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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Her Knock is three, not four, and no. That was Velvet's personal Realization. Selene's Knock realization is apparently entering the dreams of other ponies instead.
It is fantastic in a variety of ways.

The way we tested the waters with Cadence is a great example of this.

She could simply go to coppers dream. No roll needed to find her.

Our brother, windy flakes.

And I like that "she cannot impersonate anyone else." Means she can still freely shift between Selene and Luna. Selene also being herself of course.

[X] [BIEDDE] Ask for an Influence of Edge.
 
Have ... not really been successful in keeping up with the thread, but it's a work in progress. I'll get there eventually, I hope.
[X] [BIEDDE] Ask for an Influence of Edge.
To the best of my knowledge, that pushes us to Edge 4?

It pushes us to "can act on getting a Sacrament at our leisure, everything else is in readiness". Good to have handled, because you just never know if there might be some other terribly important thing we'd need him to do whenever we felt ready to take on his Sacrament. Furthermore I'd really love to put in the effort to (potentially) hit every single possible breakpoint in the conversation we're scheduled to have with Comet, since maxxing those tends to have particularly excellent results when we manage it.
 
To be honest I'm also very curious to see the actual process of Biedde giving us the Influence. Baldomare made us a tea that—at least for a bit—caused some mass split of timelines for Secret Histories. Axe bit Velvet and basically just injected her with magic Knock venom. And the Master… I can't really remember how exactly it looked except that there was some hubbub about people thinking he had shoved some Moth spirit into Velvet's head to puppet her before they realized it was literally just an Influence Overload.

Hmm. There's a common element of the Name basically making something that gets put into Velvet's body by some means or another. Now I'm imagining, like, one of those old school blood oaths, you know? Where two people would cut their palms and and then clasp the cut hands to mix their blood? Since Biedde's Sacrament implies that his blood is a good of Edge power. Which is incredibly unhygenic of course, but having a Knock Name's venom inside you probably isn't super healthy under most circumstances either and that was fine…
 
Look, I'm pretty sure the Master was lying about the details of the victories(Shocking, I know), sure the results are the same but the Master made it seem that Glory was in reach when it was locked so it is a safe bet to think she was misleading everyone on purpose and the Hows of the Endings are more complicated than that.

So the Moon may have a different method of restoring the Mansus or the Hours that come back are the Stone ones.
It might not even have been a lie. Maybe he was just wrong and didn't know.

glory is always an obvious answer... But the Master CAN'T leave the Woods, so how would he know the Tricuspid is blocked unless someone told them?

Interacting with Harmony directly is an option, but Moth means he'd go for "hide the light". How does he know we can't just stoke it fuethery

It pushes us to "can act on getting a Sacrament at our leisure, everything else is in readiness". Good to have handled, because you just never know if there might be some other terribly important thing we'd need him to do whenever we felt ready to take on his Sacrament. Furthermore I'd really love to put in the effort to (potentially) hit every single possible breakpoint in the conversation we're scheduled to have with Comet, since maxxing those tends to have particularly excellent results when we manage it.
To be fair, we NEED Edge 4 to have a chance at his sacrament, so if we don't do it now we WILL do it later.

and if we do it now, we WILL do it AGAIN later.

We still get to use Edge influence with Comet AND with the church this turn though.

@OurLadyOfWires you didn't answer this, can we ask Biedde to train us to get combat traits and/or health bonuses (after removing the Scar), instead of training us for edge scraps?
 
@OurLadyOfWires you didn't answer this, can we ask Biedde to train us to get combat traits and/or health bonuses (after removing the Scar), instead of training us for edge scraps?

What's the difference?

No seriously, what is in fact the difference when it comes to martial training from an Edge Name? With Level 4 in Edge we are already one of the most dangerous things in the country save a bare handful of contemporaries, with the other Lores backing us up, such as Forge probably giving us a bonus to break armor if it comes up, we are very difficult to kill except with extreme investment. And now we have a permanent bodyguard, our personal safety is very much not in doubt methinks.
 
What's the difference?

No seriously, what is in fact the difference when it comes to martial training from an Edge Name? With Level 4 in Edge we are already one of the most dangerous things in the country save a bare handful of contemporaries, with the other Lores backing us up, such as Forge probably giving us a bonus to break armor if it comes up, we are very difficult to kill except with extreme investment. And now we have a permanent bodyguard, our personal safety is very much not in doubt methinks.
Probably to better our chances against Biedde in a duel, since our Edge is capped and can't improve our stabbery any further at this time.
 
