinds of organizations since the Mexican American war, in the Civil War the regimental level combined arms unit is called a legion).


Here, Xian has less men under arms in 1917 but has made the doctrine change over earlier and is preparing for an expansion, they just didn't expect 'surprise the monarchy is back on!' to happen in the following summer. In both versions Regiments remain as the principle Xian unit of large organization. Brigades and later divisions are organizational units by and large, up until really 1927... which ironically is provoked by a battle over Zhengzhou as a city, and who's strategy is dictated by previous lessons.

Xian's units in 27 move to deploy south of the city to stop an advance so that they don't have to be in urban combat. Here its very slow moving, because neither side has that kind of large volume of manpower, you have lots of roads and streets, you have lots of river crossings. The city of the period had lots of small bridges, lots of parks, lots of temples, old buildings, walled compounds, big open air markets a built up suburban area , and also a big 'modern area' with the railways and telegraphs, shopping centers and coffee shops being scrunched into the old city... and Henan gentry were not one hundred percent on board with that. (Neither were a lot of gentry, you had lots of protest about home rule, again in Zhengzhou particular case the central government had come in basically grafted the city into Zhili under direct administration due to national interests, its actually kind of surprising that Yuan Shikai chose to build the Kung Sian arsenal near Kaifeng and not in Zhengzhou the only explanation that I can think of is that probably it was a measure of reusing existing Qing military apparatus but that is a guess on my part.

 

[ATP]

If i was defender with relatively small number of people,then,instead of bigger units,i would use small groups around sniper - few man to keep him safe,and sniper to kill- or even better,injure - enemy solduers and then change position.
Attackers could not made uniter front,after all,so such groups should be mostly safe.

P.S i knew,that chineese do not have snipers - so,gave best rifles to hunters and use them as snipers.

 

[Imperator Pax]

4th​ July 1917
The trains had issued resupply of ammunition to the battalions... and that did seem to be one of their advantages was that they had access to ammunition. The supply train also served as expanded bivouac and maintenance. It was hospital, chow hall, chapel, and the like, necessary for men who were getting their first taste of committed battle..

Stokes' three inch might not have had the legs for distance work but they were useful for suppressing machine guns dialed. The black shirts manning the maxim though were tenaciously holding on. He frankly doubted that these were the civilian governor's troops... more likely this was a detachment of Chiang men, or more likely still Zhang Xun sending wuwei corp troops.

The Maxim's gunners had attempted to open back up as 1st​ battalion had started to advance that morning. It was independence day 1917. There tenacity was to be commended even if they should have fallen back... and so the mortars went thump thump thump as the tubes launched.

With the attack underway there was nothing to do but to step back and let the platoon commanders, and company commanders, and their senior enlisted do their job. The two battalion commanders should have adequately laid out for their men the mission objectives expected for the morning. There were other issues to contend with. "Our next objective will be to secure the city." He commented, perhaps unnecessarily to the assembled officers as they began to the process of the motions needed to be undertaken to do that.

There were two distinct personalities foremost among the potential problems. They were Honan's military and provincial governors. The first, Zhao Ti, had declared independence at the end of march, publishing a declaration to the effect from Peking... but he hadn't acted on the city. There was no indication he was going to, but he also hadn't moved against Zhu either. The civilian governor had held the other job previous. Tian had troops at Kaifeng, and was by all reports garrisoning the provincial arsenal... though there had been similar reports that Zhao was as well... so it wasn't cler if they were working together or if the one or possibly both reports were wrong... but the Kung Xian had been only operational for a little over a year now. Yuan had set aside funds for it to supply Beiyang army units... and while it probably didn't have any rifle production is housed... an estimated two million rounds of rifle ammunition.

Enough ammunition to have whichever of Honan's local troops well supplied with bullets... which was the problem, because there was no clear third person on the roster. The hongwei battalions were lead by local gentry from a tradition going back to the taiping fighting and while they were doubtless any closer to full strength than Zhu was that wasn't a fight he looked towards getting into.

"Zhang Xun's troops?"

