Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[OurLadyOfWires]

Goddamnit, guys. Stop giving me ideas!

I mean, Imagine if Celestia hit a zero on that roll. We'd have a very long, and very painful description of what she would do to Chrysalis, and then we would see what Lady Coelle would have inspired her to do next.

And then Velvet would get a dream, and a vote.

Or rather, a dream and a vote.

"There is something burning, inside the Mansus. A cast-off part of a greater whole, which was just thrown into that bottomless pit of knives."

"It will be lost, forever, unless you save it. It will be devoured, by the countless twisting fangs, unless you dive deep into that pit of tar to rescue it, before it is too late."

"Do you take the plunge?"

[] Rescue what is left of her. (THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION)
-You will save... not Celestia, but a filly called Ainé. And maybe, just maybe, something more besides.
-The world will pause its breath, as it is introduced to its new and terrible regent.
-THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION.

[] Do not.
-Nothing will happen, and the world will hold its breath as it is introduced to its new and terrible regent.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Yeah I know, but like, the Solar Hours existed pre-Intercalate as their own thing, you know? They were Names, not Hours, but they were definitely independent entities. I don't think Celestia secretly has a kid that will ascend to Solar Alicornhood upon her death laying around somewhere.

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I mean, sure, but do you really think Celestia doesn't have an inner kid somewhere in her personality? Especially with Luna and Selene's whole thing also being a precedent.

 

[DelightedOne]

Is that a fan theory or confirmed by word of bird?

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Okay when I wrote this I thought Bird said it but then I went looking and... Didn't find it? Sorry if that was just my imagination.

 

[Greymere]

[] Rescue what is left of her. (THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION)
-You will save... not Celestia, but a filly called Ainé. And maybe, just maybe, something more besides.
-The world will pause its breath, as it is introduced to its new and terrible regent.
-THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION.

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I wonder what sort of Wolf-son would be born from that kind of choice.

Desperation? Despair?

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I wonder what sort of Wolf-son would be born from that kind of choice.

Desperation? Despair?

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I like to theorycraft about wolf-sons in my off time (do not judge me ) and every now and then I come across the idea of "negative spaces".

This is a bit of a stretch, but this is how I my thoughts run, when they go down this road.

You would have rescued Ainé, yes? That would mean you had rescued "hope". That "hope" was safely tucked away in your home, in the shape of a filly.

But if "hope" is currently, and exclusively, in your home, doesn't that mean it is absent from everywhere else?

"Hopelessness" would be a good son for that. Especially given what Celestia would be doing in the meantime as well, and how ponykind in general would react.

This feels a bit like a Pandora's Box interpretation of hope, but it's where my theorycrafting led me, at least once.

Edit: Desperation and Despair also sound like great names, for the same idea.

 

[Pittauro]

Oh, cool update! I can see that this will definitely make turn planning less involved (there were a sprawling amount of options). I also quite like that it'll let us get some narrative integration of followers in other actions. And it's great that the poor, poor, Servants may finally be freed from Jade's house.

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and generic book search. they did a lot of that too before.

Right now we only have a use for lvl 3 heart books, and beyond that we NEED lvl 4 or 5 to have them matter at all for Velvet (ignoring Bright Library).

Hm. There's also the dilemma that making a decision about whether we'll need the 100 bits from Rarity is quite dependent on what actions we want Velvet to perform. E.g. it might be necessary if we're trying to double-summon, but we won't make that decision yet. Maybe we can also get the number of bits Rarity earned..?

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eh, generally speaking we should take the Commission whenever we believe Rarity (and her career) can afford it. Right now I think it's fine. Better to have too many bits than too few, and we can always find ways to use them.

We still need to give her another lesson so she can get a grail re-roll though. Same for Jade.

Edit: Hey, I just realized. Our servants might finally be able to be (indirectly) useful again!

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I KNOW!

So, about your own actions available, keep focusing on winning, try not to lose, and reach for Glory, as every cultist should.

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but HARMONY! We even have a Luna now!

My completionist run!

Jade can't yet, as she is focused on the Memory of Light. And Baldomare is not interested enough, you should bribe her with more books.