It might not even have been a lie. Maybe he was just wrong and didn't know.

glory is always an obvious answer... But the Master CAN'T leave the Woods, so how would he know the Tricuspid is blocked unless someone told them?

Interacting with Harmony directly is an option, but Moth means he'd go for "hide the light". How does he know we can't just stoke it fuethery
It could, but since the Master was The Will of the Woods and a Moth 7 Name it is more likely that he just lied.

The Master may not have been capable of leaving the Woods, but he was also born at the moment The Moth killed itself by flying into Glory and the Lock was made by the Forge of Days. He knew, he even gave us the Fruit with clues for that.
There is also the whole chaos, despair and opportunistic frenzy that happened when climbers tried to get to Glory and found it locked, no one could have missed that especially a Name.

I always found the Master's plan for Harmony weird and that was the first thing that made me suspicious of her, the fact that she even comsidered hiding Harmony instead of trying to make it protect the World by doing anything else was a big sign she was in it for herself.
 
What's the difference?

No seriously, what is in fact the difference when it comes to martial training from an Edge Name? With Level 4 in Edge we are already one of the most dangerous things in the country save a bare handful of contemporaries, with the other Lores backing us up, such as Forge probably giving us a bonus to break armor if it comes up, we are very difficult to kill except with extreme investment. And now we have a permanent bodyguard, our personal safety is very much not in doubt methinks.
They are trying to get a bonus to personal combat independent of Edge because the ponies that are Edge main like Biedde or Comet usually have higher martial than is, which gives them advantage given similar levels of Edge. For example, Shining Armor had a plus 25 to combat iirc (either that or +20), which means that an hipothetical Edge 1 Shining Armor has bigger personal combat bonus than an Edge 4 Velvet (sans rerolls).

It might not come up as often if we have Biedde as bodyguard but we also need to fight Biedde to get the sacrament and he might be unavailable if sent to one of the longest expeditions.

Actually, let's clear that up. @OurLadyOfWires how long does an expedition have to be for Biedde to be unable to guard us?

Also, can Biedde call an Edge influence on himself if he called one for us on the same turn?
 
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Traits are weird. We've pretty much never had an option to just train for self-improvement outside Lore progression, and even then it's usually better to just do stuff related to that Lore and get scraps as we go. The only time we ever gained a trait was when Velvet consistently rolled very high on a particular chain of actions that all used one stat and had large-scale effects.

I imagine part of it is just that the game is supposed to be Lore focused, so mechanically Bird wants to focus on that, but also narratively that the time and effort needed to really train a skill properly would be… kind of long? At least on the time scale the quest uses. Secret lore knowledge about metaphysical rules of reality bypasses that requirement because they're not really skills in the same sense, but that's the point. Lores are the cheat to make progression on a reasonable scale feasible.

Maybe if we spent several actions in short succession getting into high level combat and doing well Velvet might absorb a baseline understanding of combat beyond pure Edge lore, but that's not very likely to happen, honestly.
For example, Shining Armor had a plus 25 to combat iirc (either that or +20),
+25. It was marked as "Heroic".
 
I always found the Master's plan for Harmony weird and that was the first thing that made me suspicious of her, the fact that she even comsidered hiding Harmony instead of trying to make it protect the World by doing anything else was a big sign she was in it for herself.
You found it suspicious that the Moth Name, the entity that basically was made of the Lore based entirely around being sneaky, obfuscation, ignorance, and hiding, thought that hiding Harmony would be the best option?
 
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+25. It was marked as "Heroic".

which implies 15 martial +10 trait, considering that 20 Martial is the cap and 15 is an expert of their field.

Comet also had a high value OUTSIDE of Edge (I think 19?), which again implies a trait of +5.

MAYBE Biedde or Shining can't teach us quickly enough to make it worth it, but such a trait would add up to our edge, edge influence, martial and AotL, helping with the edge sacrament challenge. And we then keep the extra combat for the future too.
 
We also got the trait that discounts our lantern rituals?

From a book. Maybe there is a lore book for edge that can meaningfully improve our ability.

Personally I think our odds as are are good enough. If we have an influence.
 
Comet also had a high value OUTSIDE of Edge (I think 19?), which again implies a trait of +5.
Well, while we don't know exactly what his baseline martial stat was, it's actually not hard to figure out what traits and past Comet has if we assume it's equal to Velvet.