"That is what it seems like." He replied after the pins had been put in. Allen spared a glance to the car window, the train was stationary of course. The surgery was in use, and the expanded cars occupied with wounded. He couldn't garner the losses Zhu's forces must have taken from the artillery. They were behind the lines. Artillery in indirect had wiped out whole city blocks, termed whole buildings into splinters as high explosive charges ripped through. "I suppose Zhang must have assumed he needed someone with some spine." A spine they needed to snap... any realization that queue wearing black shirts were holding would make Zhu's troops more stalwart even in the face of artillery fires reigning. "We'll sweep them from the side was the second brings its south flank inward."
--
The Regimental scout company that took their name from the 1914 bandit hunt were quite literally proned out on top of the train cars sitting on the line, that the park was itself in something of a sloping depression gave them a little extra height as they overlooked the enemy.

During the war against Spain the official directive from the war department had been that a division should be three brigades of three regiments... lack of readiness and available manpower, and lack of sufficent modern arms had stymied that organization. At one point there had been an entire army corp that had barely eight thousand men in the detail. Allen exhaled the breath and took up slack on the two stage trigger until he felt resistance.

... that was he supposed why they had graduated his class early.

There was a clean break, and the gun boomed, recoiling into his shoulder. The Federal Army back home would have considered it unthinkable in peace time to have command level officers engaged in such things... and most likely Washington had detailed some lickspittle to keep Pershing from from the front and from participating in the fighting. Black Jack would not be allowed a place on the front no matter how much he brindled... and that would probably make him more aggressive than less when he landed in France.

It was unlikely that Wilson had consciously considered that, but Lansing probably knew damn well what it would do.

John Pershing and the Secretary may as well have been a world away.

There was a grunt, "A little left." The RPF man in sergeant stripes observed. "Not enough to miss," He added adjusting the glass.

Allen affirmed the wind call as he looked over the park's low wall. The four magnification of the german glass was clear enough at this distance he could just make the hazy shape of a hand in the grass near the long shadow of what probably the man's rifle.

In the war between the states sharpsshooters, snipers, jaeger, and a whole slew of other terms had been employed to refer to formations of men on both sides across the entire war equipped and engaged to fight as specialist riflemen. These had ranged from independent companies, small units of men, all the way to nominal brigade strength formations. The organization of all varied from one another, and in the subsequent Federal Army such marksmanship training was a matter of regimental discretion.

The enemy were looking this way now though. The other rifles started to open along their salient projected south following along the rail line. The regiment was designed to operate as a self contained unit, and the nucleus for sub operational units... serving as headquarters and direction, logistics, to the battalions.

The division had existed in the war with Spain though had basically after simply existed on paper. The War Department had directed the army to promulgate tables for the army. Tables dated from may had reached the 15th​ infantry division in Tietsin. There were similarities of course, but the new American Line Division for the American Expeditionary Force was a massive beast, comparable in size to its Japanese equivalent. And rather than size down, they were talking about adding a few more men to it.... to the tune of twenty eight thousand men.

If the European theater divisions reached that allotment they would be double the paper strength of their division. It would be a ponderous giant comprised of a teeming mass of rifles... but Black Jack could probably wrangle it.

He racked the bolt home and moved towards one of the manicured trees that was now painted blue from the signaling charge of a ranging shell. The man behind the branches took the round into his side and tumbled over.

They had discarded the brigade as part of the division, but the regiment was roughly the same manpower as a US one. As soon as they got home they were going to have to start new classes, fresh recruiting cycles. Every flea bitten mongrel in south china could smell blood, and another fight would be on the horizon.

"Sir?"

He felt more than saw the sudden flank, but he also heard the pipers play. Cullen's Van Force was committing its Madsens as they leapfrogged up to the south western garden wall of the park. "Tell Abel." He ordered.

