Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Nevermort · Wednesday at 5:37 PM

Solace2117 said:
People can try to justify it all they want, but Velvet is not bringing Sci-Twilight to help pony Twilight. In fact I'd argue choosing to banish the Twilight she helped break to get a new Twilight to play with may in fact be the most selfish thing she has done in this quest. Maybe being here will help her, though I seriously doubt it, but that's not why we have the choice.

I think the logic here is that if chances of Twilight getting meaningful help behind mirror (+parents, +Harmony influence, - lack of magic, - unfamiliar environment ) are roughly equal (read as both minimal) to the help she can get in Equestria (+ Selena, +Cadence , - Paranoia, - Evil) then she can be removed from equation, and it becomes only value of helping the other Twilight vs inconvenience and problems she would bring with her.

Alan975 · Wednesday at 5:42 PM

Arrkhon said:
That's bullshit and we all know it, the cult is headed by our dear daughter with support of our son, she will make sure that Twilight will get a grip sooner or later and there will be no risk of her dying in the process, I'm pretty sure there's even a chance of her eventually talking to us!

???
???? ?? ????!
???? ???? ?????????? !!!

It is the Wolf.

just.

No, how? Why would you think that?

What information about Soft's get together has given you that impression?

Someone with reason, tell me that I haven't missed something major

@DelightedOne ? @Talon Tiger Dino ? @Sveta08 ?

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 5:43 PM

Arrkhon said:
with support of our son

And that's a good thing because?

Arrkhon said:
she will make sure that Twilight will get a grip

You sure about that? Completely sure about that?

Arrkhon said:
and there will be no risk of her dying in the process

No risk at all? I find that the most egregious thing you said, sounds like you are being too optimistic while ignoring that we completely messed up every choice about Twilight, and in this choice we will also do so no matter which option wins.

Are the people voting to not swap Twilights even planning in still "waste time/actions on her"? Or just not doing it to give themselves pats on the back for not touching the lever?

Alan975 · Wednesday at 5:45 PM

Rafuki22 said:
Or just not doing it to give themselves pats on the back for not touching the lever?

That is what 70% of 'em sounds like
Talking about morals but only as a defence, never as a call to action

keykigdom · Wednesday at 5:49 PM

[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
[X] "Is there anything on your mind, Miss Jack?" (Approach Applejack)

To be honest I kind of just want to do something nice for the EG Velvet if I could I would chose stormchaser X3

Arrkhon · Wednesday at 5:52 PM

Rafuki22 said:
And that's a good thing because?

Yeah, he's not the smartest cookie in the shed but it's still another head to bounce approaches off of! Soft Sweeps does talk with him in her dreams and asks for advice if I remember correctly

You sure about that? Completely sure about that?

Yes, that's one of main goals of the cult, making sure the members can continue to function despite the things that happened to them

No risk at all? I find that the most egregious thing you said, sounds like you are being too optimistic while ignoring that we completely messed up every choice about Twilight, and in this choice we will also do so no matter which option wins.

The entire cult is based mainly on not offing yourself and isn't really engaing in any notably dangerous activities to our knowledge, it's actively safer than leaving her to her own devices

Alan975 · Wednesday at 5:53 PM

@OurLadyOfWires Would it perhaps be possible to have one leave option and vote on the swap later? Since a few people are still only submitting options for searching.

Would be a shame if that determines the result.

Flaregamer82253 · Wednesday at 5:54 PM

OurLadyOfWires said:
They have all gone through that. They all still go through that, every time they see her. And naturally, the idea… nay, the certainty that a pony you loved, or still love, is right there can make some ponies… act out in rather unsavory ways. So, they have all learned to resist those thoughts.

And that is the purpose of the second rule. To make sure everypony keeps a healthy distance from her, lest one of them does something they shouldn't and ruins the gathering for everypony else.

Most of them have learned to push those feelings away, and can even talk to her normally, on the rare occasions that she stops and speaks to one pony or another.

Some of them needed… encouragement. Like the pony who is currently using his shovel to dig a grave, who nowadays wear an eyepatch over one of his empty eye sockets because… well, because he needed help so he could see things better.

And a few ponies, like the one who is about to be buried, simply can't control themselves at all.

So, acts like this are necessary.

Because it is imperative that they do not scare her away.

After all, if she ever decided to stop coming to their gatherings… well, the inevitable would still happen, some day in the future. But they would not be a part of it.

And that, they all know, is an agony none of them are prepared to suffer.