He had 18 martial, not 19, and one of those came from his Edge bonus. I understand why you would be confused though, because you seem to keep forgetting that an Attention also doubles that +1 to the raw stat. Bird does too, sometimes.
[Comet's first roll: 47 14 + 39 (Personal Combat) + 20 (Attention of the Laws) = 106]

[Shining's first roll: 23 + 25 (Heroic) = 48]
Anyways, equal base to Velvet is 8 martial.
[ ] a Workhorse: Lean or robust, tall or well built. You stand a full head over other ponies. (+2 Martial, +5 on tests that require physical strength, and personal combat).
We know he has this given he is always described as being very large in the narrative. Ten martial, plus five to combat.
[ ] Pegasus: Not being contained to the ground gives you a different view of the world. And while the etiquette of using doors instead of windows has been hammered into you from a young age, you at least will always have the option of choosing. (+1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, flight capable).
Eleven martial.
[ ] Farmers: Your upbringing was simple, full of hard work, but for some reason you always thought that gave you a deeper connection to the world around you. (+2 Magic, +1 Martial, -1 Learning)
Twelve martial.

Then you get the plus one from Edge for thirteen martial, plus five to combat, and then the actual Edge Application bonus. Alternatively he could have had a military family if, ironically, his baseline martial was less than Velvey's at seven.
We also got the trait that discounts our lantern rituals?
Fair, though that's another Lore thing and… not quite the same kind of trait.

Though yeah, maybe a Level 5+ Edge book would give us some sort of combat trait. Who knows, we might get something cool from our expeditions.
 
We also got the trait that discounts our lantern rituals?

From a book. Maybe there is a lore book for edge that can meaningfully improve our ability.

Personally I think our odds as are are good enough. If we have an influence.

I'm pretty sure higher level lore books carry minor traits in addition to lore scraps, it would be thematically appropriate for such valuable artifacts and would also present a meaningful counterbalance to the Baldomare friendship requirements as it would entail giving something up beyond just a bundle of lore scraps.
 
[X] [BIEDDE] Ask for an Influence of Edge.

It is that or spying on Copper and I don't want to miss on higher breakpoints with Comet.

And speaking about Copper, Bird confirmed that we can have several objectives when conducting assault on Rival, so how about tasking our Names with taking over Copper cult instead of immediately resorting to its destruction? Biedde can entrust them to Uncle when he is finished and having a cadre of cultists would be useful. Better than having Biedde kill them .


[] Press Copper into the service of Crown on behalf of Princess of the Night. Make her give you control of her bindings or kidnap her. Take over her cult. In case of failure destroy as much of her power base as possible.

@OurLadyOfWires is it acceptable number of objectives for Copper expedition? Are there objectives that would not be valid?
 
You found it suspicious that the Moth Name, the entity that basically was made of the Lore based entirely around being sneaky, obfuscation, ignorance, and hiding, thought that hiding Harmony would be the best option?
Considering the other options it gave, yes. The only thing that it thought of hiding was Harmony, not the world, if it said "We need to hide the world" I would have been "Yeah, that fits a Moth thing" but it focused on Harmony so that was suspicious.

That also sounds wrong because... what about the rest of the world? The lights of Harmony attract the Worms but there are no protections against them so they would wander in, they always did back then so wouldn't it make sense to have Harmony reactivate the wards or make their own? Hiding the lights sounded half-baked compared to the other options.
 
I'm pretty sure higher level lore books carry minor traits in addition to lore scraps, it would be thematically appropriate for such valuable artifacts and would also present a meaningful counterbalance to the Baldomare friendship requirements as it would entail giving something up beyond just a bundle of lore scraps.
Yep. Bird confirmed that 5+ give extra goodies.
Considering the other options it gave, yes. The only thing that it thought of hiding was Harmony, not the world, if it said "We need to hide the world" I would have been "Yeah, that fits a Moth thing" but it focused on Harmony so that was suspicious.

That also sounds wrong because... what about the rest of the world? The lights of Harmony attract the Worms but there are no protections against them so they would wander in, they always did back then so wouldn't it make sense to have Harmony reactivate the wards or make their own? Hiding the lights sounded half-baked compared to the other options.
…Uh, no. There's definitely something keeping the Worms out of the world, or it would have been overrun long ago. The only Worm that got in at all recently—relatively speaking—was the one that made Nightmare Moon. The problem is that if enough get attracted whatever those protections are they will probably be overwhelmed.