They needed to wipe out this pocket, and quickly. There was the preparatory school as well, as if Percy hadn't reminded him enough about that. That would be negotiated out though, they just needed Zhu out of the city and away from the rail lines. Whether or not Percy could talk them into departing remained to be seen but leaving a garrison here to bottle up and besiege a position, regardless of how poor he suspected the Royalist supply was, ws already a subject that had been discarded from discussion. The priority was to secure Zhengzhou and stabilize the division in the event something else went wrong... which was a problem since they were presently sitting on a shipment of weapons Lloyd George had ordered for the Australians that would need to be delivered to a port and put on a British ship... Allen suspected that the Legation in Tietsin knew that the shipment was in Zhengzhou's central station, and were alarmed at the prospect of the royalists potentially getting their hands on them.

... especially given Percy's outlandish notion Zhang Xun was pro Germany in his foreign sympathies.
--
Notes: this is somewhat shorter, but directly leads towards the August recruitment initiative and the forthcoming meeting in the coming week with Yan Xishan over political arrangements, both of which impact the creation of 2nd​ Division and the broader National Guard as institutional body.

Regarding snipers, US sniper doctrine varies between the USMC and USA (and then the Navy, and to a lesser extent the Coast Guard, and Air Force are weird) and for most of US history US marksmanship/sniper/sharpshooter programs were unit local (ussually the regiment), the US has a history of these programs, but probably due to the emphasis of rifle marksmanship and the impact that had in service rifle development the modern US Army program is a late cold war program. The previous programs were cancelled for various reasons usually after the completion of hostilities (i.e. Whoever were fighting with at the time, Germany, Germany, Korea, Vietnam). So institutionally in the US its historically a regimental association, 'get me the best riflemen in the regiment', which generally meant you were pulling hunters, or other specialists from all over the formation and throwing them together with their own rifles and this lasted from 1820ish at least to into Vietnam instances, were your regiment basically decides to shove a scoped rifle, now by the time 1960s the army has learned some of the lessons of Korea and the fifties so there more professionalization. Its a really weird part of army history compared to what we're used to modern day, where its a standardized army school rather than having each regiment do their own thing.

 

[ATP]

3 brigades with 3 regiments? they are not dyvisions,but corps.
And snipers in other armies was even worst - for example,Poland in 1939 do not have them,and best schooters get AT rifles/very good - you could buy them for China before WW2 here - enough for al japaneese tanks/

 

[Imperator Pax]

3 brigades with 3 regiments? they are not dyvisions,but corps.
And snipers in other armies was even worst - for example,Poland in 1939 do not have them,and best schooters get AT rifles/very good - you could buy them for China before WW2 here - enough for al japaneese tanks/

Click to shrink...

There is a reason the US went away from that fairly quickly, it just was not feasible long term. Major manpower problems, you can't reasonably field fifty sixty thousand men in a single formation and expect to have control on the battlefield, like its one thing as a theater command, but yeah, it exists for the Spanish American war, and then the war department was like... 'yeah this was dumb'.

For example the US in its actual WW1 AEF configuration is going to (after summer 1917) to a division of two brigades, of two regiments, which is still twenty eight thousand men on paper big emphasis on rifle strength, like the French, and British response tried to tell Pershing this wasn't a good idea. The Japanese Infantry division of the period is basically equivalent in size.

Xian is basically going to a Brigade is a combined arms unit of a Regiment of one service, and a Regiment of another (so that would typically be infantry and artillery), and a XIan division is three Infantry regiments plus support. Right now there is only the single division, and brigades are basically independent regimental units

 

[ATP]

There is a reason the US went away from that fairly quickly, it just was not feasible long term. Major manpower problems, you can't reasonably field fifty sixty thousand men in a single formation and expect to have control on the battlefield, like its one thing as a theater command, but yeah, it exists for the Spanish American war, and then the war department was like... 'yeah this was dumb'.

For example the US in its actual WW1 AEF configuration is going to (after summer 1917) to a division of two brigades, of two regiments, which is still twenty eight thousand men on paper big emphasis on rifle strength, like the French, and British response tried to tell Pershing this wasn't a good idea. The Japanese Infantry division of the period is basically equivalent in size.

Xian is basically going to a Brigade is a combined arms unit of a Regiment of one service, and a Regiment of another (so that would typically be infantry and artillery), and a XIan division is three Infantry regiments plus support. Right now there is only the single division, and brigades are basically independent regimental units

Click to shrink...

