Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

AuthorTransient · Monday at 9:16 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Overflow: Velvet – 35, Invader – 54]
[Velvet Covers suffers one wound (-50 to Invader's overflow)]

OurLadyOfWires said:
"No."

Well, theoretically, if you had been awake, using our Edge 3 artifact and been with your wife, the 'outnumbered' malus would have made that a 49 - not quite enough to reach that wound! Killing your enemies together is a fun bonding activity for the husband and wife.

I agree with Zxzx24, however, that that is the wrong question to ask.

angelsadvocate666 said:
Four Names and a broken but still breathing Mare in one room. It's presented so simply, but still feels like one of the most epic moments in the quest for some reason.

Technically, we don't have confirmation that Mareinette is a Name, so it's really Three Names and an absurdly powerful alukite with a broken but still breathing mare. I agree on everything else, this is a very epic moment. This will likely be one of the highlights of this quest.

Shaper47 said:
---[] Edge 3 artifact (Selene)
---[] SH 3 artifact

Selene is Edge 4 - why does she need an Edge 3 Artifact? For that matter, I would also prefer not to get our daughter's hooves dirty.

Also, Baldomare bonus triumphs the SH 3 artifact.

Shaper47 said:
-[] The Grave on the Hill
--[] Who is going? (WRITE IN which followers will go)
---[] Comet (as planner)
---[] Baldomare

I would actually still prefer to take DoA rather than Baldomare, because DoA's +50 applies to every obstacle (except social), whereas Baldomare's bonus only really works for puzzles, but this one is also just a preference.

Lastly, my objective is still to kill Copper. Taking her alive has the risk of her running away and 'convincing' the more ordinary ponies to help her. My stance is to just eliminate her as a threat, then destroy the evidence or Neighna. Everything else is, for lack of a better word, secondary.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 9:22 AM

@OurLadyOfWires i have the outline of a mad plan for turn 20 and 21, i know that's why i said mad, that to exist would require good luck and your generosity.

1. Can we stack influences?

2. If a book with the same Lore level as us can give us a scrap could Jade give us a Lantern scrap?

3. Can we use DoA for "The conversation"?

4. Would, hypothetically, this extreme situation of dancing with death give us 2 heart scraps?

Shaper47 · Monday at 9:41 AM

Greymere said:
Yeah but like. Pretty much everything that we can do this turn isn't going to be very useful anyway. At worst, Velvet has a nice chat to reintroduce our contacts to the narrative for future social-ing. At best, we get five contact updates between us and Mareinette if ours are successful.

True, I don't really like the narrative implication of doing social actions while mostly dead though.

It's probably better mechanically but it just rubs my roleplaying senses wrong.

AuthorTransient said:
Selene is Edge 4 - why does she need an Edge 3 Artifact? For that matter, I would also prefer not to get our daughter's hooves dirty.

Selene wants to come and the artifact is insurance. It allows Selene to autopass an escape roll if necessary.

Which like she probably won't need, but being the overprotective mum is Velvet's thing.

AuthorTransient said:
Also, Baldomare bonus triumphs the SH 3 artifact.

Good point.

AuthorTransient said:
Lastly, my objective is still to kill Copper. Taking her alive has the risk of her running away and 'convincing' the more ordinary ponies to help her. My stance is to just eliminate her as a threat, then destroy the evidence or Neighna. Everything else is, for lack of a better word, secondary.

Copper is a secondary threat compared to Neighna. We can't underestimate what a Name can do. Basically consider her the Master expect Winter instead of Moth if that helps.

With Mareinette removing her Grail and making Copper an ordinary pony the 'convincing' isn't really a threat. Besides without her Name, without any lore and with us just about to send the Bureau at her cult. Even on the very small off chance Copper manages to escape she's no longer a threat.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 10:01 AM

Shaper47 said:
Selene wants to come and the artifact is insurance.

Do we want her to kill and see the Names kill? What she would see Mareinette do...

And i don't really think that she is needed, and we should save the bits, but if her inclusión wins i won't complain too much.

Shaper47 said:
Even on the very small off chance Copper manages to escape she's no longer a threat.

Ha, yeah sure, because she can't recover or do something regrettable when she loses everything because of the pony that she hates most.

Let's be merciful and just kill her.

Shaper47 · Monday at 10:06 AM

Rafuki22 said:
Do we want her to kill and see the Names kill? What she would see Mareinette do...

She was the Black ops for the Kingdom. I heavily doubt she hasn't killed before and she has winter 3 this time.

Rafuki22 said:
Ha, yeah sure, because she can't recover or do something regrettable when she loses everything because of the pony that she hates most.

Let's be merciful and just kill her.

We need the Name.

Can't just kill her before she hands over the bindings.

Sintonir · Monday at 10:20 AM

Shaper47 said:
We need the Name.

Can't just kill her before she hands over the bindings.