As for the world itself, well… the Wake is a reflection of the Mansus, and the Mansus is hidden by the Woods already. You don't need to hide the rest. Harmony getting too strong without extra hiding would presumably shine through those Woods though. That or it is, in fact, outside the world and thus outside the Woods protection, and is mostly a danger because the Worms would follow whatever connection it has back to the Wake. In which case teaching it to hide… probably involves the Woods growing around it in the same way they grow around the Mansus.

Or, well, did grow.,that's Ash's job now.
 
And speaking about Copper, Bird confirmed that we can have several objectives when conducting assault on Rival, so how about tasking our Names with taking over Copper cult instead of immediately resorting to its destruction? Biedde can entrust them to Uncle when he is finished and having a cadre of cultists would be useful. Better than having Biedde kill them .
Literally, why though? This would introduce so many complications and problems. And "give" them to Steppes who doesn't even know the Lores exist?

Also, if we're attacking the cult, we're not going to be ordering Biedde to kill the entire Manhattan cult anyway. We dgaf about the rank and file.

Considering the other options it gave, yes. The only thing that it thought of hiding was Harmony, not the world, if it said "We need to hide the world" I would have been "Yeah, that fits a Moth thing" but it focused on Harmony so that was suspicious.

That also sounds wrong because... what about the rest of the world? The lights of Harmony attract the Worms but there are no protections against them so they would wander in, they always did back then so wouldn't it make sense to have Harmony reactivate the wards or make their own? Hiding the lights sounded half-baked compared to the other options.
Weird shiny thing is attracting Worms due to being so shiny -> teach shiny thing to stop pointing its personal mega-flashlight into Nowhere. Seems like a reasonable conclusion for a Moth Name to come to?

Also, we know there are still active wards somewhere. Because the Worms would have already overrun the world if there weren't. Possibly being maintained by Harmony (intentionally or accidentally) but who tf knows.

As for the world itself, well… the Wake is a reflection of the Mansus, and the Mansus is hidden by the Woods already. You don't need to hide the rest. Harmony getting too strong without extra hiding would presumably shine through those Woods though. That or it is, in fact, outside the world and thus outside the Woods protection, and is mostly a danger because the Worms would follow whatever connection it has back to the Wake. In which case teaching it to hide… probably involves the Woods growing around it in the same way they grow around the Mansus.
The Dreamlands being on the "wrong" side of the dream-world seems to be at least part of the problem, tbh. Which is to say, Nowhere-facing instead of Glory-facing.
 
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Or, well, did grow.,that's Ash's job now.

Well wolves are territorial, and primordial avatars of hateful suffering are probably fairly resistant to Worm-rot. If Ash is supposed to represent/spur/inspire innovation through fear of what dwells in the dark, then he's going to have to live up to the concept.
 
Also, if we're attacking the cult, we're not going to be ordering Biedde to kill the entire Manhattan cult anyway. We dgaf about the rank and file.
To be entirely fair, some of those rank and file might try to figure out who the fuck just murked their upper ranks. Velvet's got good Moth, but she's not immune to RotT, and if someone gets a critical balance between information and misinformation they might do something really stupid. Not even for revenge, just proactive self defense.
 
…Uh, no. There's definitely something keeping the Worms out of the world, or it would have been overrun long ago. The only Worm that got in at all recently—relatively speaking—was the one that made Nightmare Moon. The problem is that if enough get attracted whatever those protections are they will probably be overwhelmed.
The old wards are gone, I don't think we got an official answer on how the world is still standing but the only thing we found that could keep the Worms out is Harmony so it is either that or something of the old Era that remained.
 
Literally, why though? This would introduce so many complications and problems. And "give" them to Steppes who doesn't even know the Lores exist?

Also, if we're attacking the cult, we're not going to be ordering Biedde to kill the entire Manhattan cult anyway. We dgaf about the rank and file.
If we task Biedde with destroying Copper's cult I fully expect him to kill everyone involved. And it is not like we can give them to authorities. And most of them are criminals and Steppes supposedly knows what to do with criminals. Low level cultist are not much more than talented ponies. After Biddie tells them to behave I expect them to be on their best behavior. For any high ranks I expect them to either die in the fighting, escape on their own or come to our attention where we will be able to decide on individual basis. Plus sending them on their own increases risk of them doing something unadvisable, or getting catch by police and spilling beans on Lores
 
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If we task Biedde with destroying Copper's cult I fully expect him to kill everyone involved. And it is not like we can give them to authorities. And most of them are criminals and Steppes supposedly knows what to do with criminals. Low level cultist are not much more than talented ponies. After Biddie tells them to behave I expect them to be on their best behavior. For any high ranks I expect them to either die in the fighting, escape on their own or come to our attention where we will be able to decide on individual basis. Plus sending them on their own increases risk of them doing something unadvisable, or getting catch by police and spilling beans on Lores
All of this is predicated on the assumption that we're going to be ordering Biedde to destroy the cult. Which, as far as I can tell, literally no one cares about. The only actual target we're planning on killing is Copper.
 
