Pittauro
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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience
- Thread starter OurLadyOfWires
- Start date
Shaper47
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Aside from Wolf sacrament for edge and winter. (Given the choice for our scar doing our personal edge sacrament would be really risky and the risk of killing foals for our personal Winter is a real turn off. Maybe we'll get some better Name options but given the Colonel's belonging deal I'm not too hopeful besides the Wolf is cheap, easy and free.)
We can pick up a prisoner from Copper's cult when we defeat her. Pop a lantern influence from Baldomare and have that conversation to get our personal sacrament. (Cheaper then Baldomare's price and we were doing some planning on crushing Copper anyways)
We can finally do our personal secret histories sacrament. (Really should have started this a while back, dangers are lesser given our reroll and due to the value of Baldomare actions personal is probably better)
Once we have a free turn we can pop a knock influence from Velvet Axe and focus on our personal knock sacrament. (Given our son this sacrament is surprisingly powerful)
We could combine our Grail and Moth personal sacraments. Once we get 4/4 grail (which is going to be a pain) we can forfill our personal sacrament with Rarity, Jade and some confident we have leashed. Then we can use that confident for our Moth personal sacrament. (Can't get the heirs sacrament anymore (real shame) and I think we'd prefer personal to our dear Lady in Wires sacrament)
Need more lore in heart and forge before we think of sacraments for them. Better get and read some more books.
Velvet should take responsibility for her own actions and let others take responsibility for their own. Don't dismiss others agency.
Besides Velvet may be an important piece on the board but she's no player yet.
Pittauro
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it has already been proven, without a shadow of a doubt (at least to me), that a regrettable action will ALWAYS be worse than just killing someone.
I'll take 3 random, untraceable, easily mistaken for "natural", that nobody will EVER be able to know were our fault, deaths, over wolf sacrament.
EVERY DAY.
damn, I'd take 3 dead unnamed foals over a regrettable actions, even. Probably better if we don't take it at all, but it's STILL much less tragedy brought to Equestria.
As of right now first wolf action "brought evil back to equestrian, making the world a worse place"
The second regrettable action brought paranoia, making ANY attempt at cooperation (far from Velvet's location) harder, which statistically will result in a LOT of deaths and accidents and missed opportunities in general.
The Third is apparently cursing every inventor to be afraid of the known wolf danger. Which will presumably nudge all development towards a more... militaristic bent, I imagine. And it will also mean that all inventors in Equestria will just have a worse life in general, dooming dozens to thousands of ponies to psychological problems.
3 dead foals is nothing compared to any of the above.
also the 4th wolf action is the point where "the filth becomes greater than what's pure", so to speak. Ideally we'll NEVER take another regrettable action again.
With Master it was probably worth it. with the first (survival) we really had no choice. With Soft Sweeps it might be the first action we'd not regret.
I'm kind of unsure if destroying the door was worth it, in hindsight. I'm leaning no on consequences, and yes on "it would have taken us so long to climb otherwise that I think we couldn't afford that risk".
It was more lack of actions than fear of danger that had us delay again and again I think.
I suspect it's more likely we'll take Mareinette to Personal grail, and even more likely we'll take neither.
By the wording, our personal grail sacrament is taking 3 of our closest friends, and brainwash them so they'll never betray us no matter what. I find it's a step too far for me.
I just wouldn't like to play a Velvet that's willing to do that to her closest friends. Even the leash, bad as it was, is at least temporary.
Even Rarity's current minion condition can be "removed" by teaching her Grail.
I can't bring myself to justify permanently brainwashing Velvet's closest (non-family) allies and friends.
I'd rather have her become a cannibal.
obviously the greater part of the fault in what happened to Twilight is on the Master and on Chrysalis.
We still made it possible for them to do it though. Our share of blame is smaller, but it's still there.
And considering Velvet just caused the death of the Master and leads the not-secret police, I'd argue she IS a player. Still a dark horse (pun!), but a player in truth now.