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ok, so first finish the Memory of Light (ideally make her Lantern 4 first, to hopefully get it in one turn), THEN we can maybe make some custom rituals.

Maybe we can later try to make a ritual for Luna to use against Daybreaker? Sort of a fusion of Incision + PtN, to operate on Celestia's psyche through a dream? Moth + Knock + Edge, if we can make 3-circles rituals that are NOT summoning.

3 - Not mutually exclusive. In fact, having your detectives follow up investigations WHILE constables go for ponies-of-interest would be ideal, if you are going for that.

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worth considering, though giving up an action is a bit annoying.

She has been getting around 40 I think? Assume you'll get 40. If the planning gets to the point where we really need to nitpick exactly how many bits I can roll it earlier.

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We got 57 on one turn I think. I kind of expected higher income from her success in the wedding, personally.

Like, going from around 40 to around 60-70.

I still want to bring her (and Jade, and to a lesser extent Fluttershy) up in lore levels. Rarity at 4-2 would likely do a better job in general.

Given Selene's dream powers could we have her contact or spy on people from their dreams?

For example could we sent Selene to visit Cooper and get her wake location from her dream.

Or send Selene to make contact with Windy to bring him into the fold.

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Spying is a good idea in general. though cultists might not have dream doors for Selene to reach, so she'd be spying instead for followers not yet initiated I imagine.

This isn't in any particular order, just what I remember people mentioning during the discussion over the past week or so, plus some of my own ideas/preferences

1. Comet Feet FO
2. Call a Secret Histories Influence (base cost 30 bits, +45 w/ Level 3 reagent)
3. Search for the Outsider
4. Secret Histories Sacrament
5. Filthy Rich social (can be deferred to free social action)
6. Read books
7. Summon Biedde (base cost 100 bits, +45 w/ Level 3 reagent, +90 w/ two)
8. Summon a MitL (base cost 55 bits, +5 w/ Level 1 reagent, +20 w/ Level 2, +45 w/ Level 3)
9. Beneath the Royal Castle, Part 2 (can be deferred to Followers)
10. Start on personal Winter Sacrament (only mentioned like once in the discussion, but it was mentioned; costs 30 bits)

If anyone has anything to add to this, feel free to point it out.

And while I'm at it, here's my personal list of Shit I Really Want Done for the follower phase:

1. RotT for Frangiclave
2. RotT for our manuscripts and any other physical evidence linking us to the cult
3. Do something about investigating the Manehattan cult (this will probably end up in Mareinette's hooves )
4. Someone needs to guard our house

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Study book allows for potentially lvl 4 reagents.

we could make multiple reagents, and that's an extra action ( we get 1 without AP, and another 2 per 1 AP spent).

We could teach Jade, Rarity or Fluttershy more lores and bring them to 4-2 (or 3-1 for Fluttershy), which makes them more useful. In particular Jade gets a reroll for scrying and memories of light, and Rarity gets better at socialing and presumably at her job.

oh, and of course we could explore the Mansus more. there's plenty of places left there, and Mansus is a source of lore scraps and potentially more valuable stuff. There's the Depths of the Ruined Church, the areas around the Tricuspid, the Wolfed Woods, and I think still an area in the staircases as well.

Relatedly, in terms of how she understands her identity, how much is she "fully Selene and fully Luna" versus "a third persona that has the memories of both" versus "all personas were always the same 'person'"? (Sidenote: I feel like I'm arguing about some theological topic… ) We did see the Luna and Selene personas talk to her as entities distinct from the new persona in her dream. And of her memories, she says:

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well, like Luna in the dream said, "Luna is the past, Selene the present, the Daughter is the future".

I'd say she's both and neither.
She's Selene after growing up and recovering Luna's memories.
She's a Luna who lived a wonderful second childhood to recover from her trauma.
She's the Daughter. Selene to her loved ones (except Celestia, at least for now), Luna to Celestia, and Princess Luna to her subjects.

…and relating to this quest, I would interpret that her horseshoes are a core part of her self-image, and thus automatically manifested when she "woke up" and when she adopts her "Luna" appearance.

