Late November 1913 Part 2
Imperator Pax
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Late November 1913
Part 2
The British band down on the floor swelled to its conclusion and the party goers clapped politely.Part 2
The thing about the end to the 'Second Revolution' was regardless of Zhang's presence or any of the other Beiyang officers and their staff was that it meant a perceived return to normal business. Vickers, Siemens, were only really two of the names of those great globe striding companies with offices in the Chinese Capital and who's officers were present at dinner parties, and soirees. Everyone was here, and for most part English was the language spoken... the British Empire strode the globe and companies like Vickers knew it. This was the ideal scene to finalize details and matters with Percy.
"Is the contracting paperwork finished?" Forrest Senior asked putting the scotch and soda water to the side.
The son put his own aside, "Just about. There are a few more details. We'll have to work things out with the Swiss," But that wasn't likely to be any trouble, Bert and a couple of the other guys could do with a trip to Europe anyway. The wonder of steam ships no longer dependent on the wind made it so there were no concerns such as those that had been in the days of the East India Company a ship could make for Europe and be there several weeks, and of course an American travelling to Europe from China and going back wouldn't attract much in the way of attention. They had letters from John Jordan anyway, and the British Foreign Service. "Its as good of time as any for a visit," Bert would be able to visit Italy and Belgium as well and wherever else. "Reinsch say something?"
"He requested your academic file from West Point. I expect given the thoroughness on display he'll request the service jackets and and material from the rest of your conglomerate in due time. I know he's spoken to Pershing by telephone as well." The latter was less of a surprise, nor was it really a surprise when the elder Forrest glanced down from the bannister at one of the Vicker's officers, "Pershing asked me whether you've tested Lewis's gun in eight millimeter?"
"Not personally, Sam has done a couple of tool room guns."
"Do they work?"
He shrugged. Griswold liked them better than working with the potato diggers, and Maxims, but that might have just been they were something new. "I suppose so," But they were labor intensive and the machining, a trip to Denmark for more Madsens wasn't a terrible idea for a prospective outing to Europe. "Griswold will test them until they don't." Probably to catastrophic failure inside of a rest.
"So they work." The old man settled on, "Going to mount them on air planes, are you?"
"I don't have any air planes, you know that."
"Have you shown them to Yuan?"
"Not as of yet." There was a matter of cost there. Yuan would have been interested in such a design... and yeah the friend of friend angle would have encouraged him towards interest in such a new weapon, but Yuan had a tendency towards sticker shock for new weapons even as much as he wanted to modernize his northern army. "The Beiyang has expended a lot of money as of late," Burned through a substantial portion of its budget that had been intended to last through 1915 more like. "and Yuan still wants to downsize the army." Something he couldn't do with the south restive as it was.
"Even after those Danish Madsens of Cai's?"
"Yuan has some Madsens," Or Rexers, "of his own," Or Second Division had had some, and they were probably not the only Beiyang division, "The Hotchkiss performed well too." No, Yuan would listen to his officers and since of course none of them would agree on which machine gun was best things would likely stall out for a while until both money and a compromise could be figured. Neither of those were likely to happen any time soon. Allen picked up his glass and took a sip, "Is this about Colt?"
"More about General Crozier, if you start testing, I want copies before anything is published, and certainly before its released for circulation."
It was an absurd ask for the old man to make. General Crozier had powerful friends, and more than that even was the ongoing argument with Isaac, and that was the larger issue. "Isaac expects copies of anything we learn, and the performance. As I just said," Between everything else going on, "Sam hasn't had much time to do anything substantive in the last few months. Next spring maybe."
"That would be good." He wondered if the old man thought things might have settled down by then, which seemed ridiculous... neither Crozier or Newton were the sort who'd just let the matter lay. "What about Shinnozaki? Have the Japanese observed any of the test.
He shook his head and sipped his whisky, as he hadn't even considered that there might be an interest there, "What's this about Nanking I've heard coming from Reinsch?"