Do we really?
If she gets unsummoned we likely can summon her again if only anypony who works with us and knows enough about Lores meets her, even in the Wake.
If she doesn't, she is now unbound, and we can negotiate with her. Not from a position of power, as we would be if she was bound, but still likely to get at least neutrality and a Sacrament option.
Best case scenario is if she is still painting, then our team just brings her back.
Worst case scenario if she remains bound to some last orders from Copper, including killing Velvet, but in that case it's easier to just kill her too. I don't think we would lose much from it.

Shaper47 · Monday at 10:33 AM

Sintonir said:
If she doesn't, she is now unbound, and we can negotiate with her. Not from a position of power, as we would be if she was bound, but still likely to get at least neutrality and a Sacrament option.

Your really underestimating her.

It's like if Mareinette was just walking around unbound. That's the kind of power we're talking about here.

Sintonir said:
Worst case scenario if she remains bound to some last orders from Copper, including killing Velvet, but in that case it's easier to just kill her too. I don't think we would lose much from it.

Do you think we could kill Mareinette? And this is without having her bound beforehand.

We killed the Master because the Wolf-Divided helped out in a plot era's in the making involving us betraying them in their one moment of weakness. We don't want to call on the Wolf again to deal with a painting.

Beings of that much power. They don't die anywhere near as easily as your making it out.

The Names generally spend their time sandbagging. Trying to kill a Name for reals is what gets them to stop sandbagging.

Venerable Ro · Monday at 10:50 AM

Neighna is the Winter Name, what's more she's a Name of The Elegiast, who records and does not forget. By definition she's not going to have a emotional reaction, if we can avoid offending her she's likely to be extremely rational.

Honestly she's probably just about the safest Name or even Mansus creature in general in terms of unfettered access to the Wake.

Pittauro · Monday at 10:56 AM

LieutenantSpirit said:
-Baldomare is part of the assault team for support (non-combatant), and Comet takes the lead to preserve Biedde's action for searching later.

side note... nobody has pointed out yet that THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME COMET REALIZES VELVET HAS 4 NAMES IN HER SERVICE.

He knew about Baldomare and Axe, I think, but he shouldn't know about Mareinette and Biedde.

...and if he sees we have Biedde in our service, that's basically an admission of "I could have had you killed if I wanted to, with no risk to myself, and yet I decided to compromise in good faith.

This will also explain to him where the "knife/influence" came from.

Talon Tiger Dino said:
Well, we could leave one healing die up to chance. After all, Lore Levels stack for Expeditions and Selene's slapping an extra 3 onto Moth, Winter, Knock, and Edge rolls, while also being a handy combatant if combat is needed.

As for Steppes, I'm tempted to send a letter telling him to GTFO of Manhatten, because I feel like Velvet would rather clear her beloved uncle from the blast radius.

we kinda can't.

Or, at least, it's a LARGER risk than what we took this turn on red church. Because next turn we plan to use forge ritual to remove the scar, and if we are at 1 health AND fail that ritual then we're back to Dancing with Death.

admittedly the risk is really low. We'd have to both fail to heal (DC 70, +30 with heartifact) AND fail the forge ritual (Forge DC 100, we'd roll +53+reagent with reroll, so with a lvl 2 reagent it's already around 7% chance of failure), but... well, that's comparable to how bad things had to go with the Chuch (had to be wounded in the church, had to be attacked by Copper, had to have someone go past Biedde AND Mareinette to reach Velvet, had to be wounded WHILE HAVING AN EDGE 4 INFLUENCE).

The risk is low, but I'm not sure we can afford it either. Not when the cost to avoid it entirely is so low, just one fewer follower on an expedition that's already stacked beyond belief.

As for Steppes... it's not the worst idea, honestly.

Limabot said:
As an alternative, could we possibly just invite Steppes over to Ponyville for the sake of keeping his grandnieces company and making them feel better in the wake of such a dire threat to their mother's life? It would give him a chance to be away from Manehattan when the Cult Assault goes down without being too suspicious.

a good way to remove him from there, I suppose. He might also be able to help Silky lighten up a bit.

OurLadyOfWires said:
-I have updated your bit count on the voting post to point out that you have already promised funds for a scrying ritual (thank you for pointing that out).
-This is a reminder that you will certainly acquire three Wrong Keys this turn, so you can add them to your pool of artifacts you may take (but beware that, obviously, they may be lost, broken or used).
-Selene would very much like to participate in the assault on Copper, but not in an insistent or promise-bound way that she was to Guarding you this turn.

wait, do Wrong Keys work as artifacts? As in, give Knock 3 (+30) to knowledge checks WITHOUT being consumed in the roll?

because if so I'd likely give them a full 3 keys just to add another +90 to knock rolls.

OurLadyOfWires said:
-Selene would very much like to participate in the assault on Copper, but not in an insistent or promise-bound way that she was to Guarding you this turn.

mh... I'd like that very much, but then there's the problem of how to get the bits for that.

