Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Shaper47]

[] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore it properly. Check the stores, see the sights, and discover what wondrous things this world considers mundane.
[] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.
[] This place has a library. Go take a look.

Explore the end of this dream sounds good.

Who knows what secrets remain.

As for Twilight...

Making so Twilight Sparkle, the Element of Magic can never see her friends again (friendship will never be magic), never see her brother again and remove any future of her regaining her horn and magic by trapping her in the body of an ugly simian.

Well we've already spent the actions so let's not put them to waste.

Free confident is pretty nice and Twilight is no longer a problem anymore.

 

[steampvnc1880]

What who was speculating? I don't follow the chatter in between the chapters that closely. I kind of assumed that the twilight thread was going to be about helping sci-twi on this side by giving her a push in the right direction so she doesn't twist in the wind and get into trouble like in the movie. This just feels gross.

 

[spiderhellian]

She does not hunger for Glory. Velvet just sees herself in that. She will be hurt either way. But...
I do not believe it should be done.

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She doesn't hunger for Glory.

You don't think she does hunger for magic? Twilight Sparkle? In a world without it? Even before we showed her a glimpse?

That doesn't seem right.

 

[Steady Gaze]

It is accepting that what is broken is broken.

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So, the argument against boils down to the idea that, if we bring mirror Twilight back with us, we are admitting defeat, in that we will never fix our Twilight. And you know what? I think that's right — we have failed our Twilight completely, and I see the chance of that situation changing being negligible. What means do we have of restoring her peace besides doing nothing and hoping she gets better? Or Mareinette grail-bombing her into becoming our friend again? (Tangent: I would be willing to try that if Velvet actually is even willing to do that.) They say depression can be almost a rational reaction to circumstances, a means for the body to save energy until they change. But the core circumstances for Twilight's suffering will not change. As summarized by Velvet in the update, her talent and life's purpose (magic) and her relationships with the creatures closest to her (Spike, Shining Armor) have been taken from her. Now, certainly, maybe Twilight has been experimenting with Lantern without us and comes to us to save herself from fascination, or Cadance's visit has a much-delayed effect on her. But we should weigh that against what could be…

We could restore to someone what, by an accident of fate, has been denied to her. Her whole life's purpose, the study of magic! Someone who is willing to seize all her new life has to offer, and will not miss the unhappy life she leaves behind. Someone who is doing this willingly, even eagerly.

And thankfully, we aren't killing our Twilight. She will not be any more depressed shutting herself into a room here than shutting herself into the Golden Oak Library. As Maer noted, she may in fact find new purpose here exploring this new world.

Modern medicine and therapy could help her in ways that Equestria can't… overall, she'd have a better chance on the foggy side of the mirror.

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In fact, this is arguably even reversible, if circumstances truly change.

 

[Shaper47]

And I know that this is all INTENSE Copium, but I just…

This feels like the lesser of two tragedies? We abandon her after giving her such hope, or… or we save her truly. I just…

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Understatement, but we've already spent 2 actions so might as we take the free confident.

Call the actions a waste if you like, I won't disagree.

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I warned you ahead of time.

I was loud and clear about my thoughts.

But let me tell you this...

I AM SICK OF WASTED ACTIONS

COMMIT

DO OR DO NOT

NOT THIS HALF HEARTED FAILIRE THAT PRODUCES NOTHING BUT WASTE!

 

[dcoconeo]

NOT THIS HALF HEARTED FAILIRE THAT PRODUCES NOTHING BUT WASTE!

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Would've thought you would advocate for Doing Nothing, considering how we will need to explain the changes to Cadance, Celestia and Beyond Reproach if he gets there down the line even if there is no immediate Suspicion cost?

 

[BritBiscuit]

Wow to basically kidnap and pull a changeling replacement with Twilight was not an option I thought we would have jeez...
I feel like maybe an example of the unreliable narrator bit might be this

So, if you were to help this Twilight Sparkle. If you were to take her back with you. Would this be a mercy? Would you truly be saving her? Or would this be the first step of another disaster that would strip away from her everything she ever had?

You are not sure.

Perhaps there is no way to be sure.

But still, now you know there is a way.


...


You ask her that, and then you explain what that would mean.

