With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Enochi]

Yep. This episode fucking sucks. Heroes act like dumbasses so the authorlord can look good and smart. Classic case of being unable to write actually smart characters so just makes other characters dumb so he looks smart by comparison.

Sigh come on Zoat we have been over this. You can and SHOULD do better.

 

[Darko]

I haven't decided.

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Hope we see what happened to her at the end of this episode then.

Really hope she was adopted by Peter.

If not that I can at least imagine that he took her back so his scientists could see what she was and if she can survive and one of them started considering her their daughter and adopted her.

 

[Darko]

Yep. This episode fucking sucks. Heroes act like dumbasses so the authorlord can look good and smart. Classic case of being unable to write actually smart characters so just makes other characters dumb so he looks smart by comparison.

Sigh come on Zoat we have been over this. You can and SHOULD do better.

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One of their members essentially stole something from him and they decided that it was okay that he did that and sent the stolen object to another planet, where it is unlikely he will ever get it back, all under the justification that he may do something bad because his alternate beat them.

They really have no actual justification for their actions.

Even the insanity thing the orange light can do doesn't really apply since they don't know about that fact because Paul didn't tell them when he met them, and the Guardians are unlikely to actually divulge any info on that subject.

What the League did is not justified in any way, that's why Zoat wrote them like this.

And if you think the way he showed the YJ League as being incompetent was a bad move, do remember that they were actually pretty incompetent in the source material.

All Zoat did was show us their incompetents through his character.

 

[Vaermina]

He's still upset that they stole something from him.

If they asked him for the ring he may have been willing to give it to them so they can dispose of it, but they stole it from him.

He also may not be able to use a green ring.

Also the Guardians are extremely unlikely to hand over some of their most advanced tech just to appease one human.

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This is the JLAU, not Young Justice or the Comics.

And in the JLAU power rings aren't particularly impressive bit's of technology.

 

[Darko]

This is the JLAU, not Young Justice or the Comics.

And in the JLAU power rings aren't particularly impressive bit's of technology.

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That...doesn't make much sense.

Zoat can just decide to make them impressive.

Yeah they were sometime beaten, but typically it was because the one they were fighting had something that was also impressive.

 

[Cuchulin]

And then congrats, Peter turns the Justice League into the Justice Lords, who rule the world with an iron fist.
Great plan.

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No, the Lords was a different version of the early League. The US gov going after the Founders would utterly destroy the greater League as various newer member quit it or quit being heroes entirely (at least for a while) because they are spooked, turn on the founders/Batman for being so a boneheaded A-hole, sign up with a government alternative to the League (like when Captain Atom sided with Cadmus over the League). There are just to many active Super Heroes here for the Founders to become the Justice Lords, also they'd lack access to Bruce Wayne's resources.
One more thing is they'd have Peter Wynn and his former super villain allies opposing them

 

[Darko]

quit it or quit being heroes entirely (at least for a while) because they are spooked, turn on the founders/Batman for being so a boneheaded A-hole, sign up with a government alternative to the League (like when Captain Atom sided with Cadmus over the League)

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Don't forget potentially making their own version of the League.

Green Arrow is rich, so he could have the resources necessary for them to start over.

 

[Cuchulin]

Don't forget potentially making their own version of the League.
Green Arrow is rich, so he could have the resources necessary for them to start over.

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That to.

 

[Nervaqus987]

, and when Superman finds the shielded kryptonite reactor he feels vindicated to trash the place,

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Luthor also made sure to whisper super villain like comments and asked if his escape route is secure to Mercy, implying that it's a bomb when well within Superman's earshot.

 

[Darko]

Luthor also made sure to whisper super villain like comments and asked if his escape route is secure to Mercy, implying that it's a bomb when well within Superman's earshot.

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Trusting Luthor with any power is like trusting a pedophile, with a deep compulsion to have sex with kids no matter what, to watch your kids.

It's just a bad, bad idea.

At least Sergeant Hatred was serious about taking his medication.

Luthor is unlikely to take the advice of anyone he sees as being his inferior.

Which in his mind is pretty much everyone.

 

[Vaermina]

They really have no actual justification for their actions.

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Actually they have a lot of justification.

Contrary to what Peter might think, there are only two sources of Power Rings in the JLAU, The Guardians and The Qwardians. Which means his ring is either stolen or he's secretly working with Sinestro. Both of which justify the League taking the ring to Oa to be examined.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I can picture it now. The Guardians being called to give testimony in the case.