Either we only heal 1 wound automatically (save 30 bits that way), OR send only a pony to grave expedition (and it would be either Comet or Rarity, with horrible rolls, so they'll near certainly take more than 5 days and overspend anyway), OR we replace a Name to make room for her.

(EDIT: oh, or we could have Biedde be the planner, but that means he can't search for outsider with his +30, so lower chances on that front of one-turn it)

Biedde is needed for Combat.
Mareinette for social challenges.
Baldomare for FINDING things, both the location and the loot.

I suppose we could replace Axe?

her presence adds +10 compared to Mareinette (+50 on every non combat non social obstacle, vs Mareinette's +40 on every non-social obstacle), in terms of combat she's a bit better than Selene but not absurdly so (+45 Axe vs +35 Selene, but Selene has more health and can heal while Axe can't as she's a summon. This without her calling an influence though, or Selene going all out with her edge realization, which would cause a lot of collateral damage), and she basically means giving up Axe's knock bonuses (lvl 6, so also reroll) for instead lvl 3 winter/knock/edge/moth.

to simplify, Selene is a bit worse in combat when worrying about collateral damage, significantly worse in Knock, has us lose a +10 on most obstacles but comes with +15 winter and moth making up somewhat for Axe's loss.

So, Selene is worse, but it's not DRAMATICALLY worse.

OurLadyOfWires said:
Yeah, I'll extend her Moth 3 realization to that. Her shapeshifting isn't just from filly to alicorn, she can illusion herself into a grown unicorn to justify using magic.

Moth IS her main Lore (it was the one you picked for her), and this IS the sole purpose of her Moth realization, and she IS best pony. So I'll allow her to do this.

Selene participating in an expedition will not reveal her to the world.

oh, I thought Selene's disguise as a filly was the only one she had.

that's cool.

OurLadyOfWires said:
I'll bend over backwards to try and find a way for your actions to STILL take place inside your home, preferably with Velvet staying in her bed. So you can take any actions "In Ponyville" and expect it to only be inneficient or roll with a small malus.

But if you specifically write-in "Go to Canterlot in person, to do things" I will definitely make it a Very Bad Idea.

So "yes" to your answer, but only mechanically. I'll try to figure out a narrative way to make it fit your current state.

Because at the end of the month, you will MECHANICALLY have recovered health, but you can expect to be feeling under the weather all the way into the next turn narratively speaking.

mh... in that case I'm seriously considering using 2 actions on book searches. We'd need to get lucky, but we can benefit from all lvl 5 books, all lvl 4 except Edge and SH, Heart 3 books (more common in ponyville), and expedition books of all tiers (the best thing we could find other than heart 3 books really).

just to be sure: we can use the income we get at the beginning of turn 21 to buy those books, right? I think that's how it worked, but I want to be sure.

Shaper47 said:
Umm, @OurLadyOfWires Has Velvet given Selene summoning information for Ash-Ghouls?

You know for if Selene wants to summon some more support for the assault using a few cultists.

please no.

Keep in mind that ash ghouls are NOT subtle, they'd make a mess and be noticed! Also we can't maintain them, as they require sacrifices each turn.

...I suppose IF it was possible to summon them basically mid-combat AND to dismiss them right after... maybe? But I don't think it's quite that quick.

AuthorTransient said:
Selene is Edge 4 - why does she need an Edge 3 Artifact? For that matter, I would also prefer not to get our daughter's hooves dirty.

Also, Baldomare bonus triumphs the SH 3 artifact.

Selene is Edge 3.

Right now: Selene is General +20, Moth/Edge/Knock lvl 3 with realizations, Winter lvl 3 WITHOUT Realizations.

End of turn: she gets general +5 and winter realization.

End of Next turn: IF we use a Velvet action she gets ANOTHER +5 general bonus, +1 health, and All-4.

Shaper47 said:
Do you think we could kill Mareinette? And this is without having her bound beforehand.

it's a maybe, technically, depending on how much strength we bring against her.

Selene + Biedde + Axe (Ideally + Comet + Velvet with influences) have a chance. It's much more likely that she'd just manage to escape though.

Venerable Ro said:
Neighna is the Winter Name, what's more she's a Name of The Elegiast, who records and does not forget. By definition she's not going to have a emotional reaction, if we can avoid offending her she's likely to be extremely rational.

Honestly she's probably just about the safest Name or even Mansus creature in general in terms of unfettered access to the Wake.

eh, Baldomare seems to take it easy enough too, and Axe's "make things worse" level is a big question mark to me.

that said, Winter Longs had that "doomed to die at a very specific time, they can't die before that time". If I remember right they're super-immortal even compared to normal Longs (not sure about Names).

So it's possible that Neighnia just CAN'T die as a trait. Maybe she'd just move to a different portrait somewhere else in Equestria, or maybe the portrait just can't be harmed at all.