You tell her that the journey might be dangerous.

You tell her that she might never come back to this place.

You tell her that there is every chance she would have to abandon everything she has here, in order to jump into a world that will be as novel as it will be alien.

But still, you tell her that if she does, and it will be her choice, then she will finally reach the voice that has been calling her for her whole life. She will finally discover everything she ever searched for, and you will be there to teach her oh so much more.

You do not tell her anything else, and you certainly don't tell her anything that might frighten you. You also do not reveal to her the… details, and logistics, of how you will accomplish it. Because she simply does not need to know.


...


Third, Velvet Covers is an unreliable narrator, and this world is already strange to begin with. I invite you all to consider if this update is brushing over certain topics or implications, or not.

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She tells Twilight that coming through the mirror is her choice but because of Velvet's bias and the trait we have given her of thinking that she knows best, she thinks that Twilight doesn't need to know the details of the journey, the kidnapping and replacement of the Other Twilight, by doing this she has removed EQS!Twilight's ability to make an informed choice.

Velvet is also seen as wanting to help this Twilight but at the expense of Original Twilight she seems to have given up on her, she says she has been avoiding her to keep her safe after a long pause, she then goes on to imply that she is keeping her safe from Velvet by avoiding her due to the suffering that has happened due to her, but by planning this option to bring New Twilight over she is seen to be planning on hurting her yet again... To kidnap Twilight would likely trigger traumatic memories of her original imprisonment and to then dump her in a dream world in a form not her own where even the reflections of her friends no longer are her friends, she would be finally and utterly alone, to do this would kill Twilight Sparkle I believe.
Velvet seems to me to have seen an opportunity to get a fresh start on a relationship with Twilight a do over to teach Twilight as she wanted to do so long ago before causing the Original to be afflicted with fascination. She seems to have latched onto this idea and in my reading of things is acting in a very unhealthy manner.

Also it is interesting to see how Velvet is acting towards Twilight in a way that seems reminisant of Coppers recruitment of Velvet, showing of some Lore tricks that can't be explained by the characters understanding of the world (science and magic respectively) and speaking of the world being small and wrong. Honestly I think if we do recruit New Twi that it would be the recruitment most reminiscent of the Cult Simulator source material, I could really envision a card with text such as...

Twilight Sparkle, a believer: '' She has always seen the flaws in this world, she sees more now'

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EDIT : I forgot I wanted to make a joke about the Vote options by saying I havent the foggiest idea on how to proceed to fit with the foggy mirror whoops.

 

[AuthorTransient]

I'm actually more surprised than I thought I would be - that the thread has actually been so optimistic and are now rearing back from the ending of their choices like Victor Frankenstein from his son. I speculated and said as such, questers - or did you only read what you wanted to read?

But maybe. Maybe. If we go to the dream's end, there might be something else that can shed some further light on the situation. That might make it easier for damage control.

 

[dcoconeo]

Current bits (money): 451

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Assuming this amount is accurate, we can go back now without adding extra complications to things, and then
1) Get a way to get the Blood via the Mansus,
2) Attempt to Scry for the Level 7 Book - we still have Lantern Reroll
to potentially shave off 1 turn on our quest for GLORY?

 

[Sveta08]

I'm actually more surprised than I thought I would be - that the thread has actually been so optimistic and are now rearing back from the ending of their choices like Victor Frankenstein from his son. I speculated and said as such, questers - or did you only read what you wanted to read?

But maybe. Maybe. If we go to the dream's end, there might be something else that can shed some further light on the situation. That might make it easier for damage control.

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I can only speak for myself.

I read that there was potential hope. I wanted to know the cost. And now I do.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

If we can reach the edge of the dream and step into the dreamlands proper Luna might be able to open a to this realm.

 

[Flaregamer82253]

Let's try and find the core of EQG Twilight.

"My whole life, I always knew that…" she says, a thousand different words, from thousand different times she was lost in self-doubt, crossing her mind in an instant. That is, until she finally articulates the one that had always haunted the most. "I always knew I wasn't insane. I always knew there was something more out there. I always knew there was something more out there, that would explain why my life always felt like so much less."

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Insane is a pointed term here. She could have said "wrong" or "foolish," but Twilight said "insane." There's a loaded sense in this term and its meaning.