Arrkhon said:
The entire cult is based mainly on not offing yourself and isn't really engaing in any notably dangerous activities to our knowledge, it's actively safer than leaving her to her own devices

So uh...

I rather like Soft's Wolf cult, but safer is a questionable term.

DelightedOne · Wednesday at 5:57 PM

Alan975 said:
Someone with reason, tell me that I haven't missed something major

Awww, you think I have reason.

No you didn't miss anything, that is just someone underestimating how bad the Wolf and anything that comes from him is.

Arrkhon said:
Yes, that's one of main goals of the cult, making sure the members can continue to function despite the things that happened to them

The entire cult is based mainly on not offing yourself and isn't really engaing in any notably dangerous activities to our knowledge, it's actively safer than leaving her to her own devices

Yeah, but they also murder the members they see as too far gone remember?

OurLadyOfWires said:
-and he brings it down on the tied-up stallion's head, smashing it into a bloody pulp.

Finally silencing the bleeding pony.

"Alright everypony, lets get rid of the body and head to the meeting. Whacky is already going to fetch the young Miss. Oh, and make sure to clean up any bloodstains before heading back, yes? We don't want another ketchup incident."

A few chuckles erupt here and there, as some of the ponies get to work.

And the light humor they are all sharing makes it very clear none of them regret doing this.

And they enjoy doing it.

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 5:58 PM

Arrkhon said:
The entire cult is based mainly on not offing yourself and isn't really engaing in any notably dangerous activities to our knowledge, it's actively safer than leaving her to her own devices

As Flamegamer quoted(Edit: And also Delighted), nothing good comes from the Wolf, it would take a lot more than that for Soft to turn things around, if she even wants or knows how, but that third Stain certainly reseted any progress she made.

Calico J · Wednesday at 6:07 PM

For all the issues involved in bringing Equestria-Twilight over, it would still be leaps and bounds better than leaving her where she is. I can't help but view leaving her in Equestria as being a nearly guaranteed failure. Like, what exactly is the plan for helping her in Equestria? How many of our limited resources will we devote to it? How much of our limited time? When the situation changes and we have to go running to put out the next fire, are we going to drop her instantly? Or are we willing to take a real hit to our plans in order to see through some kind of rehabilitation program?

It's fine to talk about how nice it would be to help our Twilight, but words are cheap.

Limabot · Wednesday at 6:12 PM

Rafuki22 said:
As Flamegamer quoted(Edit: And also Delighted), nothing good comes from the Wolf, it would take a lot more than that for Soft to turn things around, if she even wants or knows how, but that third Stain certainly reseted any progress she made.

Soft Sweeps is still more Pony than Wolf, so I do think she would want to genuinely help if she knew. However, the Wolf-stains seem to be deliberately keeping her in the dark in terms of what's happening to the Therapy Group, so that will be something to deal with as well.

Pittauro · Wednesday at 6:14 PM

Earth-Destroyer said:
Their a working mirror that needs nothing but the full moon to be open and with no requirement other then that. Which leads right into Pony Celestia's treasure vault.

Technically we don't know that the mirror in the vault is the same one as the "portal" mirror, though it admittedly seems likely.

Earth-Destroyer said:
And Harmony is working on it, did you forget that magical geodes are growing underground right now. In at most 1-2 years magic that works for humans will be a thing.

that's show canon, with the geodes SUPPOSEDLY a consequence of the element of magic kind of... unleashing magic in this world.

We have no idea if there's such a thing here. I remain unconvinced

Alan975 said:
That is what 70% of 'em sounds like
Talking about morals but only as a defence, never as a call to action

because we aren't allowed to have Velvet act directly in Twilight's case.

So all we can do about it is wait until something changes, and try to help indirectly (like we did by sending Cadance and are hoping Selene's soothing action might do).

Soft Sweeps... she'll PROBABLY make things worse if she acts, but then again her cult was born as a way of... turn their pain from something that stops them to something that has them move forward? The main problem is that with the wolf-meter going up it has become darker, but... it's still not beyond hope for this cult to turn out well, MAYBE.

I admittedly doubt it, and I think the cult is going to most likely be a problem... but they trust Soft Sweeps unconditionally, so there's a chance she might turn things around as long as we don't raise the wolf-meter further.

DelightedOne said:
Yeah, but they also murder the members they see as too far gone remember?

And they enjoy doing it.

at least they're ONLY killing the ones that seem beyond saving. And in defense of Soft Sweeps.

