Trials of the God-Harem King [Highschool DxD/Exalted] (CLOSED)

[EternitynChaos]

It's cool Alexander, we've gotten 2 really useful Charms basicly worked out, 1 chance to give Cheapass Carjack a stroke when we meet him in the future and a lot of fun ideas.

If I can get my muse running when I wake up rather then it getting sidetracked I'll see if I can get my idea for an Essence Raising Charm based loosely around Dragon Eggs and the Chrysalis Heretic Charms of the Infernal's down in enough detail to throw up... or a short about Issei pulling a certain Luner Catgirls ass out of the fire maybe, we will see ^^

Hope you do well on your exams as well, and I'm happy your putting your free time towards this quest... its the only one I'm following that I keep open... hell I've got, 4 windows open just for this quest /laugh

 

[Fellgar]

Erm, I would like to point out, that we not only have DxD, but I think there is also the whole Satsujin/Katsujin group from HSDK... if the Elder from that dosn't have 7's across the board and isn't rocking skills on par to CMA then I will be amazed

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Eh, nah. I could see 6's in the physical attributes but 7's? We have only seen minor supernatural abilities from him so far. Splitting a tree in half, running across water, etc. He could have maybe a 7 in dex but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that in strength. ... though I think I remember him flipping a tank during that base invasion... can't really remember.

How's this?See the thing in bold? It ensures that no one can go beyond their cap without raising it first with another method. This way supernatural races, who may have a higher cap compared to humans, are included.

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Might want to change terrestrial martial arts charms to simply martial arts charms with a modifier that if they are not capable of learning it then the master can not teach it to them. I just have this mental image of how a perfect instructor should be. If the perfect teacher knows something, and the student has the necessary potential, then the teacher should be able to teach the student the skill/theory/ability/etc.

Personally, I'm against non Creation (due to motonic physics) or Exalted being able to match the average Exalted master (few campaigns go beyond E5 in my experience), excepting styles. It's just lessening the stature of the Exalted. The DxD major races (Devil/Fallen/Angel) have their own existing advantages without them also gaining high-rank Exalted abilities, even if limited to MA. MA 4 + TMA is already a fairly large boost to combat outside magic and racial/House powers.

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Fuck it, I had a paragraph almost posted here that was basically nicely and extremely politely saying your wanking off to Exalted and that your basically sabotaging our efforts at charm creation because you don't want the locals to gain access to our stuff. But that just got eaten... yay. :notfunny:

 

[EternitynChaos]

Might want to change terrestrial martial arts charms to simply martial arts charms with a modifier that if they are not capable of learning it then the master can not teach it to them. I just have this mental image of how a perfect instructor should be. If the perfect teacher knows something, and the student has the necessary potential, then the teacher should be able to teach the student the skill/theory/ability/etc.

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My extension charm takes care of CMA, the first ones basicly the setup charm, while mine builds off it to give us discount CMA, and later on give Cheapass Carjack a stroke

 

[Fellgar]

My extension charm takes care of CMA, the first ones basicly the setup charm, while mine builds off it to give us discount CMA, and later on give Cheapass Carjack a stroke

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Ah, in that case I'll work on another expasion charm, be right back.

 

[Smuthunter]

Name: The Radiant Dragon

First Excellency of the Radiant Dragon

The Radiant Dragon takes pride in his supremacy above all beings. He enjoys freedom and strives to reach perfection in everything he tries.

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I'm so stealing that name. Here's my expansion on it:

First Excellency of the Radiant Dragon
The Radiant Dragon takes pride in his supremacy above all beings. He enjoys freedom and strives to reach perfection in everything he tries, yet his power is tempered and focused by his immense compassion. The Red Dragon Emperor strives for justice in his words and deeds, unleashing his most terrible wrath only in defense of himself and his allies.

By the weight of his immense charisma, the Sovereign of the Radiant Scales attracts power of all sorts to himself. Sorcerous knowledge and material wealth is irresistible to him, yet he covets beautiful maidens most highly of all. He will never fail to defend his flight* from danger, whether by terrifying their foes into retreat or purging them with talon and flame. But to those he is most deeply enamored of he shares the gift of his impossible might, that they might be safe and strong even when he is not near.

This excellency can always be used to perform actions which aid or defend positive intimacies.

*In this context, flight is a collective noun used in reference to Issei's harem, like a flock of geese or a murder of crows.

 

[Noctum]

First Excellency of the Radiant Dragon
The Radiant Dragon takes pride in his supremacy above all beings. He enjoys freedom and strives to reach perfection in everything he tries, yet his power is tempered and focused by his immense compassion. The Red Dragon Emperor strives for justice in his words and deeds, unleashing his most terrible wrath only in defense of himself and his allies.

By the weight of his immense charisma, the Sovereign of the Radiant Scales attracts power of all sorts to himself. Sorcerous knowledge and material wealth is irresistible to him, yet he covets beautiful maidens most highly of all. He will never fail to defend his flight* from danger, whether by terrifying their foes into retreat or purging them with talon and flame. But to those he is most deeply enamored of he shares the gift of his impossible might, that they might be safe and strong even when he is not near.

This excellency can always be used to perform actions which aid or defend positive intimacies.

