Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

I think to Sci-Twi, all of these would just be minor obstacles to overcome in her perspective. Between the chance to explore a part of life she's always been searching for and someone to guide her through it while believing in her, all of these would just be rocky steps on the road.

Well, that laser, single-focus is how I understand her. If we decide not to go through with it, then I hope she finds more opportunities, or even just that she adjusts well in her future. I just don't see it myself from the signs I've already seen.

I appreciate the discussion though, making me think about my stance further and further.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but Mirror Twilight doesn't exactly strike me as someone sociopathic enough for "you'd literally be stealing another person's life" to count as a minor consideration? And sure, maybe she'd be fine with the other stuff regarding Equestria. But she might also not be, and we're not giving her the ability to even to consider if those other factors would be too much. Which again, separate from all the moral and ethical issues surrounding yeeting Equestria Twilight into the mirror world, leads me to the point that there's a very big problem regarding Velvet's offer to Mirror Twilight and that is that she's not actually giving Mirror Twilight the information necessary to give informed consent to the switch.

Edit: Also! Reminder! Mirror Twilight is a teenager, and one that we are in a position of authority over in this world, at that.

 

[Venerable Ro]

I believe pony Twilight benefits greatly from a nearly clean slate at this point. It at least won't have as much baggage as she has here. If a certain bacon horse can make it, then t'll trust Twilight can too.

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If we were debating a reasoned proposal agreed to by all parties that might hold water. As it stands we are instead discussing Axe kicking her door in and stuffing her in a sack, if anything a freshly traumatizing reenactment of her last abduction. After all, Sunset was buoyed by a magnificent Temptation To Power that drove her every action, Twilight is leaden with Despair.

 

[Limabot]

As OurLady said there is an interpretation where Twilight is happy with being in Sci-Twi place, is that likely? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the dice.

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Then again, they did also say that Velvet wasn't thinking straight when Nevermort (if I remember correctly) pointed out that her arguments weren't quite making sense.

 

[Bakkasama]

I mean, yeah, this is probably really bad for pony Twilight. In the best case scenario, she will live in a dream like state half the time until something happens that shakes her out of it, since as far as Velvet knows, you are only conscious if you are at school or have something specific to do. So ideal state for Twilight is either to grow curious about how this place works without magic or become so pissed at us messing with her again that it shakes her out of depression.

The question is not if she will be worse off on the other side of the mirror but how much worse she will be and if the gain for human Twilight would be worth it. This is not about helping the pony, this is about helping the human at the cost of worsening the pony's situation. Is it worth it to change having two miserable Twilights for having a happy Twilight and an even more miserable Twilight?

Morally, I would say no because we are already presenting to Candance a way to fix Twilight's horn, so there is a chance for her situation to improve. Had we done it a few turns ago and Twilight stayed the same, then it would be less clear.

As a player and a reader though, pony Twilight is already out of the story so I don't care that much what happens to her. At least making the exchange gives the possibility of interesting results, so the question is more about whether I want to bother using our actions on human Twilight on the following turns.

If there were a quest sequel in which our confidants help Velvet ascend higher after she reaches Glory like un CS then sure but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Clueless777]

I still believe Cadence cares about Twilight and is actively trying to help her. After all, I find it hard to believe that the Alicorn of Love would stop trying to reach out to her husband's sister after one tense conversation, and we've seen no evidence that she stopped reaching out to Twilight after that conversation.

As such, I think that making this swap would make allying with Cadence a good deal harder. Definitely not impossible, and we could always leash her, but I think this would be a betrayal of trust that would damage our bond.

 

[Anjaxis]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I still believe Cadence cares about Twilight and is actively trying to help her. After all, I find it hard to believe that the Alicorn of Love would stop trying to reach out to her husband's sister after one tense conversation, and we've seen no evidence that she stopped reaching out to Twilight after that conversation.

As such, I think that making this swap would make allying with Cadence a good deal harder. Definitely not impossible, and we could always leash her, but I think this would be a betrayal of trust that would damage our bond.