You watch as she steps out of a storage room door, at the very end of the class, looks at you, and immediately pushes her back against the now-closed door behind her.

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Twilight isn't doing her research at home. She's using a classroom that she's basically taken for herself on her own time. Furthermore, Twilight chose to hide at the first sense of discovery. She isn't comfortable with other people.

It's blatant that she hasn't received support for her endeavors from anyone that matters. Most likely, this includes family as well. I'd suspect that they are trying to push her towards endeavors that will "use her talents better."

"The last time I called you after class," you continue, "I asked you about your future. I asked you where you saw yourself, in five or ten years. I asked you what you would try to do once you were done with your education here."

You narrow your gaze, tilting your head slightly as you look into her eyes.

The young woman holds your gaze, with an expression you can only describe as resolute.

This is, you can tell, taking every last drop of her strength. Whether if it is because she is not comfortable with other people, or because she is not comfortable with you, you do not know.

Still, the things she saw, and the things she knows you can show her, are keeping her feet under her.

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This Twilight is paying attention to us because we're suppling her with something she hasn't had in her entire life. Validation.

And I think that's the critical fact that we need to hone in on to understand this situation. The beats are there if you know where to look.

For this Twilight, we aren't just playing the part of Velvet Covers.

Once again, we've been asked if we want to be Twilight's Celestia.

Ouroboros. The beginning and the end.

 

[Enna's Fractal Wings]

The choice is that there is no choice. We would become as ruin if we leave her. We've chosen to show her the veil, show that there are things beyond that veil. If we leave her to her own devices, we will be destroying a second twilight sparkle, without hope for redemption. As many have said in this thread already. We made the choice. We sank two updates into Twilight. It's time we commit

 

[spiderhellian]

I really think we should do both city centre options. We earned these with two actions, I think they're likely to be better than most others.

Shopping to see what wonders are treated as mundane seems like the kind of thing that could give us useful artefacts or other goodies to take back!

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I also don't appreciate that Velvet decided to make a promise

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Sure.

That was more me speaking of Velvet's character than anything else. So, that wording has been changed.

I really am focusing most of my attention on the "snek" part of the snekrament, to noone's surprise.



Anyways, good night everyone! I hope we all have a wonderful week ahead of us.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

I have a question for everyone - Is the main world Twilight really beyond hope? Is she really beyond saving? Velvet is an unreliable narrator and she's filled with guilt, and we took an entire wedding action that seemingly came up to nothing.

Velvet has not checked Twilight. She believes she failed Twilight. Yet, the pieces for something are there. Cadance is still there. Shining is no longer leashed. She still has friends she can potentially make around town, and Selene is now going to be helping with dreams.

Velvet thinks Twilight is beyond hope, and she is, but only for Velvet to do anything about that. To bring this reflection Twilight over is to completely sever all of that potential and cut the original's life short.

But wait!

What if we don't bring the mirror Twilight over?

In that situation, we're doing the exact same thing we did to the first. We showed the mirror Twilight a magic she didn't know. We made her a promise to help. And now, just like we did the first time, we're on the precipice to decide if we'll actually follow through or abandon her to her fascination.

I'll admit. I'm a bit heated. I'm annoyed we went through with the Twilight action twice and set up this horrible situation. We now have to choose to either abandon the original Twilight to a world that's not her own (filled with bullies, might I add), or we have to abandon the mirror Twilight to live out essentially the same fate as the original.

If we had the option, I would choose to simply talk. To talk to the original Twilight or even talk to the mirror Twilight so there's a true understanding of what this "swap" would mean, but instead... There's nothing.

This is an awful choice that mirrors one of our biggest mistakes. Genuinely, OurLadyOfWires, I salute your writing.

 

[dcoconeo]

Because now you know that, should you call her when you are ready to leave yourself, she will follow.

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New wording for reference: We are now no longer bound to call her if we don't think that is appropriate (which I don't, at least not in this manner)?

[] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides, and fulfill two promises you have made. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

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This one should be changed too?

 

[Cochimetl]

It was not 100% clear to me what the Twilight option would do. It's clear now.
So I'm firmly opposed to it now.