I remember an episode of JL where John Stewart was accused of a crime (mass murder, I think). IIRC, it was a trap to lure some of the Guardians off Oa to kill the leaders of the Green Lantern Corps.

What I am saying is that maybe Ganthet (and a couple others) would go to Earth to testify in the case and make an argument about how dangourous the Orange Light is. Perhaps trying to say that it is a "Threat to the Survival of the Universe, that we could not allow to exist". Maybe even to show the rest of the Galaxy that they are "willing" to explain somethings (even if they keep it vague and obfuscate some details).

It might be an interesting "Law and Order" style court case where the defendants (Batman and the Justice League) broke the law, but argue that they were trying to save not only Earth but the whole of the Galaxy. (Yes, it stretches the truth. Even after Paragon Paul beat them silly, he quickly gave them back their abilities to show why they need more information before going in punching.)

There have been a few cases in the US where someone very clearly guilty, but the jury acquitted the person anyway. Like occasionally you hear about an abuse victim being acquitted after killing their abuser.

 

[Darko]

Actually they have a lot of justification.

Contrary to what Peter might think, there are only two sources of Power Rings in the JLAU, The Guardians and The Qwardians. Which means his ring is either stolen or he's secretly working with Sinestro. Both of which justify the League taking the ring to Oa to be examined.

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Do the courts actually know about those groups to care enough?

And what about Star Sapphire?

Last time I checked, her power ring equivalent wasn't made by either the Guardians or Qwardians.

Did the League also have any proof that the ring was stolen or given to him by a criminal?

They're justifications for this are very few and very weak.

 

[Vaermina]

That...doesn't make much sense.

Zoat can just decide to make them impressive.

Yeah they were sometime beaten, but typically it was because the one they were fighting had something that was also impressive.

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Zoat is playing in another persons playground.

While he could make them more impressive, that wouldn't be a very wise decision, it also wouldn't give him a pass from being massively criticized for doing so since unlike Young Justice the abilities and limits of Power Rings in the JLAU are well documented.

Do the courts actually know about those groups to care enough?

And what about Star Sapphire?

Last time I checked, her power ring equivalent wasn't made by either the Guardians or Qwardians.

Did the League also have any proof that the ring was stolen or given to him by a criminal?

They're justifications for this are very few and very weak.

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Star Sapphire doesn't have a Power Ring in the JLAU, she uses a mystical gem set into her mask.

 

[Darko]

I can picture it now. The Guardians being called to give testimony in the case.

I remember an episode of JL where John Stewart was accused of a crime (mass murder, I think). IIRC, it was a trap to lure some of the Guardians off Oa to kill the leaders of the Green Lantern Corps.

What I am saying is that maybe Ganthet (and a couple others) would go to Earth to testify in the case and make an argument about how dangourous the Orange Light is. Perhaps trying to say that it is a "Threat to the Survival of the Universe, that we could not allow to exist". Maybe even to show the rest of the Galaxy that they are "willing" to explain somethings (even if they keep it vague and obfuscate some details).

It might be an interesting "Law and Order" style court case where the defendants (Batman and the Justice League) broke the law, but argue that they were trying to save not only Earth but the whole of the Galaxy. (Yes, it stretches the truth. Even after Paragon Paul beat them silly, he quickly gave them back their abilities to show why they need more information before going in punching.)

There have been a few cases in the US where someone very clearly guilty, but the jury acquitted the person anyway. Like occasionally you hear about an abuse victim being acquitted after killing their abuser.

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Yeah, but the abuse victim would have justification for their actions and be able to get sympathy for their plight.

The Leagues only justification here is that they were beaten up by another version of him and that means they should be suspicious of him and try to take things from him.

If that's the case then they don't have any reason to oppose Cadmus, even though they were formed in part to prevent the League from going full on Lord.

Peter may also find allies in various governments who may be wary of the power the League has and want to put them in their place.

Peter can also get a lot of sympathy since to this point he's provided the world with cheap energy and helped rehabilitate many criminals.

 

[Pinklestia]

Oh, I'm aware of Justice League Action. I just don't think much of it.

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To be fair, with being restricted to short episodes they did the best they could.

Is not bad for a show made to just sell toys but compared to other shows is not great either..

What about Batman the Brave and the Bold cartoon?

 

[Darko]

Zoat is playing in another persons playground.

While he could make them more impressive, that wouldn't be a very wise decision, it also wouldn't give him a pass from being massively criticized for doing so since unlike Young Justice the abilities and limits of Power Rings in the JLAU are well documented.