In that period theiy still belived in elan,so that is why so much riflemans.
And - during Balcan wars bayonett charges usually worked.

Later it changed - i read memories from WW2,unit was still considered as combad-worthy even when lost 50% of soldiers,as long as their artillery,mortars and HMG teams still existed.
Becouse they inficted most loses on enemy,not rifles.

 

[Imperator Pax]

5 July 1917
Gun fire had echoed long into the night. Not that it had been exceptionally effective. The firecrackers Cole had sent up, presumably that had been in storage for the Fourth of July had been sent up as well had potentially hd just as much of an effect on the enemy as any occasional burst of machine gun fire sent into their general direction.

Percy certainly hadn't appreciated it... but morning had come and the pickets relieved. The englishman rubbed his eyes, and reached for the black coffee without complaining. "The city is effectively ours." Which was true barring small pockets of resistance in the city center. Zhu's territorial defense battalions simply weren't equipped to stand up to a slugging match with modern infantry, never mind the combination of infantry supported with rapid firing cannon. He had lasted longer than he had any right to do.... "He can't last much longer."

"Its the city around us. If this was open field we'd have been done two days ago," If not sooner, "the city slows down movement, the buildings restrict how and where are artillery can move. Its worse than fighting in a fog." What was worse as that Zhu might have in total another one or two battalions of cavalry, and possibly two to as many as ten battalions of infantry even if they were understrength... and so this needed to end today. "With our positions in contact though this ends today."

Nakamichi nodded with poise and solidarity at the statement, but said nothing. They still weren't going to have the manpower to deploy units into the neighboring province, and Tietsin was still blocked because Zhang Xun was sitting on the Zhili network that ran everything through Peking.

The smart move was to wait. Wait until something happened. Wait until the rail line to the ports reopened and hand over the weapons to a British flagged ship... but it would have to be at Weihaiwei or at Tietsin... that much weaponry, modern weaponry sending it to Shanghai was out of the question.

There was a pause before Percy assured them that the Legation, the British Legation, was sure that their numbers on Zhu's forces were accurate at least in terms of nominal organization. "They're undisciplined in an open fight they fail against proper soldiers." Nakamichi replied, highlighting how frail their forces were even with superior numbers to facing a bayonet charge. He left them to their disagreements stepping outside of the train car.

They were starting to see the town citizenry come out again. Either they had some sense that the battle was largely concluded, or that after the past couple days they were willing to risk peeking outside and chancing a visit to their neighbors to see how things were across town. It was a complication to the mess that they didn't need.

Cullen eased off the side of the car pushing his Stetson up, and offering his customary greeting, "They at it again?"

"Is that surprising?" Percy, and Nakamichi both looked at the world through different lenses and both came up with different conclusions.

"I guess not. Waite phoned in, the regiment has the northern rail line locked down."

"Was there a serious attempt to push this morning?"

Cole shook his head, "I don't think so, he fended off a handful of probes but I think whoever is in Baoding seems to have stopped... Waitie suspects that's because Duan is claiming to have mustered fifty thousand men to," He chuckled, "pardon me, to protect the republic."

"Where is word of that circulating?"

"The papers, Tietsin, Shanghai hit the wires two hours ago. Duan is meaning it for the international quarters obviously," The division between north, central, and southern china were such that there were various degrees of involvement. "On the other hand, I gather from the rumbling he must feel the need to talk to the other Beiyang leaders... the ones who haven't picked sides yet."

Anhui was still up in the air as the situation remained unclear in the province. "Duan also has to do something before Zhang can concentrate his forces. If the rest of the Wu Wei corp makes it to Peking it'll be a disaster."

Cole frowned, "He'd need Japanese trains for that," To bring them in from the north eastern provinces of Manchuria," and I don't think that will happen. Especially if there is German involvement on Zhang's behalf." They didn't know enough to disprove it, but the insinuation alone might be enough to delay trains for maintenance or some such, or to cite some other sudden issue that would cause a disruption of service. "Think Percy can talk them out of there?"