*In this context, flight is a collective noun used in reference to Issei's harem, like a flock of geese or a murder of crows.

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Nice one. Making Devil Tiger Excellencies for characters with odd worldviews is always fun. Plus they can be quite hilarious and insightful if done well.

 

[Indrik]

Eh, nah. I could see 6's in the physical attributes but 7's? We have only seen minor supernatural abilities from him so far. Splitting a tree in half, running across water, etc. He could have maybe a 7 in dex but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have that in strength. ... though I think I remember him flipping a tank during that base invasion... can't really remember.

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This I agree with. HSDK is a little exaggerated as a shounen manga, particularly in regards to the Elder and his peers, but it tries to stick reasonably with actual martial arts.

Might want to change terrestrial martial arts charms to simply martial arts charms with a modifier that if they are not capable of learning it then the master can not teach it to them. I just have this mental image of how a perfect instructor should be. If the perfect teacher knows something, and the student has the necessary potential, then the teacher should be able to teach the student the skill/theory/ability/etc.

Fuck it, I had a paragraph almost posted here that was basically nicely and extremely politely saying your wanking off to Exalted and that your basically sabotaging our efforts at charm creation because you don't want the locals to gain access to our stuff. But that just got eaten... yay. :notfunny:

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Considering your entire argument seems to be based on your own headcanon as to a 'perfect trainer' with no reasoning or support beyond your own feelings, I'm not sure where you get off accusing me of 'wanking' Exalted (And any attempt at politeness was entirely wasted by such a declaration.) when I am arguing in support of a limitation in accordance with the canon limitations of the charm and Martial Arts. How that can be called sabotage in any reasonable manner, I can not conceive. It is more to state that you object to any view that conflicts with your own perspective on the matter.

Frankly, I think Alexander is a bit too open at times to change mechanics based on a single loud voice without evidence or support.

Yes, I don't want Exalted skills spreading far and wide in the DxD world - not only does it purposelessly dilute Issei's standing but it is an entirely unnecessary addition considering the most powerful of the main trinity of factions (the ones we can reasonably expect to face within the course of the campaign) can make continents tremble if they use too much of their power unconsciously - but that in no way weakens my criticism along the lines of mechanics, the themes of Solar Exaltation and setting balance. I find the conflict of the two settings and physics interesting, and feel that simply plugging them into each other to fill gaps on a broad level as this would imply leeches both of significance. If Alexander chooses to allow high rank dots in MA ability, I won't necessarily agree, but I can live with it and trust in the GM. Handing out CMA to any supernatural being simply because they are supernatural would be damaging to setting integrity. The races should have developed their own martial abilities and styles over millennia of existence such that they do not require those of Creation. Issei is meant to be an OCP; let him remain such.

 

[Fellgar]

Considering your entire argument seems to be based on your own headcanon as to a 'perfect trainer' with no reasoning or support beyond your own feelings, I'm not sure where you get off accusing me of 'wanking' Exalted (And any attempt at politeness was entirely wasted by such a declaration.) when I am arguing in support of a limitation in accordance with the canon limitations of the charm and Martial Arts. How that can be called sabotage in any reasonable manner, I can not conceive. It is more to state that you object to any view that conflicts with your own perspective on the matter.

Frankly, I think Alexander is a bit too open at times to change mechanics based on a single loud voice without evidence or support.

Yes, I don't want Exalted skills spreading far and wide in the DxD world - not only does it purposelessly dilute Issei's standing but it is an entirely unnecessary addition considering the most powerful of the main trinity of factions (the ones we can reasonably expect to face within the course of the campaign) can make continents tremble if they use too much of their power unconsciously - but that in no way weakens my criticism along the lines of mechanics, the themes of Solar Exaltation and setting balance. I find the conflict of the two settings and physics interesting, and feel that simply plugging them into each other to fill gaps on a broad level as this would imply leeches both of significance. If Alexander chooses to allow high rank dots in MA ability, I won't necessarily agree, but I can live with it and trust in the GM. Handing out CMA to any supernatural being simply because they are supernatural would be damaging to setting integrity. The races should have developed their own martial abilities and styles over millennia of existence such that they do not require those of Creation. Issei is meant to be an OCP; let him remain such.

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Hah, trying to twist it around on me are you? Nice try. Its your arguement that is entirely based off of your opinion that, "They can not be better then or equal to exalted characters". Trying to claim that I'm suddenly wanking when I explain I can't see how a perfect teacher could fail to teach is priceless. Really. "Perfect" necessitates a certain level of ability. AKA all of it, meaning the perfect teacher should be able to teach up to his own ability, anything less means by necessity that its no longer the perfect teacher. (Note I say teacher not trainer because I have an image of personal trainers that are less then the people they train so I say teacher because I've been indoctrinated into believing they simply pass on knowledge they themselves have, and ability they themselves have had, so please refer to in your arguements from this point on like that, its mildly distracting. ) Its a simple and straightforward concept. One that only you seem to be the only one to disagree with here.

Your arguement was admitted by yourself to be based entirely off of your own percieved views on the the media available here. That Exalted was automatically better then DxD. Which further highlights how funny your third sentence is given your own "position". Your "yelling" caused him to reconsider and almost irreparably harm all our future allies potential growth. Being only able to train them up to 4 in a skill? Really?