"I don't believe the minister intends to stir things up with Zhang Xun, but he wasn't particularly happy with the situation down there." The promotion to Field Marshal was something on, and off again the subject of much gossip in a city that was drowning in rumor, and speculation. "Zhang went to call on all the consuls after the Japanese one."
"To under cut Japan's claims I suspect," Allen remarked.
"Perhaps so," Zhang Xun wasn't the only one the Minister was ducking right now, but Hayashi had the Italians to keep him company it seemed. They paused as the German marines in their new uniforms took their turn at the instruments on the stage. The Germans, and the English always seemed to alternate with one another at these sorts of events. It had become routine. "The Germans had problems maintaining a native police force the first couple of years."
"That's not why I asked John Jordan for the dispensation."
"I wasn't saying it was, but I also know you're friendly enough with the Germans to be aware of their problems."
Desertion was less of an issue for them though. It wasn't the 1890s anymore, the Qing were gone now for good and bad, and beyond that, "As Pershing would say a good soldier needs a good foundation to be built up from." and their teething experiences had really been during the Xinhai two years back, even if there would likely be problems as they put more men into the field. "Meyer-Waldeck and I have lunch the day before I leave town."
"I had heard you were sitting down with the German Governor, career navy man like that." He took a drink, "Siemens has those wireless sets, unless this is about artillery."
"Its the latter, it was something Percy has been worrying on."
"Ah export or domestic production at license of Krupp's guns. Any prospects?"
Not any time soon with the state of the Beiyang Army's budget unfortunately, but the Captain-Governor of Tsingtao was more than willing to demonstrate the artillery of III Seebatallion for the Beiyang's artillerymen. Selling locally would have been nice, that had been the whole plan for a number of projects after all.
--
Alfred's artillery demonstration saturday had been the whole spiel down to the brass band, and polished boots. The Peking detachment had shown an effective precision even if with the available drill space hadn't had the option to truly demonstrate the heavy howitzers full range. It had however been an excuse for champagne and hor d'oeuvres in the waning afternoon.
Peking, Tietsin, like Shanghai, and Canton down south though were used to these sorts of gatherings of the great power's enclaves and the turn out was substantial in the number of Chinese who came along to it. It didn't escape Allen that as much, as normal as the return to such a gathering seemed Bai Lang was still out in the field with an army of substantive number even if it was divided into separate divisions and formed into at least one north and south army each.
Only the Ottomans of the Great Powers could really be considered absent. That wasn't to say the Pasha in Constantinople was absent Asia. Letters in 1900, and onwards from the Caliph, and Grand Vizier on the US's behalf had been a vital part of operations in Sulu, and with the Moros, and various muslims in the former Spanish colony. China though? Not a priority for the House of Osman and they had never participated in the Eight Nations Alliance. To be fair of course even if they had wanted to involve themselves the Balkan wars ending the past spring had marked the lose of the last of the Ottoman possessions in the region.
Italy, and Austria-Hungary, Belgium, and Russia had all put in appearances, as had others ranging from the Dutch all the way up to of course to Hayashi making an appearance on behalf of the Japanese Emperor. John Jordan was occupied with his opposite from Russia. This was all about the game, the prestige, the pageantry put on for expats, and Chinese residents to the concessions and regular chinese citizens as well as to their leaders.
To say that business as usual was back. To assuage everyone to go back to spending money, and making money.
Cao Kun sipped his champagne even before the refilled flute could slow from bubbling, "You have some of those." It was a wholly rhetorical question even in the minister of posts a little stilted English from the drink. "I mean you can bore them out."