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there's also how, you know, she probably wore them before/while becoming Selene. Shapeshifting 101 usually shapeshifts your clothes too

Mareinette: Social Filthy Rich

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note for Mareinette: YOU ARE NOT TO SLEEP WITH HIM WHILE HE'S THINKING YOUR ME!

Marinette should either give us lessons, get us money, or go eat Copper. Unless Ash beat her to it.

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...to get us money, would Mareinette scam them out of someone, "persuade" someone...

or just... whore herself out?

and yeah, we still don't know about Ash!

Actually, thinking about it, the more I kinda just… really want to do the Outsider search and Sacrament. Biedde and book reading and socials are cool, but unless we're really expecting Copper to try jumping us, I don't think we need any of them immediately. This is, however, the first time where we've had a completely quiet turn in… gods, I don't even know. Really fucking long. There's almost nothing we absolutely need to do with Velvet specifically except summoning DoA.

So. Call up DoA. Burn our reagent creation on an SH reagent and call the Influence. Then do two Outsider searches and a sacrament action. Take this one chance to actually do things purely selfishly for once and actually make progress on our main goals rather than just… maintaining side stuff. Let all these minions do their job and handle everything else for us.

That's probably the plan I want.

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it's not a bad plan, really.

You'd be for Calling an Influence over using Baldomare for it? In that case, with the Influence persisting to next turn, we could maybe do two Outsider Searches this turn and two Sacrament actions next turn?

Maybe have the Sacrament actions conditional on if we had to use a reroll for the calling an influence ritual? I don't want to take a tier 2 influence if we roll really low. I can accept both 3 and 4, but not 2.

We might also potentially consider an SH 4 reagent instead of 3. it costs a LOT more (80 bits vs 45), but it's another +10...

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for the lvl 5 book scrying... instead of buying it, I think we're better off scrying for an "easy/normal" expedition site with that book, and then we send Mareinette to get it next turn. She's basically as good as Axe in expeditions, more or less, isn't she? And an expedition would be cheaper than buying the book AND might have more stuff available as loot.

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...it's only 3-4 pages, but they're so DENSE!

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6) Beneath the Royal Castle, Part 2. Apply gift to cost if DoA leads (which she probably will be)

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oh, that's allowed?!

7) Prepare Jade's house (again)

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do we really care about that?

- AotL: Outsider search

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Do we still get free AotL? I thought we lost that when we left the cult.

- Forge: SH3

1) Read books (Forge 3, Forge 3, Mystery Book)

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should we consider SH 4 reagent?

Considering the theory of ascending through this:
We'd reach 3. Looks to me like it is
0: Shits fucked. Completely and utterly fucked.
1-2: Anger. (2: Teetering on brink of collapse into 1: let loose)
3-4: Depression
5: Harmed, lessened, but still there still helping
6: Fully there.
7: Better than before.

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I think it doesn't make much sense thinking like this.

She's currently at 2. But solving 2 doesn't necessarily mean she HAS to go through all steps up to 7.

The solution might very well have her skip the "depression" stages.

-Add the "Search Canterlot for an Outsider" action as a general action. Just remembered anypony can do it (but mostly Baldomare will be good at it).

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oh, that's pretty useful! Sure, Baldomare is best at it, but every extra 1d100 can help. And indeed if we have multiple confidants help we can do it fairly quickly!

-Add the caveat that Mareinette can perform your coming FleetOp with Comet Feet, since she can "step in" on your horseshoes.

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...I do NOT feel comfortable with this!

-Add a note that "This is NOT a Fleeting Opportunity for this turn. But Velvet will receive a prompt that she should also look for a place in the Mansus where she can take an Outsider's blood, although the Forge-heavy place at the top of the Mansus seems like the obvious first place to look (Mansus action)"

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Interesting, but yeah, not a priority.

-Change the "Non-Contested summoning" vote. I just realized that Luna can summon DoA with very little risk (+20 general bonus, +30 on all relevant Lores, plus +50 for Knock due to Reagent + Wrong Key). And she is willing to surrender the bindings immediately (Confidante). So, add option of "Have Luna do it instead", which is prefferable because it does NOT cost a precious Velvet action.