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The ring may not have been made by Hinon 12, hell she may not even exist, but was more likely made by an alternate version of Hinon, or even someone else, and Peter just ended up in Earth 12 after it took him.

Other versions have ended up in universes where the chances of Maltusians existing were slim to none.

This means that the ring would not operate under the same rules as the rings made in Earth 12.

Hell even if the ring was made in Earth 12 that doesn't mean it would be as weak as the other rings.

Hinon, or whoever made it, could just decide to make it more advanced than the other rings, who may have been made less advanced for some reason.

Are the orange rings from other universes documented in the JLU wiki?

Star Sapphire doesn't have a Power Ring in the JLAU, she uses a mystical gem set into her mask.

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Yes and there's a chance that the Zamarons still made it.

And before you say 'Maltusians hate magic' remember that the whole banishing magic thing may not have happened in every single universe, and the Zamarons may like to use it in Earth 12.

I also did say it was a power ring equivalent and nit a power ring.

 

[Darko]

To be fair, with being restricted to short episodes they did the best they could.

Is not bad for a show made to just sell toys but compared to other shows is not great either..

What about Batman the Brave and the Bold cartoon?

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Fun, campy, silver agey universe.

Yes please.

Though sadly it may not come to be, as while it was longer than JL Action, it didn't really have a consistent plot, and was just more Batman and friend against the villain of the week.

 

[Mr Zoat]

What about Batman the Brave and the Bold cartoon?

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I'm not really big on the Silver Age.

Yep. This episode fucking sucks. Heroes act like dumbasses so the authorlord can look good and smart. Classic case of being unable to write actually smart characters so just makes other characters dumb so he looks smart by comparison.

Sigh come on Zoat we have been over this. You can and SHOULD do better.

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Batman took the ring because -having had a version of the SI with access to multiple parallel universes beat the other founders- he wanted to be completely sure that wasn't going to happen on his home parallel. The others didn't stop him sending it to Oa because they'd just been beaten badly and the villains had effectively gotten away with it. Now a few days later they're probably a bit calmer, but they don't have the ring to hand back. What cleverer option are you expecting them to use here?

The League hasn't done anything stupid. But they have done something that's creating a new problem for themselves. Of course, if the man with an army of supervillains and control of the west's power generation network had turned out to be a direct violent threat, they'd be ahead of the game.

 

[Ct613hulu]

Didn't they determine that the reason OL was so easily able to beat them is that he was on a superhero team with their alternates? I would say that this should mean that they have no standing to automatically assume that Peter is a supervillain whose privacy can be freely violated and property legally confiscated.

I would also say that the Justice League considering "His alternate was a supervillain in another dimension" to be a justification for treating someone as a criminal or even simply a suspect is incredibly hypocritical given what their own alternates have done.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Didn't they determine that the reason OL was so easily able to beat them is that he was on a superhero team with their alternates? I would say that this should mean that they have no standing to automatically assume that Peter is a supervillain whose privacy can be freely violated and property legally confiscated.

I would also say that the Justice League considering "His alternate was a supervillain in another dimension" to be a justification for treating someone as a criminal or even simply a suspect is incredibly hypocritical given what their own alternates have done.

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It's more 'his alter-ego was a supervillain and he's building an army of supervillains and has the same weapon'.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Well, also because I think he ambushed them. Right?

I thought Paul jumped them literally as they were arriving thanks to stumbling onto their arrival point at just the right time.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Yeah, but the abuse victim would have justification for their actions and be able to get sympathy for their plight.

The Leagues only justification here is that they were beaten up by another version of him and that means they should be suspicious of him and try to take things from him.

If that's the case then they don't have any reason to oppose Cadmus, even though they were formed in part to prevent the League from going full on Lord.

Peter may also find allies in various governments who may be wary of the power the League has and want to put them in their place.

Peter can also get a lot of sympathy since to this point he's provided the world with cheap energy and helped rehabilitate many criminals.

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Exactly, that is what makes the best episodes of "Law and Order". You can see both perspectives of the case and each side has a 'moral' argument, but Peter has a stronger Legal argument.

I also kinda want to see Paragon Paul go to Earth-12 to testify in the case. Just to give a good dressing down to the Guardians and the Justice League. Maybe have the Guardians bring an Honor Guard team who gets spanked like those rookies on Oa-16 when there was that "misunderstanding" about Paul being invited there.

Then end things with Paul making Peter a Lantern. That would cause quite a bit of Chaotic Good. All Hail Eris!

The look on the Guardians and Greenies faces would be priceless.