 

[Greymere]

Voting thoughts: I'm inclined to return home, without bringing Twilight with us, then use our two AP to scry a Level 7 book for Baldomare and study the Lantern artifact.

I will give more thoughts on the update and the Twilight situation later when it's not morning for me.

 

[spiderhellian]

Voting thoughts: I'm inclined to return home, without bringing Twilight with us, then use our two AP to scry a Level 7 book for Baldomare and study the Lantern artifact.

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Having put two actions into exploring the edges of the dream, it seems unwise to not take advantage of them (finish those paths, as it were) and reap whatever opportunities are there.

 

[Solace2117]

Beautiful and tragic on all counts. I feel for Axe and how this will affect her. This is also why I didn't want to rush into the Twilight path.

We have stuff we could go back and do, important things, but I just don't want to. Without the reroll for the Sacrament, the only thing that tempts me is the other fleeting opportunity, but I doubt we'll ever come back here, barring something unexpected. I think hitting all the DCs in the beginning let us do more. I want to fully explore as much as we can to see what we'll find. I want to do the two exploration options and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

As to the third. The library is tempting, but I kind of want to talk to someone else this turn. I don't think we'll get much from Rarity and Fluttershy at this point, Rarity especially isn't going to say much that pushes against Velvet's views. Applejack could be interesting for another perspective, as a mirror of the Element of Honesty she could have an interesting perspective that could provide insight or push Velvet out of her comfort zone.
Really I want to talk to the principals. Both to see what they're like and to get the viewpoint of other adults. Stormchaser could serve the same purpose, but that feels more personal. Cheerlie and the Rich family just aren't as relevant in the grand scheme of things and Velvet won't put as much stock in their opinions

 

[Venerable Ro]

I believe I understand the shape of matters, it is not that the world is a dream but rather our sending is, like a Didumos. Therefore our perception and presence is bent according to certain silver roads.

Ah, Twilight, forever a dreamer but never a Know. Maddening indeed, that certain certitude of something just on the other side of a curtain you cannot touch, like remembering a lucid dream and a split-second understanding of how to fly. Then it's gone like morning mist and you're left with a definite memory of flight but no recollection of the actual trick.

But surely it must be possible, you remember flying as clearly as yesterday's breakfast. If you could just recall that certain...

Well.

The story bends, as it does, choices made and deals offered. We are ever the fluttering Moth, and this is now a faerie tale.

After all, Velvet Covers really is a terrific pony, yes?

Now, on to the rest of it, it seems my paranoia was unfounded in this case, we shall serve only as the final messenger on behalf of another seeker. 'tis fitting in a sense, that we be for once a footnote in someone else's adventure, for we are only a passing dream.

Now, we have some free time. Time to investigate the Might-Have-Been Princesses.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Well, I wasn't expecting to crush this mission with but two pseudo-AP. And I wasn't expecting to be able to port over Twilight so easily. I thought we were going to need to use her lore-detector as some sort of artifact-hunting device to find the Frangiclave, not for it to be served up to us on a silver platter! That said:

Hell no, we are not taking a dopple-horse across the foggy mirror. Literally anyone who knows Twilight will have all of their Imposter Alarms ringing, and official state policy is to put such creatures to the cleansing flame. And it would probably strike deep into the heart of Cadance and Shining's trust in Velvet, and that would take AP to repair. Hopefully poking this dream hard enough will reveal another path we can punt this nerd onto.

 

[IronHydra]

Jeez I thrive off of your writing Bird, you really have a way with words to show why I love reading this so much, both shades of this story, Love and Obsession, Duty and Desire, doing bad things for good reasons and good things for selfish ones.

Thanks for the update, it was so very tasty.

We were correct about the theories, it's come to this: Return without Mirror!Twi and leave her, even after having her confirmed to be real obsession that proves she wasn't wrong, that the world that constrained her and left her alone was wrong, and there's another one out there that has what she yearns and lives for. This will break her or send her into the same sort of depression that Pony!Twi is in.

Or, we take her back, and we manage to save a life where we would have failed both, our Twilight is shattered, too broken to fix and glue the pieces together. She's one thought, one terrible decision away from her leftover pieces crumbling to dust.