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I counter with the fact that Cadence still has left Twilight alone, in a broken down building despite being a princess and more then able to arrange for her to be taken to Canterlot, or even to send Twilight to a place to recover and get help. Because Equestra does have stuff like that.

Also Cadence trust's Velvet over Celestia already, and her husband a minion to Velvet so we have immense influence over her.

 

[Limabot]

Also Cadence trust's Velvet over Celestia already, and her husband a minion to Velvet so we have immense influence over her.

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This is a minor point, but while Shining Armor is technically Velvet's employee right now, he is not her Minion in the mechanical sense (the Leash has been gone for a while, and he is at best a Good Friend).

 

[spiderhellian]

mean, yeah, this is probably really bad for pony Twilight. In the best case scenario, she will live in a dream like state half the time until something happens that shakes her out of it, since as far as Velvet knows, you are only conscious if you are at school or have something specific to do.

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We don't really know how it works for Mirror Twilight, doesn't seem like this/I wouldn't assume it's identical to Velvet.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

This is a minor point, but while Shining Armor is technically Velvet's employee right now, he is not her Minion in the mechanical sense (the Leash has been gone for a while, and he is at best a Good Friend).

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The leash only went away because it no longer did anything, AKA Shining had reached Minion status. Just because we don't be any mechanical benefits, does not change how the Leash works, or the narrative benfits AKA bringing Cadance on side.

 

[Solace2117]

Is it valid to say that you will be "kidnapping Twilight and throwing her in a mockery-world she knows nothing about"? Yes, that is a valid interpretation.

Is it valid to say you will take an extremely traumatized and damaged pony, and take her somewhere she will have living parents, a caring brother, a loving dog, and modern therapy? Yes, that is also a valid interpretation.

I am only offering the choices, and describing the actions that will be taken depending on which is picked. You guys are the ones who need to ascribe morals to them.

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The QM hasn't actually said one way or the other about how it could affect pony Twilight. If people want to believe this will help her, you are able to. It could possibly be true, though I doubt it. But it reeks of delusion and false justification on the part of Velvet. She is not a reliable narrator, especially about Twilight.

The thread can pick whatever reasons it wants. From a meta perspective they're perfectly valid.
Whether you think it'll be better for her or you're not worried about the morals, that's fine. From a story perspective though this looks like Velvet taking a broken Twilight and switching her out for another. From a story perspective I'd argue it's the morally unjustifiable thing Velvet has done since she doesn't have any idea what will result. Whether it works out okay doesn't change that.

 

[Alan975]

Equestria Twilight getting the last of her magic taken away, getting thrown into a body she isn't used to, and being told that everything she ever remembered is a lie is somehow good?

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I think so, yes.

And she's not exactly in the proper mental state to hold a nuanced conversation on this topic is she? Not in her right mind enough do decide to get better.

I'll reiterate, the priority here is to help Human-Twilight. The idea the it might stall/stop pony-Twilights descent into despair/wolfing and -more so now that theres Harmony- possibly far in the future maybe improve.
that's just a nice afterthought.

Send her off. She'll have parents, a "fake" brother and a crude substitute for spike.

No magic to remind her, no avenue to hurt herself.



Maybe she even gets checked into a mental institute, maybe she gets convinced that it was all some big psychotic break.

A bad dream, something to forget rather than agonize over.


Anyway, she'll hopefully be out of the picture and we'll have a new companion that is just oh so overjoyed to finally get her hands on that which she's yearned for.

Seems more like a gain for one, and a different flavor of misery for another rather than things getting worse.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

As such, I think that making this swap would make allying with Cadence a good deal harder. Definitely not impossible, and we could always leash her, but I think this would be a betrayal of trust that would damage our bond.

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You can't Leash Alicorns, actually.

 

[Limabot]

The leash only went away because it no longer did anything, AKA Shining had reached Minion status. Just because we don't be any mechanical benefits, does not change how the Leash works, or the narrative benfits AKA bringing Cadance on side.