And then here you go trying to claim your supporting the theme of a solar exaltation. Being only able to teach a student up to rank 4 rather then to their maximum potential? Seriously? How and in what way does that make sense? And setting balance? This reality is fundamentally different then "creation" I wouldn't be all that suprised to come across a ton of people with essence 6 equivalent and above that are purely human because they don't have to deal with "creations" parceled out and highly limited amound of soul stuff to go around. Its like Nasu in that respect from what I can tell. There is only so much magic to go around so the more with access makes it lesser and lesser. (I am quite aware there are quite a few exceptions to what I am talking about I am more refering to generalities here. Like those dragon emperor species, they can only have so many at a time. Its a theme in exalted I have noticed, limited resources.)

I'm not saying plug in one to the other. I'm advocating that Issei smash the current ranks up a bit by using a charm to do what is considered impossible. 1 more rank/dot in martial arts isn't going to do much for any allies with less then a 6 "essence" equivalent. Issei is an OCP, you and I both agree on this fact but you seem to want to limit how much of an OCP he is by degrading his capabilities just to keep the OCP from spreading out and effecting change.

 

[Smuthunter]

This I agree with. HSDK is a little exaggerated as a shounen manga, particularly in regards to the Elder and his peers, but it tries to stick reasonably with actual martial arts.
Considering your entire argument seems to be based on your own headcanon as to a 'perfect trainer' with no reasoning or support beyond your own feelings

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How's this for reasoning: perfect in the context of Exalted means "cannot be surpassed." A person who can only train another person up to a skill level that is not their maximum cannot be considered perfect, unless there is a second unprinted charm that upgrades the effect to allow the complete unlocking of that person's potential.

Yes, I don't want Exalted skills spreading far and wide in the DxD world - not only does it purposelessly dilute Issei's standing but it is an entirely unnecessary addition considering the most powerful of the main trinity of factions (the ones we can reasonably expect to face within the course of the campaign) can make continents tremble if they use too much of their power unconsciously - but that in no way weakens my criticism along the lines of mechanics, the themes of Solar Exaltation and setting balance.

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I support being able to teach people to use Celestial Martial Arts for the simple reason that I don't want our sidekicks to be completely useless in our major fights the way the Occult Club often is in canon. We are already breaking the rules wide open by having dragon power in addition to Solar Essence at our disposal, so it's a little late to be complaining about our charms being unbalanced.

Besides which, I don't think the idea is for people to spread CMAs "far and wide." Nobody who isn't in our harem is currently worth the effort for us to go through in training them. We remain an OCP simply by virtue of us being the only one who can teach these arts that nobody else has ever seen before.

 

[Prince Charon]

[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.
-- [X] Ask Eiko for a report on what sorts of crimes she saw the Snakes planning or committing. If they are too much trouble then we should probably just get rid of both of them.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life

 

[Fellgar]

I've been working on trying to come up with a series of expansion charms but I've only got generalities at the moment.

Basically 1: This charm removes the previous limit of 4 dots in an ability or teachers ability level which ever is lower to be the trainee's potential limit or the teachers skill level. Prerequisite: The previous charm.

2: This charm adds all of the favored abilities of the teacher onto what can be taught. At Essence 6 it includes all abilities of the teacher can be taught to the student. Prerequisite: The first expansion charm

3. Eternitychaoses expansion charm same prerequisite.

4. The exalted can teach the student everything that the teacher knows themselves up to the students essence level or 5 whichever is higher. This includes all abilities, the attributes, all martial arts charms. Prerequisites: All previous expansion charms and essence 7.

 

[Alexander]

I'm back. Wow, you took my words seriously, I'm so touched :'(

If I can get my muse running when I wake up rather then it getting sidetracked I'll see if I can get my idea for an Essence Raising Charm based loosely around Dragon Eggs and the Chrysalis Heretic Charms of the Infernal's down in enough detail to throw up... or a short about Issei pulling a certain Luner Catgirls ass out of the fire maybe, we will see ^^

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Where I can find those Charms? Luner Catgirls?

Also, does anyone know where I can find a complete description of Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger? I can't find it. Is it in some book? Also, I heard about an Essence 6 Infernal Charm that make you immortal. Is that a thing?

I'm so stealing that name. Here's my expansion on it:

First Excellency of the Radiant Dragon
The Radiant Dragon takes pride in his supremacy above all beings. He enjoys freedom and strives to reach perfection in everything he tries, yet his power is tempered and focused by his immense compassion. The Red Dragon Emperor strives for justice in his words and deeds, unleashing his most terrible wrath only in defense of himself and his allies.

By the weight of his immense charisma, the Sovereign of the Radiant Scales attracts power of all sorts to himself. Sorcerous knowledge and material wealth is irresistible to him, yet he covets beautiful maidens most highly of all. He will never fail to defend his flight* from danger, whether by terrifying their foes into retreat or purging them with talon and flame. But to those he is most deeply enamored of he shares the gift of his impossible might, that they might be safe and strong even when he is not near.