We'll save "A" Twilight Sparkle, but I think we're past the point that we could truly do the same for ours, even if she got her horn back, her life will never be the same again. Better that we manage to help one of them instead of neither.

Plus the plot and narrative we'll get from this is sure to be something else.

Now, I don't want to leave yet either, I want to explore both city center options and the library primarily. Celestia may be a decent secondary option, but not sure if it'll be any help towards Daybreaker.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

...If we connect to mirror Rarity and Fluttershy, could we send mirror Twilight their way instead of abandoning her when we leave?

 

[Venerable Ro]

You know what this needs? A trip to the Mirror Pool.

Actually, what this really needs is a magic journel and some more R&D.

 

[Cochimetl]

I don't see why leaving Twilight behind will ruin her.
It's not like the Lores aren't a thing in EQG. Pasharka found the Franciglave here!
All we did was give her proof that she isn't crazy.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I read this for 9 hours, well, more than that.. But seeing how it just gets darker and darker, and I can't be bothered to find out what happened to Celestia, I think I'll move on. I hope Luna's doing well.

Hey what did happen to Celestia? Still Sunbreaker, alive, etc?

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She never turned into Daybreaker, just a really, unfathomably pissed Celestia. She's still kicking, though she talks to Daybreaker now who convinces her that burning Changeling prisoners into less than ash is a good method of stress relief.

I don't see why leaving Twilight behind will ruin her.
It's not like the Lores aren't a thing in EQG. Pasharka found the Franciglave here!
All we did was give her proof that she isn't crazy.

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The Lores do indeed exist here, which is a pretty good point.

 

[Greymere]

Having put two actions into exploring the edges of the dream, it seems unwise to not take advantage of them (finish those paths, as it were) and reap whatever opportunities are there.

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Do you think those opportunities will be worth more than the friendship and permanent presence of another Name and bringing a powerful scryer online who can find artifacts that will directly improve our ability to complete All In?

 

[Limabot]

[] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)

I want this for this world's Velvet. To continue to strengthen our connection to Love and its power, whatever that power may be. But also to help Velvet, so she need not suffer loneliness and drudgery like she has so far. She was described as such a sad figure…

[] Apparently, they are not alicorns here. But they are still the highest authority. (Approach the Principals)

I could accept this option. Not my favorite, but I could accept it.

[] Now that you can reach the city center, it is time to explore even beyond that. Map the roads, learn the rules, and seek the very end of this dream.

I have to wonder what this would lead to. It must be something incredible!

[] This place has a library. Go take a look.

I'm curious about what this would do. What books would we find, I wonder…?


Finally… Twilight. I hate this choice… but leaving this Twilight here would be truly, terribly cruel… I think we have to take her with us. Twilight in our realm is broken and heartbroken and… I honestly don't know how things would change with her being here, but she'd escape the Wolf. She'd have some great and terrible EVENT wrought upon her that might kickstart her into figuring out a solution.

Modern medicine and therapy could help her in ways that Equestria can't… overall, she'd have a better chance on the foggy side of the mirror. She could learn so much… and we could come back for her, once our new Twilight reached Knock 5. Once she too had the Silver Key, she'd be more prepared to cross over, and we'd be FAR more prepared to solve the issues… and we could check on her, and let Cadence check on her- if her Lore level reached high enough…

And Our confidante would learn magic, and grow, and become so much more than she ever could on that side…

And I know that this is all INTENSE Copium, but I just…

This feels like the lesser of two tragedies? We abandon her after giving her such hope, or… or we save her truly. I just…




I can't believe how beautifully tragic this is, or how painful this is. Especially given what I know I'll pick… some hope is better than none, even if I feel horrible in the process.

But every option with Twilight here is a tragedy. So what else can we even do?

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I highly doubt modern medicine will be able to help with whatever the Human equivalent of a broken horn is. The Forge's Redemption is the only thing that can fix otherwise unrecoverable injuries like that; no amount of plastic surgery or physical therapy would have be able to truly fix Velvet's leg.

On my own thoughts, I feel like deliberately screwing over an innocent pony we hurt by stranding her in what is functionally a cramped and mean parody of her home is a moral reach too far for me to be comfortable with. I think the best thing to do is to simply come back to the real world with the Fragniclave and Diary now and get the extra action point to further our preparations.