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If Shining Armor was actually a Minion, it would have been mentioned somewhere on the character sheet, and he would be on the Friend sheet. He doesn't have either listed, and he isn't an Alicorn, so I would assume he isn't actually a Minion. Also, I thought the Leash came off because we wanted it back rather than it no longer working.

 

[DelightedOne]

The leash only went away because it no longer did anything, AKA Shining had reached Minion status. Just because we don't be any mechanical benefits, does not change how the Leash works, or the narrative benfits AKA bringing Cadance on side.

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Uh... That wasn't what happened at all. Shining Armor is NOT our Minion in any way, shape or form, he is our employee. The Leash was dropped because of enough time having passed that he just forgot to ask Twilight about what happened to her, because stopping him from discovering Vekvet's shady life was the reason he was Leashed in the first place.

 

[retrueno]

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[spiderhellian]

Anyone have a tally? Man am I curious how the vote is going!

 

[Daveeed]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

If Shining Armor was actually a Minion, it would have been mentioned somewhere on the character sheet, and he would be on the Friend sheet. He doesn't have either listed, and he isn't an Alicorn, so I would assume he isn't actually a Minion. Also, I thought the Leash came off because we wanted it back rather than it no longer working.

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Uh... That wasn't what happened at all. Shining Armor is NOT our Minion in any way, shape or form, he is our employee. The Leash was dropped because of enough time having passed that he just forgot to ask Twilight about what happened to her, because stopping him from discovering Vekvet's shady life was the reason he was Leashed in the first place.

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Jade is GM confirmed to be a full level minion. The sheet is just what Velvet thinks is the case even when she knows she is wrong. Velvet likes to pretend that Jade and Shining are just very close friends, even when she knows that they would kill themselves is Velvet told them to. Do not just the pony named Velvet she lies, to herself a lot.

The leash falling of on it own without a vote to remove, it has one and only one condition, that person that was leashed is now a minion without the leash. The leash fell off of Shining he is a minion that is objective fact.

 

[Witherbrine2671]

Anyone have a tally? Man am I curious how the vote is going!

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Current leading votes with a full tally below
[] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.) (22 votes)
[] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.) (17 votes)

Spoiler: Vote Tally

Vote Tally : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience | Page 328 | Questionable Questing [Posts: 9853-10008]
##### NetTally 5.0.6

Task: 【NONE】
— Voters: 40

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
No. of Votes: 22
[X] dcoconeo
[X] Anjaxis
[X] Arrkhon
[X] AuthorTransient
[X] Clueless777
[X] Cochimetl
[X] Daveeed
[X] DelightedOne
[X] Greymere
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] MisRAR1
[X] Nevermort
[X] poyac
[X] Qwoptermain
[X] Random Anon
[X] Shaper47
[X] Solace2117
[X] Sveta08
[X] Talon Tiger Dino
[X] Turamarth
[X] Venerable Ro

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
No. of Votes: 17
[X] Earth-Destroyer
[X] Alan975
[X] Artemis_Fowl_2nd
[X] Calico J
[X] darknessworld
[X] des-pair-2
[X] Diamondfiend
[X] EigengrauFox
[X] Flaregamer82253
[X] IronHydra
[X] Portec
[X] Potdl
[X] Rafuki22
[X] retrueno
[X] Shaper47
[X] spiderhellian
[X] Witherbrine2671

[X] This place has a library. Go take a look.
No. of Votes: 12
[X] Nevermort
[X] Alan975
[X] Arrkhon
[X] Calico J
[X] DelightedOne
[x] Diamondfiend
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] HellFire666
[X] Limabot
[X] Qwoptermain
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Witherbrine2671

[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
No. of Votes: 10
[X] Nevermort
[X] Alan975
[X] Calico J
[X] DelightedOne
[X] HellFire666
[X] keykigdom
[X] Limabot
[X] Qwoptermain
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Witherbrine2671