This excellency can always be used to perform actions which aid or defend positive intimacies.

*In this context, flight is a collective noun used in reference to Issei's harem, like a flock of geese or a murder of crows.

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Smuthunter, you are an incredible genius ! But if I can say, the "used to perform actions which aid or defend positive intimacies" part, isn't a bit limiting? Compared to other Yozi anyway. Maybe we can add something about aiding the character when he tries to show his superiority in a task if it is beneficial to all those involved?

Frankly, I think Alexander is a bit too open at times to change mechanics based on a single loud voice without evidence or support.

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I do? Can you show me an example?

 

[EternitynChaos]

All the Heretic charms can be found in the Broken Winged Crane, as for the Luner catgirl, I was talking about Anja Silverclaws *write up found in the Book of Exalts* native of Thornes, who's Spirit Animal is a house cat ^^; she's awesome, and if it wasn't for the fact that she's already got a past life with a Solar Mate other then Bright, I'd find her an amusing match for Issei, though I guess considering the Trainwreck that relationship was Luna may have steped in /shrug.

If you want I can do some copy pasta, if there is a 2ed Exalted book out that I don't have a copy of It's news to me ^^;

As for the Excellency, there are usually more then a few things that Yozi have that let you ping the excellency, Malfeas for examples like this

Characters may apply this Charm to any actions in
which they choose the ostentatious or overkill approach over
merely adequate solutions. Any intentional subtlety or display
of restraint makes this Excellency inapplicable, including
adding less than half the maximum possible dice bonus to
a roll (rounded down). Note that force does not necessarily
equate to violence. A forceful seduction in which an Infernal
confidently orders a prospective paramour to accompany him
rather than cajoling or flattering her can benefit from this
Charm just as readily as a stomp delivered to a prone enemy's
face. Strangely, the power of Malfeas may also enhance any
Performance action to dance or create music. These are the
secret pleasures of the Demon City that embarrass Ligier.

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and THotDT

TRIUMPHANT HOWL OF THE DEVIL-TIGER
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 6; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Any First (Yozi) Excellency,
any Sorcerous Initiation of (Yozi), any Shintai
Charm
Proving that he is more than merely a gestalt
of insane, defeated Primordials, the Infernal sweeps
together the broken shards of enlightenment from
several Reclamation conspirators and forges them
into a new legend all his own. The shinma shudder
as a new titan is born: The Infernal is immortal,
and needs no longer fear death from age. In declaring
his own legend, he may never learn (Yozi)
Cosmic Principle (see The Return of the Scarlet
Empress, p. 209).
This Charm conveys one final benefit: The Infernal's
player and Storyteller may work together to
design a personal analog to First (Yozi) Excellency
suited to the personality, themes and obsessions of
the character, using the Excellencies of the Yozis
as a guideline, as well as a personalized suite of the
General Charms found in The Manual of Exalted
Power—The Infernals and this book, which are all
purchased as Favored Charms.
This Charm's prerequisites must come from at
least two different Yozis. Upon learning this Charm,
the Infernal may choose to cannibalize any General
Yozi Charms he already knows, converting them into
experience which he may spend to instantly replace
them with equivalents created through Triumphant
Howl of the Devil-Tiger. Charms requiring lost
Excellencies as prerequisites (save for this Charm)
are also converted into experience.

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[Alexander]

All the Heretic charms can be found in the Broken Winged Crane, as for the Luner catgirl, I was talking about Anja Silverclaws *write up found in the Book of Exalts* native of Thornes, who's Spirit Animal is a house cat ^^; she's awesome, and if it wasn't for the fact that she's already got a past life with a Solar Mate other then Bright, I'd find her an amusing match for Issei, though I guess considering the Trainwreck that relationship was Luna may have steped in /shrug.

If you want I can do some copy pasta, if there is a 2ed Exalted book out that I don't have a copy of It's news to me ^^;

As for the Excellency, there are usually more then a few things that Yozi have that let you ping the excellency, Malfeas for examples like this

and THotDT

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Thanks. If you're worried about different Exalted Mates, I assure you many care not for such things. And considering Ingosh Silverclaws' past...yeah, Anja may be better with Issei. I encourage you to write it.

I found Broken Winged Crane. It inspired me. Devil-Tiger is not possible for Issei.

Because he can be better.

TRIUMPHANT ROAR OF THE COSMIC DRAGON
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 6;
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Power (Infinite) of Ophis, Power (Dream) of Great Red

Exaltations are and will always be Autochthon's greatest work, perfect and indestructible in a way that even the Primordials weren't. Yet even he could have not have foreseen how his creations would have reacted to a power even more alien than the Raksha. Alas, to allow one to surpass his limits is what an Exaltation does: and by an ironic joke, Hyodo Issei acquired limits he was never meant to hold.

After internalizing the power of Great Red, the Exaltation dreams of his creator's past: how Primordial were born unto Shinma, and how Creation was made. After internalizing the power of Ophis, by infinite power those dreams are brought to reality. A new legend is born where the Shinma don't reach, yet the Shinma will always welcome the new Titan as their long lost son.