DelightedOne · Monday at 10:57 AM

Venerable Ro said:
Neighna is the Winter Name, what's more she's a Name of The Elegiast, who records and does not forget. By definition she's not going to have a emotional reaction, if we can avoid offending her she's likely to be extremely rational.

Honestly she's probably just about the safest Name or even Mansus creature in general in terms of unfettered access to the Wake.

Then we can at least invite her to talk with us, maybe offer to hire her someway?

I don't like the idea of any of the Names being unbound(yes, including Baldomare) so if Neighnia doesn't go back to being a painting after we kill Copper or just stops being active in the Wake because of it we need her on our side, maybe neutral by making a deal with her.

Sintonir · Monday at 11:03 AM

Shaper47 said:
It's like if Mareinette was just walking around unbound. That's the kind of power we're talking about here.

Power - yes. Temperament - no.
She is a Winter name, who was called "the gentlest" of her patron.
So not Mareinette and more Baldomare or at worst Biedde.

Pittauro said:
So it's possible that Neighnia just CAN'T die as a trait. Maybe she'd just move to a different portrait somewhere else in Equestria, or maybe the portrait just can't be harmed at all.

That's actually a high possibility.
Though 'killing' her in some manner is likely to undo her bindings, but also likely to offend her. Or not, Winter Name may actually not be offended by ending her trip to the Wake. I suspect if we somehow went against Biedde and managed to kill him he would laugh it off the next time we summoned him. Regardless of how we did it, unless it is something combined with another offense.

Nevermort · Monday at 11:09 AM

First of all I am greatly disappointed that Rarity is not optimal choice to lead Name squad.

It would not deter me though, so here is plan that focuses mostly on Grail to disorganize cult and remove Copper, and then on Grail and Heart to convince Neighina to go with us. Any hurdles use total sum of lore levels and Rarity+Marienette give +130 in Grail and in Heart when equipped with Heart artifact. And if we end up fighting Neighina Heart and Edge are the ways to go. Also Bieddie would have free action to search for outsider.

Plan The Most Fashionable Revenge
-[] [BUREAU] You will assault Copper BEFORE the Bureau picks her trail.
-[] Assault an opponent (Copper Secateur)
--[] Who is going? (Rarity, Baldomare, Bieddie, Marienette, DoA)
--[] What are they taking? (One Wrong keys. Heart 3 artifact, Edge 3 artifact)
--[] What is their objective?
---[] Spread chaos among Copper's cultists and make Copper disappear in it (For example have Mareinette pose as one of cultists and give contradictory orders, spread around rumors of imminent Bureau raid. Lure Copper into position to ambush her while she and her cult are most disbalanced )
---[] Find Neighina, try to learn what she wants and convince her to work with us.
---[] Destroy any evidence compromising Velvet and disable Windigo's Urns if we find any.
---[] Steal artifacts and bits. ( As long as it doesn't jeopardize any other objectives)
--[] Anything else? (Tell them you would like them to leave no traces and minimize innocent casualties)
-[] The Grave on the Hill
--[] Who is going? (Comet, Marienette)
--[] What are they taking? (SH 3 artifact, One Wrong Key)
-[] You are wounded! (You currently have 2 wounds. You must pick one of each option.)
--[] Take a few breaks, every now and then. (Costs 1 action. Rolls TWO dice. 0/-15)
--[] There is no holy grail for healing magic, no miraculous wound-closing spell. (Costs 60 bits. Two dice will auto-succeed)
-[] [STEPPES] There is no guarantee he will be able to help you, but you will write him about…
--[] How Silky has been shaken up by the attempt on your life, and how she might be comforted by her beloved uncle's presence. (Convince Steppes to stay out of Manehattan and out of the way of your assault and the Bureau for a month through a clever ruse.)
-[] [SOCIAL] You don't have it in you to teach anypony of the Lores. But you can make a social call to… (WRITE IN) (IF CHOSEN, will give you a -15 to your healing roll, free action)
--[] Mayor Mare
-[] [LEARN] It all fits together, somehow… or so you hope.
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)

As for Velvet actions, she had Memory of Light research among her learning actions previous turn ,and it is not something she needs to leave her home for (and object of said research is guarding her , so entirely within her reach) so hopefully QM allows it.

And since I had free time to write it, here is another plan, with main difference that Comet is the one who joins hit squad.