[X] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?
No. of Votes: 10
[X] Nevermort
[X] Alan975
[X] Arrkhon
[X] DelightedOne
[x] Diamondfiend
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] HellFire666
[X] Limabot
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Witherbrine2671

[X] "Is there anything on your mind, Miss Jack?" (Approach Applejack)
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Nevermort
[X] Alan975
[X] Arrkhon
[X] DelightedOne
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[X] keykigdom
[X] Limabot
[X] Qwoptermain

[X] Alright, WHERE is Stormchaser? (Look for your dear beloved)
No. of Votes: 5
[x] Earth-Destroyer
[x] Diamondfiend
[X] keykigdom
[X] Limabot
[X] Rafuki22

[X] "To be honest? I think your job is better than mine." (Approach Cheerilee. She is here… somewhere)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Qwoptermain

[X] "Yes, it's about your daughter. What class I teach her? Well…" (Approach the Rich parents)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Calico J

---

Total No. of Voters: 40

 

[Kairae]

[X] Return home, with Diary, Frangiclave, and something else besides. Or rather, someone. (End the dream, bringing Twilight Sparkle with you, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[dcoconeo]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[DelightedOne]

The leash falling of on it own without a vote to remove, it has one and only one condition, that person that was leashed is now a minion without the leash. The leash fell off of Shining he is a minion that is objective fact.

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You know what, I'm too tired for this.

But fyi Bird did say there was no danger if the leash was taken off because he wouldn't pursue Twilight's kidnappers, then we got it back when the wedding was done because there was no reason to keep it.

 

[Zxzx24]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[Venerable Ro]

Uh... That wasn't what happened at all. Shining Armor is NOT our Minion in any way, shape or form, he is our employee. The Leash was dropped because of enough time having passed that he just forgot to ask Twilight about what happened to her, because stopping him from discovering Vekvet's shady life was the reason he was Leashed in the first place.

Click to shrink...

My impression was that the leash was effectively "handed over" to Cadance. Which is not to say that she's doing a Chrysalis, but rather she's the singular overriding influence in his life that occupies the space that the leash would have taken in his life.

Essentially, he's married to the Alicorn of Love, there's no competing with that.

 

[Quaxotia]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)
[X] This place has a library. Go take a look.
[X] They are young and impressionable. Thankfully, you are a responsible adult. (Hang out with Rarity and Fluttershy, your real-life confidantes)
[X] What is this "cellphone" all the kids are talking about? Why do you have one? And what is this "Internet" thing?

I really don't want to risk having to explain Twilight undergoing a changeling-esque replacement to Celestia or even the Bureau given our mandate about changelings. Comparatively the risk of Twilight joining Soft Sweeps' wolf cult seems less likely to blow up right in our faces. For all the evil of the wolf, it usually doesn't harm our immediate circle.

And in regards to morality, my thought is that chucking Twilight in the mirror world is a mercy only to her reflection. I'm confident that it will be yet another instance of Velvet "halping" her. I can understand wanting to recruit her mirror self as a follower to help attain Glory, but let's not rationalize it as anything more than that.

 

[Arrkhon]

Honestly I don't really get why we would even want Mirror Twilight that much? Yeah she would be confidant but she wouldn't be capable of actually doing much without us using one action at minimum to onboard her and we are on a pretty tight schedule right now, not to mention all the ways in which it could go wrong

 

[Machine Elf]

[X] Return home, with Diary and Frangiclave, and fulfill your bargain with the Daughter-of-Axes. (End the dream, and redistribute your remaining action points.)

 

[spiderhellian]

Changeling feels like the least likely concern really. Even if she gets dragged in front of the mirror… it won't show a changeling?

 

[Alan975]

Honestly I don't really get why we would even want Mirror Twilight that much?

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It's Twilight! It's for the Glory.

And we want her, another of the 6 to add to our colection.

Don't you want to read what Our Lady can make out of her?