The Exalt is immortal and needs no longer fear death from age. The Exalt's player and Storyteller may work together to design a personal analog to First (Yozi) Excellency suited to the personality, themes and obsessions of the character, using the Excellencies of the Yozis as a guideline, as well as a personalized suite of the General Charms found in The Manual of Exalted Power—The Infernals and Broken Winged Crane, which are all purchased as Favored Charms.

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What do you think?

 

[kinglugia]

I found something interesting.
http://www.roleplay.zone/lore5/charm_tree/show/1.html

 

[EternitynChaos]

Heheheheheh, nice, very nice. I wouldn't complain if that came to pass ^^ doing some editing for English grammar ^^

TRIUMPHANT ROAR OF THE COSMIC DRAGON
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 6;
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Power (Infinite) of Ophis, Power (Dream) of Great Red


Exaltations are and will be Autochthon's greatest work, perfect and indestructible in a way that even the Primordials weren't. Yet even he could not have foreseen how his creations would have reacted to a power even more alien than the Raksha. Alas, to allow one to surpass his limits is what an Exaltation does: and by an ironic joke, Hyodo Issei acquired limits he was never meant to hold.


After internalizing the power of Great Red, the Exaltation dreams of his creator's past: how Primordial were born unto Shinma, and how Creation was made. After internalizing the power of Ophis, by infinite power those dreams are brought to reality. A new legend is born where the Shinma doesn't reach, and yet the Shinma will always welcome the new Titan as their long lost son.


The Exalt is immortal and needs no longer fear death from age. The Exalt's player and Storyteller may work together to design a personal analog to First (Yozi) Excellency suited to the personality, themes and obsessions of the character, using the Excellencies of the Yozis as a guideline, as well as a personalized suite of the General Charms found in The Manual of Exalted Power—The Infernals and Broken Winged Crane, which are all
purchased as Favored Charms.

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changes marked in Red

As a side note, something that probably will get Bright even more twitchy, Ddraig = Green Energy, Albion = White Energy... Ligier = Green, Theion's former other Feitch soul = White... the parallels are a little amusing

As for Anja, I will give it my best shot, /laugh don't expect anything quickly however but I will try to get something for you sooner rather then later ^^;

 

[Alexander]

I found something interesting.
http://www.roleplay.zone/lore5/charm_tree/show/1.html

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Ooooh, nice!

Heheheheheh, nice, very nice. I wouldn't complain if that came to pass ^^ doing some editing for English grammar ^^
changes marked in Red

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Thanks.

The premise here is that Issei, instead of dying from Samael's curse and having a new body created from Great Red's flesh and Ophis' power, absorb power from both: the concepts they embody react to the traces of Primordial Essence left in an Exaltation by Autochthon and induces a change in Issei, transforming into something that, while different, try to imitate the way Primordial works.

I call it Cosmic Dragon. The Living Concept of "Supremacy".

Kinda like what the Unconquered Sun would be like if he was a Primordial. The twice-removed cousin of the Primordials.

 

[codeRR]

I would like to see that anja snip!

That charm...i should read the crane book

 

[Indrik]

*snip*

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I just took note of your name. I knew I recognized that out-of-context quoting, strawman, and ad hominem riddled argument style. Fellgar, we meet again.

"They can not be better then or equal to exalted characters".

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I went back over my posts on the matter to make sure, but nowhere have I ever directly said this (this would be one of those out-of-context quotes and rephrasings that litter your responses). What I did say was that they should not be equal to an Exalted expert with the obvious contextual implication of 'in Exalted skills'. That is in no way a comment on pure power or alternative abilities. My point, which you seem to have again entirely missed, is that they shouldn't necessarily have the same skills as Exalted given the existence of DxD equivalents. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that not a single Angel/Fallen/Devil has created their own magical martial styles, which should naturally be preferred over those from Creation. If they must be represented through the styles of Exalted for mechanical simplicity, unfortunate but understandable, yet they should be called something different to keep the illusion of DxD/Exalted distinction. Directly porting advanced and rare Exalted skills in name and function is just too transparent to maintain Issei's essential strangeness to DxD.

Your arguement was admitted by yourself to be based entirely off of your own percieved views on the the media available here. That Exalted was automatically better then DxD. Which further highlights how funny your third sentence is given your own "position". Your "yelling" caused him to reconsider and almost irreparably harm all our future allies potential growth. Being only able to train them up to 4 in a skill? Really?

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Quotes should represent direct and exact extractions from the opposing argument. Using it for replacement words that aggrandize your own position is just dishonest and poor debate. Also, I have previously provided my opinion in addition to factual statements (see below). The former does not obviate or weaken the latter.

Beyond that, you are again putting words in my mouth. I have repeatedly said that DxD is in many ways directly stronger than a young Exalted. You will not find a statement to the contrary, except in your own interpretation. What I have said is that they should not have the same strengths, which is an entirely different thing.