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Summoning requirements: KNOCK 120, EDGE 60, WINTER 60.

mh... Not sure.

+50 to everything. Goes up to +100 knock, +60 edge, + 50 winter, right?

She's still a bit short. and Velvet's re-rolls make her better suited to this.

If she had the lvl 4 roles she'd be perfect for it. I suppose we can get her another +5 to general bonuses from training first maybe? That makes it better, but still no rerolls.

-[Baldomare] Go have fun (commission bits +?) or Channel an Influence (Secret Histories)

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nah, we very much need to scry for Frangiclave to search for it soon.

You know, looking at this:


It seems to me that Status 3 is most likely "Celestia stops raising the sun, ponies have to take it over again."

Combine that with the knowledge that Celestia's gift to Cadance would have been the "other people can raise the sun" tool... I am reasonably sure that Celestia's Wedding Guest option would have given her +1 mood.

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Maybe not a full +1 on that scale, but definitely a step forward.

I would be inclined to agree.
But.

There is no coincidences. Those deaths may be random in a causal way. But I would water we would know one of them who would die. At least.

And what person do we know that we would so willingly give up? Remember, it is a lesson. In Winter.
What sort of lesson would it be if we didn't learn something?

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nah, we've been explicitly told nobody in our contact list will die. I truly believe the deaths will be random, and statistically speaking Velvet will never even find out who died.

This is the "press this button, a random person dies but you get a million dollars" thought experiment I've heard about in the past. Pragmatically and selfishly, there's basically no downside to pressing the button. ESPECIALLY if you're assured nobody YOU care about will die from it.

I suppose winter sacrament makes it worse because if, say, Velvet hears of a strange sudden death during this month, she'll connect the dots. That said, people die all the time. Plenty of people will die in their sleep, like many old ponies. Velvet can't be absolutely sure it was her... though admittedly the younger and healthier the pony that "just died" is, the more likely it is it was the Sacrament action.

We're at 93% with an Edge 4 reagent (83% with Edge 3) and the Knock 2 artefact! That's pretty damn good!

Biedde can guard amazingly well (and I wonder if he might do so for free). We can also just… send him to attack Copper if we want.

Names are very good to have.

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Considering we're probably never studying that artifact unless we end up in the weird position of "we have only 1 artifact or 1 book to study and need to pick a second item", I'm fine sacrificing it.

93% is good enough. Worst case, we try again. Failing a ritual is not necessarily the end of the world, usually.

It IS for some. Failing Axe means Copper gets a shot at her. Same with failing Baldomare last time. And failing Incision, Redemption or EiB has consequences.

Hahahaha I was wondering about this. It is nice to have the get out of jail free card, and it's a big boost to our followers to have a good artefact in each area… but 45 bits is non-trivial.

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I'd rather not. lvl 3 artifacts are good for our confidants to do rituals for us too! Admittedly Incision ( the main one using Edge) can be done by Luna now though...

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PAUSE.

last page left, I'll catch up later!

EDIT: ...ok, a bit more than one page >_>

 

[angelsadvocate666]

…You know, I would feel really sorry for Silky if that happened. Because the moment Selene grew up, she would have to start considering if Aine would as well. And that's a really sad thing to have to live with expecting.

In the other hand, she's also sister to two Princesses. So that's nice.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

...Actually. You know what? Bird said he's going to optimize for who can do what, so we can totally put in the order to go get a dead body in the follower phase plan on T20 and use it to make a Shattered Torn Risen. We make a SH3 reagent this turn, a Edge 3 reagent next turn, then sacrifice the Edge 3 reagent and the Torn Risen to summon Biedde T20. Problem solved?

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A dead body also saves us Bits! Plant corpse puppeteering ftw!
But uh, can we afford the Bits for an SH 3 Reagent and an Edge 3 Reagent? They are what, 45 a pop for 90 Bits total? Between the scrying the summoning the influencing and possibly the book buying I'm not sure we can.