"You that eager to send them in?" Allen nodded towards a squad of men in black uniforms with winchester rifles who looked like they were chomping at the bit for the next round of action. "I'm certainly against trying to mount an assault." He added.

"I don't think they'd be expecting us to come in, I think we could take them in the night."

"You're going in there?"

"Yeah, I think I am." Cullen rested a hand on the sheathed pistol. "Go in quick, hit them short rifles, and shotguns, pistols on the door. We've busted the grain union," The green gang, "dens open like before,"

"This is different."

Cullen shrugged, "Yeah, yeah I guess it is. Percy doesn't get them out of there, we're going to have to go in Brother John they set the newspaper office on fire, you don't think they might get desperate and do the same."
--
It had been a while since he had done something like this... and in the Philippines he'd have preferred to take the cover of night. "I could give another try." Percy remarked as the mag slid into the water buffalo hide scabbard, even as the generators hummed. They powered the arc lighting glaring balefully at the windows of the finishing school as spotlights, which given it was cloudy made them somewhat more effective.

It was about two in the afternoon, and even with the clouds the mercury claimed it was about ninety degrees.

Percy assuming that they hadn't heard his offer started again, but Allen shook his head. "Cole's right, we need to go in. You said you only saw ten of them."

"There could be more." There probably were but that was alright. "They do have guns you know."

"But they were in uniform?"

"Well yes." The englishman remarked.

He looked at the building, and its wrought iron Victorian construction.... it was ridiculous he decided that they referred to any single architecture style as Victorian the woman had reigned for sixty odd years she'd seen the states invade mexico, the war between the states, France invade Mexico, the states fight spain, the british fight the boers not once but twice, and never mind however many fights that the British had had in China during that period... and that was just the army never mind what all else had changed as armies had made the leap from smoothbore to rifle, to black to smokeless from paper to brass.

Allen rubbed his thumb over the two hundred grain hollow point. He pushed it into one of the magazines for his Remington, as Cole smacked Percy giddily on the shoulder, "The Jaegers not going in will cover the windows, their gewehrs will thump anybody with funny ideas." Cullen was intentionally using German... albeit with a west texan accent to needle Percy in the moment. They decided not to tell him that the wolf hunters who were in place across the way had already counted more than ten or even fifteen in the upstairs. The men upstairs didn't seem very attentive... they seemed to have, as Percy had noted, found the staff's liquor stash.

"Come on Cole leave 'em be." Cullen followed his glance to the two storey structure. "Which wing do you want to take?"

Breaching occurred as with any sort of building, they tried being quiet at first. A hui corporal with a shotgun jimmied the west lock, and that got them in. He swept his browning across the hall, allowing two men with Remingtons to then push inside letting allen form his first firing section in the school hallway. The second half the nominal rifle squad included a pair of aid men and the mongol charged with making sure they didn't need to use their pistols if it could be avoided.

It was a lovely white washed building from the outside, but the prepatory school was a sight better apportioned than the confines of West Point where he had graduated, even if the academy had transitioned from gas to electric lighting by then. It was very clean, and bright that was marred by broken glass and a handful of broken doors. He flashed the Lakota hand signs that had been used in the Philippines and since adopted here signaling the point man to wait as the gray clad soldier lit his cigarette. He'd been half way to turning, probably to check the door when the gunshot rang from the other end.

Rather than fire one of their own the Manchu on point grabbed the smoker by his queue yanked him backwards and bashed down with his Remington's stock breaking the man's nose. It proved to be unnecessary there were no further shots, and they froze in place. Another wait hand sign, and he ran through what might have happened.

The gunshot had been inside... but just the one... it had been a pistol. There had been no way that had come from even a comparatively mild rifle report like the Winchesters... probably not forty five. A mauser or an FN most likely... but that still could have been one of Cullen's troopers.

Waiting wasn't going to work and inside the lecture hall one of the soldiers inside was getting impatient, presumably shouting for his friend to figure out what was wrong.

Stay low... which would be harder for him than anyone, but the smallest man in the element was still five seven with biceps more akin to tree trunks. The rifle team divided with the second half remaining as they transitioned into the hall.