Other known players would be Celestia, Copper (a minor one), possibly Discord. Cadance is not quite there yet I think, and the Names explicitly are NOT players, not really.
...well, MAYBE Biedde's Edge Rival? That one might be, I suppose, but it still feels unlikely.
Shaper47
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I see where your coming from but narratively I feel like your still dismissing the agency of others.
In the end every pony gets to pick of their own free will how to act. They don't have to listen to Evil and perform dark deeps. They don't have to listen and follow Paranoia's words and instead can overcome them.
Negaverse wise all Evil does is add an option which doesn't have to be picked.
Ponies can get teamwork traits that overcome Paranoia.
The real tragedy of the regrettable actions is not that they make the world a colder place it's how they do it. The world becomes a colder place because ponykind makes it so. All the wolves do is set a path, it's ponykind that chooses to walk it. The darkness, the cold, it is a curse ponykind brings upon themselves. And so history repeats itself once more.
That would be more convincing if Harmony wasn't being worded the exact same way.
Shining will never betray Cadence no matter what after what Cadence did with the power granted to her by Harmony via her Element did to him.
Technically speaking Cadence brainwashed Shinning for her own personal Love sacrament equivalent. Now I'm not saying that's a moral thing for her to do but narratively Velvet seems set to support such actions.
Nevermort
A truly intelligent being has no time for testing
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As I mentioned before I don't quite agree with this interpretation.
Yes Rarity can be free from our influence, but it is personal sacrament that should be applicable for every case. Let's say we gathered 3 full time minions, what brainwashing them further will accomplish? It is entirely redundant at this point. They are already brainwashed to follow her.Thus Velvet making sure that they will never leave her is likely something else. Like binding their spirits to her so they can't die natural death. Or some kind of life sharing between each others. There are plenty of possibilities. I am not expert on CS rituals so I don't have a good guess at the moment, but we should not assume that Grail is restricted to mind control only. Perhaps the fact that we need four members can point to what ritual it may be. Another good indication of what ritual entail would be with whom Velvet will be willing to conduct it. If any family members can be included we can safely assume that it is nothing malevolent at least. I think Sacrament description mentions that Bird will tell us who is excluded from it so we will have additional info before attempting it.
Interestingly I think deciding to tell cult about Twilight being useful only as Shining Armor's sister played a major role in cult treating her as a means to an end instead of recruitment target. Cause we had a option to introduce her as prospective member instead, but wanted to keep her to ourself. And not coming on expedition to rescue her personally of course. Well it all ended up with getting Master into position to kill him so perhaps it is not the worst outcome.
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Pittauro
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That's like saying that, in real life equivalent, if a system is set up to make corruption inherently easier and more rewarding, it's still those being corrupted and corrupting who are at fault.
which is true, but it's also completely missing the point.
If you want to make things better long term, you need to deal with the incentive structure of the organization/society you're talking about. Trusting in the inherent goodness of people is just foolish if you don't make sure that such good behaviour is rewarded and incentivized, at least on a large scale.
Individuals are unpredictable. Groups are not.
So, sure, single individuals don't have to listen to Paranoia. That's represented in quest by high rolls on actions requiring cooperation. Many people who'd otherwise barely succeed will fail due to paranoia (-5), and that will definitely lead to deaths and accidents and suffering, which will (fairly quickly even) overshadow the suffering that a couple deaths brought on purpose would do, especially if we had picked the right targets.
not necessarily? In my opinion is more of a "makes bad actions worse" more than adding new ones. and someone, somewhere, will always pick the bad actions.
and if they had those traits while also not having Paranoia that would STILL reduce problems worldwide more.
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter how many teamwork bonuses or good ponies making good choices there are. Paranoia will make things worse than they could otherwise have been, and that amount of worse, while difficult to estimate, will easily be "worse than the alternative".