[] Plan New boss in the town
-[] [BUREAU] You will assault Copper BEFORE the Bureau picks her trail.
-[] Assault an opponent (Copper Secateur)
--[] Who is going? (Comet , Baldomare, Bieddie, DoA, Marienette)
--[] What are they taking? (two wrong keys)
--[] What is their objective?
---[] Locate and meet Copper on favorable grounds of your choosing with a goal of killing her. (Infiltrate her house in the middle of night or lure her to a place of your choosing.)
---[] Attempt to convince Copper to part with Neighina bindings (For example, make it look that Comet took his Names from Velvet while she was weakened and now came to do the same to Copper. If needed promise that no his name will kill her. But there is no Comet's Names present so it does not matter )
---[] Destroy any evidence, plant false leads ( For example have Mareinette march back into the cult disguised as Copper to take all she can, turn into changeling for a bit, cackle and reveal that Copper was not who she claimed to be, then run away into general direction of Tall Tale )
---[] Steal anything not bolted to floor. ( As long as it doesn't jeopardize any other objectives)
--[] Anything else? (Tell them you would like them to leave no traces and minimize innocent casualties)
-[] The Grave on the Hill
--[] Who is going? (Rarity, DoA)
--[] What are they taking? (Heart 3, Edge 3, SH 3 artifacts)
-[] You are wounded! (You currently have 2 wounds. You must pick one of each option.)
--[] Take a few breaks, every now and then. (Costs 1 action. Rolls TWO dice. 0/-15)
--[] There is no holy grail for healing magic, no miraculous wound-closing spell. (Costs 60 bits. Two dice will auto-succeed)
-[] [STEPPES] There is no guarantee he will be able to help you, but you will write him about…
--[] How Silky has been shaken up by the attempt on your life, and how she might be comforted by her beloved uncle's presence. (Convince Steppes to stay out of Manehattan and out of the way of your assault and the Bureau for a month through a clever ruse.)
-[] [SOCIAL] You don't have it in you to teach anypony of the Lores. But you can make a social call to… (WRITE IN) (IF CHOSEN, will give you a -15 to your healing roll, free action)
--[] Mayor Mare
-[] [LEARN] It all fits together, somehow… or so you hope.
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)

@OurLadyOfWires can you check when you have time and tell if anything needs fixing?

Also it seems that I would not be in reach by the time Moratorium ends, so people are free to post said plans themselves or add modification of their choice if they feel so.

Greymere · Monday at 11:17 AM

Pittauro said:
mh... in that case I'm seriously considering using 2 actions on book searches. We'd need to get lucky, but we can benefit from all lvl 5 books, all lvl 4 except Edge and SH, Heart 3 books (more common in ponyville), and expedition books of all tiers (the best thing we could find other than heart 3 books really).

Keep in mind that our book searches are capped right now because we don't have our SH3 realization, and our bonus will be minimal because again, we have no SH right now.

Pittauro said:
just to be sure: we can use the income we get at the beginning of turn 21 to buy those books, right? I think that's how it worked, but I want to be sure.

Nope. We'd have to buy them with the remaining bits from this turn; iirc we can only do that w/ artifacts, and that's only if we delay their purchase to the end of the turn.

Bakkasama · Monday at 11:18 AM

@OurLadyOfWires if somepony equips the SH artifact for an expedition, does Jade still gets to use it for RotT?

Pittauro said:
wait, do Wrong Keys work as artifacts? As in, give Knock 3 (+30) to knowledge checks WITHOUT being consumed in the roll?

because if so I'd likely give them a full 3 keys just to add another +90 to knock rolls

No, they don't. I think that they wanted to equip them for the "automatic wound to summons" property.

Pittauro said:
just to be sure: we can use the income we get at the beginning of turn 21 to buy those books, right? I think that's how it worked, but I want to be sure

Iirc, book purchases are resolved before the next turn's income, sonthat would be no.

Venerable Ro · Monday at 12:23 PM

Pittauro said:
The risk is low, but I'm not sure we can afford it either. Not when the cost to avoid it entirely is so low, just one fewer follower on an expedition that's already stacked beyond belief.

Yeah, we really ought to just take care of both wounds and be done with it, there's calculated risk and then there's daring the RNG to screw you.

Pittauro said:
(EDIT: oh, or we could have Biedde be the planner, but that means he can't search for outsider with his +30, so lower chances on that front of one-turn it)

Eh, We wound up with Jade scrying Copper and Baldomare presumably searching for the Outsider, there'll be a lot of progress made unless she gets distracted. I'd personally much prefer letting the last bit of the search overlap into next turn if it means maximizing what we're sending at Copper.

Pittauro said:
eh, Baldomare seems to take it easy enough too, and Axe's "make things worse" level is a big question mark to me.

that said, Winter Longs had that "doomed to die at a very specific time, they can't die before that time". If I remember right they're super-immortal even compared to normal Longs (not sure about Names).

DelightedOne said:
Then we can at least invite her to talk with us, maybe offer to hire her someway?

In the source material Miss Naenia is a very passive influence who does more to advise the MC on how to achieve their inspired goals than she does to actually prod them into a particular course of action. Indeed she seemed quite content to wait in the art gallery until something noteworthy happened. She's not safe mind you, she's quite dangerous as any Name must inevitably be, and certainly there are some things you simply shouldn't do around that much Winter.

"Should I really share my fears with her? I do not think that she is a kindly painting, not exactly. [...] The longer I look at Miss Naenia's smile, the more I am conscious of her teeth."