"We will be able to," He replied, they weren't quite to domestic production for the line. "The first batch of steel for the barrels hasn't actually been bored yet." Barrel manufacturing was a time intensive process. He noted Cao Kun had managed to get through half of the French fizz already even nodding along, "Breech blocks, springs, wheels we will be able to manufacture all of that." That had been Griswold's whole reason to getting a license from Krupps, because at some point Yuan Shikai was probably going to have wanted artillery. Krupp's local representative was busy chattering away with Griswold over who knew what arcane minutiae. "The new trail design can be used on the smaller guns you've already got, it will give them more elevation."
Cao Kun nodded, "We have bad roads, the steel wheels are nice, but I don't always have trucks even in Zhili, you know." As with machine guns, and artillery, and other equipment besides, the Beiyang divisions had a tendency to run off with each others specialist tools, "That scoundrel who still has his queue took all of mine down to Nanking."
That was news to Allen, but truthfully he wasn't surprised, "Did you get them back?" His interest piqued.
"Some of them." Cao replied waving for another flute of fizz.
He glanced back towards the gathered officers of armies, and industry. For all the perception of normality conveyed by this gather, and the others like it... it was a lie. This whole affair was a dog and pony show for public consumption.
--
Commentary: I need to point this out early, just so its been stated before, during this period the fedora is a woman's hat its only in the interwar years that men started wearing it, but it was originally worn by women from about eighteen eighty onward, generally in somewhat fancy semi formal attire and up, not really a working class piece of gear.
For this I haven't really focused on Edwardian era attire, but realistically speaking I probably should, during this period there is a lot of social transition going on not just in China, where this story is set but also globally as luxury clothes continue to proliferate.
Anyway, as to the Norway thing, basically before 1923 probably not, and by that point the market for WW1 surplus as available is complicated by the arms embargo. The best way to circumvent that is well for a signatory to go through Vickers in Britain who has enough clout that John Jordan can't do anything about it, or go through a nonsignatory like Sweden, or Czechoslovakia or Switzerland or Weimar Germany.
The other signatories it varies. Italy would be a potential option of sorts, but they have other problems, though they are providing arms into China to other people. Soviet Union, kind of obviously out even after the end of the Russian Civil War for reasons. Denmark, actually made an effort to stop arms traffic from their nationals. Netherlands up in the air especially after 23. France mixed bag lots of political changes at home, and economic issues, but post 23 aircraft are on the table, as are tanks. Japan limited options but they did sell to basically everybody at least in terms of small arms though Great Kanto Earthquake, and then the big stock market crash later in the decade. Belgium is an option FN sold to plenty of people but that's mostly limited to small arms. Spain originally skirted the treaty by selling pistols, and then they kind of just through pretending out the window. Aircraft, machine guns, autocannons, etc by the later half the decade. Brasil and Portugal I can't comment on, I know they agreed to the May 5th agreement at the onset, but I don't know what their role in it was, we know that Portuguese surplus made into China but yeah...
So the May 5th agreement of 1919 makes it difficult to source surplus ww1 equipment and military equipment in general, including machine tooling for a few years. See the quote from above post regarding what certain US figures thought about this in terms of effectiveness, the original agreement was expanded, and was attempted to be expanded. Weimar Germany, Soviet Russia (the original signatory to the original was probably Kerensky's government, or possibly even one of the early white governments, but they tried to get Soviet accession to the accord), Czechs were all invited to join. I suspect that Sweden was invited as well, but it hasn't been said anywhere, Switzerland as well I believe I have read that the US State department wanted the Swiss to sign on to the arms embargo against Honduras during this period so it wouldn't surprise me. It was followed on by a 13 power agreement a few years later (after 1919) but that was even less effect, see the quote.
As to France, I'm still checking but while they were selling new model Schneider's to Japan, the only instances of 'modern' artillery sales I can find are some Hotchkiss machine guns in 20s, and those sales probably started as war time surplus. The biggest sale of modern artillery as we would think of in modern terms appears to have been Italy apparently their 76/40 (that's barrel length) were popular with the north. France appears to have been reluctant to sell directly, and part of this seems to have been pressure from Japan, though how effective that was I don't know. The Schneider-Canet seems to show up but that may have come via the Czech legion since I don't know who would have been selling them.