 

[Gilhelmi]

I just reread the chapters where Paragon Paul takes down Earth-12 Justice League. I had forgotten that Talon was sent to Earth-12 after the fight.

Where is Talon in all this? Is Batman going to get a new Robin? Is he getting treatment? (I assume that he is)

Is Peter going to get to meet Talon? Maybe help calm him down hearing how a Parallel version of himself did end up becoming a supervillain. (Blue Paul is a villain after all)

Don't misunderstand, they still need a good suing. But maybe add a bit of perspective.

 

[Doccer]

Okay." Flash raises his hands defensively. "I think we got off on the wrong foot. Ah. Yeah, the ring thing… Probably didn't make the best impression, but we just got our asses kicked by a parallel universe version-"

Batman, Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman are glaring at him.

"-of you, and we were worried you might be planning something."

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Pretty sure the Justice Lords thing already happened so this is very much pot calling kettle black. Little surprised he didn't take the shot.
Could also point out the only 'right' they had to fo this was in judging him guilty before innocence, oh wait that's not how that goes...guess the American way can get thrown out too. Truth Burglary and the Justice Lords way?

 

[transhumansage]

Fantasy previously showed up the Equestrian Guise episode for the first time.

Peter showed up in the Gammadion episode and in the Low Politics episodes.

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thank you

 

[Darko]

I don't remember saying that. I strongly dislike the Spectre as a character, and would only write him in a setting he was canonically part of. And even then, only if there was no way to avoid it.

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There is this character called Raguel in the 2018 issues of the Lucifer comics that basically serves the same functions as the Spectre, that being God's wrath and vengeance.

He's powerful, but not as bullshit powerful as the Spectre, so if that's your hang up with the Spectre, Raguel may be a better alternative.

It's more 'his alter-ego was a supervillain and he's building an army of supervillains and has the same weapon'.

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I think he told them that he worked with the League in his universe.

Though I guess they either didn't believe him, or thought the versions on his universe were also criminals

Exactly, that is what makes the best episodes of "Law and Order". You can see both perspectives of the case and each side has a 'moral' argument, but Peter has a stronger Legal argument.

I also kinda want to see Paragon Paul go to Earth-12 to testify in the case. Just to give a good dressing down to the Guardians and the Justice League. Maybe have the Guardians bring an Honor Guard team who gets spanked like those rookies on Oa-16 when there was that "misunderstanding" about Paul being invited there.

Then end things with Paul making Peter a Lantern. That would cause quite a bit of Chaotic Good. All Hail Eris!

The look on the Guardians and Greenies faces would be priceless.

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The Guardians may only give a bit more shit if paragon wanted to talk to them, instead of some mortal, but they still may not care, since they still don't care what he has to say, and Paul may not go to war with them for just one guy.

If Paul fights a Honor Guard then he might receive a difficult fight.

The Lanterns he beat on Oa were rookies, and a lot of his fights with other Lanterns were spars rather than actual fights.

He may bear them, but it may not be easy.

Peter may also not want an orange ring if he fears going insane.

 

[⸺⸺⸺]

del

 

[Gilhelmi]

The lasso of truth will quickly expose such an outrageous lie. That's like trying to ban breathing.

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Is it a lie? The Orange Light has historically been extremely dangerous. If these Guardians fully believed, and had data to back it up, that the Orange Light was a threat to the Universe, the Lasso of Truth might say that they were telling the truth. Paul got it to work, with a lot of luck. Gravyen started focusing more on his New God abilities and the Yellow Ring.

Remember, the Demon OL ended up doing the unspeakable to the heroes of his Earth. There, but for the grace of God go I.

Depends on the version they are using, I do not recall Earth-12 being able to get the someone to tell the truth when they did not know they were lying.

 

[SotF]

You know, the amusing thing would be if Peter recorded the conversation...that would make things a whole lot harder on the League to deal with.

On top of that, there are a lot of examples of the Guardians and the GLC deferring to local law, so they might end up with other trouble like John ending up in jail over it...they really wouldn't want their lanterns listed as a criminal organization. On top of that, the JLU does travel offworld, and that starts their reputation going down the drain. How many people are going to have the view that the only reason the rings are as powerful as they are is due to the Guardians stealing any tech they can and incorporating it while trying to hide the evidence?

Hell, Sinistro's actions also feed into it easily enough, they didn't care what he was doing until he got caught...who knows how long the Guardians knew that he'd subjugated his own world and how many other members of the GLC did the exact same thing.

A LOT of their enemies get a propaganda coup and many friendly and allied worlds would be more nervous about them and make their jobs more difficult.