But she doesn't have any grand scheme or destructive inclination in mind. Her business and that of her patron's is the preservation of memory and commemoration of the lost.

Pittauro · Monday at 12:58 PM

Nevermort said:
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)

As for Velvet actions, she had Memory of Light research among her learning actions previous turn ,and it is not something she needs to leave her home for (and object of said research is guarding her , so entirely within her reach) so hopefully QM allows it.

That's an interesting idea.

the questions are two

1) can we still do it without Lantern? It feels like we shouldn't be able to.
2) If we complete step 1, can we then let Jade do step 2 or will we be forced to have Velvet do that too?

Greymere said:
Keep in mind that our book searches are capped right now because we don't have our SH3 realization, and our bonus will be minimal because again, we have no SH right now.

I know. lvl 4 and 5 books are EXTREMELY unlikely, lvl 1-2-3 books are useless EXCEPT for Heart and expeditions.

It's very much not idea, but it's an option, and Ponyville has Heart as one of the most likely lores. (though hard to say by how much)

Bakkasama said:
No, they don't. I think that they wanted to equip them for the "automatic wound to summons" property.

That feels a bit of a waste then.

Bakkasama said:
Iirc, book purchases are resolved before the next turn's income, sonthat would be no.

if so book searches are near pointless as well.

Venerable Ro said:
But she doesn't have any grand scheme or destructive inclination in mind. Her business and that of her patron's is the preservation of memory and commemoration of the lost.

on the other end we destroyed the woods, and are acting against her current summoner and will probably try our best to have her be forgotten.

so, who knows how Neighnia will take that.

Greymere · Monday at 1:00 PM

Pittauro said:
I know. lvl 4 and 5 books are EXTREMELY unlikely, lvl 1-2-3 books are useless EXCEPT for Heart and expeditions.

It's very much not idea, but it's an option, and Ponyville has Heart as one of the most likely lores. (though hard to say by how much)

If you really want to look for something this turn, it might be better having us look for easy expedition sites rather than books.

spiderhellian · Monday at 1:27 PM

Pittauro said:
has us lose a +10 on most obstacles but comes with +15 winter and moth making up somewhat for Axe's loss.

It's only +5 relative to having Axe, on those rolls…

Pittauro said:
that case I'm seriously considering using 2 actions on book searches. We'd need to get lucky, but we can benefit from all lvl 5 books, all lvl 4 except Edge and SH, Heart 3 books (more common in ponyville), and expedition books of all tiers (the best thing we could find other than heart 3 books really).

Don't forget we don't have the upgraded book search from SH 3. Really not sure how far this would go.

Nevermort said:
Attempt to convince Copper to part with Neighina bindings

Obviously this would be great. But how do we really see this going down? Are we letting her live if she does? If not, why would she ever say yes?

Greymere · Monday at 1:36 PM

spiderhellian said:
Obviously this would be great. But how do we really see this going down? Are we letting her live if she does? If not, why would she ever say yes?

There's this fun little thing I like to call "lying". Something Mareinette would be quite good at!

Nevermort · Monday at 1:44 PM

spiderhellian said:
Obviously this would be great. But how do we really see this going down? Are we letting her live if she does? If not, why would she ever say yes?

I think I stated a method there. But to elaborate basically you meet with Copper, preferably in place of your choosing. So you lure her to a certain place, or find her schedule and intercept her or use any other method to corner her. Then Comet shows with all his Names, and it is clear that some of them he took from Velvet, perhaps by force when she was weakened from Copper attack. So either Copper bends knee and agrees to do the same and gives him Neighina bindings or he will kill her. If needed he can promise that no his Name will hurt her. And it would not matter anything because they are not his Names to begin with. After which Mareinette can give Copper last lesson of Grail in her live and suck her dry, or use any other suitable method to deal with Copper. There is reason why plan is called New boss in the town.

But to be clear, I like plan with Rarity a bit more, since it just talking with Neighina after stacking Grail and Heart as much as possible. I just recognize that it loses in other Lores.

Greymere said:
There's this fun little thing I like to call "lying". Something Mareinette would be quite good at!

Or I guess much shorter explanation works too

Earth-Destroyer · Monday at 2:09 PM

Pittauro said:
I know. lvl 4 and 5 books are EXTREMELY unlikely, lvl 1-2-3 books are useless EXCEPT for Heart and expeditions.

It's very much not idea, but it's an option, and Ponyville has Heart as one of the most likely lores. (though hard to say by how much)

Level 1-2-3 books only become worthless when Velvet's library reaches that level. Studying 3 low level books for a single AP is much better then writing 1 manuscripts per AP. And even then we can just sell spare books for money once the library is leveled.

Steady Gaze · Monday at 2:23 PM

Venerable Ro said:
I'd say we could probably get away with talking to Mayor Mare, but anyone else I'd like to be firing on all cylinders to make the jump from friend to good friend.