Side note... maybe we should have one of the Luna actions be "Keep watch over Velvet while doing SH Sacrament stuff to stop potentially-evil-Velvet from doing stuff"?

I forget, is Soft a pegasus? contact list doesn't say.

Anyone who answers "she's a wolf" gets a BONK!

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Having Selene watch over us if our alternate needs a good walloping is quite prudent, I agree.
She is a Wolf-Powered Pegasus, and the Wolf did not consent to this.

Luna only has a 74% chance of success, unfortunately. That's a bigger risk then I'd like when the Cult is also likely to try summoning, and when we promised our brother she'd be back.

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Yeah, I don't like the odds of failure there either. Sorry Luna. You must train harder.

Yeah, I kind of support sending forth Mareinette to make money, to be honest. We are heading for a major bit crunch these coming turns, especially if we are unlucky and no suitable books are found when combing the depths of the Canterlot Caverns.

 

[Greymere]

A dead body also saves us Bits! Plant corpse puppeteering ftw!
But uh, can we afford the Bits for an SH 3 Reagent and an Edge 3 Reagent? They are what, 45 a pop for 90 Bits total? Between the scrying the summoning the influencing and possibly the book buying I'm not sure we can.

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Yeah, that's why I also have a plan that's still focused on working toward Glory (i.e. finding the Outsider), but doesn't call the Influence (saves us 55 bits, since it does still make a SH2 reagent for Jade). Mareinette doesn't go get more bits in that one, but that's easy enough to change.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

A dead body also saves us Bits! Plant corpse puppeteering ftw!

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Nah, the Plant Corpses are the Moth Risen, and those don't exist anymore since we burnt down the Woods.

…Actually, that makes me wonder. If the Master was the will of the Woods, and we were using bits of the Woods to animate our Risen, did the Master have awareness and possibly control of them if he wanted? Hell, this really puts the fact that we used them as sacrifices in summoning the Master into a very ironically appropriate context.

 

[Greymere]

@OurLadyOfWires Hey Bird, can we shove Wood-Ash into a Risen and get an extra-Edge Risen?

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Actually, that reminds me, wasn't there something about using seeds to replant the Woods that somebody asked about? Implied to be those Risen that ended up becoming weird trees in our garden or… something.

@OurLadyOfWires i think you said that would come up really soon? Did you forget it, or have we just not reached the "soon" point yet?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Don't we get a Shattered Risen if we do the Winter Realisation now?

The thing about the commission is that a) it automatically fails Rarity's career roll for that turn and b) it's very stressful on Rarity. Meaning that if we take a commission, the passive bits we will receive next turn will likely be greatly reduced, and we can't really take two in a row because it would be too stressful on Rarity. Or, to put it another way, we should really only be using the commission option if our planned expenditures for the turn would otherwise put us into the negatives. If we're doing both Frangiclave and summoning Biedde next turn, we'll want as many bits in storage as possible. And if it turns out we didn't need as many bits as expected? Well now we have more spare bits to go on other expeditions or summon lesser spirits (e.g. MitLs).

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Can we confirm the DoA expedition costs being reduced by the gift thing? Because without that the expensive variant of your plan your plan may go into the negatives.

Also, I would really prefer to do the Comet Fleeting AP and see no point in the constables pursuing the Changeling matter this turn.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Nah, the Plant Corpses are the Moth Risen, and those don't exist anymore since we burnt down the Woods.

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And here I thought both types of them were planty. Oh well. General necromancy ftw!

 

[Greymere]

Can we confirm the DoA expedition costs being reduced by the gift thing? Because without that the expensive variant of your plan your plan may go into the negatives.

Also, I would really prefer to do the Comet Fleeting AP and see no point in the constables pursuing the Changeling matter this turn.

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It's being used by her and it's a Lore-related thing, so I don't see why it wouldn't, but it wouldn't hurt to confirm w/ Bird, sure. @OurLadyOfWires Yay/Nay on Pride's gifts reducing expedition costs and not angering Pride as long as DoA is leading it?