Bolt action rifles, a mauser pistol, what looked like a spanish number 3 smith tucked in a cavalry sash. Allen breathed bringing the thirty five around and putting the barley corn on the officer's neck from where he was angrily shouting at the doorway demanding to know what was going on.
The queued officer, a cavalry captain from his rank markings and the backing it was on squinted and then there were a handful of rifle reports from the other end.


Allen pulled his off hand off the forend and make the plains directive to attack, and rose in the same motion.

Browning's thirty five tore out most of the man's neck and jaw as it sped through and into the blackboard. The two other remingtons in the lead did similar damage in the thirty or forty feet distance to head, and shoulders.

The six men with rifles dropped the officer slumped back behind the lectern as a third of the half squad pushed forward down the lecture hall's steps leaving the last two men in rear guard. He made a counting gesture and directed towards the probably seventy or so students who were too busy looking at the gray uniforms and wondering what the devil was going on to realize they were dressed similar. He pushed back up the steps and peaked through to the hall before rejoining the second half of the squad. There was boom and he craned up, as he figured Cullen had been right about needing to cover the windows.

--

--
Notes: As a note to something mentioned previous, but Kung Xian is referring to the county. Its near... the arsenal was near Kaifeng, it was built in an old Manchu fort / military headquarters complex, but its name refers to the county its in not Xian (Xi'an, Sian) as in the city. So basically its the County Arsenal


So what has come up recently in discussion is Japan's pursuit of a cartridge to replace their 6.5SR cartridge the 'arisaka'. Now the Japanese also used the Carcano Cartridge, and 303, and obviously later would develop effectively a rimless 303 (performance wise) as well as use the 7.92 IS (8mm Mauser) and its the last one that has sparked the discussion in particular.

So Japan, like basically everyone (nation wise) was driven towards cartridge adoption for the purposes of running machine guns. There was even as early as the Russo-Japanese war complaints about the 6.5 Arisaka not having enough oomph (which is bullshit, thats shot place, more likely its less you hit the Russian soldier and he didn't die, versus, you missed). Anyway, the US is one of the few countries which made the decision to select rifle load not designed around machine gun needs and that is specifically because they had enough 3006 production where that was even an option. The Springfield and Browning 30 cals shoot the same full power 3006 loads but those will beat a garand to death eventually, the Garand was designed for a reduced power load, but thats more an exception as its as the tail end of this early 20th​ century phenmenon regarding rifle calibers.

So Japan's primary focus was on having a cartridge that would run machine guns, and this eventually resulted in 7.7x58 which is effectively rimless 303. People I know have asked why didn't the british do that, logistics, and scale. The british were looking at updating cartridges (in this story in particular you'll note that the American characters as that British dwarf when talking about the cartridge), people have also wondered why the British didn't go to 3006, against logistics and scale. This is also why it took so long for Japan to introduce 7.7 because the post war (ww1) economic slump, and the earthquake basically meant they couldn't. The money for the army wasn't there.

So the conversation eventually meandered to things that will happen in the early twenties. Specifically that Japan historically used the Lewis gun in 303, Xian manufactures the Lewis Gun in 8mm Mauser and as a result of this during the Russian Civil War Japanese troops who historically had Lewis guns are issued Lewis guns in 8mm. To make a short answer to a question, why would Japan not go ahead and adopt 8 Mauser?

The answer is the navy. In OTL the IJN was very anglophile in the early 20th​ century, you would have probably in 1910 probably had a better chance of them (specifically the IJN) adopting 3006 than 7.92, and by 1920 they had basically decided they weren't going to go that route. The army adopts 8mm Mauser specifically as a machine gun cartridge. Its a budget thing they weren't going to tool up to produce entirely new rifles especially by that point because the money was not there and because of navy interference.

 

[Imperator Pax]

5 July 1917
He grinned taking the steps two at a time. They were going up the stairs not down, and they no longer had the element of surprise. If he had to go through any doors, he'd slow down, and and come across but going down stairs was always easier than up. He'd already pushed another enfield style magazine into the remington's magwell, and the hunt was on.