Venerable Ro said:
Either way we definitely don't have Lore bonuses pushing us over persuasion or insight breakpoints.

Related to both of these thoughts, the issue is how we just seem to be unable to find the time for proactive social actions. How long have we had Applejack as a contact? And I recall the QM had to get us from acquaintance to friend using a reward for hosting the party, rather than a social action on our part. Unusually, this turn we can't do the other stuff that would normally bump social to the bottom of the priority list. Practically speaking, I think the choice is between doing it this turn or not doing it at all; I have little confidence we'd get to it in a timely manner when we have other shiny things to chase.

Sintonir said:
I dislike a bit Neighnia solution is violence here.

So, I was careful to say "neutralize" as in "make sure they aren't a threat anymore", and listed some options. I didn't prescribe the exact way to do it to our names, so they can choose the easiest option (e.g. negotiating to get her bindings) as it presents itself.

Sintonir said:
I think Mareinette's Grail should be enough to assess her intentions and make a decision if it is necessary to kill her.

I want to say names seem to be above the influence of grail for such purposes, as I don't remember any examples of using grail against a name like that.

Pittauro said:
THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME COMET REALIZES VELVET HAS 4 NAMES IN HER SERVICE.

I wonder why we'd want to send Comet? As the planner cause his action is easier to part with? Or I guess, who do you have in mind to send for Plan Pittauro?

Nevermort said:
---[] Spread chaos among Copper's cultists and make Copper disappear in it (For example have Mareinette pose as one of cultists and give contradictory orders, spread around rumors of imminent Bureau raid. Lure Copper into position to ambush her while she and her cult are most disbalanced )

I feel spreading chaos this way is incompatible with the goal of not leaving too much evidence. This is going to leave witnesses (or be a mass disappearance) and a crime scene (signs of a struggle), no? Are you planning for them to have to clean up the whole thing afterwards? Won't Copper disappearing be enough?

Alan975 · Monday at 2:28 PM

All in all, there's a few things I want to comment on.

First, our daughter wants to go on the murder expedition. Let her.

I think that we should attack after our investigators come up with something, because I do not want lack of information to be this expeditions downfall when were committing all the budget and violence.

We don't even have any numbers to delude ourselves with, all we have is that Baldomare should find them because Lantern.

The bureau will be suspicious no matter what we do.

With how nosy the detectives have been so far, I doubt even a masterfully written and performed suicide arranged by Marinette will get them of that red thread.

So why not send them with a bit of extra info?
Especially if we go with any plan that also has Selene's Moth added.

Also, do we need to use an action to heal before applying meds? Can't the auto success work on its own?

Greymere · Monday at 2:32 PM

Alan975 said:
Also, do we need to use an action to heal before applying meds? Can't the auto success work on its own?

The medicine converts healing dice to an autosuccess. If we don't take an AP to heal, we'll only have one die to be converted. So yes, we have to sacrifice the AP to heal fully, even with the autosuccesses.

Nevermort · Monday at 2:37 PM

Steady Gaze said:
I feel spreading chaos this way is incompatible with the goal of not leaving too much evidence. This is going to leave witnesses (or be a mass disappearance) and a crime scene (signs of a struggle), no? Are you planning for them to have to clean up the whole thing afterwards? Won't Copper disappearing be enough?

First of all I meant it as no evidence of Names or Velvet involvement. I could care less if random cultists are getting caught in the end, less problems for us. And by chaos I mean first of all paranoia and panic among cultists. Ideally we make them convinced of approaching police raid, force them to relocate their bases and mess with the orders so no one knows what really to do. And we disappear Copper among overall chaos adding to it.

Sveta08 · Monday at 2:45 PM

I am a bit busy, so can't do the full write up right now.

But, the Assault plan from Leave no Trace and the Velvet Actions from The Most Fashionable Revenge... That will be my aim.
I'll write the full thing up at lunch. But, y'all are all having the attack before the Bureau, so I'm good.

And good morning.

Solace2117 · Monday at 2:49 PM

Steady Gaze said:
---[] Good luck. Should the mission be a huge success, do let Velvet know if there are any particular rewards you seek.

Not really fond of this with Mareinette involved in the raid. Yes she's been helpful this turn, but we shouldn't trust her agenda. Feels like something that means well, but could bite us in the ass.

As to the raid, I think killing Copper and covering up loose ends that trace back to Velvet are the main priorities, then Neighnia. It's not worth the risk to get cute with Copper here, let the Names handle the details and go from there. After that loot the place, maybe plant some evidence if there's time, and more importantly leave as little actual evidence as possible.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 2:55 PM

I'll chim in my opinion of the priorites in the assault, assuming an only Names squad and that this ends up in a fight before the Bureu.