To be entirely fair, some of those rank and file might try to figure out who the fuck just murked their upper ranks. Velvet's got good Moth, but she's not immune to RotT, and if someone gets a critical balance between information and misinformation they might do something really stupid. Not even for revenge, just proactive self defense.

Nah, we saw what being near Biedde is like, we saw what being the target of his attention from more than a city away is like. If the strike goes through the low-level goons will almost certainly do anything they can to avoid him ever coming back.

All of this is predicated on the assumption that we're going to be ordering Biedde to destroy the cult. Which, as far as I can tell, literally no one cares about. The only actual target we're planning on killing is Copper.

Well look at it this way, a non-trivial part of Ponyville was inducted into our old cult, and when things fell apart we did exactly nothing beyond a token effort to distance ourselves from it. Which, went...

I personally would argue in favor of putting Biedde in charge and trusting him to use his best judgement to get the job done right. Because unlike certain other Names we know I'm pretty certain we can trust his professionalism.
 
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All of this is predicated on the assumption that we're going to be ordering Biedde to destroy the cult. Which, as far as I can tell, literally no one cares about. The only actual target we're planning on killing is Copper.

And leave cult to Neighina? There is difinitely more objectives than just killing of Copper. Personally I don't think that leaving people with knowledge how to summon Windigo just running around Manehatten is good idea, but there are other considerations too.
 
Well look at it this way, a non-trivial part of Ponyville was inducted into our old cult, and when things fell apart we did exactly nothing beyond a token effort to distance ourselves from it. Which, went...
The ritual cadre, who we had literally done rituals in front of completely devoid of any disguise, thought we were a dude. And in the cult as a whole, we got mention of our "being part of the cult" down to regular rumor level. Which like. We were the only noble in town until Hills showed up. Making up wild rumors about the local noble seems pretty normal.
 
Nah, we saw what being near Biedde is like, we saw what being the target of his attention from more than a city away is like. If the strike goes through the low-level goons will almost certainly do anything they can to avoid him ever coming back.
Mm, fair. On the other hand, we're not the only potential target. If all the upper echelons disappear and—preferably—Neighnia isn't there to pick up the slack…

We'll, an occult civil war is the first thing that comes to mind as the lower levels fracture.
 
The ritual cadre, who we had literally done rituals in front of completely devoid of any disguise, thought we were a dude. And in the cult as a whole, we got mention of our "being part of the cult" down to regular rumor level. Which like. We were the only noble in town until Hills showed up. Making up wild rumors about the local noble seems pretty normal.

What I'm saying is that we let all of these Lore-aware ponies just fly away into the wind, or more specifically trot back to their homes in town without so much as a twitch of concern. Like that Locksmith fellow who was managing summoning rituals, him and his lot are still perfectly hale and hearty and presumably haven't forgotten a thing even if they've lost access to our formal library, collection of arcana, and body of scholars. Heck, they haven't lost access to the scholars, they all live in the same town.

In retrospect It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Ponyville now has a casual occult underground culture by now thanks to all those cultists we disbanded back into the population without much of an explanation.

Edit: Come to think of it, this is probably one of the things Ash is going to be aimed at, the base-level adepts scattered across Ponyville. Hmm, something to keep in mind, Mansus-related consequences may be closer than they appear if they strike in our back yard. Another reason to social Mayor Mare then, keeping track of the local population and getting an early warning if things start going "funny".
 
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The stab Neighnia on the way out? I'd be surprised if Biedde + Mareinette + DoA (maybe) wouldn't be able to knock her back into an "unsummoned" state one way or another.
…See, now I have this weird image of a situation where, like, the Names are all standing over Copper's corpse or something, and Neighnia bursts into the room. Everybody panics, DoA throws a key ring at Neighnia, and then they all scamper away from the crime scene without even waiting to see if it worked.

There is absolutely no reason at all it would happen that way, but somehow the idea of almost half a dozen Names basically acting like normal teens when someone does a crime and another walks in on them is funny to me.
 

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