As far as the critique on Alexander's willingness to alter things, my point was that you presented no evidence for your position beyond 'it breaks my SOD' and conflating Solar abilities across the range of their Essence. Meanwhile, I quoted the inspiring charm and pointed out its own language. Given the proposed charm combined two canon charms, I felt it fitting to maintain their limitations as well. Here it is again in case you missed or ignored it:

Tiger Warrior Training Technique
Cost: 10m, 2wp; Mins: War 4, Essence 3; Type: Simple (Dramatic Action)
Keywords: Obvious, Touch, Training
Duration: One week
Prerequisite Charms: Heroism-Encouraging Presence
Required for Charms: Legendary Warrior Curriculum

Under the banner of the Solar Exalted, even bandits and peasants become deadly warriors. This Charm involves training a military unit. This Charm requires five or more hours of effort in any given week to bear fruit. This Charm increases the Drill of a unit by one for each week of training, to a maximum of Drill 5. In each week of training, the trainer picks one trait to train: Valor, Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Archery, Dodge, Martial Arts or Melee. This Charm increases that trait for each member of the unit by one dot, to a maximum of 4. The Solar can train with the unit or as a solo unit, increasing her own traits. She cannot increase others' traits past her own.

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I will point out the relevant sections: "This Charm increases that trait for each member of the unit by one dot, to a maximum of 4...She cannot increase other's traits past her own."

"Perfect" necessitates a certain level of ability. AKA all of it, meaning the perfect teacher should be able to teach up to his own ability, anything less means by necessity that its no longer the perfect teacher. (Note I say teacher not trainer because I have an image of personal trainers that are less then the people they train so I say teacher because I've been indoctrinated into believing they simply pass on knowledge they themselves have, and ability they themselves have had, so please refer to in your arguements from this point on like that, its mildly distracting. ) Its a simple and straightforward concept. One that only you seem to be the only one to disagree with here.

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Solars reach for perfection but they are not intrinsically so, nor should their charms be. I was commenting on an overpowered charm while your argument seems to depend upon wishing to make our allies as strong as possible in Exalted techniques. You may not see the distinction there, but it surely exists and therefore your continued accusation of 'wanking' (for some reason) runs entirely counter to my point. Moreover, where the Solar's powers act upon others, the targets also become a factor in efficacy of the result. That should not be ignored.

And then here you go trying to claim your supporting the theme of a solar exaltation. Being only able to teach a student up to rank 4 rather then to their maximum potential? Seriously? How and in what way does that make sense?

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Let me repeat this for you: canon charm. Exalted should not be capable of any feat at low to medium Essence (nor should a composite of two charms escape the limitations of their inspiration for a single Essence dot higher requirement), but they should be better skill-wise in their areas of focus than most of similar experience.

And setting balance? This reality is fundamentally different then "creation" I wouldn't be all that suprised to come across a ton of people with essence 6 equivalent and above that are purely human because they don't have to deal with "creations" parceled out and highly limited amound of soul stuff to go around. Its like Nasu in that respect from what I can tell. There is only so much magic to go around so the more with access makes it lesser and lesser. (I am quite aware there are quite a few exceptions to what I am talking about I am more refering to generalities here. Like those dragon emperor species, they can only have so many at a time. Its a theme in exalted I have noticed, limited resources.)

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Which was in fact my point exactly. DxD has a far wider range of abilties, races, and powers than Exalted. They function metaphysically differently and while they may be equal or superior in skill and power they should not often be equal in means or method. Due to the Colleges, abilities in Exalted terms and those of DxD are entirely separate and non-transferable things. A martial arts expert in DxD may know a few styles yet learns them individually, while an Exalted expert's increased skill applies to the full breadth of martial ability (excepting magical styles). A DxD student of lore must learn them all separately, while a student of the College of Lore learns them all holistically. It is a rather wide conceptual divide. DxD should have its own methods, it should't need to latch onto those of Exalted and then display equal facility with them as an essential native of Creation.

Due to limitations of mechanics, this is a difficult thing to represent and so I have no issue with high MA ability dots for long-lived and experienced DxD characters - yes, I have slightly amended my views on this one point, but do not take it as capitulation. It is my interpretation though that metaphysical differences would mean CMA (not their DxD power equivalents, but the actual Exalted styles themselves) would be beyond DxD natives learning easily in the same way that Solars can typically not learn SMA.

This is why I support the extension charm.

I'm not saying plug in one to the other. I'm advocating that Issei smash the current ranks up a bit by using a charm to do what is considered impossible. 1 more rank/dot in martial arts isn't going to do much for any allies with less then a 6 "essence" equivalent. Issei is an OCP, you and I both agree on this fact but you seem to want to limit how much of an OCP he is by degrading his capabilities just to keep the OCP from spreading out and effecting change.

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That's a false equivalence. An OCP remains so precisely as long as his abilities remain unpredictable and inexplicable. Spreading the skills, if anything, degrades the OCP factor. And I still fail to see how making any student regardless of origin literally equal to a specifically created god-killing weapon of excellence in one of their specialties is reasonable. It does not degrade his abilities, merely indicate that his students do not have the same sort of potential as a Solar at this juncture. Recall that Issei is still incredibly young for a Solar, and his abilities should likewise be limited for the moment. Also again, this charm is a composite of two canon charms and should maintain their features, both positive and negative. To head off another track, I have absolutely no objection to our followers/companions being powerful and combat relevant or to Issei teaching them. I do object on metaphysical, mechanical, and narrative grounds to them becoming martial arts copies of Issei with minor differences rather than developing their own niches or exploring DxD abilities in favor of Exalted forms.