As I often said, we didn't, or at least SHOULD NOT have taken that regrettable action because it was the lesser evil. IT WAS NOT. We took it because the alternative was losing multiple turns to find victims to kill, time we could not afford, and also because it's an easier secret to keep from Stormchaser (and even if he found out, he'd likely not truly understand that what we did is WORSE than the alternative, preventing drama).
and?
If a murderers kills someone, that's on them. But stopping a criminal is and will always be less effective long term than removing the conditions that bring someone to become a criminal in the first place.
for a simpler example, someone who's been abused or bullied as a child is more likely to become an abuser or bully later on in their life. That's not a justification, they still made a choice, but stopping that first abuse/bullying episode would have likely stopped the second too.
Shining loves her. as far as we can tell, that love is genuine. Talks about what him being fated to love her mean are something I don't really want to get into because we don't know how that stuff works.
What we DO know is what Grail's sacrament would do. And generally speaking I believe it's worse than Mareinette's cannibalism requirement, and worse than Shining being "destined" to love Cadance.
It's... Let me put it like this: Brainwashing someone in a permanent manner is obviously bad. But what if it already happened and it's irreversible?
Would applying a SECOND round of brainwashing to re-establish something similar to what the person was before be better for that person, if they're currently happy?
I'm leaning towards no. Or, in other words, MAYBE Shining being fated to love Cadance is wrong. But unless there's a shining deep inside who hates feeling like that, we can't exactly fix it, and even if we could it would only make Shining (AND Cadance) unhappy, so what's the point?
On the other hand, I'm assuming that if Rarity, Jade and our third confidant (currently it would be Fluttershy) knew the details of the Grail Sacrament, they wouldn't want to undergo it (well, except Rarity when she's already a minion, but that's a TEMPORARY status as of right now). And their current opinion matters more, I think, and we should keep it in mind because that's what friends do.
At least with the Leash it's always been a temporary method we basically only used to save lives (ours, Rarity's...)... I'm still not sure if it was the right choice to use it on Shining to force him to propose, but at least we can sort of justify it to ourselves with a "he probably wanted to, he just didn't feel worthy of it, in hindsight he'd probably agree with the end result".
mh... I suppose the alternative interpretation is possible, but I find it more likely it's just a conventional "they'll love us forever and never go away" brainwashing option. Or, I suppose, a "remove the ability to stop loving us".
possible. Indeed if we had recruited her conventionally maybe things could have gone differently. Same if we told the Master more.
Then again, who knows. there's many what-ifs in our past, from "what if we focused more on the cult advisors" to "more if we broke Twilight's faith in Celestia" to even "what if we brought Luna to Celestia ourselves right when we found her"?
We know now Celestia has a Lantern 7 Mirror, that could have likely awakened Luna (if not gently). And there WAS a chance of us convincing Celestia of letting us do it our way, by slowly teaching Selene.
We really just don't know which what-ifs would have worked for the better and which for the worse.
DelightedOne
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Here we go again...
No, the Wolves don't add a "choice" they actively twist reality and the minds of ponies, we have proof of them making things possibly become worse with Celestia's "The mentality of the Sun" in Dies Irae where the 0 or lower roll has the color of the wolf
Baldomare also said Paranoia would actively make ponykind trust each other less and less until they go their separate ways.
There is also the thing where he makes it harder for cooperation to actually succeed so even if ponies chose to work together he could fuck it up somehow. And about the "ponies could get traits to mitigate the damage" argument that is why I want A host of guests to win because a trait that would actually work to combat Paranoia's influence would need to be available to ALL of ponykind not just a few ponies and considering how difficult it is to get regular traits imagine getting one that applies to three races at the same time constantly.
About the "Regrettable Actions aren't bad by nature it is just their effects that aren't good" argument: WRONG. They are literally called Regrettable Actions and are sponsored by the god(that is the only one acting so he can't be countered by other Hours) that hates and wants to kill everything including itself, dousing the lights is making a world where people don't want to live anymore that is why he does it. Also he literally made the Windigos not ponies so without that they would just be like humans in regards to the consequences of hate instead of freezing the world to death.