The blood was up, and they were in it. Chances were Cole was in the fight as well. They had emplaced the men across the street close enough that with glass they could still make out faces, and thus the distinctions of men's uniforms. From the number of rounds fired since the shooting had started though the major in charge of the detachment must have decided he could best secure the objectives by going ahead and eliminating the drinkers on the second floor gallery while they were stupered.

So that left the question whether or not the leg infantry was pushing to the doors of either wing to start coming in behind them. They had figured that the best plan was to pull everyone out of the school if things went loud because if someone started a fire it was scarcely imaginable that they'd get the school cleared of a few hundred students and the staff in time otherwise.

The upper floor's landing was already a mess though, "Down," He shouted in English, rattling the basic command in imperative north chinese dialects. A gray uninformed man with epaulets didn't listen and took the business from the corporal's browning that painted the wall behind him a too red scarlet. The shotgun gave twice more in the hall's confines at men with 88s even as the corporal took over issuing commands to comply.

From the sound of it Cole was at the opposite landing engaging mixed pistol and rifle fire. The lieutenant in his own squad looked wide eyed, "From the number of officers there must be a whole company here, sir."

He shook his head as they stopped at a corner, "I don't think so lieutenant," The hadn't been seeing the right number of NCOs, or rather it seemed likely given what they were encountering lieutenants who were serving in roles that sergeants should have been in... because so far he wasn't seeing sergeants... but this was also a mix, "I think this is a mix of cavalry and infantry men, not a whole unit." A number of them men they'd had to shoot wore cavalry boots in distinction to their leg infantry counter parts.

Allen followed the look back to the stairs they'd come up. "Reinforcements are entering." The Lieutenant observed. Cole's gendarmes were probably coming up the other side as well.

"If there is a company in here, then we'll find out." But it seemed unlikely. Allen pushed the corner rifle slightly above his hip and high as he forced his vision to keep from narrowing to pin pricks as he found another riflemen. At about the same time he fired another Remington barked catching the man in the torso. The two shots pushing the soldier over the bannister and sending the rifle tumbling when it hit the ground the stock broke chipping a long sliver of the toe.

There were too many doors to cover though, and too many people rushing out of various rooms forcing him to call a halt before they pushed any further. The men outside with scoped rifles had stopped firing, suggesting either they'd cleared the gallery or any remainder had had the good sense to keep their heads down, and stay away from the windows. They certainly weren't attempting to return fire... but that raised the question of whether whatever rifles they had, were they pointed at the opposite side. Were they pointed at the doors coming into the upstairs gallery?

The doors to the gallery were big. That was a plus, and the defenders had supposedly been in varying states of intoxication when Percy had come out... Allen spared a look down at the receiver of the Remington, he wished there was a hand sign for reload, the closest was the command to make ready.... which was something of a nice catch all, but catch alls lead to confusion. The other option was to chain instructions passing man to man in the formation.

Entirely different than the sort of fighting that had characterized the July Action thus far. Then again these were not the line service riflemen either. He reiterated the make ready sign taking the partially empty magazine out, and putting in another of Griswold's ten rounders.

--
They had to break down more than one set of doors to clear the upper storey. A couple of college age students had been hogtied in a broom closet with their heads shaved recently, but overall not much worse for the wear. Contingent on the expectation that the troops securing the lower floor, and the men on the train cars and rooftops would keep the exterior windows cover the mix of gray and black uniform troops cleared the rest of the upper story.

"Leave the biggest one for last." He nodded at Cole's remark. The majority of Cullen's troopers were carrying Winchester 351 rifles, Cole was carrying a Griswold modified Remington. "If this is how fighting is going to be brother john this is going to be a problem." The Remingtons had been expensive guns to import, though as part of the deal inked in 1914 FN in exchange for cash they had the technical documents to produce them... but they'd already been doing that before... but the expense still existed in manufacturing.

Allen nodded, and turned to an infantry officer, "Signal that we're about to breach." that would let the rifles glassing the gallery know. He numbered off short sections that would push in, front, left right and then the aid contingent carrying the rear as Cullen did the same for the other door.