I won't respond further as experience on SB has shown me the futility of debate with you, but I wanted to clarify my position before you attempt to further twist it to your own ends.

TRIUMPHANT ROAR OF THE COSMIC DRAGON
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 6;
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Heretical
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Power (Infinite) of Ophis, Power (Dream) of Great Red

Exaltations are and will always be Autochthon's greatest work, perfect and indestructible in a way that even the Primordials weren't. Yet even he could have not have foreseen how his creations would have reacted to a power even more alien than the Raksha. Alas, to allow one to surpass his limits is what an Exaltation does: and by an ironic joke, Hyodo Issei acquired limits he was never meant to hold.

After internalizing the power of Great Red, the Exaltation dreams of his creator's past: how Primordial were born unto Shinma, and how Creation was made. After internalizing the power of Ophis, by infinite power those dreams are brought to reality. A new legend is born where the Shinma doesn't reach, and yet the Shinma will always welcome the new Titan as their long lost son.

The Exalt is immortal and needs no longer fear death from age. The Exalt's player and Storyteller may work together to design a personal analog to First (Yozi) Excellency suited to the personality, themes and obsessions of the character, using the Excellencies of the Yozis as a guideline, as well as a personalized suite of the General Charms found in The Manual of Exalted Power—The Infernals and Broken Winged Crane, which are all purchased as Favored Charms.

What do you think?

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Very nice, Alexander. I quite like the themes and imagery.

 

[noahgab1133]

Thanks. If you're worried about different Exalted Mates, I assure you many care not for such things. And considering Ingosh Silverclaws' past...yeah, Anja may be better with Issei. I encourage you to write it.

I found Broken Winged Crane. It inspired me. Devil-Tiger is not possible for Issei.

Because he can be better.
What do you think?

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I imagine the hilarity of it when Supremacy embodied descends into the underworld when chaos brigade is unleashes those huge monsters and simply smites them out of existence while being overcharged on the power of ophis and great red.

 

[EternitynChaos]

While it is very true that Tiger Warrior can't train above 4, there are charms that can, the Crane Style training charm is one of them for example, and that does in minutes what this one takes a week to do, I myself would split the difference as it were, make training to 5+ something for higher essence upgrades, however, Alexanders already put "It allows training up to the Solar's own rank in that area (but not beyond the natural cap of the target)" which is fine for an Essence 4 charm, considering Tiger Warrior is an Essence 3 Charm, and the Crane Style Charm is Essence 2.

In the end I think this is a personal disagreement, and I can see both sides of it, but I don't think it that is going to harm the story by its inclusion, which is I imagine one of the reasons for TW having the cap it does, game balance and all that.

Ymmv as always of course

 

[Alexander]

I imagine the hilarity of it when Supremacy embodied descends into the underworld when chaos brigade is unleashes those huge monsters and simply smites them out of existence while being overcharged on the power of ophis and great red.

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True, true 8)

Indrik, Fellgar: I have nothing to say about your debate since you kept it mostly polite, only that you continue to do so.

 

[Smuthunter]

Smuthunter, you are an incredible genius ! But if I can say, the "used to perform actions which aid or defend positive intimacies" part, isn't a bit limiting? Compared to other Yozi anyway. Maybe we can add something about aiding the character when he tries to show his superiority in a task if it is beneficial to all those involved?

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It's really only limited in comparison to Kimbery, who has four or five paragraphs worth of themes as opposed to the two or three that the main five all get, presumably due to word count limits.

Remember, the First Yozi Excellency describes the themes of the primordial. As long as you're acting in a manner described in those themes the excellency can be applied to any action. So it could be Presence rolls for seduction of a beautiful maiden, or a Bureaucracy roll to acquire material wealth. It could be a martial arts roll using our talons or an archery roll for our flames. The last line describes a special condition that overrides the others -- as long as we're defending or enhancing our intimacies, we can always use this excellency even when we're not acting in accordance with the other themes. If anything it might be a little too broad; there's no indication of when it can't be used, such as Malfeas's inability to be subtle.

 

[nightblade]

We would be able to act our side our themes unlike the Yozi Alex.

 

[EternitynChaos]

Yep Yep, unlike Devil-Tigers, We have Solar Excellency's still, and don't loose any Excellency's when we Howl/Roar

 

[Alexander]

It's really only limited in comparison to Kimbery, who has four or five paragraphs worth of themes as opposed to the two or three that the main five all get, presumably due to word count limits.

Remember, the First Yozi Excellency describes the themes of the primordial. As long as you're acting in a manner described in those themes the excellency can be applied to any action. So it could be Presence rolls for seduction of a beautiful maiden, or a Bureaucracy roll to acquire material wealth. It could be a martial arts roll using our talons or an archery roll for our flames. The last line describes a special condition that overrides the others -- as long as we're defending or enhancing our intimacies, we can always use this excellency even when we're not acting in accordance with the other themes. If anything it might be a little too broad; there's no indication of when it can't be used, such as Malfeas's inability to be subtle.

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Oh, I see.