Also for the Harmony slandering: Shining Armor CHOSE to be with Cadance that is why he is Love's Chosen, the only mind control involved in their relationship was Velvet pulling on the leash to make him propose THAT is the only brainwashing that happened.
And Velvet has felt something like it first hand when Cadance asked her "Promise you won't leave me?". There was no altered feelings, no force just a question and an answer
Tl;dr: The Wolves use Mind Control and Reality Warping to do their jobs, it isn't a choice. Shining wasn't brainwashed to love Cadance, but Velvet did use the Leash to make him propose.
Sveta08
Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous
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I will not entertain the idea that the actions taken by the Wolf will prove to be anything but disastrous.
I include Soft Sweeps in this. But also recognize that there was no world where Velvet continued without doing that. That it is an uncertain tragedy in wait concerns me.
But the Wolf is not a tool to be used.
I include Soft Sweeps in this. But also recognize that there was no world where Velvet continued without doing that. That it is an uncertain tragedy in wait concerns me.
But the Wolf is not a tool to be used.
Solace2117
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Someone brought up the idea that idea that Harmony was the Sun in Splender or a piece of it reforged. This intrigues me cause in many ways Harmony seems to be the opposite of the Wolf Divided. Considering the Wolf is the wound created by the Sun in Splender's division it kind of makes sense that him reforged would be counter point. We don't have enough knowledge and I'm not an expert in the lore, but it one of the reasons I'm so interested in a host of guests. I doubt it'll have as great of an impact as the Wolf and really we don't have time to try and fully heal the wounds on the world either way, but I'm interested in seeing what happens.
Greymere
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Just want to point out that if it is a Watchman's Glass, which all descriptions of it so far have aligned with, it would actually be Lantern 6.
Iustus Vitea
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When? I honestly don't remember either. Wrong she can be, even the knowledge of a Lantern Name has limits, but I don't think she's been anything less then truthful
That one really wasn't worth it, when I read the update preceding that I literally put down my phone to pray you guys didn't use one of our limited get out of jail cards because you were squeamish.
Counterpoint, Velvet's Grail realisation was a kind of mild control and her general psyche makes me believe it will be something mind rapey
Oh and Stormchaser was forbidden as a participat sooooooo.
That is the barest of silver linings dude and so far removed from what happened that I hesitate to even say its connected. Quester's greed fucked us there. (Could someone explain specifically why people didn't want Twilight to be part of the cult btw? As in what action could she not do as a Cult member)
You know what the funky thing is? The Wolf-Divided may have existed before the SiS was struck down.
He's got Wolf iconography, there are sites dedicated to some unborn Wolf-God and in the histories the Sun rises again he doesn't rise as the Golden God-King but something altogether more bloody, his light red and the honor he held to diminished.
But the majority of that is BoH lore soooooooooo
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keykigdom
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Yeah agreed to be honest I think only killing the master was kind of worth it.
the door was such a waste on my eyes and probably a mistake in most senses as far as my opinion goes.
Had to take a small break after that one.
Pittauro
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there's an argument that if you were "destined" to do something ,was it ever really your own choice in the first place?
And the answer is likely "it depends". It depends on what "destiny" even is and means. Different fictional stories have Destiny are something immutable, or guidelines you can refuse or go against. For all we know Shining could have gone against his destiny (though why would he?)
I'm willing to make an exception for Soft Sweeps because in her case we sort of used the wolf embers to power her. It's an unclean power source, but AS LONG AS IT'S CONTAINED it's fine-ish.
Of course as we do more regrettable actions the wolf is strengthened, and so is the corruption inside Soft Sweeps. It's been all but confirmed that at max corruption SHE will be the last wolf child, the only wolf daughter.
That said, all wolf actions will end up being disastrous. Sometimes its worth taking them, but only because the alternative is even potentially worse... Or, more likely, more inconvenient to us
True, though close enough.
I think I voted "for" and I don't exactly regret it, but I got really annoyed at the arguments painting it as the MORALLY RIGHT CHOICE.