Small mercies, I know, but it kinda marks the cult as... not too far gone. Hopefully.

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 6:22 PM

Pittauro said:
So all we can do about it is wait until something changes, and try to help indirectly (like we did by sending Cadance and are hoping Selene's soothing action might do).

Look at the Extra "In which the xxxxxxxx(exchange?) is considered", saying that we and others can help Twilight is easy...the reality is cruel and indifferent to those hopes.

Flaregamer82253 said:
Probably the core of my beliefs on Pony Twilight is just that I don't believe things are ever going to improve because there is no one left who Twilight would let in.

Again, callous, but we can help Twilight better, if at all, when Velvet becomes someone GREAT.

...If we even can...

And at least this time we don't make the mistake of abandoning another Twilight when she needs the help like we did before.

HellFire666 · Wednesday at 6:23 PM

[X] This place has a library. Go take a look.
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
[X] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?

Solace2117 · Wednesday at 6:31 PM

Nevermort said:
I think the logic here is that if chances of Twilight getting meaningful help behind mirror (+parents, +Harmony influence, - lack of magic, - unfamiliar environment ) are roughly equal (read as both minimal) to the help she can get in Equestria (+ Selena, +Cadence , - Paranoia, - Evil) then she can be removed from equation, and it becomes only value of helping the other Twilight vs inconvenience and problems she would bring with her.

Oh, I understand how they're trying to justify it. In story Velvet wants a new Twilight and doesn't care what happens to the other when she throws her to the other side. People can try to moralize it all they want, but the action is inherently selfish. In fact I'd argue they're more selfish than our RAs. Those at least had the justification of actually helping someone or helping to get to Glory to stop the worms.

Limabot · Wednesday at 6:31 PM

Rafuki22 said:
Look at the Extra "In which the xxxxxxxx(exchange) is considered", saying that we and others can help Twilight is easy...the reality is cruel and indifferent to those hopes.

Again, callous, but we can help Twilight better when Velvet becomes someone GREAT.

That last part would probably be easier if we don't violate her request to be left alone by kidnapping her before banishing her into a pocket dimension without magic or any (feasible) way to get back.

Also, forcing her to swap dimensions with the Equestria Girls counterpart is seemingly necessary for the latter to be able to stay in Equestria, so we couldn't even get her back without screwing over that other Twilight too.

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 6:39 PM

Solace2117 said:
People can try to moralize it all they want, but the action is inherently selfish.

Not from me, but really, what can we do about Twilight that isn't blind hope? Unless we roll a nat 100 on whatever related roll that helps, several even, i don't see how we can help without being GREAT, and the NAMES right now wouldn't be of that much help for that mess.

We could have scried how to help Twilight but action economy and bit hell, right?

I really think that we shouldn't abandon human Twilight because let's be honest, we alredy have alredy practically abandoned Equestria Twilight.

Limabot said:
so we couldn't even get her back without screwing over that other Twilight too.

We will figure something out, it shouldn't be more difficult than helping Twilight heal.(which is almost impossible)

Greymere · Wednesday at 6:46 PM

Rafuki22 said:
We will figure something out, it shouldn't be more difficult than helping Twilight heal.

Considering that the local Knock Name, who knows much much more about this kind of stuff than we do, is the one that told us that the reflection and the real would need to swap places in order for it to happen in the first place. I feel like it would be more difficult actually. Nevermind that we'd be rescuing her from a situation that we put her in in the first place (and doesn't that sound familiar?).

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 6:52 PM

Greymere said:
I feel like it would be more difficult actually.

As an HOUR we could figure something, and that's just from KNOCK perspective, yes, it is kicking the can down the road, but again, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Solace2117 · Wednesday at 6:53 PM

Rafuki22 said:
Not from me, but really, what can we do about Twilight that isn't blind hope? Unless we roll a nat 100 on whatever related roll that helps, several even, i don't see how we can help without being GREAT, and the NAMES right now wouldn't be of that much help for that mess.

You may, Velvet doesn't. Now she can just toss her somewhere she doesn't have to be reminded of her on some vague hope it'll be better. I'm glad Velvet's here to make that decision for her.
Look if you all just want another Twilight, fine. Pretending this being done for pony Twilight's sake is fooling yourself. From a meta perspective, it "may" help, though I doubt it. From a story perspective, if Velvet thinks that she's deluded.

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 7:02 PM

Solace2117 said:
Look if you all just want another Twilight, fine.

I don't even care THAT much about her, so kindly don't put words in my mouth.