Tbh, I don't really see the Comet Feet FO being productive. I think it's more likely we'll just end up either pissing him off further or making him even more mistrustful/scared of us rather than actually defusing any tension.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

@OurLadyOfWires could their be a general action where a confidant just does things to get spare money.

And could Mairinenet say host a fund raising party in Canterlot or some other place.

I am really sick of not having enough bits to go around.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Also does being able to make T4 reagents really matter? Like we need to nickel and dime for our current actions, we can't afford the additional 35 bits cost for T4 reagents. Sure if you want it for the Forge reroll then thats fine but we don't have a pressing need for Forge this turn.

 

[Greymere]

Also does being able to make T4 reagents really matter? Like we need to nickel and dime for our current actions, we can't afford the additional 35 bits cost for T4 reagents. Sure if you want it for the Forge reroll then thats fine but we don't have a pressing need for Forge this turn.

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It's not about getting access to Level 4 reagents (for me), it's about making sure that our Forge books aren't obsoleted by us finding Forge scraps elsewhere while we actually have the time to read them

 

[angelsadvocate666]

I'm fine waiting on Forge 4. We don't seem likely to get scraps there any time soon, either. And since people seem to have worked out viable alternatives to level 4 reagents, it's just not necessary.

 

[DelightedOne]

Also does being able to make T4 reagents really matter? Like we need to nickel and dime for our current actions, we can't afford the additional 35 bits cost for T4 reagents. Sure if you want it for the Forge reroll then thats fine but we don't have a pressing need for Forge this turn.

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There is also All-4, possible Sacraments, higher bonus, Redemption of the Forge when Cadance becomes a Confidante...

 

[Greymere]

I am curious to find out what our Forge Sacrament will be, though. My guess it would be building some kind of mega-project? Like making the Dawnbreaker Core, but hopefully with considerably less nukes and blowing holes into the Histories?

Edit: Or, if Bird is taking inspiration from the Forge ascension in CS, some kind of body modification?

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Getting all 4 Lores is still very important. We need it to do the next teach the family action. I am certain that Silky would not have taken thing so well with Luna, if she did not have advanced lores.

Personally I am thinking it time to spend 2 actions on the Mansus, getting scraps for Lantern, Knock and Edge from the names we have access to.

 

[Lorrie]

Getting Heart 4 is more appealing as it can be used to stay alive and thus a reroll on that would be much more useful.

 

[Greymere]

Getting Heart 4 is more appealing as it can be used to stay alive and thus a reroll on that would be much more useful.

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We can't get to Heart 4 this turn anyway?

 

[Lorrie]

We can't get to Heart 4 this turn anyway?

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I was speaking in general.

 

[DelightedOne]

Oh. Getting books in Ponyville could be the Servant action this turn. It is the place that gives Heart books the most, after all.

 

[spiderhellian]

Also does being able to make T4 reagents really matter? Like we need to nickel and dime for our current actions, we can't afford the additional 35 bits cost for T4 reagents

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It lets us summon Biedde quite safely this turn! That's not trivial.

 

[Greymere]

It lets us summon Biedde quite safely this turn! That's not trivial.

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Or we could just summon him next turn for considerably fewer bits (Edge 3 + Torn Risen)? Because, considering the current pattern of reagent-crafting costs so far, I would be 0% surprised if the cost to make a Level 4 reagent is 100+ bits.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Much as I've fallen off on wanting Biedde immediately, I do have to admit it would be pretty dang cool to finally have Bird's dream of a halfway house for Names fully achieved. Four seperate old Monsters, Luna possibly counting as a fifth, and Velvet as the most powerful mortal alive is just a really funny household image.

Oh, and Soft Sweeps too! Just for the lols.

 

[Nevermort]

@OurLadyOfWires I have few questions in regards to new rules. During Velvet vote phase what happens with actions that give us additional actions like summoning and obtaining confidants? If Velvet summons Mares in Mirror or completes her social with Filthy Rich would we be able to use their actions same turn? or they need to be done in follower turn like with DoA summon?

And also what happened with []Accompany you, and lend her hoof actions from followers. Was it removed under new rules?

Wanted to ask about general actions for gaining bits too but seems I was beaten to it.