It wasn't. It was the convenient choice, and there's a valid argument to be made that we couldn't afford the alternative (multiple actions to identify targets, kill them, and hide tracks, plus a new secret to keep from Stormchaser)
DelightedOne
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Uh... So I had kind of a dumb idea... It is about Twilight.
Like every time I think about Mareinette I was thinking on how to kill her, that led me to remember everything she has done including the Incision of the Heart on Velvet and then I realized... she could do the same to Twilight.
I'm not sure if her mental state counts as a "Lasting Mental Debuff" or any other mind-affecting malus." but if it does there is a way to help her. And before I forget she can also perform The Forge's Redemption and since it involves Grail she will be capable of performing it without her negative trait([PROUD]: Will refuse to cast any rituals that do not involve Grail or Heart) interfering.
But the how is still not coming to me. I mean obviously we would need a Forge reagent(maybe we can get Forge to 4 and give Mareinette a reagent of that level) to be safe but I'm not sure how to approach that. Would a kidnapping suffice?
Did anyone else suggest that?
Like every time I think about Mareinette I was thinking on how to kill her, that led me to remember everything she has done including the Incision of the Heart on Velvet and then I realized... she could do the same to Twilight.
I'm not sure if her mental state counts as a "Lasting Mental Debuff" or any other mind-affecting malus." but if it does there is a way to help her. And before I forget she can also perform The Forge's Redemption and since it involves Grail she will be capable of performing it without her negative trait([PROUD]: Will refuse to cast any rituals that do not involve Grail or Heart) interfering.
But the how is still not coming to me. I mean obviously we would need a Forge reagent(maybe we can get Forge to 4 and give Mareinette a reagent of that level) to be safe but I'm not sure how to approach that. Would a kidnapping suffice?
Did anyone else suggest that?
OurLadyOfWires
Uh-oh, better hide those FOALS!
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Busy right now. Quick chime in.
I think everyone who is intereste in voting right now already made an appearance, and we had a great turnout. So vote will be closed on friday. Just letting you all know.
Second. Im still not used to the colors and visual cues of this site. So if i happen to forget or not see a ping or a question directed at me, feel free to ping me more times.
And as you all know, other informational threadmarks and whatnot will continue to be dealt with slowly.
Good day to us all.
I think everyone who is intereste in voting right now already made an appearance, and we had a great turnout. So vote will be closed on friday. Just letting you all know.
Second. Im still not used to the colors and visual cues of this site. So if i happen to forget or not see a ping or a question directed at me, feel free to ping me more times.
And as you all know, other informational threadmarks and whatnot will continue to be dealt with slowly.
Good day to us all.
Crystal Violet
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As far as I'm aware, that hasn't been brought up yet, though I haven't read through all the replies exhaustively so I can't be sure.
In terms of feasibility, I'm assuming it'll be a while before anything can be done on this front, since there appears to be quite a lot going on. I guess it'll depend on whether more things pop up, or if we'll have the time to do something regarding Twilight. Still, what you mentioned looks like it should work, though as you mentioned, I'm also unsure if what did happen with Twilight would count as something those rituals would work on.
Of course, beyond mechanics, it's probably reasonable to think that they would work, since the Lores seem to operate in that metaphysical, of sorts, manner regardless, though whether Velvet would be willing to do so is unknown, since she technically is somewhat responsible (or at least sees herself as such) for the situation in the first place, which could go in different ways. At least, if my memory doesn't fail me on how the story went...
^-^ I would also like to introduce myself, since I haven't spoken before, really. So hello!
spiderhellian
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"Yes, I ruined my friend's life. Yes, all she has asked of me now is to leave her alone. Yes, I would like to do better by her.
That's why I'm sending a monstrous horror to perform an eldritch ritual on her! It's for her own good!"
— Words of an absolutely insane cultist.
Sveta08
Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous
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It is not contained. It cannot be contained.
The Manus itself could not contain The Wolf. The reason it remained was because it sought pain and its own end, and where it was was how it could do that.