Solace2117 said:
Pretending this being done for pony Twilight's sake is fooling yourself.

I'm aware, but...

Solace2117 said:
if Velvet thinks that she's deluded.

...If i was close to Godhood i would think that i can kick this specific can down the road because Godhood can solve many problems, including this one.

Dumb and short sighted? Maybe, but unfortunately realistic.

Diamondfiend · Wednesday at 7:07 PM

[x] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
[x] This place has a library. Go take a look.
[x] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

Greymere · Wednesday at 7:08 PM

Rafuki22 said:
...If i was close to Godhood i would think that i can kick this specific can down the road because Godhood can solve many problems, including this one.

Dumb and short sighted? Maybe, but unfortunately realistic.

If that truly is the case, then Mirror Twilight can wait a handful more months to cross over without anyone getting banished to an alien world without warning.

Alan975 · Wednesday at 7:09 PM

Solace2117 said:
for pony Twilight

She is not the main concern here, human twilight is the priority.

Rafuki22 · Wednesday at 7:11 PM

Greymere said:
If that truly is the case, then Mirror Twilight can wait a handful more months to cross over without anyone getting banished to an alien world without warning.

As OurLadyOfWires said, i'm assuming that we will not be able to come back, that's why i called my choice callous, because if we do the exchange and we can't return, then the only known mostly guaranteed way to help Pony Twilight is with Hourhood.

Alan975 said:
She is not the main concern here, human twilight is the priority.

Harsh...

...but true, unfortunately.

Darkday · Wednesday at 7:14 PM

I do find it kinda funny that if we do leave without her then Velvet will have managed to ruin the life of another Twilight in record time. Comes in, shows her the magic she's been searching for exists, mentions she can take her though to a world of magic and then leaves without a trace.

Solace2117 · Wednesday at 7:18 PM

Rafuki22 said:
I don't even care THAT much about her, so kindly don't put words in my mouth.

That part was directed to the thread in general, not you in specific. Though I stand by my points.

Rafuki22 said:
...If i was close to Godhood i would think that i can kick this specific can down the road because Godhood can solve many problems, including this one.

Velvet doesn't know it'll make her an Hour. Realistically we're not sure either. I doubt that's what Velvet is thinking, and I doubt it would be that easy anyways.

Alan975 said:
She is not the main concern here, human twilight is the priority.

If so fine, but considering how many people are trying to justify it as good for pony Twilight, that rings hollow. I'll listen to that. I don't agree cause of Velvet's issues and I don't think it'll be worth the hassle, but if you are more worried about one then the other fine.

Cochimetl · Wednesday at 7:26 PM

Darkday said:
I do find it kinda funny that if we do leave without her then Velvet will have managed to ruin the life of another Twilight in record time. Comes in, shows her the magic she's been searching for exists, mentions she can take her though to a world of magic and then leaves without a trace.

Come on, EQG!Twilight's life is hardly ruined. Her knowing the Lores/Magic are real isn't that different from her just fervently believing it, like she did before Velvet showed up.

Greymere · Wednesday at 7:27 PM

Darkday said:
I do find it kinda funny that if we do leave without her then Velvet will have managed to ruin the life of another Twilight in record time. Comes in, shows her the magic she's been searching for exists, mentions she can take her though to a world of magic and then leaves without a trace.

People have been saying this and I just... don't see it. Would she be upset and/or disappointed? Probably. But saying it would ruin her life is just, like...

Oh no. She'll have to continue her research on her own, which she is demonstrably very capable at considering she built a functioning magic detector. With parents and a brother who love her. Having received certain confirmation that she isn't crazy. Truly, a most ruinous experience through which she will forever suffer in pain and agony.

It's really not comparable to what happened to Real Twilight, is what I'm saying, and it feels disingenuous and hyperbolic to say that it would be.

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

Know what you're doing yet?

Know what you're doing yet?

Know what you're doing yet?

confirmed key

Getting sticky.

Know what you're doing yet?

Was the choice life, or death?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Know what you're doing yet?

Know what you're doing yet?

Expedition Probe from SV

Versed in the lewd.

Know what you're doing yet?

Getting sticky.

Not too sore, are you?

Expedition Probe from SV

Know what you're doing yet?

In hell we live, lament

Know what you're doing yet?

Not too sore, are you?

Know what you're doing yet?

Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

In hell we live, lament

Know what you're doing yet?

Know what you're doing yet?

Getting out there.

Not too sore, are you?

Getting sticky.

In hell we live, lament

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