Mareinette: If this was Pokemon i would say that Mareinette priority should be the one to neutralize Neighnia, but if only Edge will apply in combat then her priority should be to kill Copper, after that, if a ruckus was caused convince the possible innocent witnesses that nothing happened, removing the bodies of Copper and her cultist by eating them is optional.

Biedde: Neutralize Neighnia, then help Axe in killing Copper cultists or Windigos.

Baldomare: Find where Copper is and point Mareinette at her, then find all information that would connect the cult to Velvet and remove it, also give her 1 wrong key just in case and maybe the Edge 3 artifact.

Daughter of Axes: Kill Copper cultist and maybe any Windigo that could be there, after the ruckus open any door that Baldomare needs opened.

Any comments?

Ans about the other plans...

Steady Gaze said:
-[] [BUREAU] You will assault Copper BEFORE the Bureau picks her trail.
-[] Assault an opponent (Copper Secateur)
--[] Who is going? (WRITE IN which followers will go)
---[] Baldomare
---[] Biedde (as planner)
---[] Daughter of Axes
---[] Mareinette
---[] Selene
--[] What are they taking? (WRITE IN what artifacts, if any, to take)
---[] One wrong key
--[] What is their objective? (WRITE IN what your followers must do, in order of PRIORITY)
---[] Make Copper disappear. (For example, have Mareinette "clean up" Copper on her bed as she sleeps in the middle of the night.)
---[] Find and neutralize anything that would compromise us. (Steal or destroy evidence that implicates us as part of the Master's cult, or an associate of Copper's, or having knowledge of the lores before their official rediscovery.)
---[] Neutralize Neighnia somehow. (Get her bindings, desummon her, steal the painting she's in, or confirm that she gets desummoned when Copper dies.)
---[] Steal anything valuable and easy to steal. (As long as it doesn't jeopardize any other objectives! For example, books that strike Baldomare's fancy, artifacts, bits or things that can be sold for bits.)
--[] Anything else? (WRITE IN any other orders or specifications you have)
---[] Leave as little trace as possible. (Leave no evidence of the assault, for example, by employing stealth, eating the bodies, grailing witnesses actively or passively into believing they saw nothing notable, etc.)
---[] Good luck. Should the mission be a huge success, do let Velvet know if there are any particular rewards you seek.

Shaper47 said:
-[] The Grave on the Hill
--[] Who is going? (WRITE IN which followers will go)
---[] Comet (as planner)
---[] Baldomare
--[] What are they taking? (WRITE IN what artifacts, if any, to take)
---[] Heart 3 artifact
---[] One wrong key

Nevermort said:
-[] You are wounded! (You currently have 2 wounds. You must pick one of each option.)
--[] Take a few breaks, every now and then. (Costs 1 action. Rolls TWO dice. 0/-15)
--[] There is no holy grail for healing magic, no miraculous wound-closing spell. (Costs 60 bits. Two dice will auto-succeed)
-[] [STEPPES] There is no guarantee he will be able to help you, but you will write him about…
--[] How Silky has been shaken up by the attempt on your life, and how she might be comforted by her beloved uncle's presence. (Convince Steppes to stay out of Manehattan and out of the way of your assault and the Bureau for a month through a clever ruse.)
-[] [SOCIAL] You don't have it in you to teach anypony of the Lores. But you can make a social call to… (WRITE IN) (IF CHOSEN, will give you a -15 to your healing roll, free action)
--[] Mayor Mare
-[] [LEARN] It all fits together, somehow… or so you hope.
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)
--[] "Unknown Ritual – A Memory of Light" Step one (Progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)

This combination (Minus Selene in the assault) i find acceptable, also what Solace said about the rewards.

Nevermort · Monday at 3:03 PM

Rafuki22 said:
This combination (Minus Selene in the assault) i find acceptable, also what Solace said about the rewards.

Replace Selene with Rarity then. It would be close enough to my plan for me to support it.

Rafuki22 · Monday at 3:07 PM

Nevermort said:
Replace Selene with Rarity then. It would be close enough to my plan for me to support it.

I know that when we recover our Grail Rarity will not question the probably horrifying things she could see if we tell her not to, but do we really need to send her?

I will not really object strongly, but i don't think that we need to send her, it would be too dangerous for Rarity.

Edit: Also, is there something stopping us from using the SH 3 Artifact to study better the memory of light? Unless that was discussed alredy.

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Dreamer

Getting sticky.

Versed in the lewd.

Getting sticky.

Versed in the lewd.

Getting sticky.

Versed in the lewd.

Mystagogue of ever-rippling stories

Versed in the lewd.

Not too sore, are you?

Getting sticky.

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

In hell we live, lament

Versed in the lewd.

Mystagogue of ever-rippling stories

Versed in the lewd.

In hell we live, lament

Araneae

In hell we live, lament

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

Versed in the lewd.

Sending good vibes and insights

Getting sticky.

In hell we live, lament

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

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Getting sticky.

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

Getting sticky.

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