Soft Sweeps is....
Evil, Paranoia, and the youngest, Ash, will do their work. The capacity and understanding once more of an evil. The distrust inherent between others. The fear and suffering of what is out there, no longer hidden in the dark. They will do their work and the world will suffer for it.
Soft Sweeps will reap the harvest of their work.
She wears the face of a friend. She speaks and the uncertain rumblings that the people there felt responds. Because of course it does. Her brothers planted that worry, that fear, that uncertainty and despair.
Tell me. Velvet saw in the dim distance how Windy Flakes felt the touch from the wolf as it brushed by Winter. That from someone attuned to see.
What happens when a wolf wears the face of a friend? When they fan the embers and uncertainty in the hearts of others?
Soft Sweeps is galvanizing the people she meets. Those who are susceptible to the despair and the agony.
Where does that end?
It is not contained.
Zxzx24
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Good day to you as well @OurLadyOfWires
Should we be calling your our lady now instead of bird?
She skirts around her own rules about not helping us by keeping things vague.
When she left the first time...
Then we reminded the world of something it had forgotten.
Should we be calling your our lady now instead of bird?
Usually when it comes to thinks most personal to here.
She skirts around her own rules about not helping us by keeping things vague.
When she left the first time...
Harmony seemed to have contained it pretty well.
Then we reminded the world of something it had forgotten.
angelsadvocate666
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The problem with doing anything to Twilight is that, from what I recall, the healing rituals largely require willing targets. Or at least someone you can make remain very still and not do anything while you work strange , delicate, and eldritch magics on them that warp their minds and bodies.
We're also largely relying on her not actually knowing anything concrete and doing anything funny would ruin that. Well, unless we're happy sticking her in the basement forever so she can't tell on us, or just plain killing her.
We're also largely relying on her not actually knowing anything concrete and doing anything funny would ruin that. Well, unless we're happy sticking her in the basement forever so she can't tell on us, or just plain killing her.
Crystal Violet
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Hm, I didn't notice that piece of information, though it does make sense that a healing ritual requires cooperation. I wonder if it is possible to use a ritual with similar effects but without that component? At that point I suppose it would be more an offensive ritual than otherwise, but it's an interesting thought to consider.
As for Twilight's knowledge, not doing something about the current state of affairs makes it a pretty nebulous option to just ignore the situation, which seems to have been working... relatively fine for us, if not for Twilight herself. Though I'm personally a bit weary of putting off doing something about it, though it appears that we are rather busy for the foreseeable future regardless.
I suppose we don't need to get involved directly? Trying to do that might be a bit difficult to manoeuvre, however...
Edit: I admit that the final thought just above has probably been tossed around quite a bit, but I feel as if it comes down to trying to help Twilight without compromising our own goals and morals. Our own methods of attaining our goals being rather dubious without context (or even with it, given the Wolf), I'd say the conflict between those two are pretty much the point... That's what I think, in any case.
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Talon Tiger Dino
From the best dinosaur fighting game
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One day Twilight will learn how to cast explosion like that movie villain with the broken horn did.
We will be notified of when this happens by the Edge Dyad prompt suddenly popping up in our vote.
We will be notified of when this happens by the Edge Dyad prompt suddenly popping up in our vote.
Iustus Vitea
Not too sore, are you?
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Look people we decided that the wedding Twilight vote was the last time we'd try and fix that mess and for good reason too. Velvet simply doesn't have her trust and while she's apathetic enough right now not to make a gigantic fuss if we involve ourselves in her life after she specifically told us to fuck off she may start moving and we really don't want to have to get rid of loose ends now do we?
Either wait for the Bureau/Eclipse to discover the Lores and suggest Shinning and Twilight get healed then or let Soft work her magic whatever that may be.
No fucking over Twilight and our selves any further because you lot can't leave well enough alone.
Either wait for the Bureau/Eclipse to discover the Lores and suggest Shinning and Twilight get healed then or let Soft work her magic whatever that may be.