Once they were through the big doors they could push to corners and walls and funnel more riflemen in from reinforcing troops but those men would have full length bolt actions. Too long to be appropriate for the confines of building fighting.

He signaled ready, and the gesture was returned. The doors crashed opened within seconds and as a throng the demi platoon opened fire. A couple of defenders attempted to stand and either took frontal fire, or took rounds into their backs from the outside of the building.

In twenty seconds it was done. The gallery smelled of piss, shit, and vomit.

"What a pig sty." Cole grunted one of several who were making similar observations. A sergeant told the enlisted to shut up, and get moving before moving to body check a civilian attire westerner from coming forward.

"Mr Bohannon, Mr Forrest. I had thought that was Mr Graves earlier."

The sergeant grimaced., a gesture that Allen would have been happy to mirror, "Its fine get the rest of these boys out of here." They'd put together a grave detail to collect the dead from Zhang Xun for transport to the field cemetery outside of town. "And let Percy come in," He was chomping at the bit, and it made sense to just wait for the englishman.

That left them to wait and let the schoolteacher natter away. Allen had begun to tune him out as soon as the conversation turned to the school's literature curriculum, but the greasy, combed over, haired man started asking question. "I mean you have schools."

"We went to west point, it has a liberal arts department. I studied language and mathematics." The southerner neglected to mention that while Natural Philosophy had been on the campus it had been ignored in favor of the tactile pursuits of how to build... or explode... a bridge. He wondered if Congress would graduate next year's class early to contend with the European war... he'd heard already that there were predicted officer shortages and that new methods were to be tried.

The philosopher nodded, "and I am sure that must greatly impact your own curriculums. After all," He shakily chuckled, "One does teach what one knows."

"John Allen, ah jolly good." Percy made a show of checking his pocket watch, "You went in with great Elan, I should say. Nakamichi seems to think there is some problem effecting the running gears of Manchuria's railway, it came over the cable. The railway is about borrowing some kind of tension adjustment tool for them." Percy carried on in a tide of nonsensical jargon, as Nakamichi slunk quietly into the room.

Cole elbowed him and leaned over, "You think that call he placed to Korea."

"Was to Isaburo?" He was skeptical, "Maybe but."

"You don't think so?"

"Isaburo isn't the kind of man to suggest scuttling the trains," It was possible of course, but. "Whatever the case if those trains aren't running, that's fifteen thousand modern troops stuck too far north to do anything." It was always possible whoever was in charge of the south manchuria had put two and two together to get four and knew if they let the oil out of the bottle the lack of lubrication would mean the trains wouldn't be going very far.

Percy cleared his throat, "Gentlemen, give all the fuss, if you might join us all for an early tea time."
--
Notes: this gets us through the first portion of the Manchu Restoration. As ATL, this is more action than there actually was, for the most part none of the beiyang commanders were really that keen on actually shooting at one another and while there were small scale skirmishes Duan Qirui basically resolved things by telling Zhang he was outnumbered ten to one, and talked him down by using largely showy flash maneuvers (Duan had peking strafed by the handful of French aircraft Yuan Shikai had purchased before the war, dynamite was dropped. It did neglibile physical damage but it was a novel thing) rather than any real meatgrinding action. Zhang Xun was then basically allowed to retire, without real repercussions against his person.

Then Duan and Feng proceeded to get into an argument, but that is down the road. Anyway the July of 1917 arc still has a ways to go, Yan Xishan shows up, and there are some other matters, but the July Action here sets the precedent for a number of factors that form the institutional basis for Xian military doctrine... and why the Gendarmes [and other specialist / 'elite' elements] are really quick to adopt smgs in a couple years when those become available in numbers.

That being said the July Arc is not going to cover every day there will be a couple of time skips to account for travel, and redeployment as well as the aftermath of the attempted restoration before we move into August.

 

[ATP]

I read,that at least german Mauzer rifles made for calvary was short enough to use in buildings and trenches.
And it was version of normal,1898 rifle.
Maybe other rifles,like Enfield or Mosin,had shorter calvary versions,too.