Uhm, let's see: one limitation could be that the action to aid or defend an Intimacy (better to include Motivation too) must not contradict the other themes; another could be that the character can't use the Excellency if the action is in opposition to Compassion, even if he has the Virtue lower than 3; finally, another possible limitation is that the character can't use the Excellency on actions he doesn't find right, even if they are logical.

Yep Yep, unlike Devil-Tigers, We have Solar Excellency's still, and don't loose any Excellency's when we Howl/Roar

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This is because The Radiant Dragon's purview resonates (of course) with the Unconquered Sun. This is the only exception however.

Anyway, vote count? So that I can start writing.

 

[megrisvernin]

Oh, I see.

Uhm, let's see: one limitation could be that the action to aid or defend an Intimacy (better to include Motivation too) must not contradict the other themes; another could be that the character can't use the Excellency if the action is in opposition to Compassion, even if he has the Virtue lower than 3; finally, another possible limitation is that the character can't use the Excellency on actions he doesn't find right, even if they are logical.This is because The Radiant Dragon's purview resonates (of course) with the Unconquered Sun. This is the only exception however.

Anyway, vote count? So that I can start writing.

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Raw Vote Count.

[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.
-- [X] Ask Eiko for a report on what sorts of crimes she saw the Snakes planning or committing. If they are too much trouble then we should probably just get rid of both of them.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life
-EternitynChaos, -Indrik, Smuthunter, megrisvernin, Fellgar, noahgab1133, Walkir, DefectiveHumanModel, Eler0, The Slumbering Crocodile, ZipLopz, Diller, Disminded, Noctum, Deathwings, Prince Charon

[X] wait until the day of the fight and observe it. We are curious about The Girl with the Eyes of a Samurai and the boy with darkness inside him.
-Silversun17

[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life
-Malcolmo

[X]Plan chaos

[X] Talk things over with the girls. Admit you kind of want to show up and challenge both sides at the appointed time. Kind of standing in the middle and tell them both to bring it.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life
-Odysseus2099

[X] Talk things over with the girls. Admit you kind of want to show up and challenge both sides at the appointed time. Kind of standing in the middle and tell them both to bring it.

Because conferring with his Harem and being grandstanding are perfectly in character with Solar!Issei.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life
-Unelemental

Winning Vote
[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.
-- [X] Ask Eiko for a report on what sorts of crimes she saw the Snakes planning or committing. If they are too much trouble then we should probably just get rid of both of them.

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life

 

[EternitynChaos]

[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.
-- [X] Ask Eiko for a report on what sorts of crimes she saw the Snakes planning or committing. If they are too much trouble then we should probably just get rid of both of them.

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EternitynChaos, Indrik, Smuthunter, megrisvernin, CodeRR, noahgab1133, Walkir, DefectiveHumanModel, Eler0, The Slumbering Crocodile, ZipLopz, Diller, Disminded, Deathwings, Prince Charon

[X] Talk things over with the girls. If Ragnarok poses a greater threat than Snake, it may be prudent to investigate Snake and see if they would make better allies than enemies. If so, we should work with them to keep Ragnarok out of the city. And if our massive Solar Charisma manages to net us a bunch of followers, so much the better.

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Malcolmo,

[X] Talk things over with the girls. Admit you kind of want to show up and challenge both sides at the appointed time. Kind of standing in the middle and tell them both to bring it.
- [X] Ask Eiko for a report on what sorts of crimes she saw the Snakes planning or committing. If they are too much trouble then we should probably just get rid of both of them.

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Felgar, Noctum, Mu-Sensei, Odysseus2099, Unelemental

[X] Training Plan
-Raise Stamina to 4 -13xp (19xp left)
-Raise Strength to 3 -6xp (13xp left)
-Raise Dexterity to 4 -7xp (6xp left)
-Raise Martial Arts to 5 -4xp (2xp left)
-Deadly Dragoon Warrior
-Infinite Factory of Life

Click to shrink...

EternitynChaos, Indrik, Smuthunter, Malcolmo, megrisvernin, CodeRR, Felgar, noahgab1133, Walkir, DefectiveHumanModel, Eler0, The Slumbering Crocodile, ZipLopz, Diller, Disminded, Noctum, Mu-Sensei, Odysseus2099, Unelemental, Deathwings, Prince Charon

 

[megrisvernin]

EternitynChaos, Indrik, Smuthunter, megrisvernin, CodeRR, noahgab1133, Walkir, DefectiveHumanModel, Eler0, The Slumbering Crocodile, ZipLopz, Diller, Disminded, Deathwings, Prince Charon
Malcolmo,
Felgar, Noctum, Mu-Sensei, Odysseus2099, Unelemental
EternitynChaos, Indrik, Smuthunter, Malcolmo, megrisvernin, CodeRR, Felgar, noahgab1133, Walkir, DefectiveHumanModel, Eler0, The Slumbering Crocodile, ZipLopz, Diller, Disminded, Noctum, Mu-Sensei, Odysseus2099, Unelemental, Deathwings, Prince Charon

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Thanks. Hope you didn't duplicate my above work.

 

[EternitynChaos]

Heh, I'd just gotten done when I got the email alert for your post /laugh

But better 2 people do the work then no one does it right.