No fucking over Twilight and our selves any further because you lot can't leave well enough alone.
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DelightedOne
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The Incision might not work but the Redemption WILL and I think it was what Velvet was going to offer Twilight if she reached the third threshold in this:
The reason we couldn't reach it is because Mareinette chomped +20 from our grail influence that turn. But that is just one more reason to kill her.
The idea is her not knowing it was Velvet, at least not in the moment. Also I doubt she has the will to resist now, fixing the horn first should make her trust Mareinette, then if the Incision is confirmed to work we ask her if she would like to be relieved of some of her burdens.
Darkday
Getting some practice in, huh?
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Maybe we should let Twilight be for a bit considering the massive amount of stuff we need to do, the fact she wants nothing to do with us and the fact the most of our interventions in her life have made it worse. She is stable and we used one of the very valuable wedding opportunities to help her so maybe we should now try to focus on more pressing issues.
Sveta08
Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous
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- Oct 3, 2023
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Agreed.
Regardless of what we may want, we also have Selene and thus Luna to finish up this turn with.
As much as we may want to work with Twilight, until we see Where the Moon Falls, all planning at this point is speculative at best.
Solace2117
Know what you're doing yet?
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- Jun 11, 2014
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I'm going by the Wiki so it may be true though BOH I don't think is cannon for this quest. In Cultist Lore Gold King may be more bloody, but with MLP involved it would make since with Harmony. Also considering Harmony seems to be a diminished form of Glory it would make sense. It's all conjecture right now till we learn more.
Shaper47
Versed in the lewd.
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- Aug 25, 2019
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False, like really really false.
Cadence made Shinning her chosen, he's literally called loves chosen.
The difference between the two is that one is where a power that manipulates peoples feelings for them is used to ensure they can never leave and betray them. And the other is where a power that manipulates peoples feelings for them is used to ensure they can never leave and betray them.
We literally already had this conversation with Cadence about her brainwashing Shinning on the topic of him not being able to say no.
Narratively it is the point.
To use a metaphor.
Evil is a running a Gun shop with murderously low prices. Any pony can just walk into his shop and buy a gun to go murder someone. But he's not shooting ponies himself, he's not forcing them to kill and hurt others, he's just provides the tools for ponies to make the world darker of their own free will.
Paranoia is running adds on friendtube and ponies either have to deal with it or get a subscription to friendshipplus. He doesn't make friendship and working together impossible he just makes it require effort and hard work. Ponies are the ones who deside if they want to pay the cost, if they want to overcome their fear and work together.
That's basically the whole issue. After an era ponykind suddenly has a choice. They can choose to embrace inherent goodness or inherent evilness. But it's not Velvet's choice it's theirs. Blaming Velvet for others choices is dismissing the agency of others.
Harmony wins when ponies choose kindness the intent to help, the Lady of Wolves wins when they choose malice the intent to harm. Every choice is a ponies and theirs alone. Not Harmony's, not Velvet's, only themselves.
DelightedOne
Know what you're doing yet?
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- Aug 17, 2024
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For him to be her Chosen he needs to choose her too, their Love is mutual not one sided, if it was Grail instead of Harmony it would fit the power you described but it isn't so it doesn't apply.
Nice try twisting the conversation with Cadance though, here is what actually happened:
The issue was a social one based on her Princess title, where Cadance worried Shining Armor would do anything she wanted because she is a Princess, including marrying her.
Limabot
Expedition Probe from SV
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- Aug 24, 2024
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For now, I think Soft Sweep's therapy group will remain a mostly normal and constructive group, albeit one with subconscious undertones of agony and despair. Soft Sweeps herself is probably similar, being the same person she always was aside from the Wolves occasionally whispering in the back of her head.
However, I do agree that the group is kind of risky. If the Corruption in Velvet's Soul gets to 4 or greater, I could very easily see it turning malicious. As for specifics, I would say it would either turn into an apocalypse cult, a suicide cult, or both at once.