Of course there was also the possibility that it was just a matter of expense, because France doesn't seem to have had an objection selling aircraft in the early twenties, in competition with Great Britain. So I digress, with regards to flagrant violations of the Arms Embargo from the British perspective (that of the Foreign Office, if not necessarily John Jordan specifically) were Italy, and Japan at least in the early twenties. They weren't really happy with the United States either, but to be honest given the context that comes off as rank hypocrisy. (Am I surprised by this... no, not at all. It is however hilarious.)
[What I will probably do when we get there, is to Index a post about the May 5th Arms Embargo of 1919 based on what I know, and possibly when and with what things started to be ignored. I suspect is the reason that France didn't allow the export of Schneider artillery, along with possibly cost, but again there are ways around that, I've already mentioned the Finns for example.]
The other signatories it varies. Italy would be a potential option of sorts, but they have other problems, though they are providing arms into China to other people. Soviet Union, kind of obviously out even after the end of the Russian Civil War for reasons. Denmark, actually made an effort to stop arms traffic from their nationals. Netherlands up in the air especially after 23. France mixed bag lots of political changes at home, and economic issues, but post 23 aircraft are on the table, as are tanks. Japan limited options but they did sell to basically everybody at least in terms of small arms though Great Kanto Earthquake, and then the big stock market crash later in the decade. Belgium is an option FN sold to plenty of people but that's mostly limited to small arms. Spain originally skirted the treaty by selling pistols, and then they kind of just through pretending out the window. Aircraft, machine guns, autocannons, etc by the later half the decade. Brasil and Portugal I can't comment on, I know they agreed to the May 5th agreement at the onset, but I don't know what their role in it was, we know that Portuguese surplus made into China but yeah...
So the May 5th agreement of 1919 makes it difficult to source surplus ww1 equipment and military equipment in general, including machine tooling for a few years. See the quote from above post regarding what certain US figures thought about this in terms of effectiveness, the original agreement was expanded, and was attempted to be expanded. Weimar Germany, Soviet Russia (the original signatory to the original was probably Kerensky's government, or possibly even one of the early white governments, but they tried to get Soviet accession to the accord), Czechs were all invited to join. I suspect that Sweden was invited as well, but it hasn't been said anywhere, Switzerland as well I believe I have read that the US State department wanted the Swiss to sign on to the arms embargo against Honduras during this period so it wouldn't surprise me. It was followed on by a 13 power agreement a few years later (after 1919) but that was even less effect, see the quote.
As to France, I'm still checking but while they were selling new model Schneider's to Japan, the only instances of 'modern' artillery sales I can find are some Hotchkiss machine guns in 20s, and those sales probably started as war time surplus. The biggest sale of modern artillery as we would think of in modern terms appears to have been Italy apparently their 76/40 (that's barrel length) were popular with the north. France appears to have been reluctant to sell directly, and part of this seems to have been pressure from Japan, though how effective that was I don't know. The Schneider-Canet seems to show up but that may have come via the Czech legion since I don't know who would have been selling them.
Of course there was also the possibility that it was just a matter of expense, because France doesn't seem to have had an objection selling aircraft in the early twenties, in competition with Great Britain. So I digress, with regards to flagrant violations of the Arms Embargo from the British perspective (that of the Foreign Office, if not necessarily John Jordan specifically) were Italy, and Japan at least in the early twenties. They weren't really happy with the United States either, but to be honest given the context that comes off as rank hypocrisy. (Am I surprised by this... no, not at all. It is however hilarious.)
[What I will probably do when we get there, is to Index a post about the May 5th Arms Embargo of 1919 based on what I know, and possibly when and with what things started to be ignored. I suspect is the reason that France didn't allow the export of Schneider artillery, along with possibly cost, but again there are ways around that, I've already mentioned the Finns for example.]